michael_33
March-2nd-2006, 10:38 PM
Now I'm not a member their at the KFFL football forums,but I do go in there from time to time ...(it's a site for all the NFL football fans..)
But 1 thing is consistent over their...As usual the redskin fans have to defend themselves on every topic about WASHINGTON...
Whether it's Gibbs,Arrington,Taylor,Cap...whatever..doesn't matter... :doh:
Maybe I should sign up...??I don't know!?
But here was a topic on if you were the owner,which COACH or Great player would you start your organization with and who?
And which in (our) opinion was more important and so...
well...without further ado...read these guys remarks and you will find out exactly what i'm talking about!!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
#1 02-14-2006, 02:55 AM
playa-hater
Free Your Mind Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 651
Great Coach or Great Player
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since this is the offseason , I think this might be a good time to bring up this question which I have wondered about for some time . And I think it may bring some good debate .
The Senario -- If you were an owner of a team and you can have any player or any coach in history , but just one , to build your team around .
Who would you take ?
In fact I would like to make this a 2 part question or senario ? One for your all time pick , then the second for your favorite team .
Examples ; If your were a Giants fan , would it be LT or Parcells ? Niners Montana or Walsh ? NE Brady or BB . Cowboys Jimmy Johnson or Emmit/Aikman ect ...
Obviously with some coaches and players they needed each other inorder to win . But who do you really think is more valuable ect ...
I think the NFL has proven even great coaches can't win without good players while the opposite also applies .
I hoping for some good coach vs coach , coach vs player and player vs player debate .
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#2 02-14-2006, 03:13 AM
tyke1doe
Rejoice N Da Lord Always Join Date: Jun 2002
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Good topic.
I would take the coach for this reason: players come and go but a successful coach is likely going to chose the right players and get you to a Super Bowl during his tenure. And if he hits the jackpot and gets franchise players, he's going to be able to ride a dynasty.
So I'd take Jimmy Johnson over Aikman. The way Johnson assembled that team, I'd like to believe he would have got a quarterback to make the Cowboys click, just as he acquired Emmitt Smith and Jay Novacek and Charles Haley.
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#3 02-14-2006, 03:20 AM
SeanUrlacher54
Draft Bing at #21!!!!! Join Date: Aug 2003
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Bill Belichick without even a doubt in my mind. I mean he knows what he needs for his team and system to work he goes out and gets those players that fit his system. His system works wonders and he has three Super Bowl wins to prove it.
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#4 02-14-2006, 03:23 AM
eaglesnut
LETS GO FLYERS Join Date: Apr 2003
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Great Coach.
The whole thing starts with coaching.
Every player in the league has serious talent and they are relatively interchangable.
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#5 02-14-2006, 03:24 AM
playa-hater
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglesnut
Great Coach.
The whole thing starts with coaching.
Every player in the league has serious talent.
OK , but which one would you take ?
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#6 02-14-2006, 03:32 AM
janos_51
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there still needs to be some other intangibles. I can think of a case not too far back where one of the greatest coaches and one of the greatest players never won a superbowl together...Dan Marino and Don Shula.
I understand the desire for a great coach, but it still has to be won through execution. As an owner, you can fill the stands for a season or two with a great coach, but if the players are not productive, then you won't sell very many tickets.
So I'd take Walter Payton over anyone else, because even on bad teams he still produced and produced well. Payton drew fans in and as an owner, getting to the Superbowl is nice, but selling tickets is where you need to be concerned.
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#7 02-14-2006, 03:47 AM
BionicPatriot
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And winning sells those tickets.
I love Brady, but without a second guess, BB all the way. A great coach lasts and builds a TEAM, a great player builds an individual.
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#8 02-14-2006, 03:54 AM
jaman4
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Gimme Bill Walsh and ill be happy
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#9 02-14-2006, 03:59 AM
eaglesnut
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Quote:
Originally Posted by playa-hater
OK , but which one would you take ?
Like my first two words say and the rest of my post supports I would take the Coach.
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#10 02-14-2006, 04:16 AM
jlid
Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003
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I personally believe that "defense wins championships" is one of the most overused cliche's in sports now and should be replaced with "coaching wins championships", so obviously I would choose the great coach. All a great player can give you is a "strength". What really wins now is the ability to hide weaknesses, and that's the coach's job.
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#11 02-14-2006, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglesnut
Like my first two words say and the rest of my post supports I would take the Coach.
OK , but which COACH would you take ?
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#12 02-14-2006, 05:19 AM
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In the mean time , most posters are going with coaching so far .
I can't believe no one's taking a Johnny Unitas , Jim Brown , Joe Montana , Elway , Marino , Jerry Rice ect....
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#13 02-14-2006, 07:44 AM
Yellowknifer
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I'd take Montana I think.
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#14 02-14-2006, 08:20 AM
jdlewis
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I would take the best Coach... now who would I take in that regard...
Maybe Lombardi but it is a different era now... don't know how he would mesh.. but 11 times his offense and/or defense finished top 2 in the league.
Walsh transcended two eras so he has that going for him. For all the accolades Walsh gets you know his offenses only finished 1st once and 1st once on defense.. which is pretty surprising, never realized that...more teams and all...10 times top 5... 4 on offense and 6 on defense.
Chuck Noll had an amazing run through the 70's just great balance and production.. but his offenses and defenses became decidely average overall with the emergence of the passing game of the 80's.
Paul Brown was a great coach, and a fair majority of his offenses and defenses finished top 3.
Joe Gibbs has been VERY good... never put together consistency though... not a dynasty builder per se. :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:
Shula did great success, but he seemed to fade as the game progressed.
I would have to say I'd probably go Walsh. Good balance of offense/defense. Good player development. coached modern football game very well. The only problem I have is he didn't coach nearly as long as some others, which would be really nice actually to build a 20yr program around the guy, but he did produce and develop alot of great coaches. But, I'd say Walsh 1st Lombardi 2nd.
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#15 02-14-2006, 09:18 AM
Langlier
SHELL-SHOCK BUTCHES! Join Date: Apr 2003
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Posts: 3,546
Gotta be John Madden... he made the raiders what they are today along with Al Davis.
for a player... all time every team it would be Montana... for the raiders... gimme a healthy Bo Jackson
But 1 thing is consistent over their...As usual the redskin fans have to defend themselves on every topic about WASHINGTON...
Whether it's Gibbs,Arrington,Taylor,Cap...whatever..doesn't matter... :doh:
Maybe I should sign up...??I don't know!?
But here was a topic on if you were the owner,which COACH or Great player would you start your organization with and who?
And which in (our) opinion was more important and so...
well...without further ado...read these guys remarks and you will find out exactly what i'm talking about!!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
#1 02-14-2006, 02:55 AM
playa-hater
Free Your Mind Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 651
Great Coach or Great Player
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since this is the offseason , I think this might be a good time to bring up this question which I have wondered about for some time . And I think it may bring some good debate .
The Senario -- If you were an owner of a team and you can have any player or any coach in history , but just one , to build your team around .
Who would you take ?
In fact I would like to make this a 2 part question or senario ? One for your all time pick , then the second for your favorite team .
Examples ; If your were a Giants fan , would it be LT or Parcells ? Niners Montana or Walsh ? NE Brady or BB . Cowboys Jimmy Johnson or Emmit/Aikman ect ...
Obviously with some coaches and players they needed each other inorder to win . But who do you really think is more valuable ect ...
I think the NFL has proven even great coaches can't win without good players while the opposite also applies .
I hoping for some good coach vs coach , coach vs player and player vs player debate .
playa-hater
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#2 02-14-2006, 03:13 AM
tyke1doe
Rejoice N Da Lord Always Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Southeast
Posts: 11,119
Good topic.
I would take the coach for this reason: players come and go but a successful coach is likely going to chose the right players and get you to a Super Bowl during his tenure. And if he hits the jackpot and gets franchise players, he's going to be able to ride a dynasty.
So I'd take Jimmy Johnson over Aikman. The way Johnson assembled that team, I'd like to believe he would have got a quarterback to make the Cowboys click, just as he acquired Emmitt Smith and Jay Novacek and Charles Haley.
tyke1doe
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#3 02-14-2006, 03:20 AM
SeanUrlacher54
Draft Bing at #21!!!!! Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Inbetween Patriots/Red Sox Nation
Posts: 3,208
Bill Belichick without even a doubt in my mind. I mean he knows what he needs for his team and system to work he goes out and gets those players that fit his system. His system works wonders and he has three Super Bowl wins to prove it.
SeanUrlacher54
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#4 02-14-2006, 03:23 AM
eaglesnut
LETS GO FLYERS Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Philly
Posts: 5,782
Great Coach.
The whole thing starts with coaching.
Every player in the league has serious talent and they are relatively interchangable.
eaglesnut
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#5 02-14-2006, 03:24 AM
playa-hater
Free Your Mind Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 651
Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglesnut
Great Coach.
The whole thing starts with coaching.
Every player in the league has serious talent.
OK , but which one would you take ?
playa-hater
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#6 02-14-2006, 03:32 AM
janos_51
Meet ME in a dark alley Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: uh huh
Posts: 1,975
there still needs to be some other intangibles. I can think of a case not too far back where one of the greatest coaches and one of the greatest players never won a superbowl together...Dan Marino and Don Shula.
I understand the desire for a great coach, but it still has to be won through execution. As an owner, you can fill the stands for a season or two with a great coach, but if the players are not productive, then you won't sell very many tickets.
So I'd take Walter Payton over anyone else, because even on bad teams he still produced and produced well. Payton drew fans in and as an owner, getting to the Superbowl is nice, but selling tickets is where you need to be concerned.
janos_51
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#7 02-14-2006, 03:47 AM
BionicPatriot
Re-tooling.. Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: South Florida
Posts: 11,329
And winning sells those tickets.
I love Brady, but without a second guess, BB all the way. A great coach lasts and builds a TEAM, a great player builds an individual.
BionicPatriot
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#8 02-14-2006, 03:54 AM
jaman4
Livin la Vida Guerra Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,274
Gimme Bill Walsh and ill be happy
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#9 02-14-2006, 03:59 AM
eaglesnut
LETS GO FLYERS Join Date: Apr 2003
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Posts: 5,782
Quote:
Originally Posted by playa-hater
OK , but which one would you take ?
Like my first two words say and the rest of my post supports I would take the Coach.
eaglesnut
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#10 02-14-2006, 04:16 AM
jlid
Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 177
I personally believe that "defense wins championships" is one of the most overused cliche's in sports now and should be replaced with "coaching wins championships", so obviously I would choose the great coach. All a great player can give you is a "strength". What really wins now is the ability to hide weaknesses, and that's the coach's job.
jlid
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#11 02-14-2006, 04:19 AM
playa-hater
Free Your Mind Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 651
Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglesnut
Like my first two words say and the rest of my post supports I would take the Coach.
OK , but which COACH would you take ?
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#12 02-14-2006, 05:19 AM
playa-hater
Free Your Mind Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 651
In the mean time , most posters are going with coaching so far .
I can't believe no one's taking a Johnny Unitas , Jim Brown , Joe Montana , Elway , Marino , Jerry Rice ect....
playa-hater
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#13 02-14-2006, 07:44 AM
Yellowknifer
bleedin red & gold Join Date: Jun 2003
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I'd take Montana I think.
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#14 02-14-2006, 08:20 AM
jdlewis
Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: This is the end of the road...
Posts: 8,213
I would take the best Coach... now who would I take in that regard...
Maybe Lombardi but it is a different era now... don't know how he would mesh.. but 11 times his offense and/or defense finished top 2 in the league.
Walsh transcended two eras so he has that going for him. For all the accolades Walsh gets you know his offenses only finished 1st once and 1st once on defense.. which is pretty surprising, never realized that...more teams and all...10 times top 5... 4 on offense and 6 on defense.
Chuck Noll had an amazing run through the 70's just great balance and production.. but his offenses and defenses became decidely average overall with the emergence of the passing game of the 80's.
Paul Brown was a great coach, and a fair majority of his offenses and defenses finished top 3.
Joe Gibbs has been VERY good... never put together consistency though... not a dynasty builder per se. :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:
Shula did great success, but he seemed to fade as the game progressed.
I would have to say I'd probably go Walsh. Good balance of offense/defense. Good player development. coached modern football game very well. The only problem I have is he didn't coach nearly as long as some others, which would be really nice actually to build a 20yr program around the guy, but he did produce and develop alot of great coaches. But, I'd say Walsh 1st Lombardi 2nd.
jdlewis
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#15 02-14-2006, 09:18 AM
Langlier
SHELL-SHOCK BUTCHES! Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,546
Gotta be John Madden... he made the raiders what they are today along with Al Davis.
for a player... all time every team it would be Montana... for the raiders... gimme a healthy Bo Jackson