Kerwin on Ramsey: Joe Gibbs should not settle for less than a 2nd round pick

[kingdaddy]

Pat Kerwin from Sirius Radio just went over all of the QBs in the draft and concluded that Ramsey is the equivalent of a 2nd round pick. He added that the Skins should put a condition on the pick that if Ramsey has a 3000 yd. year, we should get an additional pick as well. He was using the Jets as the example of a possible trading partner. They mentioned that Ramsey has thrown over 30 td's in the NFL and that NFL experience is valuable in trade considerations.
Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmm.........

[RabidFan]

I'm down for that....I'd take a 3rd from the Jets since they are so early on...but a fifth is laughable.....laughable i say.

[terpfan]

Wow, Id be so happy if we could get a 2nd out of him...

[DCsportsfan53]

I still think that the reason we seem to want to trade him to the Jets is because we want Abraham but if not, I agree, if AJ Feely can command a 2nd then we damn well should get at least that for Ramsey.

[Kosher Ham]

I think that the Redskins should try to hold on to Ramsey for the moment.
The closer it gets to the draft, the more intrigued teams will become with shoring up the QB position.

[ntotoro]

A 2nd Round pick for a guy who was the last pick of the first round and was never able to establish himself as a starter in the NFL?

He's dreaming.

[HailYeah]

The Jets 3rd rounder would be nice, their 2nd rounder would flat out change the makeup of our team. We could get an incredible player at that spot.

[KingGibbs]

Give me a 3rd and I'll be happy since the majority are saying 4th or 5th. Anything lower than a 3rd is robbery IMO.

[diesel22]

I said this all along. It is crazy to think it's fair to exchange a veteran NFL QB (with a certain amount of success and unrealized potential) for a pick so low that the guy is likely to not even make your roster !!! I would go no lower than a #2

[diesel22]

Give me a 3rd and I'll be happy since the majority are saying 4th or 5th. Anything lower than a 3rd is robbery IMO.

I for one don't care what people are saying. What exactly are they basing this off of? Are they trying to tell us that AJ Feely had more upside than Patrick Ramsey???? Please !!

[MCnDaHouse]

I think a 3rd is more realistic. Dante Culpepper has added himself to the market. Along with Brees and Kitna it's getting crowded.

MC

[AJ_Skins]

I'm going to make a prediction, but I'm making it hesitantly. I don't think he's going to be traded. I think Ramsey is seeing right now that he's not going to have a situation anywhere else that gives him a clear path to starting, and I think the team is seeing that they're not going to get much for him in return. What's more, the team has got to realize that the QB position is far from secure right now, and the last thing we need to do is weaken it for no reason.

[Om]

All depends on what the market says. If the Jets are the only team seriously interested, we'll have to decide if a 4 or 5 is enough. If another team or two get involved though, we sit there with a poker face and let them bid him up.

[skinswin1]

The Jets 3rd rounder would be nice, their 2nd rounder would flat out change the makeup of our team. We could get an incredible player at that spot.

I agree. I don't think we have a chance in Hell to get a 2nd rounder. But a 3rd round pick would be great!

But...alas..I think in reality we will only get a 5th round pick.

[kingdaddy]

I guess it depends on how he works out for them and how desperate they are. Ramsey is still a prospect in my opinion. He has shown more positives than negatives, and, his negatives are coachable (or correctable). I wouldn't trade him for less than a 3rd.

[diesel22]

I think a 3rd is more realistic. Dante Culpepper has added himself to the market. Along with Brees and Kitna it's getting crowded.

MC


He can't add himself. Ziggy has to comply and i doubt he is gonna rest his franchise's fate on Brad Johnson unless he gets something HUGE out of dealing #11

[chaz13]

I agree that there should be a conditional pick in 07'. If they want to offer a 4th this year w/ a conditional pick next year I'd be fine w/ that. I would say if he starts more than 8 games next year we should get a 3rd in 07'. If the team goes to the playoffs w/ Ramsey starting more than 8 games than a 2nd in 07'.

[redskin-one]

All depends on what the market says. If the Jets are the only team seriously interested, we'll have to decide if a 4 or 5 is enough. If another team or two get involved though, we sit there with a poker face and let them bid him up.

I totally agree. Let interest build. :2cents:

[EnFoRcEr_uPu]

I agree with a little of everything here. I say trade him for the 4th or 5th is that's all we can get, then add a stipulation to his contract that says if he, for example, throws for 3,000+ yards that season, we got a 2nd round pick for the next season(or 3rd if we must settle).

[diesel22]

I agree. I don't think we have a chance in Hell to get a 2nd rounder. But a 3rd round pick would be great!

But...alas..I think in reality we will only get a 5th round pick.



If someone offers a 5th for him I would walk away from the table and indicate that I am very offended.....and will likely not look to do business with that organization in the future...

We don't HAVE to deal him. We should try to make him happy -- he's earned it -- but I certainly would not GIVE him away for a draft pick that probably wont make the roster !

[kingdaddy]

Kerwin and Randy Cross compared Ramsey to all of the QB's who are projected to go in the 1st round this year. Believe it or not, Kerwin actually said that if Gibbs wanted to, he could shop Patrick for a future 1st round pick, not in this years draft. But, he said, since Gibbs is a short-timer, he should take the 2nd this year with a possible conditional pick next year if Ramsey does well this season.

[diesel22]

Kerwin and Randy Cross compared Ramsey to all of the QB's who are projected to go in the 1st round this year. Believe it or not, Kerwin actually said that if Gibbs wanted to, he could shop Patrick for a future 1st round pick, not in this years draft. But, he said, since Gibbs is a short-timer, he should take the 2nd this year with a possible conditional pick next year if Ramsey does well this season.

That sounds like a realistic deal -- I would pull the trigger on that

[celts32]

I for one don't care what people are saying. What exactly are they basing this off of? Are they trying to tell us that AJ Feely had more upside than Patrick Ramsey???? Please !!

You can't use one horrible trade by Miami as basis to conclude that Rasmey is worth a #2 pick. That was one of the dumbess trades in history. Every half way decent player in the league must be worth a #1 pick if you use the AJ Feeley trade as your basis.

[AJ_Skins]

Maybe somebody else can explain to me...why would we want to throw him away for nothing? How does that make the team better? Do we have a young, healthy, proven QB firmly entrenched in the starting role? No. We have a bunch of question marks.

Based on his comments at the combine, I don't think Gibbs is in any hurry to get rid of him. I think he's obliging Ramsey's request to "see what's out there", and I think it's turning out that "what's out there" ain't much at all...

[HapHaszard]

All depends on what the market says. If the Jets are the only team seriously interested, we'll have to decide if a 4 or 5 is enough. If another team or two get involved though, we sit there with a poker face and let them bid him up.
Why do I envision a guy with a gavel going "We got a fo fo fo forth round pick, do I hear a three three three, now we gotta two due due, going once, twice.
Sold for a second round pick to team 23.

[kingdaddy]

Maybe somebody else can explain to me...why would we want to throw him away for nothing? How does that make the team better? Do we have a young, healthy, proven QB firmly entrenched in the starting role? No. We have a bunch of question marks.

Based on his comments at the combine, I don't think Gibbs is in any hurry to get rid of him. I think he's obliging Ramsey's request to "see what's out there", and I think it's turning out that "what's out there" ain't much at all...

I would guess that the only reason we deal him is for salary cap relief and so we don't have a malcontent hanging around.

[JPM285181]

Considering that Ramsey is such a low salary (by comparison) and is still young and in my opinion going to turn out to be a very good NFL QB the only way I think that they should let him go is if they get such a good offer that they almost cant refuse. To just "settle" on a low round draft pick would be foolish and Norvous like.

[Peregrine]

The market is getting crowded? The QB market can NOT get too crowded. Look at JUST the NFC alone, and we didnt even have 3 probowl worthy QBs last year, that leaves 13 teams without a pro-bowl worthy QB. At least a good 7-8 of those didnt even have a decent QB, so its hard to over crowd a market where the QB play has been terrible. Ramsey is worth at minimum a 3rd.

[JPM285181]

I would guess that the only reason we deal him is for salary cap relief and so we don't h ave a malcontent hanging around. Ramsey is low against the cap. Lower than many backups. What makes him a malcontent is the very same thing that I believe will make him successful when his time comes.

[skindogger47]

The Jets third rounder is like a low second rounder anyway, but maybe we could trade Ram and our #3 for their #2.

[ntotoro]

Maybe somebody else can explain to me...why would we want to throw him away for nothing?

1) He wants out.
2) If he doesn't go now, he'll be gone for literally nothing next year.

[In Flames]

a jets 2nd is the new high 1st, i mean, they pick what, 4th or 5th?

[dadirtbags]

2nd or 3rd would be nice....having him remain on this skins roster would be a mistake unless he was willing to take on that role of possibly being benched without a future under Gibbs!!!! Gibbs would only use Pat as a backup.....I think a 3rd or 4th is more realistic though.

[ouvan59]

The problem is that nobody is coming close to offering a 2nd rounder. It would be nice if Ramsey were a robot and was fine being the team's #3 but Joe Gibbs has made it abundently clear that he isn't what Gibbs wants as a starter. Gibbs made a promise to Ramsey and from everything I know about Joe Gibbs he will keep it.

Ramsey is gone and personally I doubt we get anything higher than a 4th for him. There just aren't that many teams looking for a starting QB and quite a few options out there.

[Om]

I think AJ makes the most sense on this Board ... Ramsey is worth more to the Skins than any risky draft choice (except perhaps a # 1) ... we should keep him until our QB situation crystalizes.

This makes sense ... but it also assumes that is all there is to the equation. It isn't as simple as all that. What it does not account for are all the things we cannot know at this point ... such as Ramsey's desire to be here any more and committment to what they might ask of him, Gibbs' feel for how Ramsey's desire to be here or not impacts the locker room, Gibbs' and Saunders' feel about Ramsey insofar as how he can operate within their scheme, plans the team might have to bring in another QB they believe might be a better fit going forward, etc.

Any balanced assessment of a player's "worth" to a team HAS to at least be attempted to be viewed through a broad lens.

[WeownU]

A 2nd Round pick for a guy who was the last pick of the first round and was never able to establish himself as a starter in the NFL?

He's dreaming.

I agree. Ramsey is a bum. If you can get a 4th round pick for him, you better jump all over it.

[MoeRedskins]

I'm going to make a prediction, but I'm making it hesitantly. I don't think he's going to be traded. I think Ramsey is seeing right now that he's not going to have a situation anywhere else that gives him a clear path to starting, and I think the team is seeing that they're not going to get much for him in return. What's more, the team has got to realize that the QB position is far from secure right now, and the last thing we need to do is weaken it for no reason.

No way dude, its already been decided that Ramsey is well on his way outta here. He might not have a clear path to start elsewhere, but it will be much more clear than it is here.

[rlhjr34]

I say a 3rd rounder is a resonable pick for Ramsey. The fact that we'll be using his 1.7 cap space to add a starter in FA and possibly get a good depth person (maybe a starter) with the 3rd round pick is superior to having a back up QB that won't be on the roster for sure next year.

[AJ_Skins]

I would guess that the only reason we deal him is for salary cap relief and so we don't have a malcontent hanging around.

I don't think there's much chance of being a malcontent. While his salary cap number is not totally insignificnt, it's not huge either. Now that the CBA is done, we're not going to be under the kind of pressure we were before.

If I was just looking at this team from the outside, and not as a fan, I would see one of the top defenses in the league, a strong offensive line, a Pro Bowl running back, and one Pro Bowl wide receiver. The team probably needs to do something at WR (although how Patten heals and contributes is a big factor in how drastic that needs to be), a nickel corner, and some kind of addition at LB. All of those needs could be met without huge expenditures. QB is the biggest question mark on the team, by far.

[AJ_Skins]

1) He wants out.

That's not a good enough reason.


2) If he doesn't go now, he'll be gone for literally nothing next year.

If what we're looking at is a second day pick, or even a second or third round pick, then what we're giving up is that reward for a much more secure QB position this coming season. As an example, we used a 2nd round draft pick on Taylor Jacobs...

[AJ_Skins]

No way dude, its already been decided that Ramsey is well on his way outta here. He might not have a clear path to start elsewhere, but it will be much more clear than it is here.

Then why did Gibbs say last week "we know he wants to do what he feels is best, but we have to do what's best for the team" and "I'm not sure it's going to happen"? Maybe you're smarter than I am.

[AJ_Skins]

I agree. Ramsey is a bum. If you can get a 4th round pick for him, you better jump all over it.

Hey look, Dallas has spoken.

[AJ_Skins]

This makes sense ... but it also assumes that is all there is to the equation. It isn't as simple as all that. What it does not account for are all the things we cannot know at this point ... such as Ramsey's desire to be here any more and committment to what they might ask of him, Gibbs' feel for how Ramsey's desire to be here or not impacts the locker room, Gibbs' and Saunders' feel about Ramsey insofar as how he can operate within their scheme, plans the team might have to bring in another QB they believe might be a better fit going forward, etc.

Any balanced assessment of a player's "worth" to a team HAS to at least be attempted to be viewed through a broad lens.

I guess what I'm saying is that I think part of that is being answered right now. When Ramsey realizes that there really aren't much greener pastures out there, his view of things may very well change. As for the team's perspective, I don't think they're concerned about his attitude after the way he handled things last year. I think they would be hard pressed to find a QB they could acquire who would be similar in ability or better, for the same or lower price, but if they did go that route, I would understand getting rid of him for not much in return a little better. The one advantage Ramsey has even over such a QB is that he's been with the staff for two years, and anybody they bring in will have to adjust, potentially limiting their worth next year.

[phattymatt]

No one is going to give us a 2nd round pick for Ramsey.

[Bigmuss1]

We drafted him in round one, why settle for anything less?

[CPstretch]

yeah that is wishful thinking, but he hasnt exactly played up to the hype of a first round pick to this point.

[ntotoro]

That's not a good enough reason.

That, 99/100 times, has always been good enough reason for Coach Gibbs.


If what we're looking at is a second day pick, or even a second or third round pick, then what we're giving up is that reward for a much more secure QB position this coming season. As an example, we used a 2nd round draft pick on Taylor Jacobs...

The #3 guy on the totem pole isn't a huge, huge loss. We're not getting a second-rounder for Ramsey. He's not worth it. Either the team gets something for him now, or loses him and any chance of compensation after the season.

[phattymatt]

We drafted him in round one, why settle for anything less?


because we've shown everyone else that he is a bum. it's either settle for less or get nothing.

[CPstretch]

exactly. we should take what we can get for him, in addition to saving us 1.7 mil in cap room.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I would do cartwheels if we got a 4th round pick out of him.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

We drafted him in round one, why settle for anything less?

Because his career has stunk so far.

[AJ_Skins]

The #3 guy on the totem pole isn't a huge, huge loss. We're not getting a second-rounder for Ramsey. He's not worth it. Either the team gets something for him now, or loses him and any chance of compensation after the season.

Personally, I wouldn't look at a team that has an aging and often-injured Brunell backed up by a second year QB who's never played in a real game and feel secure at all, especially when you have a team poised to contend next year. With our situation being what it is, I think the best thing would be bascially a wide-open competition with the three QBs now on the roster. No need to set the depth chart in advance.

With Brunell, Ramsey and Campbell, you could figure you have a strong chance to fashion some kind of performance out of one of those or some combination. If you only have Brunell and Campbell, you're counting on things that are unlikely:

1) Brunell stays healthy for an entire season.

2) Campbell steps in ready to win a championship in his first year playing.

This is assuming what the whole team has indicated since the end of the season is true...that the first and foremost goal of the entire organization is to improve upon last year's finish. If that's not true, I think there are a lot of players on defense who are going to be very angry. As for me, somebody wake me up in 2007.

[ntotoro]

Personally, I wouldn't look at a team that has an aging and often-injured Brunell backed up by a second year QB who's never played in a real game and feel secure at all, especially when you have a team poised to contend next year. With our situation being what it is, I think the best thing would be bascially a wide-open competition with the three QBs now on the roster. No need to set the depth chart in advance.

And you would be wrong.

Ramsey's as good as gone. Even if he weren't, he'd have about a 10% chance of being the starter.

Coach Gibbs already said he'd be comfortable last year if he had to put in Campbell. The rules say the #2 guy has to go if the #1 goes down, though. You can't just pick which backup to put in if you lose your #1 during a game.

I know you have this giant man-crush on him and think that, for some strange reason, the 'Skins should keep him by any means necessary, but he's gone. It's a fact of life. Accept it. Whatever we get, we get. They've already given him permission to shop himself, so he's good as gone.

[TheREALJBird]

Skins need to play hardball with Ramsey, IF more than one team is interested....try to get a 3rd out of it

[flexxskins]

I still think that the reason we seem to want to trade him to the Jets is because we want Abraham but if not, I agree, if AJ Feely can command a 2nd then we damn well should get at least that for Ramsey.I am hoping that that is the exact example that we are using in our trade negotiations with the NYJ. The fact that AJ Feely was worth a 2nd should prove to be very valuable ammunition.

[AJ_Skins]

And you would be wrong.

Ramsey's as good as gone. Even if he weren't, he'd have about a 10% chance of being the starter.

Coach Gibbs already said he'd be comfortable last year if he had to put in Campbell. The rules say the #2 guy has to go if the #1 goes down, though. You can't just pick which backup to put in if you lose your #1 during a game.

I know you have this giant man-crush on him and think that, for some strange reason, the 'Skins should keep him by any means necessary, but he's gone. It's a fact of life. Accept it. Whatever we get, we get. They've already given him permission to shop himself, so he's good as gone.


Gibbs's comments at the combine sounded to me as if he's hesitant to trade Ramsey, maybe even leaning against it. I think they're indulging his request to shop himself around, but they're not in as much of a hurry to get rid of him as some people here think. Maybe I'm wrong.

You have to look at the reality of the landscape. The only teams with any reported interest in Ramsey at this point are the Jets, Lions, and Dolphins. The Jets have the #4 pick in the draft, the Lions #9, and the Dolphins #16. On top of that, there are other more highly regarded QBs who are unrestricted free agents...Drew Brees and Jon Kitna among them...and Culpeper wants out of Minnesota. Ramsey is not going to be on the top of anybody's list in this kind of market.

[stevenaa]

He's not projected as a starter in this league. He's projected as a backup or a stop gap at best. Take the 4th and move along. That's as good as it's gonna get. He has been a stand up team guy. I say let him go.

[ntotoro]

He's not projected as a starter in this league. He's projected as a backup or a stop gap at best. Take the 4th and move along. That's as good as it's gonna get. He has been a stand up team guy. I say let him go.

I think the interest in him (or relative lack of) has shown what the opinion is of him around the league right now. It won't get any better.

[AJ_Skins]

He's not projected as a starter in this league. He's projected as a backup or a stop gap at best. Take the 4th and move along. That's as good as it's gonna get. He has been a stand up team guy. I say let him go.

In your vision, who do we replace him with if we just drop for little to no return? Some nobody, or a free agent? If so, who?

[Loxley]

Just because a consumer walks into a store doesnt mean he is going to buy from that store. Likewise, Gibbs is obviously honouring his committment to Ramsey in that he said hed explore all options. However if what is on offer for his goods isnt up to the value, he has every right to walk out and not deal.

Id be happy with a 3rd rounder i thnk, 2nd could be a long shot unless its a low 2nd but less than a 3rd is a rip off imo.

[TaylorPickSix]

If we got the Jets 2nd rounder I'd go nuts, because we would most likely get two of the three:
D'Qwell Jackson
Maurice Stovall
Cedric Griffin

WORD.

[AJ_Skins]

If we got the Jets 2nd rounder I'd go nuts, because we would most likely get two of the three:
D'Qwell Jackson
Maurice Stovall
Cedric Griffin

WORD.

The thing is, the Jets have the 4th pick in the draft, and they already have a young QB in Pennington. They will certainly have a shot at Leinart, Young or Cutler, maybe all three, and Kitna is out there, who would be perfect to plug in until one of those guys is ready.

[AJ_Skins]

Just because a consumer walks into a store doesnt mean he is going to buy from that store. Likewise, Gibbs is obviously honouring his committment to Ramsey in that he said hed explore all options. However if what is on offer for his goods isnt up to the value, he has every right to walk out and not deal.

Id be happy with a 3rd rounder i thnk, 2nd could be a long shot unless its a low 2nd but less than a 3rd is a rip off imo.

The thing that burns me is that the Dolphins were begging to give us a first round pick (#19) for him in 2004 when Gibbs brought in Brunell. We had the #5 pick in that same draft and used on Sean (now in legal jeopardy) Taylor. We could have drafted Roethlisberger outright at #5 and gotten somebody like Chris Gamble at #19, or we could have used those two first round picks to deal for Eli Manning.

Instead we kept Ramsey, put him in at the end of 2004, watched him outplay Brunell by every measure that year, then drafted Cambell and yanked him in the first quarter of week one, sending the message to the entire league that there was something horribly wrong with him as a player. When a Hall of Fame coach like Joe Gibbs sends that kind of signal, who else is going to want to him? If Joe Gibbs can't do anything with him, he must be the worst player in the history of the game.

[Jumbo]

Well, I read the whole thread. I'm gonna be pretty alone here, but his is my take:

We should take the first offer we get of a 3rd or even 4th round.

We are already getting less this year than if we had moved last year, though I understand why we didn't.

I am concerned we will continue to drop in what we will get if we play around too much, like down to a 5th or 6th rounder.

I am concerned that people here value ramsey much more than anywhere else, and they believe we are going to get rid of him anyway.

I was hoping we could package him with someone but there's no one other than Tyler or the guys we all knew would get cut that I would feel good about losing.

I cannot see Ramsey's presence in the lockeroom as the #3 QB as being best for the evolving chemistry of the team.

Plus if we kept him instead of picking up some vet, we'll get nothing for him next year. I'd rather trade his cost for a 4th and a vet now, than just keep him for another year and get bupkuss afterwards.

[AJ_Skins]

Well, I read the whole thread. I'm gonna be pretty alone here, but his is my take:

We should take the first offer we get of a 3rd or even 4th round.

We are already getting less this year than if we had moved last year, though I understand why we didn't.

I am concerned we will continue to drop in what we will get if we play around too much, like down to a 5th or 6th rounder.

I am concerned that people here value ramsey much more than anywhere else, and they believe we are going to get rid of him anyway.

I was hoping we could package him with someone but there's no one other than Tyler or the guys we all knew would get cut that I would feel good about losing.

I cannot see Ramsey's presence in the lockeroom as the #3 QB as being best for the evolving chemistry of the team.

Plus if we kept him instead of picking up some vet, we'll get nothing for him next year. I'd rather trade his cost for a 4th and a vet now, than just keep him for another year and get bupkuss afterwards.

The difference between a third or fourth round pick or less and nothing at all is not a huge difference. What we will regret painfully next year is if Brunell goes down, which he almost certainly will at some point, and Campbell is in over his head. If we hadn't had Ramsey this past year in the Giants game, we would not have made the playoffs.

[ntotoro]

The difference between a third or fourth round pick or less and nothing at all is not a huge difference. What we will regret painfully next year is if Brunell goes down, which he almost certainly will at some point, and Campbell is in over his head. If we hadn't had Ramsey this past year in the Giants game, we would not have made the playoffs.

Coach Gibbs would disagree with those comments about Campbell.

Matter of fact, he said so himself last year.

[jrockster21]

Pat Kerwin from Sirius Radio just went over all of the QBs in the draft and concluded that Ramsey is the equivalent of a 2nd round pick. He added that the Skins should put a condition on the pick that if Ramsey has a 3000 yd. year, we should get an additional pick as well. He was using the Jets as the example of a possible trading partner. They mentioned that Ramsey has thrown over 30 td's in the NFL and that NFL experience is valuable in trade considerations.
Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmm.........

I've been saying this for awhile...Ramsey is definitely worth a 2nd rounder. He's a known quantity...all the rookie QBs are unknowns (as far as how they'll perform in the NFL). For every Peyton Manning, there are 5 Heath Shulers. :)

[Om]

http://users.telenet.be/antoon.soens/images/don-quijote-door-salvador-dali.jpg

[AJ_Skins]

Coach Gibbs would disagree with those comments about Campbell.

Matter of fact, he said so himself last year.

I think Coach Gibbs likes to make positive comments about players, but I think it would be a mistake to bet too heavily on Campbell, or any other player who has never been in a game. Again, especially if our goal is to do better next year than we did last year, which is what everyone associated with the team has said.

As I've said before, if we can get somebody who's pretty reliable to replace him, I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it. Can we afford somebody like Kitna? Would he be able to step in and contribute immediately if needed? I don't know about that. I do know Ramsey has played well for the team in the past, and nobody is blowing us away with an offer.

[Clark84]

Pat Kerwin from Sirius Radio just went over all of the QBs in the draft and concluded that Ramsey is the equivalent of a 2nd round pick. He added that the Skins should put a condition on the pick that if Ramsey has a 3000 yd. year, we should get an additional pick as well. He was using the Jets as the example of a possible trading partner. They mentioned that Ramsey has thrown over 30 td's in the NFL and that NFL experience is valuable in trade considerations.
Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmm.........
Kerwin usually speaks with logic. Makes no sense to trade Ramsey just to trade him. If we cannot get at least a 3rd rounder then hang onto him for next year. As training camp approaches someone will be desperate and pull the trigger anyways.

[Hail Gibbs]

The Jets third rounder is like a low second rounder anyway, but maybe we could trade Ram and our #3 for their #2.

That is kind of what I was thinking. Since the Jets select so high in each round I think dealing our 2nd rounder and Ramsey for the Jets 2nd and 3rd could work. We would improve around 20 spots in the 2nd and get the 4th pick in the 3rd round. They get Ramsey and still have a 2nd rounder.

[Lil Kenzo]

A second round pick from the Jets does not sound to bad.

[Jon T.]

Not gonna happen. I do think that some team is going to get a bargain by trading for Ramsey. He's a steal even for a 3rd round pick. But the Redskins will be lucky to get that. There's just no market.

[RWJ]

I would be happy with the Jet's 4th round pick. With Culpepper more than likely soon to be on the market, Ramsey's price just went down.

[jrockster21]

http://users.telenet.be/antoon.soens/images/don-quijote-door-salvador-dali.jpg

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :rotflmao: :laugh: :laugh: :rotflmao:

:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

I smell a new avatar??? :laugh:

[Brianbien83]

Am I the only one who remembers that both Brees and Culpepper went down with serious injuries last year? Brees on his throwing shoulder and Culpepper completely shredded his knee. Lavar tears a meniscus and is out for essentially two years, Culpepper tore EVERYTHING. As for Pennington, that guy had a rag arm to begin with and he's had two surgeries on his throwing shoulder in two years. I don't see why Ramsey, a guy with an absolute cannon and no major injuries in his career, is that far behind these guys. A dumber move by the Phins would be to use their cap room on a guy who just tore his labrum. A dumber move by any team would be to give up the farm for Culpepper, who may never be able to move the way he did before the injury. I don't think a third is unreasonable, and a package deal for a second may even be possible.

[inmate running the asylum]

Why don't the Skins ask for a CONDITIONAL 3rd round pick, that can become a 2nd round pick based on his playing time? :D

[Cskin]

I'm with AJ here.... I think a team ponies up a 2nd or 3rd or we simply keep him. There is a reason Gibbs said he'd accomodate Ramsey seeking a trade... but that ANY trade would have to make sense for both of us. That's the cushion right there.... that we'd trade Ramsey if it made sense for us. Well... if it's not a 2nd or 3rd.... which is what we think the FO thinks "makes sense"... than we simply keep him.

Additionally, Ramsey hasn't been told he'd be given the starting job anyway. Reports are that both the phins and the jets consider him a backup. Well...why would he demand to be traded to be the backup somewhere else when he could simply stay here and be the backup. Whether it's Campbell's or Brunell's what difference does it make?

No... Ramsey is smart and has the tools to be a starting QB. If someoone wants him, they'll pay our asking price. If not... well then we tell Ramsey it didn't make sense and start preparing to compete for the job in late March.

Ramsey's gumption to look for Moss downfield in the Giant game propelled us to the win. If Ramsey clams up and the offense sputters.... the G-men could have gotten on tract and beaten us...essentially knocking us from playoff contention. Can we risk not having someone like that backing up our starter? Could Ramsey over time become the starter, potentially due to injury at first and then simply not relinquish the job due to his performance on the field? I think those are valid questions..... worth either getting a 2nd or 3rd for him or keeping him.

End of story...

[[[ghost]]]

we should get a late second.

[PCRoughrider]

I wouldn't take anything lower than a third rounder. A fourth or lower is not worth much more than the nothing we're going to get next year when he leaves as a UFA.

And his cap figure isn't prohibitive and we'd likely sign a third quarterback, anyway.

[the burgundy and gold]

I said this all along. It is crazy to think it's fair to exchange a veteran NFL QB (with a certain amount of success and unrealized potential) for a pick so low that the guy is likely to not even make your roster !!! I would go no lower than a #2


i agree with you 100%

[bulldog]

let's see which teams suffer injuries or don't get the player they want in the draft. then we will see what we can get for Ramsey. I would be loathe to take the first deal that comes along if it is for a pick lower than round 3.

The idea of trading #11 for a #5 pick is a joke. #5 picks are developmental players with about a 50/50 shot of being able to make an NFL roster.

We know that Ramsey is an NFL player and can make an NFL roster as a backup and serviceable starter.

[iceman330]

A 2nd round pick is not a bad idea. PR throws darts, has guts and can be dangerous. Provided he's throwing in rythm, that is, the ball is leaving his hand just after he plants. He has problems, it seems, with plays that take a time to develop. But when he can set and let it go, he's fine. Moreover, his arm-strength is better than most in the NFL. Hopefully, he can get his confidence back.

[we_want_56]

I'd take a second or a third. Or a player who can make an impact right away.

[SKiNz Jus 2 sick]

Pat Kerwin from Sirius Radio just went over all of the QBs in the draft and concluded that Ramsey is the equivalent of a 2nd round pick. He added that the Skins should put a condition on the pick that if Ramsey has a 3000 yd. year, we should get an additional pick as well. He was using the Jets as the example of a possible trading partner. They mentioned that Ramsey has thrown over 30 td's in the NFL and that NFL experience is valuable in trade considerations.
Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmm.........music to my ears

[skeenzfan]

If AJ feeley can be traded for 2nd round then ramsey should also go for a 2nd. Starting qb's with 30 starts on their resume with no injury problems are not that easy to find. Plus Ramsey is still thought of as not having reached his potential so he is likely to get better with playing time. Also the fact that Ramsey won't have to given a monster contract should be appealing to teams.
IMO he will turn out to be a great pickup for some team just like Delhomme was a couple of years back.

[RDSKNfaithfull]

If nobody gives up at least a third for him hold on to him and trade him during the season. A Qbs Value is a lot more when say your down to Brooks Bollinger mid season.

[Tastes Like Chicken]

Ramsey's stats are mediocre at best, lifetime backup at worst. I'll take a 4th or a bologna sandwich for him.

[kingchris626]

nobody is going to give us what he is actually worth. That being said we're going to end up with a 4th or 5th rounder for him. No doubt about it

[Tarpon75]

I have been saying all along that the Skins should not give Ramsey away.He has to much upside.
He still could turn out to be a better than average NFL qb in my opinion.A lot of his weaknesses can be improved with good coaching and the right situation.I don't think you can question his arm strength,toughness,or charachter,qualities that are not that easy to come by.How can he not be worth more than a 4th rounder that might never make any team?As stated before Pat at is at least a very solid #2 qb.Shouldn't that be worth more than a 3rd or 4th rounder?

[318 SKIN]

Gibbs has said he does not want to have a player that does not want to be here. I think the one thing everyone seems to agree on is that PR is a great guy. That opinion might change if Gibbs doesn't trade or cut him - i'm sure they will not see him until he absolutely has to report in August. Forget all the off season camps and workouts.....

[CoachingWinsChampionships]

Why don't the Skins ask for a CONDITIONAL 3rd round pick, that can become a 2nd round pick based on his playing time? :D

I'm all for getting a higher pick even it means waiting a year to get it. Regardless of where the Jets draft next year, a second is always higher than a third. The one problem is that he's not guaranteed to play there, so Chad Pennington could take them to the Superbowl next year(not saying its likely) w/o Ramsey ever seeing the field next year and we'd be stuck with a pick late in the third round(almost a fourth rounder) in the 2007 draft. It's a risk I'm not sure I'd be willing to take if I was the Redskins FO, plus I'm not sure I'd want to wait.

I definitely agree with others that we should package Ramsey with other picks to get something of real value in return like lets say for instance- the Raider's #7 pick in the first round(Vernon Davis=#2WR/BEAST) for Ramsey, our second rounder this year and our first and third round picks next year-(that's the lowball offer we'd send Al Davis). Just a random example there....:).

[Om]

Gibbs has said he does not want to have a player that does not want to be here. I think the one thing everyone seems to agree on is that PR is a great guy. That opinion might change if Gibbs doesn't trade or cut him - i'm sure they will not see him until he absolutely has to report in August. Forget all the off season camps and workouts.....

Posts that make you go "hmm ..."

Thanks, 318. Confirms my thinking on this one.