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View Full Version : New Battlefield Technology and $$$



Jumbo
July-12th-2006, 02:40 PM
We've all been hearing about this latest stuff coming. Some of the work I do is at Ft. Lewis. I see a number of Stryker Brigade folks and they are buzzed about this.

http://www.theolympian.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060712/NEWS/607120372

I am also wowed by the $$$ per soldier this must cost. Of course, like anyone else, I want the troops to have the best, but the reality of the military budget and strategic use of money are equally serious issues for stability of our armed forces and national security also means economic responsibility. So my main question is: is it worth it? For all we talk about money being misused, many of us (me right up there on the list) are loathe to ever suggest cut-backs. Besides obviously wanting our military men and women to have the best, most folks probably want to avoid having anyone think they are "un-patriotic" in general to talk about cutting military cost. Cutting social programs is a lot more PC.

I can be conflicted on this issue. I want state-of-the-art gear, and lots of it, for our armed forces. I have also seen literally criminal levels of waste (some deliberate) and bad decisions made for many reasons less than noble. The sheer dollar volume channeled in some of these directions has me questioning the return for that money. Yet I not only love the gear and planes and armor myself (guy thing I guess), but also seek anything that gives our people an advantage.

But we're in a third-world country fighting in a war for over three years now for all our billions of dollars spent on our military. And this has been money spent on conventional arms and their role, so saying "we could nuke 'em" doesn't really relate to what I'm talking about, though I know its some members favorite policy option. And maybe you are satisfied with just saying something like “it’s our political will and policies that are the problem." While I think that’s a valid area, it is also can be an easy cop-out to at least some extent.

We have capable leaders on the field and the best trained and equipped troops. Is all the money we shovel here being used effectively? Is it necessary? Can we even put the military on a dollar diet if we wanted to? Are the generals and planners just into high-tech toys without regard to their actual strategic worth? I personally know of regularly and deliberately damaging expensive gear in order to not get cutback next time by coming in under budget for retrofitting.

And does any future enemy have two military plans now? Conventional means to fight a weaker foe (N. Korea Regulars vs. S. Korea) and another (urban guerilla-lose the uniforms-take to the hills) for some invading much more powerful foe that offsets their superior firepower? Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq? Russia was partially crippled financially by spending billions to support their war effort while their opponent lived off the land, relied on foreign support, cheap weapons, and guerilla tactics...and won.

Is that enough questions/topics for a thread? :laugh:

zoony
July-12th-2006, 02:52 PM
I am all for the military industrial complex. Although bloated and wasteful, the innovations to come out of that segment have made the private sector billions upon billions.

I don't know how this would even be measured... but I would be willing to bet that the majority of technological and industrial advances made since the 1960s have been spillover from the military industrial complex.

Any discussion about the wastfulness, etc. of that complex should include the above.

It is what continues to give the US it's global competitive economic advantage.

Jumbo
July-12th-2006, 02:59 PM
Good points, zoony. The unlimited funding for technical advances are enormously important in civilian technology and products. How can we ever implement better waste or overun controls? Or are we ok with what we have?

zoony
July-12th-2006, 03:07 PM
Good points, zoony. The unlimited funding for technical advances are enormously important in civilian technology and products. How can we ever implement better waste or overun controls? Or are we ok with what we have?


Even things you would never think about, like XM / Sirius Radio, were developed by the military as a band that could penetrate cloud cover.

And I believe that the internet, cellular telephones, gore tex, and satellite TV all came from what were originally military/nasa/gov applications.


Is there rampant waste? Absolutely. Does the military industrial lobby have too much power? I would never argue that they didn't.

But oddly, the whole ****ty mess seems to work. :)

dfitzo53
July-12th-2006, 03:10 PM
And let's not forget that the Space Program gave us Tang and Postur-pedic beds.

dreamingwolf
July-12th-2006, 03:19 PM
I am all about his technology and would like to see it issued to all combat troops, and eventually I would like to see us have what the marines in alien 2 had.

codeorama
July-12th-2006, 03:22 PM
I am all about his technology and would like to see it issued to all combat troops, and eventually I would like to see us have what the marines in alien 2 had.

A lot of good it did them.... :paranoid:

Jumbo
July-12th-2006, 03:33 PM
I am all about his technology and would like to see it issued to all combat troops, and eventually I would like to see us have what the marines in alien 2 had.


DW, what do you think of some of the guys who suugest instead of tying up x dollars per soldier, we still set higher standards than any one else in th wordl ground force gear-wise but only commit y dollars and triple the size of the force?

Some of the WWII & Korea guys in D.C. and out here believe this would be better strategy, and that the U.S soldier back then was every bit the effective fighter that today's soldier is. They comment that our opponents sicne Vietnam are less well-equipped than the Germans of Japanese were and stiil give us a helluva lot of trouble so is this $$$ being used to really make that much of a difference in terms of military outcomes?

dreamingwolf
July-12th-2006, 03:37 PM
DW, what do you think of some of the guys who suugest instead of tying up x dollars per soldier, we still set higher standards than any one else in th wordl ground force gear-wise but only commit y dollars and triple the size of the force?

Some of the WWII & Korea guys in D.C. and out here believe this would be better strategy, and that the U.S soldier back then was every bit the effective fighter that today's soldier is. They comment that our opponents sicne Vietnam are less well-equipped than the Germans of Japanese were and stiil give us a helluva lot of trouble so is this $$$ being used to really make that much of a difference in terms of military outcomes?

I am totally a Rummy guy on this one, Im all about droids, drones, and all things high tech. The easiest thing to revert back to is a large low tech force, but a small high tech force is easier to maintain and less clumsy to use in policing actions. I doubt highly that we will ever be in a major conflict again, Iraq is pretty much the biggest we will see for a very long time.

Jumbo
July-12th-2006, 04:03 PM
Im all about droids, drones, and all things high tech

Whatever we may agree or disagree on in the futrre, we will always be 100% on this as a personal preference :laugh:

DjTj
July-12th-2006, 04:09 PM
This seems appropriate for this thread:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0711/csmimg/p3b.jpg

If the experiment, dubbed SPHERES, sounds like science fiction, perhaps that's because it was inspired in part by it. While working on formation "flying" for satellites, Dr. Miller, director of MIT's Space Systems Laboratory, challenged his students to build prototypes.

"I rented the first 'Star Wars' movie and showed the class the scene where Luke is practicing the use of the Force with a floating droid," he explains. "I said: 'I want three of those. How do we start doing this?' "

The result: spheres the size of bowling balls crammed with computers, position sensors, and tiny thrusters made to maneuver with precision.

After years of testing - including trials aboard a NASA jet whose flight path allows occupants a brief experience of weightlessness - the first of three spheres arrived in April aboard a Russian Soyuz spacecraft. A second arrived with Discovery, currently docked at the International Space Station, and the third is slated to arrive on Discovery in December.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0711/p03s04-usgn.html

...all paid for by NASA and DARPA...

dreamingwolf
July-12th-2006, 04:25 PM
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3661

A battalion of 120 military robots is to be fitted with swarm intelligence software to enable them to mimic the organised behaviour of insects.

The project, which received funding this week from the US Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA), is aimed at developing ways to perform missions such as minesweeping and search and rescue with minimum intervention from human operators.


===========================


This BBC article is about SWORDS(the combat variant of the TALON), even has a nifty video.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4199935.stm

Im such a geek. I love this stuff, cant wait to see what the next generation of droid soldier will be like.

Jumbo
July-12th-2006, 04:58 PM
Chrichton's "Prey" was all about swarm intelligence (well, a polular sci-tech-adventure writer's version)...pretty cool...

Thiebear
July-12th-2006, 05:01 PM
The plasma weapon:
It produces the same electricity in 1000/second as the entire united states...
awesome....

Prosperity
July-12th-2006, 06:16 PM
more tech fewer wars, the plasma weapons thiebear talks about sounds like bs. The entire electricity of the US? Ummm lol no.

Thiebear
July-12th-2006, 06:41 PM
more tech fewer wars, the plasma weapons thiebear talks about sounds like bs. The entire electricity of the US? Ummm lol no.

Yes Liberty, I just make it up, nothing to see here, please dispurse...

Prosperity
July-12th-2006, 06:47 PM
you are a really weird guy

Xameil
July-13th-2006, 05:59 AM
A lot of good it did them.... :paranoid:

Hey Sigourney Weaver kicked their butt ;)


The plasma weapon:
It produces the same electricity in 1000/second as the entire united states...
awesome....

I'd like to see it. I use plasma for chemical analysis, and I'd love to see how they use the RF to control the plasma stream. Is it only at the nozzle of the gun where the plasma is formed? does it shoot out an RF along with the plasma? What gas is used to produce the plasma? and it must be kinda like having an uber-flame thrower, so how practical is it?