Well, on the bright side...

[skinsarethebest]

... thanks to some absolutely mindboggling decision making by the front office with the #9 pick.... WTF?!!!!!!!!!!

... and if we don't pick up Matt Jones with #25...


I will go into the 2005 season with absolutely ZERO expectations of anything resembling a competitive football team, thanks to a complete lack of offense

And actually, that's a GOOD THING -- for EVERY football season these past few years, I actually get hyped up into believing we will take the NFL by storm and blow some sh*t up, the way we did in the 1991-1992 season

now, I can safely say that I am in the unusual position of having no delusions of grandeur, no misplaced expecations of this team being dominant, at least as far as offense is concerned

and I don't mean this in a bad way... seriously let me be clear that I love this team no less and will root for it no less fervently

the only difference is that going into the season, I would be the last person to think we'd be a "lock" to make the playoffs, or even reach 8-8 -- which represents a stark contrast to my mindset, and probably the mindset of most, for every offseason from 2000 and on

... which perhaps is the way it should be... after all, i doubt NE thought they were going to go far the year before their 1st Super Bowl win ... ditto for Carolina two years ago

... and which will certainly make everything all the more sweeter if we actually do find a way to click and become competititve again

in other words, from this low point (#9 pick in this year's draft), things can only get better -- every win this year will be a pleasant surprise to me, something which I won't expect and for which I will genuinely be grateful, once and when it happens -- kind of an odd way to appreciate football, but I have the F.O. to thank for that

[chow184]

you have problems

they are putting the pieces in place for an outstanding defense for the ages

[Om]

I take it you don't think much of Joe Gibbs' ability to field an NFL offense.

Due respect, but to me that says more about you than it does him.

[wwninja420]

We picked up a good cornerback which was a great need. Mike Williams would have filled a void also, ut cornerback was more pressing. esp. with the run support!

[Art]

Are half the members of this such total morons that they consider taking a very solid corner at a clear position of need as mindboggling? Rogers is a smart, easy, clear, safe pick at a position we had to have. He's a solid player who provides some future at the position, mitigates the loss of Smoot, lowers the age of the defense, increases team speed and all the rest.

People have to stop falling in love with individual players and at least show some MILD recognition of smart, safe, good picks when they are made, even if they prefer other players.

[skinsarethebest]

all valid criticisms of my post, and also of course, my post will be tempered based on what we do with #25

but my point is simple, and I'm not trying to convert anybody, just express a point of view, which is...

If we add NO ONE to our offense today, our offense stands a very good chance of stagnating

hence, like I said, I will have NO expectations of an offense any different than what we experienced last year -- if you guys are right, i'd be happy to say I was mistaken

but only time will tell

[skinsarethebest]

Originally posted by chow184


they are putting the pieces in place for an outstanding defense for the ages


of course... but like you said, a DEFENSE for the ages.

with no offense

[laurent]

As much as I like Mike Williams, he alone wouldn't have made this offense any better than what it was last year.

The strength of this team right now is the defense and as long as the defense is healthy and continues to be solid to good we're going to be in a position to win games.

With Rogers on board I am much more inclined to believe that our offense will improve simply based on continuity and getting players back and that our defense will keep us in games.

Guys forget that we probably would have had a playoff team if we had just ranked in the among the top 20 teams on offense.

We don't need a major overhaul we just need to execute better and play to our strengths.

[SouthernCali Skins]

wE nEEDED ROGERS

ONE PLAYER CANT mAKE US GOOD... ESPECIALLY mIKE...

[Art]

Our offense is better today than it was at any point last year. Moss and Patten upgrade the athleticism and speed we have available to us, as well as providing versatility. Jansen's return with Rabach's addition solidify the offensive line. If Erasamus James falls to us at No. 25, I hope we stick with defense. I also won't mind taking Jones, though I'm less excited with some other receiver options.

But, right now we have SIX receivers on the roster who all deserve a shot at playing. Moss, Patten, Gardner, McCants, Thrash, Jacobs and Brown. We do NOT need a receiver this moment. We've got all the receivers we can use.

If we ADD a rookie of ANY sort, it's unlikely that rookie will be better at receiver than an experienced vet of some skill would be next year. You need to think a little.

[Om]

Disagree, srtb.

The offense, as it stands at this moment, benefits from an OL featuring a year of continuity in a new system and under Bugel, the return of Jansen, the addition of Casey Rabach, a QB with a year in the system who closed the year strong last season, a potential Pro Bowl RB with a year in the system, a WR corps perhaps (at the moment anyway) lacking in star quality, but featuring good-to-very-good potential in the combination of Moss, Jacobs, Patten, McCants, Gardner and some likely new faces either from later in the draft of via trade later in the offseason.

It also benefits from the addition of the coach from Jax (whose name escapes me at the moment in all the madness) whose specialty is the modern passing game ... and, most importantly of all ... a HOF Head Coach with a year back in the league AND now familiar with his own team under his belt.

Don't overestimate the potential impact of adding one rookie WR.

[skinsarethebest]

it's just the underlying philosophy that troubles me

to NOT take a potential playmaker like Mike Williams seems to be an indication that the F.O. believes we only need to "tinker" with our offense rather than radically reshape it

I'd say that that would work for our DEFENSE, but not our OFFENSE

and regarding Gibbs, yes, I believe in theory he CAN field a great NFL offense, but only if he's willing to really try to "reinvent" himself more than he's done in the past -- unfortunately, I don't think he can really get the offense to produce with only minor tweaks and adjustments, and he himself may be reluctant to change his set ways -- and the end result, believe it or not, is not always pretty -- e.g., his resistance to benching Brunell comes to mind -- a decision to forego Mike Williams strikes me as coming from the same sort of conservatism

[Tarhog]

I hear the PSP is great fun.

Get back to that mofo please.

[stevenaa]

"People have to stop falling in love with individual players and at least show some MILD recognition of smart, safe, good picks when they are made, even if they prefer other players."

Don't hold your breath, Art, or you'll blow the head off of your JG Avatar!!

[skinsarethebest]

Originally posted by Tarhog
I hear the PSP is great fun.

Get back to that mofo please.

if we don't draft a WR or TE, care to wager on how our offense would do?

step up to the plate if you're game

i predict we'd have less total yards on offense this year than last year, if we don't add one to the above positions in this offseason

[Tarhog]

Originally posted by skinsarethebest


if we don't draft a WR or TE, care to wager on how our offense would do?

step up to the plate if you're game

i predict we'd have less total yards on offense this year than last year, if we don't add one to the above positions in this offseason

Predict all you want. The bad thing for you is we don't throw any posts away. Sometimes, eating crow can constitute a very large mouthful.

You started the thread - I find what you're saying ridiculous.

We needed depth a young cornerback. We got an outstanding one. Its that simple. Might we have other needs? Sure. But we can only fill them one pick at a time. You're ridiculously overstating your case.

[SouthernCali Skins]

Originally posted by skinsarethebest


if we don't draft a WR or TE, care to wager on how our offense would do?

step up to the plate if you're game

i predict we'd have less total yards on offense this year than last year, if we don't add one to the above positions in this offseason

STOP YOUR F'N NEGATIVITY BOY

anyways wE WILL SUCCEED BY CHANGING THE OFFENSE A BIT TO SUIT PORTIS AND RAmSEY

I LIVE ACROSS FROm USC... IVE SEEN mIKE, FORGET ABOUT mIKE


BTW... mY CAPS LOCK IS SCREWED UP GUYS, SORRY

[Califan007]

Gibbs most likely looks at the offense, and sees one that couldn't score more than 17 points during the first 11 games, go on to score 21 or more points in three of the last five games...

An offense that had major problems at center and right tackle, become HUGELY improved with the signing of Rabach and the return of Jansen...

An offense that started executing far more effectively and consistently with Ramsey under center than it did Brunell..

And yet one that had far, far too many stupid, drive-stalling penalties and turnovers...and Gibbs knows that if you improve on those two things alone, your offense immediately performs better.

And I'm guessing that Gibbs also sees, that adding a rookie wr is not gonna help keep the penalties or turnovers down one iota. All the highlight plays in the world won't amount to much if they keep getting called back because of holding or falst starts...ie: Ramsey's fantastic throw to Cooley for an apparent TD against the Giants...called back because of holding...Brunell's apparent go-ahead TD to Portis being called back because of illegal motion...Randy Moss' TD catch against the Skins last year getting called back because of...you guessed it...holding.

All you see, I'm guessing, is Brunell and company sucking the first half of the season...that, and "I don't like Moss or Gardner"....if so, that's fine. But it doesn't make too compelling an argument...

[skinsarethebest]

Originally posted by Tarhog


Predict all you want. The bad thing for you is we don't throw any posts away. Sometimes, eating crow can constitute a very large mouthful.

You started the thread - I find what you're saying ridiculous.

We needed depth a young cornerback. We got an outstanding one. Its that simple. Might we have other needs? Sure. But we can only fill them one pick at a time. You're ridiculously overstating your case.

i'm just calling it the way i see it -- it's not about eating crow or not eating crow -- i will stand by my prediction that we will NOT have a better offense this year than last year's offense if we don't add either a WR or TE from this point forward until the beginning of the regular season

let's see what they do with #25

:2cents:

[Art]

Originally posted by skinsarethebest


if we don't draft a WR or TE, care to wager on how our offense would do?

step up to the plate if you're game

i predict we'd have less total yards on offense this year than last year, if we don't add one to the above positions in this offseason

I want to bet.

I have $1,000 saying we'll improve in total yardage this year whether we add a player at tight end or receiver or not. I will donate my winnings to the site. You do with your winnings what you want.

I take it we're on since you offered the bet, right?

[Hooper]

This is a solid safe pick, not a sexy pick. We were incredibly thin at corner. I like Mike Williams, but did we really want to give Patrick three new receivers to get used throwing to?

[Dirk Diggler]

want to bet.

I have $1,000 saying we'll improve in total yardage this year whether we add a player at tight end or receiver or not. I will donate my winnings to the site. You do with your winnings what you want.

I take it we're on since you offered the bet, right?.

I want yo get in on this too

[Califan007]

Originally posted by Art


I want to bet.

I have $1,000 saying we'll improve in total yardage this year whether we add a player at tight end or receiver or not. I will donate my winnings to the site. You do with your winnings what you want.

I take it we're on since you offered the bet, right?
I want in on the bet, too...measure it by however you want to: total yards, points per game...whatever. And like Art, I'll donate my winnings to extremeskins.com.

Seriously, name the amount you wanna bet, SRTB...consider me in.

[skinsarethebest]

Originally posted by Art


I want to bet.

I have $1,000 saying we'll improve in total yardage this year whether we add a player at tight end or receiver or not. I will donate my winnings to the site. You do with your winnings what you want.

I take it we're on since you offered the bet, right?

A) sorry, Art, don't have that cash -- was thinking more along an avatar type bet

B) the bet was intended as a sort of rebuttal to Tarhog's semi-harsh "PSP" post posted on the first page

C) but if you still really do want to bet, Art, I will throw in a friendly wager at the $100 level, to be donated to the site, saying that IF we don't take another WR/TE player this year, our total offensive yardage will be less than our offensive yardage this year -- for obvious reasons, I'd be less inclined to make that bet if we got matt jones, clayton, or someone else like that

the downside to this is that i realized somethings' not right when you have to root for the skins to not achieve a certain goal, but i guess at the end of the day it's not a big deal if the money's going to go to extremeksins either way

lemme know

:cool:

[mookie0720]

Originally posted by skinsarethebest


if we don't draft a WR or TE, care to wager on how our offense would do?

step up to the plate if you're game

i predict we'd have less total yards on offense this year than last year, if we don't add one to the above positions in this offseason

Dude, I've been getting grilled on the other thread for saying our offense will still suck, but you're taking it to an extreme.

There is 0 chance we have less yards than last season simply based on the fact that Mark Brunell will no longer be playing.

Add that to the fact that the line will be better, and I think it's a lock we have more yards.

[Tarhog]

Like I said, YOU started the thread - its not about being harsh, I just don't see how you throw some of this stuff out there.


thanks to some absolutely mindboggling decision making by the front office with the #9 pick.... WTF?

Explain, in all seriousness, how picking up arguably the #1 corner available when we have no one proven (except for Walt Harris) to take Smoot's place, is 'mindboggling'?


if we don't pick up Matt Jones with #25...

So picking up one of the best corners available is 'mindboggling', but going after an unproven 'project' because he's a freak physically would be solid?


I will go into the 2005 season with absolutely ZERO expectations of anything resembling a competitive football team, thanks to a complete lack of offense

We've got one of the top 3 RBs in the league, a revitalized offensive line, the best offensive coach in NFL history, and Patrick Ramsey who in my opinion is poised for a breakout year. Oh, and we're not done drafting yet.


or even reach 8-8

I'll bet you another $1,000 on that one.


every win this year will be a pleasant surprise to me, something which I won't expect and for which I will genuinely be grateful, once and when it happens -- kind of an odd way to appreciate football, but I have the F.O. to thank for that

Thats exactly right - you will have the F.O. to thank :)

[skinsarethebest]

Originally posted by mookie0720


Dude, I've been getting grilled on the other thread for saying our offense will still suck, but you're taking it to an extreme.

There is 0 chance we have less yards than last season simply based on the fact that Mark Brunell will no longer be playing.

Add that to the fact that the line will be better, and I think it's a lock we have more yards.

before this all gets out of hand, as i've had like 3 people posting me asking me to bet (since when has this become partypoker.net), let me clarify what exactly it was that i initially even said in the first place -- i was responding directly to a Tarhog post by saying I would stick by my claim that this team wouldn't do more on the offensive side of the ball IF WE DIDN'T GET ANOTHER WR/TE -- that's the genesis of this whole thing

how this became me turning into the Bellagio and fielding wagers from left and right is a mystery to me, but hey, I guess I can go up against Art for $100 bucks assuming the above condition (re: drafting offense) is met

[skinsarethebest]

Originally posted by Tarhog
Like I said, YOU started the thread - its not about being harsh, I just don't see how you throw some of this stuff out there.



you're right -- I did start this thread -- but if you check the other postings on this site, I'm not the only one who has this opinion of the team's decision making -- in all fairness, my post is about 10x less bitter and venomous than some of the other ones I've seen here

like I said, the F.O., if it shows a continued refusal to focus on improving the offense via the draft, will get more of the same -- or at least, that's my expectation going into the season -- if they prove me wrong, i'd be happy as a fan -- plain and simple