For the Brunell supporters, what would it take for you to support his benching?

[Painkiller]

For the Brunell supporters, of which I am one. What would it take for you to support his benching? At this point, I would only support his benching when/if we are OUT of the division race, and the playoff picture. If that should happen, then let Campbell go ahead and start, and get his growing pains out of the way. I think as long as there is a chance we make the playoffs and/or win the division. Mark is STILL our best option, due to his experience.

I am confident that we will see a much improved offense by the end of the season, with Mark at the helm. Clinton returning this weekend, plus the offense continuing to improve with Saunders system will get things back on track. It's entirely too early to jump ship on the season yet.

[CM916]

Serious injury or signing Peyton Manning.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Not really a Brunell supporter, but if we go 2-6 like it looks now then I'd say there is no choice.

[Stuckinphilly1]

I'm a supporter as well but he looked pretty bad in D. I know it's only one game but the more I think of the "it takes a year to learn the offense" quote the more I think---then why is here starting???? He isn't going to be here next year. What happens if JC isn't the savior we all think he's going to be, with the all-star cast of players we have to go deep into the playoffs. We can't wait until next year to find out we don't have a QB to lead them their. If he looks as dazed and confused as he did in Dallas this week I say we HAVE TO see what we have in JC. It might be giving up on the season, or he could come out like gang busters but we have to see what we got against NFL competition to make the right move this offseason if needed.

This was the worse, most regretful post I've made!!!

[Art McDonough]

If Gibbs and Saunders say someone else should start, then I would defer to their judgment. Like has been said so many times on this forum, we outsiders have no clue how much of this mess is because of poor play at the QB position.

[LoudMouth12thMan]

I have supported Brunell since he came into the Chicago game last year. I supported him through thick and thin. It would take a piss poor performance against a team like Houston to convince me that it is time for a change. I think that is reasonable b/c he should be able to expose weaknesses in Houston's defense. My fear is that we will run Clinton a bunch, Mark will throw very few passes, and it will only mask Mark's true identity which is that of a washed up qb. I have never felt this way until this week. I think he has something to prove to himself, his team, and his loyal fanbase. I'm pulling or ya' #8. Prove us all wrong!
HTTR!

[TURKEYTALKER]

untill I see the defence stop a 3rd and long I'm not worried about the QB

[Fifty Gut]

no improvement by week 5

[Painkiller]

It would take a piss poor performance against a team like Houston to convince me that it is time for a change. I think that is reasonable b/c he should be able to expose weaknesses in Houston's defense. My fear is that we will run Clinton a bunch, Mark will throw very few passes, and it will only mask Mark's true identity which is that of a washed up qb. HTTR!


This is a very real possibility. Clinton could come back and tear it up this week, give the Texan defense something else to think about. Then Mark tears them up when they stack the box. With Clinton back in the running game, it should give Mark some time to get more comfortable in the passing game. With the passing game, I think less is more.

[CPortJGibbs89]

I'm a supporter as well but he looked pretty bad in D. I know it's only one game but the more I think of the "it takes a year to learn the offense" quote the more I think---then why is here starting???? He isn't going to be here next year. What happens if JC isn't the savior we all think he's going to be, with the all-star cast of players we have to go deep into the playoffs. We can't wait until next year to find out we don't have a QB to lead them their. If he looks as dazed and confused as he did in Dallas this week I say we HAVE TO see what we have in JC. It might be giving up on the season, or he could come out like gang busters but we have to see what we got against NFL competition to make the right move this offseason if needed.

This was the worse, most regretful post I've made!!! I am a Brunell suporter for right now as well. But I agree with exactly what your saying. If it takes a year for Brunell to learn and then he is gone next year then we start over again with Campbell and find out if hes the real deal. I just feel like its a lose lose situation right now. Part of me thinks we throw away the season and all of the talent we brough in with starting campbell, the other part of me feels Brunell is a veteran and will make smarter decisions. But what would you rather have skins fans, an up and down season and possible playoff appearance with Brunell and start all over next year with Campbell, or throw Campbell in if Brunell continues to struggle and find out what we have in Campbell. The other part of me wonders how will the players we have in there prime here feel about sacrificing there season for Campbell to get his shot. So many questions so little answers. I just like many other redskins fans just want a franchise quarterback for once. Sorry for the long reply but I have just been thinking about this situation for awhile....

[dlwredskins]

For the Brunell supporters, of which I am one. What would it take for you to support his benching? At this point, I would only support his benching when/if we are OUT of the division race, and the playoff picture. If that should happen, then let Campbell go ahead and start, and get his growing pains out of the way. I think as long as there is a chance we make the playoffs and/or win the division. Mark is STILL our best option, due to his experience.

I am confident that we will see a much improved offense by the end of the season, with Mark at the helm. Clinton returning this weekend, plus the offense continuing to improve with Saunders system will get things back on track. It's entirely too early to jump ship on the season yet.

I am a huge supporter of Mark Brunell and I whole heartly agree with you 1000%... he is our best option. KEEP THE FAITH REDSKIN NATION....HAIL

[Park City Skins]

Give the best chances to succeed. A consistant, successful running game. Good, consistant pass blocking. Receivers who are open as a result of the first statement. If he still plays like he did at times in the Dallas game, with all that going well, then I may say it's time to have him sit. Mind you, I'd have to see him do that a couple of games. That or if he is obviously playing hurt and just not sayin'. Then definately.

[AsburySkinsFan]

I know it's only one game but the more I think of the "it takes a year to learn the offense" quote the more I think---then why is here starting???? He isn't going to be here next year.
This is the same question that I keep asking. That and why did we draft a QB if we're not going to use that QB? If Campbell is that bad then trade him or cut him otherwise you gotta look at starting the boy sometime this season if we are going to make a run next year. If Brunell starts all this year *gulp*:twitch: and Campbell plays in 2007 and if it proves that indeed it does take a year to learn the offense then that puts us in 2008 before we are planning a serious run. I don't know about ya'll but that seems like an awfully long way away. BTW, how many years is Gibbs with us?


This was the worse, most regretful post I've made!!!
I know how you feel. I hate coming down on Brunell, because #1 he's a Redskin, and #2 he helped get us to the playoffs last year. It makes me sick thinking about my team this way, but I want to see our future, because its gotta come sooner or later. And I'd just rather it be sooner.

[Skins11]

Give the best chances to succeed. A consistant, successful running game.

Brunell should be able to do better than putrid without a successful running game. For example, he should have the ability to actually complete some passes and get first downs in non-garbage time. Otherwise, what are we paying him for exactly?

[Jay Master Jay]

Joe Gibbs to bench him

[Park City Skins]

Brunell should be able to do better than putrid without a successful running game. For example, he should have the ability to actually complete some passes and get first downs in non-garbage time. Otherwise, what are we paying him for exactly?
You may want to pay attention to what else I said about Mark's play and then quote me and give a different opinion. He did complete some passes. He threw away a few when he had nobody to throw to. Took several of the sacks when the oline and the running backs said "Look out!". He also threw several bad passes, threw a couple a little earl, imho, after it seemed like he got hurt. Again, take all of what I said and try again.

[Painkiller]

It's just to early in the season to really make any significant changes to the starting lineup. Yes, we are 0-2, but several teams have started the season 2-0 and ended up going nowhere in the long term. Remember a few years ago, when the Bills started out 2-0 with two blow out wins, and everybody jumped on their band wagon. They didn't even make the playoffs that season.

[WVUforREDSKINS]

He would have to throw costly interceptions and cost us the game at Houston. Then I would not want him on the field the rest of the year. I think with Portis back that will help him so much. I think Portis is one of the best blocking backs in the league. Duckett and Betts couldn't block worth a **** and thats the reason he got pressure on most occasions.

[dizzinator53]

ZERO passing TD's in Houston.

[DCsportsfan53]

I'm a supporter as well but he looked pretty bad in D. I know it's only one game but the more I think of the "it takes a year to learn the offense" quote the more I think---then why is here starting???? He isn't going to be here next year. What happens if JC isn't the savior we all think he's going to be, with the all-star cast of players we have to go deep into the playoffs. We can't wait until next year to find out we don't have a QB to lead them their. If he looks as dazed and confused as he did in Dallas this week I say we HAVE TO see what we have in JC. It might be giving up on the season, or he could come out like gang busters but we have to see what we got against NFL competition to make the right move this offseason if needed.

This was the worse, most regretful post I've made!!!

That's all well and dandy but part of one year won't be enough to evaluate Campbell, anyways. Even if he came in and struggled mightily it would be too early to think about drafting another top prospect or going after one in FA. To me, it would take Gibbs wanting him out of the game most likely but if he continues to put on Dallas caliber performances and play scared through week 6 or 8, then it's probably time for Campbell.

[bravehawk64]

:cheers: sorry got to go only this week ,we can not let the other teams in our div, get to far ahead,0-3 would be a heartbreak,just joined the the board and i am learning but im a diehard skins fan, peace my brothers

[Jumbo]

I’m not a fan of simplistic labels for complex matters, but overall I'd go with Brunell supporter, and I still disagree with much of the contrary position's points made about the past. But, as Jay says, if Gibbs benched him now, I'd be fine with it. In fact, right now, though I can appreciate the arguments for keeping him in (knowing many others can't), I'd prefer to see the roles switch now, and start Jason after next week. But I don't know as much as the guys in charge, period, and defer to them from an intelligent perspective, not a blind one.

My hope is they realize that the fan base at large (best I can tell) would favor a switch to the point where we're willing to lose the season if we can believe it's for the future gain of developing our franchise QB (or seeing if we have one). I can't cay how much they count concern over fan support, but if they risk next year in order to look a little better this year just to keep the consumer happy, I think that's a bad business choice. Even getting to the first round of the pay-offs with Mark this year will leave a very disgruntled fan base unless we go further and he looks really good during that time, whether that's logical or not. Finishing 8-8 with Jason at the helm looking competitive 80% of the time will leave a more "gruntled" fan base, in my estimation, with more positive outlook for ‘07. So if they think in such ways when making their decisions, I hope they read us correctly.

[Drunken Master III]

Forget this bench him now... Im through supporting this guy. He is washed up.

[RedskinsFan06]

Until we are out of the playoff race, he's gotta stay in.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Finishing 8-8 with Jason at the helm looking competitive 80% of the time will leave a more "gruntled" fan base, in my estimation, with more positive outlook for ‘07.

I can so much better live with 8-8 with Campbell at the helm than I can live with 8-8 and Brunell in charge. Once this year is a bust (like the next couple weeks will show) then the trigger will have to be pulled. IMO we need to get ready for a long season. And be ready to support Campbell, Gibbs, & Saunders for as long as it takes once the decision is made.

[bubba9497]

I'm a Gibbs supporter

if & when he makes the call

[Painkiller]

He would have to throw costly interceptions and cost us the game at Houston. Then I would not want him on the field the rest of the year. I think with Portis back that will help him so much. I think Portis is one of the best blocking backs in the league. Duckett and Betts couldn't block worth a **** and thats the reason he got pressure on most occasions.


Agree wholeheartedly. It will be hard to defend Mark if he goes out and throws INT's, and stinks up the joint against Houston. I really don't think that's going to happen though.

[monkforhall]

I’m not a fan of simplistic labels for complex matters, but overall I'd go with Brunell supporter, and I still disagree with much of the contrary position's points made about the past. But, as Jay says, if Gibbs benched him now, I'd be fine with it. In fact, right now, though I can appreciate the arguments for keeping him in (knowing many others can't), I'd prefer to see the roles switch now, and start Jason after next week. But I don't know as much as the guys in charge, period, and defer to them from an intelligent perspective, not a blind one.

My hope is they realize that the fan base at large (best I can tell) would favor a switch to the point where we're willing to lose the season if we can believe it's for the future gain of developing our franchise QB (or seeing if we have one). I can't cay how much they count concern over fan support, but if they risk next year in order to look a little better this year just to keep the consumer happy, I think that's a bad business choice. Even getting to the first round of the pay-offs with Mark this year will leave a very disgruntled fan base unless we go further and he looks really good during that time, whether that's logical or not. Finishing 8-8 with Jason at the helm looking competitive 80% of the time will leave a more "gruntled" fan base, in my estimation, with more positive outlook for ‘07. So if they think in such ways when making their decisions, I hope they read us correctly.


That's an amazing thought, and something I have always wondered. Do you think the team tried extra hard to keep Lavar in the game, seeing how many paying customers were wearing his jerseys? I do often wonder if they care. I think they should, a little bit anyway.

[Jay Master Jay]

I blame our defense more then Brunell. At least Mark has done something for us what about Carter and Archeleta? THey got pick contracts I havent seen any sacks or interceptions but you guys what to get our QB. Who doesnt have the best player on our team to handoff to?? Let's get ready for Houston and stop the BS already.

[jnhay]

For the Brunell supporters, of which I am one. What would it take for you to support his benching? At this point, I would only support his benching when/if we are OUT of the division race, and the playoff picture. If that should happen, then let Campbell go ahead and start, and get his growing pains out of the way. I think as long as there is a chance we make the playoffs and/or win the division. Mark is STILL our best option, due to his experience.

I am confident that we will see a much improved offense by the end of the season, with Mark at the helm. Clinton returning this weekend, plus the offense continuing to improve with Saunders system will get things back on track. It's entirely too early to jump ship on the season yet.
2 or 3 more games. Really, whatever the coaches say is fine with me ultimately.

[fdarugar]

after a terrible performance in texas, i will quit my shananigans.

[s0crates]

I will only support Brunell's benching if we are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. As long as we have a chance, we have to go with the experienced QB.

[Thiebear]

If he looks bad against Houston WITH Portis in...

[tvan]

I would support his benching when Joe thinks it's the right move. Who are any of us to think we know more the the coaching staff.
If any of you do then I look forward to watching you call the shots from the sidelines soon. :laugh:

[CBMGreatOne]

I was in full support of Brunell to start this season. I was worried about the bad preseason, but I was willing to give him a free pass. I was worried about him after Minnesota, but I thought our defense not getting off the field was a bigger problem. I am extra worried about him now after doing exactly nothing in 60 minutes against Dallas.

If we lose to Houston this week, and Brunell has a bad game in the process (the two seem to probably go hand in hand) I will be back in gratuitous, open Brunell hatred mode. I will curse the television screen for every snap that he takes while we are 0-3, should that situation arise.

Christopher Harris of Yahoosports writes:

"Brunell also would seem to have a sweet matchup against the Texans, but my heavens he's been dreadful. I've been saying it all summer, and I'm not stopping now: the Redskins would immediately be better with Jason Campbell at the helm."

If there's one point to criticize Gibbs on, it's that he is too slow in changing the lineup. We stuck with Brunell in 04, he panned out ever so slightly in 05 before disappearing completely in week 17 and staying gone through the playoffs, and this year he has looked like the bum that he has been for about 65% of his tenure as a Redskin.

If we had Portis back, Brunell would immediately get 100% better, but still not good enough to beat playoff defenses. We need someone with legit physical tools to keep good defenses honest. Brunell is not that someone.

[jnhay]

If I can, I'd like to add the flipside to this topic.

What will it take for you guys who want Brunell benched to change your opinion?

[gibbszgawd]

coach Gibbs benching MB:notworthy

[CBMGreatOne]

I would support his benching when Joe thinks it's the right move. Who are any of us to think we know more the the coaching staff.
If any of you do then I look forward to watching you call the shots from the sidelines soon.

I don't think the issue is whether we know more than the coaching staff. For the most part, I think even those who want Brunell benched have the same pragmatic point of view as Gibbs and co. Gibbs just wants to play this situation conservatively until such an approach proves conclusively inneffective. I understand the strategy... it worked last year, we stayed with experience and we fought through Brunell's physical shortcomings and played efficient football. At the end of the day though, I just don't think this offense has enough upside with Brunell at the helm to win a super bowl.

Gibbs knows that once you move to Campbell, there's essentially no turning back. He's afraid of totally losing the team if they make the move and he struggles. Ultimately, I believe that Gibbs will wait too long to make the switch, as he did in 2004 and we'll miss the playoffs (which probably would have happened anyway), but he's gonna play it safe until the season is pragmatically over.

I disagree with Gibbs, but I don't think I know more than him.

[CBMGreatOne]

What will it take for you guys who want Brunell benched to change your opinion?

It starts with a good game, and a team win, against Houston. That earns him one week of reprieve. If he can follow that up with a win at home against Jacksonville, or at least a gutsy performance (not by Gibbs's standards, lol), he'll earn my trust again for a time.

[Buck812]

If he looks bad against Houston WITH Portis in...


My fear is that we go to Houston and Saunders and Gibbs are able to protect Brunnell or hide his weaknesses. They put him in the situation where he doesnt really have to compete and he has one of those 11-19, 145 yards, the offense scores 24 point games and all is well in Redskin land for another week untill Jacksonville. Then we get right back to having these bench Brunnell discussions wondering why it hasnt been done and what will it take.

[jnhay]

It starts with a good game, and a team win, against Houston. That earns him one week of reprieve. If he can follow that up with a win at home against Jacksonville, or at least a gutsy performance (not by Gibbs's standards, lol), he'll earn my trust again for a time.
I agree. Actually, I don't think Brunell has to have great games for a lot of people to stop talking. If we win 2 straight, I think a lot of people would go back to the "If we're winning with him, that's all that matters" mentality.

[portisizzle]

If Gibbs and Saunders say someone else should start, then I would defer to their judgment. Like has been said so many times on this forum, we outsiders have no clue how much of this mess is because of poor play at the QB position.

[Cali Boi]

What I notice about Brunell is that everybody has to play perfect for him to look good and that's not posible for 16 games. We need a qb who can put the O on his back and make things happen sometimes even if it's just a 9 play drive and punt that eat up the clock. We need to look at the facts Campbell has been a winner everywhere he played I'm looking on the bright side I believe he will be a winner here!

[mangan]

In Gibbs I trust.....I am here to support the team...whatever the decision by the coaches....they didnt get to their level of coaching by no tknowing what the hell they were doing.......we will be fine...I just hope it is soon enough....I anticipated a slow start with the new "O".....I believe that is the real problem so far this year........not so sure we needed to bring in Saunders..........we were doing well w/o him.....

[alcorleone]

I would like to know what Brunell has done in any of his time with us to make anyone believe he is the best option. All the attributes that was suppose to make him a better choice than Ramsey mobility, decision making, experience, etc are either gone or a non factor at this point. The only thing I can see he has is experience. Decision making in this offense requires you know the offense, advantage Collins. As far as mobility, arm strength, etc, advantage Campbell.

I was a Ramsey supporter but that's besides the point because he's in the gang green now. With Brunell at the helm 100 yard passing days (when it counts) have become the norm. We get over 200 yards and it has been a great day. I won't say he is the total cause of our losses but I will say he has been a major, major contributor. To say give him more time is ridiculous. The very reason he was brought in is as a stop gap.

Is he really teaching Campbell anything? Is the team better with him than with one of the other two quarterbacks at the helm? That is truly hard to believe looking at the stats.

[CBMGreatOne]

One thing to remember though. A lot of QBs have done well as first year starters in their second year in the NFL.

Most notable second year players to have very good seasons:
Ben Roethlisberger
Tom Brady
Carson Palmer
Peyton Manning
Eli Manning
Michael Vick
Donovan McNabb

Campbell looks like he has a heck of a shot to be the real deal to me. We used a first round pick on him, and Brunell looks like a bum. I trust the coaching staff to install the best system and keep players in line, but in terms of making this move in a timely fashion, I'm not optimistic.

During the Monday night week 1 broadcast, ESPN reported that Brad Childress benched Dwight Smith because he was trying to create a "culture of accountability." That reminded me so much of what we have with Gibbs here. During our run to the playoffs last year you could tell that everyone on defense was as pumped up as possible on every play to play for this team. You didn't know who was going to come up huge, but it didn't matter. Someone was always going to step up and play.

This kind of atmosphere is possible in Washington because players know Gibbs is about football first, and he has a commitment to emphasizing character as much as quality of play.

Last year I had Gibbs wrong on the Lavar Arrington situation. I thought he was being unnecessarily stubborn in continuing to bench him. I was wrong, and I was wrong for the very reasons stated above. No player is bigger than the team, Lavar was the more talented player, but he wouldn't necessarily have made the defense better. The guys who break the chain of command are liabilities, and guys you lose your locker room because of. Lavar seems like he was probably that guy.

Brunell is the anti-Lavar. Gibbs knows that he is going 110% on every play. Beyond that, Gibbs knows that he has leadership qualities that he can't possibly trust to see the same in Campbell. Brunell really wants us to win, and he fights his guts out every week. He's earned Gibbs's respect and ours. It'd be very hard for Gibbs to bench him hastily in any kind of diplomatically sound way. I know we'd all love to see it, but it might change the locker room atmosphere irreparably, and Gibbs doesn't want to have to risk it until he feels he has to.

[paloosa]

It doesn't take much for these type of discussions to pop up. Look at what happened before the Dallas game. The talk was about who was going to bench their QB first. Bledsoe or Brunell. Both over the hill and two young ones waiting in the wings. Romo and Campbell. Dallas is 1-1 and we are 0-2 but the reality is that the Cowboys aren't any better off than we are. They beat us and really that is all that matters to their fans. Beating your arch rivals and finishing above them in the division and everything else is gravy. Tony Romo seems to be the future in Dallas and Jason Campbell is the future here in DC. Bledsoe bought himself two weeks of no "We need to replace Bledsoe" Talk in Dallas. So why we do that here in Redskin Nation don't be surprise when you here it in a couple more weeks in Dallas. Parcells is doing the same thing in Dallas as Gibbs is doing here in DC. Both coaches are not ready to pull the trigger and replace their veteran QB for an unproven backup. But how long do both of these coaches wait is the issue everyone in DC and Dallas will continue to ask if these two teams continue to struggle. Dallas didn't exactly look outstanding that game against us so all you Dallas fans on here don't think you are SB bound because your team isn't a weel oiled machine either. Sorry had to put that in. No offense but a very true statement.

[bbuzz1962]

Losing to the Texans would be the final straw. Their would be a coup if he wasn't benched after 0-3. I just don't think the team would recover from 0-3.

[AsburySkinsFan]

If I can, I'd like to add the flipside to this topic.

What will it take for you guys who want Brunell benched to change your opinion?

What would it take for me to change my mind? An awful lot really, he would have to put up some major performance numbers through this next stretch of 6 games: Texans, Jags, Giants, Colts, Titans, Cowboys. We would have to come out of this stretch with no more than 2 losses that would put us 4-4, at that point I would be quiet but my position wouldn't change. For my position to change he would have to show the ability to take the team deep, very deep into the playoffs. The performance would have to be so good that it would be worth it to right off next year as a re-building training year for Campbell. My reasoning for this is simple; if we aren't going to go deep into the playoffs then what are we doing wasting time, when we could be investing this season into Jason Campbell? aka "The QB of the Future"

[AsburySkinsFan]

What I notice about Brunell is that everybody has to play perfect for him to look good and that's not posible for 16 games. We need a qb who can put the O on his back and make things happen sometimes even if it's just a 9 play drive and punt that eat up the clock. We need to look at the facts Campbell has been a winner everywhere he played I'm looking on the bright side I believe he will be a winner here!

The title you are looking for with this criteria is: FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK, like Carson, Peyton, Brady (gags), and possibly McNabb :puke:

[Smurf85]

Not really a Brunell supporter, but if we go 2-6 like it looks now then I'd say there is no choice.


Okay this is how it will be.

Vikings- L

Cowboys-L

Texans-W

Jags-L

Giants-L

Titans-W

Colts-L


We will be 2-5 going into the bye week.I believe JC will get most of the reps on the bye week.Then Gibbs will start him against the Cowboys after the bye week.

[AzSkinsFan63]

I am confident that we will see a much improved offense by the end of the season, with Mark at the helm. Clinton returning this weekend, plus the offense continuing to improve with Saunders system will get things back on track. It's entirely too early to jump ship on the season yet.

I agree..It can't get much worse offensively..

The real question will that improved offense be good enough with Brunell?
the answer I believe is no.

[chesapeakehog]

Joe Gibbs to bench him\:applause:

[AzSkinsFan63]

One thing to remember though. A lot of QBs have done well as first year starters in their second year in the NFL.

Most notable second year players to have very good seasons:
Ben Roethlisberger
Tom Brady
Carson Palmer
Peyton Manning
Eli Manning
Michael Vick
Donovan McNabb



Exactly...the only difference here is that it wasn't a new offense for them on their second year.