Bill Parcells: Phoning it in?

[Birdlives]

My contention is that Bill is collecting a paycheck and not much more. He doesn't seem to be concerned with developing players much less drafting them to suit his needs. He just doesn't seem to be the Bill Parcells of old. Firey, competitive, needing and wanting control. Does anybody else see this?

[909997]

yea hes knows COWBOYS SUCK!!!:dallasuck

[DWinzit]

This is his final season. He is ready to follow the horses and golf. His new summer home on a golf course in Saratoga NY should be completed shortly. His style has always been to build a team up and bail on them.

[tr1]

Does anyone think BP signed TO? It was Jerrah...and Bill can't like that.

[Warhead36]

I agree about not seeming like he cares. He doesn't really seem fired up at all. Even at the end of last season, after the shallacking we gave his Boys he seemed like he just stopped caring. I don't know about the paycheck collecting though. I think he still wants to win, or at the least he doesn't want to go out like he did last year.

But I disagree about the team building. He's instilled his 3-4 D and has drafted players to fit it nicely.

[RiggoReincarnated]

While I agree the TO signing was purely Jerry, I do think Parcells wants it still. He just had a demoralizing end to last season at the hands of the Redskins.


He's molding that 3-4 defense into something nasty that will be good for a long time. He's a masterful defensive coach and a suspect linebacking corps has been enhanced with the additions of Carpenter and Ayodele.

[jrockster21]

He's molding that 3-4 defense into something nasty that will be good for a long time. He's a masterful defensive coach and a suspect linebacking corps has been enhanced with the additions of Carpenter and Ayodele.


Carpenter is a rookie, who some feel was way overrated. Ayodele was good in Jacksonville, but they let him go for not too much money...he couldn't have been that great; Jax has tons of cap room to match any offers, but they didn't. That has to say something about him.

I'm starting to prepare a new theory about RR -- all the retarded threads are a way to make Redskins fans look bad...he's a Cowturd fan in disguise. I mean, the only time something half-way intelligent and football-related comes out of his mouth is when he's talking about the Cowgirls...coincidence? I think not!

Not to mention he defends them wehenver he gets the chance...

[Barney B]

I'm starting to prepare a new theory about RR -- all the retarded threads are a way to make Redskins fans look bad...he's a Cowturd fan in disguise. I mean, the only time something half-way intelligent and football-related comes out of his mouth is when he's talking about the Cowgirls...coincidence? I think not!

Not to mention he defends them wehenver he gets the chance...

Interesting theory. Even if it's not true, it's insightful as hell. :D

[RiggoReincarnated]

Carpenter is a rookie, who some feel was way overrated. Ayodele was good in Jacksonville, but they let him go for not too much money...he couldn't have been that great; Jax has tons of cap room to match any offers, but they didn't. That has to say something about him.

I'm starting to prepare a new theory about RR -- all the retarded threads are a way to make Redskins fans look bad...he's a Cowturd fan in disguise. I mean, the only time something half-way intelligent and football-related comes out of his mouth is when he's talking about the Cowgirls...coincidence? I think not!

Not to mention he defends them wehenver he gets the chance...

You're full of **** if that's what you think. If you were to see me screaming at a game, that would shut you up really quick.

I simply believe in the adage "keep your friends close and your enemies closer".

Not looking at the opposition objectively is only going to do us a disservice in the long run.

I think you should apologize for what you said, that was uncalled for.

[Who Del]

You're full of **** if that's what you think.

I simply believe in the adage "keep your friends close and your enemies closer".

Not looking at the opposition objectively is only going to do us a disservice in the long run.

I think you should apologize for what you said, that was uncalled for.

Lets get together for a drink RR. We can discuss the Eagles.

[RiggoReincarnated]

Lets get together for a drink RR. We can discuss the Eagles.

You going to the game at Fed Ex? I love to gauge opposing teams fans before and after a game.

[Who Del]

Yeah I'll be at the Iggles game. I'll be at the ES tailgate as well. :)

[RiggoReincarnated]

Yeah I'll be at the Iggles game. I'll be at the ES tailgate as well. :)

Should be fun...I expect a playoff atmosphere for that game if both teams play to potential.

[jrockster21]

You're full of **** if that's what you think. If you were to see me screaming at a game, that would shut you up really quick.

I simply believe in the adage "keep your friends close and your enemies closer".

Not looking at the opposition objectively is only going to do us a disservice in the long run.

I think you should apologize for what you said, that was uncalled for.


I don't know...you do seem to defend the Cowgirls quite a bit. There's a difference between looking at them objectively and sweating their ball sacks. You're dangerously close to the latter.

Not to mention, the irony in the fact that Ken said "Newman was arguably the best CB in the league last season," and you're over here talking about objectivity. :laugh:

[RiggoReincarnated]

I don't know...you do seem to defend the Cowgirls quite a bit. There's a difference between looking at them objectively and sweating their ball sacks. You're dangerously close to the latter.

If they weren't any good, beating them wouldn't be as much fun.

I'm inclined not to take anything on a Bill Parcells coached team for granted and have painful memories of what his 3-4 presented when with the Giants. I respect their defense but don't think the addition of TO is going to fix their problems on offense.

I don't think them having TO last year would have won them the game at Fed Ex.

Btw, I never agreed with Ken on Newman about him being arguably the best, I just said that he's better (right now)..then either of our corners are in man to man coverage. But we have Sean Taylor, and they don't, so that evens out.

[HeHateMe]

My contention is that Bill is collecting a paycheck and not much more. He doesn't seem to be concerned with developing players much less drafting them to suit his needs. He just doesn't seem to be the Bill Parcells of old. Firey, competitive, needing and wanting control. Does anybody else see this?

In a word, no.

[bubba9497]

In a word, no.


you hope

[DWinzit]

But I disagree about the team building. He's instilled his 3-4 D and has drafted players to fit it nicely.
I agree on D. On Offense he has Bledsoe, TO and Jones. Doesn't exactly scare. He installed a 3-4 with the giants and dumped them with Ray Handley (My alltime favorite coach:laugh: ). He did the same with the patriots and jets. Each team he has brought their expectations high and dumped them! The patriots were lucky to get Belichek to come in and keep the 3-4 going. This will be his last season.

[HeHateMe]

you hope

Actually, its you that's hoping.

I know its just hate and envy.

Been dealing with it for a while.

[bubba9497]

Actually, its you that's hoping.

I know its just hate and envy.

Been dealing with it for a while.



sure it is... :laugh:

only one flaw in your little rhetoric, you have to actually have something to be envious of first :rolleyes:

[ArmchairRedskin]

If by phoning it in you mean ordering pizza and waiting for his contract to expire, then yeah, I agree.

[jrockster21]

Actually, its you that's hoping.

I know its just hate and envy.

Been dealing with it for a while.


Yeah....the fans of the team coached by JOE FREAKIN' GIBBS are jealous of the Tuna. Keep dreaming, bro. :laugh:

[tr1]

Actually, its you that's hoping.

I know its just hate and envy.

Been dealing with it for a while.


BP is going through the motions...

If you think rookies are the answer, then you're sadly mistaken. Rookies are as likely to cost you as to help you...especially in a complicated scheme.

But keep hoping...

[kingfish50]

Actually, its you that's hoping.

I know its just hate and envy.

Been dealing with it for a while.
Envy? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :dallasuck

[Ken]

I don't know...you do seem to defend the Cowgirls quite a bit. There's a difference between looking at them objectively and sweating their ball sacks. You're dangerously close to the latter.

Not to mention, the irony in the fact that Ken said "Newman was arguably the best CB in the league last season," and you're over here talking about objectivity. :laugh:
jrockster,
Ok, you obviously don't understand the term "arguably".


2 entries found for arguably.

ar·gu·a·ble ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ärgy--bl)
adj.
1. Open to argument: an arguable question, still unresolved.

2.That can be argued plausibly; defensible in argument: three arguable points of law.



My arguement is this:

Last year Newman was thrown at 66 times and allowed 28 completions (42.4 percent) for 308 yards and no (0) touchdowns. He intercepted two of those, deflected one to Dat Nguyen for an interception and had another interception off a pass tipped by Bradie James. The Cowboys' coaches credit him with 15 passes deflected, while NFL.com says he has 17.



Show me someone who was as dominant.


But i am the stupid one. :doh:

[WeownU]

Ayodele was good in Jacksonville, but they let him go for not too much money...he couldn't have been that great; Jax has tons of cap room to match any offers, but they didn't. That has to say something about him.



Thats the stupidest logic I'ver heard. If thats true for Ayodele, .........

Then ARE is no good, cause the steelers could have kept him
Then Arch is no good. The Rams defense sucks, but they let him go???
Then Lloyd is no good. 49ers offense is HORRID, but they gave up their "best" wideout for a number 3 pick???? Makes no sense

[WeownU]

My contention is that Bill is collecting a paycheck and not much more. He doesn't seem to be concerned with developing players much less drafting them to suit his needs. He just doesn't seem to be the Bill Parcells of old. Firey, competitive, needing and wanting control. Does anybody else see this?

Your contention would be wrong. If you want to blast a coach for building for today and not the future, blast Gibbs, and whoever's running your draft room. You trade away picks like its candy. How does that help develop players?

Your "contention" is ridiculous. We are all dumber for having read it.

[Birdlives]

Your contention would be wrong. If you want to blast a coach for building for today and not the future, blast Gibbs, and whoever's running your draft room. You trade away picks like its candy. How does that help develop players?

Your "contention" is ridiculous. We are all dumber for having read it.

Instead of being your usual jerky self maybe you should have some sort of reasoning or rationale for why you think this instead of base insults and no logic. Or are you as bitter in real life as you appear in most threads. You are the king of, "I dont agree with you so you are wrong", when as far as I've seen 9 out of every 10 arguments you engage in end up with you being owned.:silly:

Hey, you don't have to agree with me, but maybe you should try discussion instead of insult to prove your case. Sorry, but Parcells came to the cowboys right after a divorce, probably needing money. On the sidelines he isn't nearly the firey guy he once was. Installing the 3-4 is something he does at every stop he makes. I don't think him having complete control of the coaching staff means he is dedicated to winning with the cowboys. At every other stop he's wanted total control of all aspects of the team. It's why he left the Pats, and what he demanded with the Jets. The cowboys personell moves seem to very much have JJ's fingerprints on them, not BP's. It's a reasonable contention.

As for Gibbs and the Redskins (as if I didn't know you would bring them up), they may trade away picks, but they bring in young players in FA to mold into their philosophy. That's not building just for today, that's just a different way of building for now and in the future. It allows the team to get proven players instead of iffy maybes, as most draft picks tend to be.

[WeownU]

Instead of being your usual jerky self maybe you should have some sort of reasoning or rationale for why you think this instead of base insults and no logic.


So this is your ide of reasoning or rationale??? Parcells is only coaching for a paycheck? What in the world do you have to backup that sort of reasoning? Because he got a divorce? You don't know how much he's got in the bank. 20 bucks or 20 million. But to imply he only does it for a paycheck is silly. You gave no insight whatsoever as to your reasoning, yet you blast me for doing the same? Get real.




He doesn't seem to be concerned with developing players much less drafting them to suit his needs. He just doesn't seem to be the Bill Parcells of old. Firey, competitive, needing and wanting control.

Not concerned with develping new players??? What are you talking about? Last year was a terrific draft, and there are several promising guys from this years draft too. Not developing players??? Where do you get this from? You have shown no such facts at all, you're just spewing out garbage.

If Parcells was trading away draft pick that could help this year or two only, then I'd agree with you, but he has done no such thing. In fact, we've traded down in the draft to obtain more young talent to "develop".

You're argument was ridiculous, and it was only started to try to blast parcells, pure and simple and you know it.

[Birdlives]

So this is your ide of reasoning or rationale??? Parcells is only coaching for a paycheck? What in the world do you have to backup that sort of reasoning? Because he got a divorce? You don't know how much he's got in the bank. 20 bucks or 20 million. But to imply he only does it for a paycheck is silly. You gave no insight whatsoever as to your reasoning, yet you blast me for doing the same? Get real.

Not concerned with develping new players??? What are you talking about? Last year was a terrific draft, and there are several promising guys from this years draft too. Not developing players??? Where do you get this from? You have shown no such facts at all, you're just spewing out garbage.

If Parcells was trading away draft pick that could help this year or two only, then I'd agree with you, but he has done no such thing. In fact, we've traded down in the draft to obtain more young talent to "develop".

You're argument was ridiculous, and it was only started to try to blast parcells, pure and simple and you know it.

Parcells isn't running the front office so what you've said doesn't make any sense. You pulled points from my contention and failed to address the whole statement. That doesn't win you arguments, sorry. JJ is certainly going to keep drafting young talent, I never said he didn't consider the cowboys future. Looking into the recent past he hasn't exactly won GM of the year awards though. Some of my contentions are just that, contentions I never stated them as facts, just my own observations. If you bothered to understand or comprehend the english language you might see that, but all you are interested in is attacking people.

Last year was a terrific draft? Ware, that's it. How many of the other guys have made a marked difference in that team? This year's draft? How about a single O-Line player to help a team that gave up 49 sacks last year? Just because you say it, doesn't make it true. Signing a guy like Owens implys a desire to win now. Not one person in this forum or any other expects Parcells to coach in 2007. I would think that JJ's window of opportunity is closing fast from that perspective. He went out and got guys that will help them win now, and guys they can plug into the 3-4 quickly. No O-Line help, No future QB. They signed a bunch of aging free agents. That stinks of a win this year team philosophy.

[WeownU]

Parcells isn't running the front office so what you've said doesn't make any sense. You pulled points from my contention and failed to address the whole statement. That doesn't win you arguments, sorry. JJ is certainly going to keep drafting young talent, I never said he didn't consider the cowboys future. Looking into the recent past he hasn't exactly won GM of the year awards though. Some of my contentions are just that, contentions I never stated them as facts, just my own observations. If you bothered to understand or comprehend the english language you might see that, but all you are interested in is attacking people.

So now your backpeddling because you realize you have no basis whatsoever in spewing that garbage about Parcells. Thank you.





Last year was a terrific draft? Ware, that's it. How many of the other guys have made a marked difference in that team? This year's draft? How about a single O-Line player to help a team that gave up 49 sacks last year? Just because you say it, doesn't make it true. Signing a guy like Owens implys a desire to win now. Not one person in this forum or any other expects Parcells to coach in 2007. I would think that JJ's window of opportunity is closing fast from that perspective. He went out and got guys that will help them win now, and guys they can plug into the 3-4 quickly. No O-Line help, No future QB. They signed a bunch of aging free agents. That stinks of a win this year team philosophy.

Ware, Canty, Barber, Spears, Burnett??????? You have no knowledge of our team whatsoever.....admit it.

Our Oline isn't half as bad as you guys make it out to be. We were fine before the injury bug hit. Top 5 offense. In the monday nighter the skins didn't get ONE KNOCKDOWN. NOT ONE. You get injuries, you lose. Simple as that. But under your theory, we should just "blow up" the Oline and draft new guys because we had injuries? Thats ridiculous.

Everyteam wants to win now, but most teams dont' do it at the expese of thier draft picks and their future. Unlike the redskins.

All this concern about Parcells and how long he will coach is ridiculous. He just signed a contract extension. Noboby knows how long he will coach. No more than we know how long Gibbs will coach. You think Gibbs is there longterm??? Of course not. He was brought in to reestablish a shred of credibility your owner and your team had. You team was a joke before he got there. A joke. I'd be shocked if he stayed there more than 2 more years. But your gonna blast Parcells?? Ridiculous.

The fact is, both our coaches will be gone in a few more years. The difference is our Owner has 3 rings before he brought in a legend like Parcells. Your owner had zero rings before he brought in a legend like Gibbs.

I like the cowboys chances better when both coaches go thier own way. Snyder has proved he can't manage that team without help.

[Birdlives]

So now your backpeddling because you realize you have no basis whatsoever in spewing that garbage about Parcells. Thank you.

Our Oline isn't half as bad as you guys make it out to be. We were fine before the injury bug hit. Top 5 offense.

I like the cowboys chances better when both coaches go thier own way. Snyder has proved he can't manage that team without help.


I love how you say things that have no basis in fact and pretend that I backpedalled. :laugh: Where did this occur? Like I already said, just because you say it doesn't make it true.

I never went back on what I said, not even once. :laugh:

The O-line argument has been rehashed a dozen times and every time you guys have to admit you are wrong. I'll say it very quickly and easliy, 49 sacks allowed.

JJ hasn't won didly squat since Jimmy Johnson left and you know it. I guess I can then say Jerry has proved he can't manage the cowboys without help.

Really, you make it too easy my man. :laugh:

[Birdlives]

Ware, Canty, Barber, Spears, Burnett??????? You have no knowledge of our team whatsoever.....admit it.

Like I said, Ware and that's it. Canty, Barber, Spears, Burnett? Really? Such important cogs, huh?

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Thanks for proving my point for me.

[Jskins_83]

I just cant wait for the response to this. But here it is...



Bill Parcells is an over-rated coach. There... I said it. Okay so he won a super bowl, which was how long ago now? The man has proven to not be loyal to any team. He has proven time and time again that he can make a bad team average and and average team mediocre. That is exactly what the Cowboys have been since he stepped in. They overachieved in his first year just to lose their only playoff game with him. Then the last 2 seasons have been spent doing exactly what a mediocre team does in January. Watch the playoffs from home.



So they got T.O. and Vanderjact. They also have an entire new LB core with several rookies looking at starting. They have a patchwork offensive line which has no continuity having not played together. And they have QB who has proven over and over that he is not able to handle a full NFL season without having mulitple rough patches. Add that up with a coach who seems to be able to get teams close to being good but not quite. And all that equals is another 9-7 or 8-8 season with no playoffs. And honestly looking at the cowboys schedule next year and when they are at home and when they are on the road. I personally see them as a 7-9 team.



Anyhow, I do agree with the old post about being objective when looking at the competion. Well... facts are fact. The 'boys have a team with no continuity, no offensive line, and a defense that will be trying to come into their own. They will have flashes next season I am sure. Hopefully none against us! But I just cant see them putting together a long winning streak, especially not with that schedule.

[moondog]

Your contention would be wrong. If you want to blast a coach for building for today and not the future, blast Gibbs, and whoever's running your draft room. You trade away picks like its candy. How does that help develop players?

Your "contention" is ridiculous. We are all dumber for having read it.

You couldn't be more wrong. Rogers and Campbell clearly are future leaders on offense and defense. Rogers showed a ton of progress last year on defense although he missed 4 games due to injury, and he had two games of starting experience in the playoffs.

Talking about the future, you can't say building our team through free agency is all about today. Randle El is 26, Lloyd's 24, and Carter is just recently 27. None of them have harldy any wear and tear and have been signed to contracts that will likely keep them here until the team has had plenty of time to groom new young players to assume their roles.

Moss, Portis, Cooley, and Taylor are all very young players that will dominate at their respective positions for years to come. Even some of the "veterans" on the team at LB (Washington and Marshall) and offensive line have had almost no injuries and the few on the o-line have been for the most part insignificant in terms of how they will recover and play throughout their careers (no knee ligaments torn or other career altering injuries, it was safe to say last year Jansen is fine from his achilles tear and Thomas will be fine).

All the stars and core players with the exception of maybe Brunell (he's old) and Archuleta and Griffin are either very young or saw little action early in their careers and therefore have the potential to play longer than most.

If anything, the Cowboys and Redskins infusion of talented young stars and a few older veterans is very similar, and due to your offense (Glenn, TO, Bledsoe, and o-line) the Redskins are more set for the future.

[skins4eva]

Like I said, Ware and that's it. Canty, Barber, Spears, Burnett? Really? Such important cogs, huh?

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Thanks for proving my point for me.

Let's check out the stats of the cowboys vaunted crop of young defenders:

Canty
TOT SOLO AST SACK STF STFY FF
36 24 12 2.5 5 8 1

Very mediocre, for a DE of that size...2.5 sacks? nothing special to me.

Marion Barber:
ATT YDS AVG LNG TD REC YDS AVG LNG TD FUM LST
2005 138 538 3.9 28 5 18 115 6.4 21 0 3
Only one good game, against AZ, where he rushed for 147yrds...check out the fumble category, 3 fumbles in 138 carries--that's steller.Oh, and no TD's.

Spears:
TOT SOLO AST SACK STF STFY FF BK INT YDS AVG LNG TD PD
2005 31 20 11 1.5 1 1 0 0 0
The other amazing Dallas DE--well, for a first rounder, I'd say there's not too much going on here. He missed 3 games in the middle of the season.

Burnett:
Who's he?

Ware:
2005 58 47 11 8.0 10 20 3 0 0

A very good rookie season, long and bright future ahead of him...but like Bird said, Ware's about it.

[WeownU]

JJ hasn't won didly squat since Jimmy Johnson left and you know it. I guess I can then say Jerry has proved he can't manage the cowboys without help.


Or you could say Jimmy hasn't done anything since he left Jerry Jones. His job in Miami was less than stellar.

[InTikiITrust]

As for Gibbs and the Redskins (as if I didn't know you would bring them up), they may trade away picks, but they bring in young players in FA to mold into their philosophy. That's not building just for today, that's just a different way of building for now and in the future. It allows the team to get proven players instead of iffy maybes, as most draft picks tend to be.

Yeah, but do proven players always do well on another team? There's no guarentee that ARE or Lloyd will have huge careers with the Skins.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

The fact is, both our coaches will be gone in a few more years. The difference is our Owner has 3 rings before he brought in a legend like Parcells. Your owner had zero rings before he brought in a legend like Gibbs.

I like the cowboys chances better when both coaches go thier own way. Snyder has proved he can't manage that team without help.

I like our chances better considering we'll still have one of the top offensive and defensive minds maintaining continuity with our team. But that's just me.

[Birdlives]

Or you could say Jimmy hasn't done anything since he left Jerry Jones. His job in Miami was less than stellar.

Or you could say both.

;)

[Birdlives]

Yeah, but do proven players always do well on another team? There's no guarentee that ARE or Lloyd will have huge careers with the Skins.

Absolutely true, that wasn't the original point of this thread really. However, to address your point, I think Joe Jack has done a pretty good job of picking the right guys to plug into this team. Lots of success stories really. Griffin, Washington, Springs, Portis, Brunell. He seems to know what he's doing. Then again, time will tell.

[skins4eva]

Yeah, but do proven players always do well on another team? There's no guarentee that ARE or Lloyd will have huge careers with the Skins.

No guarantee that Marcus Washington or Sean Springs would be studs, but they are...it's less of a gamble than the draft.

[InTikiITrust]

No guarantee that Marcus Washington or Sean Springs would be studs, but they are...it's less of a gamble than the draft.

It's also a more expensive gamble.

[Birdlives]

It's also a more expensive gamble.

Not a problem for the most profitable team in the NFL. The Redskins were supposed to be in cap hell for the past 10 years and it ain't happened yet. If you've got the cash...

[InTikiITrust]

Not a problem for the most profitable team in the NFL. The Redskins were supposed to be in cap hell for the past 10 years and it ain't happened yet. If you've got the cash...

True, but I honestly think one day, FAs will want more money up front from the Skins, espically if the Redskins cut a guy like Lloyd or ARE before his contract is up.

[skins4eva]

It's also a more expensive gamble.


More expensive because there is a higher probability of success. Look at what a first round bust will do to a team...that's arguably a much more dramatic costly gamble. That's money invested into a player who gives you absolutely no production.

People criticize Synder for spending the money allocated through the cap. Look at some of the more mediocre teams in the league, a lot of them have a ton of cap space but do nothing with it because their front offices aren't concerned with winning, they are concerned with profitability.

[Dirk Diggler]

Our Oline isn't half as bad as you guys make it out to be. We were fine before the injury bug hit. Top 5 offense. In the monday nighter the skins didn't get ONE KNOCKDOWN. NOT ONE. You get injuries, you lose. Simple as that. But under your theory, we should just "blow up" the Oline and draft new guys because we had injuries? Thats ridiculous.


I wouldn't necessarily use that first game as exhibit A as to why your Oline was so wonderful. Your team only scored 13 that game and the lone TD was on a gadget play. You also didn’t run the ball particularly well. I'm not going to say that we didn't rush the passer by design but in a way - that was kind of the case. I predicted before the game that your team was going to prepare for a game plan that wasn't coming - heavy blitzing – and that’s exactly what happened. Dallas kept 7, sometimes 8 in to block for a team that rushed only their 4 down linemen. That’s an advantage to the defense unless you have a QB with deadly accuracy. I can count on one hand the number of times that we blitzed that game. We had no sacks and I believe no turnovers but it was one of the best games Greg Williams ever coached as a Skin because he knew the Tuna was deathly scared of us throwing the kitchen sink at Bledsoe. The key to countering this strategy is to run the ball and your Oline failed in that regard.

[Birdlives]

True, but I honestly think one day, FAs will want more money up front from the Skins, espically if the Redskins cut a guy like Lloyd or ARE before his contract is up.

That's actually the beauty of the Snyder method. He gets young guys, gives them a little scratch up front, (ARE got 5 mil) and back loads the contract with roster bonuses. If they have to cut them, they aren't on the hook for as much as people think. As for FA's wanting more, people are already under the misconception that the Skins overpay everyone anyways. That, and the fact that every team has had a FA bust at one point or another, it just won't happen.

[skins4eva]

I wouldn't necessarily use that first game as exhibit A as to why your Oline was so wonderful. Your team only scored 13 that game and the lone TD was on a gadget play. You also didn’t run the ball particularly well. I'm not going to say that we didn't rush the passer by design but in a way - that was kind of the case. I predicted before the game that your team was going to prepare for a game plan that wasn't coming - heavy blitzing – and that’s exactly what happened. Dallas kept 7, sometimes 8 in to block for a team that rushed only their 4 down linemen. That’s an advantage to the defense unless you have a QB with deadly accuracy. I can count on one hand the number of times that we blitzed that game. We had no sacks and I believe no turnovers but it was one of the best games Greg Williams ever coached as a Skin because he knew the Tuna was deathly scared of us throwing the kitchen sink at Bledsoe. The key to countering this strategy is to run the ball and your Oline failed in that regard.

Dirk is absolutely correct here. I remember now that Bledsoe was quoted as saying he expected Wash. to blitz hard and we did just the opposite that day.

[THEHEREAFTER]

Carpenter is a rookie, who some feel was way overrated. Ayodele was good in Jacksonville, but they let him go for not too much money...he couldn't have been that great; Jax has tons of cap room to match any offers, but they didn't. That has to say something about him.

I'm starting to prepare a new theory about RR -- all the retarded threads are a way to make Redskins fans look bad...he's a Cowturd fan in disguise. I mean, the only time something half-way intelligent and football-related comes out of his mouth is when he's talking about the Cowgirls...coincidence? I think not!

Not to mention he defends them wehenver he gets the chance...

Objectivity just not welcomed here huh? :laugh:

[THEHEREAFTER]

Yeah....the fans of the team coached by JOE FREAKIN' GIBBS are jealous of the Tuna. Keep dreaming, bro. :laugh:

I could never be jealous of a coach with THAT freakin giggle... just off principle.. :laugh: :laugh:

[jrockster21]

Thats the stupidest logic I'ver heard. If thats true for Ayodele, .........

Then ARE is no good, cause the steelers could have kept him
Then Arch is no good. The Rams defense sucks, but they let him go???
Then Lloyd is no good. 49ers offense is HORRID, but they gave up their "best" wideout for a number 3 pick???? Makes no sense


:doh: Guess you've never heard of the salary cap? :doh: :doh: :doh:

Pitssburgh is only 3.2 million under the cap, and couldn't afford to keep ARE. They wanted to keep him badly; he was a fan favorite and if you recall, an integral part of the SB victory. But a smart guy like you would know that. :doh:

Lloyd wanted out of San Fran. And we TRADED FOR HIM. :doh:

St. Louis didn't match the offer we gave Arch, even though they had the cap room. His production has dropped his past few years, and he's been injured. However, I believe this was a scheme issue, as the Rams were playing him out of position (FS).

The Jaguars are a whopping $13.8 million under the cap, and could have easily matched or beaten Dallas' offer. He was a young player on a great defense; but they let him go for peanuts. Just sayin'.

link: http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/numbers.asp

[bubba9497]

I have confirmed proof Billy is phoning it in during OTA's... and he ain't the only one :D

[THEHEREAFTER]

Let's check out the stats of the cowboys vaunted crop of young defenders:

Canty
TOT SOLO AST SACK STF STFY FF
36 24 12 2.5 5 8 1

Very mediocre, for a DE of that size...2.5 sacks? nothing special to me.

Marion Barber:
ATT YDS AVG LNG TD REC YDS AVG LNG TD FUM LST
2005 138 538 3.9 28 5 18 115 6.4 21 0 3
Only one good game, against AZ, where he rushed for 147yrds...check out the fumble category, 3 fumbles in 138 carries--that's steller.Oh, and no TD's.

Spears:
TOT SOLO AST SACK STF STFY FF BK INT YDS AVG LNG TD PD
2005 31 20 11 1.5 1 1 0 0 0
The other amazing Dallas DE--well, for a first rounder, I'd say there's not too much going on here. He missed 3 games in the middle of the season.

Burnett:
Who's he?

Ware:
2005 58 47 11 8.0 10 20 3 0 0

A very good rookie season, long and bright future ahead of him...but like Bird said, Ware's about it.

This show such a lack of football knowledge I don't even know where to begin. Impact is not always shown on the stat lines. The flaw that I find in many skins posters here is that you flat out don't know your rival yet you make sweeping generalizations about players and situations as if you do. Atleast try to sound intelligent.

[HeHateMe]

sure it is... :laugh:

only one flaw in your little rhetoric, you have to actually have something to be envious of first :rolleyes:

Well I'll be damned.

I always thought having a Hall of Fame coach was something to be envious of.

Call me crazy, but I think plenty of teams would swap coaches with Dallas right now if they could.

[THEHEREAFTER]

:


St. Louis didn't match the offer we gave Arch, even though they had the cap room. His production has dropped his past few years, and he's been injured. However, I believe this was a scheme issue, as the Rams were playing him out of position (FS).
[/url]

And there it is.... :doh: :laugh:

[HeHateMe]

Yeah....the fans of the team coached by JOE FREAKIN' GIBBS are jealous of the Tuna. Keep dreaming, bro. :laugh:

When did I say Washington fans?

Calm down there J-Rock.

Just like many teams would swap with Dallas for coaches, theyd do the same with Washington.

Its something about Hall of Fame coaches I suppose.

[HeHateMe]

BP is going through the motions...

If you think rookies are the answer, then you're sadly mistaken. Rookies are as likely to cost you as to help you...especially in a complicated scheme.

But keep hoping...

Yeah, really.

Those rookies from 2005 didnt have much of an impact and wont this season either.

I guess the same will be said of the 2006 class too when all is said and done. :rolleyes:

[HeHateMe]

Like I said, Ware and that's it. Canty, Barber, Spears, Burnett? Really? Such important cogs, huh?

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Thanks for proving my point for me.

Did you even watch a game?

Many would contend that Canty had more of an impact on the defense than Ware and Spears did.

Do some research before posting.

[HeHateMe]

Let's check out the stats of the cowboys vaunted crop of young defenders:

Canty
TOT SOLO AST SACK STF STFY FF
36 24 12 2.5 5 8 1

Very mediocre, for a DE of that size...2.5 sacks? nothing special to me.

Marion Barber:
ATT YDS AVG LNG TD REC YDS AVG LNG TD FUM LST
2005 138 538 3.9 28 5 18 115 6.4 21 0 3
Only one good game, against AZ, where he rushed for 147yrds...check out the fumble category, 3 fumbles in 138 carries--that's steller.Oh, and no TD's.

Spears:
TOT SOLO AST SACK STF STFY FF BK INT YDS AVG LNG TD PD
2005 31 20 11 1.5 1 1 0 0 0
The other amazing Dallas DE--well, for a first rounder, I'd say there's not too much going on here. He missed 3 games in the middle of the season.

Burnett:
Who's he?

Ware:
2005 58 47 11 8.0 10 20 3 0 0

A very good rookie season, long and bright future ahead of him...but like Bird said, Ware's about it.

Please, please dont tell me you think that a defensive lineman should be judged by his stats alone?

Before I even get into it, I'll let you answer that.

[bubba9497]

Well I'll be damned.

I always thought having a Hall of Fame coach was something to be envious of.

Call me crazy, but I think plenty of teams would swap coaches with Dallas right now if they could.


come on at least use facts, not to mention you said Skin fans were jealous of the pokes :jerk:


Ummm which team has a HOF coach currently coaching them????

Not only is Billy boy not in the hall yet, But Our Coach you know Joe Gibbs is, and has more accolades and Rings than Parcells... again what is there to be envious of :rothflmao:


What exactly is there for any skin fan to be jealous of...

Coach/Staff? ... nope
Better record?... nope
Playoffs?... nope
Better defense?... nope
Better offense?.. nope
Owner? HAHAHAHAHA, oh hell no
Star Players...again a hardy Hell NO!!

[jrockster21]

And there it is.... :doh: :laugh:


You want to try and debate the topic at hand? Or just make flippant comments with lots of smilies?

[bubba9497]

You want to try and debate the topic at hand? Or just make flippant comments with lots of smilies?


Flippant remarks= I ain't got squat to counter this... so I will act swarmy, and just avoid the issue.. just using silly statements to knock on anything I can't prove wrong. :doh:


do you expect anything else? :laugh:

the funny part is they actually think people can't read between the lines :rolleyes:

[THEHEREAFTER]

:laugh:
come on at least use facts, not to mention you said Skin fans were jealous of the pokes :jerk:


Ummm which team has a HOF coach currently coaching them????

Not only is Billy boy not in the hall yet, But Our Coach you know Joe Gibbs is, and has more accolades and Rings than Parcells... again what is there to be envious of :rothflmao:


What exactly is there for any skin fan to be jealous of...

Coach/Staff? ... nope
Better record?... nope
Playoffs?... nope
Better defense?... nope
Better offense?.. nope
Owner? HAHAHAHAHA, oh hell no
Star Players...again a hardy Hell NO!!

:laugh:

The Envy, as we both know Bubba, is deep rooted.
Dominating the series for the past 8 years and throughout it's history? Yep
Star Players (historically)? Yep
SP Appearances? :laugh:
Rings? :laugh:
Playoff Wins? Yep
National Appeal? Yep

[skins4eva]

:laugh:

:laugh:

The Envy, as we both know Bubba, is deep rooted.
Dominating the series for the past 8 years and throughout it's history? Yep
Star Players (historically)? Yep
SP Appearances? :laugh:
Rings? :laugh:
Playoff Wins? Yep
National Appeal? Yep


National Appeal??? You mean the self-appointed america's team? Hardly. No one can stand the cowboys execept cowboys fans.

[THEHEREAFTER]

Flippant remarks= I ain't got squat to counter this... so I will act swarmy, and just avoid the issue.. just using silly statements to knock on anything I can't prove wrong. :doh:


do you expect anything else? :laugh:

the funny part is they actually think people can't read between the lines :rolleyes:

Bubba your full of %$#$ and the biggest damn homer on this site. Everyone knows it. Even skins fans. Entering a debate with you is like arguing with a 6 year old. You unbelievably biased and stubborn. This site and homering the skins is your entire life. Read between that.

[jrockster21]

jrockster,
Ok, you obviously don't understand the term "arguably".

I understand the term fine. You are arguing that Newman was the best CB in the league last season. I am arguing that you are out your damn mind. Homer.



My arguement is this:

Last year Newman was thrown at 66 times and allowed 28 completions (42.4 percent) for 308 yards and no (0) touchdowns. He intercepted two of those, deflected one to Dat Nguyen for an interception and had another interception off a pass tipped by Bradie James. The Cowboys' coaches credit him with 15 passes deflected, while NFL.com says he has 17.



Show me someone who was as dominant.


But i am the stupid one. :doh:

You got a link for all those stats? Or do you expect us to take your word for it? :rolleyes:

[skins4eva]

Bubba your full of %$#$ and the biggest damn homer on this site. Everyone knows it. Even skins fans. Entering a debate with you is like arguing with a 6 year old. You unbelievably biased and stubborn. This site and homering the skins is your entire life. Read between that.

Hey, guess what?? You don't like arguing with skins fans---get the hell outta here...one less dallas fan corrupting this board, imo.

[THEHEREAFTER]

Hey, guess what?? You don't like arguing with skins fans---get the hell outta here...one less dallas fan corrupting this board, imo.

I don't like arguing with Bubba.

[THEHEREAFTER]

National Appeal??? You mean the self-appointed america's team? Hardly. No one can stand the cowboys execept cowboys fans.

Hey, I have an idea. From this day on just declare the skins as Americas Team. Hell, you represent the Nations Capital right? So just do it. Appoint yourselves Americas Team. Should be pretty easy.

[jrockster21]

Bubba your full of %$#$ and the biggest damn homer on this site. Everyone knows it. Even skins fans. Entering a debate with you is like arguing with a 6 year old. You unbelievably biased and stubborn. This site and homering the skins is your entire life. Read between that.


Still don't want to enter the debate? Well then why don't you just STFU then? We don't need your silly remarks and insults in this debate.

Shoo fly.

[bubba9497]

:laugh:

:laugh:

The Envy, as we both know Bubba, is deep rooted.
Dominating the series for the past 8 years and throughout it's history? Yep
Star Players (historically)? Yep
SP Appearances? :laugh:
Rings? :laugh:
Playoff Wins? Yep
National Appeal? Yep


When in a hole whip out the old "what we did in the past", even though most of it is irrelevant today, or has nothing to do with the orginal statement you made. :rolleyes:

again you have yet to provide anything to be envious of by Skin fans

National appeal :rotflmao: oh my gawd, you actually posted that as if it was something anybody gave a **** about.

Well when we are whipping you ass again this year, on the way to the Super Bowl..... you can look back with pride of all your teams accomplishments back in the 70's-90's. :D

[jrockster21]

Actually, its you that's hoping.

I know its just hate and envy.

Been dealing with it for a while.


When did I say Washington fans?

Just like many teams would swap with Dallas for coaches, theyd do the same with Washington.

Its something about Hall of Fame coaches I suppose.


Sorry...sounds like you were saying Washington fans wer envious of the Cowturds. :whoknows:

[skins4eva]

Hey, I have an idea. From this day on just declare the skins as Americas Team. Hell, you represent the Nations Capital right? So just do it. Appoint yourselves Americas Team. Should be pretty easy.


Listen--never claimed I wanted to. It's the cowboys who think of themselves as america's team, not other fans, or for that matter the general public. We don't have any issues with our fan base.

[THEHEREAFTER]

You want to try and debate the topic at hand? Or just make flippant comments with lots of smilies?

Actually you made your points well in regards to your FA's. I just found the speil on Arch to be exactly what you accuse Boys fans of.

[THEHEREAFTER]

Listen--never claimed I wanted to. It's the cowboys who think of themselves as america's team, not other fans, or for that matter the general public. We don't have any issues with our fan base.


So you think since Boys fans simply thought we were "Americas Team" then the entire sports nation just labeled us as such. That's all there was to it? If you don't have any issues with your fan base then you would show more of a relaxed comfortable confidence with respect to your rivals. I just don't get that impression especially on this site.

[powerANDgut]

Got a friend from Parcells hometown in jersey where he is considered a god. Still has a home and restaurant. Pretty much said that everyone was devastated that he came back with the Cowboys.

He also said it was widely considered he came back just for the paycheck b/c he had recently gotten divorced and the wife got half. So he signed with the boys for 20+ mil over five years that the old wifey can't touch.

[jrockster21]

Actually you made your points well in regards to your FA's. I just found the speil on Arch to be exactly what you accuse Boys fans of.

Arch's situation was a little different. Yeah, St. Louis let him go, but from their perspective, his stats had been dropping significantly. He had 116 tackles 3 years ago, but hasn't broken 90 since. Last season were his lowest totals since his rookie season. I contend it was because he was out of position...:whoknows:

I guess you can view that as homerish...I don't see it that way though.

[skins4eva]

So you think since Boys fans simply thought we were "Americas Team" then the entire sports nation just labeled us as such. That's all there was to it? If you don't have any issues with your fan base then you would show more of a relaxed comfortable confidence with respect to your rivals. I just don't get that impression especially on this site.


Have you been to any of the cowboys fans sites? I don't get the impression of a "relaxed comfortable confidence" over there either. Sort of the nature of the beast.

[bubba9497]

Bubba your full of %$#$ and the biggest damn homer on this site. Everyone knows it. Even skins fans. Entering a debate with you is like arguing with a 6 year old. You unbelievably biased and stubborn. This site and homering the skins is your entire life. Read between that.



if you can't dispute me logically.. you turn to insults... yet I am the 6 year old. :laugh:

I have been called worse, but when it is all said an done.. I am right a hell of a lot more often than wrong.

Me and Skin fans in general are the only homers, :thumbsup:

ever hear the one about the Pot-Kettle-Black???


insults, flippant remarks, opinion, avoidance = :loser:

[THEHEREAFTER]

if you can't dispute me logically.. you turn to insults... yet I am the 6 year old. :laugh:

I have been called worse, but when it is all said an done.. I am right a hell of a lot more often than wrong.

Me and Skin fans in general are the only homers, :thumbsup:

ever hear the one about the Pot-Kettle-Black???


insults, flippant remarks, opinion, avoidance = :loser:

Your a good sport Bubba. I must admit that. I can dispute you logically it's just a headache. I've been down that road before. Generally speaking, logic does not work here. Like J-Rock said, my mere prescence here causes animosity. Your one of those guys that's just suuuuuch a homer and soooooo stubborn that I actually respect your gangsta man. Your like an OG homer. Keep doin you.

[HeHateMe]

come on at least use facts, not to mention you said Skin fans were jealous of the pokes :jerk:


Ummm which team has a HOF coach currently coaching them????

Not only is Billy boy not in the hall yet, But Our Coach you know Joe Gibbs is, and has more accolades and Rings than Parcells... again what is there to be envious of :rothflmao:


What exactly is there for any skin fan to be jealous of...

Coach/Staff? ... nope
Better record?... nope
Playoffs?... nope
Better defense?... nope
Better offense?.. nope
Owner? HAHAHAHAHA, oh hell no
Star Players...again a hardy Hell NO!!

Never once did I specifically say SKINS fans were jealous.

As for Parcells not being in the Hall, anytime youre feeling lucky about any type of wager, I'm ALL EARS.

Gibbs has more rings than Lombardi so I guess that makes him a better coach. :rolleyes:

[HeHateMe]

Sorry...sounds like you were saying Washington fans wer envious of the Cowturds. :whoknows:

No problem J-Rock.

I can see how it may have seemed like that, but I was generalizing about fans of the NFL.

Many hate on Parcells.

Including Skins fans.

But while many teams would swap coaches with Dallas in a heartbeat, Skins fans wouldnt.

I understand this and think its perfectly legitimate.

But I also understand myself, and most, if not all Dallas fans, wouldnt swap Parcells for Gibbs too.

[jrockster21]

But I also understand myself, and most, if not all Dallas fans, wouldnt swap Parcells for Gibbs too.


Jerrah would....Gibbs was his first choice. :)

[Birdlives]

Got a friend from Parcells hometown in jersey where he is considered a god. Still has a home and restaurant. Pretty much said that everyone was devastated that he came back with the Cowboys.

He also said it was widely considered he came back just for the paycheck b/c he had recently gotten divorced and the wife got half. So he signed with the boys for 20+ mil over five years that the old wifey can't touch.

Thanks for contributing something relevant to the original theme of this thread. That was my impression also. All we get from cowboys fans, instead of an intelligent debate is a bunch of "no it isn't, you're just dumb," arguments. I'll address those guys in the next posts.

[Birdlives]

This show such a lack of football knowledge I don't even know where to begin. Impact is not always shown on the stat lines. The flaw that I find in many skins posters here is that you flat out don't know your rival yet you make sweeping generalizations about players and situations as if you do. Atleast try to sound intelligent.

Please elaborate. These guys were high-end contributors on your team huh? In what way? Why aren't they being lauded by the press? I have ESPN insider which provides me with articles and stories from across the nation about every football team and I didn't hear a whole lot about these guys. So, are you going with the standard cowboys, "no it isn't" logic or do you actually have something to contribute?

How about the original theme of the thread? Are you saying Parcells seems just as fired up as he did when he was with the Pats/Jets/giants? Or is it the old, "In a word, no" response.

[Birdlives]

Well I'll be damned.

I always thought having a Hall of Fame coach was something to be envious of.

Call me crazy, but I think plenty of teams would swap coaches with Dallas right now if they could.

Um, yeah, Parcells isn't in the hall of fame, but Joe Jack is. Parcells hasn't retired long enough to be inducted. I'm sure he'll get in when he is eligible though.

[Birdlives]

Yeah, really.

Those rookies from 2005 didnt have much of an impact and wont this season either.

I guess the same will be said of the 2006 class too when all is said and done. :rolleyes:

Again, why not elaborate? Just because you say something and add a smiley rolling its eyes doesn't do anything but make you look like a know nothing. Care to contribute something relevant to the discussion?

I give major ups to Weownu and Spizzunk in this respect. At least they can discuss and argue about things with some sort of tangible facts or information.

[Birdlives]

Did you even watch a game?

Many would contend that Canty had more of an impact on the defense than Ware and Spears did.

Do some research before posting.

Again. Who would contend this? These guy were brought in to improve the defense. The cowboys had 22 turnovers forced in 2004 and 26 turnovers in 2005, meanwhile, they had 33 sacks in 2004 and 37 sacks in 2005. Is this whopping +4 increase attributable to the amazing draft that the cowboys had? Or was it guys like Henry and other veteran free agents that helped get this hugely significant increase? Do you think going from 16th in 2004 to 10th is because these guys came in? If so, how? Maybe its because they had an easier schedule after coming off a 6-10 season versus coming off a 10-6 the year before. Well? Anything to contribute besides telling people to do research? I did some research and I'm not seeing it.

[jnhay]

My contention is that Bill is collecting a paycheck and not much more. He doesn't seem to be concerned with developing players much less drafting them to suit his needs. He just doesn't seem to be the Bill Parcells of old. Firey, competitive, needing and wanting control. Does anybody else see this?
What evidence backs that up?

[Birdlives]

What evidence backs that up?

Like I've said already, this is my contention. From what I've seen of him he's not the coach I remember from his days with the giants/pats/jets. He doesn't have the same fire that he did when he used to lambast the press for asking stupid questions. He doesn't get in players faces on the sideline. His general demeanor seems much more muted. I would think the fact that the cowboys have floundered since his return is enough for some people to think he doesn't have his heart in the game the same way he used to. He always displayed a certain amount of success with his former teams, a level of success that seems to have eluded the cowboys. The fact that he's more than willing to let JJ run his team with little or no input is also telling in my opinion. I just wanted to see if anybody else had noticed these same things or not. I believe I also put in earlier that he was divorced just prior to taking the cowboys job. That kind of financial as well as emotional hit can weigh on someone pretty hard. Perhaps, just perhaps, he's only in it for the money now? Anyways, that's what I have for you. Obviously the only concrete evidence is in Bill's head, and ain't coming out for us to see.

[jnhay]

Like I've said already, this is my contention. From what I've seen of him he's not the coach I remember from his days with the giants/pats/jets. He doesn't have the same fire that he did when he used to lambast the press for asking stupid questions. He doesn't get in players faces on the sideline. His general demeanor seems much more muted. I would think the fact that the cowboys have floundered since his return is enough for some people to think he doesn't have his heart in the game the same way he used to. He always displayed a certain amount of success with his former teams, a level of success that seems to have eluded the cowboys. The fact that he's more than willing to let JJ run his team with little or no input is also telling in my opinion. I just wanted to see if anybody else had noticed these same things or not. I believe I also put in earlier that he was divorced just prior to taking the cowboys job. That kind of financial as well as emotional hit can weigh on someone pretty hard. Perhaps, just perhaps, he's only in it for the money now? Anyways, that's what I have for you. Obviously the only concrete evidence is in Bill's head, and ain't coming out for us to see.
I realized, after I wrote it, that you probably elaborated in one of the 7 pages. I just looked at your first post. :)

Saying that, I don't really think he's necessarily losing any passion or work ethic. I think he's just getting a little more mellow as he's getting up there in age. If you listen to him in any of the interviews, or see him in certain instances on the sideline, he still seems pretty passionate. Maybe he just has a new outlook on things.

[Birdlives]

No problem, just glad you could contribute an opinion. Thanks.

:)

[Ken]

Well, read through this entire thread and Redskins fans should be ashamed.

If i didn't know anything about football, and i stumbled across this thread, I would think that last year the Cowboys were a 0-16 squad and the Skins were 16-0.

Nice job guys!

[HeHateMe]

Again, why not elaborate? Just because you say something and add a smiley rolling its eyes doesn't do anything but make you look like a know nothing. Care to contribute something relevant to the discussion?

I give major ups to Weownu and Spizzunk in this respect. At least they can discuss and argue about things with some sort of tangible facts or information.

I don't need to prove myself to you.

I've garnered the respect of those who matter on this site.

Something I'm proud of.

If I have to elaborate on the impact and contributions of the rookie class in Dallas not named Ware to a Redskins fan, then by all means, keep your head in the Redskins sand where it belongs.

Wearing burgandy and gold blinders suits you well.

[HeHateMe]

Um, yeah, Parcells isn't in the hall of fame, but Joe Jack is. Parcells hasn't retired long enough to be inducted. I'm sure he'll get in when he is eligible though.

Wow, what a prediction.

Thanks for sharing.

Is the sun going to come up tomorrow too?

[HeHateMe]

Again. Who would contend this? These guy were brought in to improve the defense. The cowboys had 22 turnovers forced in 2004 and 26 turnovers in 2005, meanwhile, they had 33 sacks in 2004 and 37 sacks in 2005. Is this whopping +4 increase attributable to the amazing draft that the cowboys had? Or was it guys like Henry and other veteran free agents that helped get this hugely significant increase? Do you think going from 16th in 2004 to 10th is because these guys came in? If so, how? Maybe its because they had an easier schedule after coming off a 6-10 season versus coming off a 10-6 the year before. Well? Anything to contribute besides telling people to do research? I did some research and I'm not seeing it.

Well, pay attention this year to the defense and maybe you'll see the light.

[HeHateMe]

Please elaborate. These guys were high-end contributors on your team huh? In what way? Why aren't they being lauded by the press? I have ESPN insider which provides me with articles and stories from across the nation about every football team and I didn't hear a whole lot about these guys. So, are you going with the standard cowboys, "no it isn't" logic or do you actually have something to contribute?

How about the original theme of the thread? Are you saying Parcells seems just as fired up as he did when he was with the Pats/Jets/giants? Or is it the old, "In a word, no" response.

Wow! You have ESPN Insider? Congratulations on being so informed.

Try getting the NFL ticket, taping the Dallas games (and all other relevant games you see fit), watching them later on and forming your own opinons.

It's done wonders for me.

When you draw your own conclusions and form your own opinions based on everything, NOT just what "other writers" and ESPN Insider has to say, maybe you'll get it.

As for Parcells, yes, I am saying he is just as fired up as he was with all his other teams of the past.

The man is in his 60's. Just because he doesnt exude the personality he did when he was in other cities does NOT mean he is "phoning it in".

I've seen every press conference during his tenure in Dallas. Heard every word he's spoken on every topic he's ventured into.

He's the same today as he was when he was first introduced to Dallas.

Desire, passion, and determination is what I saw then, and it what I see now.

Ask respected ES.com member Dirk Diggler if he thinks Parcells is "phoning it in".

DD loves Parcells and may know him better than even I do (because he followed more closely before Dallas).

If he's in the mood, he'll entertain you. But more importantly, he'll educate you.

And in the end, you'll learn that if Parcells lost even ONE milligram of the passion of coaching in the NFL, he wouldve never come back to Dallas this season.

Let alone sign an extension beyond it.

[WeownU]

:doh: Guess you've never heard of the salary cap? :doh: :doh: :doh:

Pitssburgh is only 3.2 million under the cap, and couldn't afford to keep ARE. They wanted to keep him badly; he was a fan favorite and if you recall, an integral part of the SB victory. But a smart guy like you would know that. :doh:]

Oh, ok, so you telling me Pittsburgh couldn't have moved money around, or restructured a contract or two? I guess only Washington is the only team that can do that? Puh-lease. They didn't want him.


:Lloyd wanted out of San Fran. And we TRADED FOR HIM. :doh:]

Of course he did. He saw an opportunity to be overpaid in DC and he jumped on it. He's got bad hands, but he's not stupid.


:St. Louis didn't match the offer we gave Arch, even though they had the cap room. His production has dropped his past few years, and he's been injured. However, I believe this was a scheme issue, as the Rams were playing him out of position (FS). ]
So if it was as simple as that, why not move him into the SS slot? Face it, they didn't want him.


:The Jaguars are a whopping $13.8 million under the cap, and could have easily matched or beaten Dallas' offer. He was a young player on a great defense; but they let him go for peanuts. Just sayin'.]

I'd rather be let go from a great defense, than let go from a poor one.....Archuleta or Carter. Or a Poor offense....Lloyd.

link: http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/numbers.asp[/QUOTE]

[WeownU]

he's not the coach I remember from his days with the giants/pats/jets. He doesn't have the same fire that he did when he used to lambast the press for asking stupid questions. He doesn't get in players faces on the sideline. His general demeanor seems much more muted. I would think the fact that the cowboys have floundered since his return is enough for some people to think he doesn't have his heart in the game the same way he used to.


Doesn't have the same fire????

Did you not see him Screaming "Shut Up" to keyshawn on the sideline
Did you not see him push a coach out of his way in an angry fit on the sideline during a a game. Both of them were on every sportcenter for a week.

And God KNOWS he still lambasts the media. He is BRUTAL towards them. Treats them like pond scum he does. The media hate him here for it.

As far as floundering since he's returned....he's gone 25-23 in 3 years.
Gibbs has gone 16-16. You have had 1 more playoff game than us. One. If thats "floundering", than you must be of the George Steinbrenner school of thought, that if you don't win every year, you're fired.

Whats funny here is even though Parcells is above .500 and Gibbs in not, you keep talking about how "Superior" Gibbs is. Whats even funnier is you (skins fans) continue to talk about how superior your talent is to ours, how superior your coaching staff is to ours, yet in Gibbs first two years he was 16-16, with 2 playoff games played, and in Parcells first 2 years here, he was 16-16 with 1 playoff game played. Yet you have superior talent and superior coaching?????? I'd be piszed off if I were you guys then, cause something obviously isn't working for you.

So is it the coaches, or is it the players that you overrate?????

[skins4eva]

Doesn't have the same fire????

Did you not see him Screaming "Shut Up" to keyshawn on the sideline
Did you not see him push a coach out of his way in an angry fit on the sideline during a a game. Both of them were on every sportcenter for a week.

And God KNOWS he still lambasts the media. He is BRUTAL towards them. Treats them like pond scum he does. The media hate him here for it.

As far as floundering since he's returned....he's gone 25-23 in 3 years.
Gibbs has gone 16-16. You have had 1 more playoff game than us. One. If thats "floundering", than you must be of the George Steinbrenner school of thought, that if you don't win every year, you're fired.

Whats funny here is even though Parcells is above .500 and Gibbs in not, you keep talking about how "Superior" Gibbs is. Whats even funnier is you (skins fans) continue to talk about how superior your talent is to ours, how superior your coaching staff is to ours, yet in Gibbs first two years he was 16-16, with 2 playoff games played, and in Parcells first 2 years here, he was 16-16 with 1 playoff game played. Yet you have superior talent and superior coaching?????? I'd be piszed off if I were you guys then, cause something obviously isn't working for you.

So is it the coaches, or is it the players that you overrate?????


Give me a break. Do you really think you're going to come on to this site and convice us that a) Parcells is a better coach; b) Dallas has superior talent; and c) Dallas has superior coaching?

Parcells had a playoff caliber team his first year and it regressed the following year. Gibbs, however, has improved drastically each year. That to me, is the most significant difference btw Gibbs and Parcells right now. All I hear about is how amazing the dallas defense is--well, honestly, how amazing were they last season? Was it not the vaunted dallas d that gave up 31 points to San Fran and "can't catch" Lloyd? You gave up 35 to us. Yes, dallas has a good d, would I consider it one of the best in the league? No, certainly not based on last years results. And yet, to hear cowboys fans talk about it, you'd think they had the 85 bears defense on the field. It just ain't so. Everyone in dallas is just so enamored with the 3-4 that they fail to see that it hasn't produced results yet.

[jrockster21]

Well, read through this entire thread and Redskins fans should be ashamed.

If i didn't know anything about football, and i stumbled across this thread, I would think that last year the Cowboys were a 0-16 squad and the Skins were 16-0.

Nice job guys!

There's been only one team's fans who have proclaimed their pretty good CB "the best CB in the NFL last season," and it twas not the Redskins. :)

(Notice that HHM, the most intelligent Cowpuke fan on this board, did not jump to your defense)



Oh, ok, so you telling me Pittsburgh couldn't have moved money around, or restructured a contract or two? I guess only Washington is the only team that can do that? Puh-lease. They didn't want him.

If you're going to be stupid about it, there's no point even discussing it with you. IF you can't tell the difference between a little over 3 million under the cap and 14 million under the cap, well, you're simply a retard and there's nothing I can do to help explain it. :whoknows:



Of course he did. He saw an opportunity to be overpaid in DC and he jumped on it. He's got bad hands, but he's not stupid.

Once again....WE TRADED FOR HIM. Lloyd had no say in where he ended up because he WAS TRADED. He had a bad relationship with the Niners, and wanted out of San Fran. Then he WAS TRADED to the Skins. You do understand the concept of players being traded, right? :rolleyes:

Oh, and his hands were terrible when he dropped 140 yards and 2 TDs against the Cowturds, weren't they?? Absolutely horrible. ;) Could it be a certain game is clouding your homeristic judgement of Lloyd? :)



So if it was as simple as that, why not move him into the SS slot? Face it, they didn't want him.

I don't really know how to respond to this....its so stupid it actually made me a little dumber just reading it.



I'd rather be let go from a great defense, than let go from a poor one.....Archuleta or Carter. Or a Poor offense....Lloyd.

Uhhh...okay. That made no sense whatsoever. And nobody cares about you...the discussion at hand are free-agent acquisitions. Please try to make sensical arguments from here on out, okay? :) Thanks in advance.

[bubba9497]

If Dallas' D is soooooo good, then our D is freaking awesome, because we were better than the pokes in every stat catagory :laugh:

Total D
Passing
Rushing
Scored against
TOP
Turnovers

[bubba9497]

Well, read through this entire thread and Redskins fans should be ashamed.

If i didn't know anything about football, and i stumbled across this thread, I would think that last year the Cowboys were a 0-16 squad and the Skins were 16-0.

Nice job guys!



:laugh:

and pokes fans posts seem fair and realistic :jerk:



worst spin attempt ever

[bubba9497]

Gibbs has more rings than Lombardi so I guess that makes him a better coach. :rolleyes:

again a nonsensical response

1. Lombardi had more NFL Championships, because most of his years coaching were Pre- super bowl era

2. you said Parcells is a HOF coach, not future HOF coach,.... I guess we can call Art Monk a HOF WR then :)

3. you referred to me a "Redskin fan" as being envious, simple assumption

4. Gibbs is above Parcells in almost every way, not just Super Bowl victories.

5. I'm still waiting for some tangible evidence to back up your claims

[tr1]

Yeah, really.

Those rookies from 2005 didnt have much of an impact and wont this season either.

I guess the same will be said of the 2006 class too when all is said and done. :rolleyes:

Hey, maybe you're right. Those rookies got you into the playoffs...er, oops...no they didn't...damn.
:laugh:

[tr1]

:laugh:

:laugh:

The Envy, as we both know Bubba, is deep rooted.
Dominating the series for the past 8 years and throughout it's history? Yep
Star Players (historically)? Yep
SP Appearances? :laugh:
Rings? :laugh:
Playoff Wins? Yep
National Appeal? Yep

Unfortunately for you, in the NFL it's what have you done for me lately.

Did the pukes make the playoffs last year? No.

Did the pukes beat the Redskins last year? No.

[tr1]

Like J-Rock said, my mere prescence here causes animosity.

A legend in your own mind.

[tr1]

Well, read through this entire thread and Redskins fans should be ashamed.

If i didn't know anything about football, and i stumbled across this thread, I would think that last year the Cowboys were a 0-16 squad and the Skins were 16-0.

Nice job guys!

The pukes didn't make it to the playoffs and struggled with the Skins. I'd say they took a step back...wouldn't you?

And to count on rookies to make the difference this year is, well, wishful thinking.

[jrockster21]

Well, read through this entire thread and Redskins fans should be ashamed.

If i didn't know anything about football, and i stumbled across this thread, I would think that last year the Cowboys were a 0-16 squad and the Skins were 16-0.

Nice job guys!


Guess that means you don't have a link for your stats. :rolleyes: Boy am I shocked!

[Birdlives]

I don't need to prove myself to you.

I've garnered the respect of those who matter on this site.

Something I'm proud of.

If I have to elaborate on the impact and contributions of the rookie class in Dallas not named Ware to a Redskins fan, then by all means, keep your head in the Redskins sand where it belongs.

Wearing burgandy and gold blinders suits you well.

I'm not asking you to prove yourself to me, I'm asking you to back up anything you've said. If you could, then you would, but you can't so you won't. Plain and simple. I also don't recall seeing anyone give you any respect on this site. Maybe it's because I'm new here, but you appear to be a legend in you own mind.

[jrockster21]

Like J-Rock said, my mere prescence here causes animosity.


I actually never said that....read a little more carefully. I said that if all you were going to do was to throw insults and quips around instead of debating, then STFU. That's quite different than "your mere prescence causing animosity." Its your mouth. If you want to talk football, then the more the merrier! :)

[Birdlives]

Wow! You have ESPN Insider? Congratulations on being so informed.
Try getting the NFL ticket, taping the Dallas games (and all other relevant games you see fit), watching them later on and forming your own opinons.
It's done wonders for me.
When you draw your own conclusions and form your own opinions based on everything, NOT just what "other writers" and ESPN Insider has to say, maybe you'll get it.
As for Parcells, yes, I am saying he is just as fired up as he was with all his other teams of the past.
The man is in his 60's. Just because he doesnt exude the personality he did when he was in other cities does NOT mean he is "phoning it in".
I've seen every press conference during his tenure in Dallas. Heard every word he's spoken on every topic he's ventured into.
He's the same today as he was when he was first introduced to Dallas.
Desire, passion, and determination is what I saw then, and it what I see now.
Ask respected ES.com member Dirk Diggler if he thinks Parcells is "phoning it in".
DD loves Parcells and may know him better than even I do (because he followed more closely before Dallas).
If he's in the mood, he'll entertain you. But more importantly, he'll educate you.
And in the end, you'll learn that if Parcells lost even ONE milligram of the passion of coaching in the NFL, he wouldve never come back to Dallas this season.
Let alone sign an extension beyond it.

Hey, at least you answered the question instead of applying the typical "no it isn't" logic I've seen displayed in here all too often.

As for my point, it was that not even the Dallas press is lauding the guys you are trying to make out as all-world. Sorry, but I'll take their opinion over yours. I saw plenty enough of Dallas to know I'm right. Ware was the only rookie that contributed significantly last year. Sorry that I don't have time to tape games and review them ad-infinitum. I'm sure you're a scout quality football guy with so much knowlege you could run a team, and watching games over and over gives you some sort of profound insight.:rolleyes:

I am drawing my own conclusions based on the games I saw. The Dallas defense was good, but certainly not legendary, or all-world as you make it out ot be. Those rooks you talk of contributed some, but not much.That, after all was part of the main point no matter how far away you try to spin it with insults and bravado. Where were those rooks during the SF game when you guys let Lloyd walk all over you and let SF's 32nd ranked offense score 31? Where was that vaunted D when we put up 35?

It's great that you saw every instance of BP in the press and on the sidelines. So you think he's the same. That's your opinion, thanks for contributing. I'm just sorry it had to be laced with insults.

:rolleyes: I'm sure you are the most objective person in these forums which is why you spend your time in here with the redskins fans.:rolleyes:

As for Mr. Diggler I'm sure he know where this thread is, if he wants to contribute he's more than welcome.

[Birdlives]

Doesn't have the same fire????

Did you not see him Screaming "Shut Up" to keyshawn on the sideline
Did you not see him push a coach out of his way in an angry fit on the sideline during a a game. Both of them were on every sportcenter for a week.

And God KNOWS he still lambasts the media. He is BRUTAL towards them. Treats them like pond scum he does. The media hate him here for it.

It's amazing what one has to do to get an opinion based on evidence out of you. Your first contribution to this thread was simply, "you're wrong and you're stupid!" At least this has something to it.

[Birdlives]

As far as floundering since he's returned....he's gone 25-23 in 3 years.
Gibbs has gone 16-16. You have had 1 more playoff game than us. One. If thats "floundering", than you must be of the George Steinbrenner school of thought, that if you don't win every year, you're fired.

Nice spin. Gibbs record is in 2 years and Parcells had the same record in his first 2 years.

Whats funny here is even though Parcells is above .500 and Gibbs in not, you keep talking about how "Superior" Gibbs is. Whats even funnier is you (skins fans) continue to talk about how superior your talent is to ours, how superior your coaching staff is to ours, yet in Gibbs first two years he was 16-16, with 2 playoff games played, and in Parcells first 2 years here, he was 16-16 with 1 playoff game played. Yet you have superior talent and superior coaching?????? I'd be piszed off if I were you guys then, cause something obviously isn't working for you.

You fail to mention that Gibbs is 1-1 in the playoffs while Parcells is 0-1.

So is it the coaches, or is it the players that you overrate?????

[WeownU]

I see you deflected the question..........AGAIN.

So you're 1-1 in the playoffs and we're 0-1

Yet you have so much more talent and better coaching.

Please explain..........................we're waiting.

[Gilgamesh]

I see you deflected the question..........AGAIN.

So you're 1-1 in the playoffs and we're 0-1

Yet you have so much more talent and better coaching.

Please explain..........................we're waiting.

Actually, it's just you that's waiting. I'm going to lunch. :D

[Birdlives]

Whats funny here is even though Parcells is above .500 and Gibbs in not, you keep talking about how "Superior" Gibbs is. Whats even funnier is you (skins fans) continue to talk about how superior your talent is to ours, how superior your coaching staff is to ours, yet in Gibbs first two years he was 16-16, with 2 playoff games played, and in Parcells first 2 years here, he was 16-16 with 1 playoff game played. Yet you have superior talent and superior coaching?????? I'd be piszed off if I were you guys then, cause something obviously isn't working for you.

So is it the coaches, or is it the players that you overrate?????


I see you deflected the question..........AGAIN.

So you're 1-1 in the playoffs and we're 0-1

Yet you have so much more talent and better coaching.

Please explain..........................we're waiting.

:laugh:

No, your question was whether I overrate the coaches or the players. This is a perfect example of how all you do is spin stuff to try and prove your point and then you never prove a single thing. When have I ever said the Redskins are so much better than the cowboys? When? Do you have a quote? No you don't. As for this second quote. Let's just see how the Skins are doing after their year 3 with Gibbs. As you stated before, Parcells is 25-23 in the regular season and 0-1 in the post season, after 3 years. Gibbs is 16-16 regular and 1-1 postseason after 2. As for the statement that we have more talent and better coaching, you said it, not me.:laugh: I'm not gonna argue with you on that point though.

[THEHEREAFTER]

Please elaborate. These guys were high-end contributors on your team huh? In what way? Why aren't they being lauded by the press? I have ESPN insider which provides me with articles and stories from across the nation about every football team and I didn't hear a whole lot about these guys. So, are you going with the standard cowboys, "no it isn't" logic or do you actually have something to contribute?

How about the original theme of the thread? Are you saying Parcells seems just as fired up as he did when he was with the Pats/Jets/giants? Or is it the old, "In a word, no" response.

What evidence do you have to suggest that Joe Gibbs is any more fired up than Bill Parcells? Why would BP just have extended his contract?

[onedrop]

What evidence do you have to suggest that Joe Gibbs is any more fired up than Bill Parcells? Why would BP just have extended his contract?

Joe Gibbs is coaching HIS team. the team he led, the ONLY team he led. parcells is on what his 4th team? how could he be as emotionally involved as Gibbs? now if bp was back in NY it would be a different story perhaps.

[Birdlives]

What evidence do you have to suggest that Joe Gibbs is any more fired up than Bill Parcells? Why would BP just have extended his contract?


:wtf:

When did I ever say that?

Quit trying to deflect the conversation to some irrelevant tangent that has nothing to do with anything. Do YOU know why and under what circumstances Parcells signed an extension? Apparently not. His original contract was for three years. That means he would have been done after last season. The extension is for an additional 2, through 2007.

Gibbs' contract, even though its not really the issue in this thread, goes through 2007. I assume Gibbs will retire again after either a SB victory or the end of the contract, however, no one really knows. If he doesn't win the SB by 2007, he may stay on.

Either way, I'd be fine with Gregg Williams taking over after Gibbs leaves. Who is going to take the reins of the cowboys? And before you start questioning Williams as a head coach, I'll say one name, Belichik.

Now back to the original issue. Some people in here say Parcells may be older and have mellowed a bit but he's still on point as ever. Some say he's just as firey as he always has been. So which is it? The cowboys fans seem to feel they have the knowlege to answer this question better than the Skins fans as they apparently have seen every minute of every game and press conference. So? How about an answer for that?

How about responding to this guy?


Got a friend from Parcells hometown in jersey where he is considered a god. Still has a home and restaurant. Pretty much said that everyone was devastated that he came back with the Cowboys.

He also said it was widely considered he came back just for the paycheck b/c he had recently gotten divorced and the wife got half. So he signed with the boys for 20+ mil over five years that the old wifey can't touch.

[Byebye]

I see you deflected the question..........AGAIN.

So you're 1-1 in the playoffs and we're 0-1

Yet you have so much more talent and better coaching.

Please explain..........................we're waiting.

going 5-11 then 10-6 is better than going 10-6 then 5-11

[XxSpearheadxX]

I agree about not seeming like he cares. He doesn't really seem fired up at all. Even at the end of last season, after the shallacking we gave his Boys he seemed like he just stopped caring. I don't know about the paycheck collecting though. I think he still wants to win, or at the least he doesn't want to go out like he did last year.

But I disagree about the team building. He's instilled his 3-4 D and has drafted players to fit it nicely.



He cared enough to be so pissed he wouldn't shake Gibbs' hand. I love it. Gibbs and Parcells can't stand each other. Sean Taylor and TO can't stand each other (correction, Sean can't stand TO, TO is scared of Sean.)

Its perfect. To tell you the truth, as much as TO scares me as a reciever, there is no other team I would want Parcells coaching and TO catching passes on. As if I needed another reason to hate.

[Dirk Diggler]

I don't know if any of us have the info at our disposal to speak on Parcells’s "fire" one way or the other. I'm sure he's just as driven to succeed as he's always been based on the time he's putting in and the fact that his reputation is always at steak. In fact, with his coaching staff, he probably feels compelled to log even greater hours than he might normally in order to pick up their slack. If this team peters out and goes 7-9 and Tuna retires - his legacy will still be that of a HOF coach. Just a HOF coach who had diminishing returns every place he went.

Perhaps the greatest difference between this Dallas team and Parcells’s past teams in other cities is the support structure. He had a great staff and a good/great front office at every other stop. IMO, he doesn't have either here. He's down to a bunch of 4th and 5th choices when it comes to assistants (though in his defense - guys like Belichek and Weiss/Henning already had jobs). And Jerry Jones is just a total riverboat gambler devoid of rational thought. Another key difference was the talent on hand. In previous stops Parcells managed to win largely with players already in the fold. It was vintage Tuna to take on a team that vastly underachieved since they'd have no where to go but up. It also made him look all the more amazing when his 2 win team became the squad nobody wanted to play down the stretch in Year 1 and a title contender in Year 2. But he misjudged the talent in Dallas. Jones had done such a crappy job acquiring players that he had to turn over virtually the entire roster. The only way to rebuild AND win at the same time is to have great teachers in place. Washington had the right structure in place, turned the roster over and was winning by the end of year 2. Dallas didn’t and hasn’t.

But the Cowboys are now at a point where they have all their talent in place with at least a year in the system. There aren’t any more excuses left as this is now year 4. If you didn’t have the player in back in 2003 you had 4 offseasons to get him. If you didn’t have the right coach you’ve had 4 offseasons to steal one from another staff. It’s now or never. But I don’t know if the rest of the division is going to cooperate. While Tuna has taken the time to get his players in place, the rest of the division hasn’t exactly stood still. This aint the NFC North with 3 new coaches and a couple of so-so rosters. There’s no Joey Harrington or Gus Frerotte at QB or Mike Tice to take advantage of. For Tuna’s sake, I sure hope he’s not mailing it in because if he is – Dallas could be looking at 7-9 and another rebuilding effort.

[Birdlives]

DD, excellent observation. Thanks for the contribution.

[Birdlives]

What I find interesting is the fact that he hasn't had much success without Belichik in the fold, wherever he's gone. It makes me wonder whether Parcells is a great manager and/or not a great game planner, especially considering the success that Belichik has seen in NE. I also wonder how much input Parcells has towards player acquisition. My impression is not much. JJ still appears to be the final say in most player related issues.

[HeHateMe]

If Dallas' D is soooooo good, then our D is freaking awesome, because we were better than the pokes in every stat catagory


Your D is better than ours.

But the gap will closed even more so this year.

[HeHateMe]

The pukes didn't make it to the playoffs and struggled with the Skins. I'd say they took a step back...wouldn't you?

And to count on rookies to make the difference this year is, well, wishful thinking.

Struggled with the Skins?

One blowout in a game that was over at the half.

And the other game?

Sure the Skins won, but to say we struggled with them?

Come on now.

[HeHateMe]

Hey, at least you answered the question instead of applying the typical "no it isn't" logic I've seen displayed in here all too often.

As for my point, it was that not even the Dallas press is lauding the guys you are trying to make out as all-world. Sorry, but I'll take their opinion over yours. I saw plenty enough of Dallas to know I'm right. Ware was the only rookie that contributed significantly last year. Sorry that I don't have time to tape games and review them ad-infinitum. I'm sure you're a scout quality football guy with so much knowlege you could run a team, and watching games over and over gives you some sort of profound insight.:rolleyes:

I am drawing my own conclusions based on the games I saw. The Dallas defense was good, but certainly not legendary, or all-world as you make it out ot be. Those rooks you talk of contributed some, but not much.That, after all was part of the main point no matter how far away you try to spin it with insults and bravado. Where were those rooks during the SF game when you guys let Lloyd walk all over you and let SF's 32nd ranked offense score 31? Where was that vaunted D when we put up 35?

It's great that you saw every instance of BP in the press and on the sidelines. So you think he's the same. That's your opinion, thanks for contributing. I'm just sorry it had to be laced with insults.

:rolleyes: I'm sure you are the most objective person in these forums which is why you spend your time in here with the redskins fans.:rolleyes:

As for Mr. Diggler I'm sure he know where this thread is, if he wants to contribute he's more than welcome.

Never once did I claim our D to be "all-world".

Dont put words in my mouth.

I simply said that other rookies contributions were equal to, or close to equal the contributions of Ware.

And it's watching other games that broadens my horizons and allows me to form my own opinions about players.

Something you've yet to accomplish.

Pointing to our single blowout loss of the season or one player burning a DB a couple times in one game, and using that to say that summed up the season is typical of a fan with his head in the sand.

And I am objective.

Of course here and there I joke about Dallas, but when called out or when my opinion is seriously asked for, it's given with 100% candor.

If you don't know, then ask somebody.

[onedrop]

Struggled with the Skins?

One blowout in a game that was over at the half.

And the other game?

Sure the Skins won, but to say we struggled with them?

Come on now.


i wouldnt say the boys struggled with the Skins last year. id say they got swept, and absolutely CRUSHED the second go round when they were supposed to exact their revenge.

[HeHateMe]

Thanks DD.

I can always count on you.

The only point I'd like to address is that of support staff.

While I agree he has nothing close to what he had in other stops along his wonderful career, does he really have any alternatives?

All of his protege's have become great coaches themselves.

There's really no one left out there from that past that he trusts.

Palmer was one, and he's now in the fold.

I completely agree with your points, but I don't know how one can expect him to surround himself with a great support staff when, at this juncture, it's impossible.

[Dirk Diggler]

I completely agree with your points, but I don't know how one can expect him to surround himself with a great support staff when, at this juncture, it's impossible.

Gibbs had no prior relationship with Williams. I'd be surprised if they had even met. But he knew he had to have the guy to even consider coming out of retirement. Gibbs got the old cronies together for offense but that didn't work out so it's now in the hands of someone more contemporary and hopefully more capable.

Good coaches are out there. There are alternatives. As I said before, he's had 4 offseasons now to not only scout players but coaches as well. Tuna found guys like Belicheck and Weis and Crennel 20 years ago. Why can't he find the next great minds? Not that he has to - he could just take the easy road and hire an Al Saunders or Jim Haslett. Why he'll take a lesser coach in order to assume more control is beyond me. Perhaps it all comes back to the whispers about Belicheck being the most important piece of those Giants teams - even more important than the Tuna himself?

[HeHateMe]

Gibbs had no prior relationship with Williams. I'd be surprised if they had even met. But he knew he had to have the guy to even consider coming out of retirement. Gibbs got the old cronies together for offense but that didn't work out so it's now in the hands of someone more contemporary and hopefully more capable.

Good coaches are out there. There are alternatives. As I said before, he's had 4 offseasons now to not only scout players but coaches as well. Tuna found guys like Belicheck and Weis and Crennel 20 years ago. Why can't he find the next great minds? Not that he has to - he could just take the easy road and hire an Al Saunders or Jim Haslett. Why he'll take a lesser coach in order to assume more control is beyond me. Perhaps it all comes back to the whispers about Belicheck being the most important piece of those Giants teams - even more important than the Tuna himself?

It's a control thing for sure.

But it's also a trust thing too.

Not many have trust that his students did with him.

As for Belicheck, we shall see.

Without his pieces, he's 0 for 1.

Remains to be seen what will happen in the future, but methinks he won't be winning another ring without them.

[Birdlives]

I simply said that other rookies contributions were equal to, or close to equal the contributions of Ware.

And it's watching other games that broadens my horizons and allows me to form my own opinions about players.

Something you've yet to accomplish.

Pointing to our single blowout loss of the season or one player burning a DB a couple times in one game, and using that to say that summed up the season is typical of a fan with his head in the sand.

As far as my head in the sand, I'll only say you obviously dont know me real well much less pay any attention to what I've said in here.

If you think the rookies of the cowboys besides Ware contributed as much as he did (potential rookie of the year), then I have my answer as to how "objective" you really are. As for the last sentence in this quote, you obviously lack reading comprehension skills. I mentioned the fact that your defense gave up 31 points to the 32nd ranked offense early in the year and 35 to us later. Did I say that sums up your defense? No I didn't. These were merely examples of a defense that had rookies on it. Rookies that apparently were so good in your eyes they contributed as much as Ware, a potential rookie of the year. Somehow, I don't think so.

I believe I also mentioned that all you seem to do is insult people and not prove or establish any real points in your posts. Its unfortunate that you don't offer the same respect to others as you expect for yourself.:rolleyes:

[Birdlives]

IAnd it's watching other games that broadens my horizons and allows me to form my own opinions about players.

Something you've yet to accomplish.

I'm certainly not going to get into a "I watch more football than you" argument. That would be pointless.

As for you forming your own opinions about players, that's kind of what we all do there sparky. You seem to think you have some profound knowlege of the game that others lack. Arrogance is a sign of weakness.

[Birdlives]

i wouldnt say the boys struggled with the Skins last year. id say they got swept, and absolutely CRUSHED the second go round when they were supposed to exact their revenge.

With the playoffs on the line.

[Birdlives]

Of course here and there I joke about Dallas, but when called out or when my opinion is seriously asked for, it's given with 100% candor.

If you don't know, then ask somebody.

Orrrr, its given out with insults and tremendous disrespect. I don't have to ask anybody, I've been a target for those insults already.

:silly:

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Struggled with the Skins?

One blowout in a game that was over at the half.

And the other game?

Sure the Skins won, but to say we struggled with them?

Come on now.

They struggled with the Skins for sure. In a game in Dallas with all sorts of motivation with the Ring of Fame inductions, the Cowboys mustered two FGs and a trick play TD. Even if they won 13-0 (or 16-0 since they missed a very makeable FG if I remember correctly), that's a pretty tight game at home. Then in DC, they were crushed in all aspects of the game.

Those two games would constitute "struggling" to me.

[jthor99]

Ahh i cant i agree with you. As much as im going to feel terrible saying it i really think hes going to have the cowboys really prepared this year.

[HeHateMe]

They struggled with the Skins for sure. In a game in Dallas with all sorts of motivation with the Ring of Fame inductions, the Cowboys mustered two FGs and a trick play TD. Even if they won 13-0 (or 16-0 since they missed a very makeable FG if I remember correctly), that's a pretty tight game at home. Then in DC, they were crushed in all aspects of the game.

Those two games would constitute "struggling" to me.


They completely dominated 56 minutes of the first game.

How they scored is irrelevant, they scored and were up.

Then completely collapsed.

As for the 2nd game, it was over by the half.

So "struggled" isnt really the word to sum up Dallas' efforts vs. Washington this season.

They dominated the great majority of one game, and were completely dominated in the other.

It doesnt matter that it was at home or away, you have to win.

Ring of Honor ceremony or not, again, you have to win.

I don't really look at those things when decided if a team will win or should win or not.

[ArmchairRedskin]

They completely dominated 56 minutes of the first game.

How they scored is irrelevant, they scored and were up.

Then completely collapsed.

As for the 2nd game, it was over by the half.

So "struggled" isnt really the word to sum up Dallas' efforts vs. Washington this season.

They dominated the great majority of one game, and were completely dominated in the other.

It doesnt matter that it was at home or away, you have to win.

Ring of Honor ceremony or not, again, you have to win.

I don't really look at those things when decided if a team will win or should win or not.


What a crock of ****. How in the world do you figure Dallas dominated that game?

One team dominating another would exclude the dominated team winning the game by virtue of the definition of the word dominate. "We dominated for 56 mins" but you guys won the game. :laugh:

I mean your offense was just as inept outside of that "jap play" as ours was outside of the two Moss plays. Your defense may have kept our offense at bay until we decided it was time to take some risks, but our defense kept yours at bay for most of the game and then put the clamps down when the game was on the line. Thems facts.

You can't claim to have dominated anyone if you lost the game.

If you wanna see one team dominating another, take a look at the game at Fedex between the same two teams.

[NewCliche21]

They completely dominated 56 minutes of the first game.

How they scored is irrelevant, they scored and were up.

Then completely collapsed.

As for the 2nd game, it was over by the half.

So "struggled" isnt really the word to sum up Dallas' efforts vs. Washington this season.

They dominated the great majority of one game, and were completely dominated in the other.

It doesnt matter that it was at home or away, you have to win.

Ring of Honor ceremony or not, again, you have to win.

I don't really look at those things when decided if a team will win or should win or not.

I like this post for the most part, but one thing really sticks out: "They." Why are you saying "they" instead of "we?" I can't stand when fans do that. Make it "we" whenever you refer to your team or don't be a fan.

We were losing for 56 minutes, yes, but dominated? 13-0 at home with that induction of the Triplets wasn't exactly dominating. That's struggling.

Again, I really did like your post, but that "They" thing really irked me, especially from someone who clearly loves the Cowboys.

[tr1]

I like this post for the most part, but one thing really sticks out: "They." Why are you saying "they" instead of "we?" I can't stand when fans do that. Make it "we" whenever you refer to your team or don't be a fan.

We were losing for 56 minutes, yes, but dominated? 13-0 at home with that induction of the Triplets wasn't exactly dominating. That's struggling.

Again, I really did like your post, but that "They" thing really irked me, especially from someone who clearly loves the Cowboys.


touche.

[Dirk Diggler]

What a crock of ****. How in the world do you figure Dallas dominated that game?

One team dominating another would exclude the dominated team winning the game by virtue of the definition of the word dominate. "We dominated for 56 mins" but you guys won the game. :laugh:

I mean your offense was just as inept outside of that "jap play" as ours was outside of the two Moss plays. Your defense may have kept our offense at bay until we decided it was time to take some risks, but our defense kept yours at bay for most of the game and then put the clamps down when the game was on the line. Thems facts.

You can't claim to have dominated anyone if you lost the game.

If you wanna see one team dominating another, take a look at the game at Fedex between the same two teams.

Agree. I think that saying Dallas seemingly had control of the game or controlled the first 56 minutes would be a little more accurate.

The two games really had nothing in common.

[CowboysForLife]

I like this post for the most part, but one thing really sticks out: "They." Why are you saying "they" instead of "we?" I can't stand when fans do that. Make it "we" whenever you refer to your team or don't be a fan.

We were losing for 56 minutes, yes, but dominated? 13-0 at home with that induction of the Triplets wasn't exactly dominating. That's struggling.

Again, I really did like your post, but that "They" thing really irked me, especially from someone who clearly loves the Cowboys.

Um, how is that struggling when they're leading?

[jrockster21]

They completely dominated 56 minutes of the first game.

This will kind of echo what others have said, but you are wrong.

If they had dominated the first 56 minutes, it would have been impossible for the Skins to come back in the final 4. The plain and simple truth of the matter is that the Skins defense was on point that game, besides not getting to Bleedsoe. The Cowboys had just as many problems moving the ball on us as we did on them....they just happened to have more success.

They scored on one trick play, and were 2/3 for field goals. When you're leaving points on the table, you're not dominating. For example; in the second game there were plenty of chances for the Dallas D to stop the Skins and we would have settled for a field goal. But instead, even with 30 seconds left in the half and the Skins only tryingto get in field goal range, Cooley breaks a couple tackles and scores his third TD. That, my friend, is domination. When you're trying to simply get 3 points but just can't help to get 7. :laugh:

You Cowboy fans just keep repeating the whole 56 minute domination thing because it helps you deal with getting swept. Keep on thinking that if you want to, but just so you know, you're totally wrong. :)



Um, how is that struggling when they're leading?

I think he meant the Skins were struggling instead of being dominated.

[bubba9497]

the only thing the pokes "dominated" in game one was punting yardage, leading to better field position.

PUNTING

M. McBriar 6 punts 48.2 avg. 3 in/20 58 long

Cowboy scoring drives:

2ND QUARTER
FG Jose Cortez 33 Yd, 11:20. Drive: 7 plays, 16 yards in 3:40.
3RD QUARTER
TD Terry Glenn, 70 Yd pass from Drew Bledsoe (Jose Cortez kick is good), 12:51. Drive: 1 play, 70 yards in 0:35.
4TH QUARTER
FG Jose Cortez 41 Yd, 5:58. Drive: 9 plays, 53 yards in 6:27.

The Cowboys had 90 yards rushing on 29 attempts
Bledsoe was 21/36 for 261 yards 1 TD

The Redskins had 104 yards rushing in 25 attempts
Brunell was 20/34 291 yards 2 TD 1 INT


The Stats were unimpressive for a team who supposedly dominated. The only TD came off a gadget play, which Teams usually run when they can't get in a grove and are struggling.

Despite getting the ball on the Skins 32 all the pokes could do was kick a fg from the 16, driving a whopping 16 yards in 7 plays. The Pokes had good field position all night, but where never able to sustain a drive to score a TD. They never dictated the game, or had control. You don't Punt 6 times, get 1/3 of your passing yards on a gadget play, and rush for a combined total 90 yards if you're dominating.

[whitskins]

As I said to my little sister and my beloved surrounding fans at the outset of the fourth quarter in the second Skins/Cowboys game last year at Fed Ex...

"13-0 in the 4th quarter is not domination... 35-0 in the 4th quarter is domination!!!"

[tr1]

Our defense was solid. I'd have to say our offense was unimpressive for the first 50 minutes or so...but to characterize our win as us being dominated is just dumb.

[Bonef1de]

te only thig the pokes "dominated" n game one was punting yardage, leading to better field position.

PUNTING

M. McBriar 6 punts 48.2 avg. 3 in/20 58 long

Cowboy scoring drives:

2ND QUARTER
FG Jose Cortez 33 Yd, 11:20. Drive: 7 plays, 16 yards in 3:40.
3RD QUARTER
TD Terry Glenn, 70 Yd pass from Drew Bledsoe (Jose Cortez kick is good), 12:51. Drive: 1 play, 70 yards in 0:35.
4TH QUARTER
FG Jose Cortez 41 Yd, 5:58. Drive: 9 plays, 53 yards in 6:27.

The Cowboys had 90 yards rushing on 29 attempts
Bledsoe was 21/36 for 261 yards 1 TD

The Redskins had 104 yards rushing in 25 attempts
Brunell was 20/34 291 yards 2 TD 1 INT


The Stats were unimpressive for a team who supposedly dominated. The only TD came off a gadget play, which Teams usually run when they can't get in a grove and are struggling.

Despite getting the ball on the Skins 32 all the pokes could do was kick a fg from the 16, driving a whopping 16 yards in 7 plays. The Pokes had good field position all night, but where never able to sustain a drive to score a TD. They never dictated the game, or had control. You don't Punt 6 times, get 1/3 of your passing yards on a gadget play, and rush for a combined total 90 yards if you're dominating.


Nice pull on the numbers. :D

Come on trolls, spin baby spin

[mikeyf316]

I have to admit, I sat here and read this entire thread, every word, every post.

People on both sides made some good points, and people on both sides took some cheap shots.

Overall, I think...

Hang on.

I've got a phone call...

...

...

...

Sorry, that was Bill Parcells phoning it in.

:D


*EDIT*
That's was today's minimum recommended dose of sarcasm, provided for your benefit.

[Birdlives]

I have to admit, I sat here and read this entire thread, every word, every post.

People on both sides made some good points, and people on both sides took some cheap shots.

Overall, I think...

Hang on.

I've got a phone call...

...

...

...

Sorry, that was Bill Parcells phoning it in.

:D


*EDIT*
That's was today's minimum recommended dose of sarcasm, provided for your benefit.

I like this one. :D

[Birdlives]

Try getting the NFL ticket, taping the Dallas games (and all other relevant games you see fit), watching them later on and forming your own opinons.

It's done wonders for me.

Watch out Skins fans. He's got every single dallas play on tape and has been watching them incessantly.:rolleyes:

[bubba9497]

They completely dominated 56 minutes of the first game.

How they scored is irrelevant, they scored and were up.

Then completely collapsed.


They dominated the great majority of one game, and were completely dominated in the other.



dom·i·nate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dm-nt)
v. dom·i·nat·ed, dom·i·nat·ing, dom·i·nates
v. tr.

To control, govern, or rule by superior authority or power

To exert a supreme, guiding influence on or over.

To enjoy a commanding, controlling position in.


v. intr.

To have or exert strong authority or mastery.

To be situated in or occupy a position that is more elevated or decidedly superior to others.


you can apply those defenitions to game two


but no one in their wildest homeristics dreams can honestly apply them to game one :doh:

[NewCliche21]

Um, how is that struggling when they're leading?

Again, if they're your team, then say "we," or stop pretending to be a fan.

They were struggling because even after the Redskins couldn't put the ball past the Cowboys 30 for the vast majority of the game the Cowboys STILL were only up 13-0. One gadget play got you a touchdown. That is NOT domination; that is struggling.

The Redskins struggled the week before, barely winning 9-7 over the Bears. We also struggled against Tampa Bay in the playoffs. You can struggle and still win.

The Redskins were dominated once this year, and that was by the Giants. We, however, dominated teams twice: Against the 49er's and against you.

[HeHateMe]

dom·i·nate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dm-nt)
v. dom·i·nat·ed, dom·i·nat·ing, dom·i·nates
v. tr.

To control, govern, or rule by superior authority or power

To exert a supreme, guiding influence on or over.

To enjoy a commanding, controlling position in.


v. intr.

To have or exert strong authority or mastery.

To be situated in or occupy a position that is more elevated or decidedly superior to others.


you can apply those defenitions to game two


but no one in their wildest homeristics dreams can honestly apply them to game one :doh:

For 56 minutes, the Skins did NOTHING on O.

They were dominated, for 56 minutes. Just like I said.

I didnt say the whole game, I said 56 minutes.

[HeHateMe]

Watch out Skins fans. He's got every single dallas play on tape and has been watching them incessantly.:rolleyes:

Wow, good comeback.

You got me.

Keep up the good work sport.

[HeHateMe]

I like this post for the most part, but one thing really sticks out: "They." Why are you saying "they" instead of "we?" I can't stand when fans do that. Make it "we" whenever you refer to your team or don't be a fan.


Again, I really did like your post, but that "They" thing really irked me, especially from someone who clearly loves the Cowboys.

I switch off.

I use they and we.

No rhyme or reason.

[Birdlives]

Wow, good comeback.

You got me.

Keep up the good work sport.

Its about as strong a comeback as you've ever posted.

:silly:

[GeorgeAllen]

WeHateYou HeHateMe. No offense:D

[bubba9497]

For 56 minutes, the Skins did NOTHING on O.

They were dominated, for 56 minutes. Just like I said.

I didnt say the whole game, I said 56 minutes.


I know exactly what you said, and you are WRONG.

The Cowboys lead, had the edge, was winning, had the advantage, but dominating they were not in the least.

how can they be dominating when the Skins had overall better offensive stats? Because they got hundred yards in the two TD drives late in the fourth? But the Fact the Pokes only TD (and 70 yards) came on one play... was dominating :laugh:

I realize you need something to grasp a hold of to make yourself feel better, but exaggerating the truth doesn't make it so.

Also stating the reason the Pokes lost was because they "collasped" ? The fact that the Skins out performed them in the 4th quarter and finally figured out their weakness and exploited it not once but twice.....or the fact the defense held the Pokes in check... had nothing to do with it? :jerk:

You know, no one outside of those wearing blue & silver colored glasses, use the term "dominate" about any part of game one. :laugh:

But what can you expect from a group of fans that proclaim a RB who has never had a 1000 yard season yet, or even played a full season, avg only 4.0 YPC, and only 4 hundred yard games in 21 played (only 1 in 13 played this season) as great, or outstanding, based on 2 or 3 very good games. Hey Trung Canidate had a 200 yard game, and another 190 yard game... but he was hardly anything above mediorce. in his brief career.

but that's another subject... Sorry, I went off on a tangent.

[ArmchairRedskin]

It cracks me up that Cowboys fans somehow find comfort in the "we dominated you for 56 minutes" argument. Remember all the talk of revenge? How there's no way we win twice? Remember Roy getting all mad with his "point blank" statement after the game?

Well not only did we win the second game, we totally dominated the Cowboys. I mean, we made them look like a high school football team. A crappy HS football team at that.

If the Cowboys had dominated us, I could admit it. I'll admit the Giants dominated us that first game.

To compare what the Cowboys did to us the first 56 mins of that game to what the Giants did to us, or we what did to the Cowboys and the Giants both the second time we faced each team, is just ludicrous. It's not even in the same ballpark.

[jrockster21]

For 56 minutes, the Skins did NOTHING on O.

They were dominated, for 56 minutes. Just like I said.

I didnt say the whole game, I said 56 minutes.


HHM....did you even read all the posts before you said that? Are you really that stubborn about this?

Another example of why you're wrong: when a team dominates another one, they put them away, and they've got no chance to win. Roy Williams had that very opportunity in the 4th quarter....he was in perfect position to intercept the ball and pretty much end the game. The ball went right through his hands and hit him square in the face. He dropped the ball, the Skins won the game. That is not domination. Domination is when the ball is tipped, intercepted, and then returned for 41 yards setting up a late field goal attempt. Only the other team is dominating so much that they score ANOTHER touchdown!!

Domination it was not. Not for 56 minutes, not for 55 minutes, not for any amount of time at all.