For those of you who gave up when 5-6, stay away!

[rawrage]

That's right, i'm calling you out and you know who you are. Those of you who completely gave up on the skins when they were 5-6, and then talked thrash about how sick and tired you were of the skins.... Stay away! You guys and ladies ran your mouths and were completely giving up at 5-6, while I said it wasn't over untill its over. And here we are in the playoffs.

You (clear weather fans) showed your true colors when you were crying at 5and6, now it's time to stay away. Only true skins fans need to be happy and celebrate.

To all you clear weather fans, DO NOT come jump back on the bandwagon just because the Skins did well and saved the season. You ran your mouths at 5-6, now stay away becuase I don't want to hear your crying in years to come when the skins do bad.

For those of you who didn't give up, you know who you are and this doesn't apply to you.

:eaglesuck

and GO BRUNELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[spanishomelette]

You're going about this the wrong way I think. The majority of those posting here never give up...Even when ole ball coach was here, but it was close then :laugh: and only then.

GO SKINS!

[NOVA2Tampa]

I figured we could still get in if we won the last 5 in a row...tough, but not impossible...and, lo and behold, they actually did it! HTTR!!! :cheers:

[cactitle]

Bump!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jimbo]

You've been around for a whole 22 posts so where do you get off telling ANYBODY to stay away?

I never gave up hope but I definitely thought we were finished at 5-6 and I'll be the first to admit that I said we weren't a playoff team. You know what? We weren't. At that point of the season, we were NOT a playoff caliber team and I was just hoping we'd finish 8-8.

You may have said it wasn't over at the time but with a whopping 22 posts, it looks to me like you haven't said squat since so you are in no position to call out anyone. I am so sick of these "LOOK AT ME" threads with member numbers over 40K trying to tell anyone they think will listen that they were "right" all along.

[MeNoRevs]

Another thread to tell us who are skins fans and who are not, Brilliant! /sam adams commercial

[Jimbo]

Another thread to tell us who are skins fans and who are not, Brilliant! /sam adams commercial

That's actually Guiness but I get the jist. :silly:

[SlinginSammy HOF '63]

Yeah, kind of hard to tell members to stay away. Especially those of us that posted here like crazy when we were agonizing through SOS or others here that posted through the last year of norvitis. Not to mention was a fan before you were born. I didn't give up nor did many people give up. Instead many were discouraged and thought 5 in a row would be a tough task.

[MeNoRevs]

That's actually Guiness but I get the jist. :silly:
Thats what I get for not drinking :(

[terpfan]

I have an idea... how about we not alienate part of our fan base for being frustrated with a team that has frustrated us for over a decade. I wasnt even one of the people "giving up" although I'm sure I said it was unlikely, as it was. This holier than tho attitude makes me sick. Can't we all just be happy for our team? Save the "you said we couldnt do it" line for the media and other teams, not for your fellow fans.

[SlinginSammy HOF '63]

Oh and, by the way. Here is the author's first ever post on this board after we fell to 5-6 on November 27th:

The season is over. The better teams have the better records. Washington seems to have the talent, but things aren't getting done. Same crap week in and out. Close games, comming up short. Having a big lead and giving the game away late. Something needs to be done.
link to post:
http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1882890&postcount=57

[spanishomelette]

Oh and, by the way. Here is the author's first ever post on this board after we fell to 5-6 on November 27th:

link to post:
http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1882890&postcount=57
OWN3D (...or something like that :laugh: )

[MeNoRevs]

Oh and, by the way. Here is the author's first ever post on this board after we fell to 5-6 on November 27th:

link to post:
http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1882890&postcount=57


Brillant! /Guinness


I got it right that time!

[MeNoRevs]

OW3NED (...or something like that :laugh: )
You even did the 3 for the e. You are on your way to be and elite h@x0rz

:D

[Major Harris]

ban him for stupidity.....he should've checked his own post history b4 calling anyone out!!!

[rdskn4eva]

You (clear weather fans) showed your true colors when you were crying at 5and6, now it's time to stay away.

"And I see your True Colors shining Thru!" -Cyndi Lauper.

LOL I had to. Sorry :laugh:

[spanishomelette]

You even did the 3 for the e. You are on your way to be and elite h@x0rz

:D
Yes...but I had to edit to get it right :doh: :laugh:

[Tazhog]

I've been a Redskins fan my whole life! I have lived in Utah my whole life... I recently found this website... partially due to my computer genius skills:)
Anybody that know me... Thinks Redskins, when they think about me... I have taken a pretty good amount of sh#@ from people over the years...

You know what... They didn't kick hard enough when we were down!!!
We are back!!!
Hell Yes!!!

Bandwagoners or not... I'll take all the Redskins fans I can get!!!

[SlinginSammy HOF '63]

I'm sure we've seen his last post on this thread. It's sort of like getting caught masturbating by your grandma or preacher. Never will show your face again after that.

[hoskins]

I don't agree with this definition of fair weather fan. For me a fair weather fan is someone who stops watching or caring about football when his team is 5-6, only to come back to football later. Or worse, someone who goes and starts rooting for a Colts instead.

Fans who are pissed off at 5-6 but KEEP WATCHING and caring and hoping things turn around are still fans, in my opinion. They are fans because they CARE what happens. You don't have to be an optimist to be a fan.

The only time this season I lost hope was when it looked like the team lost it's fight and didn't care (in NY). But that doesn't mean I stopped caring. And I didn't miss a play after that. Nor did I go a day without looking at redskins.com, this site, etc. this whole season. So does that mean I'm not a fan?

[hoskins]

Another type of fair weather fan are the guys who were wearing SB T-shirts back in 91 and couldn't even name 5 starting players. I'm talking about fans who had watched maybe 60 total minutes of football before that game. Or were Patriots fans before 91.

[Spaceman Spiff]

You've been around for a whole 22 posts so where do you get off telling ANYBODY to stay away?

I never gave up hope but I definitely thought we were finished at 5-6 and I'll be the first to admit that I said we weren't a playoff team. You know what? We weren't. At that point of the season, we were NOT a playoff caliber team and I was just hoping we'd finish 8-8.

You may have said it wasn't over at the time but with a whopping 22 posts, it looks to me like you haven't said squat since so you are in no position to call out anyone. I am so sick of these "LOOK AT ME" threads with member numbers over 40K trying to tell anyone they think will listen that they were "right" all along.

I totally agree.

Anyone who really thought we were playoff caliber after the debacles that were the Oakland, Denver and KC games is full of it.

And i'm also tired of the newbies with the look at me threads. its old.

[LiveStrongSkins]

:laugh: What a clown. Didnt even check his post history before posting this idiotic thread.

http://0wn3d.dk/owned/Mc-Own3d.jpg

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

I totally agree.

Anyone who really thought we were playoff caliber after the debacles that were the Oakland, Denver and KC games is full of it.

And i'm also tired of the newbies with the look at me threads. its old.

There was a post just as absurd by a mod that basically said the same thing, though the temporal context was different. It also told people to shut up.

I notice a slightly different reaction to the two threads. Prestige or credibility should only carry so far, really.

Anyways, I don't know if I've ever seen more ownage in a thread with one quote.

[MustangSteve]

You've been around for a whole 22 posts so where do you get off telling ANYBODY to stay away?


:laugh: hes ready to kick em off the bandwagon isnt he lmao.

[BossMayne80]

That's right, i'm calling you out and you know who you are. Those of you who completely gave up on the skins when they were 5-6, and then talked thrash about how sick and tired you were of the skins.... Stay away! You guys and ladies ran your mouths and were completely giving up at 5-6, while I said it wasn't over untill its over. And here we are in the playoffs.



.................................................. ........................


Shut the Hell up!!!

[The Batman]

I'll admit that I was a little displeased at 5-6. I was frustrated at our apparent inability to put away a lead in the fourth and the way we had been slighted by referees at every turn. However, believe it or not, even as close as I am to DC in South Carolina, the idiots at Fox rarely televise Skins games. So I think the difference between me personally and the fairweather fans is that every Sunday I sat out on the hood of my car, with no regard for weather, [ no pun intended ] and listened to the games with my new best friend, satellite radio. And I must say, being there the whole way is the best feeling in the world.

[MeNoRevs]

There was a post just as absurd by a mod that basically said the same thing, though the temporal context was different. It also told people to shut up.

I notice a slightly different reaction to the two threads. Prestige or credibility should only carry so far, really.

Anyways, I don't know if I've ever seen more ownage in a thread with one quote.

Some people where not supportive of Arts thread. But being a Mod, alot of people want to be liked by them.

Sometimes it doesnt matter what a Mod says, it could be, "The Redskins should move to Alaska" and some people would bow down and say its the greatest thread ever.

[thesubmittedone]

this is hilarious... almost feel bad for the guy. He sounded so excited...lol


I'll attempt it...

PWN3D. :cool:

[SkinsFTW]

Damn.

I saw this thread earlier and just disregarded it. He could have at least gone in and edited his first post because after his first couple he was saying that it isn't over yet.

[Jumbo]

You even did the 3 for the e. You are on your way to be and elite h@x0rz

:D


You guys are so...hip. :D

And as for the thread-starter's first post...well, like I say every now and then on here, you can't make this stuff up.

[36SKINS56]

Walking around the VA, MD, DC area...I see many fairweather fans with their brand new jerseys, sweatshirts and hats. I stick through the thick and thin (richie pettibone, norv, robiskie, ball coach anybody?) Thanks to those who have been doin the same and stickin with the team

[SkinsFTW]

Walking around the VA, MD, DC area...I see many fairweather fans with their brand new jerseys, sweatshirts and hats. I stick through the thick and thin (richie pettibone, norv, robiskie, ball coach anybody?) Thanks to those who have been doin the same and stickin with the team

Yeah man, after that Cowboy game I went to work and was asking everybody if they were a cowboy fan and, surprisingly, nobody at work were. Of over 300 people not a single one could be honest so I could give them some ****. If this was 1995 instead of 2005 I would go to work everyday and see 100 Star jackets being worn by all those "Fans"

[Califan007]

There was a post just as absurd by a mod that basically said the same thing, though the temporal context was different. It also told people to shut up.

I notice a slightly different reaction to the two threads. Prestige or credibility should only carry so far, really.

Anyways, I don't know if I've ever seen more ownage in a thread with one quote.
That's because the issues being brought up were different, even if the end suggestion was basically the same...This thread tries to castigate fans for daring to lose faith in the team during a rather frustrating and horrid mid-season swoon...the very type of swoon that characterized the Redskins teams for 12 of the last 13 years. It caused the perspective of those who were losing faith after a three-game losing streak (and going 2-6) to have a realistic amount of validity. Calling out those fans within the safe confines of hindsight (and a 5-game winning streak) reeks of immaturity and cowardice.

Art's thread, however, dealt with the barrage of people who let the emotion of an instant while in the middle of a game cause them to flood this site with disparaging, insulting and rude threads with some of the most tasteless and immature remarks aimed at anyone and everyone Skins-related...and this happened after the Skins had won four in a row and had already guaranteed its first winning season in six years. Both of those accomplishments were deserving of praise, and hardly the context for hurling around the hateful twaddle that was being shoveled out ad nauseum because *gasp* the Skins were down by 7 points. The jist of Art's thread, I felt, was that if you truly want to be a fan, try having faith in your team for more than one quarter before proclaiming to the world that the Redskins really do stink, and that their winning record and four-game winning streak are irrelevant in your eyes. At least the people who this thread is aimed at gave the Skins three games before losing faith.

[Redskinloyal_1]

I saw us 10-6 the whole year thought we would win 7 home games and like 3 or 4 road games. Didnt see us losing to the raiders thats for sure.

Also you doubted yourself in your own paragraph, for example "You guys and ladies ran your mouths and were completely giving up at 5-6, while I said it wasn't over untill its over." Is that not a statement with hesitation i think so.

And that guiness, sam adams mess up was classic.

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

That's because the issues being brought up were different, even if the end suggestion was basically the same...



Good analysis, califan. I'd say though that the initial post in the other was imprecise and as a result no different in form and function than this. Also, I'd argue that it's MORE understandable to be emotional in the heat of the moment (so long as you keep watching and keep hoping) than to give up when the team could still technically win 4-5 games and get in the playoffs.
Faith is a fuzzy concept, because I could easily point to the fact that someone continues to watch and hope and sweat and feel sick as an act of faith, even if the words that flood from their mouths or fingertips do not reflect it. It relies on an assumed omniscience to know what is in the hearts of fans and demonstrates something of a fragility of spirit to be so threatened or hurt by someone's emotional overreactions in an absolutely HUGE game where the team was playing poorly against a BAD team.

The misunderstandings occurred in that thread because the post lent itself to such. If it were clear, it would have been clearly understood and not challenged as it was. Later posts that seemed explication served to make it even less of a defined point. "Negativity" except for a very few posters who never show up when things are looking up is a fluid concept and an attempt to define it and draw distinctions between fans will fail as a theoretical construct. It's purely an emotional argument and not one based on solid taxonomical elements. ;)

I still maintain the reaction, other than this post being a bit more silly because of the LENGTH of time for hindsight, is different based on its origins. Furthermore, the actual amount of people who were guilty of what you mentioned (with no mitigation in their favor) is so small as to make that post unnecessary.

[Califan007]

Good analysis, califan. I'd say though that the initial post in the other was imprecise and as a result no different in form and function than this. Also, I'd argue that it's MORE understandable to be emotional in the heat of the moment (so long as you keep watching and keep hoping) than to give up when the team could still technically win 4-5 games and get in the playoffs. The misunderstandings occurred in that thread because the post lent itself to such. If it were clear, it would have been clearly understood and not challenged as it was. Later posts that seemed explication served to make it even less of a defined point. "Negativity" except for a very few posters who never show up when things are looking up is a fluid concept and an attempt to define it and draw distinctions between fans will fail as a theoretical construct. It's purely an emotional argument and not one based on solid taxonomical elements. ;)

I still maintain the reaction, other than this post being a bit more silly because of the LENGTH of time for hindsight, is different based on its origins. Furthermore, the actual amount of people who were guilty of what you mentioned (with no mitigation in their favor) is so small as to make that post unnecessary.
I didn't read the rest of the thread...lol...I just posted my one post and never went back to it (at least I don't think I did) :laugh:...I'll take your word for it on how that thread progressed, tho...sounds realistic.

[dcoles11]

Some people where not supportive of Arts thread. But being a Mod, alot of people want to be liked by them.

Sometimes it doesnt matter what a Mod says, it could be, "The Redskins should move to Alaska" and some people would bow down and say its the greatest thread ever.

So true. A MOD made a thread after the Arizona game saying because Brunell was quote "done" as far as his career that quote, "the Cowboys are going to kill us"

He did throw in facts and it was done in a muture way, it wasn't all, "Brunell sucks on my god we are so going to get beat, I hate Gibbs!" Wasn't like that at all.

But the replies to his thread were alot like this.

"I hate to say it, but I agree with you, we are going to get beat by the Cowboys :( "

The same exact post, which was just as mature in stating how Brunell was over the hill and the Cowboys would own u was made by a regular memeber.

The replies to his thread were more like this, "is it ok if we play the game anway? you're not a true Redskin fan, why don't you just quit watching and live us true fans alone!"

You can say it as mature and use as many facts as you want, if you aren't a MOD your negative comments are going to make you a untrue Redskin fan around here.

Hell you're being told to go away and never come back now because you questioned the future of a team that was 5-6 and had made the playoffs once in the previous 13 years.

Pretty amazing logic there.

[SlinginSammy HOF '63]

Obviously he never showed back up.

[RF4L]

Just because you get frustrated with the team doesn't mean you're not a fan.

Yeah, at 5-6 I was supremely bummed and cursed the team left and right.

Likewise, I did the same thing on Sunday when it was 17-7 Eagles.

However, I'm all better now.:D

;)

[Pourdanesh]

i have a bosox hat that my bro gave me when i was real young ... i'm not much of a baseball fan (tho i got pretty into the nats) but i just always liked the hat ...

after their ws win, i put it away ... i didn't want to contribute ...

not that i look down on all the new FANaticism, it's just funny how much sparkly new gear is out there ... (for those who doubt me based on my low post-count ... rest assured i've lived/died w/ the skins for quite some time, and have the grades to show it!!) HAIL

btw i feel very sorry for the OP

[bbuzz1962]

Look, would you have been man enough to post something like this if the season turned the other way? The truth was at 5-6 this team was not playing well at all. I can understand why people were frustrated, losing three games in a row making stupid mistakes etc etc. What happened is the team came together at the right time. Brunell, Portis, the offensive defensive line, and special teams. This team had the talent, and that is why people were so upset at the time. Give them a break. We had 6 years of not making the playoffs, and to be honest it didn't look good at the time. We were only one game from not making it again. I was ridiculed for agreeing with Boomer Esiason that we would run the table and make the playoffs. I am not going to rub it in their faces now, it was my opinion and they had a right to disagree. That is what makes this site such a great place for fans. When we lose sight of that, and start pounding on fans for their opinions, it becomes an ugly place. I prefer the great place, so find somewhere else to call out fans who were angry and had a right to be.

I say welcome back fans, we need you now, support this team as it is very special.

[Bostic Hog]

I say, the bigger the bandwagon, the better. Why shouldn't everyone get in this. Don't we all feel better with our team in the playoffs? I say, make room and let everyone on our party train to Detroit.


HTTR

[zoony]

I admit freely I gave up on this team when they were 5-6. But I never stopped being a fan, if that's what you're implying.


......

[jbooma]

Oh and, by the way. Here is the author's first ever post on this board after we fell to 5-6 on November 27th:

link to post:
http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1882890&postcount=57

we need an owned avatar or one of fair weather :laugh: :laugh:

unless he was calling himself out as well with this thread :silly:

[jbooma]

Some people where not supportive of Arts thread. But being a Mod, alot of people want to be liked by them.

Sometimes it doesnt matter what a Mod says, it could be, "The Redskins should move to Alaska" and some people would bow down and say its the greatest thread ever.

:silly: :silly:

[Jimbo]

I'm more than happy to let young master rawrage back on the bandwagon providing he doesn't call anybody out, doesn't say "I told you so" and, most important of all, doesn't sit where he can inhale the exhaust fumes. :silly:

[Mr. Nostril]

The person who wrote the original post in this thread needs to learn a thing or two about consciseness. He wrote 4 paragraphs and I still don't know what he means.

Do people who doubted the Redskins capability to make the playoffs this year, but still wanted, hoped and cheered for them to do so count as "clear-weather fans"? Because really they shouldn't.

Actually, if you really had no doubt that the Redskins would make the playoffs when we were 5-6, then I would say you are a delusional clear-weather fan. Because you really can't cheer, hope and have loyalty to a team that isn't going to do well? You've just fooled yourself into somehow believing that the future is always bright.

The truth is that 90% of teams in our situation 5 games ago would miss the playoffs, I'm thrilled we were able to defy the odds, but in no way did I expect us to.

[Bonez3]

Oh and, by the way. Here is the author's first ever post on this board after we fell to 5-6 on November 27th:

link to post:
http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1882890&postcount=57


WOW- Not about Rawrage either.

I had to read that whole thread. There was some serious hating going on. I understand it was the lowest point in our season, but dang.

The team underperformed, but you could see they were in all but one game every week, win or lose. THERE WAS NO ARGUMENT MADE THAT CLARIFIED WHY THE REDSKINS SEASON WAS DEFINETELY DONE.

I was shocked by such negativity, but some people are just like that.

[herrmag]

You've been around for a whole 22 posts so where do you get off telling ANYBODY to stay away?

I never gave up hope but I definitely thought we were finished at 5-6 and I'll be the first to admit that I said we weren't a playoff team. You know what? We weren't. At that point of the season, we were NOT a playoff caliber team and I was just hoping we'd finish 8-8.

You may have said it wasn't over at the time but with a whopping 22 posts, it looks to me like you haven't said squat since so you are in no position to call out anyone. I am so sick of these "LOOK AT ME" threads with member numbers over 40K trying to tell anyone they think will listen that they were "right" all along.

'nuff said

I honestly hoped, and hoped, and hoped, but didn't honestly think we'd do it. It wasn't likely, and I'm an "odds" kind of guy. However, I still stuck my rear in front of the couch, and watched every game, just like I do every year, even when we're out of playoff contention.

[herrmag]

Oh and, by the way. Here is the author's first ever post on this board after we fell to 5-6 on November 27th:

link to post:
http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1882890&postcount=57


Rawrage, you deserve a new avatar for this. Unbelievable. :laugh:

[Cdowwe]

Wow. Probably one of the worst OWNED things Ive seen in over a year.

[Mackdaddydean]

I think most of the people who "gave up" really didnt give up but we're so frustrated after the charger loss that they were venting and were sick and tired of losing. I am a part of this group. I thought we would probably go 6-10 or 7-9 after that loss and i made sure i let the ES board about it. I was pissed. But ya know what, I continued to watch every game every sunday. Its not that we are "clear weather fans" its just that we have endured so many awful games/seasons for the past 6 years that that kind of behavior is just a defense mechanism. I'm proud of you for being able to stay so positive. But just cause someone appeared to "give up" doesnt mean they actually did.

[Da_Truth]

The season is over. The better teams have the better records. Washington seems to have the talent, but things aren't getting done. Same crap week in and out. Close games, comming up short. Having a big lead and giving the game away late. Something needs to be done.

Ain't that a *****. You sorry peice of S*#@ . Get yo two faced ass off this board!

[Peregrine]

Please shut up. Seriously.

Fans of a team that havent had a winning season but once in the past 13-14 years, declaring their team wasnt going to make the playoffs when it was 5-6? WOW. Im shocked. Really. They must be fair weather... or maybe they are rational people.

Seriously SHUT UP ABOUT IT and stop declaring yourselves the almighty Gods of never failing to believe in the redskins. You were wrong the past 12 years, stop acting like jerks the one year you were right and ENJOY THE PLAYOFFS. Enjoy yourselves... really. At 5-6 I had high hopes and low expectations. I said we would have to run the table, and it was possible, but not probable. Now we are in the playoffs, im loving it. How bout you try enjoying it too.

[fmorris]

That was a tough three game stretch, and even my optimsism wavered momentarily. However, being optimistic (see sig) I was thinking if we could hold it close to .500 we could still have a shot down the stretch. Who would have known that it would be so tight in the NFC? The next two games were very winnable and that could create momentum. But, I was hoping that the team would find some sort of identity. I think Wilbon had mentioned it in his column that week and it made sense.

I would never had expected a five game win-streak to finish the season, and Portis and the D-bags to establish that identity. No one could have. In truth, I would have been happy with an 8-8 finish (as long as they continued to be highly competitive)...tickled pink with 9-7. How sweet it is.

[The Bounty Hunter #21]

with what happened in the game that we came back against the cowboys in week 2 i knew deep down inside that this team is capable of doin anything....it feels good to prove to media wrong and some fans...

[CGSKINS]

Check out mt previous post. I said we will get into the play-offs by winning five in a rowe

[DarrellGreenFan]

I continued to watch the Redskins even after they went to 5-6. Anybody who didn't and wanted to come back can, but they sure did miss a hell of a run.

I don't see what the problem is with a bunch of fair weather fans coming in. If they buy Redskins gear now, well that's more money for Dan Snyder to spend on free agents. As long as they don't defect to another team, I don't have a problem with them.

[herrmag]

FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO MISSED IT, READ THE FIRST PAGE. The entire page. It marks the thread starter as a fraud. He made a post when we were 5-6 specifically stating we were done. This thread should be shut down. Better yet, keep it open, so he doesn't pull this crap again.

[Ryman of the North]

so much stupidity, I used to think skins fans were for the mst part more intelligent than other football fans.
Bottom line is we havent sniffed the playoffs in a long time, our team worked hard and turned it around so lets just enjoy it rather than try to look all smart and stuff.

[MeNoRevs]

so much stupidity, I used to think skins fans were for the mst part more intelligent than other football fans.
Bottom line is we havent sniffed the playoffs in a long time, our team worked hard and turned it around so lets just enjoy it rather than try to look all smart and stuff.

huh? What in this thread has any implications that someone tried to look smart and stuff? The man was talking about bandwagoners....

[Ryman of the North]

while I said it wasn't over untill its over. And here we are in the playoffs.


:eaglesuck

and GO BRUNELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sounds an awful lot like a knowitall to me! along the lines of "Im so smart and you are not because I said we were gonna win."

[Omnishank]

Was going to agree with the poster until i read further,now i agree with the idea,pessimism has no place in being a fan-atic,especially of this team of long tradition..should single out the naysayers an send em over to the cowboy board (where they will then lose all hope an find a team with more pretty colors).If you want to post on a site called extreme an not consider yourself extremely confident in your team,theres the door and i hope you find the Brown or Lions and find out what a true fan is all about..otherwise jus wait till christmas to receive new gifts of a team you leach upon when they do well.