Redskins "Prevent Offense" running the ball is not the answer!

[ST#21willbreaku]

I know how much everyone wants the Redskins to RUN the Ball, but please hear me out.

The Redskins prevent offense and non-aggressive nature will not work with this team. Joe Gibbs and Al Saunders think when they go up 7-0 in the First Quarter they can just try to sit on it for the rest of the game. Yes, this style can work but only if you have a top notch defense (we don't) where teams score 10-13 points a game against you. ALA... Baltimore Ravens/Denver Broncos/Bears/Chargers. They are able to play the Prevent Offense.

Primarily a run team, it is very tough to put up 30 points. If we are going to allow 20+ points a game, an aggressive aerial attack is a must. There is not enough time in a game for Portis to score 30 by himself. Tom Brady, Mcnabb, Peyton Manning are capable. These teams can get away with having an average defense by being able to score in 2 minutes or less.

So, for all you experts out there that say we have to run Portis 30 times a game to win, I challenge you to name one team ever that was successful running the ball 30+ times a game with an average Defense??????

[Zazzaro703]

The thing is though when a Gibbs team runs the ball at least 30 times he is something like 100-11. Def not the accurate record but its something close to that. RUN PORTIS RUN

[Walking Deadman]

Well,
had we run the ball more vs. Ten after we were up 14-3.
We would have kept them off the field and won the game.

We have to run the ball today. If only to keep Manning off the field.
We WILL NOT win a shoot-out vs. the Colts today.

So, we have to pound the ball with CP/LB/TJD, hope the D slows the Colts down and get a few turnovers. Let Mark throw 14-15 passes (mostly play action or screens to Moss) and win.

The pass-happy style may work vs. other teams down the stretch but what we have today and who we're playing today WE HAVE TO RUN THE BALL.

[DieselPwr44]

I challenge you to name one team ever that was successful running the ball 30+ times a game with an average Defense??????
Any team Marty Schottenheimer has ever coached.

[ST#21willbreaku]

The thing is though when a Gibbs team runs the ball at least 30 times he is something like 100-11. Def not the accurate record but its something close to that. RUN PORTIS RUN

Yes, but all those times w/ stellar Defense. We don't have that anymore

[authentic]

the thing about running the ball is that eventually you will tire out the front 7. If we can gain some momentum with steady rush yards during the 1st half and get a couple scores, then it will set up the pass later on in the game. Actually this should be one of our major advantages for this game against their small defense. I don't know why you go away from your strength.

[ST#21willbreaku]

Any team Marty Schottenheimer has ever coached.

Marty teams always have great defense. I agree it works only if you have a great Defense. What is San Diego's defense ranked this year?? #1

[skinnyles]

At least if we run 30+ and lose we can hold our heads up high and say, "we played REDSKINS FOOTBALL"!!!!! HTTR

[Walking Deadman]

ST,
I look at it this way:
If we play a shoot out game with the Colts, we'll lose. Period.
They have a better team than we do in that scenario.

QB
Manning vs Brunell- That is a no-brainer.

#1 WR
Harrison vs Moss- styles are different but I'd call it a draw.

#2 WR
Wayne vs Lloyd- being Mark doesn't look for him Wayne clearly has the advantage.

See we lose. Probably a 35-27 type of game.
Now if we run the ball, keep Manning contained off the field. Get some breaks and use Mark to make the occasional Big Play, we might be able to sneak out of Indy with a close win.

[ST#21willbreaku]

ST,
I look at it this way:
If we play a shoot out game with the Colts, we'll lose. Period.
They have a better team than we do in that scenario.

QB
Manning vs Brunell- That is a no-brainer.

#1 WR
Harrison vs Moss- styles are different but I'd call it a draw.

#2 WR
Wayne vs Lloyd- being Mark doesn't look for him Wayne clearly has the advantage.

See we lose. Probably a 35-27 type of game.
Now if we run the ball, keep Manning contained off the field. Get some breaks and use Mark to make the occasional Big Play, we might be able to sneak out of Indy with a close win.

Yes, but, you can count on Indy putting up 30 on our defense. We cannot score 30 with just a run game. We need some big plays. The key to this game is getting some big plays.

[roanoker]

Ball control, keep it out of Peyton's hands; pound the rock, pound the rock...

[Monte51Coleman]

Name me any team that runs the ball 30+ times that is not successful.

[ST#21willbreaku]

Name me any team that runs the ball 30+ times that is not successful.

Yes, I agree, BUT those teams who are able to run it like that have great Defenses. Look at Tampa Bay this year defense stinks and they cannot run the ball. They keep trying, but they stink. They are a run first team.

[Walking Deadman]

Yes, but, you can count on Indy putting up 30 on our defense. We cannot score 30 with just a run game. We need some big plays. The key to this game is getting some big plays.

Not if you keep them off the field.
Not if the Colts can't stop the run and they're worn out.

[DieselPwr44]

Yes, I agree, BUT those teams who are able to run it like that have great Defenses. Look at Tampa Bay this year defense stinks and they cannot run the ball. They keep trying, but they stink. They are a run first team.
Tampa can't run the ball because their Oline stinks.

[jnhay]

I know how much everyone wants the Redskins to RUN the Ball, but please hear me out.

The Redskins prevent offense and non-aggressive nature will not work with this team. Joe Gibbs and Al Saunders think when they go up 7-0 in the First Quarter they can just try to sit on it for the rest of the game. Yes, this style can work but only if you have a top notch defense (we don't) where teams score 10-13 points a game against you. ALA... Baltimore Ravens/Denver Broncos/Bears/Chargers. They are able to play the Prevent Offense.

Primarily a run team, it is very tough to put up 30 points. If we are going to allow 20+ points a game, an aggressive aerial attack is a must. There is not enough time in a game for Portis to score 30 by himself. Tom Brady, Mcnabb, Peyton Manning are capable. These teams can get away with having an average defense by being able to score in 2 minutes or less.

So, for all you experts out there that say we have to run Portis 30 times a game to win, I challenge you to name one team ever that was successful running the ball 30+ times a game with an average Defense??????
You forgot about time of possession. The best defense is to keep the opposing offense off the field. We need to drain the clock and capitalize on opportunities because just trying to fire it downfield will lead to more 3 and outs and will not help keep our defense fresh. We need them to be as fresh as they can be.

[Monte51Coleman]

Yes, I agree, BUT those teams who are able to run it like that have great Defenses. Look at Tampa Bay this year defense stinks and they cannot run the ball. They keep trying, but they stink. They are a run first team.

I don't believe it's that simple.

If you run the ball you control the clock. If you control the clock the opposing offense in not on the field as much. If the opposing offense is not on the field as much they won't score as much.

Running the ball and controlling the clock will, more often than not, result in making your defense look better.

[ST#21willbreaku]

I don't believe it's that simple.

If you run the ball you control the clock. If you control the clock the opposing offense in not on the field as much. If the opposing offense is not on the field as much they won't score as much.

Running the ball and controlling the clock will, more often than not, result in making your defense look better.

Good Point, but, fact of the matter is that opposing offenses will be on the field. If they score 21-35 points, which all it takes is 4 to 5 possessions we cannot compete simply by pounding the football. We would need big strikes quickly just to stay in the game. I don't think Brunnell is capable of that.

[SkinsFTW]

Yes, I agree, BUT those teams who are able to run it like that have great Defenses. Look at Tampa Bay this year defense stinks and they cannot run the ball. They keep trying, but they stink. They are a run first team.

You don't get it.

Teams (like the Bucs) that can't run the ball punt and never get to 30 carries. Their great defense ends up being on the field for 35-40 minutes of the game and then their defense isn't that good. Our defense would at least be average if we held onto the ball for 35-40 minutes of the game but we haven't, the other team has.

You give the other team 3-4 more chances on offense during the game and it ends up being the 40-50 yard difference between being a 22-23ish ranked defense and being a 7-8th ranked defense.

[ST#21willbreaku]

You forgot about time of possession. The best defense is to keep the opposing offense off the field. We need to drain the clock and capitalize on opportunities because just trying to fire it downfield will lead to more 3 and outs and will not help keep our defense fresh. We need them to be as fresh as they can be.

True, but when opposing teams score on almost every possession it is hard to play clock ball which Gibbs is so good at.

[SkinsFTW]

True, but when opposing teams score on almost every possession it is hard to play clock ball which Gibbs is so good at.

Dude, the game hasn't even started yet. Did the Colts get 14 on us already?

The Redskins can run the ball as long as they are in the game. If the Colts put up 21 in the first half and we don't score then yeah, we need to throw but that hasn't happened yet. The game starts in a couple hours.

[ST#21willbreaku]

You don't get it.

Teams (like the Bucs) that can't run the ball punt and never get to 30 carries. Their great defense ends up being on the field for 35-40 minutes of the game and then their defense isn't that good. Our defense would at least be average if we held onto the ball for 35-40 minutes of the game but we haven't, the other team has.

You give the other team 3-4 more chances on offense during the game and it ends up being the 40-50 yard difference between being a 22-23ish ranked defense and being a 7-8th ranked defense.

I don't think you get it

When your defense stinks and you go down by 14-20 pts. and have to play from behind ---your saying you keep running the ball and chew up the clock???? High scoring teams throw the ball. When your defense sucks opponents put up 30 pts. a game----- you cannot hang with that unless you are able to get quick scores. That does not happen by pounding the ball up the gut for 4 yds.

[jnhay]

True, but when opposing teams score on almost every possession it is hard to play clock ball which Gibbs is so good at.
That's the very reason to play clock ball. Using your logic, opposing teams would score even more if we didn't drain the clock.

[ST#21willbreaku]

You don't get it.

Teams (like the Bucs) that can't run the ball punt and never get to 30 carries. Their great defense ends up being on the field for 35-40 minutes of the game and then their defense isn't that good. Our defense would at least be average if we held onto the ball for 35-40 minutes of the game but we haven't, the other team has.

You give the other team 3-4 more chances on offense during the game and it ends up being the 40-50 yard difference between being a 22-23ish ranked defense and being a 7-8th ranked defense.

I hope you are watching this Atlanta game! The Skins would have been out of it. 3 passing tds in one quarter! Now they are winning the game.

[Obibyn23]

Run the ball...you run the ball successfully , it opens up your offense.


case closed.

[jnhay]

I hope you are watching this Atlanta game! The Skins would have been out of it. 3 passing tds in one quarter! Now they are winning the game.
Gameplans often change as the game goes on. Hopefully our original gameplan works the whole game through.

[skinpride1]

I know how much everyone wants the Redskins to RUN the Ball, but please hear me out.

The Redskins prevent offense and non-aggressive nature will not work with this team. Joe Gibbs and Al Saunders think when they go up 7-0 in the First Quarter they can just try to sit on it for the rest of the game. Yes, this style can work but only if you have a top notch defense (we don't) where teams score 10-13 points a game against you. ALA... Baltimore Ravens/Denver Broncos/Bears/Chargers. They are able to play the Prevent Offense.

Primarily a run team, it is very tough to put up 30 points. If we are going to allow 20+ points a game, an aggressive aerial attack is a must. There is not enough time in a game for Portis to score 30 by himself. Tom Brady, Mcnabb, Peyton Manning are capable. These teams can get away with having an average defense by being able to score in 2 minutes or less.

So, for all you experts out there that say we have to run Portis 30 times a game to win, I challenge you to name one team ever that was successful running the ball 30+ times a game with an average Defense??????
This is a joke right???? :laugh: :laugh:after only giving Portis 14 carries last week.We need not be a run team.Hell i'm still pissed that we didn't have a run game planned aginst a team that is second from last in stopping the run and guess who is in last place?

[ST#21willbreaku]

:dallasuck
This is a joke right???? :laugh: :laugh:after only giving Portis 14 carries last week.We need not be a run team.Hell i'm still pissed that we didn't have a run game planned aginst a team that is second from last in stopping the run and guess who is in last place?

Sure, we can be a run team when our defense is not ranked 25th in the league. Do you really think we are going to score 30 a game by running the football 30 times?? No, we will score 14 pts., but if your defense is giving up 30 a game the equals a loss every time. Wake up experts!

[DieselPwr44]

:dallasuck

Sure, we can be a run team when our defense is not ranked 25th in the league. Do you really think we are going to score 30 a game by running the football 30 times?? No, we will score 14 pts., but if your defense is giving up 30 a game the equals a loss every time. Wake up experts!
What you don't understand is:

You go into the game(you know,when the score is 0-0?) with the plan of establishing the run.

If you are successful in that, it eventually sucks the opponents defense in, making them stack the box,allowing you then to go play/pass and go downfield in the passing game.

Establishing the run first not only keeps Indy's O off the field but your 25th ranked defense too.

No one here is saying that if the Skins find themselves down 10-14 points to keep running. The gameplan has to change then. But if you start off running with success, your offense then starts gathering momentum, and that's a GOOD thing.

[ST#21willbreaku]

What you don't understand is:

You go into the game(you know,when the score is 0-0?) with the plan of establishing the run.

If you are successful in that, it eventually sucks the opponents defense in, making them stack the box,allowing you then to go play/pass and go downfield in the passing game.

Establishing the run first not only keeps Indy's O off the field but your 25th ranked defense too.

No one here is saying that if the Skins find themselves down 10-14 points to keep running. The gameplan has to change then. But if you start off running with success, your offense then starts gathering momentum, and that's a GOOD thing.

What is being said by alot of Skins fans including yourself is give Portis the rock 30 times and we will win. Not true, not w/ this D. My whole point is this gameplan does not work with a below average defense. Yes, the running game keeps the other teams offense off the field. But, you still need to score points. Keeping the opposing offense off the field is not the objective of a game. It is to score points. 45- 5 yd. runs a game will give you 10-14 pts. Is that enough to beat teams like Indy against #25 Defense????

[skinpride1]

:dallasuck

Sure, we can be a run team when our defense is not ranked 25th in the league. Do you really think we are going to score 30 a game by running the football 30 times?? No, we will score 14 pts., but if your defense is giving up 30 a game the equals a loss every time. Wake up experts!
The Patriots did not need to score thirty points a game to carry them to three super bowl titles!!Thirty carries a game is a bit much but if you have no run game, then you have no pass game!!!I just perfer a good balanced attack and the run game is a big part of that!!!A low amonut of carries equals=no pass action play!!!

[Capt'n Obvious]

So, for all you experts out there that say we have to run Portis 30 times a game to win, I challenge you to name one team ever that was successful running the ball 30+ times a game with an average Defense??????

You do know Gibbs' record when he runs the ball 30+ times right? It is ridiculously good.

[DieselPwr44]

What is being said by alot of Skins fans including yourself is give Portis the rock 30 times and we will win. Not true, not w/ this D. My whole point is this gameplan does not work with a below average defense. Yes, the running game keeps the other teams offense off the field. But, you still need to score points. Keeping the opposing offense off the field is not the objective of a game. It is to score points. 45- 5 yd. runs a game will give you 10-14 pts. Is that enough to beat teams like Indy against #25 Defense????
45- 5 yard runs mean we dominate the game and win.:)

That's 225 yards of rushing offense my friend. We'd be running rough shod all over our opponent.

[sinistershawn]

Yes, but, you can count on Indy putting up 30 on our defense. We cannot score 30 with just a run game. We need some big plays. The key to this game is getting some big plays.

Not if they can't get on the damn field thanks to a potent and consistent running attack.

If we're going down, let's do it under our terms, not try to reinvent ourselves in one of - scratch that - the most important game of the year thus far and maybe in our entire season.

Bottom line: We run effectively we should be able to pull the upset...

...we try to outgun Manning and the Colts, and most likely we spend the rest of the year getting guys playing time so that they can be ready for '07.:coltsuck: :helmet: :point2sky :helmet: :coltsuck:

[skinpride1]

After watching our the first two series in the colts game we are running the ball like crap.Don'r forget you must be good at what you are trying to do!!

[skinzfannumero1]

WTF is Fauria even on the field for? I haven't seen him make a single block this season that wasn't being excuted after being driven at least 10 yards into the backfield? Things like that are why we they can't run...

Oh yeah and Dockery doing some kind of slalom avoiding contact with the D line...