Front office vs "Skin for Life"

[floydfurillo]

I have been reading in the other threads all this crap against Lavar for saying he wanted to be a "Skin for Life". What player will we ever have going forward that will be a Skin for Life. That is a two-way committment between the player and the front office. Under the Dan Snyder regime of multiple coaching staffs, glamorous free-agent signings instead of building thru the draft and back-loaded contracts where we have to release players instead of paying them in the later years of the contract when the real money kicks in, there will never be another Skin for Life. Jon Jansen is the longest tenured Redskin followed by Chris Samuels and I guarantee, neither of them will finish their careers with the Redskins. The coaches and front office talk out of both sides of their mouths too. I remember last year both Greg Williams and Joe Gibbs singing the praises of Ryan Clark and how he was their type of Redskin. Smart, hard-worker, did what was asked of him, made plays etc, etc. and we went out and signed another big-time free-agent to replace him. Its a two-way street.

[Burgold]

It is, but while Lavar was saying he wanted to be a 'Skin for life he was simultaneously bad mouthing the organization and blaming them for his injuries, jeering his team (preseasons), and calling them crooks and frauds about his contract.

[floydfurillo]

When was he "jeering his team (preseasons)" examples?

[Abshir]

I specifically liked him becuase of his "Skins for life Mantra", now I am saddened to say Eat Sh*t LAVAR !!!!

[floydfurillo]

Please don't make this another Lavar thread, we have enough of those. This was to about if there can really be such a thing as a "Skin for life" given the current management regime in place.

[cfcrider]

Look at the Patriots. Do they have "Patriot for Life?" I don't even think Tom Brady will retire as a Patriot. As a football fan, we root for the team, not for a single skin. If releasing people we love benefits the team, so be it - I want our team to win.

[jrmooref]

lavar is gone, time to move on :gaintsuck :gaintsuck :gaintsuck

[Burgold]

Ah, sorry floydfurillo.

Yes, there can be a 'skin for a life. It's certainly much harder with free agency, but there will be some players who will stay and personify the 'skins. Strangely, some of our favorite Redskins for life weren't originally Redskins. Sonny, Riggins, Dave Butz, all came from elsewhere, but once they found their home they became Redskins. I think it really revolves around success. If the 'skins are successful then we will really build a core of guys who stay a long time. Right now, Jansen looks to be a 'skin for life. In reality, until we consistently win... it sort of makes sense that both players and management will be looking for better situations.

[skinstzar]

There are some valid point made here

Champ Bailey
Fred Smoot
Lavar Arrington
Antonio Pierce
Laverneus Coles
Ryan Clark

All these guys where really selfish players, it was all about them and the team was just second fiddle. These guys never had the heart to be Redskins, they never put in the hard work. They were never "Core Redskins". Right?


I just wonder why their teammates on their current teams speak so highly of them? Sure you can't keep everybody. This is a business but come on. To even suggest that this organization has done a good job with player personnel is just ludicrous. This organization hasn't won a dam thing in a very, very long time. We have suffered through losing season after losing season and false promises. Only recently has Joe Gibbs brought us a glimmer of hope. Don't get me wrong I love Joe Gibbs and I think he may be the single best football mind of all time, but he won't be here forever. Right now this organization has a lot to prove. They better prove it in the next two years because there are no excuses now. We have the so called players we want now and it better dam well pay off. Or else we will start to see the end years of these contracts circling around again. If you don't think that players like Clinton Portis, Marcus Washington, Joe Salvea, Shawn Springs, Conrelius Griffin, Randy Thomas, John Jansen and Chris Samuels won't go the way of the previous marquee players before them, then your crazy.

[Xameil]

Samuels is going to be, or close to skin for life.

[pvkeeper19]

To be a 'Skin for life is going to take some serious commitment from the player. He'll have to be willing to stay on in Washington and make less money than he could elsewhere, while convincing the team that he's so irreplaceable they can't afford to trade him. Jansen seems to me to be the most likely to last a long time as a Redskin.

[Grimm]

There are some valid point made here

Champ Bailey
Fred Smoot
Lavar Arrington
Antonio Pierce
Laverneus Coles
Ryan Clark


I wouldn't lump Ryan Clark in here, seems to me they let him go to sign Archuleta, he seemed like a good "Redskins type guy" who didn't have a ton of talent but made the most with what he had.

[Burgold]

Yeah, I don't think I would Pierce in there either. Still, like him. Some of his comments ring like bitterness to me, like a spurned ex.

[Loxley]

I thought that Clark left because he wanted more money than the FO wanted to give him. Sounds like they thought he wasnt worth the dollars. Purely a business deal. Dont forget that money factors into everything.

[floydfurillo]

Look at the Patriots. Do they have "Patriot for Life?" I don't even think Tom Brady will retire as a Patriot. As a football fan, we root for the team, not for a single skin. If releasing people we love benefits the team, so be it - I want our team to win.

A team with one playoff appearance since since 1999 has released players for the benefit of the team?

The number of current starters drafted by the Patriots since 2000 - 14

The number of current starters drafted by the Redskins since 2000 - 5 (Cooley, Dockery, Samuels,Rogers, Taylor) - the lowest number among all the teams in the NFL

The next lower number is the Vikings, Bucs and Dolphins with 7 each.

[Xameil]

I wouldn't lump Ryan Clark in here, seems to me they let him go to sign Archuleta, he seemed like a good "Redskins type guy" who didn't have a ton of talent but made the most with what he had.


The FO wanted Clark, they just didn't want to shell out the money he wanted. They gave him an offer, he chose to reject it.

[Mooka]

The FO wanted Clark, they just didn't want to shell out the money he wanted. They gave him an offer, he chose to reject it.


I thought that Clark left because he wanted more money than the FO wanted to give him. Sounds like they thought he wasnt worth the dollars. Purely a business deal. Dont forget that money factors into everything. No, he left because we were bringing in Arch no matter what and he didn't wanna be a backup.

It's not like he hit the big pay-day from Pittsburgh, but he's supposed to be Hope's replacement.

[Mark]

Are you sure Laverneus Coles is a candidate for a "Skin for life" maybe he should run for a "Jet for life".

[Avg Joe]

There are some valid point made here

Champ Bailey
Fred Smoot
Lavar Arrington
Antonio Pierce
Laverneus Coles
Ryan Clark

All these guys where really selfish players, it was all about them and the team was just second fiddle. These guys never had the heart to be Redskins, they never put in the hard work. They were never "Core Redskins". Right?


I just wonder why their teammates on their current teams speak so highly of them? Sure you can't keep everybody. This is a business but come on. To even suggest that this organization has done a good job with player personnel is just ludicrous. This organization hasn't won a dam thing in a very, very long time. We have suffered through losing season after losing season and false promises. Only recently has Joe Gibbs brought us a glimmer of hope. Don't get me wrong I love Joe Gibbs and I think he may be the single best football mind of all time, but he won't be here forever. Right now this organization has a lot to prove. They better prove it in the next two years because there are no excuses now. We have the so called players we want now and it better dam well pay off. Or else we will start to see the end years of these contracts circling around again. If you don't think that players like Clinton Portis, Marcus Washington, Joe Salvea, Shawn Springs, Conrelius Griffin, Randy Thomas, John Jansen and Chris Samuels won't go the way of the previous marquee players before them, then your crazy.

*nods in agreement*

The organization has more to do with a player being a "so and so for life" than
the player does. He's a lifer until the money says it's time to cut him.

[frankbones]

A team with one playoff appearance since since 1999 has released players for the benefit of the team?

The number of current starters drafted by the Patriots since 2000 - 14

The number of current starters drafted by the Redskins since 2000 - 5 (Cooley, Dockery, Samuels,Rogers, Taylor) - the lowest number among all the teams in the NFL

The next lower number is the Vikings, Bucs and Dolphins with 7 each.

Actually it's 2 playoff appearances.

And to your other point, so what? Look at the players we've brought in through FA. Players like Marcus Washington, Santana Moss, Shawn Springs, Cornelius Griffin have all been studs for us. Who cares if we didn't draft them? Who cares how you get the players, as long as they produce on the field.

Oh, and last time I checked Jon Jansen, Lemar Marshall, and Mike Sellars all began their career with the Redskins,

[jivelikenice]

I do beleive the Skins FO is trying to keep core Redskins, but there is only a limit on core Skins they can keep and the LA's and Smoot's of the world just don't fit into that equation....

Lavar: More style than substance and injury problems...Also doesn't get along with the coaching staff (Lindsey)

Smoot: I liked him but he was overrated bigtime and it proved out in Minnesota...

Champ: Wanted out, there was no reason to keep him around as a core player

Pierce: We made a mistake and should have kept him

Clark: We did try to keep him around BUT he wanted to be a starter and we couldn't gauranty that.....I liked him as a player but he did struggle in coverage and there may be things on fil that fans couldn't see....


While we let those guys go we have kept Rock; Samuels; Evans; Marshall; and Clemons over the past few seasons....It just seems that while the above mentioned list though of themselves as the core, Gibbs & Co. wanted to rebuild that core and culture and these gusy were part of the old culture of losing any making excuses for losing....

[floydfurillo]

Actually it's 2 playoff appearances.

And to your other point, so what? Look at the players we've brought in through FA. Players like Marcus Washington, Santana Moss, Shawn Springs, Cornelius Griffin have all been studs for us. Who cares if we didn't draft them? Who cares how you get the players, as long as they produce on the field.

Oh, and last time I checked Jon Jansen, Lemar Marshall, and Mike Sellars all began their career with the Redskins,

Production on the field should translate to wins on the record and playoff appearances. I said since 1999 to mean not including. Jansen was drafted in 1999. Marshall was a FA pickup from Tampa Bay and Sellars was an undrafted FA who played great for us (in my opinion) and was released during one of our many coaching changes when the H-Back/Tight End role was deamed not necessary. So I stand by draft my numbers.

I was responding to someone who used the Patriots in response to my initial post. I am assuming that was because of the recent years playoff/superbowl success. Well a secret to that success has been in managements success in the draft and their ability to RETAIN those people.

[Maggio]

I think our inability to sign "skins for life" in the past has more to do with our instability at head coach more than anything else. This will be Gibbs third year as head coach, the last time we could say that was when Norval was here in 2000. Think about, its been six years of changing coaches, schemes, and personnel. Each coach has a different kind of player that works for him, so their is always going to be a mass exodus of old regime players and the new guys.


For example, the only players from the spurrier era are Marshall, Wynn, Betts, Jansen, Samuels, Thomas, Dock, and Albright. We had a serious talent problem with Spurrier's scheme that seemed fit to employ college stars. So, the exodus began again with Gibbs only really finally slowing down till this year (Ramsey, Arrington, Jacobs).

Now, this should be about the time we have Gibbs players at all positions. It takes time and from here on out, expectations about who is a skin for life should be a little higher since this team has his imprint all over it. In turn, this is the year that most coaches either break out (Superbowl) or everyone realizes it might not work out. Also, we are almost to the point of having very few needs and just ready to develop and upgrade.

I think the draft will play a bigger from here on out, especially if we win a lot this year. Then we can sign players for cheaper contracts, those "play for a winner deals". Remember, in Bellichek's first year with the Pats he signed 22 mid to low end free agents to build the core of his team, then they started building through the draft.

[cfcrider]

Uhm... I don't need a history lesson, especially since you're missing the point. We're talking about the current Skins regime (font office included) and whether it will house a Skin for life. We have a good regime now that Joe/Al/Gregg are in place, which is perhaps on equal par with the Patriots.

What happened in the past is of no relevance now because good old Dan and Vinny have changed their ways about running a team. We all know that they've left player evaluation to the expert coaching staff.


A team with one playoff appearance since since 1999 has released players for the benefit of the team?

The number of current starters drafted by the Patriots since 2000 - 14

The number of current starters drafted by the Redskins since 2000 - 5 (Cooley, Dockery, Samuels,Rogers, Taylor) - the lowest number among all the teams in the NFL

The next lower number is the Vikings, Bucs and Dolphins with 7 each.

[onedrop]

I have been reading in the other threads all this crap against Lavar for saying he wanted to be a "Skin for Life". What player will we ever have going forward that will be a Skin for Life. That is a two-way committment between the player and the front office. Under the Dan Snyder regime of multiple coaching staffs, glamorous free-agent signings instead of building thru the draft and back-loaded contracts where we have to release players instead of paying them in the later years of the contract when the real money kicks in, there will never be another Skin for Life. Jon Jansen is the longest tenured Redskin followed by Chris Samuels and I guarantee, neither of them will finish their careers with the Redskins. The coaches and front office talk out of both sides of their mouths too. I remember last year both Greg Williams and Joe Gibbs singing the praises of Ryan Clark and how he was their type of Redskin. Smart, hard-worker, did what was asked of him, made plays etc, etc. and we went out and signed another big-time free-agent to replace him. Its a two-way street.


it isnt just our FO. its what free agency has done to the game. a team can no longer build through the draft because once a player proves themself their value goes up and they eventually sign with another team for more money. if a team, like us, signs guys that have been in the league a few years they are more likely to keep them for the remainder of their carreers or at least during their peak seasons. thereby getting the most value.

and what are coaches supposed to do, bash their players?

[budski]

Plain and simple it is all about the money, not the dedication to the team anymore.
There are a few exceptions, but the norm is more money.
None us have any ideal exactly how much money these players take home each year nor do we know exactly how much each team has. Its all business and the business is entertainment.

[Upstate Gmen]

When measuring the integrity and commitment of an nfl organization the standard has to be taken from the top, or its owner. Im not bashing the skins...but snyder does not perticularly display the kind of class you want as your nfl owner!

[onedrop]

When measuring the integrity and commitment of an nfl organization the standard has to be taken from the top, or its owner. Im not bashing the skins...but snyder does not perticularly display the kind of class you want as your nfl owner!

keep bashing our team and owner. it will only help shorten your stay here. so, by all means keep it up.

but for arguments sake. please explain how Dan Snyders class is in question.

[Upstate Gmen]

keep bashing our team and owner. it will only help shorten your stay here. so, by all means keep it up.

but for arguments sake. please explain how Dan Snyders class is in question.

Do you guys have to pay to use the bathrooms at FedEx yet? Yes my stay is most likely shortened, Ive accepted it, but thats the beauty of multiple emails.

[H-O-G]

I really hope Chris Samuels and Jon Jansen are Redskins for life.

[onedrop]

Do you guys have to pay to use the bathrooms at FedEx yet? Yes my stay is most likely shortened, Ive accepted it, but thats the beauty of multiple emails.

your "joke" doesnt answer the question. and now i think you are insulting our mods by insinuating that you could outsmart them if you were banned?

you really are a gnats fan arent you?

[Maggio]

Plain and simple it is all about the money, not the dedication to the team anymore.
There are a few exceptions, but the norm is more money.
None us have any ideal exactly how much money these players take home each year nor do we know exactly how much each team has. Its all business and the business is entertainment.

I agree its all about the money. I think the only exception is if you have a quality organization and a winning one, sometimes you can get a discount on a player. In the end though, its about the money, which is good for us as we know how to shell it out upfront.

[Upstate Gmen]

your "joke" doesnt answer the question. and now i think you are insulting our mods by insinuating that you could outsmart them if you were banned?

you really are a gnats fan arent you?

Yes I am a Giants fan and no I am not trying to "outsmart" your mods...I am just merely trying to have a productive and civilised conversation about how greedy your owner is and how the whole redskin organization from top to bottom is completely lost while your quarterback is on his last legs! I really am sorry if you find this offensive or insulting.:D

Gmen

[floydfurillo]

Uhm... I don't need a history lesson, especially since you're missing the point. We're talking about the current Skins regime (font office included) and whether it will house a Skin for life. We have a good regime now that Joe/Al/Gregg are in place, which is perhaps on equal par with the Patriots.

What happened in the past is of no relevance now because good old Dan and Vinny have changed their ways about running a team. We all know that they've left player evaluation to the expert coaching staff.

What happened in the past with this management team (current coaching staff not included) is exactly why today we dont have a first round draft pick, why we don't have the money to re-sign players identified as "core Redskins", why we have to ask current players to restructure their contracts multiple times to get under the salary cap,. And to me the signing of Archuleta (making him one of if not the highest paid safety in the league) is more of the same that we have seen from Danny/Vinny.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

We root for jerseys now, not players.

[Upstate Gmen]

What happened in the past with this management team (current coaching staff not included) is exactly why today we dont have a first round draft pick, why we don't have the money to re-sign players identified as "core Redskins", why we have to ask current players to restructure their contracts multiple times to get under the salary cap,. And to me the signing of Archuleta (making him one of if not the highest paid safety in the league) is more of the same that we have seen from Danny/Vinny.

Hey drop I wouldn'y be so concerned with me when it looks like you got some disagreement in your camp. floyd does have a point.

[onedrop]

Yes I am a Giants fan and no I am not trying to "outsmart" your mods...I am just merely trying to have a productive and civilised conversation about how greedy your owner is and how the whole redskin organization from top to bottom is completely lost while your quarterback is on his last legs! I really am sorry if you find this offensive or insulting.:D

Gmen


if you were genuinely trying to be civilised you would quit with the insults and talk football. and you would answer my question as to your disparaging remarks concerning Dan Snyder, and now our complete organization.

so, once again, how is Dans class in question?

and...

why is our franchise "completely lost"?

we went further than you did last year.

[Upstate Gmen]

if you were genuinely trying to be civilised you would quit with the insults and talk football. and you would answer my question as to your disparaging remarks concerning Dan Snyder, and now our complete organization.

so, once again, how is Dans class in question?

and...

why is our franchise "completely lost"?

we went further than you did last year.

I guess floyd kind of answered the question for me.

[onedrop]

I guess floyd kind of answered the question for me.


sorry pal, doesnt work that way. YOU made some statements, now back them up. dont piggyback on someone elses opinion. you have been trolling all day, now is your chance to be a man and answer to the things you have thrown out.or is that all you gnats fans are good for? throwing out half assed opinions and conjecture but not having the brain power to back it up. then using the intelligence of a Skins fan to do it for you.


W E A K

[Upstate Gmen]

Does anybody know anything about this whole tree conspiracy thing with Snyder? He cut down 10 acres of old maples without permission so he could see the river or something? Anybody heard any of this?

[BLEED-B&G]

Lavar was given the option to stay and still broke out, how can you say you will do whatever it takes to stay then turn right around and do whatever it takes to leave?

[Upstate Gmen]

Hey drop you are my huckleberry. I would guess that you are the exact reason why us so called "trolls' even exist... maybe for somebody to bite!

[onedrop]

Hey drop you are my huckleberry. I would guess that you are the exact reason why us so called "trolls' even exist... maybe for somebody to bite!

uh yeah, bite me. clown.

[Upstate Gmen]

uh yeah, bite me. clown.

Cmon drop...those kind of statements could get you banned... your making this personal.:D

[thesubmittedone]

:troll:

Definitely a clown. Tom, aren't you embarassed by this guy?

[Heavy Jumbo]

I am just merely trying to have a productive and civilised conversation about how greedy your owner is and how the whole redskin organization from top to bottom is completely lost while your quarterback is on his last legs! I really am sorry if you find this offensive or insulting.:D


Hmmm...Our WHOLE organization is completely lost? We have a hall of fame coach with two of the best coordinators in the game. Seems like we did a pretty good job of improving ourselves last year by getting to the playoffs and then actually WINNING a playoff game. Yeah, we have NO idea what's going on :rolleyes:

Our QB may be on his last leg, but that's why we drafted a guy to reaplce him.

[Upstate Gmen]

Fair enough... and now even though I know drop wants me to stay, i must leave, until then, one more time real loud....LETS GO BIG BLUE

[floydfurillo]

Upstate_Gmen,

OneDrop is right. I never questioned Snyder's class..so please don't use my response as a basis for yours. I am a Redskins fan for life but that doesn't me I blindly support them. When I see mistakes that I think that they have made and will point them out and offer them for honest and open debate.

[onedrop]

Cmon drop...those kind of statements could get you banned... your making this personal.:D


hey you said you existed to bite me. at least youre out of the closet now.

if you arent going to answer the reasonable questions ive asked do not bother responding. this thread is about our FO. you have made insults and foolish statements if you lack the IQ to back them up fine just say so.

[Jumbo]

When measuring the integrity and commitment of an nfl organization the standard has to be taken from the top, or its owner. Im not bashing the skins...but snyder does not perticularly display the kind of class you want as your nfl owner!


Do you guys have to pay to use the bathrooms at FedEx yet? Yes my stay is most likely shortened, Ive accepted it, but thats the beauty of multiple emails.


Yes I am a Giants fan and no I am not trying to "outsmart" your mods...I am just merely trying to have a productive and civilised conversation about how greedy your owner is and how the whole redskin organization from top to bottom is completely lost while your quarterback is on his last legs! I really am sorry if you find this offensive or insulting.:D

Gmen


Does anybody know anything about this whole tree conspiracy thing with Snyder? He cut down 10 acres of old maples without permission so he could see the river or something? Anybody heard any of this?


Hey drop you are my huckleberry. I would guess that you are the exact reason why us so called "trolls' even exist... maybe for somebody to bite!

Well then, let the games begin. :)

:ciao:

[Gilgamesh]

I don't think this happens with any players in the league any more. It's very rare, in any case. What does it matter?

[ouvan59]

In a salary cap ruled NFL there are no "(fill in the blank) for Life" unless the player wants there to be. Just like in corporate America sometimes you have to go someplace else to get top dollar. Each of the big name players that have left in the last few years has left for different reasons. This isn't a blanket that you can throw over this organization as being mismanaged. Heck the Patriots and Steelers lose Patriots and Steelers for Life every year.

Stephen Davis -- Didn't fit SS offense. Getting up there in years and starting to get consistently injured. Had one good year after he left.

Champ Bailey -- Wanted to play elsewhere even though Skins offered him more than fair value.

Fred Smoot -- Skins offered him fair contract in line with everyone else they had signed since JG came back. He went for top dollar.

Antonio Pierce -- Skins offered him fair contract in line with everyone else they had signed since JG came back. He went for top dollar.

Lavar Arrington -- Obvious rift between player and coaches.

Ryan Clark -- Skins didn't see him as a starter and he wanted to start.1

The biggest factor in all of the players is that only Clark had been brought in by this staff. Nearly every single time an NFL team changes it's head coach there is a purge in varying degrees. Take a look at Dallas' roster from 2002 and now.

[Jumbo]

This "skins for life” deal is a fan thing, it's a Lavar thing, it’s not something likely to be said any FO in this day and age.

floyd, your compare and contrast simply doesn't work. There’s no contradiction between lauding a guys efforts or performance, and yet decide that acquiescing to “give me this size raise or I’ll leave” isn’t in your organization’s best interests. I had to do that more than once as an employer. Telling a guy I loved his work and meaning it, still had to be balanced against what others in my employ were being compensated and the available talent to replace him if necessary, when he brought in a demand and then rejected negotiations that fell short of his wants.

What would be a more accurate comparison, floyd, is if Gibbs or GW said "we love Clark, he plays his heart out for us" followed by "we don't understand what Clark's doing out here", and then variations on that theme. That would be comparable to things Lavar said.

Then, if after a number of such directly contradictory remarks, if after one spectacular example of the same right before Clark’s playing in a play-off game, Gibbs & GW claimed they were “taken out of context” and also said "we will do whatever it takes to keep Clark, we would rather see him retire a Redskin than play for any other team" and then gave him a severance bonus to leave after the season, THAT would be comparable.

As for skinzstar's list, there are facts in play in all those cases that seem to need to be pointed out regularly. But I and other have done that plenty, previously. Those examples do not make the case. Besides, everyone on that list departed voluntarily, emphasizing their own interest over the team. They wanted out, or they wanted more then they were deemed worth, compliments notwithstanding. Blaming the team for being as pragmatic as the players is silly.

You can argue the team was wrong to let that talent go instead of paying what they asked, strategically speaking, but to project the FO behaved unethically is going back to silly. After all the Lavar gyrations about his "missing money" who is being held accountable by the investigation? Answer: Lavar's agents (who Lavar is zealously defending), not the Redskins FO.

Some guys like where they are and who they work with enough that they don’t desire to find a new home to make about the same, or 15% more (a new love can come so cheap) money. Others do go when they think they can be a happier, bigger, better-paid cog somewhere else and sometimes they’re right. That is simply the NFL.

The FO has obviously done things worthy of criticism in the past. Gibbs himself said that letting AP go may have been an error, right after the fact. The deals Smoot & AP received were not that far apart for what they were offered here, so they made their choice, too. The team didn’t kick any of these guys to the curb which is often the tone presented. Silly silly silly.

I loved AP until he ran his mouth silly (and is still going), and Champ was a great player but I am soooo happy with that trade and it seems to have pleased everybody involved so why does that even still get brought up? It’s now stupid to do so. Clark was given his stage and opportunity here and is making the best of it on a SB champ. Bravo! He’s the one I genuinely wish well. That’s how you want it to go. Unless, of course, you perform at such a level your team isn’t willing to live without you, or they don’t see a way to upgrade. Overall I like our roster now better than before. But most of this personnel change stuff is just typical NFL that gets magnified by emotional, and not thoughtful, reactions.

[cfcrider]

You're still way off topic here... the subject is a Skin for Life and whether or not it's possible with the current front office/coaching staff.

We all know the problems of the past and their repurcussions on the salary This is OLD news. There is a minimum of 20% annual personnel change for every team, making the chances of a Skin for Life very remote.

Re Adam Archuletta - sounds like you disagree with decisions Gregg and his DB staff make. Obviously they wanted him bad enough for Dan/Vinny to create a big contract. Dan/Vinny know little about football, so they surely acted on recommendations from the coaches. Let's not forget one thing here, unless Adam's stats are in the top 5 of the league, he'll never get the money he's scheduled to make down the road. So you label him the highest paid safety ever, but will that be true in 3 years? I doubt it.



What happened in the past with this management team (current coaching staff not included) is exactly why today we dont have a first round draft pick, why we don't have the money to re-sign players identified as "core Redskins", why we have to ask current players to restructure their contracts multiple times to get under the salary cap,. And to me the signing of Archuleta (making him one of if not the highest paid safety in the league) is more of the same that we have seen from Danny/Vinny.

[willyt]

The days of players becoming lifers on one team are numbered. Face it It's about the money for th majority of players.

[Cheers, Beers and Mountaineers]

The only one true "Skin for Life" is Joe Gibbs himself, but he isnt even a player. Its been already stated but I'l say it again, with free agency no one player will stick with one team for his entire career. And the players who look to loyalty more than money is a dead breed. Darrell Green was the only player I know of that turned down more money to stay with his then current team. (and I'm eternally gratefull for him doing that)

[Butz65]

Actually it's 2 playoff appearances.

And to your other point, so what? Look at the players we've brought in through FA. Players like Marcus Washington, Santana Moss, Shawn Springs, Cornelius Griffin have all been studs for us. Who cares if we didn't draft them? Who cares how you get the players, as long as they produce on the field.

Oh, and last time I checked Jon Jansen, Lemar Marshall, and Mike Sellars all began their career with the Redskins,

:applause: :applause: :applause: I completely agree. which of the "core" Redskins would have made a difference anyway? We had Pierce and Lavar on the same field a couple of seasons ago - how many playoff wins did that net? How many Super Bowl rings can Smoot or Bailey sport? Ryan Clark was a nice player who got a lot of hype for a couple of big plays - I hope he does well in Pittsburgh but doubt we'll really miss him. Besides, it doesn't make sense to shoot the current FO for mistakes of their predecessors. The new FO has accomplished as much in the last two seasons as the ones in the prior 10 combined.

The real secret to success in the NFL is great coaching and consistency at the top. Most teams are balanced in terms of talent. Each has a few Superstars, each team has some weaknesses and all have depth issues. Coaches make the true difference. This division is a case-in-point. The Eagles romped over the Campos, Spurriers, Turners, Fassels of coaching past. Now that Gibbs, Coughlin and Parcells have their footing, Reid and the Eagles are trying to play catch-up.

[Butz65]

What happened in the past with this management team (current coaching staff not included) is exactly why today we dont have a first round draft pick, why we don't have the money to re-sign players identified as "core Redskins", why we have to ask current players to restructure their contracts multiple times to get under the salary cap,. And to me the signing of Archuleta (making him one of if not the highest paid safety in the league) is more of the same that we have seen from Danny/Vinny.

You must have been one of those fans who derided the organization for trading Coles to the Jets for Moss prior to last season. Would you give Portis back to have Champ on the field? There's no such thing as a core-"any NFL team" player anymore. The players follow the cash and management tries to balance needs against the cap. That's life in the NFL.

[smitty71]

Monk is considered a skin for life, right? He didn't finish with them though. Just like Dallas considers Emmitt a Cowboy for life.

[Butz65]

Monk is considered a skin for life, right? He didn't finish with them though. Just like Dallas considers Emmitt a Cowboy for life.

Right - how many people consider Montana a Chief? Rice as a Raider? Some guys simply can't see the writing on the wall (or give up that last pay check). By the way, technically, Monk did end his career as a Redskin (after signing one of those "on paper only" contracts at the very end.

[mcarey032]

Remember if TO can't feed his family how can you expect Lavar to do the same? JK! I think that Lavar is a good talent, I think that there were somethings like him learning to be disciplined enough to play his position. I was disappointed when he said he was going to be a redskin for life and then later reneged on the deal. I get the fact that the ownership has to lie to the players and set up deals that never come to complete fruition, but do the players have to now lie to the fans and say that they will be here or they will retire? I just thought that it was refreshing to hear that type of talk coming from a player in this day in age when the likelyhood the fans will see a player retire in the same uniform he started in and finishes in has become extinct.

The way it is setup today there are no more Darrell Greens and Monte Coleman's of the world. We just have to more or less view it like college football fans view it. You get a great team together for a short run and that is it. Sorry Lavar that you weren't able to hold up to your word. The next time a player says he is going to be here or retire, just ask him will his retire promise be backloaded and have loophole clauses in his promise?

[JuiceMan_74]

I Hope Lavar Has A Great Season Excpt When He Plays Us..........

Gone Be Hard To See Lavar In Another Unifrom