Philly

[SkinsTerps26]

so does anyone outside of philly think that mcnabb and company has a legit shot at gettin back to the top of the nfc east. i doubt they go 0-6 again. Whats your take on just this team?... once their 345 pro bowlers from 2004 return next season.

IMO with our current team & a free agent wr, rookie DE and new punter will put us right back in the playoffs for sure.

this isn't so much a poll obviously as what people know about philly. Im too lazy to research that on my own accord and i didn't see a thread like this

[kevinklein]

The NFC is going to be a hell of a tough division next year. As far as Philly goes...in my mind they're completely unpredictable.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I would be a little surprised if Philly wasn't a winning team again next year. I could see them in the 8-10 win range.

They will obviously be more like they were during the earlier stages of their run with McNabb, Westbrook, no great WRs, and a good D.

The difference between those seasons and next year is that the Redskins, Giants, and Cowboys have all improved somewhat.

[Eagle091]

not to bash your post, but it's not revelant, philly is looking to recover from injury and become an ELITE team again, not just a winning franchise. minus t.o., we are Basically the same team from the year before. burgess was never even a starter till the playoffs, and simon was wayy overweight to be a force. should be the same results as 2004 in my mind. I didn't see the nfc east getting better, I just saw the eagles have a crushing injury problem and unable to compete. Mcnabb is 27 and will be here for a long time. westbrook is even younger and with the rookie moats, we have legitimate depth at the position. free agancy will be very little this year. we may add a dt, de, or posession type receiver, but really, not much. all our players except runyan are signed long term, and we will have very little turnover.

[andyburd]

Philly's window of opportunity is over, they had their four chances. Everybody else is not going to sit around and not get better, while the Beagles heal.

[Bostic Hog]

not to bash your post, but it's not revelant, philly is looking to recover from injury and become an ELITE team again, not just a winning franchise. minus t.o., we are Basically the same team from the year before. burgess was never even a starter till the playoffs, and simon was wayy overweight to be a force. should be the same results as 2004 in my mind. I didn't see the nfc east getting better, I just saw the eagles have a crushing injury problem and unable to compete. Mcnabb is 27 and will be here for a long time. westbrook is even younger and with the rookie moats, we have legitimate depth at the position. free agancy will be very little this year. we may add a dt, de, or posession type receiver, but really, not much. all our players except runyan are signed long term, and we will have very little turnover.

Are you kidding me? ELITE? Not anytime soon. And the team isn't even CLOSE to being the same. You have no #1 WR, Jevon Kearse was absent (injury? I don't think so) and will never be the same as the old one, your TE situation is bad (LJ Smith has underperformed), Westbrook will always be injury prone, your young corners were WAY overrated (Shepphard and Brown) and will be burned deep for YEARS to come. Your defense was in the bottom half of the league in almost every category, you were at the bottom in sacks (only 6 teams with less) #21 in Rush D, need I continue? The coach is a HORRIBLE game day coach with no time management skills. Where do the Eagles begin rebuilding because that is the mode they are in.

I have no fear of the Eagles. Window shut.

[SkinsTerps26]

forget this post. i've lived with 3 eagles fans in college and seeing you choke has been very fun. I heard that exact same response. And to that i say... you are still the bottom dwellers in the nfc east until you win something. Skins/Boys/Giants 10 superbowls... philly 3 nfc championship losses. 2 superbowl losses. 2006, NFC east stadings. 1-skins, 2-giants, 3-boys, 4-eagles.

[Westbrook36]

Anyone who categorically says the Eagles window is shut or the Eagles will definitely be elite next year are obviously so afraid of the other side that they are desperately trying to convince themselves so.

I think they have a CHANCE to be VERY GOOD to ELITE depending on several things. Way too early to say now. I like the flexibility and opportunity that having such a high draft pick and multiple choices as well as 20-25 million in cap space but until things start happening, it's too early to say.

[Eagle091]

ok fellas, drink the skins kool-aid all you want. i don't blame you for that, I respect it. history has a way of repeating itself, and do you seriously think the windows shut when since 2000, mcnabb has had no #1 recievers to throw to. remember owens has only been here 1 year. it does seem longer doesn't it. before his number one was ....yes... james thrash, who is a special teams player, and still made the playoffs and the nfcc trhee years in a row. drink the kool-aid, but don't beleive your own bull crap, nobody else does.

[dockeryfan]

The Eagles have as much of a chance as anyone at this point.
But there are a lot of moves to be made, so lets see which ones they make.
If they make none and stick with the status quo, then they will struggle
Status quo =
Pinkston coming off injury
Koy and GQ at backup QB
Kearse as the aging DE with no one to spell him.
Runyan possibly leaving, will he stay or go?
LB Corps consisting of Trotter, some guy who plays air guitar, and Keith Adams (who won't be there because he was playing on a one year deal)
Artis Hicks as starting T?
No real TE to speak of since Chad left.
Talk to me after Free agency starts in March. Lets see what they do.

Personally, I think McNabb should be fine after the surgery, but that's another question mark.
To just say they will be an elite team just by showing up is crazy. I agree with Westbrook36 there.

[Redsk58417]

ok fellas, drink the skins kool-aid all you want. i don't blame you for that, I respect it. history has a way of repeating itself, and do you seriously think the windows shut when since 2000, mcnabb has had no #1 recievers to throw to. remember owens has only been here 1 year. it does seem longer doesn't it. before his number one was ....yes... james thrash, who is a special teams player, and still made the playoffs and the nfcc trhee years in a row. drink the kool-aid, but don't beleive your own bull crap, nobody else does.

"Kool-aid?" The Skins defense is some "Illusion?" The Skins as a team is not better to you? Wow! I'll tell ya what. Philly may be back to some extent, but the days of Philly winning the NFC East by Thanksgiving *ARE OVER!* The NFC East has a better staff coaching. So there are no more Chan Gailey's, Campo's, Spurrier's, or Fassels. It won't be "Business as usual" even if Philly is healthy. If you think that? Then its you that have been "Drinking the kool-aide."

[grimreaper36]

Here's the thing. No matter what the Eagles do the competition within the division has gotten stronger. The nfc east is no longer an automatic 6 wins for them. Both the 'Skins and Giants went from 6-10 to playoff teams. Depending on what the 'Pukes do this could become the most brutal division in football. Even if you could bring the '04 Eagles into '06 there's no guarantee you'd even win the division. This offseason and how the Eagles respond to it are going to determine if they rise or fall for a few years. There are questions about McNabbs losing the team, the running game, etc. The Eagles have been lucky to stay competetive over a long span that many thought the window of opportunity would have closed for them. Reid is a good coach. Just gotta see how they regroup. I think the nfc east is going to be a battle to the death with the last one standing going to the Super Bowl. For a long time in the Gibbs/Parcells 1st era whoever won the east won the SB. We may be returning to that.

[edgun88]

Philly will be nasty next year... Westbrook, McNabb and Pinkston will be off IR and this year they had a solid defense despite injuries. Which means they have lots of depth on the D. If they get another good wide receiver then I will start to get scared.

[50GutCheck]

Anyone who thinks that this year was an abberation and that the Beagles will automatically assume the "Top Dog" position in the NFC BEast better take those green tinted sunglasses off and step away from the crack pipe. Don't think for a moment that guys like Gibbs, Parcells and Coughlin are going to do much regressing next season.

Skins will retain coaching staff and core players while shopping to fill glaring deficiences on Oline, WR, KR and DL. They will build on the confidence from this year and will continue to be a load to deal with. With that Defense, very rarely will they be out of any games. Offense needs to gain consistancy and step up big time. Drop off in production unlikely. Special Teams play solid however kicking game needs to be better both in punting and scoring/KOs. Punt Returner could have stickier hands.

'Boys will retain HC and may need to make some changes at asst. coach positions depending on off-season moves. They have a young defense that will only get better. At times last year that D looked downright scary...other times they were a push-over. To me their Offense is a big question mark, they need upgrades at OL, RB, QB and game calling. Special Teams runs hot and cold...should solidify as Parcells is a proponent of solid ST play.

Gints will continue to develop Eli. He flashed moments of brilliance last season while reminding us that he was in his second year by tossing a number of boneheaded INTs. They have excellent talent at their Offensive skill positions and Coughlin calls an aggressive Offense. Their Oline needs work though as it is still building cohesiveness plus talent may not be there. Defense, well, I'm not quite sure what to make of it. They were better then I thought they would be but the back 7 needs better talent. Solid Special Teams play.

Beagles still have the best QB in the division but are woefully behind in other skill positions. Oline runs hot and cold and Reid still has a propensity to run an Offense that goes aerial at a 65%+ clip...not a good idea in our division where ball control and time of posession are the name of the game. Defense is still a strength as is the kicking game. Special Teams are adequate. Ownership needs to spend and not leave anything in the bank if they wish to compete. The days of the Beagles being intimidating to the rest of the East are long gone and as others have observed...the window is shutting if it has not done so already!

Now, I may be way off in the above analysis but I think that anybody who believes any of the above teams are going to run away with the division better think again. Actually, the NFC East champ may be that team which plays to a 9-1 or 8-2 record outside of the East...that's how brutal our division will be...IMO.

[WilberMarshall]

Are you watching what Carolina is doing this year?... Philly got hit by a lot of injuries plus a self destruct button alaa TO. Everyone in DC is clamouring for Reggie Wayne... dude could end up in Philly... McNabb will be close to 100%, the D will still be nasty and they have draft picks to help them fix some holes...

NFC east next season will be another brutal division. Will Philly have another off year? Doubt it... I think the notoriously cheap Eagles have found out that they can't just rest their season on McNabb... they found out that their fortunes goes the way of McNabb... they need to get a very good back-up for McNabb (not cheap and available)... they need starter material... the need another running back to step up... Bruce Perry seems to be on the cusp of being a good enough back-up...

Man it will be interesting...

[carlsbadd]

ok fellas, drink the skins kool-aid all you want. i don't blame you for that, I respect it. history has a way of repeating itself,


Yea, history does repeat itself. Gibbs has 3 superbowl rings, so I expect a repeat.

[zoony]

As long as McNabb is healthy, the Eagles will be a formidable opponent.

Yes, it is that simple. Yes, he is that good.

.......

[Darth Tater]

I'd say that every team in the NFC-East has a legit shot; no one can definitively say that any team will be good next year or will suck. I think they have the lowest probability though. How many people, outside of some Redskin fans, thought we'd have a legit shot to go as far as we did? How many people, outside of some Giants fans, thought the Giants would win the division?

[Darth Tater]

"Kool-aid?" The Skins defense is some "Illusion?" The Skins as a team is not better to you? Wow! I'll tell ya what. Philly may be back to some extent, but the days of Philly winning the NFC East by Thanksgiving *ARE OVER!* The NFC East has a better staff coaching. So there are no more Chan Gailey's, Campo's, Spurrier's, or Fassels. It won't be "Business as usual" even if Philly is healthy. If you think that? Then its you that have been "Drinking the kool-aide."
The 2000-2004 Eagles remind me of SF in the 80s, pretty much the only good team in a weak division. Well, SF was an elite team in a bad division.

[Y100Rocks]

Philly's window of opportunity is over, they had their four chances. Everybody else is not going to sit around and not get better, while the Beagles heal.

Ah the old stand by. By your watch it feels like it should end. So that means it will. Argument over right there. He wins.

[Lil Kenzo]

The Eagles were plagued with injuries this year and a disruptive WR in TO. But let's face it. The Eagles will never return to the form that they once were. The NFCE is much improved. No matter how the Eagles fans like to look at it, the Eagles window of opportunity has slammed shut! It will no longer be a walk in the park for the Eagles, they have to earn it. Which means playing hurt late in the season...and we all know how Philly plays when their banged up *cough* the int to Roy Williams *cough*. The Eagles aren't used to playing banged up and are used to wrapping up the division during the reg. season. All the Eagles got out of this year was age and injuries while the skins' and Giants made it to the playoffs and the boys' had a winning year.

[Y100Rocks]

This is true. I know I can't name any high profile eagles players that have been injured over the years that the eagles have over come in order to make the playoffs and excel deep into. Excluding Staley, Taylor, Vincent, Westbrook, McNabb, Dawkins, TO, just to name a few.

And the Eagles definatly have had an easy time in the division. Despite taking it away from the Giants when they were a playoff team, and Dallas in 03.

Please. The Eagles making the playoffs and having no other NFC East team in is an exception. How many times does it need to be said. If the Eagles don't dominate like last year, and another east team managed to sweep them, they, and the Eagles would have both been in the playoffs last year. If the Eagles dominated the division this year, every NFC East team is out of the playoffs and the Eagles are in.

THE EAGLES UPS AND DOWNS CONTROL WHAT IS HAPPENING.

How many times last year did I hear "oh that team in the playoffs isn't very good, if the skins were in they would have competed" Some even said this in regards to the eagles. (hell some people are saying this about the panthers this year) Guess what. If they managed to beat the eagles they would have been in. So what some thought was a "good" team didn't go to the playoffs because of the difference of being swept by the Eagles.

[SkinsHokieFan]

The Eagles will be a quality team

As Westbrook pointed out, once again they have lots of cap room which they will not use, and plenty of draft picks so they will add a whole roster of B+ players rather then making a trade with those pics to get an A+ player that may cost more but put them over the top

The difference in the 2006 Eagles between the 2001-2004 Eagles is they will actually face some fairly stiff competition in the NFC East. Do they go 0-6? Probably not. 6-0? Hell no. I can see 3-3, or even 4-2 if things work out

Taking that account, and realizng that their best season of 2004 was 13-3, with a 6-0 division record, they will probably max out at 10 or 11 wins, and at worst be a 7 to 9 win team

Elite? Na. Superbowl? Doubtful

Competitive and able to get a spot for the playoffs? Most likely

[Westbrook36]

SHF, the one thing that NFC East fans seem to not want to mention when discussing the teams is the fact that the Eagles have the unquestions best QB in the division. How much is that worth? In my opinion, quite a bit in a league where QB play is the most important aspect of winning week to week.

[herrmag]

so does anyone outside of philly think that mcnabb and company has a legit shot at gettin back to the top of the nfc east. i doubt they go 0-6 again. Whats your take on just this team?... once their 345 pro bowlers from 2004 return next season.

IMO with our current team & a free agent wr, rookie DE and new punter will put us right back in the playoffs for sure.

this isn't so much a poll obviously as what people know about philly. Im too lazy to research that on my own accord and i didn't see a thread like this

You assume the NFC East will go back to the days of 1 great team, and 3 crappy teams. It won't. Don't assume you'll make anything anymore. Everything will be a dogfight, like the good ol' days. You guys had your easy run, and blew it. Sorry Iggles, but there's no easy way out. There's no shortcut home. (Sorry, that was for the Philly fans, a Rocky reference). :)

[herrmag]

SHF, the one thing that NFC East fans seem to not want to mention when discussing the teams is the fact that the Eagles have the unquestions best QB in the division. How much is that worth? In my opinion, quite a bit in a league where QB play is the most important aspect of winning week to week.


I like Donovan, I don't think he's accurate, but he has heart. However, Eli, I believe, will take over as the best QB in the division. However, one position doesn't win the SB. Nor does a good QB and WR, does it? ;)

[Westbrook36]

You assume the NFC East will go back to the days of 1 great team, and 3 crappy teams. It won't. Don't assume you'll make anything anymore. Everything will be a dogfight, like the good ol' days. You guys had your easy run, and blew it. Sorry Iggles, but there's no easy way out. There's no shortcut home. (Sorry, that was for the Philly fans, a Rocky reference). :)

This is the biggest misconception that keeps getting repeated on these boards. Every year except 2004, there was another NFC East team that made the playoffs along with the Eagles.

This year? Two NFC East teams made the playoffs. Then again, you guys like to remember things the way you want to instead of looking at the facts.

Then again, what do you expect from a guy that compares Eli to McNabb with a straight face? ;)

[herrmag]

This is the biggest misconception that keeps getting repeated on these boards. Every year except 2004, there was another NFC East team that made the playoffs along with the Eagles.

This year? Two NFC East teams made the playoffs. Then again, you guys like to remember things the way you want to instead of looking at the facts.

Then again, what do you expect from a guy that compares Eli to McNabb with a straight face? ;)

I didn't say they were equal now, but in the future, certainly. And how the hell do you know I did it with a straight face? Are you in Bush's lynch mob? Are you spying on me?

No, but seriously, if you can't see that Eli has talent, then I'm sorry, you're more a homer than I. I personally believe McNabb was a better QB before the ankle break when he could scramble and run like a mad man. He was never stupid like Vick; He would make the throw when given the opportunity. But he is NOT accurate, nor will he ever be. He's a load to bring down though, which makes him a very good QB ( avoiding tackles, giving his WR's time to get open). Not great, but good. Eli has the potential to be great.

[tr1]

...I didn't see the nfc east getting better...

I stopped reading this post right there. :doh:

[tr1]

As long as McNabb and Westbrook are healthy, the Eagles will be dangerous.

Who they acquire this offseason will determine how good they will be. If they shoot for the status-quo, they'll go no better than 8 wins.

They have a lot of holes to fill...and if Kearse is done, that was one bad decision...because a lack of pass rush makes Pro-Bowl CBs look very ordinary.

The Eagles will be tough, though.

[dockeryfan]

Ah the old stand by. By your watch it feels like it should end. So that means it will. Argument over right there. He wins.
Kind of like the cap hell I've been expecting for the last 5 years

[dockeryfan]

Seriously, predicting if the Eagles will be an elite team or an average team at this stage is folly. Players coming off injury is a question, who they sign will be a question, who they re-rign will be a question.
Talk to me in March, then again in June.
Eaglefan wants them to be good, so of course he will argue that way.
When you have a hammer- everything looks like a nail.

[50GutCheck]

Again, to me the question is not whether the Beagles will be good...it's that the level of competition in the East is significantly better. This will have a negative impact on how good the Beagles will be...and for that matter the Skins, Boys and Gints as well. I still feel that the division winner will be based on records outside of the division as we will spend the season beating the hell out of each other...

[Bostic Hog]

SHF, the one thing that NFC East fans seem to not want to mention when discussing the teams is the fact that the Eagles have the unquestions best QB in the division. How much is that worth? In my opinion, quite a bit in a league where QB play is the most important aspect of winning week to week.

I disagree completely. QB play is NOT as important as Defense. Manning x 2, Palmer, Brady, they are all gone from the playoffs. What is the common thread among the remaining teams. A running game, and good rush Defense. The Eagles and Andy Reid don't address those areas. They will be 8-8 ish, at best.

[50GutCheck]

I disagree completely. QB play is NOT as important as Defense. Manning x 2, Palmer, Brady, they are all gone from the playoffs. What is the common thread among the remaining teams. A running game, and good rush Defense. The Eagles and Andy Reid don't address those areas. They will be 8-8 ish, at best.

Good Point Bostic! As the old adage goes..."The ability to stop the run and run the ball wins championships"...holds true!

[Redsk58417]

I disagree completely. QB play is NOT as important as Defense. Manning x 2, Palmer, Brady, they are all gone from the playoffs. What is the common thread among the remaining teams. A running game, and good rush Defense. The Eagles and Andy Reid don't address those areas. They will be 8-8 ish, at best.

I agree!!!!....What Philly fans fail (Miserably) in realizing....is "Yes McNabb is the best QB in the division." However, he plays a *TEAM* sport! There are other areas to the game that not even McNabb can control. Those areas need to be addressed in Philly. Even if McNabb comes back healthy. My question is...."How long will he stay healthy if Reid continues to pass 65% of the time?" McNabb gets hit an awful lot. No change in the Philly philosophy? Don't expect much change in McNabb's long-term health. A little "Common sense 101."

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Like I posted earlier, I believe Philly will be back to an extent. One thing that is being glossed over by most Eagle fans is the fact that they got PASTED by Dallas before any of their injuries really set in and before the TO thing became a disaster. This shows me that, even at full strength, the Eagles are much more vulnerable to the rest of the division.

They'll be a playoff contender for sure, but I don't see them throwing up gaudy win totals. They'll be in the 9-11 win range unless they get crushed by injuries again.

[dockeryfan]

I disagree completely. QB play is NOT as important as Defense. Manning x 2, Palmer, Brady, they are all gone from the playoffs. What is the common thread among the remaining teams. A running game, and good rush Defense. The Eagles and Andy Reid don't address those areas. They will be 8-8 ish, at best.
Except in years past, the Eagles defense has been very stout against the run. This year a little less, but still very good IMO. Problem is, they were up and down. Look what they did to Ladanian when SD came out east. Then look how Denver carved them up with running.
On the offensive side, the Eagles running game was always the threat of McNabb to run. If he's healthy, they will have that. If not, you get what we saw this year. Their offense hinges on Mcnabb, let's see if he's healthy. Put in Koy and it doesn't work because he can't run. Put in Blue Steel, who can run, and it doesn't work because he sucks.
The thing I would love to see is whether Andy actually changes. If he starts to incorporate more running plays ala Bruce Perry I would be surprised. He had success doing this, so he should, but I just don't see it/want it to happen. Let's see if Andy Reid is as stubborn as I like to think he is

[TD_washingtonredskins]

QB is important, but you don't need a star.

The NFL final four QBs:

Jake Plummer, Jake Delhomme, Matt Hasselback, Ben Rothlisberger.

Solid QBs, all of them, none of them are remotely the best players on their teams (or, with the possible exception of Delhomme, the best QBs in their respective divisions for that matter).

[Y100Rocks]

Kind of like the cap hell I've been expecting for the last 5 years

Yeah. Nice one. I made someone who specifically made that point in this topic look stupid. You quoted me and made a blanket statement about certain people in this world? Half implying I think or said that by quoting me???

I never said that. I've always maintained that the redskins tricks have put them in a perpetual state of cap hell-lite. They never have the freedom to do all the things they'd like to do, because they are unwilling to admit they follow the wrong philosphy with the cap. I'd fear the redskins if they actually took the approach like a team with a sack. The Ravens did it. The 49ers and Titans are doing it. They go through true cap hell for a few years. Pay off their debts so to speak. And then can start clean once again. But the Redskins like to pretend what they do is working, so they will always remain mediocre over all.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I'd fear the redskins if they actually took the approach like a team with a sack. The Ravens did it. The 49ers and Titans are doing it. They go through true cap hell for a few years. Pay off their debts so to speak. And then can start clean once again. But the Redskins like to pretend what they do is working, so they will always remain mediocre over all.


I don't know, I'd fear a team that swept you this year if I were you, regardless of cap room. :eaglesuck

[Y100Rocks]

The was about the only game this year McNabb actually look decent in, on one leg no less. The guy was running around. Impressive stuff redskins defense.

Mike McMahon. I've never seen a quarterback fall on the ground after tripping over his own two feet with the style and grace as he.

I know I was impressed with the Redskins victories.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

The was about the only game this year McNabb actually look decent in, on one leg no less. The guy was running around. Impressive stuff redskins defense.

Mike McMahon. I've never seen a quarterback fall on the ground after tripping over his own two feet with the style and grace as he.

I know I was impressed with the Redskins victories.

Bashing your team in order to minimize victories doesn't really work.

All I'm saying is that I wouldn't be too smug about not fearing the Redskins after they are coming off a very impressive season where they had their way with most of the NFC, including the division.

I realize the Eagles had injuries this year, but I think you should probably give a little respect to a team that swept you this past year...that's all I'm saying.

[Westbrook36]

I love how everyone talks about how the Eagles benefitted from a weak NFC East, but truth be told, if it wasn't for all the Eagles injuries and TO-Gate, the Skins would have been 8-8 this year. :laugh:

BTW, for everyone who says QB isn't important (probably because all of your stink), you are just conveniently forgetting about McNabb owning this division for the last 5 years. You will learn again, soon enough.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I love how everyone talks about how the Eagles benefitted from a weak NFC East, but truth be told, if it wasn't for all the Eagles injuries and TO-Gate, the Skins would have been 8-8 this year. :laugh:

BTW, for everyone who says QB isn't important (probably because all of your stink), you are just conveniently forgetting about McNabb owning this division for the last 5 years. You will learn again, soon enough.

First of all, I think it's fair to say that the Skins have now played Philly very well for two years (since Gibbs came back). So, to assume that with TO in the first game, you guys would have won, is a bit of a reach. I'll grant you that we played pretty tight in Philly and that one definitely could have swung your way had you been at full strength.

Now, about QBs, if you'll recall, I didn't say that QB isn't important. All I did was point out that it's not important to have a McNabb-esque QB to win. Whoever wins the SB this year, isn't going to have a great QB. In fact, the best QBs of the past 15 or so years don't have many rings: McNabb (0), Manning (0), Favre (1), etc.

And over Gibbs' career, he's won without stars at QB. Now, he's had very solid, above average ones, but no stars...

[tr1]

I love how everyone talks about how the Eagles benefitted from a weak NFC East, but truth be told, if it wasn't for all the Eagles injuries and TO-Gate, the Skins would have been 8-8 this year. :laugh:


What a crock of crap.

The Eagles were on the slide before the injuries. I called it late last year. We beat Philly in the first game with McNabb, Westbrook and TO...something you like to gloss over.

The Redskins are winners this year because they have very good coaching, not because of Philly's injuries....what a pitiful post...you should be ashamed.

What's your excuse gonna be next year?

[Westbrook36]

What a crock of crap.

The Eagles were on the slide before the injuries. I called it late last year. We beat Philly in the first game with McNabb, Westbrook and TO...something you like to gloss over.

TO played the first game? Wow, I guess if history doesn't suit your argument, just wish away that McNabb was playing at 50 percent and then contend TO played the game. :laugh:


The Redskins are winners this year because they have very good coaching, not because of Philly's injuries....what a pitiful post...you should be ashamed.

What's your excuse gonna be next year?

But every year, the Eagles don't win because of good coaching....it's because the NFC East is such a joke. Gotcha. :laugh:

[Isifhan]

Philly needs to find a running game fairly fast if they want to be contenders without T.O. Even with a healthy McNabb they need some help.

[Westbrook36]

Philly needs to find a running game fairly fast if they want to be contenders without T.O. Even with a healthy McNabb they need some help.

I agree with this. BUT, it's not like they don't have the pieces in place to be a dominant running team. They just need for FATMAN to stop being so boneheaded.

Najeh Davenport, coming off a busted ankle, is the PERFECT large back for our WCO. He will come cheap too, which we all know is a must with Banner. :laugh:

Then, next years RB depth chart looks like this:

Westbrook
Davenport
Moats
Perry

[tr1]

TO played the first game? Wow, I guess if history doesn't suit your argument, just wish away that McNabb was playing at 50 percent and then contend TO played the game. :laugh:



But every year, the Eagles don't win because of good coaching....it's because the NFC East is such a joke. Gotcha. :laugh:

Ok, wrong about TO...how could I forget that fake injury?

Philly doesn't win BIG games because its coach has problems with time management an play calling. Andy had a brain cramp with the pass this year.

Philly has too many holes to fill. McNabb will win some on his own and Westbrook will win a couple, but it won't be enough. You should start worrying about your D.

[Captain Chaos47]

An interesting take on the Eagles offseason by a fan over at Igglephans.com:

"However we feel about the current regime, I think we can all agree on this.

Like it or not, Eagles are committed to a handful of key players to make the final run of McNabb's career (McNabb, Westbrook, LJ, maybe Reggie Brown, maybe most of the secondary) and little else. We'll succeed or fail with these key players and Reid/Heckert.

This offseason is critical for the final run of McNabb's career(not just next year) because of several factors:

1. Both OT spots, a mainstay during the preliminary run of our franchise QB, are uncertain.
2. The interior line is hardly established either.
3. WR is in flux (except for Brown)
4. Defensive front 7 is pedestrian as a group.
5. Eagles have plenty of cap room to operate.
6. Eagles are drafting in the top half of each round in a deep draft and it might be the last draft that can really help during McNabb's career.

Reid and Heckert had better realize the full weight of this offseason and respond to that pressure appropriately."

[Westbrook36]

The thing is, for every problem or hole someone can name on the Eagles, I can easily name the solution (whether it be FA, draft, or returning player from IR).

Can you do the same thing with the Skins? You know, its going to be hard to add that Number 2 WR and pass rushing DE being 20 million over the cap and having to CUT players to get under as well as no first round draft pick.

[dockeryfan]

Originally Posted by dockeryfan
Kind of like the cap hell I've been expecting for the last 5 years


Yeah. Nice one. I made someone who specifically made that point in this topic look stupid. You quoted me and made a blanket statement about certain people in this world? Half implying I think or said that by quoting me???

I never said that. I've always maintained that the redskins tricks have put them in a perpetual state of cap hell-lite. They never have the freedom to do all the things they'd like to do, because they are unwilling to admit they follow the wrong philosphy with the cap. I'd fear the redskins if they actually took the approach like a team with a sack. The Ravens did it. The 49ers and Titans are doing it. They go through true cap hell for a few years. Pay off their debts so to speak. And then can start clean once again. But the Redskins like to pretend what they do is working, so they will always remain mediocre over all.
My statement was tounge in cheek. You were making a statement that people saying the window of opportunity was crap and just wishful thinking.
I was making a joke that people saying we were in cap hell was crap and just wishful thinking.
I didn't think it implied that you felt that way. Sorry to ruffle your feathers.
And I disagree with the cap-hell lite comment as well. It just puts us on par with every other team dealing with the salary cap. Everyone seems to think the Redskins are worse off, but they never seem to be.
Honestly, I've been waiting for this cap hell for 5 years now.

[tr1]

The thing is, for every problem or hole someone can name on the Eagles, I can easily name the solution (whether it be FA, draft, or returning player from IR).

Can you do the same thing with the Skins? You know, its going to be hard to add that Number 2 WR and pass rushing DE being 20 million over the cap and having to CUT players to get under as well as no first round draft pick.

I'm glad you have it mapped out...problem is things happen...like injuries and bad FA acquisitions (Kearse, TO) and bad draft picks (any Eagle WR pick in the last zillion years.)

I still like our chances...



.

[Westbrook36]

Kearse hasn't been bad. He was overpayed, true, but he has recorded 7.5 sacks per year and has played the run very well. The problem is there is NOONE on that DL taking any pressure off him. If the Eagles fix their DL, expect Kearse to record 10 plus sacks next year.

tr1, are you conceding that the Skins won't be able to sign any FA acquisitions and will probably have to cut several players they counted on this year just to get under the cap? If not, how will they do it? If you respond with "roster bonus's" which we all know is still counted as salary and the rule of 30 won't allow them to cook the books this year, I'm going to have to ask Pocono to come back in here and give you another salary cap class as learning obviously hasn't occured. :laugh:

[dockeryfan]

Kearse hasn't been bad. He was overpayed, true, but he has recorded 7.5 sacks per year and has played the run very well. The problem is there is NOONE on that DL taking any pressure off him. If the Eagles fix their DL, expect Kearse to record 10 plus sacks next year.
t
Which goes back to why letting Simon and Burgess go without replacing them was a bad front office move.

[tr1]

tr1, are you conceding that the Skins won't be able to sign any FA acquisitions and will probably have to cut several players they counted on this year just to get under the cap? If not, how will they do it? If you respond with "roster bonus's" which we all know is still counted as salary and the rule of 30 won't allow them to cook the books this year, I'm going to have to ask Pocono to come back in here and give you another salary cap class as learning obviously hasn't occured. :laugh:

Ok, I never said the Skins weren't going to have to cut somebody...that's inevitable...but they aren't going to cut anyone they can't live without.

But I am continually amazed at how you and your pals continue to discount the ingenuity of the Redskins' FO. They keep signing players, pay the dollars and still, you say, "It's going to catch up to them." Well, if going to the playoffs is "catching up", then so be it.

And everyone is forgetting the TV deal...it's gonna add a lot to the cap.

[Westbrook36]

Which goes back to why letting Simon and Burgess go without replacing them was a bad front office move.

Well, looking back at it now, Burgess was certainly a mistake. They thought Kalu would be better (he stinks) and McDougle getting shot really hurt. Honestly, dock, you think it's a bad move to not sign a guy to a 20 million dollar contract who recorded 2 sacks the previous year when you have the former 15th pick in the draft showing promise at the end of the year?

I still defend the Simon move. The Eagles tendered him and were prepared to bring him back. Problem was they got wind he was completely out of shape and fat and disgusting. Who are you going to sign to replace him on August 28th? We did have good depth at DT but injuries happened. You have to make gambles. You have Sam Rayburn getting 6 sacks in limited action in 04 and you think he will be able to step up. Darwin Walker getting hurt in week 2 hurt as well.

But, you can't say categorically that either move was incorrect at the time it was made.

[tr1]

Which goes back to why letting Simon and Burgess go without replacing them was a bad front office move.

dockeryfan...ixney on the burgessey talkey...you're gonna make them cry.

[Westbrook36]

dockeryfan...ixney on the burgessey talkey...you're gonna make them cry.

I wish we still had him. Better yet, I wish he signed a longterm deal in the beginning of 04 as the Eagles were offering. Shoot, we stuck with the guy through three years of constant injuries....you'd think he'd have shown a little loyalty. ;)

He's a beast. But, we have his clone in Trent Cole who recorded 6 sacks in limited action this year and is the starting DE on the all rookie team this year. Not bad for a fifth rounder.

[tr1]

I wish we still had him. Better yet, I wish he signed a longterm deal in the beginning of 04 as the Eagles were offering. Shoot, we stuck with the guy through three years of constant injuries....you'd think he'd have shown a little loyalty. ;)

He's a beast. But, we have his clone in Trent Cole who recorded 6 sacks in limited action this year and is the starting DE on the all rookie team this year. Not bad for a fifth rounder.

Personally, I think it takes 3 years for a DL to come into his own. We have a couple of guys who will be better next year, as well. But you can never have enough linemen...on either side of the ball.

[Westbrook36]

Now we can finally agree on something. :cheers:

[dockeryfan]

Well, looking back at it now, Burgess was certainly a mistake. They thought Kalu would be better (he stinks) and McDougle getting shot really hurt. Honestly, dock, you think it's a bad move to not sign a guy to a 20 million dollar contract who recorded 2 sacks the previous year when you have the former 15th pick in the draft showing promise at the end of the year?

I still defend the Simon move. The Eagles tendered him and were prepared to bring him back. Problem was they got wind he was completely out of shape and fat and disgusting. Who are you going to sign to replace him on August 28th? We did have good depth at DT but injuries happened. You have to make gambles. You have Sam Rayburn getting 6 sacks in limited action in 04 and you think he will be able to step up. Darwin Walker getting hurt in week 2 hurt as well.

But, you can't say categorically that either move was incorrect at the time it was made.
Hell, if you read my replies in other posts, I think the Burgess move and the Simon move were fine, only if you can replace them with equal talent.
With Simon it was too late to make any free agency moves, so they should have either just released him in March, or paid the 5 mil.
With Burgess, I absolutely thought it was a good move to let him go. He was injured and unproven. But, again, they were thinking too highly of McDougal. He already sucked.
If you release everyone and fail to sign anyone new you better expect a dropoff.

[Redsk58417]

Question. "Why does all the Philly fans think that the Gibbs led-Skins are some *1 year wonder?*" When Gibbs and Parcells roamed the sidelines previously, Philly and the Cardinals had annual battles to stay out of the NFC East basement. Only people who are young and clueless and as blind as Stevie Wonder would think that this season was an "aberration" in DC. The Skins will only get better from here. Not like under Spurrier, or Norv. Just keep saying "The Skins aren't *THAT GOOD!*" Or keep blaming Philly's bad season on "injury or T.O." Its going to be really rough for Eagles fans. I said on other boards...."It will be *EPIPHANY* time" concerning the Skins. And it was!

[Chachie]

I think all 4 teams will have an equal shot at it. If the Eagles find 1 or 2 good WRs in the offseason, they can get right back into the fight.

[Redsk58417]

I think all 4 teams will have an equal shot at it. If the Eagles find 1 or 2 good WRs in the offseason, they can get right back into the fight.

True. Imo? O-line depth is high on the offseason "To do" list as well. 2 seasons in a row have been altered by o-line injuries. A little quality depth here is in order.

[zoony]

QB is important, but you don't need a star.

The NFL final four QBs:

Jake Plummer, Jake Delhomme, Matt Hasselback, Ben Rothlisberger.

Solid QBs, all of them, none of them are remotely the best players on their teams (or, with the possible exception of Delhomme, the best QBs in their respective divisions for that matter).


No offense, but you must not watch those teams very often.

Jake and Matt are the best QB's in the NFC. Without them, their teams would not have sniffed the playoffs...

And Roethlisburger... we all saw what that Steeler team looked like without him, didn't we? And before he got there? (Maddox, anyone? :doh: )

The only 1 of the 4 you could even question is Plummer. Although, as I said in another thread, he has REALLY surprised me this year. I was convinced he was garbage... but much to my dissapointment he has completely proven me wrong. But I do think he is the weakest of the 4.


Make absolutely no mistake. If you don't have a QB... you aren't winning in this league. Yes, it is that simple.

......

[Bostic Hog]

No offense, but you must not watch those teams very often.

Jake and Matt are the best QB's in the NFC. Without them, their teams would not have sniffed the playoffs...

And Roethlisburger... we all saw what that Steeler team looked like without him, didn't we? And before he got there? (Maddox, anyone? :doh: )

The only 1 of the 4 you could even question is Plummer. Although, as I said in another thread, he has REALLY surprised me this year. I was convinced he was garbage... but much to my dissapointment he has completely proven me wrong. But I do think he is the weakest of the 4.


Make absolutely no mistake. If you don't have a QB... you aren't winning in this league. Yes, it is that simple.

......

I certainly agree that you have to have a SERVICEABLE QB, but these guys aren't stars. The stars at QB are all out of the playoffs. To win, you need a running game and rush D - I stand by my statement.

[OWUeagleMD]

I certainly agree that you have to have a SERVICEABLE QB, but these guys aren't stars. The stars at QB are all out of the playoffs. To win, you need a running game and rush D - I stand by my statement.

At this time last year the QBs left in the championship round were Donovan McNabb, Mike Vick, Tom Brady, and Roethlisberger.

One year without superstar QBs doesn't prove they are unneccesary.

I'll just say its comforting to know that for the next 8-10 years, I have a Pro Bowler calling the Eagles' plays.

[kingfish50]

not to bash your post, but it's not revelant, philly is looking to recover from injury and become an ELITE team again, not just a winning franchise. minus t.o., we are Basically the same team from the year before. burgess was never even a starter till the playoffs, and simon was wayy overweight to be a force. should be the same results as 2004 in my mind. I didn't see the nfc east getting better, I just saw the eagles have a crushing injury problem and unable to compete. Mcnabb is 27 and will be here for a long time. westbrook is even younger and with the rookie moats, we have legitimate depth at the position. free agancy will be very little this year. we may add a dt, de, or posession type receiver, but really, not much. all our players except runyan are signed long term, and we will have very little turnover.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :eaglesuck

[zoony]

To win, you need a running game and rush D - I stand by my statement.

Certainly doesn't hurt. I would never argue that.

But there is a reason the Redskins and Bears didn't go all the way.

There is also a reason that Tom Brady has won 3 of the last 4 superbowls. It ain't the NE defense, man. ;)


Anyways... I've had this discussion 7000 times on this forum... I think if I talk about it anymore I will really start to grate on nerves. :)

.....

[TD_washingtonredskins]

No offense, but you must not watch those teams very often.

Jake and Matt are the best QB's in the NFC. Without them, their teams would not have sniffed the playoffs...

And Roethlisburger... we all saw what that Steeler team looked like without him, didn't we? And before he got there? (Maddox, anyone? :doh: )

The only 1 of the 4 you could even question is Plummer. Although, as I said in another thread, he has REALLY surprised me this year. I was convinced he was garbage... but much to my dissapointment he has completely proven me wrong. But I do think he is the weakest of the 4.


Make absolutely no mistake. If you don't have a QB... you aren't winning in this league. Yes, it is that simple.

......

Jake Delhomme and Matt Hasselback are the two best QBs in the NFC or they have put together the two most successful seasons?

To me, that is the distinction. Those two guys are nothing all that special (in fact Delhomme was being ripped for a lot of this season for just throwing to one guy and having too many INTs). Add in Big Ben who has done a great job of running the Steelers, but again is not an unbelievable QB, and I think all 4 guys playing this coming weekend are above-average.

You need a quality QB, but you do not need a star. By your definition (if you think Delhomme and Hasselback are stars), there are 15 or so QB stars in the NFL, and that's simply not the case.

:2cents:

[zoony]

TD.... watch Delhomme this weekend.

Replay the tape of him in the superbowl against the patriots.

Then ask yourself, what would the Washington Redskins look like with a guy like that behind center?

I'd bet we had 13 wins this year. Not kidding.

Guy is clutch. A gamer. He makes the plays when he has to. He is a leader out there... and he is one of the top QB's in the NFC, if not tops.

We are obviously watching/talking about a different person. Because anyone who saw Delhomme last Sunday tear apart one of the top defenses in the NFL with only one receiving threat, in the face of constant pressure and no running game on the road.... certainly wouldn't say that Delhomme isn't the truth. :)

...

[TD_washingtonredskins]

TD.... watch Delhomme this weekend.

Replay the tape of him in the superbowl against the patriots.

Then ask yourself, what would the Washington Redskins look like with a guy like that behind center?

I'd bet we had 13 wins this year. Not kidding.

Guy is clutch. A gamer. He makes the plays when he has to. He is a leader out there... and he is one of the top QB's in the NFC, if not tops.

We are obviously watching/talking about a different person. Because anyone who saw Delhomme last Sunday tear apart one of the top defenses in the NFL with only one receiving threat, in the face of constant pressure and no running game on the road.... certainly wouldn't say that Delhomme isn't the truth. :)

...

Well, my point isn't to rip Jake Delhomme. I like the guy as a QB and would have loved to have him as our QB. I agree that we'd have been a better team with him at the helm. However, this only further proves my point. He's a good, reliable QB. Nothing more. There are very few QB stars in this league IMO.

Maybe where we're diverging on this debate is how we define a great QB. To me, Brady, Manning, McNabb, Favre are the great ones. Maybe Vick if you are just going on skills.

Plummer beat Brady last weekend and Big Ben beat Manning. Now, to me that speaks volumes of the importance (or lack there of) of having a GREAT QB.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Well, my point isn't to rip Jake Delhomme. I like the guy as a QB and would have loved to have him as our QB. I agree that we'd have been a better team with him at the helm. However, this only further proves my point. He's a good, reliable QB. Nothing more. There are very few QB stars in this league IMO.

Maybe where we're diverging on this debate is how we define a great QB. To me, Brady, Manning, McNabb, Favre are the great ones. Maybe Vick if you are just going on skills.

Plummer beat Brady last weekend and Big Ben beat Manning. Now, to me that speaks volumes of the importance (or lack there of) of having a GREAT QB.

I just wanted to bump this now that two of these QBs that some thought were upper-echelon gagged pretty big. I don't want to hear about Plummer or Delhomme being categorized as "great" for a while.