I am sorry, but Gibbs is just plain Wrong!!

[OldTownFan]

In 2004, Mark Brunell won the starting job, fair and square. The offense was new to both Brunell and Ramsey, though Ramsey got a later start as a result of hobbling around in June and July with a cast on his foot, he still dressed out, he still played, and Brunell was better. Period.

So, Mark earned the right to start, and he did. He played poorly, and Gibbs, being a stand up guy (at the time), stuck beside him, amidst the criticism, and gave him until 9 games into the season to get the offense turned around, and to personally improve his own shortcomings at the quarterback position. Brunell did his best, he was hurt with a hamstring, nobody but God and Brunell know how much that really did or didn't affect him, but nevertheless, he dress, he played, he was ineffective, he got benched.

Ramsey came in, for 7 games, albeit against some pretty decent teams (the Steelers, the Eagles twice), and outplayed Brunell at the QB position, and in addition helped the offense get turned around, be it ever so slightly.

Ramsey was dubbed the starter, was healthy during the entire offseason, worked all offseason, started every preaseason game, and again, like before with Brunell, amidst the criticism of Ramsey's performance (even though it was just the preseason) Gibbs, like a stand up guy, stuck with his man and didn't desert him (we won't even go into the drafting Jason Campbell bit, because I'm trying to give Joe Gibbs the benefit of every doubt).

Ramsey was hurt on the fourth drive, after having a touchdown called back by a weak pass interferance call, and Brunell went in. Brunell did not light the team on fire, or do anything that Ramsey had shown he could do as well (remember, Ramsey too, led the team down the field and the team was certainly in field goal range, which is the same thing Mark could only do, but was given 3 quarters...). Ramsey gets cleared by medical doctors, tells the coach he's ready to go back in, and yet, Gibbs says no. If Ramsey was cleared to play in the very game he was injured, than surely he'll be cleared 8 days later for Dallas.

My point is this, Brunell has always been the favorite, has always had the benefit of every doubt by Joe Gibbs, who was just looking for an excuse to put him in there, and it makes me sick to my stomach. "Sure Ramsey's fine, but we don't want to take any chances...(my ass, he let Brunell play 7 games with a pulled hamstring last year and Brunell is his darling)...And Mark was in a rythm, so we didn't want to disturb him..."

That's bull****, it's been one game, and Mark's "smooth transition" amounted to only 3 drives he led in 3 quarters for a total of 9 points. Give Ramsey a friggin chance, if Gibbs is smart, he'll start Ramsey, If Brunell gets the nod, than I have lost a lot of respect for Joe Gibbs who was just itching to sneak Brunell in the back door anyway he could find... And in addition, I'd like to sell my shares in the Redskins Playoffs '05 corporation because the stock is about to drop big time...

[CrazyZeb]

*sigh* BRUNELL HAS NOT BEEN NAMED THE STARTER.

[portisizzle]

damn :doh:

[portisizzle]

lavarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrr is gonnnnnnnnnnnnaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa kiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiillllllllllllllllllllllll l someboddddddddddddddddddddyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[jimster]

there's like a 90 page thread from yesterday on this subject, but bottom line is Gibbs has NOT named Brunnel the starter. - All he said was we'll see how Patrick feels.

He kept Mark in because he didn't want to take a chance with Patrick after taking a shot to the head and injuring himself worse or allowing himself to get gun-shy and hurt his already fragile confidence.

[OldTownFan]

Zeb, I hope to God your right, but if you were a betting man, can you honestly tell me you'd bet the farm that Ramsey will start? ?

I want to be so wrong here, but every thing is pointing to the "Patrick's neck was pretty sore, so I think we're gonna go ahead and go with Mark, he played well for us on Sunday. After the game, we'll settle things during the bye (where Brunell will be named the starter at the start, and be given 95% of the reps in practice)"

[CrazyZeb]

lavarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrr is gonnnnnnnnnnnnaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa kiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiillllllllllllllllllllllll l someboddddddddddddddddddddyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Leave him alone ya crazy bastard! :laugh:

[Truant]

I want Ramsey too, but I think Gibbs made the right call in leaving Brunell out there yesterday. Patrick got lit up and it wouldn't be wise to risk losing him for an extended period of time.

Save this for if/when Gibbs names Brunell starter for week 2... it's a bit premature now.

[CrazyZeb]

Zeb, I hope to God your right, but if you were a betting man, can you honestly tell me you'd bet the farm that Ramsey will start? ?

I want to be so wrong here, but every thing is pointing to the "Patrick's neck was pretty sore, so I think we're gonna go ahead and go with Mark, he played well for us on Sunday. After the game, we'll settle things during the bye (where Brunell will be named the starter at the start, and be given 95% of the reps in practice)"
Just don't say he IS wrong until he actually IS wrong (in your opinion).

[portisizzle]

Leave him alone ya crazy bastard! :laugh:


:laugh: I am telling you. That is really Lavar......

[whitejimmy]

As frustrating as it is, that fact is that we the fans have no clue about the performance of the quarterback. We don't know what play was called, we don't have the benefit of game tapes (reviewing TV coverage tells you little), we don't know if the receivers ran the right routes, etc.

Frankly, even Gibbs has limited knowledge of the QB performance until he reviews the game tapes. The vantage point from the sidelines can be pretty poor.

[OldTownFan]

Zeb, have you read or heard one iota of information from anybody associated with this team that even begins to hint that Patrick is gonna be playing on Monday night?

He got lit up, it was an illegal hit, a dirty hit, the guy has guts, he got up, shook it off, and said he was ready to go, Jesus, he survived two years of Spurrier, everybody knows he could survive one dirty hit...

My point is Gibbs didn't want to put Patrick in, because he was itching to see what Brunell could do, and Patrick being shaken up gave him the chance to do it.

If I'm wrong here, I will eat crowe gladly, I'll be glad to eat it beacause I'll be a happy camper that I don't have to watch Brunell throw the 2005 season short and out of bounds like he did 2004.

[Blondie]

So, I suppose Gibbs will just put MB in there just because he can and he is the coach and he can do WHATEVER he wants to do.

NOT because he wants to put into the line up WHOEVER is the most ready to play the boys and WHOEVER he THINKS has the best chance for bringing home a win.

He is just going to put in MB because he wants to.

OK. I see.

Geeez. How many threads about the same thing does there have to be about this subject?

NO ONE has been named yet.

NO ONE has been given the nod.

But I believe Gibbs WANTS to win in Dallas a heck of a lot more than ANY OF US CAN IMAGINE.

I think he will put in the qb that he believes can make that happen.

A I do NOT care which one it is.

Blondie

[Burger35]

We should wait and see, however I do believe from the pattern it doesn't look good for Ramsey.

[ntotoro]

Zeb, have you read or heard one iota of information from anybody associated with this team that even begins to hint that Patrick is gonna be playing on Monday night?

Have you read anything saying he won't be?

Dude took a pretty hard lick, an illegal one at that, regardless whether it was intentional. I wouldn't care if he said he was ok, either. Putting him back in would have been foolish. Take another hit like that and he's not walking off the field.

[OldTownFan]

No **** Gibbs wants to win..

P.S. He also wanted to win last year

oh, and he also wanted his 50 million dollar personal project called Mark Brunell to work out too, didn't happen..

The point is that Gibbs has been wrong in the past, and to me if he goes with Brunell even if its because he thinks Brunell will give him the best chance to win, I'm willing to wager the 2005 season he'll be wrong again....

I dont' doubt Gibbs desire, I doubt his decision making skills at the quarterback situation and I think he's been biased ever since Brunell drove his cunvulsing ass to a hospital to tell you the truth. Mark is a awesome guy, the kind of guy you want to see win, and I think those things combined with Gibbs past quarterback philosophy are working against the betterment of the team, I understand why and how Gibbs has arrived at the decision it looks like he's going to make, I just don't agree at all... and am dreading the 2005 season under Mark's arm.

[codeorama]

Gibbs won 3 superbowls because he always made the wrong choices, he had grudges against players and played favorites... :paranoid:

[OldTownFan]

Even Gibbs said 3 super bowls means jack **** now

as evidenced by Gibbs good choices and are league leading offense, The Past determines the future right?

[bigpoppa]

It does not look good for ramsey ,I agree on that, but i also think that we need to just wait and see and give up all this Ramsey/Brunell talk untill it is needed . I am getting tired of hearing it.

[Blondie]

No **** Gibbs wants to win..

P.S. He also wanted to win last year

oh, and he also wanted his 50 million dollar personal project called Mark Brunell to work out too, didn't happen..

The point is that Gibbs has been wrong in the past, and to me if he goes with Brunell even if its because he thinks Brunell will give him the best chance to win, I'm willing to wager the 2005 season he'll be wrong again....

I dont' doubt Gibbs desire, I doubt his decision making skills at the quarterback situation and I think he's been biased ever since Brunell drove his cunvulsing ass to a hospital to tell you the truth. Mark is a awesome guy, the kind of guy you want to see win, and I think those things combined with Gibbs past quarterback philosophy are working against the betterment of the team, I understand why and how Gibbs has arrived at the decision it looks like he's going to make, I just don't agree at all... and am dreading the 2005 season under Mark's arm.


For one thing, we can ALL see that MB's arm of 2005 is NOT the arm of 2004.

And, I, as a fan, looking in, no matter HOW MUCH I THINK I KNOW, have to believe Gibbs sees something in the everyday matter of play that I just DO NOT SEE.

He named PR the starter last year.........and yet...drafted a qb.

He started PR in every pre season game and game 1.

The "neck sprain" may be worse than we thought.

Yes, I know PR said he was ready to go back in......however, AREN'T YOU GLAD PR was able to rest the remainder of the game and NOT be out there where he might have sustained another hit? Don't you realize the Bears would be lying in wait to give him another hit like that?

If MB does start Dallas, I believe it will be who Gibbs thinks gives us the best chance.

Blondie

[Tulane Skins Fan]

The point keeps being made that Gibbs has not named Brunell the starter. That might be true, but he also refused to name Ramsey the starter even if he is healthy. That in itself is unfair.

first of all, you don't lose your job due to injury. Thats the way it has always been. Second of all, Brunell has looked horrible in ten games now. Why can't Gibbs support Ramsey? That is the question that should be asked again and again

[TheLongshot]

The point keeps being made that Gibbs has not named Brunell the starter. That might be true, but he also refused to name Ramsey the starter even if he is healthy. That in itself is unfair.

Unless he wants to keep Parcells guessing who is going to start.

Note, he doesn't need to say publicly who is going to start.

Jason

[jimster]

Unless he wants to keep Parcells guessing who is going to start.

Note, he doesn't need to say publicly who is going to start.

Jason


I thought about that during the game yesterday. - Now Dallas has more to prepare for.

[CrazyZeb]

Zeb, have you read or heard one iota of information from anybody associated with this team that even begins to hint that Patrick is gonna be playing on Monday night?

He got lit up, it was an illegal hit, a dirty hit, the guy has guts, he got up, shook it off, and said he was ready to go, Jesus, he survived two years of Spurrier, everybody knows he could survive one dirty hit...

My point is Gibbs didn't want to put Patrick in, because he was itching to see what Brunell could do, and Patrick being shaken up gave him the chance to do it.

If I'm wrong here, I will eat crowe gladly, I'll be glad to eat it beacause I'll be a happy camper that I don't have to watch Brunell throw the 2005 season short and out of bounds like he did 2004.
I wouldn't put Peyton Manning back in after that hit. A strained neck and two black eyes. He sat out the rest of his game for his own good.

[Dead Money]

:yawnee: :yawnee: :yawnee:

[Blondie]

:yawnee: :yawnee: :yawnee:


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Exactly.

Blondie

[CrazyZeb]

I dont' doubt Gibbs desire, I doubt his decision making skills at the quarterback situation and I think he's been biased ever since Brunell drove his cunvulsing ass to a hospital to tell you the truth.
This, among other things, show's your stupidity.

[dchogs]

i agreed with what gibbs did during the game. what nfl player wouldn't say, "i'm okay coach, put me in" ? i know i always try to get back into games that i shouldn't. ramsey is a competitor and wanted in... despite being cleared by medical staff, that may not have been the right decision. gibbs played it safe so that pat wasn't lost for the season.

i'll trust gibbs here. i hope pat plays because his arm makes the whole field available. at the same time, he also has a tendency to turn the ball over a lot.

[herrmag]

The point keeps being made that Gibbs has not named Brunell the starter. That might be true, but he also refused to name Ramsey the starter even if he is healthy. That in itself is unfair.



Last time I checked, Ramsey had an injury, and Gibbs said "we'll see how Patrick is". If he's injured, he's not starting. And as far as "unfair" goes, tough. If Ramsey would just have a freaking great game for once, there wouldn't be a controversy. The problem is, both our QB's pretty much suck, so Gibbs gets to choose the lesser of 2 evils.

[TheSteve]

I wouldn't put Peyton Manning back in after that hit. A strained neck and two black eyes. He sat out the rest of his game for his own good.

Where are you getting two black eyes from?

[fansince62]

good post Blondie..........I think he wil land up starting PR....but...in the end...it's JG's team to coach. It's his decision what personnel best fit his demands.....I'm only now beginning to understand the import of the JC draft. While I'm one who prefers immediate results....it is clear he is reshaping the taam - and that his efforts are working. Guess we all have to bite the bullet and go along.

btw...nice open field tackle by Rock. I take back everything I said in his regard. Hope he gets into the game Monday.

[CrazyZeb]

Where are you getting two black eyes from?
Did you not see them? 56" tv in high def, they were plain as day. :)

[Blondie]

good post Blondie..........I think he wil land up starting PR....but...in the end...it's JG's team to coach. It's his decision what personnel best fit his demands.....I'm only now beginning to understand the import of the JC draft. While I'm one who prefers immediate results....it is clear he is reshaping the taam - and that his efforts are working. Guess we all have to bite the bullet and go along.

btw...nice open field tackle by Rock. I take back everythingnch I said in his regard. Hope he gets into the game Monday.

He did make a great tackle, didn't he!! I will relay your message.

He works hard.....and I also hopes he gets into the game Monday. I will be sitting right behind the Redskin bench......so EVERYONE anywhere near there will know he should get in!!

:laugh:

Blondie

[AJ_Skins]

The point keeps being made that Gibbs has not named Brunell the starter. That might be true, but he also refused to name Ramsey the starter even if he is healthy. That in itself is unfair.

first of all, you don't lose your job due to injury. Thats the way it has always been. Second of all, Brunell has looked horrible in ten games now. Why can't Gibbs support Ramsey? That is the question that should be asked again and again

Seriously...whatever it is that causes the media, some fans, and apparently Coach Gibbs to keep treating Ramsey like a red-headed stepchild...I don't get it. Even Darryl "Moose" Johnston (former Cowboy) and Terry Bradshaw (no fan of Snyder) were like "what the hell is with these people treating Ramsey like a piece of crap?" yesterday. It's got to be something against him personally, but I can't figure out what it is. Other QBs who have had less success than he has, played worse, and had more playing time are given the benefit of the doubt, and he gets trashed for no clear reason. The team has only been put securely in his hands for one extended stretch, at the start of 2003 under Spurrier, and that's when he got beaten to death. Even so, he put up some pretty good numbers during that period of time, and did not lose us games...Spurrier took care of that.

None of it makes any sense from a football perspective, because it is absolutely clear that Brunell is too old, and Campbell is too young to carry the team anywhere. Ramsey is all the team has this season. Even if he had played worse than he actually has, it's suicidal to handle him the way he's getting handled. So I go back to the fact that it has to be something personal. Something where people are willing to see the team lose rather than see Ramsey succeed. In the case of Coach Gibbs, I know exactly what the reason is (if he does go to Brunell): he wants to prove he was right to sign Brunell. In the case of the fans and the media though, I don't get it at all...

[Bonez3]

As I listened to the post game interview on Redskins.com (awesome) I felt even more confident in the decision.

He stated it pretty rational- at that point in the game why sub a possibly not 100% QB for one that is warm and working 'effectively'.

I'm sure PR will get a chance to lead this team again- I know Gibbs will- but when he's sure he's ready. Nothing to sweat yet- let it play out.

Right now he, IMO, is portraying what a competent, insightful coach should do.

BE MORE WORRIED ABOUT HALL!!!!!!!!!

[TheLongshot]

None of it makes any sense from a football perspective, because it is absolutely clear that Brunell is too old, and Campbell is too young to carry the team anywhere.

Clear to you and me perhaps, but not to a signifigant portion of this board, who thinks Brunell is all we need to go to the promised land.

I think it comes from having too many bad QBs over the years, and the impatience of wanting to win now.

As I said before, once you give the starting job to Brunell on a non-injury basis, you are basically saying that Ramsey isn't the answer here. Unfortunatly, unlike the Brunell fans here, I don't think we will be that much better with Brunell starting. So, let Ramsey get the snaps, and maybe he can develop here, rather than someplace else.

Jason

[Blondie]

Clear to you and me perhaps, but not to a signifigant portion of this board, who thinks Brunell is all we need to go to the promised land.

I think it comes from having too many bad QBs over the years, and the impatience of wanting to win now.

As I said before, once you give the starting job to Brunell on a non-injury basis, you are basically saying that Ramsey isn't the answer here. Unfortunatly, unlike the Brunell fans here, I don't think we will be that much better with Brunell starting. So, let Ramsey get the snaps, and maybe he can develop here, rather than someplace else.

Jason

Just so there is NO mistake on YOUR part, I do NOT believe MB will lead me to the promised land.

I DO, HOWEVER, believe that I will get there with Gibbs and the decisions he makes for this team. I may NOT like the decisions, or understand them at the time, but then again...I am NOT one of the staff making the decisions.

This is a process......and, in my belief, Gibbs is methodically getting us to said promised land.

Blondie

[redskin81]

For one thing, we can ALL see that MB's arm of 2005 is NOT the arm of 2004.

And, I, as a fan, looking in, no matter HOW MUCH I THINK I KNOW, have to believe Gibbs sees something in the everyday matter of play that I just DO NOT SEE.

He named PR the starter last year.........and yet...drafted a qb.

He started PR in every pre season game and game 1.

The "neck sprain" may be worse than we thought.

Yes, I know PR said he was ready to go back in......however, AREN'T YOU GLAD PR was able to rest the remainder of the game and NOT be out there where he might have sustained another hit? Don't you realize the Bears would be lying in wait to give him another hit like that?

If MB does start Dallas, I believe it will be who Gibbs thinks gives us the best chance.

Blondie

Exactly. I dont think hes sold on either of them.

[matty dread]

Has Gibbs actually made an official statement yet today??

[flexxskins]

Gibbs won 3 superbowls because he always made the wrong choices, he had grudges against players and played favorites... :paranoid: :laugh: Exactly. Damn I wish people would just close their NFL, "HALL OF FAME COACHING" experienced mouths and let coach Gibbs lead this team.

[TheLongshot]

Just so there is NO mistake on YOUR part, I do NOT believe MB will lead me to the promised land.

I DO, HOWEVER, believe that I will get there with Gibbs and the decisions he makes for this team. I may NOT like the decisions, or understand them at the time, but then again...I am NOT one of the staff making the decisions.

This is a process......and, in my belief, Gibbs is methodically getting us to said promised land.

I do understand what you are saying, Blondie. It wouldn't be the first time Gibbs won with judicious use of two QBs.

Others, tho, don't see it like that. They gotta take sides.

Personally, I don't see a reason to remove Ramsey, or anything from Brunell that says that he would be a better choice. Ultimatly, tho, that's up to Gibbs.

Jason