All NFC EAST TEAM

[apickmans]

Just wondering if you guys had to make an all NFC East team, what players would you pick?? Heres mine:

Offense
QB:Mcnabb
WRs:Moss, TO
RB: Portis
TE:Shockey
HB:Cooley!(i dont think the other teams use one)
LT:C.Samuels
OGs: Randy Thomas, Shawn Andrews(i know hes young but hes a mauler)
C:Casey Rabach
RT:Jon Jansen .....haha so maybe i picked all skins offensive line

Defense
DEs:Jevon Kearse, Michael Strahan (almost went with Osi. but i still like the freak better)
DT: Griffin, Jason Ferguson(would of gone with glover, but hes gone and besides they switched to 3-4)
OLB:Washington duh, D.Ware
ILB:Antonio Pierce
CBs: Shawn Springs, Sheldon Brown
FS: Sean Taylor
SS: Roy Williams

Coach: Gibbs

I hope i wasnt being too much of a homer.

[TheREALJBird]

Seems pretty legit to me

[kevinklein]

Mine would be pretty much identicle to that. I'd throw in Plaxico as the #3 reciever, and B. Lloyd as the #4.

[GhostOfLamontHollinquest]

Based on last season, you could swap Pierce out for Lemar Marshall.

[GhostOfLamontHollinquest]

Oh, and William Joseph could be better than Jason Ferguson.

[SkinsNoles21]

kearse sucks

[skns4life]

yeah that is being too much of a homer...where's Steve Smith?? Shawn Alexander? Hutchinson?

[apickmans]

its nfc EAST team.......not NFC conference team.

[GhostOfLamontHollinquest]

yeah that is being too much of a homer...where's Steve Smith?? Shawn Alexander? Hutchinson?

It's an all NFC East team, not all NFC.

[speedmike]

Very good original post. Not too farmiliar with the other teams' centers, so I guess Rabach's a good a choice as any. Kearse is definitely not the best DE. I'd definitely put Osi and Carter ahead of him.

[terpfan]

No argument from me but I would put Osi ahead of Kearse. Other than that it looks good.

[aussieskin]

I would rather anyone but the horse collarer

[Enter Apotheosis]

It's kind of difficult to have too much variance when it comes to the all-NFC East team. Most of the positions really do have an obvious choice... anyway, here's what I came up with (slightly different perspective):

Offense
QB: Donovan McNabb
RB: Clinton Portis
FB: Mike Sellers
WR: Santana Moss
WR: Terrell Owens
WR: Plaxico Burress
TE: Chris Cooley
TE: Jeremy Shockey
LT: Chris Samuels
LG: Randy Thomas (right or left makes no diff)
C: Casey Rabach
RG: Shawn Andrews
RT: Jon Jansen

Defense
DE: Michael Strahan
DT: Cornelius Griffin
DT: Mike Patterson (Ferguson ONLY if it's a 3-4)
DE: Osi Umenyiora/Andre Carter (trust me on this one)
LOLB: Marcus Washington
MLB: Antonio Pierce/Lemar Marshall
ROLB: Demarcus Ware
CB: Shawn Springs
CB: Lito Sheppard
CB: Carlos Rogers/Sheldon Brown
FS: Sean Taylor
SS: Roy Williams/Adam Archuleta/Michael Lewis (pick one, who cares?)

Coaches
HC: Gibbs
OC: Saunders
DC: Williams

[philal0102]

very original.... i like it.

[az1041]

I love portis and all, but if we are being real... Tiki had a better year last year. So i would put him at RB and Portis a close 2nd. Although portis did a lot of "other" things that helped us win games besides just run the ball, Tiki had an amazing year and both are great players. Tiki gets the nod for now!

[BigRay]

Pretty good but I wouldn't put Roy Williams there sorry but he is overrated..

[Redskins4ever]

I would have Mark Brunell be the starting QB, not McNabb. Also I would also place Tiki Barber in the backfield. Chris Cooley would be the TE and the WRs would be Plexico Buress and Santana Moss.


As far as defense, Michael Strahan, Cornelius Griffin, Jevon Kearse, Marcus Washington, Sean Taylor, Brian Dawkins, Antonio Pierce, Demarcus Ware, Shawn Springs, and Lito Sheppard.

[ChiefPowhatan17]

Why would McNabb be the quarterback after his awful season last year?

[cuchip703]

I think we have some true homers here...

As much as I think Portis is a phenomenal back, I have to give Tiki the edge there. Also, Brian Dawkins definitely needs to be there at Safety with Taylor. Osi and Strahan on the DL should be givens. Jason Witten is a pretty good TE in his own right as well. As for McNabbs awful year...have you ever had a sports hernia, its not an easy thing to deal with....I will give him the benefit of the doubt vs. Brunell, Bledsoe, and a young Eli. Someone gave Carlos Rogers the nod over someone no one mentioned either, Terrance Newman. Though he had a poor second year, he played much like his rookie year last. Another no mention though, and I think he plays the DT position rather well is Big Joe S. , he was becoming a real force last year

[cuchip703]

Why would McNabb be the quarterback after his awful season last year?

Honestly, and be honest now, if you were a GM and your QB was either Brunell, Eli, or Bledsoe and the Eagles offered you McNabb straight up, would you or would you not take that deal.....outside of Eli, who is young...its a real no brainer...

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I find it hard to accept that 80 percent of the All-division team comes from the second-place squad.

[the burgundy and gold]

Why would McNabb be the quarterback after his awful season last year?


who else would you have there?

[skinfan2k]

are u kidding me with the skins o-line.. what about flozell adams. hank franley, jermaine mayberry, marco rivera, jon runyan. WOW and i thought i was a homer. for defense, where is osi? Tiki barber and portis are almost equal. On d how about trotter, dawkins,

[skinfan2k]

ya im sorry that mcnabb got injuired last year, but single-handed took his team to the NFC championship game with a lackluster running game and no WRs. ok he had owens 1 year. other years he had pinkston and james thrash. comeon. brunell does not deserve it. his first year here was ****

[Dirk Diggler]

Always one of my favorite threads - the best of NFC East.

I think the QB/WR/RG/RT isn't even debatable...it's McNabb/Moss/OWens/Thomas/Jansen without even giving it a second thought.

At DT it's clearly Griffin and Ferguson.

At CB it's Springs and Newman and I'd take Brown as my nickel CB.

If you're looking to get the 3 best LBs on the field then it's pretty easy: I'd play Washington on the SLB, Trotter in the middle, and Pierce on the WLB. However, you'd hate to leave Ware out.

C would be O'Hara or Raymer. Don't care who.


Best positions to debate are DE/FS/TE/LG and especially RB.

I'd take Witten over Shockey because he's a better blocker. It's probably best to go with an H-back in this offense so it's Witten + Cooley.

I think Portis/Tiki is a close call and you can't go wrong with either. Portis's A game is a little better than Barber's so I'd be inclined to take him since he'd be running behind a great line. I believe Barber would be better behind an average line because he has more wiggle.

I'd take Strahan and Osi slightly over Kearse.

On first and second down I'd have Roy Will and Sean Taylor but on 3rd down I'd move Taylor down to SS and bring Dawkins off the bench to play FS. If someone has to come out it's RW.

K = Vanderjagt
P = Feagles
PR = Randel El
KR = T Thompson

Coaching staff is a clean sweep for the Skins of course but Parcells can coach our linebackers ;) Coughlin can coach WRs and Reid can order lunch. :D

PS - what's great about this debate is that we SO CLEARLY have the best offensive line in the East after years of having the worst. And only 1 of those players is different from the Spurrier days. Just goes to show how important coaching is to good line play.

[Spizzunk]

Offense
QB:Mcnabb
WRs:Moss, TO, Glenn (three wide...only one team in division employs an H-back)
RB: Barber
TE:Shockey
T:C.Samuels, F. Adams
Gs: Randy Thomas, Chris Snee
C:Casey Rabach

Defense
DEs:Osi, Michael Strahan
DT: Griffin, Jason Ferguson
OLB:Washington, D.Ware
ILB:Antonio Pierce
CBs: Shawn Springs, Terrence Newman
FS: Brian Dawkins
SS: Roy Williams

[VaK9Trainer]

I'd have to go with Eli Manning at QB over McNabb. I think McNabb has begun to decline a bit.

[gangars]

Offense
QB:Mcnabb
WRs:Moss, TO, Glenn
RB: Barber
TE:Shockey
T:C.Samuels, F. Adams
Gs: Randy Thomas, Chris Snee
C:Casey Rabach

Defense
DEs:Osi, Michael Strahan
DT: Griffin, Jason Ferguson
OLB:Washington, D.Ware
ILB:Antonio Pierce
CBs: Shawn Springs, Terrence Newman
FS: Brian Dawkins
SS: Roy Williams
Dawkins over ST??? you're on crack :doh:

[Spizzunk]

Dawkins over ST??? you're on crack :doh:

Let's see, perennial pro bowler/all-pro against "none of the above"?

Taylor's numbers, even the using only the past two years, don't match Dawkins. I'll take the proven star.

[SteelerSkins]

kearse is terrible . . . one of the cowboys youg d-ends are better

[gangars]

Let's see, perennial pro bowler/all-pro against "none of the above"?

Taylor's numbers, even the using only the past two years, don't match Dawkins. I'll take the proven star.
the only thing "all pro" means is that u won a popularity contest amongst your peers. kinda like homecoming queen/king. even trotter is an all pro and he sucks monkey balls.

[21KillzCowboys]

the only thing "all pro" means is that u won a popularity contest amongst your peers. kinda like homecoming queen/king. even trotter is an all pro and he sucks monkey balls.

Exactly, just like Mike Vick in the pro bowl last year.

[mooby]

QB: Mcnabb
RB: Tiki
FB: Mike Sellers
WR: T.O.
WR: Moss
TE: Witten/Shockey, i'd say they are both equal
LT: Flozell Adams
LG: Hank Fraley
C: Rabach
RG: Randy Thomas
RT: Tra Thomas, i'm not sure if he's a LT or RT though.

Defense

DE: Osi Umenyiora, Michael Strahan
DT: Cornelius Griffin, Jason Ferguson
LOLB: Marcus Washington
MLB: Jeremiah Trotter
ROLB: Demarcus Ware
CB: Shawn Springs, Terence Newman
FS: Brian Dawkins, Taylor would be the backup
SS: Roy Williams, Michael Lewis as the backup

[mooby]

the only thing "all pro" means is that u won a popularity contest amongst your peers. kinda like homecoming queen/king. even trotter is an all pro and he sucks monkey balls.

amongst your pears? I assumed that All-Pro meant the media voted you as the best at your position. I don't think NFL players get to vote on whether your All-Pro or not, they get to vote you into the Pro Bowl though.

[HateYanksDukeCowboys]

the original list is good. only one correction i'd make:

Tiki would need to be above portis.

[terpfan]

OK My turn... Hopefully this is unbiased.

Offense
QB: Donovan McNabb - he did not have a "horrible" year last year, he was injured and had nothing around him. He's a damn good QB as much as he annoys me sometimes.
RB: Clinton Portis - You could make an argument for Tiki, but he's aging. I think Portis wil be better than him next year.
WR Terrell Owens - I would not want him on my team, but he's an obvious pick for this hypothetical team.
WR Santana Moss - We all know he deserves this. Only other pro bowl WR in the division anyway. Easy choice.
HB/FB: Chris Cooley/ Mike Sellars - Either way you want to go here I think a Redskin dominates the position.
TE: Jeremy Shockey - Lots of good TEs in this division, but Shockey is definately the best. You could make the case that only Gates is better.
LT: Chris Samuels - He made it back to the pro bowl last year so I dont feel too homerish picking him here.
LG: Randy Thomas - No explanation really needed here, especially with Larry Allen gone.
C: Hank Fraley - I'm still not over that holding call by Rabach. He's solid, but not the best in the divison. Fraley may be at guard now, but he has also played center for the Eagles.
RG: Chris Snee - Shawn Andrews has a lot of potential, but right now I think Snee is better.
RT: Flozell Adams - I'll move him over to the right side. There are a lot of good tackles in the division, John Jansen and Tra Thomas are close behind.

Defense
DE: Michael Strahan - This is a pretty easy choice.
DE: Osi Umenyiora - Honestly, this is a pretty easy choice also. The Giants ends are pretty far and away the best in the division. But I do think Carter will be pushing to take Strahan's spot on the all NFC East team soon.
DT: Cornelius Griffin - Robbed of the pro bowl in 2004, if he stays healthy this year he should make it.
DT: Jason Ferguson - I know, this isnt a 3-4, but this team is just hypothetical, and Ferguson is one of the two best DTs in the division.
OLB: Marcus Washington - Shouldnt be any argument here.
OLB: Demarcus Ware - Isnt that much competion, so the young guy gets the spot. Actually, I might slide Lemar in here, but that might be seen as homerism. :)
MLB: Antonio Pierce - I really wish we could have kept this guy. Ah well.
CB: Shawn Springs - Getting older, but he still deserves a spot on this team.
CB: Terrance Newman - Played pretty well last year, I think we underrate him on this board, although the Cowboys fans overrate him. Give me Sheldon Brown at the nickel.
SS: Sean Taylor - He plays FS for us, but he could easily play either position. And like Gibbs likes to say, we play with two safeties not a free and a strong.
FS: Brian Dawkins - I don't want RoyWill's (lack of) covering skills on the field. Dawkins is a great player who still has a bit left.

Special Teams
K: Mike Vanderjagt - Just beats out Akers. Still has to prove he can be the "clutch" guy.
P: Jeff Feagles - Eh, whatever.
KR: Wille Ponder - Either him or Chad Morton, both were great returning kicks for the Giants last year.
PR: Antwaan Randle El - Two punt return TDs last year.

Thats it, thats the list.

[GiantsFanMan]

QB-Mcnabb(was hurt last year, but he gets the nod on past dues.)
HB-Tiki(Plz Redskins fan Portis is good, but Tiki has taken it to Marshal Faulk in his prime type level)
FB-Sellers(No good FBs in the NFC east really.)
WR-T.O
WR-Moss
LT-Flozell(Great when he is healthy)
OG-Thomes/Snee(I dont think sides really matter for guards)
C-??? no idea
RT-McKeenzy was a littil dissapointing last year so I'll give it up to Jansen
TE-Shockey


DE-Osi,Mike(Plz, Jevon never been the same since he left the Titains.)
DT-Griffen/Ferguson(Everyone else sucks at DT besides Griffen in the east really.)
CBs-Sheppared(Will rebound off the injury) Brown
FS-Taylor
SS-Roy
OLB-Marcus/Ware
MLB-Pierce

[Spizzunk]

the only thing "all pro" means is that u won a popularity contest amongst your peers. kinda like homecoming queen/king. even trotter is an all pro and he sucks monkey balls.

Right...that's all "All-Pro" means.....the Pro-Bowl is a popularity contest, all-pro is a little more in depth.

You don't care about that, fine. Dawkins stats still beat Taylor's even though he is much older, possibly slower. Noone in their right mind puts Taylor over Dawkins.

[Sinclair]

i would take T.O. out only because he is lame.

[BLEED-B&G]

yeah that is being too much of a homer...where's Steve Smith?? Shawn Alexander? Hutchinson?





That is the hottest Sig I have ever seen

[rvan1]

i disagree that 11/22 players on the all NFC east team would be redskins....

[yazzmode621]

ok, TIKI had only ONE great year and the rest are just average. I think he is WAY overrated. He is also getting pretty old and DONT EVEN DARE try to compare Tiki to Marshall Faulk. Faulk in his prime was an a whole new level.

Portis in 4 years has had 3 1500 yard seasons and one 1300 yard season. Barber has been in the league for 9 years and he gained 1000 yard(1006 to be exact) in his 4th year. There is now way you can tell me Barber just because of one good year is bettter than Portis who has been kickin arse ever since he became pro.

[chopperhatch]

Do you guys realize how dumb you sound? No offense(even tho you're going to take it that way), but I have seen these idiotic statements on this thread:

Portis would be higher on a depth chart than Tiki
Cooley would be higher on a depth chart than LJ Smith
Lemar Marshall should be the MLB ahead of Pierce(laughs out loud)
The fact that most of you have the entire skins line as All NFC East is ridiculous enough:
Snee is better than Randy Thomas
And Kareem McKenzie is better than Jansen
You put Carter in the same sentence as Osi....cute

You guys are out of touch with reality. To say that your whole O-line is better than the rest of the East's is absurd. You screwed up the career of a 1st round choice because you couldn't protect him. Seriously, seek help.

[chopperhatch]

Spizzun, I agree.

[yazzmode621]

here's my list...

qb: McNabb
rb: PORTIS(who would of thought?)
hb:Sellers
Te: Cooley
Rt:Runyan
Rg:Thomas
C:Anyone but RabacH!(I still cant believe that idiot held on 3rd down late in the game against the Chargers!)
Lg:????
Rt:Samuels
De:Strahan, Osi
Dt: Griffin, Ferguson
OLB:Washington,and move Pierce back to Outside
ILB: Marshall(This guy was kicking ass last year and to me was more impressive than Pierce and not a whiny ***** neither)
CB: Springs, Sheppard(Newman is WAY overrated and Sheppard is the #1 cb of philly how can you have Brown ahead of him?)
SS:Roy Williams(He well seldomly be used in coverage :) )
FS:Sean "Monster" Taylor (This guy is a beast!)

[rvan1]

Do you guys realize how dumb you sound? No offense(even tho you're going to take it that way), but I have seen these idiotic statements on this thread:

Portis would be higher on a depth chart than Tiki
Cooley would be higher on a depth chart than LJ Smith
Lemar Marshall should be the MLB ahead of Pierce(laughs out loud)
The fact that most of you have the entire skins line as All NFC East is ridiculous enough:
Snee is better than Randy Thomas
And Kareem McKenzie is better than Jansen
You put Carter in the same sentence as Osi....cute

You guys are out of touch with reality. To say that your whole O-line is better than the rest of the East's is absurd. You screwed up the career of a 1st round choice because you couldn't protect him. Seriously, seek help.

well, thats not entirely true. Spurrier screwed up ramsey with silly oline schemes, not our line players themselves.

while lemar marshall is very good, pierce is a stellar linebacker, agreed.

cooley should be higher than lj smith. check out the stats.

portis v. tiki is a "pick em" type scenario... each bring different things to the board (tiki brings a lisp, portis brings awesome running plays.... jk)

[chopperhatch]

ryan1, and yazzmode...you are both about as objective as Dan Snyder himself. Enjoy, delusions of grandeur are fun I hear.

By the way Ryan, LJ didn't play with a qb for a good chunk of the season, and stats aren't everything. Just watch this year. Cooley will have attracted the defenders and the opposition will throw a SS to cover him. He does not have the size nor the speed of Shockey.

[chopperhatch]

Tiki and Portis....a pick'em? (shakes head and snickers)

[GhostOfLamontHollinquest]

Marshall was my homer pick, I just love his game.

I have no problem conceding the Pierce is the better of the two. Eagles fans will definitely argue that Trotter is better than either of them, so...

[Enter Apotheosis]

are u kidding me with the skins o-line.. what about flozell adams. hank franley, jermaine mayberry, marco rivera, jon runyan. WOW and i thought i was a homer. for defense, where is osi? Tiki barber and portis are almost equal. On d how about trotter, dawkins,

Flozell is getting up there in terms of age and isn't quite what he once was. Fraley, Mayberry, Rivera, and Runyan are all good lineman but I still don't think they quite match up with the Skins. A lot of people have Osi in there. Under Saunders odds are Portis will be a significantly better back than Tiki. Pierce is better than Trotter... Dawkins or Taylor is a push (Dawkins has experience and is very good, ST has amazing raw talent and is a freak of nature).


ryan1, and yazzmode...you are both about as objective as Dan Snyder himself. Enjoy, delusions of grandeur are fun I hear.

The more you speak, the less objective you yourself sound.

[Spizzunk]

ok, TIKI had only ONE great year and the rest are just average. I think he is WAY overrated. He is also getting pretty old and DONT EVEN DARE try to compare Tiki to Marshall Faulk. Faulk in his prime was an a whole new level.

Portis in 4 years has had 3 1500 yard seasons and one 1300 yard season. Barber has been in the league for 9 years and he gained 1000 yard(1006 to be exact) in his 4th year. There is now way you can tell me Barber just because of one good year is bettter than Portis who has been kickin arse ever since he became pro.

Tiki did not start a full 16 games until 2003. Let's look at Tiki's stats since 2000...

2000- 1,725 total yard, 4.7 ypc, 9 TDs (12 starts)
2001- 1,442 total yard, 5.2 ypc, 4 TDs (9 starts)
2002- 1,984 total yard, 4.6 ypc, 11 TDs (15 starts)
2003- 1,677 total yard, 4.4 ypc, 3 TDs (16 starts)
2004- 2,096 total yard, 4.7 ypc, 15 TDs (14 starts)
2005- 2,390 total yard, 5.2 ypc, 11 TDs (16 starts)

That breaks out to a per season average of

1,885 total yards, 8.8 TDs per season. Certainly looks like he's had "one good year".:rolleyes:

[yazzmode621]

ryan1, and yazzmode...you are both about as objective as Dan Snyder himself. Enjoy, delusions of grandeur are fun I hear.

By the way Ryan, LJ didn't play with a qb for a good chunk of the season, and stats aren't everything. Just watch this year. Cooley will have attracted the defenders and the opposition will throw a SS to cover him. He does not have the size nor the speed of Shockey.

thank you I will. :) And no one in their right mind would pick LJ Smith over Cooley,Shockey or Witten. He's at best, 4th and thats AT BEST!!! :) And we're the supposed homers?

[yazzmode621]

Tiki did not start a full 16 games until 2003. Let's look at Tiki's stats since 2000...

2000- 1,725 total yard, 4.7 ypc, 9 TDs (12 starts)
2001- 1,442 total yard, 5.2 ypc, 4 TDs (9 starts)
2002- 1,984 total yard, 4.6 ypc, 11 TDs (15 starts)
2003- 1,677 total yard, 4.4 ypc, 3 TDs (16 starts)
2004- 2,096 total yard, 4.7 ypc, 15 TDs (14 starts)
2005- 2,390 total yard, 5.2 ypc, 11 TDs (16 starts)

That breaks out to a per season average of

1,885 total yards, 8.8 TDs per season. Certainly looks like he's had "one good year".:rolleyes:

So what you're saying is that he wasnt good enough to start right out of college(Like Portis). Thanks for the confirmation :)

[Spizzunk]

So what you're saying is that he wasnt good enough to start right out of college(Like Portis). Thanks for the confirmation :)

No, that's not what I was saying. Thanks for not reading what was written.

[chopperhatch]

A lot of people have Osi in there. Under Saunders odds are Portis will be a significantly better back than Tiki.



The more you speak, the less objective you yourself sound.
You are basing that on Saunders offense in KC? With Priest/Johnson running behind Shields and Roaf? You're a simpleton sir.

[chopperhatch]

Portis didn't start right out of college either dimwit. I believe it was Mike Anderson or Gary. And Pierce, Osi, Strahan didnt start out of college either. Nice try tho.

[Finally]

here's my list...

qb: McNabb
rb: Portis
hb:Sellers
Te: Shockey
Rt:Jansen
Rg:Thomas
C:RabacH
Lg:Dockery
Rt:Samuels
De:Strahan, Osi
Dt: Griffin, Ferguson
OLB:Washington,Marshall
ILB: Pierce
CB: Springs, Carlos Rogers
SS:Dawkins
FS:Sean Taylor

[GhostOfLamontHollinquest]

Mine would be pretty much identicle to that. I'd throw in Plaxico as the #3 reciever, and B. Lloyd as the #4.

Ummm...are you familiar with Terry Glenn?

[chopperhatch]

Ok, so assuming these lists are the best of the best, what will you guys blame Washington not winning the East in '07 on?

[chopperhatch]

You would take Glenn over Plax? Crack kills.

[GhostOfLamontHollinquest]

You would take Glenn over Plax? Crack kills.

Easy there, my friend. Take the time to go back and read what a wrote a little more carefully. He said he'd take Lloyd as the #4, when Glenn clearly put up better numbers on a better team last year, and therefore is still more deserving.

Its OK though, you've only got 8 posts. Just be a little more careful next time, before accusing people of being on drugs. I probably know a little more than you anyway...

[gangars]

amongst your pears? I assumed that All-Pro meant the media voted you as the best at your position. I don't think NFL players get to vote on whether your All-Pro or not, they get to vote you into the Pro Bowl though.
no, coaches and players vote as well.

[terpfan]

Do you guys realize how dumb you sound? No offense(even tho you're going to take it that way), but I have seen these idiotic statements on this thread:

Portis would be higher on a depth chart than Tiki
Cooley would be higher on a depth chart than LJ Smith
Lemar Marshall should be the MLB ahead of Pierce(laughs out loud)
The fact that most of you have the entire skins line as All NFC East is ridiculous enough:
Snee is better than Randy Thomas
And Kareem McKenzie is better than Jansen
You put Carter in the same sentence as Osi....cute

You guys are out of touch with reality. To say that your whole O-line is better than the rest of the East's is absurd. You screwed up the career of a 1st round choice because you couldn't protect him. Seriously, seek help.
1. Very debatable
2. Of course Cooley is better than LJ.
3. I agree here.
4. Snee is not better than Thomas.
5. Again, debatable, but I see no reason why Jansen is not better. (and neither would be top 2 in the division IMO)
5. Eh, anything said about Carter is pure speculation at this point, I agree he shouldnt be mentioned with Osi though.

Anyway, some of your points sound just as stupid to me. (no offense :rolleyes: )

[chopperhatch]

Easy there, my friend. Take the time to go back and read what a wrote a little more carefully. He said he'd take Lloyd as the #4, when Glenn clearly put up better numbers on a better team last year, and therefore is still more deserving.

Its OK though, you've only got 8 posts. Just be a little more careful next time, before accusing people of being on drugs. I probably know a little more than you anyway...

You know more than me about.....football. i call Shennanigans. No Skins fan kinows more about football than anybody anywhere. This includes soccer fans. You people are Skins fans not football fans.

In addition, my having 8 posts means what again? Oh, that I browse the boards instead of clicking on funny little pro-Redskin icons and make bold Super Bowl predictions. Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha! Whatever son. You still need people to buy you beer. Don't worry, I understand you are going through some changes with your voice and all, but things will get better.

[chopperhatch]

1. Very debatable
2. Of course Cooley is better than LJ.
3. I agree here.
4. Snee is not better than Thomas.
5. Again, debatable, but I see no reason why Jansen is not better. (and neither would be top 2 in the division IMO)
5. Eh, anything said about Carter is pure speculation at this point, I agree he shouldnt be mentioned with Osi though.

Anyway, some of your points sound just as stupid to me. (no offense :rolleyes: )

Carter v. Osi is debatable?

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/playerpage/235200 here are Carter's career numbers

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/playerpage/396106 here are Osi's in half as much time

If you would really rather have Carter than Osi, then you must've studied football according to Rich Kotite.

[chopperhatch]

Snee not better than Thomas....that's a gooooooood one! LOL!

[Sinclair]

...TE: Jeremy Shockey - Lots of good TEs in this division, but Shockey is definately the best. You could make the case that only Gates is better....

if your talking nfl you can't forget Gonzalez.

[Sinclair]

Do you guys realize how dumb you sound? No offense(even tho you're going to take it that way), but I have seen these idiotic statements on this thread:

Portis would be higher on a depth chart than Tiki
Cooley would be higher on a depth chart than LJ Smith
Lemar Marshall should be the MLB ahead of Pierce(laughs out loud)
The fact that most of you have the entire skins line as All NFC East is ridiculous enough:
Snee is better than Randy Thomas
And Kareem McKenzie is better than Jansen
You put Carter in the same sentence as Osi....cute

You guys are out of touch with reality. To say that your whole O-line is better than the rest of the East's is absurd. You screwed up the career of a 1st round choice because you couldn't protect him. Seriously, seek help.

Don't be hatin'

[Riggo#44]

if your talking nfl you can't forget Gonzalez.

Gates, Gonzalez, Witten and Cooley over Shockey.

And I would like to proudly state that I have been banned from the Cowboys Zone. Bordem, lack of news to talk about...no one to argue with here. I think we need a smack talking board.

It's amazing how they justify Irvin and the other Cowboys criminals, yet crush Taylor. (Not saying what he did was ok, per se - just hasn't been convicted yet!)

[chopperhatch]

if your talking nfl you can't forget Gonzalez.\


RECEIVING
YearTeamGGSNoYardsAvgLgTD20+40+FD2002New York Giants15147489412.1302160492003New York Giants994853511.146261292004New York Giants15156166610.9386100322005New York Giants15156589113.759712146TOTAL5453248298612.0591 7442156
^^^^^Shockey's numbers(pay attention to '05)


And here are Gonzalez':

RECEIVING
YearTeamGGSNoYardsAvgLgTD20+40+FD1997Kansas City Chiefs1603336811.230250211998Kansas City Chiefs16165962110.532260331999Kansas City Chiefs15157684911.2731181472000Kansas City Chiefs161693120312.9399160662001Kansas City Chiefs16167391712.6366130492002Kansas City Chiefs16166377312.3427101392003Kansas City Chiefs16167191612.96710142482004Kansas City Chiefs1616102125812.3327190692005Kansas City Chiefs16167890511.63929045TOTAL143127648781012.173 561004417


RUSHING


If you look at the yardage, please remember that Shockey was NOT NYG's primary receiver.

[chopperhatch]

That did'nt work out well

Riggo, you were banned for being stupid, not talking smack.

[Sinclair]

Gates, Gonzalez, Witten and Cooley over Shockey.

And I would like to proudly state that I have been banned from the Cowboys Zone. Bordem, lack of news to talk about...no one to argue with here. I think we need a smack talking board.

It's amazing how they justify Irvin and the other Cowboys criminals, yet crush Taylor. (Not saying what he did was ok, per se - just hasn't been convicted yet!)

wow, getting banned from the cowboys zone...haha you are a man among men:cheers: CONGRATS! about st..yeah its a case of them thinking thier sh*t dosnt stink.

[Sinclair]

not to be an a*s but i really cant decipher that mess you posted chopper.

[rvan1]

Portis didn't start right out of college either dimwit. I believe it was Mike Anderson or Gary. And Pierce, Osi, Strahan didnt start out of college either. Nice try tho.


whether he started or not is irrelevant...portis had 1500 yards his rookie year, and has never had less than 1300. thats a lot more than tiki can say.

[chopperhatch]

Whatever you say. You ask anybody in the game if they could have one back for one game, Portis or Tiki. I'd be willing to bet that 90% of them take Tiki. He is a better football player, period.

[GhostOfLamontHollinquest]

You know more than me about.....football. i call Shennanigans. No Skins fan kinows more about football than anybody anywhere. This includes soccer fans. You people are Skins fans not football fans.

In addition, my having 8 posts means what again? Oh, that I browse the boards instead of clicking on funny little pro-Redskin icons and make bold Super Bowl predictions. Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha! Whatever son. You still need people to buy you beer. Don't worry, I understand you are going through some changes with your voice and all, but things will get better.

Fake IDs are pretty ingenious. I got.

[Riggo#44]

That did'nt work out well

Riggo, you were banned for being stupid, not talking smack.

No, I was banned for being a pain in the ass, really. Boredom will do that - I jsut really couldn't stop myself...oh well...

[chopperhatch]

Tiki had over 1800 last year and has finished with over 2000 total yards two times in a row! Only one other player did that....Marshall Faulk. I think that is a heck of a lot better than having over 1500 yards with run-happy teams.

[chopperhatch]

Fake IDs are pretty ingenious. I got.


I'll bet you don't have one. You're too lame to have a fake.

It makes no difference, Everybody knows that Redskin fans are football obtuse and only about the Redskins.

[Riggo#44]

Tiki had over 1800 last year and has finished with over 2000 total yards two times in a row! Only one other player did that....Marshall Faulk. I think that is a heck of a lot better than having over 1500 yards with run-happy teams.

I would take Portis b/c he is 5-6 years younger, much tougher. Tiki is over 30 now and will fade.

You're from Montclair? Are you Peter King??

[GhostOfLamontHollinquest]

Tiki had over 1800 last year and has finished with over 2000 total yards two times in a row! Only one other player did that....Marshall Faulk. I think that is a heck of a lot better than having over 1500 yards with run-happy teams.

Stats aren't everything. You could argue that Clinton Portis was the most important player to any team in the NFC during the second half of the season. Essentially he took the team on his shoulders, he may have taken his game to the next level at the moment he grabbed onto Sellers' jersey during the Cardinals games.

Oh, and, last year's playoff stats:
Portis: 1 TD, 1-1 record
Barber: 0 TD, 0-1

Think I might have got you on that one, bra.

[Sinclair]

Tiki had over 1800 last year and has finished with over 2000 total yards two times in a row! Only one other player did that....Marshall Faulk. I think that is a heck of a lot better than having over 1500 yards with run-happy teams.

barber has had 2 good years, the rest have been plauged with fumbles...and i guruntee that your 90% wager is way off...

[Hambone26]

You mean Donovan McSucks, right?

[Skin'emAlive]

What crawled up ur *** and died chopper?? I think u need to chill.

[Spizzunk]

Stats aren't everything. You could argue that Clinton Portis was the most important player to any team in the NFC during the second half of the season. Essentially he took the team on his shoulders, he may have taken his game to the next level at the moment he grabbed onto Sellers' jersey during the Cardinals games.

Oh, and, last year's playoff stats:
Portis: 1 TD, 1-1 record
Barber: 0 TD, 0-1

Think I might have got you on that one, bra.

Look at Tiki's stats down the homestretch. He is THE reason the Giants made the playoffs. In the playoffs, Eli put them behind the 8 ball. They had no opportunity to run it.

[Sinclair]

What crawled up ur *** and died chopper?? I think u need to chill.

i agree, but hey:gaintsuck

[rvan1]

Tiki had over 1800 last year and has finished with over 2000 total yards two times in a row! Only one other player did that....Marshall Faulk. I think that is a heck of a lot better than having over 1500 yards with run-happy teams.

Let me put it this way... Tiki has career totals of

8787 yards, 62 total tds, 41 fumbles in his 9 year career...

in 4 years, Portis has:

5930 yards, 49 total tds, 16 fumbles

that means, in 9 seasons, Portis is on pace to have:

13342 yards, 110.25 tds, 36 fumbles.... all better than Tiki...

and if youre calling us run happy, what are you? Giants ran Tiki more than Skins ran Portis last season....

[matt2190]

barber has had 2 good years, the rest have been plauged with fumbles...and i guruntee that your 90% wager is way off...

Only the best players make it to the pro bowl. Did Portis go? I know Tiki did. That means that the players, fans, and coaches think Tiki is the better back.

[Sinclair]

Only the best players make it to the pro bowl. Did Portis go? I know Tiki did. That means that the players, fans, and coaches think Tiki is the better back.

is that why mike vick went....oh ok, its not a popularity contest you say...?

[GhostOfLamontHollinquest]

I'll bet you don't have one. You're too lame to have a fake.

It makes no difference, Everybody knows that Redskin fans are football obtuse and only about the Redskins.

Everybody knows that people from New Jerz are mentally retarded. I bet you don't get laid.

[matt2190]

Let me put it this way... Tiki has career totals of

8787 yards, 62 total tds, 41 fumbles in his 9 year career...

in 4 years, Portis has:

5930 yards, 49 total tds, 16 fumbles

that means, in 9 seasons, Portis is on pace to have:

13342 yards, 110.25 tds, 36 fumbles.... all better than Tiki...

and if youre calling us run happy, what are you? Giants ran Tiki more than Skins ran Portis last season....

Don't project numbers. You don't know if Portis will be in the league in two years. The numbers are what they are. Tiki is a all pro back. Clinton Portis is a all Redskin back. Big difference.

[ShockeyZulu]

I started a simular thread at the end of the season here on this site. For anyone interested, here's the link...

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1950465#post1950465

[rvan1]

cough take it outside cough.....

just dont take it outside to jersey though, you breathe in that air, your kids will have 3 eye balls and a fin when they are born....

[chopperhatch]

I would take Portis b/c he is 5-6 years younger, much tougher. Tiki is over 30 now and will fade.

You're from Montclair? Are you Peter King??


You don't read much do you stupid....I said on back for one game. Even one season..


You honestly think that Porter was more important to the Redskins than Tiki was to the Giants?

I guess you really can't fix stupid.

[rvan1]

ShockeyZulu, your take is by far the most correct....

im sure you'd add Owens now after the season, and McNabb now that hes healthy again, right? By far the fairest assessment though

[Sinclair]

the only reason tiki went to the probowl is because the hype he recieved from the media.

[GhostOfLamontHollinquest]

I started a simular thread at the end of the season here on this site. For anyone interested, here's the link...

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1950465#post1950465

This list was based just on last year but I'll still stick with it...

OFFENSE

QB - Eli Manning
Everyone knows Donovan McNabb is the best QB in the division, only injury is keeping him from this crown. I could then make a case for the rest of the three QBs to top this list. Since several Redskins fans have already stated they'd pick Eli over Brunnell, I'll go that route.

RB - Tiki Barber
Brian Westbrook was a beast early on and after a slow start Clinton Portis has really been coming on the second half of the season. But Barber's been the most consistant RB from start to finish, leading the NFL in yards from scrimmage.

FB/H-Back - Chris Cooley
Cooley's really come on this year after having a solid rookie year. I'd rather put Cooley at H-Back and use him for two TE sets for this team, over putting an average FB in this position.

WR - Santana Moss, Plaxico Burress and Terry Glenn
All three of these receivers have been impact players this year. Moss has added an explosive threat to the Redskins offense. Burress has given the Giants a true deep threat and a go-to WR for Eli. Glenn has come up huge for the Cowboys when they've needed a big play in the passing game. No other WR in this division comes close to these three.

TE - Jeremy Shockey
Giants shoring up their O-line has allowed Shockey to make an impact in the passing game instead of staying in to block. Jason Witten is a great TE whose up and coming but Dallas's injuries to both tackle positions have forced him to stay in to block more often, like Shockey in 2004.

LT - Chris Samuels
It was between Samuels and Luke Petitgout. Difference being is Luke get called for 2-3 penalties per game, which is a same because he's having a stand out year without those calls called against him. Samuels has been more consistant this year and a key to Portis success in the run game.

LG - Larry Allen
David Diehl has show promise in his first year at LG but Allen is still the standard to measure the position.

C - Casey Rabach
Not to many centers stand out from all four teams. I like how solid Rabach has been since coming over from the Ravens, so he gets the knod.

RG - Chris Snee
Snee's a MONSTER as a run blocker and is improving as a pass blocker. This was a hard position to pick with other promising players like Shawn Andrews and Randy Thomas.

RT - Jon Runyan
Another tuff position to pick from. Jon Jansen, Jon Runyan and Kareem McKenzie have enjoyed great seasons.

DEFENSE

DE - Michael Strahan and Osi Umenyiora
Strahan has been the best player at this position for almost the past decade. Osi has really elevated his play to elite level this year. He manhandled the best left tackle in football, Walter Jones a few weeks ago. Other notables are Marcus Spears and Javon Kearse. Spears will be joining Osi soon as the best DE's in the division. Kearse flashes his ability from time to time but not consistant enough.

DT - Cornelius Griffin and La'Roi Glover
Griffin has become the best player at this position, when he's healthy. He's shown how valuable he's become to the Redskins, when he didn't play for a couple of weeks and the Skins defense wasn't the same without him. Glover is still a beast and brings it on everydown. Great pass rusher, who at times becomes unstoppable.

LOLB - DeMarcus Ware
Ware has been one of the key's to turning that defense around, along with Spears and Newman developing. Lavar Arrington would challenge Ware here but he missed too much time early on with Greg Williams benching/not playing him.

MLB - Antonio Pierce
Pierce along with Lemar Marshall and Jeremiah Trotter have all had strong Pro Bowl type seasons. Edge went Pierce because what he brings to the table besides being a great player. His hard work in the film room, studing a teams weakness, have really paid off. His audible at the line of scrimmage have been key with turning around the Giants Defense.

ROLB - Marcus Washington
Washington has been a key cog in the stellar play of the Redskins defense the last two years. Washington at times has outplayed his OLB counterpart Arrington in big games is and coming out of his shadow and becoming more well known on the national level.

CB - Sheldon Brown, Shawn Springs and Terence Newman
Most dominating CBs in the division. The veteran Springs has been a constant rock in the Redskins defense. Brown is establishing himself as one of the best CBs in the NFL. Newman had brought his level of play to live up to his high expectations and has been a key to Dallas defensive success. Other notables are Will Allen whose been a solid cover corner and Carlos Rogers has shown ability to take a step to this level next year.

FS - Sean Taylor and SS - Michael Lewis
Taylor is the class of his own at FS. As great of a hitter and run defender Roy Williams is, Lewis is right behind him and is a much better in coverage. Notable mention is second year player Gibril Wilson who is developing into an impact player.

SPECIAL TEAMS

K - David Ackers
No one else in the division is even close.

P - Jeff Feagles
A weapon at pinning a team inside their 20.

Most accurate I've seen so far, except that Roy Glover is a Ram. Throw in Ferguson, Joseph or Patterson.

Edit: Wait a minute, Eli Manning sucks, and the TE could really be Cooley, Witten or Shockey, even LJ Smith. Although Cooley is the youngest and had the best year last year.

[chopperhatch]

You guys have obviously never seen Jersey other than the turnpike. Losers.

Cough, ok, cough...wtf is that?

[matt2190]

the only reason tiki went to the probowl is because the hype he recieved from the media.


Whatever helps you sleep at night. They always blame it on the media when they know they are wrong.:laugh:

[Sinclair]

You don't read much do you stupid....I said on back for one game. Even one season..


You honestly think that Porter was more important to the Redskins than Tiki was to the Giants?

I guess you really can't fix stupid.

who is porter...I think portIS WAS more important to the skins than tiki to the gnats.

[ShockeyZulu]

ShockeyZulu, your take is by far the most correct....

im sure you'd add Owens now after the season, and McNabb now that hes healthy again, right? By far the fairest assessment though

You're right, I took down that list and will put up a new one with the reflected changes.

[Sinclair]

Whatever helps you sleep at night. They always blame it on the media when they know they are wrong.:laugh:

no really, but go ahead and feed your ignorance. we can see who is right at the end of next season

[Skin'emAlive]

Ok Chopper and friends.... Its the offseason. So there is only one thing that could possibly cheer you guys up.

http://img222.exs.cx/img222/3006/eli8ar.jpg

http://img175.exs.cx/img175/7674/claymanning0lh.jpg

http://img73.exs.cx/img73/7852/pyle3ji.jpg

http://tinypic.com/ezqu06.jpg

Cheers!! :cheers:

[Cambl2Moss]

yeah that is being too much of a homer...where's Steve Smith?? Shawn Alexander? Hutchinson?



:doh::doh::doh::doh::doh::doh:

[Spizzunk]

Let me put it this way... Tiki has career totals of

8787 yards, 62 total tds, 41 fumbles in his 9 year career...

in 4 years, Portis has:

5930 yards, 49 total tds, 16 fumbles

that means, in 9 seasons, Portis is on pace to have:

13342 yards, 110.25 tds, 36 fumbles.... all better than Tiki...

and if youre calling us run happy, what are you? Giants ran Tiki more than Skins ran Portis last season....

Question - what do Portis' projected stats have to do with who the better player is right now? You're comparing apples to oranges. Tiki didn't start 16 full games until 2003. He wasn't a full time starter until about 2000, and even then, the Giants screwed around with the failed Ron Dayne experiment. Portis has been pretty much full time since his first season, when he took the starting job away from Mike Anderson (I think...)

Right now, Tiki is the better, more complete back. Future projected stats have nothing to do with that. You only used them because Tiki's numbers from the past two years blow Portis' numbers out of the water.

[matt2190]

no really, but go ahead and feed your ignorance. we can see who is right at the end of next season

Why would we have to wait till the end of next season when I was right at the end of last season. You have nothing to back up your assertion.

[Sinclair]

im not going to argue with you anymore, its nothing more than an exercise in futility....but you still dont have me convinced . :gaintsuck CP > TB.

[matt2190]

im not going to argue with you anymore, its nothing more than an exercise in futility....but you still dont have me convinced . :gaintsuck CP > TB.

your silence speaks a thousand words.:laugh:

[ShockeyZulu]

Here's my new list...

I think it's pretty evenly made up without any favortism or dislike for any one team.

OFFENSE

QB - Donovan McNabb
While Eli Manning has potential, McNabb is clearly the best QB in the division when healthy. Drew Bledsoe or Mark Brunell in their prime could compare but they are near the end of their career's.

RB - Tiki Barber, Clinton Portis
Brian Westbrook and Julius Jones have potential when healthy but currently no where near the class of Barber and Portis. Portis has rushed for 1,500 yards in 3 of his first 4 seasons and Barber has lead the NFL in Total Yards for Scrimmage for the last two years.

FB/H-Back - Chris Cooley
Cooley's really come on this year after having a solid rookie year. I'd rather put Cooley at H-Back and use him for two TE sets for this team, over putting an average FB in this position.

WR - Terrell Owens, Santana Moss and Plaxico Burress
All three of these receivers have been impact players and currently are the best receivers in the divison. Owens when he has his head on straight is one of the most gifted receivers in the entire league. Moss has added an explosive threat to the Redskins offense. Burress has given the Giants a true deep threat and a go-to WR for Eli. No other WR in this division comes close to these three.

TE - Jeremy Shockey
Giants shoring up their O-line has allowed Shockey to make an impact in the passing game instead of staying in to block. Jason Witten and LJ Smith are talented but haven't consistantly put up the numbers that Shockey has since he came into the league in 2002.

LT - Chris Samuels
It was between Samuels and Luke Petitgout. Difference being is Luke gets called for 2-3 penalties per game, which is a shame because he had a stand out year without those calls called against him. Samuels has been more consistant and a key to Portis's success in the run game.

LG - Davis Diehl
David Diehl has been in the league for three years and has started at three different positions each year. Now that he's playing his more natural guard position, he'll benefit for playing the same LG position two years in a row.

C - Casey Rabach
Not to many centers stand out from all four teams. I like how solid Rabach has been since coming over from the Ravens, so he gets the knod.

RG - Chris Snee
Snee's a MONSTER as a run blocker and is improving as a pass blocker. This was a hard position to pick with other promising players like Shawn Andrews and Randy Thomas.

RT - Jon Runyan
Another tuff position to pick from. Jon Jansen, Jon Runyan and Kareem McKenzie have enjoyed great seasons.

DEFENSE

DE - Michael Strahan and Osi Umenyiora
Strahan has been the best player at this position for almost the past decade. Osi has really elevated his play to elite level this year. He manhandled the best left tackle in football, Walter Jones last year. Other notables are Marcus Spears, Darren Howard, Javon Kearse and Andre Carter. Spears will be joining Osi soon as the best DE's in the division. Kearse flashes his ability from time to time but not consistant enough. Howard and Carter need to regain their fire that made them double digit sack artists in the past.

DT - Cornelius Griffin and Mike Patterson
Griffin has become the best player at this position, when he's healthy. He's shown how valuable he's become to the Redskins, when he didn't play for a couple of weeks and the Skins defense wasn't the same without him. Patterson had a great rookie year and justified the Eagles faith in him by letting Corey Simon go. Other notables are Jason Ferguson and William Joseph.

LOLB - DeMarcus Ware
Ware has been one of the key's to turning that defense around, along with Spears and Newman developing. He's one of the up and coming players on defense in this division.

MLB - Antonio Pierce
Pierce along with Lemar Marshall and Jeremiah Trotter have all had strong Pro Bowl type seasons. Edge went Pierce because what he brings to the table besides being a great player. His hard work in the film room, studing a teams weakness, have really paid off. His audible at the line of scrimmage have been key with turning around the Giants Defense.

ROLB - Marcus Washington
Washington has been a key cog in the stellar play of the Redskins defense the last two years. Washington at times has outplayed his OLB counterpart Arrington in big games and coming out of his shadow and becoming more well known on the national level.

CB - Sheldon Brown, Shawn Springs and Terence Newman
Most dominating CBs in the division. The veteran Springs has been a constant rock in the Redskins defense. Brown is establishing himself as one of the best CBs in the NFL. Newman had brought his level of play to live up to his high expectations and has been a key to Dallas defensive success. Other notables are Sam Madison whose a 4 time Pro Bowl but needs to show he hasn't lost a step. Carlos Rogers has shown ability to take a step to this level next year and come one of the best 3 corners in the division.

FS - Sean Taylor and SS - Michael Lewis
Taylor is the class of his own at FS. As great of a hitter and run defender Roy Williams is, Lewis is right behind him and is a much better in coverage. Notable mention is to Brian Dawkins who was by far the best FS in the league during the Eagles run from 2000-2004. Also second year strong safety Gibril Wilson who is developing into an impact player.

SPECIAL TEAMS

K - David Ackers
Nobody else is close as Feely and Vanderjagt have show they've missed clutch game winning FG attempts for their teams.

P - Jeff Feagles
A weapon at pinning a team inside their 20.

[phishisthegreatstuff]

Heres mine:
Qb-Mcnabb WR-Moss and TO RB-Tiki HB-cooley TE-Shockey Oline-ALL SKINS DE-Strahan and Osi DT-Griffen and Ferguson OLB-Washington and Ware ILB- Peirce S-Taylor and Roy the toy

[Ant15fromNJ]

Its good I think its valid.

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

umm....ill take the redskins...haha hell yeah go skins!

[somebody509]

Why would McNabb be the quarterback after his awful season last year?

As much as I love the Redskins McNabb is a much better QB than Brunell. McNabb had a horrible season last year because of his chest injuries, and on top of the a lot of other Eagles were injured as well.I'd have to say McNabb is the best QB in the NFC east without a doubt, as long as he's healthy. As for Tikki Barber, you also have to consider that Portis had a shoulder injury most of the year last year, and we also had a couple key injuries on our line. I'd take portis over Barber. I also agree with throwing in Plaxico as the number 3 receiver.

[terpfan]

LG - Davis Diehl
David Diehl has been in the league for three years and has started at three different positions each year. Now that he's playing his more natural guard position, he'll benefit for playing the same LG position two years in a row.

David Diehl? Come on now...

The rest I can see (although I doubt you would have included a third WR if you werent a Giants fan) but David Diehl over Randy Thomas is crazy talk.

[CPstretch]

i dont think tiki barber will have nearly the kind of year he had this past. obviously 1800 yards or whatever he had will be hard to top, but i just think it was a fluke almost. if a team gets focused on stopping the run like the panthers did with their excellent front 7, then he can be shut down.

randy thomas has to be on that list as one of the guards. the man was headed to the pro bowl

[matt2190]

As much as I love the Redskins McNabb is a much better QB than Brunell. McNabb had a horrible season last year because of his chest injuries, and on top of the a lot of other Eagles were injured as well.I'd have to say McNabb is the best QB in the NFC east without a doubt, as long as he's healthy. As for Tikki Barber, you also have to consider that Portis had a shoulder injury most of the year last year, and we also had a couple key injuries on our line. I'd take portis over Barber. I also agree with throwing in Plaxico as the number 3 receiver.


How could you take Portis over Barber? Barber had 200 yards on your own team right in front of your eyes. Portis did not come close. Everybody has injuries late in the season.

[matt2190]

i dont think tiki barber will have nearly the kind of year he had this past. obviously 1800 yards or whatever he had will be hard to top, but i just think it was a fluke almost. if a team gets focused on stopping the run like the panthers did with their excellent front 7, then he can be shut down.

randy thomas has to be on that list as one of the guards. the man was headed to the pro bowl

The last two years he has had the most yards from scrimmage in the NFL. Including 200 on the skins. Fluke. What a joke.:laugh:

[somebody509]

How could you take Portis over Barber? Barber had 200 yards on your own team right in front of your eyes. Portis did not come close. Everybody has injuries late in the season.

Portis came into a new offense recently and has had to learn that where as Barber has been with the Giants his whole carrer....Portis averages more yards per carry, and even though Barber has played 78 more games than portis, he only has less than 3,000 yards on him....If you do the math and get it to where they've played the same amount of games Portis would have about 5,500 more yards than Barber and thats giving him only 1,350 yards per season when he averages about 1,500. A lot of people do have injuries late in the season, but Portis' didn't come late in the season, it came around the mid point, and unlike portis Barber wasn't injured and he didn't have any 40+ year olds on the line blocking for him.

[matt2190]

Portis came into a new offense recently and has had to learn that where as Barber has been with the Giants his whole carrer....Portis averages more yards per carry, and even though Barber has played 78 more games than portis, he only has less than 3,000 yards on him....If you do the math and get it to where they've played the same amount of games Portis would have about 5,500 more yards than Barber and thats giving him only 1,350 yards per season when he averages about 1,500. A lot of people do have injuries late in the season, but Portis' didn't come late in the season, it came around the mid point, and unlike portis Barber wasn't injured and he didn't have any 40+ year olds on the line blocking for him.

Save the excuses. Tell me what portis has done not what you think he is gonna do. It shows you are a homer.

[somebody509]

You could also look at how Portis only has 5 less TD's than Barber, even though barber like stated before has played 78 more games. Or that Barber has 50 fumbles against Portis' 16...Now I know barber has had more carries but if you think that those two numbers can compare you're an idiot.

[somebody509]

Save the excuses. Tell me what portis has done not what you think he is gonna do. It shows you are a homer.

Okay, he averages more yards per carry than Barber, along with fumbles the ball less.

[ShockeyZulu]

David Diehl? Come on now...

The rest I can see (although I doubt you would have included a third WR if you werent a Giants fan) but David Diehl over Randy Thomas is crazy talk.

David Diehl was a developing as a force as a run blocker and is much better and quicker at pulling. Plus Diehl is a Left Guard, while Randy Thomas has played majority of his career at Right Guard. Different positions for the purpose of these rankings.

Also, I listed 3 WRs when I first created this topic in December on this board, see the link on my first post if you want to read it. I use 3 WRs because more and more teams are using 3 WR sets in their base offenses.

[somebody509]

Also, I listed 3 WRs when I first created this topic in December on this board, see the link on my first post if you want to read it. I use 3 WRs because more and more teams are using 3 WR sets in their base offenses.

I agree with you on the receivers. I'd like to see Plaxico as the third and Llyod as the 4th.

[matt2190]

You could also look at how Portis only has 5 less TD's than Barber, even though barber like stated before has played 78 more games. Or that Barber has 50 fumbles against Portis' 16...Now I know barber has had more carries but if you think that those two numbers can compare you're an idiot.

tiki pro bowl team. Portis ?

[ShockeyZulu]

Portis came into a new offense recently and has had to learn that where as Barber has been with the Giants his whole carrer.


Okay, he averages more yards per carry than Barber, along with fumbles the ball less.

You couldn't be more wrong with those statements.

Nothing against Portis but he hasn't been on Tiki's level the last two years. Maybe that might change with Saunder's Chiefs style offense but that's yet to be seen.

[somebody509]

You couldn't be more wrong with those statements.

Both RBs have been in their current teams offensive (Coughlin's and Gibb's) systems for only two years. So if you compare them based on the last two years on their production, Tiki's been the better RB hands down.

Barber yards per carry the last two years is 5.0, only 3 lost fumbles and 26 total TDs.

Portis yards per carry the last two years is 4.0, he's lost 6 fumbles and only has 18 total TDs.

Nothing against Portis but he hasn't been on Tiki's level the last two years. Maybe that might change with Saunder's Chiefs style offense but that's yet to be seen.

True but he's had some of the same line stick with him. If you look at those stats you'll also see that Portis has been increasing his yards (he dropped from a 5.5 to a 3.8 his first year at washington) and than went up from a 3.8 to a 4.3, despite his injury, along with O-line problems.

[matt2190]

True but he's had some of the same line stick with him. If you look at those stats you'll also see that Portis has been increasing his yards (he dropped from a 5.5 to a 3.8 his first year at washington) and than went up from a 3.8 to a 4.3, despite his injury, along with O-line problems.


Give it up. Come back when you get older.

[somebody509]

tiki pro bowl team. Portis ?
On that comment, i have two things.
1) Portis was voted the most robbed player for not going to the Pro-Bowl
2) back to his injuries and offensive line problems...You can't tell me that Barber would have put up the same numbers with a shoulder injury. Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying Barber is a bad running back, he's a very good one. But I still have to go with portis. If you go back and look at Barbers first four years in the NFL he isn't even CLOSE to playing on the level that portis is on..

[somebody509]

Give it up. Come back when you get older.

What an argument.......:laugh:

[ShockeyZulu]

True but he's had some of the same line stick with him. If you look at those stats you'll also see that Portis has been increasing his yards (he dropped from a 5.5 to a 3.8 his first year at washington) and than went up from a 3.8 to a 4.3, despite his injury, along with O-line problems.

Why are you using that as an excuse? Are you saying Tiki Barber hasn't had O-Line problems? :laugh:

Barber hasn't had his starting O-line playing the same positions for about 5 years now. He's had 3 new starters in 2004 and 2 new starters in 2005 and not to mention having street free agents taking over for injured starters in both years.

But it seems like you like stats so much, let me end this discussion right now.:D

Both RBs have only been in their current teams offensive (Coughlin's and Gibb's) systems for only two years.

Here's their stats based on just those two years

Tiki Barber - 785 touches (carries/receptions) - 4,486 total yards - 5 yards per rushing attempt - 26 TDs - 40 plays with 20+ yards - 3 lost fumbles

Clinton Portis - 765 touches (carries/receptions) - 3,282 total yards - 4 yards per rushing attempt - 18 TDs - 13 plays with 20+ yards - 6 lost fumbles


So basically with almost the same amount of touches over the last two years, Tiki's got over 1,200+ more yards, averages 1 whole yard better per rushing attempt, 8 more TDs, and has less lost fumbles.

But in my opinion the biggest stat that shows their difference is the one that shows who the bigger playmaker is.....

Tiki Barber has 40 plays that went for 20+ yards compared to just 13 by Portis.

I'm not knocking Portis, in fact I think he's a great RB, but hard to argue with facts. Which is as of right now, Tiki Barber is the better RB between the two.

[matt2190]

What an argument.......:laugh:

Why do you always go back years or years in the future. At this time Barber is clearly better.

[kevinmk]

Tiki over portis, people forget how well Tiki blocks for a little guy! Osi over the Freak, IMO he is done! Plax as the #3 and you have to throw at least 1 of the Giants OLmen in there. Tiki rushed for a ton of yardage and Eli passed for almost 4000 yards.

[Eagles > Dallas]

Sean Taylor 2005
60 Tackles (70 Total)
1 Sack
1 Fumble Recover
2 Interceptions


Brian Dawkins 2005
66 Tackles (77 Total0
3.5 Sacks
1 Fumble Recovery
3 Interceptions


Sean Taylor Career
120 Tackles (146 Total)
2 Sacks
1 Fumble Recovery
4 Forced Fumbles
6 Interceptions
19 Passes Defended
1 Touchdown


Brian Dawkins Career
554 Tackles (707 Total)
17 Sacks
15 Fumble Recoveries
22 Forced Fumbles
28 Interceptions
100 Passes Defended
3 Touchdowns


Taylor is a solid safety in the NFL, but he will not reach the level of excellence that Dawkins has been playing on for years now.

[terpfan]

David Diehl was a developing as a force as a run blocker and is much better and quicker at pulling. Plus Diehl is a Left Guard, while Randy Thomas has played majority of his career at Right Guard. Different positions for the purpose of these rankings.
Thomas is a monster pulling... sorry I dont buy it. I dont think its a coincidence that you are the ONLY one on this thread who has even mentioned Diehl.

WRs isnt a big deal, just mentioning it. I do think Plax is the third best WR.

[a_good_brotha]

I like the choice of Portis over Tiki. Sure Tiki had a great year, but it seems to me that Portis got the ball at times on poorly drawn up plays or bad blocking. It's kind of hard to get yards when you got two defenders in the backfield as soon as your handed the ball, which did happen to Portis at times.

[matt2190]

I like the choice of Portis over Tiki. Sure Tiki had a great year, but it seems to me that Portis got the ball at times on poorly drawn up plays or bad blocking. It's kind of hard to get yards when you got two defenders in the backfield as soon as your handed the ball, which did happen to Portis at times.

So on what planet does that make portis better than Tiki.:doh:

[Bangee7]

My Starting O from the NFC East.......

QB - D McNabb
RB - T Barber
H-B C Cooley
TE - J Shockey
WR - S Moss
WR - T Owens
LT - C Samuels
LG - D Diehl
C - H Fraley
RG - R Thomas
RT - J Runyan

[Dirk Diggler]

Why are you using that as an excuse? Are you saying Tiki Barber hasn't had O-Line problems? :laugh:

Barber hasn't had his starting O-line playing the same positions for about 5 years now. He's had 3 new starters in 2004 and 2 new starters in 2005 and not to mention having street free agents taking over for injured starters in both years.

But it seems like you like stats so much, let me end this discussion right now.:D

Both RBs have only been in their current teams offensive (Coughlin's and Gibb's) systems for only two years.

Here's their stats based on just those two years

Tiki Barber - 785 touches (carries/receptions) - 4,486 total yards - 5 yards per rushing attempt - 26 TDs - 40 plays with 20+ yards - 3 lost fumbles

Clinton Portis - 765 touches (carries/receptions) - 3,282 total yards - 4 yards per rushing attempt - 18 TDs - 13 plays with 20+ yards - 6 lost fumbles


So basically with almost the same amount of touches over the last two years, Tiki's got over 1,200+ more yards, averages 1 whole yard better per rushing attempt, 8 more TDs, and has less lost fumbles.

But in my opinion the biggest stat that shows their difference is the one that shows who the bigger playmaker is.....

Tiki Barber has 40 plays that went for 20+ yards compared to just 13 by Portis.

I'm not knocking Portis, in fact I think he's a great RB, but hard to argue with facts. Which is as of right now, Tiki Barber is the better RB between the two.

Interesting points. Big plays are pretty important. So are negative plays i.e. runs for a loss. Portis rarely gets caught behind the line unlike Barber.

Not surprisingly, Portis had a career before Washington that you have completely discounted. You chose to use only the last two years for your comparison which just happen to be Barber's best. Portis "down" year where he only rushed for 1300 yards would have had Giants fans dancing in the streets back in 1999. But he got back to his usual self and ran for about 1500 and double digit TDs yet again. Is that the usual Barber or will Barber go back to the inconsistent ways that have marked his career?

Fact is, only 1 rusher in the history of football have had a better start to his careers than Portis: Eric Dickerson. Portis is clearly on the upswing. Barber isn't. Enjoy the last year or 2 with Barber before the wheels fall off.

[GiantsFanMan]

Forget what portis can/could do. Forget what barber did do in the past. When you look at HBs in the NFL today Other then Alexander Tiki is the 2nd best HB in the NFL. Comparing Tiki and Portis should not even be a option at this point. Its insane!!!! If you where building a team sure you take Portis because he is younger and has more years ahead of him. Still for one season it be stupid not take take Tiki. He is basicly the best all around HB in the NFL now. He surpassed Tomlinson last year clearly.

[GiantsFanMan]

Portis came into a new offense recently and has had to learn that where as Barber has been with the Giants his whole carrer....Portis averages more yards per carry, and even though Barber has played 78 more games than portis, he only has less than 3,000 yards on him....If you do the math and get it to where they've played the same amount of games Portis would have about 5,500 more yards than Barber and thats giving him only 1,350 yards per season when he averages about 1,500. A lot of people do have injuries late in the season, but Portis' didn't come late in the season, it came around the mid point, and unlike Portis Barber wasn't injured and he didn't have any 40+ year olds on the line blocking for him. You can not compare games played to look at running backs. You look at how many carries they got. Portis has 1258 attemps, 5930 yards, 4.7 YPC, 35 plays of 20 yards or more, and 45 TDs. Tiki by the time he had 1258 attemps has 5616 yards, 4.5 APC, 39 plays of 20 yards or more, and 30 TDs. They really are similar stats. Shame Ron "Fat man scoop" Dayne held Tiki back for so long. I wounder what Tiki would have done if he had got the rock more back then. Still this shows why Tiki so good even though he 30 years old. It took him 7+ years to get as many rushs as full time back like Portis got in just 4 years.

[CurseReversed]

portis is a better blocker then tiki, how does that factor in?

[Sinclair]

Forget what portis can/could do. Forget what barber did do in the past. When you look at HBs in the NFL today Other then Alexander Tiki is the 2nd best HB in the NFL. Comparing Tiki and Portis should not even be a option at this point. Its insane!!!! If you where building a team sure you take Portis because he is younger and has more years ahead of him. Still for one season it be stupid not take take Tiki. He is basicly the best all around HB in the NFL now. He surpassed Tomlinson last year clearly.

You dont think really think that do you...and if so, did you watch any games besides giants games????!

[Eli to Burress]

What are we comparing here. Their careers or who we want after last season. If you take careers up to this point into consideration than I have Moss ranked behind T.O.,Glenn, Burress, and Toomer. I mean if Portis gets the nod over Barber because his last four season's have been marginally better, than Moss is lucking to be 5th based on his career up to this point. If we're basing this solely on last year than Moss may be the best WR in the East but Tiki would clearly be the better back. So what is it?

[HoyaSkins28]

yeah that is being too much of a homer...where's Steve Smith?? Shawn Alexander? Hutchinson?

Since when are the Panthers Seahawks and Vikings in the NFC East???

[matt2190]

Interesting points. Big plays are pretty important. So are negative plays i.e. runs for a loss. Portis rarely gets caught behind the line unlike Barber.

Not surprisingly, Portis had a career before Washington that you have completely discounted. You chose to use only the last two years for your comparison which just happen to be Barber's best. Portis "down" year where he only rushed for 1300 yards would have had Giants fans dancing in the streets back in 1999. But he got back to his usual self and ran for about 1500 and double digit TDs yet again. Is that the usual Barber or will Barber go back to the inconsistent ways that have marked his career?

Fact is, only 1 rusher in the history of football have had a better start to his careers than Portis: Eric Dickerson. Portis is clearly on the upswing. Barber isn't. Enjoy the last year or 2 with Barber before the wheels fall off.


So you agree that presently Tiki is the better back?

[matt2190]

portis is a better blocker then tiki, how does that factor in?

How do you back that up? Brunell was sacked more the Eli last season.

[ShockeyZulu]

Thomas is a monster pulling... sorry I dont buy it. I dont think its a coincidence that you are the ONLY one on this thread who has even mentioned Diehl.

WRs isnt a big deal, just mentioning it. I do think Plax is the third best WR.

I still don't understand why several of you guys are still trying to compare Thomas whose a Right Guard to Diehl whose a Left Guard, different positions. :doh:

Larry Allen was the best Left Guard in the division but the Cowboys cut him. So that leaves the remaining group of Left Guards of David Diehl, Derrick Dockery and Artis Hicks. Out of that groups Diehl has been the best. He's started all three years he's been in the NFL at three different positions of RG, RT and LG. Although once he settled in at LG he started to excell. He should even take a bigger step forward as now he'll be going into this season playing the same position of the prior year for the first time in his career.

As for Randy Thomas, he's a very good player and a mauler. Prior to last season I'd say he was the best Right Guard in the division. Although in 2005, two second year RG really came on strong and passed him in Chris Snee and Shane Andrews. Right now you can make a case for any 3 of them as being the best but Thomas isn't the clear cut choice he was a year ago.

[ShockeyZulu]

Not surprisingly, Portis had a career before Washington that you have completely discounted.

It's not surprising that the Broncos O-line coach Alex Gibbs goes to the Broncos and all of a sudden Warrick Dunn explodes into a Pro Bowl player.

It's not surprising that Clinton Portis averaged 5.5 yards per carry as a Bronco, just like it's not surprising Tatum Bell averaged 5.3 yards per carry. Even Ron F'n Dayne averaged 5.1 per carry as a Bronco. :laugh:

Just like it's not surprising Reuben Droughns dropped his yards per carry from 4.5 to 4.0 since leaving the Broncos.

Just like it's not surprising Clinton Portis dropped his yards per carry from 5.5 to 4.0 since he left the Broncos too.

So of course it's not surprising that's I've discounted his stats in Denver. With O-line coaching and style of play, it's been proven any RB and strive in that offense.


Portis is clearly on the upswing. Barber isn't. Enjoy the last year or 2 with Barber before the wheels fall off.

Don't know why some of you guys keep on trying to look into the future. We're talking about comparing Barber and Portis right now, not 2-3 years from now.

Like I said before, both backs have been in their offensive (Coughlin's and Gibb's) system's for two years and that's what we're all comparing the two on.

Here's their stats based on just those two years

Tiki Barber - 785 touches (carries/receptions) - 4,486 total yards - 5 yards per rushing attempt - 26 TDs - 40 plays with 20+ yards - 3 lost fumbles

Clinton Portis - 765 touches (carries/receptions) - 3,282 total yards - 4 yards per rushing attempt - 18 TDs - 13 plays with 20+ yards - 6 lost fumbles

It's clear from those stats that, AS OF RIGHT NOW, Barber is the far better back between the two.

Doesn't mean that can change in a year or two, especially with Saunder's Chiefs style offense Portis will be playing in but right now hard to argue Barber isn't better the Portis.

[RobMexico]

Man there are some serious homers here.


QB: Donovan McNabb (injury last year aside, he is the best QB in the division)
RB: Tiki Barber (I know you Skins fans love Portis, but he’s the second best back in the division, not the best)
FB: Mike Sellars
WR: Terrell Owens
WR: Santana Moss
TE: Jeremy Shockey (I love Witten, but Shockey is a little better)
Ts: Chris Samuels, Runyun
Gs: Randy Thomas/Chris Snee
C: doesn’t matter

DEs: Strahan/Osi (Giants own here)
DTs: Griffen/Fergusen
OLBs: Washington/Ware
MLB: Trotter
CBs: Newman/Sheppard
FS: Taylor
SS: Williams

K: Vanderjact
P: Feagles
KR: T. Thompson
PR: Randel El


Least Homer/Most Realistic Starting Lineup

[ChiefPowhatan17]

Honestly, and be honest now, if you were a GM and your QB was either Brunell, Eli, or Bledsoe and the Eagles offered you McNabb straight up, would you or would you not take that deal.....outside of Eli, who is young...its a real no brainer...

I understand what you are saying. I was strictly going off of last year's performance not reputation or age. Brunell should've been in the pro bowl last year on his numbers. Yes he had some bad games, but I am saying he performed the best in the East most recently. All division team sounded like an all star team, I based it on what was done on the field last year.:logo:

[ShockeyZulu]

I understand what you are saying. I was strictly going off of last year's performance not reputation or age. Brunell should've been in the pro bowl last year on his numbers. Yes he had some bad games, but I am saying he performed the best in the East most recently. All division team sounded like an all star team, I based it on what was done on the field last year.:logo:

Out of all the QBs in the NFC East, McNabb is the best overall heading into this season.

But since you wanted to base it on last season, wouldn't you pick Manning or Bledsoe over Brunnell? All three were very up and down throughout the year. In fact Eli was the best of the three from Sept-Nov untill he his a wall in Decemember were he threw only 4 TDs to 10 INTs.

The only thing Brunell has over Manning and Bledsoe in the regular season is throwing 7 fewer INTs then both of them but that's about it. He just barely cracked 3,000 yards passing.

Manning - 3,762 passing yards - 24 TDs - 17 INT - 49 plays over 20+ yards

Bledsoe - 3,639 passing yards - 23 TDs - 17 INT - 42 plays over 20+ yards

Brunnell - 3,050 passing yards - 23 TDs - 10 INT - 36 plays over 20+ yards

[yazzmode621]

Forget what portis can/could do. Forget what barber did do in the past. When you look at HBs in the NFL today Other then Alexander Tiki is the 2nd best HB in the NFL. Comparing Tiki and Portis should not even be a option at this point. Its insane!!!! If you where building a team sure you take Portis because he is younger and has more years ahead of him. Still for one season it be stupid not take take Tiki. He is basicly the best all around HB in the NFL now. He surpassed Tomlinson last year clearly.

Ok, clearly you're a huge homer if you'd take Tiki over Tomlinson.

[yazzmode621]

Out of all the QBs in the NFC East, McNabb is the best overall heading into this season.

But since you wanted to base it on last season, wouldn't you pick Manning or Bledsoe over Brunnell? All three were very up and down throughout the year. In fact Eli was the best of the three from Sept-Nov untill he his a wall in Decemember were he threw only 4 TDs to 10 INTs.

The only thing Brunell has over Manning and Bledsoe in the regular season is throwing 7 fewer INTs then both of them but that's about it. He just barely cracked 3,000 yards passing.

Manning - 3,762 passing yards - 24 TDs - 17 INT - 49 plays over 20+ yards

Bledsoe - 3,639 passing yards - 23 TDs - 17 INT - 42 plays over 20+ yards

Brunnell - 3,050 passing yards - 23 TDs - 10 INT - 36 plays over 20+ yards

u say 7 ints like its nothing. You also have to take into consideration that Brunell had only Moss and Cooley for the most part. When Patten was still playing(although he is nothing special) Brunell was playing at an awesome level. Not to mention the timing of those plays. For example, the two bombs Brunell had to Moss to win the game against the Cowboys. Or The INT that Bledsoe threw that cost them the game against the Seahawks.

[HoyaSkins28]

McNabb
Portis
Moss TO
Cooley
Shockey
Sellers
Samuels
Thomas/Rivera
rabach
jansen

kearse/osi
griffin/joseph
washington
pierce
jones
springs/sheppard
taylor
williams

randle el
randle el
akers
feagles

[Enter Apotheosis]

Ok, clearly you're a huge homer if you'd take Tiki over Tomlinson.

I agree with that 100%.

Giantsfanman, you do realize that one of the major reasons the Chargers didn't make the playoffs this past season is because they underutilized LT in quite a few of there games, don't you? LT is incredibly effective and the Chargers almost always win when he gets a minimum of 25 touches a game. They leaned a bit too much on Brees.

You also have to take into account that LT is still in the prime of his career and has decisively outperformed an aging Tiki Barber in 4 of the 6 years he's been in the league. Sometime in the next year or two, your beloved RB will bottom out (ala Curtis Martin) because of his age.

[FootballGuy2677]

Snee not better than Thomas....that's a gooooooood one! LOL!


Yea lol. Theres no way Snee is better than Randy Thomas. I think your the one on drugs....

[[[ghost]]]

qb- donovan mcnabb
rb- tiki/portis (interchangable)
fb- sellers
te- shockey, witten
h-b- COOLEY
wr- moss
wr- TO
wr- plax
t- samuels
t- flozell
g- thomas
g- rivera
c- fraley


de- osi
de- strahan
dt- griffin
dt- glover (although he isn't there anymore)
cb- sheppard
cb- springs/newman
s- taylor
s- dawkins
lb- washington
lb- pierce
lb- ware

k- akers
p- feagles

kr- randel el

[CPstretch]

thomas is the best guard in the nfl east. no questions asked.

[terpfan]

I still don't understand why several of you guys are still trying to compare Thomas whose a Right Guard to Diehl whose a Left Guard, different positions. :doh:
Come on, like its that different. The Pro Bowl doesnt differentiate. Why should the NFC East team?

Thomas is better than Snee anyway.

[HoyaSkins28]

thomas is the best guard in the nfl east. no questions asked.
yea, no one even touches him.

[TK]

You don't read much do you stupid....
You want to be called Pot or Kettle?

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I guess you really can't fix stupid.
I know how to silence its voice until it has a better understanding of the rules, so there's hope you can be fixed.

[cowboyuptx]

I agree with you on the receivers. I'd like to see Plaxico as the third and Llyod as the 4th.


[QUOTE=ShockeyZulu]
WR - Terrell Owens, Santana Moss and Plaxico Burress
All three of these receivers have been impact players and currently are the best receivers in the divison. Owens when he has his head on straight is one of the most gifted receivers in the entire league. Moss has added an explosive threat to the Redskins offense. Burress has given the Giants a true deep threat and a go-to WR for Eli. No other WR in this division comes close to these three.[QUOTE]



Terry Glenn can compare to those 3.

Please!!! Lloyd the 4th best in the NFCE........ I think not!

Lloyd cant carry Terry Glenns jock!

Heck its debatable, if Plaxico should be put ahead of Glenn.

It's best to know what the heck you're talking about.... before making homerish proclamations.;)



Here's the stats....


TERRY GLENN

Year--- Team ---No.--- Yards--- Avg.--- Lg.-- TD--- +20 ---+40--- FD

2005--- Dallas--- 62---- 1136--- 18.3--- 71--- 7----- 18------ 7--- 49


PLAXICO BURRESS

Year--- Team--- No.--- Yards--- Avg.--- Lg. --TD--- +20 --- +40--- FD

2005--- NYG---- 76 ----1214 ----16.0 ---78 ---7 ---- 20 ---- 5----- 49


BRANDON LLOYD ????

Year--- Team ---No. ----Yards--- Avg. -- Lg.-- TD--- +20--- +40--- FD

2005 ----SF ---- 48 ---- 733 ---15.3 --- 89 --- 5 ----- 9 ---- 3 ----34

[[[ghost]]]

You know more than me about.....football. i call Shennanigans. No Skins fan kinows more about football than anybody anywhere. This includes soccer fans. You people are Skins fans not football fans.

In addition, my having 8 posts means what again? Oh, that I browse the boards instead of clicking on funny little pro-Redskin icons and make bold Super Bowl predictions. Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha! Whatever son. You still need people to buy you beer. Don't worry, I understand you are going through some changes with your voice and all, but things will get better.


i love how you made a smart comment about his age, then proceed to talk about puberty, which he probably experienced some 6-7 years before...:doh:

[LoudMouth12thMan]

Osi or Strahan at DE. WR Moss and Plaxico(except for choking in the playoffs). QB McNabb? Brunell was better and helped get us to the playoffs. So if based on last season ya gotta go Brunell, but McNabb overall is cool. RB ya gotta say Tikki last year, but Portis is a better overall Back by a long shot. Nice post something to think about to pass the off-season state of boredom.
Thanks,
HTTR!

[matt2190]

Its not even a debate Plax had 13 more receptions. If you were honest and someone asked you which wide receiver you wanted for one season between Plax and Glenn. You would have to say Plaxico. Not as fast as glenn but has good speed. Great hands, goes over the middle, goes deep, and is one of the best run blocking receivers in the league. Glenn is good but he is a level below. Plaxico is on par with Moss but Moss had a better season than him last year so if you were to take one it would be moss at the moment. T.O. is one of the best receivers of all time and is a sure hall of famer. Forget division he is the best in the league but I still would not want him on my team. He is too high maintenance.






[QUOTE=ShockeyZulu]
WR - Terrell Owens, Santana Moss and Plaxico Burress
All three of these receivers have been impact players and currently are the best receivers in the divison. Owens when he has his head on straight is one of the most gifted receivers in the entire league. Moss has added an explosive threat to the Redskins offense. Burress has given the Giants a true deep threat and a go-to WR for Eli. No other WR in this division comes close to these three.[QUOTE]



Terry Glenn can compare to those 3.

Please!!! Lloyd the 4th best in the NFCE........ I think not!

Lloyd cant carry Terry Glenns jock!

Heck its debatable, if Plaxico should be put ahead of Glenn.

It's best to know what the heck you're talking about.... before making homerish proclamations.;)



Here's the stats....


TERRY GLENN

Year--- Team ---No.--- Yards--- Avg.--- Lg.-- TD--- +20 ---+40--- FD

2005--- Dallas--- 62---- 1136--- 18.3--- 71--- 7----- 18------ 7--- 49


PLAXICO BURRESS

Year--- Team--- No.--- Yards--- Avg.--- Lg. --TD--- +20 --- +40--- FD

2005--- NYG---- 76 ----1214 ----16.0 ---78 ---7 ---- 20 ---- 5----- 49


BRANDON LLOYD ????

Year--- Team ---No. ----Yards--- Avg. -- Lg.-- TD--- +20--- +40--- FD

2005 ----SF ---- 48 ---- 733 ---15.3 --- 89 --- 5 ----- 9 ---- 3 ----34

[matt2190]

Osi or Strahan at DE. WR Moss and Plaxico(except for choking in the playoffs). QB McNabb? Brunell was better and helped get us to the playoffs. So if based on last season ya gotta go Brunell, but McNabb overall is cool. RB ya gotta say Tikki last year, but Portis is a better overall Back by a long shot. Nice post something to think about to pass the off-season state of boredom.
Thanks,
HTTR!

Explain to me how Portis is a better overall back by a long shot?

[supafly]

Explain to me how Portis is a better overall back by a long shot?

Portis does so many other things outside of just running the ball. You will see him involved on every play either blocking, tackling, or receiving. I think I even remember him running somebody down and saving the touchdown once. I cant even begin to count the number of times he's saved MB from getting sacked.

[matt2190]

Portis does so many other things outside of just running the ball. You will see him involved on every play either blocking, tackling, or receiving. I think I even remember him running somebody down and saving the touchdown once. I cant even begin to count the number of times he's saved MB from getting sacked.

How do you know Tiki does not do the same things or do them better than Portis? Do you have any real numbers to back up your point?

[dmac2341]

all based on last season

qb- Eli Manning
rb- tiki because he is more of an all around back (can catch, block, obviously run,
fb- sellers
te- shockey
h-b- COOLEY
wr- moss
wr- TO
wr- plax
lt- samuels
rt- Mckenzie
rg- thomas
lg- diehl
c- fraley


de- osi
de- strahan
dt- griffin
dt- Patterson
cb- Sheppard
cb- Newman
fs- Dawkins
ss- Roy Williams
lb- ware
lb- pierce
lb- washington

k- akers
p- feagles

kr- Morton

positions are based on the yahoo depth chart from last season.

and for those redskins fans that say OMG OMG PORTIS IS BETTER THAN TIKI i think you might want to rethink that because hands down tiki is the best back in the nfc east with portis not even a close second. Of all the games i've seen of portis he's always had a good o-line(in denver and in wash), cannot catch the ball all the well, but i'll give him credit he can block(somewhat) and can run. Tiki is an all around back, he catches really well out of the backfield and can even line up as a slot wr, blocks well for his size, hasn't had a decent o-line until this year(except for puke pettigout), and the cut backs tiki's makes are amazing breaking those d-line and lb's ankles.
If you look at stats tiki out did portis last year on runs 20+ yds tiki:16 Portis: a measly 6. tiki just out does portis on stats being with a team that hasn't reallyed used him all the time since 3 years ago. that's my opinion backed up with some facts

[DatBoySk]

QB= Mcnabb
RB= Portis
FB=Sellers
TE=Shockey
WR1=Moss
WR2=Plax
WR3=Lloyd
LT=Samuels
RT=Jansen
RG=Thomas
LG=DIEHL
C=Fraley

DE=Kearse
Dt=Walker
Dt=Griffin
DE=Strahan
CB=Springs
CB=Newman
FS=Taylor
SS=Williams
LOLB=Washington
MLB=Marshall
ROLB=Ayodele

[Res_Novae]

all based on last season

qb- Eli Manning
rb- tiki because he is more of an all around back (can catch, block, obviously run, This is easily debatable, however, don't underestimate Clinton Portis. From the two Giant games I see a year, he blocks and catches equal to or better than Tiki..Tiki just runs better as of last year. However, he's also more experianced, so give Portis a year or two, he'll be better than Tiki ever was.
fb- sellers
te- shockey
h-b- COOLEY
wr- moss
wr- TO
wr- plax I'd put Terry Glenn here if he is still on the Cowboys. He's quick, and fast, and has decent hands. Plus, I'm not a big fan of Plaxi-glass Burress. He tends to break a lot.
I may also replace that WR spot with a #2 RB, being Brian Westbrook. A backfield with Westbrook and Portis/Tiki together would be extremely dangerous, especially when one of them motions out to the slot. Think of the reverses :-D
lt- samuels
rt- MckenzieHate to add another cowboy, but this is lacking Adams.
rg- thomas
lg- diehl
c- fraley


de- osi
de- strahan
dt- griffin
dt- Patterson
cb- Sheppard
cb- Newman Would put Springs here, he adds a blitzing element and is a much better tackler than Newman. This team has its "great amazing" cover corner in Sheppard, and you could always use more tackling in the secondary.
fs- Dawkins
ss- Roy Williams Sorry...Put Taylor here...he's less of a liability in coverage. Sure, he doesn't actually play that position, but he can do it better than Williams.
lb- ware
lb- pierce
lb- washington

k- akers
p- feagles

kr- Morton

positions are based on the yahoo depth chart from last season.

and for those redskins fans that say OMG OMG PORTIS IS BETTER THAN TIKI i think you might want to rethink that because hands down tiki is the best back in the nfc east with portis not even a close second. Of all the games i've seen of portis he's always had a good o-line(in denver and in wash), cannot catch the ball all the well He catches about as well as Tiki.... , but i'll give him credit he can block(somewhat) You obviously miss him blocking some of your blitzers, chip blocking Osi/Strahan, and lighting up that Eagles LB... and can run. Tiki is an all around back, he catches really well out of the backfield and can even line up as a slot wr, blocks well for his size, hasn't had a decent o-line until this year(except for puke pettigout), and the cut backs tiki's makes are amazing breaking those d-line and lb's ankles.
If you look at stats tiki out did portis last year on runs 20+ yds tiki:16 Portis: a measly 6. tiki just out does portis on stats being with a team that hasn't reallyed used him all the time since 3 years ago. that's my opinion backed up with some facts
It wasn't just the o-line that gave Tiki problems, he also had problems keeping a grip on the ball untill a couple years ago. He wasn't relied on as much then because of the fumblitis. Now that he has it solved, he's exploded as a reliable back. It's less of the O-Line's fault that you make it out to be, and more of Tiki's inability to effectively keep a handle on the ball.

[dmac2341]

we're all intitled to our own opinions and that's my opinion on the best in the nfc east you may have other opinions. the reason i pick plax over glenn is plax was the 1st wr and was double covered and pressed later in the season while glenn was open more often with 1 on 1 coverage with k. johnson.

i think brian dawkins is a better free safety than taylor that's why roy williams is in instead of taylor BECAUSE ROY WILLIAMS IS A STRONG SAFETY while taylor was listed as free safety according to yahoo as i stated at the bottom of the post.

i do agree with your opinion on springs but it couldn't be too bad having 2 cover corners could it?

not trying to be biased towards tiki in any way but his stats do prove he's been the better back this past year and the year before than portis. in that 2 year span both players(tiki/portis) has had a new coaching staff(portis going to washington and tiki getting coughlin and company) and i don't why u talk about tiki fumbling b/c i didn't say anything about it his fumbling but his o-line sucked you can't shy away from that last year was the best o-line tiki ever had and it shown in the huge increase from the year before.

@ Datboysk - this thread isn't about what you believe to be the "all nfc east team" next year it's from this past year and a few players in your list were not on a nfc east team yet. and what are you smoking thinking brandom lloyd will be the third best wr in the nfc east next year, he really hasn't proved anything during his career and won't do much in washington next year either.

my 4 cents

[DatBoySk]

well my bad and he has proved himsefl to me making all those catches in good coverage with a garbage QB throwing him the ball and im intitled to my own opinion and what are you smoking picking dawkins over taylor

[dmac2341]

sorry datboysk i just reread my post and it seemed alittle harsh =\

[cowboyuptx]

Its not even a debate Plax had 13 more receptions. If you were honest and someone asked you which wide receiver you wanted for one season between Plax and Glenn. You would have to say Plaxico. Not as fast as glenn but has good speed. Great hands, goes over the middle, goes deep, and is one of the best run blocking receivers in the league. Glenn is good but he is a level below. Plaxico is on par with Moss but Moss had a better season than him last year so if you were to take one it would be moss at the moment. T.O. is one of the best receivers of all time and is a sure hall of famer. Forget division he is the best in the league but I still would not want him on my team. He is too high maintenance.


Oh its debatable! Yeah, Plax averaged 0.75 more catches per game (whoodi-hoo) and about 4.5 more yards per game, but Glenn averaged 2.3 more yards per reception.

They both had 25 receptions for +20 yards, 7 of Glenns went for over 40 yards, Plax had only 5 for over 40.

They both had 49 First-downs and both had 7 Touchdowns..... so what did those 13 extra catches account for anyway ????

The way I see it, Glenn only needed to get the ball 62 times....... to equal the production it took Plaxico 75 catches accumulate.

If I was picking a fantasy football team for 2006 and I had to choose between the 2 (assuming the cost was equal), I would take Burress.
Owens is gonna eat up a bunch of Glenns yards this year.
However, if we're talking about 2005, Glenn had a slightly better season IMO.

Moss had an awesome season last year, but stats aside.....(this is gonna ruffle the feathers Skins fans) Moss and T.Glenn are basically the same player (IMO). Plax is a much different type of WR, but I'd put all 3 in the same echelon........ a small step below Owens.

BTW, I wish TO weren't on my team either. He's such a *****!