Eagles FO is cheap: The Final Discussion

[Westbrook36]

tr1, you had to force my hand. I was content in letting you spew your venom and just laughing at you from afar. But lately, I feel it is my civic duty to expose you for the blowhard that you are. Feel free to bring rational points to this discussion as to why the Eagles FO is cheap.

Eagles' spending from 2000-2004:

Year Median salary Total Payroll
2004 $ 653,900 $ 104,977,331
2003 $ 655,000 $ 77,436,900
2002 $ 762,995 $ 81,929,630
2001 $ 701,760 $ 70,893,988
2000 $ 473,200 $ 55,581,400

http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/football/nf...ts.aspx?team=24 (http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/teamresults.aspx?team=24)

Salary cap:

2006--$94,500,000
2005--$85,500,000
2004--$80,582,000
2003--$75,007,000
2002--$71,100,000
2001--$67,400,000
2000--$62,172,000

http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/
http://www.vertgame.com/sal_cap.html

Eagles spending above the cap:

2005--($6.3)
2004--$24.4M
2003--$2.4M
2002--$10.1M
2001--$2.1 M
2000--($6.6M)

http://www.geocities.com/eaglescap/Storage.html
The Eagles have spent, on average, $4.35M more than the cap over the last 6 years.

tr1 told us Upshaw was talking about the Eagles when he talked about teams not spending allocated cap money. tr1, please don't talk in hyperbole or generalities.....please refute these facts and figures or kindly STFU!!!

Thanks in advance.

[Number5]

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo................ ..........................


WB36 come out with all gunz blazing!

Good post!

[Eagle091]

ok wb, FOUL!!! you used tr1 and rational in the same sentence. gotta flag you for unsportmanship lying. those two words cannot exist in the same post. lol

[Warhead36]

I think tr1 just got raped.

[sableholic]

never good when one of your sources is geocities. also didn't you say they were not only not cheap, but they lead the league in spending? I just looked at that first link and washington spent more every year besides 2002. Hell in 2003 they were down really far on that chart (17). Keep in mind I am not saying they are cheap, but I'm not seeing top spending team in last 5 years or whatever you claimed.

[dockeryfan]

Eagles spending above the cap:

2005--($6.3)
2004--$24.4M
2003--$2.4M
2002--$10.1M
2001--$2.1 M
2000--($6.6M)

http://www.geocities.com/eaglescap/Storage.html

This link doesn't reference 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004

If you have those roster breakdowns, I would love to see them.

[sableholic]

This link doesn't reference 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004

If you have those roster breakdowns, I would love to see them.

LoL I didn't even look at the link cause it said geocities, but your right that link doesn't even show those years, just this year.

[Westbrook36]

LoL I didn't even look at the link cause it said geocities, but your right that link doesn't even show those years, just this year.

The query only shows you one year at a time. Just plug in whatever year you want to see and someone tell me my numbers are wrong.

The geocities link is from the resident Eagles cap expert. Sorta like when people use scout.com as a source for Skins cap related info.

I'm still waiting for someone to look at the data and call the Eagles FO cheap.

[Eagle091]

they won't. you know this already wb lol. it's easier to be a follower than a leader. tr1 spouts generic half truth's and because it's in print, it's gospel. very old story around here, but still entertaining.

[mboyd784]

The geocities link is from the resident Eagles cap expert. Sorta like when people use scout.com as a source for Skins cap related info.

I'm still waiting for someone to look at the data and call the Eagles FO cheap.[/QUOTE]

Let me see if I can get T.O. or Corey Simon on the line!!

[Number5]

The geocities link is from the resident Eagles cap expert. Sorta like when people use scout.com as a source for Skins cap related info.

I'm still waiting for someone to look at the data and call the Eagles FO cheap.

Let me see if I can get T.O. or Corey Simon on the line!![/QUOTE]


They're too busy....

One is in the unemployment line and the other is in the Subway line asking for a toasted Chicken N Ranch wit pickles on the side.

[mboyd784]

Let me see if I can get T.O. or Corey Simon on the line!!


They're too busy....

One is in the unemployment line and the other is in the Subway line asking for a toasted Chicken N Ranch wit pickles on the side.[/QUOTE]

Cool, I'll get Burgess then! Maybe even Irving Fryar! BTW, the only two players you have that you are "paying" are a QB who lacks leadership skills and a running back who cant stay healthy!

Now I'm through with youse guys...you're too easy! I need a challenge so I'm gonna troll the Falcons blog..at least their QB was a winner in college!

[Number5]

They're too busy....

One is in the unemployment line and the other is in the Subway line asking for a toasted Chicken N Ranch wit pickles on the side.

Cool, I'll get Burgess then! Maybe even Irving Fryar! BTW, the only two players you have that you are "paying" are a QB who lacks leadership skills and a running back who cant stay healthy!

Now I'm through with youse guys...you're too easy! I need a challenge so I'm gonna troll the Falcons blog..at least their QB was a winner in college!


"Youse guys"....

Okay.......

1 - Irving Fryar retired only to resign with the Skins only to have his career ended by Troy Vincent of the Eagles.
2 - Yes, while Derrick Burgess was a mistake now, he was coming off of 3 straight years of injuries that limited his play on the field. He made out with a Larry Brown type payday for his performance in the playoffs.
3 - McNabb wasn't a winner in college? If I'm not mistaken, he was a winner in college, graduated from college and he also is a winner in the pros. He has more regular season, playoff, hell even pro bowl wins than Vick.


The lesson is, if your going to be an idiot, please try to be an intellegent idiot. You do yourself a disservice, especially when you use the word "youse". First off, no one uses that word, second, its not a word, third, if it was a word, you sounded very stupid using it!

[mboyd784]

"intellegent" idiot...lol...like I said, it's too easy! The proper spelling is intelligent...here endeth the lesson, I have enjoyed it.

[Number5]

"intellegent" idiot...lol...like I said, it's too easy! The proper spelling is intelligent...here endeth the lesson, I have enjoyed it.


I'm glad you did kiddo.....now if you don't mind leaving the room, the grown ups have something to talk about.


Lol..........enjoy your day fam.

[sableholic]

The query only shows you one year at a time. Just plug in whatever year you want to see and someone tell me my numbers are wrong.

The geocities link is from the resident Eagles cap expert. Sorta like when people use scout.com as a source for Skins cap related info.

I'm still waiting for someone to look at the data and call the Eagles FO cheap.

... one is actually pays money for their website and is used by ESPN, hmmm wonder which one is more credible. Cap expert or not geocities immediately disregards a site too me and almost everyone in educational fields.

they won't. you know this already wb lol. it's easier to be a follower than a leader. tr1 spouts generic half truth's and because it's in print, it's gospel. very old story around here, but still entertaining.

... considering there are alot of us who don't agree with it, I don't understand how we are all follows. You assuming we all believe it and us believing it are completely different. All I was argueing is the fact that I remember Westy saying that the Eagles were #1 over the last five years, and from those #'s it doesn't appear that way to me. Were they cheap? Doesn't appear that way either.

[Art]

Anyone wonder if WB has ever heard of the fake dollars the Eagles build in to contracts to bloat the appearance of spending in one year to carry over to another? I'm pretty sure he has since he once bragged about it. :).

[jpgirth]

Anyone wonder if WB has ever heard of the fake dollars the Eagles build in to contracts to bloat the appearance of spending in one year to carry over to another? I'm pretty sure he has since he once bragged about it. :).
I believe..don't know that maybe is one of the sticking points of the new CBA?

This is how the Philly media sells to their fanbase, that they spend every dollar of their cap.

Just maybe what Upshaw is referring to.

[sableholic]

I believe..don't know that maybe is one of the sticking points of the new CBA?

This is how the Philly media sells to their fanbase, that they spend every dollar of their cap.

Just maybe what Upshaw is referring to.

Anyone wonder if WB has ever heard of the fake dollars the Eagles build in to contracts to bloat the appearance of spending in one year to carry over to another? I'm pretty sure he has since he once bragged about it. :).


Two very good points. How bout that.

[Seabee1973]

The query only shows you one year at a time. Just plug in whatever year you want to see and someone tell me my numbers are wrong.

The geocities link is from the resident Eagles cap expert. Sorta like when people use scout.com as a source for Skins cap related info.

I'm still waiting for someone to look at the data and call the Eagles FO cheap.



We all Know the eagles are not cheap Those Big mac and Hardees Angus burgers get pretty expensive to feed ole Andy.:silly:

[Art]

The reason the Eagles are cheap is simple. They are sitting with MILLIONS of dollars available on a team needing depth that could come from actually acquiring players. That just happened ONE year ago. And, every year the Eagles fake the cap out with bogus millions in fake bonuses that carry over, making the problem even worse. The best thing ever is the Eagles didn't win the Super Bowl after Lurie was pressured to act like a real owner and be more Snyder-like a couple of years ago. He'll be gun shy from now on.

[sableholic]

awaiting Eagles fans responses

[dockeryfan]

The query only shows you one year at a time. Just plug in whatever year you want to see and someone tell me my numbers are wrong.

The geocities link is from the resident Eagles cap expert. Sorta like when people use scout.com as a source for Skins cap related info.

I'm still waiting for someone to look at the data and call the Eagles FO cheap.
I must be missing something, because I don't know how to plug in the other years.
What would the url look like?
http://www.geocities.com/eaglescap/Storage.html
I'm not trying to be a smartass, I seriously want to see these pages for 2000-2004

[sableholic]

I must be missing something, because I don't know how to plug in the other years.
What would the url look like?
http://www.geocities.com/eaglescap/Storage.html
I'm not trying to be a smartass, I seriously want to see these pages for 2000-2004

Only one I can figure out is 2005. Thats one ugly ass site also. Gotta love geocities websites.

[tr1]

WB, you make me laugh.

LTBE...perhaps you'd like to explain this to your Eagle friends.

And let me ask you, does 'spend' mean put into someone elses' hands or promise 'to be expended'?

You know the answer...be honest with your friends.

Are the Eagles the cheapest team in the NFL? No, just one of the 12 cheapest...you know, the ones that don't ACTUALLY spend allocated money, but hoard it.

By definition, having huge cap room means you haven't spent money...duh.

Why on Earth do so many Eagles players want off that team when given the chance? Answer: Eagles cap management :laugh:

You've made a dishonest argument...you should be ashamed. You're reasonably intelligent...and to lead your less intelligent friends down a slippery slope is...well...regrettable.

[jrockster21]

Damn, WB...the last 5 or 6 posts pretty much made your argument look silly, but since you asked:

I'm still waiting for someone to look at the data and call the Eagles FO cheap.

The Eagles FO is CHEAP!! :nana:

[TheREALJBird]

Well, this thread certainly got turned upside down lol

[TerpsEagles]

Why on Earth do so many Eagles players want off that team when given the chance? Answer: Eagles cap management :laugh:


I've got to hear this...... okay, tr1, what do you base the above statement on ?

Please show me that the Eagles have a higher proportion of players that want off the team than other teams in the nfl. Please. And do me a favor, since it's Friday and all, if you can't back up your statement w/ either solid numbers or at a minimum an overwhelming ammount of dirctly attributable quotes to players who want to leave the Eagles, than just admit that you completely pulled that made up comment out of your butt and you have no basis for making it at all. And let's move on.

[bedlamVR]

Troy Vincent, Bobby Taylor, Corry Simon, Jerahmia Trotter -sucked big time came back , Duce Staley - I hear he has a supperbowl ring you know, Dereck Burgess, Shawn Barber, Hugh Douglass - sucked big time came back errmmm fred-EX all wanted out all were starters all had faily big clashes with the FO ... and of course I am forgetting to mention TO .

THe Skins have had a lot of player turnover but that is mostly down to changes in coaches but the Eagles havent they have had the same set up for years and no the Eagles havent got bad overnight but it is the constant drip drip drip of players exiting leaves more and more bad blood . Once the Cowboys, Giants and Skins get their respective ship rightened balance will be restored to the NFCEast again with the mighty green looking up from the basement ...

[dockeryfan]

Troy Vincent, Bobby Taylor, Corry Simon, Jerahmia Trotter -sucked big time came back , Duce Staley - I hear he has a supperbowl ring you know, Dereck Burgess, Shawn Barber, Hugh Douglass - sucked big time came back errmmm fred-EX all wanted out all were starters all had faily big clashes with the FO ... and of course I am forgetting to mention TO .

THe Skins have had a lot of player turnover but that is mostly down to changes in coaches but the Eagles havent they have had the same set up for years and no the Eagles havent got bad overnight but it is the constant drip drip drip of players exiting leaves more and more bad blood . Once the Cowboys, Giants and Skins get their respective ship rightened balance will be restored to the NFCEast again with the mighty green looking up from the basement ...
I was going to post that same list, but I forgot about Shawn Barber.

[TerpsEagles]

Troy Vincent, Bobby Taylor, Corry Simon, Jerahmia Trotter -sucked big time came back , Duce Staley - I hear he has a supperbowl ring you know, Dereck Burgess, Shawn Barber, Hugh Douglass - sucked big time came back errmmm fred-EX all wanted out all were starters all had faily big clashes with the FO ... and of course I am forgetting to mention TO .



I think you need to learn the difference between a player being released, as in the team desired to let them go, and a player wanting to, or leaving on their own accord.

[TerpsEagles]

I was going to post that same list, but I forgot about Shawn Barber.

then your list would have been just as bad Dock.

you people are hard headed. Never did I claim that the Eagles haven't had any players want to leave, and do so for a better deal. What I did was question tr1's statement, which he made it sound like it was an overwhelming ammount of players looking to leave. More than other teams have.

Again, the majority of your list were RELEASED BY the Eagles. That is very different than players wanting out.

[dockeryfan]

then your list would have been just as bad Dock.

you people are hard headed. Never did I claim that the Eagles haven't had any players want to leave, and do so for a better deal. What I did was question tr1's statement, which he made it sound like it was an overwhelming ammount of players looking to leave. More than other teams have.

Again, the majority of your list were RELEASED BY the Eagles. That is very different than players wanting out.
Well then you have to at least concede with Duce, Vincent, Trotter I, and Simon. They all left with bad blood.

[TerpsEagles]

Well then you have to at least concede with Duce, Vincent, Trotter I, and Simon. They all left with bad blood.

what the hell does that have to do w/ what tr1 said.....

the bad blood was that most, if not all, wanted to STAY w/ the Eagles. The Eagles CHOSE not to retain them. And in hindsight, the Eagles were 100% right in that decision w/ 3 of the 4 you just mentioned. So boo hoo if they have bad blood yet go on to their new team to do NOTHING.

Yet tr1, and now you all, are trying to twist it like players are scratching and clawing to get out of Philly. Please.

And the fact that Skins fans of all people bring up Shawn Barber in their argument is funny. Why didn't Barber stay in Redskin-land and not sign w/ the Eagles ?

And don't even get me started on Trotter. Great choice there to support your argument...

[dockeryfan]

And in hindsight, the Eagles were 100% right in that decision w/ 3 of the 4 you just mentioned.
I think they took a step back when Duce and Simon left without a doubt. You could argue for Trotter as well.

I don't know exactly why you are arguing that players want to leave Philly.
If they are leaving for money purposes, so be it; it's a business. But some players leave because they feel their worth is higher than the Eagles want to pay. The Eagles FO has stated this themselves, why are you arguing?

[dockeryfan]

A good example is Pierce leaving last year.
We took a step back in the MLB position, but Marshall played very well, and the team did ok. But he left with bad blood. The team did the right thing by not overpaying, but he was still jilted. All the players I mentioned before felt the same way leaving the Eagles. It just seems like there are more of them on the Eagles.

[TerpsEagles]

I think they took a step back when Duce and Simon left without a doubt. You could argue for Trotter as well.

I don't know exactly why you are arguing that players want to leave Philly.
If they are leaving for money purposes, so be it; it's a business. But some players leave because they feel their worth is higher than the Eagles want to pay. The Eagles FO has stated this themselves, why are you arguing?

I called tr1 out on his b.s. statement:

Why on Earth do so many Eagles players want off that team when given the chance? Answer: Eagles cap management

that's it. I didn't say that players haven't left. You get that right ? Again, I called tr1 out, asked him what basis he has for insinuating that there is some sort of disproportionate number of players that wants out of Philly.

Then you all jumped into the mix and started throwing names at me... names of players that the Eagles released.

Being released, and wanting off that team when given the chance are completely different.

Dockery, you should really just let tr1 answer for himself on some of these things he says. Especially if you don't agree w/ him.

[TerpsEagles]

A good example is Pierce leaving last year.
We took a step back in the MLB position, but Marshall played very well, and the team did ok. But he left with bad blood. The team did the right thing by not overpaying, but he was still jilted. All the players I mentioned before felt the same way leaving the Eagles. It just seems like there are more of them on the Eagles.

fine. Would you say a statement like this is appropriate to the Skins then?

"Why on Earth do so many Redskin players want off that team when given the chance? Answer: Redskin cap management"

[dockeryfan]

I called tr1 out on his b.s. statement:



that's it. I didn't say that players haven't left. You get that right ? Again, I called tr1 out, asked him what basis he has for insinuating that there is some sort of disproportionate number of players that wants out of Philly.

Then you all jumped into the mix and started throwing names at me... names of players that the Eagles released.

Being released, and wanting off that team when given the chance are completely different.

Dockery, you should really just let tr1 answer for himself on some of these things he says. Especially if you don't agree w/ him.
Well the Eagles can release a player and the player can still want off the team. All those players felt a little unappreciated.
Just sayin...

[TerpsEagles]

Well the Eagles can release a player and the player can still want off the team. All those players felt a little unappreciated.
Just sayin...

and that doesn't happen w/ any other team in the league, right ? Just the Eagles.

Still doesn't even come close to supporting tr1's assanine statement and you know it.

You all have a good day...

[dockeryfan]

and that doesn't happen w/ any other team in the league, right ? Just the Eagles.

Still doesn't even come close to supporting tr1's assanine statement and you know it.

You all have a good day...
Man, he really gets you going.
I happen to agree that it happens to more players on the Eagles, and I'm just going by past results.
If it's any consolation, I don't think it really affects the locker room.

[TerpsEagles]

Man, he really gets you going.
I happen to agree that it happens to more players on the Eagles, and I'm just going by past results.
If it's any consolation, I don't think it really affects the locker room.

unreal. So when the Eagles "release" a player... and probably 90% of the time... that player goes on to do NOTHING w/ the next team...(meaning the Eagles decision to release is correct WAY more than it isn't)
but now that player has "bad blood", you're holding it against the Eagles.

You are aware that tr1's statement in question was directly attributed to the Eagles cap management, right ?

And you use Trotter, who came to play for you all and is now back w/ the Eagles.... (btw, is he still on the Skins books as dead money ?... seeing as tr1's whole point was about cap management)

And Shawn Barber who LEFT the Redskins to come to the Eagles, but now somehow you use him in your support of your argument against the Eagles as in regards to players leaving ???????

[dockeryfan]

unreal. So when the Eagles "release" a player... and probably 90% of the time... that player goes on to do NOTHING w/ the next team...(meaning the Eagles decision to release is correct WAY more than it isn't)
but now that player has "bad blood", you're holding it against the Eagles.

You are aware that tr1's statement in question was directly attributed to the Eagles cap management, right ?

And you use Trotter, who came to play for you all and is now back w/ the Eagles.... (btw, is he still on the Skins books as dead money ?... seeing as tr1's whole point was about cap management)

And Shawn Barber who LEFT the Redskins to come to the Eagles, but now somehow you use him in your support of your argument against the Eagles as in regards to players leaving ???????
Dude, you're spinning around.
I used all those examples of players who left the Eagles disappointed and unappreciated.
I stand by that assessment.

You talk to others about generalizations then you use things like "90% of them go on to do nothing".
And when the Eagles go on to "release" a player because they don't think they are worth it, yes that creates bad blood.
How can you think otherwise?

[tr1]

unreal. So when the Eagles "release" a player... and probably 90% of the time... that player goes on to do NOTHING w/ the next team...(meaning the Eagles decision to release is correct WAY more than it isn't)
but now that player has "bad blood", you're holding it against the Eagles.

You are aware that tr1's statement in question was directly attributed to the Eagles cap management, right ?

And you use Trotter, who came to play for you all and is now back w/ the Eagles.... (btw, is he still on the Skins books as dead money ?... seeing as tr1's whole point was about cap management)

And Shawn Barber who LEFT the Redskins to come to the Eagles, but now somehow you use him in your support of your argument against the Eagles as in regards to players leaving ???????


Where do I begin, TE...

Others have listed the players...I couldn't think of a number that came close to that with the Redskins...can you?

When a player knows that there is money allocated to be spent on players under the cap, and management decides to save the money and let the player go, then yes, I believe the player is upset with their 'cap management.'

Look at how the Eagles jerked WB around until they decided they'd had enough of TO. They could have signed them both, without getting close to going over their cap...am I right?

Look, I say things that may get you upset, but I've been given a ton of baggage that I've never said.

And quite frankly, I stil believe the Eagles are in part a major reason (along with about ten other teams) for the predicatment the CBA is in...Upshaw says it all the time...if teams don't spend what's allocated on players, the cap is a joke.

I think he's right...and that's why I'll never criticize the Redskins for spending money....that's what they agreed to do with the union.

But, no Eagle fan cares to address my point because I'm dead on. The Eagles way of cap management is the reason this crisis has occurred.

[TerpsEagles]

Dude, you're spinning around.
I used all those examples of players who left the Eagles disappointed and unappreciated.
I stand by that assessment.

You talk to others about generalizations then you use things like "90% of them go on to do nothing".
And when the Eagles go on to "release" a player because they don't think they are worth it, yes that creates bad blood.
How can you think otherwise?

what am I spinning Dockery ? First off, bad blood, whether there or not, was not part of the discussion until YOU brought it in. Got that ? I'm not arguing that or stating that it doesn't exist... it just wasn't part of what tr1 said and what I called B.S. on until you started alluding to it.

Second, tr1 said, flat out, that there are SO many Eagles players that are just dying to get out of Philadelphia at the first chance they get. You all are aware that the Eagles have one of the highest numbers of players in the 2nd and 3rd years of contracts and are right at the top in numbers of players that have re-signed w/ them. I have a link for this but I have to dig it out...

You all then proceed to give me a list of players. Players that were RELEASED by the Eagles. How the eff does that support the contention that the players are dying to get out ?

Let me help you, it doesn't. Whether there is bad blood or not has no effing bearing on his made up contention.

And talk about spin... you all say that the Eagles have a higher occurance of "these players dying to leave" than other teams... and 2 of the maybe 6-7 players you list as your evidence, left your team to GO TO THE EAGLES.

tr1, why do you bring WB up ? By your contention, he wouldn't have re-signed w/ the Eagles then, right ?... he would have turned it down and waited for his chance at FA to sign elsewhere, right ? You said that players were trying to get out at the first chance. So why did WB re-sign ? Why ?

Very poor choice of an example to try and back up your made up point. Why am I not surprised.

[sableholic]

How come no Eagles fans have come to the defense of the original thread topic?

[dockeryfan]

what am I spinning Dockery ? First off, bad blood, whether there or not, was not part of the discussion until YOU brought it in. Got that ? I'm not arguing that or stating that it doesn't exist... it just wasn't part of what tr1 said and what I called B.S. on until you started alluding to it.

Second, tr1 said, flat out, that there are SO many Eagles players that are just dying to get out of Philadelphia at the first chance they get.

Look, if a player wants more money, and the Eagles tell him no, that means
1) The player wants to leave and
2) The player feels unappreciated.
Maybe it doesn't create bad blood with all of them but it absolutely will with some of them.
Bad blood or ill feeling is part of the discussion because it's part of the scenario.

You were saying players didn't want to leave and they were just being released; no more so than other teams, yet you know Banner has stated that they will only pay certain amounts for certain positions.
I honestly have no idea how you cannot see that that would lead players to want to go to other teams.

[TerpsEagles]

How come no Eagles fans have come to the defense of the original thread topic?

by "original thread topic", do you mean that tr1 just spews nonsense and the actual data and numbers back that up ?

What defense do you need..... he does a good enough job making this very clear on a daily basis just by his posts.

besides... you all have a hard time staying on topic.... what starts out as a debate of one point, quickly becomes something totally else.

I call b.s. on the statement that the Eagles have a lot of player just dying to get out of Philly at the first possible chance.

But instead of debating that point, or providing proof to support that point, here come the SKins posters changing the topic completely to "well there is bad blood when the Eagles release somebody"...

gee, ya think ? irrelevant to the point that I called B.S. too

[dockeryfan]

Look, if a player wants more money, and the Eagles tell him no, that means
1) The player wants to leave and
2) The player feels unappreciated.
Maybe it doesn't create bad blood with all of them but it absolutely will with some of them.
Bad blood or ill feeling is part of the discussion because it's part of the scenario.

You were saying players didn't want to leave and they were just being released; no more so than other teams, yet you know Banner has stated that they will only pay certain amounts for certain positions.
I honestly have no idea how you cannot see that that would lead players to want to go to other teams.

[TerpsEagles]

You were saying players didn't want to leave and they were just being released; no more so than other teams, yet you know Banner has stated that they will only pay certain amounts for certain positions.
I honestly have no idea how you cannot see that that would lead players to want to go to other teams.

Dock... man. That's not what I said at all. I NEVER said that there aren't players who have left Philly. Every team in the NFL has players that leave for other teams... be it for more $$ or more playing time or whatever.

I said that the list you all provided, was a list of players that were mostly released by the Eagles. They way the felt, after being released, has absolutely no bearing on what he said. It was NOT a list of players who left Philly at the first chance they could.

What I asked tr1 for, was some evidence or basis for his statement that there are currently so many players that are just waiting for the first chance to get out of Philly.

Perhaps a list of "current" players who are just dying to get out at the first possible chance?

We are talking about two completely different things.

[tr1]

tr1, why do you bring WB up ? By your contention, he wouldn't have re-signed w/ the Eagles then, right ?... he would have turned it down and waited for his chance at FA to sign elsewhere, right ? You said that players were trying to get out at the first chance. So why did WB re-sign ? Why ?

Very poor choice of an example to try and back up your made up point. Why am I not surprised.

I think it's a great example. It shows how your team treats its talent.

WB held his tongue for the most part, but everyone knew what he was thinking.

And yes, he signed with the team...because it FINALLY coughed up the cash.(because, I think, it was ready to let TO go when initially not wanting to keep WB.)

But, don't you see, with that cap room, they could have had both...they actually had a chance to have a content TO...but they didn't want to pay (or you might call it, 'they managed the cap').

Had we the money last year to sign Pierce and Smoot and not done it, I'd have called the Redskins cheap...but the cap prevented us from doing so.

[TerpsEagles]

did all of us Eagles fans not tell you, for months, almost the exact week that WB's deal would be signed ?

yes or no

[TerpsEagles]

interesting... so you are saying that it was impossible for the Skins to re-sign either Peirce or Smoot ?

Am I clear on that ?

[Westbrook36]

Anyone wonder if WB has ever heard of the fake dollars the Eagles build in to contracts to bloat the appearance of spending in one year to carry over to another? I'm pretty sure he has since he once bragged about it. :).

Art, just about every team in the league uses LBTE incentives. You should know this. The Skins did the same thing this past year and carried 1.1 million dollars over to 06 as a LTBE incentive on Rock Cartwright.

Is Snyder cheap? Or finally, smart?

[tr1]

by "original thread topic", do you mean that tr1 just spews nonsense and the actual data and numbers back that up ?



You really should take time to read my entire posts. :doh:

[tr1]

did all of us Eagles fans not tell you, for months, almost the exact week that WB's deal would be signed ?

yes or no


You mean before TO exploded or after? I remember many thinking that WB was expendable.

[tr1]

interesting... so you are saying that it was impossible for the Skins to re-sign either Peirce or Smoot ?

Am I clear on that ?

Not without wrecking the team...that's the difference. The Eagles could have signed both, stopped the TO outbreak and keep all players happy.

No, instead, they decided not to spend any additional cap on TO because the 'don't renegotiate' no matter what...well look what happened.

[Westbrook36]

Man, he really gets you going.
I happen to agree that it happens to more players on the Eagles, and I'm just going by past results.
If it's any consolation, I don't think it really affects the locker room.

How can you say that when the Eagles have the highest rate of signing young players to second contracts than any team in the NFL? Come on, Dock...smarten up.

[tr1]

Art, just about every team in the league uses LBTE incentives. You should know this. The Skins did the same thing this past year and carried 1.1 million dollars over to 06 as a LTBE incentive on Rock Cartwright.

Is Snyder cheap? Or finally, smart?

Bogus argument. No one uses LTBEs to the extent the Eagles do to create cap and undermine the CBA.

That's why they have all that cap room.

[tr1]

How can you say that when the Eagles have the highest rate of signing young players to second contracts than any team in the NFL? Come on, Dock...smarten up.

Link please.

[Westbrook36]

Where do I begin, TE...

Others have listed the players...I couldn't think of a number that came close to that with the Redskins...can you?

When a player knows that there is money allocated to be spent on players under the cap, and management decides to save the money and let the player go, then yes, I believe the player is upset with their 'cap management.'

Look at how the Eagles jerked WB around until they decided they'd had enough of TO. They could have signed them both, without getting close to going over their cap...am I right?

Look, I say things that may get you upset, but I've been given a ton of baggage that I've never said.

And quite frankly, I stil believe the Eagles are in part a major reason (along with about ten other teams) for the predicatment the CBA is in...Upshaw says it all the time...if teams don't spend what's allocated on players, the cap is a joke.

I think he's right...and that's why I'll never criticize the Redskins for spending money....that's what they agreed to do with the union.

But, no Eagle fan cares to address my point because I'm dead on. The Eagles way of cap management is the reason this crisis has occurred.

Why did the Skins let go of Pierce and Smoot? Two young players coming off great years? Are the Skins cheap? Help me out..

[Westbrook36]

Bogus argument. No one uses LTBEs to the extent the Eagles do to create cap and undermine the CBA.

That's why they have all that cap room.

Why is it bogus? Going by the contention of you and many others on this board, using LBTE incentives is not trying as hard as you can in the current year. You couldn't have used a 1.1 million dollar player against Seattle last year?

[dockeryfan]

Dock... man. That's not what I said at all. I NEVER said that there aren't players who have left Philly. Every team in the NFL has players that leave for other teams... be it for more $$ or more playing time or whatever.

I said that the list you all provided, was a list of players that were mostly released by the Eagles. They way the felt, after being released, has absolutely no bearing on what he said. It was NOT a list of players who left Philly at the first chance they could.

What I asked tr1 for, was some evidence or basis for his statement that there are currently so many players that are just waiting for the first chance to get out of Philly.

Perhaps a list of "current" players who are just dying to get out at the first possible chance?

We are talking about two completely different things.
Maybe you are right.
I'm talking about veteran players wanting to go somewhere else to get their payday, because they know it won't be in Philly. How they felt before they left is just speculation, but we know what Duce, Trotter and Hugh, etc. said while they were waiting to find out. You can't bad mouth a team that you hope to re-sign you; you just end up showing yourself the door.
Most players are just happy to be employed and on an NFL team. As for the young players, I don't think those guys ever want out.

[Westbrook36]

Maybe you are right.
I'm talking about veteran players wanting to go somewhere else to get their payday, because they know it won't be in Philly. How they felt before they left is just speculation, but we know what Duce, Trotter and Hugh, etc. said while they were waiting to find out. You can't bad mouth a team that you hope to re-sign you; you just end up showing yourself the door.
Most players are just happy to be employed and on an NFL team. As for the young players, I don't think those guys ever want out.

You know in your heart that a FO has to make decisions if they want to stay competitive. You just can't pay everyone. Especially if you drafted their replacement 2 years prior in the 1st or 2nd round.

The Skins actually smartened up last year and followed the Eagles philosophy.

[jpgirth]

You know in your heart that a FO has to make decisions if they want to stay competitive. You just can't pay everyone. Especially if you drafted their replacement 2 years prior in the 1st or 2nd round.

The Skins actually smartened up last year and followed the Eagles philosophy.
Joe Gibbs follow Reid :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

10-6/6-10 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[TerpsEagles]

Not without wrecking the team...that's the difference. The Eagles could have signed both, stopped the TO outbreak and keep all players happy.

No, instead, they decided not to spend any additional cap on TO because the 'don't renegotiate' no matter what...well look what happened.

Care to show me an example of where the Skins gave a player more $$, or re-did their deal, after the first year of the deal ?

And I'm not talking about asking a player to re-structure to help w/ cap relief.

[TerpsEagles]

Link please.

sure, just as soon as you provide a link to anything, and I mean ANYTHING that supports your argument that there are all these players just dying for their first chance to bolt and leave the team. Which where this all started this morning to begin with.

[Westbrook36]

tr1 surprised me. He said the Skins would have signed Pierce and Smoot but didn't have enough room under the cap. So Snyder's cap management directly related to not having enough money to sign two of their young stars.

And this guy made a thread saying how the Eagles FO should pattern themselves after the Skins FO.

[dockeryfan]

You know in your heart that a FO has to make decisions if they want to stay competitive. You just can't pay everyone. Especially if you drafted their replacement 2 years prior in the 1st or 2nd round.

The Skins actually smartened up last year and followed the Eagles philosophy.
I don't think so, they still went out in FA/trade to grab Moss, Patten, Stoutmire, Prioleau.
The Redskins like to use FA more than the draft. And they have an owner that doesn't care if he pays more than top dollar.
The Redskins FO uses contracts that are very flexible to manage the cap.
Everyone assumes that what they are doing is somehow going to bite them in the ass, but it never does. Even this year when the cap looked like it was going to be 94.5 mil.
The Eagles philosophy is not the only one that can be successful. That's all I'm saying.

[Westbrook36]

I don't think so, they still went out in FA/trade to grab Moss, Patten, Stoutmire, Prioleau.
The Redskins like to use FA more than the draft. And they have an owner that doesn't care if he pays more than top dollar.
The Redskins FO uses contracts that are very flexible to manage the cap.
Everyone assumes that what they are doing is somehow going to bite them in the ass, but it never does. Even this year when the cap looked like it was going to be 94.5 mil.
The Eagles philosophy is not the only one that can be successful. That's all I'm saying.

But you let go of Smoot and Pierce because you thought you could get their production from cheaper players via players already on your team or planned draft picks.

That is smart.

Why the Eagles get bashed for it is beyong me.

[dockeryfan]

But you let go of Smoot and Pierce because you thought you could get their production from cheaper players via players already on your team or planned draft picks.

That is smart.

Why the Eagles get bashed for it is beyong me.
Seriously, I think the Eagles get bashed when they do things like dick around with Westbrooks contract, when they know damn well that he's staying.
They used the franchise tag to force players to stay. That has never worked out for them.
It's an impression of strong arming the players, and giving them a low ball offer.

I still have the opinion that the TO situation could have been handled better.

I think these things are what drives the reputation.

Plus, Banner looks like Mr. Burns.
http://espn-att.starwave.com/media/nfl/2005/0830/photo/w_banner_195.jpg

[Westbrook36]

When have the Eagles ever used the franchise tag to make a player stay? They tagged Trotter and Simon and released the tag when neither would sign the tender.

[dockeryfan]

When have the Eagles ever used the franchise tag to make a player stay? They tagged Trotter and Simon and released the tag when neither would sign the tender.
They've used the tag as a negotiating tool.
And Westbrook's tender last year. That was insulting as well.

[Westbrook36]

They've used the tag as a negotiating tool.
And Westbrook's tender last year. That was insulting as well.

No one gave him an offer....how insulting could it have been.

So now I ask you, if the Skins apply the same tender on Dockery, would it be an insult.

See, this is a fun game we continually play in here. Skins fans deride the Eagles FO for moves they make and when I ask questions about similar moves the Skins FO makes, everyone changes the subject.

[TerpsEagles]

Should they have just threatened to send him a flat screen tv ?

OR maybe when he's not looking, they could write $6mil out of his contract ?

[Westbrook36]

NO NO NO, WAIT, they could have coerced an elaborate plan to make him out to be stupid to the media in case they ever wanted to cut him!!!!

[tr1]

Care to show me an example of where the Skins gave a player more $$, or re-did their deal, after the first year of the deal ?

And I'm not talking about asking a player to re-structure to help w/ cap relief.

I think they did it with Rock last year...he was getting more playing time, so they re-worked his contract.

[tr1]

Why did the Skins let go of Pierce and Smoot? Two young players coming off great years? Are the Skins cheap? Help me out..

Read my earlier post... :doh:

[Westbrook36]

I think they did it with Rock last year...he was getting more playing time, so they re-worked his contract.

Yeah, they gave him 125 percent of his 05 salary as a bonus for doing such a good job of well, actually doing what they signed him for in the first place.

Had nothing to do with wanting to carry the money over to 06. They were so intent on giving Cartwright the money that they didn't just give it to him.....they added it in his contract as a LBTE incentive.....which he never wound up getting. :(

I'm sure the Skins were pissed as it was their intention to give Cartwright that money and not carry it over to 06.

[tr1]

Why is it bogus? Going by the contention of you and many others on this board, using LBTE incentives is not trying as hard as you can in the current year. You couldn't have used a 1.1 million dollar player against Seattle last year?


Unlike the Eagles, the Redskins gave Rock the LTBE thinking he would EARN IT...but Betts got better, Rock got less time and didn't meet the incentives.

The Skins didn't do LTBE to save cap...that wasn't their INTENTION.

Do you get it now?

[tr1]

Yeah, they gave him 125 percent of his 05 salary as a bonus for doing such a good job of well, actually doing what they signed him for in the first place.

Had nothing to do with wanting to carry the money over to 06. They were so intent on giving Cartwright the money that they didn't just give it to him.....they added it in his contract as a LBTE incentive.....which he never wound up getting. :(

I'm sure the Skins were pissed as it was their intention to give Cartwright that money and not carry it over to 06.


Again, had Betts not recovered, Rock would have made more of that money...but to think the Skins did an LTBE to create cap is ridiculous.

[tr1]

And WB, since you called me out in the first post of this thread, how about answering my questions about LTBE?

That the Eagles use LTBE as a device to create cap is something you'll have to acknowledge some day.

[dockeryfan]

No one gave him an offer....how insulting could it have been.

So now I ask you, if the Skins apply the same tender on Dockery, would it be an insult.

See, this is a fun game we continually play in here. Skins fans deride the Eagles FO for moves they make and when I ask questions about similar moves the Skins FO makes, everyone changes the subject.
Four things.
1) Westbrook is the second most valuable person on that team. Even when TO was there. The deal was for 1.43 mil. That is peanuts for the second most valuable player. Compare that number to Mcnabb and you will see the disparity.
2) The tender was a mid level I believe, so it would have been two picks, a 1st and a 3rd. No team would ever give up that much for WB.
3) If Dockery were to get 1.43 mil this year he would be ecstatic.
4) Comparing Westbrook to Dockery, while flattering to Dockery, is a joke.

[jrockster21]

Man...these Eagles FO spending threads are starting to go the way of the political Tailgate threads...:doh: