NFL apology today will be?

[Thiebear]

Just a 75k fine for the WWE neck slam?
or will they apologize for then not giving the 1/2 the distance to around the 11? (as opposed to giving the bears the ball)....

*My Prediction* -
They do both...

[SkinsD]

Also add sending those refs back to high school games.

[airborneskins]

Just a 75k fine for the WWE neck slam?
or will they apologize for then not giving the 1/2 the distance to around the 11? (as opposed to giving the bears the ball)....

*My Prediction* -
They do both...

Neither. Somehow the defender is gonna have been pushed into Ramsey, and it will be the QB's fault for getting his head chopped off. :doh:

[jrockster21]

Cowboy Fan:

The hit on Ramsey was perfectly legal, just like every penalty called on the Skins in the past 5 years. I am devoid of all rational thought, but I just thought I would share my opinion on the subject. Skins are terrible. Their defense, #1 in the NFC last year and not looking any worse is terrible. Only Gregg Williams makes them good, not the actual talent. The Skins are terrible. The Cowboys beat a team minus their number 1 receiving threat by only 4 points in a squeaker, when it was obvious if Brees had had Gates around, the Turds would have lost by 3 TDs or more.

But the Cowboys are much better than the Skins. No doubt.

[BillyKilmer]

The NFL will do nothing

[Burgold]

No, we'll get an apology. For the last three years we have led the league in apologies from the league office.

[Taylor 36]

I know, Burgold. It disgusts me how we always get shafted by the officials in games, and the league has the Redskins FO address bookmarked on their desktops because of how often they have to send apologies, but their "sorry, we blew it again" doesn't do anything to help us or rectify the problems with the officials.

[Bang]

Not only will we probably not get an apology, but this blatantly bad hit is being used on Sportscenter to hype up their idiotic Coors Light football song segment.

I agree that it is football, but the rules are rules, and that hit is against the rules. For the refs to not call it is bad enough, but for the NFl to allow ESPN to glorify it is just bad form.
As said before, if that had been Favre, not only would Briggs been flagged and fined, he likely would be tossed out of the game, and Sportscenter would be all over it with a decidedly different tone.. one has to wonder if they would show that play with the words "I..Love.. Animals bustin loose.." played over the top had it been any other QB.

If every QB was allowed to be subjected to such hits, I wouldn't care. it IS football, and it IS a tough game.. but the fact is, the NFL has gone out of it's way to protect QBs,,, yet in this case they failed miserably.

~Bang

[codeorama]

I posted this in another thread, I don't know if this is a factor or not but the guy that hit Ramsey was pushed into Ramsey by a Skins O lineman. Maybe that was a factor in the call.

[arrowhead]

Not only will we probably not get an apology, but this blatantly bad hit is being used on Sportscenter to hype up their idiotic Coors Light football song segment.

I agree that it is football, but the rules are rules, and that hit is against the rules. For the refs to not call it is bad enough, but for the NFl to allow ESPN to glorify it is just bad form.
As said before, if that had been Favre, not only would Briggs been flagged and fined, he likely would be tossed out of the game, and Sportscenter would be all over it with a decidedly different tone.. one has to wonder if they would show that play with the words "I..Love.. Animals bustin loose.." played over the top had it been any other QB.

If every QB was allowed to be subjected to suc hits, I wouldn't care. it IS football, and it IS a tough game.. but the fact is, the NFL has gone out of it's way to protect QBs,,, yet in this case they failed miserably.

~Bang


Well said Bang. I watched the game with two Charger fans & one Iggle fan and they all agreed that was an illegal hit. If I'm the Skins FO, I reject any apology from the NFL.

[dreamingwolf]

I posted this in another thread, I don't know if this is a factor or not but the guy that hit Ramsey was pushed into Ramsey by a Skins O lineman. Maybe that was a factor in the call.

the commentators said that, and so did sports center up until bledsoe got barely hit in the head and they called the penalty. Then I noticed sports center started to change their tune saying the guy might get fined.

Really think about it, even if the guy was pushed into him the guy knows he has him by the neck and proceeds to lay all his weight into it. I know it happends fast out there, but neck feels much different than chest the guy could have layed off a bit even if he was "pushed".

My guess to what happend was earlier they called a roughing the passer on a hit to Ramsey, and after the fact the ref might have thought well it wasnt so bad maybe I made a mistake. Then saw Ramsey got hit high, thought at the time well I will let that one go to make up for it. Then later realized damn that guy took his head off, I really should have called that one. Lack of consistancy.

[Utah]

I am pretty sure that they will state that the hit was not intentional and that the fact that Jansen was hitting the guy put the defender in a position to be unable to control his body. IOW, he was blocked into the QB. Which of course was compounded by the fact that you teach blitzing backers to have their hands streched towards where you feel the ball will be or too keep a QB from stepping up from your blitz.

While all things suck about the play, I don't think it was intentional nor really a penalty because of the fact that he was hit into Ramsey.

Edit (I just need to watch the play again.)

[thewagen]

Not only will we probably not get an apology, but this blatantly bad hit is being used on Sportscenter to hype up their idiotic Coors Light football song segment.

I agree that it is football, but the rules are rules, and that hit is against the rules. For the refs to not call it is bad enough, but for the NFl to allow ESPN to glorify it is just bad form.
As said before, if that had been Favre, not only would Briggs been flagged and fined, he likely would be tossed out of the game, and Sportscenter would be all over it with a decidedly different tone.. one has to wonder if they would show that play with the words "I..Love.. Animals bustin loose.." played over the top had it been any other QB.

If every QB was allowed to be subjected to such hits, I wouldn't care. it IS football, and it IS a tough game.. but the fact is, the NFL has gone out of it's way to protect QBs,,, yet in this case they failed miserably.

~Bang

IT'll probably make the #1 "JACKED UP" hit tonight on the MNF pre-game!

FS

[codeorama]

I am pretty sure that they will state that the hit was not intentional and that the fact that Jansen was hitting the guy put the defender in a position to be unable to control his body. IOW, he was blocked into the QB. Which of course was compounded by the fact that you teach blitzing backers to have their hands streched towards where you feel the ball will be or too keep a QB from stepping up from your blitz.

While all things suck about the play, I don't think it was intentional nor really a penalty because of the fact that he was hit into Ramsey.

Edit (I just need to watch the play again.)


This is what I was trying to say. If you watch the tape, it looks like the guy might not have been able to hit ramsey at all, but was pushed right into him. My only question is if that matters, in terms of the rule book. I don't think it was an intentional clothesline.

[TheGreek1973]

This is the type of calls the Redskins got all last year. Now imagine if the proper call was made, we would not have lost the ball, we would have had it at the 6 with a first down and goal. Don't know if we would have scored a TD but since Cooley scored in the play before (a got a another very questionable call) I say our chances would have been good with a field goal almost a certainty. Then in the end of the game you look at the score and say wow the skins offense sucks. Right. :rolleyes:

[thewagen]

I am pretty sure that they will state that the hit was not intentional and that the fact that Jansen was hitting the guy put the defender in a position to be unable to control his body. IOW, he was blocked into the QB. Which of course was compounded by the fact that you teach blitzing backers to have their hands streched towards where you feel the ball will be or too keep a QB from stepping up from your blitz.

While all things suck about the play, I don't think it was intentional nor really a penalty because of the fact that he was hit into Ramsey.

Edit (I just need to watch the play again.)


You need to watch it again then. It's one thing to be blocked into the situation, but the guy "finished" off the neck hit with a slam of Ramsey's head into the ground. If he had hit Ramsey's neck then showed some restraint as if to pull his arm back, then fine. But what he did after hitting the neck is what infuriates all 'Skins fans. WHat I would do if the 'Skins get a letter from the NFL is return it in a box full of cow SH_T, then tell them that GWilliams has been instructed that it is OPEN SEASON on QBs. H$ll, we're gonna get fined anyway for just looking mean, might as well take some opposing QBs down with us.

It's getting quite comical the past few years to see these penalties cost the 'Skins crucial games. JUST WATCH, this was a setup game for scr_wing the 'Skins against the COWPUKES! Don't know how many times KeyshawnJ pushed off yesterday and didn't get called ONCE!

FS

[Thiebear]

We got the hit on highlights here?
I saw it 5-6 times and it looked like he "finished" the move as opposed to just pushing him backwards..
(pulls out the JFK film)
Back and to the Ground...
Back and to the Ground.....
;)

[Utah]

You know, watching it again, I see Ramsey stepping up quick in the pocket, I see Jansen get a solid shot on the defender and redirecting him completely, not just a chip shot. I see the defender not having an ability to control himself with the shot.

I hate seeing Ramsey hurt like that, but I also do not want to see the ability of a blitzing LB to be restricted because even if he is knocked upside down and his foot hits a QB in the head, its a penalty. In my eyes, the same thing happened here. It just looked mean as hell because its our QB and the defender didn't lose control of his body because hitting Ramsey kept him up.

If that is something the league wants to adjust, I won't like it as a defensive coach, but I'll understand. Its just one more thing that the league will put in the hands of the officials and I don't like officials.

[Park City Skins]

"He's going to live. That was a penalty though." ;)

[codeorama]

You know, watching it again, I see Ramsey stepping up quick in the pocket, I see Jansen get a solid shot on the defender and redirecting him completely, not just a chip shot. I see the defender not having an ability to control himself with the shot.

I hate seeing Ramsey hurt like that, but I also do not want to see the ability of a blitzing LB to be restricted because even if he is knocked upside down and his foot hits a QB in the head, its a penalty. In my eyes, the same thing happened here. It just looked mean as hell because its our QB and the defender didn't lose control of his body because hitting Ramsey kept him up.

If that is something the league wants to adjust, I won't like it as a defensive coach, but I'll understand. Its just one more thing that the league will put in the hands of the officials and I don't like officials.

Totally agree. Sucks that Ramsey got hurt, but it wasn't an intentional clothesline. There were other factors involved.

[TheGreek1973]

This is the type of calls the Redskins got all last year. Now imagine if the proper call was made, we would not have lost the ball, we would have had it at the 6 with a first down and goal. Don't know if we would have scored a TD but since Cooley scored in the play before (a got a another very questionable call) I say our chances would have been good with a field goal almost a certainty. Then in the end of the game you look at the score and say wow the skins offense sucks. Right. :rolleyes:

[dfitzo53]

I posted this in another thread, I don't know if this is a factor or not but the guy that hit Ramsey was pushed into Ramsey by a Skins O lineman. Maybe that was a factor in the call.

Maybe it was a factor, but generally refs are careful enough around quarterbacks that intentions don't come into play unless the defender made every attempt to avoid contact. In the Bills game this week Lawyer Milloy got called for hitting a sliding QB even though he took off while the QB was standing and turned his shoulders away once he saw him go down. He did the best he could to avoid nailing him and still got flagged. With the passer in the pocket they're generally even more protective, and if you hit the quarterback in the face you're going to get penalized 90% of the time.

When Lance Briggs has his arms flailing like that I can't call it accidental. He may have been pushed, but don't tell me his blocker forced him to hold his hands in Ramsey's face. Also, Patrick Ramsey's a sizeable guy. It's tough to slam a man like that down by the neck unless you mean to.

[wskin44]

I am pretty sure that they will state that the hit was not intentional and that the fact that Jansen was hitting the guy put the defender in a position to be unable to control his body. IOW, he was blocked into the QB. Which of course was compounded by the fact that you teach blitzing backers to have their hands streched towards where you feel the ball will be or too keep a QB from stepping up from your blitz.

While all things suck about the play, I don't think it was intentional nor really a penalty because of the fact that he was hit into Ramsey.

Edit (I just need to watch the play again.)

Utah, when you watch the play again check this out: The defenders right arm is straight out and he is leaping in the air trying to engulf PR just as Jansen hits him. The hit does send the d's arm toward PR's head and the arm slips under PR's face mask. But now watch frame by frame the rest of the play. The d's body ends up behind PR and rather than keep his arm straight and try to withdraw it from PR's neck he crooks his arm around PR's neck to get better leverage and pulls PR down from behind forcefully by the neck. PR's head slams into the defender's body at a sick angle and only when the defender sees that PR is down and the ball is lose does he let go of PR's neck.

Although it can be said that his arm got in PR's neck by accident, what the defender did after that was not an accident.

[terpfan44]

Cowboy Fan:

The hit on Ramsey was perfectly legal, just like every penalty called on the Skins in the past 5 years. I am devoid of all rational thought, but I just thought I would share my opinion on the subject. Skins are terrible. Their defense, #1 in the NFC last year and not looking any worse is terrible. Only Gregg Williams makes them good, not the actual talent. The Skins are terrible. The Cowboys beat a team minus their number 1 receiving threat by only 4 points in a squeaker, when it was obvious if Brees had had Gates around, the Turds would have lost by 3 TDs or more.

But the Cowboys are much better than the Skins. No doubt.

w/o cortez's..tackles..and parcells getting those same calls..big d looks
just like the 6-10 joke they were in '04...

I guess we'll see d'marcus ware preseason film-file until he goes to Canton..
shameless hype

[Underwater Ally]

So the defender didn't mean to hit Ramsey? The guy was trying to avoid hitting Ramsey and the big mean O-lineman pushed him into the quarterback who he was desperately trying to avoid?
:doh:

The hit was a clothesline. In order to execute this kind of hit, you need to willfully extend your arm and make contact with the victim's shoulders, neck, or and head. That is what the defender did, and that is what caused Ramsey to go down. The defender was not pushed into Ramsey.

And there will be at least a fine, and likely an apology. The league specifically made these rule to avoid injury to the quarterback. When a quarterback is injured and no penalty is called, that is inexcusable. The league will see a need to send a message to the entire NFL that these plays are unacceptable.

[Utah]

Remember guys, Patrick was stepping up in the pocket so the defender was already going to possibly miss him, which is why his arm was out because he was trying to get a piece of Patrick to hopefully pull him down, but I don't think everyone is taking into account how much of piece of the guy Jansen got. He launched him.

Again, not defending the Bear here, just defending the sport and its sometimes touchy rules around QBs. I want our LBs to be able to punish QBs anytime they stay in the pocket, but there has to be a point when a defender can be released of his liability and I think this is one of them here. Had Jansen not hit him, I don't think we are discussing anything more then a well timed blitz that stopped our drive.

[TheLongshot]

Accidental or not, it should have been a penalty.

Just because you didn't mean it, doesn't mean you didn't do wrong.

Jason

[ThatGuy]

Utah.. let me guess.. defensive coach?? :)

I agree with TheLongshot above me. He may not have meant to do it, but he still did it, and its illegal.

[codeorama]

Accidental or not, it should have been a penalty.

Just because you didn't mean it, doesn't mean you didn't do wrong.

Jason


Not true. If a player is blocked into another player and they "clip" them, clipping isn't supposed to be called. Again, I don't have an NFL rulebook in front of me, but that is an example that I know is true. If a player is blocked into another, the clipping call is not made.

[Utah]

I think what will happen is he will receive a fine and the NFLPA will appeal it and get it reduced. A message sent about what would happen if...........

Actually, offensive coordinator, but I played defense my whole football carreer. Still in my heart to hunt and kill.

[Chief skin]

Face it the league does not like Snyder (I am not crazy about him either) so they will slap him around every chance they get on or off the field.

[Underwater Ally]

Face it the league does not like Snyder (I am not crazy about him either) so they will slap him around every chance they get on or off the field.

Gibbs is the face of this franchise now.

[routemkr7]

They should fine him...but they probably wont


jrockster77 needs to shutup too

[Rypien 91]

Can you imagine if it was Sean Taylor who did that hit? :doh: Suspended for a game and a huge fine.

[Chris Worthy]

Can you imagine if it was Sean Taylor who did that hit? :doh: Suspended for a game and a huge fine.


Thank u!!! it was a closeline around the NECK!!!! Not the jersey...the Neck!!! I dont care if he was pushed into him by Jansen or not! 20 years ago you can get away with that. But todays NFL made sure to keep Farve, Brady, Manning, McNabb, and anyone else that they can put a face on to represent the NFL standing upright to sell tickets and keep the score high. This falls along the line with until we win, we won't get the respect of the Refs or the NFL.

I feel bad for Ramsey..so far his career in the league has been a roller coaster. Here's hoping Gibbs gives him a chance to get back out there.

[Rocky21]

I'm surprised there is this much debate on this subject. The officials blew the call. Briggs or whatever his name is will get a big fine from the league. And it will happen this week.

[The Rook]

Utah, when you watch the play again check this out: The defenders right arm is straight out and he is leaping in the air trying to engulf PR just as Jansen hits him. The hit does send the d's arm toward PR's head and the arm slips under PR's face mask. But now watch frame by frame the rest of the play. The d's body ends up behind PR and rather than keep his arm straight and try to withdraw it from PR's neck he crooks his arm around PR's neck to get better leverage and pulls PR down from behind forcefully by the neck. PR's head slams into the defender's body at a sick angle and only when the defender sees that PR is down and the ball is lose does he let go of PR's neck.

Although it can be said that his arm got in PR's neck by accident, what the defender did after that was not an accident.

Here is the other thing about the play. After the play, Briggs jumped up and did the "gloating dance". Don't know if that showed up on the TV, but it was obvious at Fed Ex. Accidental? Give me a break! :mad:

[MaddogCT]

Unintentional or not, Briggs should have been ejected from the game:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20041219_JAC@GB

"Jaguars safety Donovin Darius was ejected for a helmet-stripping, clothesline hit that sent wide receiver Robert Ferguson to the hospital with 4:41 remaining. Ferguson temporarily lost feeling in his legs, but regained feeling in an ambulance. "

http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/GB/8019438

Darius swept in after Ferguson's leaping 31-yard grab of Brett Favre's pass at midfield. Darius hit the defenseless Ferguson across the neck, stunning the crowd and infuriating the Packers with 4:41 left in their 28-25 loss to the Jaguars.

Darius, who was ejected, defended his hit as non-intentional and said he was trying to jar the ball loose.

:logo:

[sknsgirl]

We'll get an apology just like we always do. But lotta good that does! How does that help?!

[Khun Kao]

I'm surprised there is a debate as well. A players intentions should not be taken into account in assessing a penalty. I can understand intentions being taken into consideration when assessing whether or not there will be a fine, but I've seen penalties caused for much, much, MUCH less....

About 2 years ago, LaVar was rushing a QB (forget which one). The QB got the ball off before LaVar got there. LaVar changed his direction but still bumped the QB in the shoulder as he ran past him. The QB was not moved much at all. I think he took a 1/2 step to regain his balance, but it was an unintentional, glancing blow to his non-throwing shoulder. We all know what happened.....

15 yards, roughing the passer.

[Califan007]

I could have sworn the guy leaped towards Ramsey before Jansen even touched him...his angle and trajectory were not put off any by Jansen's late attempt to try and block him....and it definitely did NOT seem as if Jansen's the reason the guy's arm wrapped around Ramsey's neck.

[codeorama]

Again, he was blocked into Ramsey, that made it less of an obvious call. Had that same play occured, but no redskin lineman touched the defender, I'm positive a flag would have been thrown. The guy's arms were extended before Jansen hit him and he was clearly redirected slightly, enough that the ref could have reasonably felt that he would not have hit Ramsey's neck had he not been hit into him.

Another similar rule is roughing the kicker.. if the defender is blocked into the kicker, there is NO penalty.

I"m sure someone here can post a video link...

[Mooney]

Can you imagine if it was Sean Taylor who did that hit?



Or if Jansen had made the block.

I know I'm alone on this, but Jansen needs to pick that up. No excuses. Ramsey needs to see/feel the outside pressure.

[dfitzo53]

Or if Jansen had made the block.

I know I'm alone on this, but Jansen needs to pick that up. No excuses. Ramsey needs to see/feel the outside pressure.

Sure, but the thread isn't titled "Blocking Assignments and Who Missed Them."

[jimster]

Unintentional or not, Briggs should have been ejected from the game:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20041219_JAC@GB

"Jaguars safety Donovin Darius was ejected for a helmet-stripping, clothesline hit that sent wide receiver Robert Ferguson to the hospital with 4:41 remaining. Ferguson temporarily lost feeling in his legs, but regained feeling in an ambulance. "

http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/GB/8019438

Darius swept in after Ferguson's leaping 31-yard grab of Brett Favre's pass at midfield. Darius hit the defenseless Ferguson across the neck, stunning the crowd and infuriating the Packers with 4:41 left in their 28-25 loss to the Jaguars.

Darius, who was ejected, defended his hit as non-intentional and said he was trying to jar the ball loose.

:logo:

[Mooney]

Sure, but the thread isn't titled "Blocking Assignments and Who Missed Them."


Jansen makes his block, this thread wouldn't exist.

[Tarpon75]

Remember guys, Patrick was stepping up in the pocket so the defender was already going to possibly miss him, which is why his arm was out because he was trying to get a piece of Patrick to hopefully pull him down, but I don't think everyone is taking into account how much of piece of the guy Jansen got. He launched him.

Again, not defending the Bear here, just defending the sport and its sometimes touchy rules around QBs. I want our LBs to be able to punish QBs anytime they stay in the pocket, but there has to be a point when a defender can be released of his liability and I think this is one of them here. Had Jansen not hit him, I don't think we are discussing anything more then a well timed blitz that stopped our drive.
You seem to be hung up on wether it was intentional or not.It just does not matter, he hit him in the facemask and neck area .Intent does not matter.How many times have you seen a defender act like he was trying to hold up his momentum after he hit a qb?They almost allways get penalized.

[TheBig_E]

I'd be willing to bet anyone in here a $1 that if the one flying thru the air was LaVar Arrington, you would have seen a flag and perhaps an ejection too.
Neither. Somehow the defender is gonna have been pushed into Ramsey, and it will be the QB's fault for getting his head chopped off. :doh:

[Brown 43]

Are you guys on crack? That was a deliberate clothsline and should have been a penalty. No to the blocker blocking him into PR and No to PR stepping up in the pocket. This should have been a yellow flag!

You bet if Lavar did this he would have been flagged!

[MaddogCT]

Again, he was blocked into Ramsey, that made it less of an obvious call. Had that same play occured, but no redskin lineman touched the defender, I'm positive a flag would have been thrown. The guy's arms were extended before Jansen hit him and he was clearly redirected slightly, enough that the ref could have reasonably felt that he would not have hit Ramsey's neck had he not been hit into him.

Another similar rule is roughing the kicker.. if the defender is blocked into the kicker, there is NO penalty.

I"m sure someone here can post a video link...

If Briggs had done the same to John Hall you would still say no penalty?

Come on.
He slammed Ramsey to the ground by the NECK. Even if he was totaly blocked into Ramsey, no block could cause a defender do that.

Edit:
There can be roughing penalty when the defender is blocked into the kicker and then wraps his arms aound him and then slams him to the ground.
A defender does not have free reign to slam a kicker into the turf, just because he was blocked into him.

:logo: