Is Larry Hughes overrated defensively?

[refuze]

Yeah, he's great at getting steals but he also gives up as many plays as he makes. I remember him going for steals and letting his man go for a scores.

I think we will be fine without him.

[Chachie]

I say no, he's not overrated.

[tundey]

Why? Cos he now plays for Cleveland?

Originally posted by refuze
Yeah, he's great at getting steals but he also gives up as many plays as he makes. I remember him going for steals and letting his man go for a scores.

I think we will be fine without him.

[Leonard Washington]

i think he's overrated but most of the guys on the all-defensive team are. but a steal is a steal, especially when it leads to a bucket.

[Gamebreaker]

Is he overrated defensively? Yes, and I'm not just saying that because he's no longer a Wizard. He forgoes stopping his man from penetrating into the paint for a shot at getting a steal. Basically he gambles way too much.

He may have lead the league in steals last season, but I would've rather liked his average to go down just a little while he played better man-to-man defense.

[Destino]

He doesn't do everything on defense amazingly well, but if you are going to do one thing then be the best at it....and you know what, he was. #1 in the league on steals per game.

Like it or not folks when your name is listed #1 on a defensive stat, you deserve the praise.

[thito_da_skins_fan]

His steals made up for whatever he lacked defensively. I'd still love to have him.

[refuze]

Originally posted by tundey
Why? Cos he now plays for Cleveland?



No, because I know how he could lock people down. But after thinking about it, Wade destroyed him in the playoffs. And he gambled a whole awful lot.

[thito_da_skins_fan]

Originally posted by refuze
No, because I know how he could lock people down. But after thinking about it, Wade destroyed him in the playoffs. And he gambled a whole awful lot.

To be fair, Wade destroyed everybody.

[Gichin13]

Yes. Ok ball defender, gambled way too much. Great steals for transition buckets, but often out of position. The point is to stay in front of your man, not cherry pick him from behind a couple times a game and get owned. Wade made him look like he was in quicksand the entire series.

Give me Bruce Bowen. Give me Lindsay Hunter or Chauncey Billups. Those three guys are true defenders. They may get less steals, but they disrupt the hell out of an offense. Jason Kidd in his day was a real solid defender despite not being the quickest guy around. I think Wade played better D than Hughes. Allan Iverson is a similar gambler, but I think better defender than Hughes. Kobe Bryant is better. I think Ginobili and Parker are both better defenders. Andre Miller from Denver is better on the ball.

The real tell tale sign is taking something away. If you can take a driver and turn him into a jump shooter, that is the sign of good defense.

Old school -- Jordan got lots of steals, but he shut guys down straight up too. So could Pippen. Joe Dumars was a great defender. Isiah was tough as well despite being 6 feet or less. Micahel Cooper was a great defender. Dennis Johnson. That is more the mark to me than a pile of gambling steals and a lot of out of position plays.

[Gichin13]

Originally posted by thito_da_skins_fan


To be fair, Wade destroyed everybody.

True, but at least Detroit slowed him down a couple games.

[thito_da_skins_fan]

Originally posted by Gichin13
True, but at least Detroit slowed him down a couple games.

Detroit also plays much better team defense. They gave him different defensive looks everytime he touched the ball and usually had a different defender on him each game. They slowed him down more than Washington, but he still torched the Pistons.

Larry isn't a bad defender. Is he the best? No. But I'd still take his defense over anyone else on the team last season, except for maybe Ruffin.

[RedskinzOwnU]

I wasn't impressed with hughes' defense. And yes, that was before he got traded. His tendencies got completely exposed in the playoffs.

[dg28daman]

Come on guys, just cuz he's gone doesn't mean he's any less of a player. he's great, and showed it last season.

[Mooka]

he played the passing lanes great but the bigger stronger guards were a problem for him. (Kobe, Jason Richardson to name a couple)

we desperately need a guard to who can play some D though. Luckily guys like this are a dime a dozen. Need a hustle guard.

[Gichin13]

Originally posted by thito_da_skins_fan


Detroit also plays much better team defense. They gave him different defensive looks everytime he touched the ball and usually had a different defender on him each game. They slowed him down more than Washington, but he still torched the Pistons.

Larry isn't a bad defender. Is he the best? No. But I'd still take his defense over anyone else on the team last season, except for maybe Ruffin.

Agreed across the board.

I think Arenas has the potential to be a better defender, and actually was better in the playoffs some games. Ruffin plays tough D every night. Haywood came along pretty well too.

[Renegade7]

McGrady had 26 points on us with larry playing

Kobe had 36 but later in the season scored 18 on us

Steve Fancis had 23, 10, 32, 21

AI, shoot, 28 in the one game he played us last year

Lebron, 24 and later 38

Wade :) 37, 22, 8 (injured in that game), 29 playoffs 20, 31, 31, 42

Ray Allen 17, then 27 later

Jason Richardson had 26 points and later 34

Paul Pierce had 37, 26, 20, 25

The above is unbiased compiled data of scoring nights by notable names against the wizards while all-defensive team larry hughes was playing.

Now this is not done to bash on larry. I have a lot of respect for him, even if he followed the money to cleveland. The point of this post is to get everyone to understand that there was absolutly no point in matching cleveland's offer or even coming close if matching it if this is the type of damage we're going to take with larry playing. To many holes on this team, and seriously, all he does is steal and score. The three headed monster didn't work, so it's time to spread it out like a real playoff team.

[refuze]

One man alone can't stop five players. We are better off getting a team that can play team defense.

[Renegade7]

Originally posted by refuze
One man alone can't stop five players. We are better off getting a team that can play team defense.

bingo

[thito_da_skins_fan]

Originally posted by Gichin13
Haywood came along pretty well too.

Haywood came along, but he's still too inconsistent -- both offensively and defensively. He's a very frustrating player to watch night in and night out. I hope he continues to improve, but only time (and coaching) will tell.

[Gichin13]

Originally posted by thito_da_skins_fan


Haywood came along, but he's still too inconsistent -- both offensively and defensively. He's a very frustrating player to watch night in and night out. I hope he continues to improve, but only time (and coaching) will tell.

I entirely agree, but I also think saying "We need a great center" is something many teams would say. Who would I take in front of him?
Shaq and Duncan are easy. So is Stoudamire. Yao Ming. Ben Wallace purely on defense, but scoring average is pretty close. Maybe a couple others, but beyond that first layer there is a huge unwashed middle of guys that are all pretty close that I would say Haywood is part of.

[thito_da_skins_fan]

Originally posted by Gichin13
I entirely agree, but I also think saying "We need a great center" is something many teams would say. Who would I take in front of him?
Shaq and Duncan are easy. So is Stoudamire. Yao Ming. Ben Wallace purely on defense, but scoring average is pretty close. Maybe a couple others, but beyond that first layer there is a huge unwashed middle of guys that are all pretty close that I would say Haywood is part of.

What's the last NBA team to win a championship without a "great" center? Haywood needs to step up on a more consistent basis or Grunfeld needs to look to improve that position.

[Gichin13]

Originally posted by thito_da_skins_fan


What's the last NBA team to win a championship without a "great" center? Haywood needs to step up on a more consistent basis or Grunfeld needs to look to improve that position.

I agree Haywood needs more consistency. What I saw was that he really seemed to "get" it at the end of last year and in the playoffs. Hopefully, he can build on that and keep playing at that level and improve.

I would worry more about filling a complete vacuum position rather than upgrading a piece that is pretty young, shows solid flashes on D and a developing post game, but is still raw. Haywood was a great pick for his spot in the draft.

On the other question, I think you can make a strong argument for last year's Detroit team. Ben is a great defender (GREAT would be a better way of putting it), but he is way far away from a complete center. A "great" center to me is Shaq (maybe minus a couple years), Duncan (nodding that he is maybe more a PF but still), Hakeem. Behind that, you have 6 Bulls championships with journeymen centers.

I think we had another thread debating the need for a dominant center ... I think on defense, a dominant center is still critical to winning, but less so on offense now. It certainly helps a lot though!!!!:laugh:

[thito_da_skins_fan]

Originally posted by Gichin13
I think on defense, a dominant center is still critical to winning, but less so on offense now.

And I tend to agree with that, which explains Detroit's success. That and the fact that Detroit is a great "team" and you don't really find that too often in these days of the NBA.

As far as the Bulls, I could have played center and they still would have won 6 championships. Why? Michael Jordan.