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Fred Jones
September-26th-2005, 11:12 AM
Philosophical debate rages in GOP
ROBERT NOVAK
http://www.suntimes.com/output/novak/cst-edt-novak26.html

Rep. Mike Pence, a 46-year-old former radio talk show host from eastern Indiana serving his third term in Congress, is chairman of the conservative Republican Study Committee. He has tried hard to cooperate with the regular House Republican leadership rather than confront it. So, he could not have been happy last Tuesday when he found himself in a closed-door auto-da-fe with GOP leaders as the inquisitors and Pence as the heretic.

Pence and the RSC's heresy was to propose that massive federal outlays resulting from Hurricane Katrina be offset by reduced spending elsewhere. Specifically, they requested offsets to cut highway projects earmarked by individual House members, and a delay in implementing President Bush's new Medicare prescription drug subsidy. The negative reaction by the leadership was reflected when Pence, offered a seat at a later meeting, explained that he would be more comfortable standing because House Speaker Dennis Hastert had just tanned his hide.

Neither Bush nor congressional leaders will tolerate tampering with the drug subsidy, the president's least popular initiative among conservatives. While the White House would be happy to see some highway pork eliminated, the House leaders absolutely refused. At stake here is a basic disagreement over the philosophy of government within the Republican Party as it nears the end of its 11th year controlling the House of Representatives.

Hastert believes it is not just the privilege but the duty of a House member to deliver federal projects to his constituents. Many younger conservatives could not disagree more, but most -- like Pence -- are loyal Republicans who are loath to criticize their leaders. An exception on the RSC to such reticence is 42-year-old Rep. Jeff Flake of Arizona, who like Pence ran a conservative think tank before entering Congress.

Self-limited to three terms ending next year, Flake has acted as though there is no tomorrow from his first day in the House in January 2001. He, along with Pence, was one of only 25 Republicans to vote against the drug subsidy in 2003. Flake believes big government is addictive. "The leadership hooks the new members when they come into Congress," Flake told me, "and they stay hooked."

Pence was far more discreet in Tuesday's session with his party's leadership, but that did not save him a going-over, led by two powerful committee chairmen: Rep. Don Young (Transportation Committee) and Rep. Bill Thomas (Ways and Means Committee). The harshest treatment of Pence, however, was administered by House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, who does not like his rank- and-file members depicting a free-spending Republican Party.

There was more of the same from the leadership at Wednesday's closed-door House Republican Conference. Pence was not asked to speak on behalf of the RSC, and he did not volunteer.

But later Wednesday, RSC members in a press conference unveiled Operation Offset, an attempt to cut earmarks and reduce the drug subsidy bill. Pence offered to delay his $26 million highway earmark for Muncie and Anderson in eastern Indiana. Rep. Jeb Hensarling, a 48-year-old second-termer from Texas, similarly would be willing to delay $16 million for roads in Mesquite. Flake is a rare congressman who asked for no earmarked highway funds for his district (though it did not keep him from re-election last year with 79 percent of the vote). Young is the grand champion earmarker, with more than $1 billion in the highway bill for projects in his state of Alaska.

The beleaguered conservatives see all this spending leading inexorably to a tax increase, which would redistribute the tax burden to the disadvantage of the successful and threaten an economic recession. Barry Goldwater long ago assailed Dwight D. Eisenhower for presiding over a "Dime Store New Deal." That stinging rebuke no longer would be appropriate for today's Republicans. They outdo Democrats on pork and are in the same ballpark on entitlements. Even Katrina and now Rita do not restrain them.


The hypocracy that is many members of the Republican party is just amazing. The tax and spend Democrats have nothing on some of the Republicans and nothing more than the Reps from Alaska. Why is 1 billion of my tax dollars going there? Build it themselves or go without it.

Ignatius J.
September-26th-2005, 11:25 AM
I do wonder though about this cut in medicare to fund katrina. Why should money go to these people who did nothing themselves to deserve it instead of other people who did nothing to deserve it?

Help the poor sick or help the used to be rich displaced... I'm not sure I understand the point of that.

wskin44
September-26th-2005, 11:36 AM
You have your choice. Tax and Spend Democrats or Borrow and Spend Republicans. Notice what they have in common?

Most of us have credit cards. How we manage those cards is fundamental to our own personal finances. One of the primary benefits to having a credit card is to handle unplanned expenses, car repair, travel for family emergencies etc. One of the things that I was warned about when I first got a card was to not use them for consumables, groceries and gas etc.

The federal government has borrowed money for short term basics for years and now that there is a crisis they are scrambling around trying to figure out how to pay for it. Don't worry, the Chinese and rich Arabs are perfectly willing to loan us the money. For a price of course.

Sarge
September-26th-2005, 12:39 PM
I do wonder though about this cut in medicare to fund katrina. Why should money go to these people who did nothing themselves to deserve it instead of other people who did nothing to deserve it?

Help the poor sick or help the used to be rich displaced... I'm not sure I understand the point of that.

Didn't you hear all the poor people on the news from New Orleans? They DESERVE that money for all the years whitie has kept them down. :doh:

wskin44
September-26th-2005, 12:48 PM
Sarge you might have missed the thread about the $250 Billion that Louisiana politicians and business interests are asking the Federal Government to hand them. Don't you worry your pure white little heart about the white folk. They are lining up to get their share too.

Destino
September-26th-2005, 12:49 PM
Didn't you hear all the poor people on the news from New Orleans? They DESERVE that money for all the years whitie has kept them down. :doh:

I don't know about the people alive today, but I can say for certain that the people that did deserve to get paid never were. There was certainly a great deal of abuse in this country and a lot of people made a great deal of money because of it. They never received justice at all and the families that benefitted from their role in racist practices have never been made to do anything to right that wrong.

People in the US hate to think of the role played by wealth passed down from generation to generation. We like to pretend that all of us are unaffected by the economic conditions we were born into. While the US has more upward mobility then most of the world, this belief that family wealth plays no role is simply wrong.

But this is not the topic of this thread...so sorry heh.

Art Monk Fan
September-26th-2005, 12:53 PM
You have your choice. Tax and Spend Democrats or Borrow and Spend Republicans. Notice what they have in common?
I said it in another thread and I'll repeat it here:

Nothing will change until the first politician loses an election because he/she brought home too much pork.

Sarge
September-26th-2005, 12:58 PM
Sarge you might have missed the thread about the $250 Billion that Louisiana politicians and business interests are asking the Federal Government to hand them. Don't you worry your pure white little heart about the white folk. They are lining up to get their share too.

Nope, sounded off there too

flyingtiger1013
September-26th-2005, 01:02 PM
I said it in another thread and I'll repeat it here:

Nothing will change until the first politician loses an election because he/she brought home too much pork.


Bingo!

Two words: Robert Byrd

Predicto
September-26th-2005, 01:05 PM
You gonna believe this democratic propaganda put out by this liberal Bob Novak? :silly:

Prosperity
September-26th-2005, 01:13 PM
"Hastert believes it is not just the privilege but the duty of a House member to deliver federal projects to his constituents"

pork is a duty?

Sarge
September-26th-2005, 01:16 PM
Hastert is probably one of the worst House leaders in history

wskin44
September-26th-2005, 01:27 PM
"Hastert believes it is not just the privilege but the duty of a House member to deliver federal projects to his constituents"

pork is a duty?

"Pork! It's what's for dinner!"

Denny Hassert

Riggo-toni
September-26th-2005, 01:30 PM
One more reason I hate Hastert.

jamiroguy1
September-26th-2005, 01:31 PM
Sarge you might have missed the thread about the $250 Billion that Louisiana politicians and business interests are asking the Federal Government to hand them. Don't you worry your pure white little heart about the white folk. They are lining up to get their share too.

yep, 80% of 1.5 billion allocated by congress going to no bid contracts...aka whitey.

Art Monk Fan
September-26th-2005, 01:46 PM
Hastert is probably one of the worst House leaders in history
"Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely." -- Lord Acton

Joe Sick
September-26th-2005, 10:03 PM
We have allowed pretty much open-ended spending on the war in Iraq, putting it on our kid's credit cards.

However, when it comes time to spend at home, we have to cut benefits or the people of NO are treated like welfare queens? WTF?

Shouldn't rebuilding our own country be more important than rebuilding another? If we go into debt on anything, shouldn't it be for our own people?

Why aren't the same people that are saying "NO should get nothing" saying "the Iraqis should get nothing?" It makes no sense.

Sarge
September-26th-2005, 10:27 PM
We have allowed pretty much open-ended spending on the war in Iraq, putting it on our kid's credit cards.

However, when it comes time to spend at home, we have to cut benefits or the people of NO are treated like welfare queens? WTF?

Shouldn't rebuilding our own country be more important than rebuilding another? If we go into debt on anything, shouldn't it be for our own people?

Why aren't the same people that are saying "NO should get nothing" saying "the Iraqis should get nothing?" It makes no sense.


Mos tof NO was already welfare queens. Now they just want more

Joe Sick
September-26th-2005, 10:37 PM
Mos tof NO was already welfare queens. Now they just want more

No mention of the Iraqi welfare queens, I see.

That just seems hypocritical to me, caring more about foreigners than own our countrymen. I guess we only foot the bill after we bomb a place.

Where was this conservative outrage over Iraq spending, on a far more dubious cause?

Joe Sick
September-26th-2005, 10:51 PM
Could this be why military types don't mind the spending in Iraq, but are dead set against Katrina relief?

From that liberal rag, the Navy Times.
http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1117445.php

GOP lawmakers propose cuts to offset Katrina costs

By Rick Maze
Times staff writer

A group of House Republicans have proposed a plan to offset the costs of relief and rebuilding after Hurricane Katrina that includes trimming military quality-of-life programs, including health care.

Possible sources of funding cuts to free up money for Katrina relief include reduced health benefits, consolidation of the three military exchange systems and the closure of the military’s stateside school system.

...

Their offset list includes three provisions aimed at military quality-of-life programs:

• Service members would be offered cash if they are willing to accept reduced health care benefits for their families. “The less comprehensive plan would encourage individuals to be more cost-conscious when purchasing health care products by including deductibles, co-payments and a maximum annual out-of-pocket expenditure limit,” according to a written explanation provided by the study group. Reduced health care benefits could save $2.4 billion over 10 years.

• The three separate military exchange systems could be consolidated, saving up to $1.9 billion over 10 years, the study group says. The Army and Air Force share an exchange system, AAFES, while the Navy and Marine Corps have their own systems. “Consolidating … would eliminate inefficiencies from duplicative purchasing, different personnel departments, warehouse and inventory systems and management headquarters while retaining the current ability for service embers and their families to receive a wide selection of goods at a low price,” the statement says.

The Pentagon has studied the idea of exchange consolidation for years but has been unable to overcome bureaucratic obstacles and opposition from some service officials and industry groups. Several studies of the issue also have raised questions about how much money would be saved.

• The stateside system of elementary and secondary schools for military family members could be closed, saving $788 million over 10 years, the study says.

“This provision would phase out these domestic schools over time and shift these military children into the local public school systems,” the study group says.

The Pentagon also has been studying this idea, but has faced strong opposition from parents of children attending the schools because public schools are seen as offering lower-quality education.

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As you may recall, it was Tom DeLay who said before the Iraq invasion "Nothing is more important in the face of a war than cutting taxes." Apparently to the Republicans, nothing is more important in the face of a war AND massive destruction to the homefront than cutting taxes either.

:doh: