WTF does Joe Bugel do?

[Warhead36]

Seriously, we gave the OL a free pass in 03 because Kim Helton was supposedly a terrible coach.

A free pass in 04 because Jansen was out and the C sucked.

Now? What are the excuses now?

It's the players AND the coach in my view. Bugel isn't doing ****.

[JMac]

Listening to Bugel with Kelly Johnson, it is blowing my mind he makes no mention of his O-Line sucking! This bafoon just watch the same game? Unreal!!


Update: I was glad to hear him call out the defense and mentioning that we have no pass rush. Sorry Greg Blache, your comments this week have been called out.

[RedskinzOwnU]

i have to say he's been rather unimpressive. it's not like he doesn't have good players at his disposal. I love bugel but we might have to let alf go in the offseason, or at least bring in someone to help him since its likely that gibbs will never let bugel go - kinda like the way musgrave is a "QB coach" but we all know he's helping gibbs and breaux with the offense.

[scruffylookin]

One thing we know he doesn't do.......he sure hasn't taught Jon Jansen how to pass protect. :) :(

[Skins11]

Brunell is running for his life back there... A sack on the last play of the game... Ugh. I was thinking at least Jansen should have held the dude to prevent the sack.

[Drex]

Considering the talent we have on this offensive line, this unit is underachieving to say the least.

[TheCoach22]

He makes up nicknames that are not as good as the originals. He makes excuses for the name players, and picks on Derrick Dockery, who is actually playing decent football. The only think I can say in his defense is that most of our plays are slow in developing... but the reality is that is simply an excuse... I have to agree with the assesment that he has done a poor job and encourage the Danny to ink Russ Grimm to a fat deal in the offseason.

[cscmtp]

i agree, our O Line has been underachieving. big time. Brunell is running for his life on most plays. And Ramsey, if he were still our starter, he'd already been knocked out for the year. I hope they can fix things and fast. Or make this a priority in the off season.

[aREDSKIN]

Obviously not too much.

[Clark84]

I get sick and tired of him calling out other units or players. Focus on calling out your own guys, right now they are the most inconsistent bunch on the team.

[Redskin4ever]

Remember when this happened in '03, we and most of the media ripped Spurrier because our tight ends were blocking their best pash rushers. Well, I have noticed the same thing this year. Someone needs to be held accountable for the poor schemes that are being run.

[fansince62]

well....ahemmm........same players different coaches......what strikes you as being the constant? where do yuo think the problem really lies?

[Danny Montana]

Many of our coaches have shown that they have accountability issues. It is really frustrating to see.

Guys like Bugel, Blatche, and Williams are frequently dodging blame in the post game pressers. For as much as they say they want the players to be accountable for their actions, they need to look in the damn mirror.

[Riggo-toni]

One thing I think is certain - our OL PLAYERS are not nearly as good as we like to believe.

[RIDETHEWALRUS]

Seriously, we gave the OL a free pass in 03 because Kim Helton was supposedly a terrible coach.

A free pass in 04 because Jansen was out and the C sucked.

Now? What are the excuses now?

It's the players AND the coach in my view. Bugel isn't doing ****.

Wow, I am in the same boat as you man in wondering what Bugel does. The thing is we haven't seen what he does. I never got to watch the HOGs and truly understand their greatnesss, but many here have.

Criticize him if you like, but I have faith in the best offensive line coach to ever grace this organization with his presence.

Unfortunately I fear we may have to wait 1 more year to understand his greatness.

[Seabee1973]

The hogs would knock the defense off the line literally for about 3 yards almost every running play.

[Seabee1973]

The problem with this line is there is to much of a mixture of personell. I believe the skins need to take a good hard look at there offensive line especially the tackles and draft a trey Johnson clone

[Spaceman Spiff]

Many of our coaches have shown that they have accountability issues. It is really frustrating to see.

Guys like Bugel, Blatche, and Williams are frequently dodging blame in the post game pressers. For as much as they say they want the players to be accountable for their actions, they need to look in the damn mirror.


Well said.

[Leonard Washington]

i never liked bugel...he comes across as a loud mouth ass who loves to exaggerate. kudos to those who pointed out that he never calls out the oline but loves to spout hate about players he doesn't coach. how about updating your smash mouth running schemes for clinton portis? if you are updating them, why is it taking you 2 years to do it? how about keeping track of a team's best pass rusher? how about YOU taking some blame like gibbs does?

[AJ_Skins]

It's not the players or the technique, it's the blocking schemes that are occasionally not working. Don't know how much of that is on Bugel and how much is on the other coaches.

[Capt'n Obvious]

I get sick and tired of him calling out other units or players. Focus on calling out your own guys, right now they are the most inconsistent bunch on the team.

Amen to that, he needs to worry about the O-line not doing their jobs, let Williams and Blache take care of the D. :helmet:

[P007]

Brunell is running for his life back there... A sack on the last play of the game... Ugh. I was thinking at least Jansen should have held the dude to prevent the sack.

You say that, But Burnell's pocket presence isn't the best. Hell I seen at least 4 times where he rolled right into a hit or sack. As a experienced QB he should know his way around the pocket a little better.

[Leonard Washington]

You say that, But Burnell's pocket presence isn't the best. Hell I seen at least 4 times where he rolled right into a hit or sack.

:laugh: it seems like all qbs do it. it must be something they teach qbs in youth football: run right AT the guy to avoid the sack. maybe they think the defender will be shocked you are running right to them and miss the tackle?

[DEFENSEGURU]

Considering the talent we have on this offensive line, this unit is underachieving to say the least.

What talent. What you see is what you get. They are an average bunch, and Randy Thomas is EXTREMELY overpaid as well as our 2 defensive tackles.

[s0crates]

WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?!?! You guys are bailing on Buges?!? You have got to be kidding me.

The line has made major strides since the Spurrier era. They were the worst line in football 2 years ago. Now they have a respectable running game and are improving in pass protection. They still have a ways to go, but have made progress under Buges watchful eyes.

They are a microcosm of the whole team. Inconsistent but improving. Remember, we were 3-7 at this point last year. And lets not even think about the year before that. Now they are 5-5 and playing meaningful games in headed into December. If this trend continues they'll be 7-3 at this time next year.

Everybody wants to run the coaching staff out and create more turmoil now that The Redskins have encountered some adversity. That's just a bad idea. The brief stability we've had under this staff's watch has created progress. They have shown considersable improvement but still need a little more time to get everything 100%. In all, they are doing a fine job.

[s0crates]

oops. double post.:doh:

[sealskin]

Combination of both bad coaching and underacheiving (or possibly over rated). Thomas is not worth what we are paying him. He gets no push on his side. Jansen seems to be regressing although he does have the two broken thumbs to deal with. Rabach has been ok but nothing spectacular. Sameuls always seems to be hurt and Dockery just does not know how to use his size to his advantage. Lol, he does kind of look like Alf. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[FarEastBeast]

i have to say he's been rather unimpressive. it's not like he doesn't have good players at his disposal. I love bugel but we might have to let alf go in the offseason, or at least bring in someone to help him since its likely that gibbs will never let bugel go - kinda like the way musgrave is a "QB coach" but we all know he's helping gibbs and breaux with the offense.

Hopefully Gibbs will do what's best for the Redskins, not for his friendship. I don't know much of anything, but I do know you can never go home again, if you're a normal person that is.

[iwasdoinit]

This is on Gibbs because he knew he needed help on OL after last year and failed to address it at draft time. The Skins had a poor draft while other NFC East teams moved forward.

[skinsdude]

Where is our offensive line? Most people are blaming yesterdays loss on the defense. They only gave up 16 points and one touchdown. We can’t ask for much more than that. The real problem was turnovers (a constant) and absolutely no QB protection by the offensive line. Mark was running for his life on the last two drives. The last drive was the worst that I have every seen. He had at least two D lineman in his face the minute the ball was snapped. The offensive line is very inconsistent. We put up 35 on a very good Tampa defense, then can only muster 13 and no offensive touchdowns against a mediocre Raiders defense. I had hoped that after 10 games we would see some consistency and momentum building by this team but it appears that we are regressing.

[Fred Jones]

I agree with the blame being spread around. Some of it is Buges fault and some of it is the players. A coach needs talented players to win at this level. I like our linemen, but they are not top level players by any means. They have trouble handling pro bowl level pass rushers.

[Davethegolfguy]

They will be appearing on the next episode of Lost!!!

[36HAMMER]

Dockery has got to go

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Dockery has got to go

I actually think Dockery has been playing fairlly well. The tackle play has been poor.

BUt I agree with some of the complaints about Bugel. He is the coach most critical of other units, which is annoying.

But he is also the coach who seems most stuck in the past. Yes, we know Gibbs won three Super Bowls, we know the Hogs were legendary, we remember all those games...but it's 2005. None of these players (exept Ray Brown) remember those teams. Gibbs seems to understand that the present is what matters but Bugel seems to think that the Hogs-Era teams should permanently shield him from criticism.

[Davethegolfguy]

Bugel preaches about the old days and sucks up to Gibbs the rest of the week. Our run blocking schemes don't fit for Portis and the pass blocking sucks.

[skinsman4u]

Yeah, we have draft picks on the OL....and yesterday proved we have a combination of areas to address. Example we have $15m bonuses out ther but we can't move an inch! On that 4th and inches, we decided to punt and couldn't even get that right, I think we called time out or were we penalized 5yds, we lost the time of possession too; in the 4th QTR we had a time of poss: on one drive for 29secs and on another for 39secs. Defenses can't live like that, though ours did a helluva job--even though they were gased.

But that was pretty much it for the 4th QTR. Decisive points for any football game: turnovers , penalties and time of possession and today it seems like we lost all of them-28min and change on total time of poss;. You can't make a 1st down with inches to go and you don't have faith in your running game when you have no reason to abandon it.

If that was the case I would have got Nemo involved in the rotation. But You're throwing deep flies when there aren't working and you call a defensive play designed to cover a linebacker on a WR when ,again they hadn't ran affectively all day, and we knew they were going to throw it.

But it doesn't appear we're scouting the other teams alternate weapon when it comes to the passing game. Last week it was some guy name Shepard and this week it was Porter out of Coolidge H.S. in N.W. D.C. Porter maybe a little more prominent in thier passing game.

But we put a LB on him at a crusial moment and it killed us. Then the funky 4 couldn't even get it right (yeah, was called out on the run way during a comercial break and had to go back into the tunnel; every change of possession on a punt was pretty much a shortfield for them. I mean the punter didn't even average 40yds... That's H.S. Busch League...sh*%$#@~

I got one word to describe all that : wow! It seems as though we don't beat the teams we're suppose to and we play tough against the teams that are supposedly tough. Well, I still love my Redskins and I'm going down with them or up-- proudly. There's got to be some good I can find in this somewhere: oh there, Tony Stewart won the Nextell Cup Championship! But I'm still a Redskin through and through and some day the great pumpkins gonna rise again! Go Skins and Hail!

This is the 12th Man and that's all I know!

[mark327]

They will be appearing on the next episode of Lost!!!


So, is that who the Others are ?? :doh:

[SlobberKnockinFootball]

I was at the game and I was watching the O-line...if you had to grade them I'd give them a C-. Just because Portis had 70 yds by half time. They could not pass protect to save their lives yesterday. Our tackles sure do get beat an awful lot. I'll just leave it at that.

[33]

The common thread with our O-Line problems throughout the years have been the line. Not the coaches. Samuels and Jansen have been there for the long haul. Not the coaches.

Maybe we are putting blind trust into the wrong place.

[skinsman4u]

You say that, But Burnell's pocket presence isn't the best. Hell I seen at least 4 times where he rolled right into a hit or sack. As a experienced QB he should know his way around the pocket a little better.

Great observation! I mean in TB he had a stress point in the pass protection compromised and he fumbled. I mean don't get me wrong I like Mark and he's a great QB, but when you're moving a long that decsision making process in your head and you hit a choke point (a point where your experience tells you there's considerable risk ) like a LB/ or a speed DE bearing down secure the ball first. Look if you feel that stuff coming check down and get the hell out of there!

58 looks like he could have been scouted and Mark should have had a better fill for where the Raiders stress points are on the DL and what are there tendencies 2d and downside (2d and long) 2d and up side (2d and 4-5) and what are their adjustments when we hit a play that works more than once or do they make any.

What do they think we're doing on 3d and downside and 3d and upside. I mean you have to war game this stuff (analyses). Somebody be Sandiego's Defensive Coordinator and just war game the hell out of our offensive coordinator untill there's a check mate and you make those adjustments to your game plan. And do the opposite to prep our "D" game plan.

Historical data from 05s previous games. Who's Offense is similar to ours in the AFC West as far as concepts...well what are they doing to them defensively when they play em' ? Hell I don't care if you have to get a sand table with little football men and fabricate a football field. But you find out tendencies ,and that's how you game plan. Nah I'm not in the club house.

But I said it last week and I'll say it this week: There's a speedster over there or maybe not even a speedster just someone that hasn't been involved in SCs passing game but he's gonna show up on Sunday. But you need to find out who that is and look at what the possibilities are.


And that TB cover 2 that we play. It seems like Oakalnd scouted the hell out of it, was making an observation during the game looking for it.
And when they saw it they made adjustments. Told Collins to look for Marshall leaning on his heels and off the line of scrimage..Marshalls gonna take the middle of the field.

And when he does, let it go but look the safety off a little bit, because he'll safety (Taylor) be in support because he's the only one in support in the TB cover 2. So put it nice and up and over the shoulder. Porter you may have to make adjustments and find what shoulder its over. But look for it it will be over there. They game planned it, it even looks like they game planned.

Yeah, they had a pass play called. Collins looked directly at Marshall, at the snap, to see what the threat was and when Marshall Bailed (took the deep middle) he laid it right out there. Too easy. That's coaching, that's all that is. Giving your guys the maximum opportunity to succeed based on what you as a coach see!

And then game plan the hell out of how they use LT. They know we're gonna be keying on LT and we should be but there some alternates out there too. I've got to get off this site before the boss comes. I'm proud to work from 6 am to 4 sitting behind a desk until I retire making a comfortable and secure living-- very. Even if I'm in Kuwaite! But if you think I'm BSing go back and look at the film. You'll see it in the 1st half. We had a TB2 going on, as a mater of fact we were in it, looks like, when Marshall got his 1st interception....but we were in it later on too. I hope the Redskins are reading this because reading is uh fundamental and it don't hurt. Go Skins and Hell!

[RDSKNfaithfull]

Dock is the weakest link:doh: Biggest problem is inconsistency:doh: across the board from coaching on down. Buges isn't working with a innovative size advantage anymore. As a person Buges is a great coach and the guys like him, I would take a Mcnally over him in this day though.

[darrell1106]

I am soooo glad people are realizing the mediocrity and inconsistency of our O-line. When you read the papers, internet, and listen to sports radio, everyone mentions that Brunell has all the time in the world to pick a defense apart. Then against the 24th ranked defense you allow 2 sacks and like 5 rushed passes. I've always thought the protection had issues and mostly because they max protect with no one to throw the ball to.

And what's up with throwing deep posts down the field against perfect coverage. Where is the mid range passes down the middle of field where Oakland is extremely weak.

Man it's tough being a Redskin fan the last 10 years!

[Loyal2Washington]

Anybody that thinks the O-Line is really that good has not watched a lot of games. They have gotten better in running but Brunell is guarentteed to be sacked 2-3 times a game, and pressured every other pass attempt.
Samuels-Overrated in pass protection decent in run support.
Jansen-See above
Dockery-Overrated in both aspects of O-Line play and good for some penalties.
Rabach-Nice pick up but not an elite center, good enough to get the job done.
Thomas-Nice first two years but struggles at times this year. Probably a product of his teammates play setting in.

Overall we are not the the Hogs or the 91 line that dominated, we are a collection of over paid overrated high draft picks that survive on name.
Maybe it's not Bugel, you can only be as good a coach as your talent lets you be. It maybe time for some house cleaning in the off season, the last two weeks we had a chance to win only to see Brunell get stopped by his O-Line. It is inexcusable to allow a sack on the last play of the game, Jansen was beat one on one, how that is Bugels fault is beyond me when the Rock got stoned by a speed rusher that was pressuring Brunell all game.

:gaintsuck :eaglesuck :dallasuck

[bigredone]

Both Bugel's O Line and Williams D line are in decline.....Not a good thing for us......at a high level, i blame the coaoching and the play calling........I am starting to think the game has passed Gibbs by........I think he needs to come down hard on his coaching staff

[peachhaze]

Our offense sucks because Gibbs believes in max protection. In saying that, why in God's name is our qb being sacked, flushed out or hurried w/ 8 men in for protection? We send out 2 men to receive and wonder why Brunnell has no one to throw to.

[skin-em]

brunell could help a lot by changing his cadence, it's always the same, those d-line and backers could probably get off the ball with their eyes closed, all they have to do is listen for the "green forty green forty hut hut" and go

[RDSKNfaithfull]

brunell could help a lot by changing his cadence, it's always the same, those d-line and backers could probably get off the ball with their eyes closed, all they have to do is listen for the "green forty green forty hut hut" and go

Bad week to use this for a example he did change it a bit this week and got Oakland to jump on a couple hard counts.

Plus we really don't need more false starts on Samuels, Dockery and Co.

[skin-em]

really, I watched the whole game didn't see any encrochment or off side calls on the defense, but I agree on the false starts, good point

[Fifty Gut]

I saw Dockery having problems again yesterday

getting blown back in protection, and getting abused in run blocking

[The Full Monty]

If Alex Gibbs had been our line coach instead of Bugel, I guarantee this line would get RESULTS.

Brunell would not be harassed ---and I assure you Clinton Portis would lead the league in rushing AND TD's. Does anyone honestly contest this?

[Hollywood2k3]

I agree man, this is gettin' out of hand!

[skinsman4u]

But we max protect and still get ate up and yeah, its not like our OL is playing like they know the snap, they know the play, there's no intensity, no ferociousness. I remember when I was at Eastern H.S. we would be out there against Spingarn, Woodson H.Ss, Anacostia with 6,000 fans in the stands. Championships on the line and be straite battling. Aint none of that going on, where's the battles going on at.

I don't see no flippers, I don't see no blood. I don't see nothing going on in the OL. They should be straite taking charge, motivated and saying today on this and every play this is my area and my pads gonna be lower than yours and I'm gonna fire off the ball harder and harder and harder.

But I'm gonna either dominate or occupy you. Because this is my area of operation, my day and this is why I play. The OL is Busch league bulls%$#@&*. I mean where are the battles going on at. I don't see knowbody out there breaking sleds, I don't see no ferociousness. I remember an Oakland DL man jumped and batted the ball down ...remember that.

Oh he wouldn't have jumped no more. I would have straite punched him right where his diaphram joins and knocked the wind out of them. Hell people didn't even jump to block field goals and passes at the LOS when I was in H.S. Legal and all. Even in club ball , some people call it pop werner, but we would have our hand pads forearm pads and eveything.

We were like 9, 10, 11 yrs old out there straite hitting. Yeah, up there at #11 boys club in S.E. reporting broken collar bones and legs. I mean your an OLman in the NFL, man you got to be straite nasty! $15m bonuses and all kinds of stuff. Monday Night Live on Comcast and all that...yeah go head...soft as a MTF grape!

Then they got a nerve to look at you like you're crazy...man you got to be kidding that OL shouldn't even be in the league! If I was Joe Bugel I would put that OL in a cage, and say either you eat this or you don't eat s*&^%$#...yeah hose that OL off a few times.

They would be burying people and CP would be running wild. So you take that Univ of Michigan, Alabama and all the rest of that somewhere else because you're in the NFL and you're not nasty enough and it means nothing. Uh, Uh I don't believe in non of that Alabama, Michigan crap! Buckeyes too. Probably need to go to Howard University or hampton Florida A&M and get some peolple who come from nothing and appreciates the NFL or way out west and get some OL. I told the OL in training camp they were ate the hell up!

Thats why Sean Taylor, excuse me thats Mr Sean Taylor plays the way he do, straite nasty, because when he was in Gulliver Prep, pop werner, they were out there hitting. Yeah Sean will straite knock you out of the stadium. Thats why he hits the way he do right naaasty! Ryan Clark the same way a hitter right naaasty...matter of fact he hit Alstott so hard nocked Alstott to the right and LA missed him on the leap. If Ryan would have rapped him up he would have been 2yds short. Look at LA right naaasty. There's some other hitters on our "D" too, but these 3 guys here will stop and speak to you in a minute. Yeah humble as hell, very fan friendly and will kill you!

[318 SKIN]

i never liked bugel...he comes across as a loud mouth ass who loves to exaggerate. kudos to those who pointed out that he never calls out the oline but loves to spout hate about players he doesn't coach. how about updating your smash mouth running schemes for clinton portis? if you are updating them, why is it taking you 2 years to do it? how about keeping track of a team's best pass rusher? how about YOU taking some blame like gibbs does?

He is the guy that said someone needs to get his thumb out of his mouth (Ramsey) around the time Ramsey was benched. Totally irresponsible given the fact that PR never really said much and Gibbs actually said that he really appreciated PR's professionalism. Just a dumb comment from an arrogant idiot!