With a young QB, we are going to have games like this

[TheLongshot]

Another week, another loss, and a lot of blame to pass around for why we did lose.

First off, let's talk about the defense. Personally, I think that they were respectable out there for the most part. Yes, they gave up a couple of big plays, but Vick didn't beat us with his arm (122 yards passing) or his legs (59 yards rushing). His best reciever, Crumpler, only had two catches (admittedly, those two were painful), and Warrick Dunn didn't do that much on the ground.

Even with the big plays we gave up, the D was on the hook for 17 points. While that isn't ideal, it isn't too bad, particularly when the last TD was given up partly because of fatigue and partially because we had to go three deep at CB for a guy who hasn't seen many defensive snaps. (Yes, Ade Jimoh missed a tackle. Maybe that doesn't happen if Wright or Springs is in there.)

So, that leaves the offense. Personally, I think Gibbs had a very good game plan. With a young QB and an opposing QB who can kill you, the best plan is to run the ball and hold onto it as long as possible. With the exception of one drive and the end of the game, we pretty much stuck to that.

Problem is, against most NFL defenses, you aren't going to be able to run it all day. You need the threat of the pass so that you can continue to run the ball.

Just like last week, the passing game was very inconsistant. Cooley gets the blame for a couple of balls, but most of it was on Campbell and the pass protection. Campbell wasn't particularly sharp and was often off target on his passes. He was fortunate that Moss was on his game, since he saved his butt a few times. I was pretty sure that deep pass was either going to get picked or batted away by the safety, but Moss yet again makes an amazing catch. That is why he's a popular target.

But, in the end, it is Campbell that makes the critical mistake by throwing a ball up for grabs when he's in the grasp of a defender. It is a play that made a 10-14 point swing in the game, because we were in field goal range. It also killed any momentum we were building at the beginning of the second half. It gave a lift to the play of Atlanta, where otherwise we could have put them away and maybe force them to throw the ball.

But, this is part of the growing pains of having a young QB. Cutler basically did the same thing in his first start later that evening. Young guys are going to do that, since they want to go out and make plays. At the same time, they need to learn that sometimes it is better to just hold onto the football, especially when you are in field goal range.

The same goes to the two-minute drill. I mean, let's face it, Campbell is still trying to find his comfort zone in this offense. To expect him to be confident enough to run the offense under the time pressure, when he isn't really doing it yet in the rest of the game is kinda silly.

Once Campbell took over as the starter, it should be expected that he's going to have games like this. Some have viewed Campbell as a savior for this offense, but it is going to take a while for him to get there. Meanwhile, it is all going to be a learning experience.

[skinstzar]

We are going to have games where we build a lead and then change philosophy? we are going to have games where the clock is mismanaged and the playcalling is ****? We had a game like we did yesterday because the coaching staff didn't prepare their team to win an NFL football game. We played that game yesterday because from top to bottom no one at Redskins Park has won a dam thing in today's NFL. We played the game that way because the coaches didn't see fit to atleast activate JC for any of his first 30+ games in the NFL. We played the game that way because we would not commit to stopping the run. We played that way because we put faith in a banged up old corner who won't play with a hammy injury. We played that way because we don't address depth needs. We played that way because no one over there really and truly wants it as bad as the fans do. We played that way because the Redskin philosophy is flawed beyond repair. We played that way because Joe Gibbs has made this team what it is.

[bulldog]

what has happened the last 3 weeks has had little to do with Campbell, which is why Gibbs said after the Tampa loss that 'Campbell right now is among the least of my problems'. :)

this club has no cornerbacks. this club still has almost no pass rush. the right side of the defense can't stop the run to the outside and seemingly gets gashed each week for at least one or two runs of 15-20 yards, if not more.

on offense the club still runs 'trick' plays to ARE and Moss that don't fool anyone. each week we trot out plays that teams are ready for. instead of lining up and beating people straight ahead we still feel that we have to fake people out to be successful.

these are inherent flaws in the staff and the system being employed.

Bill Parcells would never had a rookie quarterback throwing the ball 40 times when the running game is producing 4.8 yards a carry and you have a back at 150 plus yards.

It's beyond silly what Saunders and this staff have done in managing these games.

It's sad to say, but the best play in 3 weeks has been Campbell's calling his own play for the 66 yard TD to Cooley :laugh:

Note that Campbell said they work on that play every week in practice. How come they never run it in the games?????????????????? :mad:

[HailSkinz1]

what has happened the last 3 weeks has had little to do with Campbell, which is why Gibbs said after the Tampa loss that 'Campbell right now is among the least of my problems'. :)

this club has no cornerbacks. this club still has almost no pass rush. the right side of the defense can't stop the run to the outside and seemingly gets gashed each week for at least one or two runs of 15-20 yards, if not more.

on offense the club still runs 'trick' plays to ARE and Moss that don't fool anyone. each week we trot out plays that teams are ready for. instead of lining up and beating people straight ahead we still feel that we have to fake people out to be successful.

these are inherent flaws in the staff and the system being employed.

Bill Parcells would never had a rookie quarterback throwing the ball 40 times when the running game is producing 4.8 yards a carry and you have a back at 150 plus yards.

It's beyond silly what Saunders and this staff have done in managing these games.

It's sad to say, but the best play in 3 weeks has been Campbell's calling his own play for the 66 yard TD to Cooley :laugh:

Note that Campbell said they work on that play every week in practice. How come they never run it in the games?????????????????? :mad:

No need for me to post in this thread (other than this post). You just nailed it all right there! Nice post bulldog! :cheers:

Hail,

H

[TheLongshot]

this club has no cornerbacks. this club still has almost no pass rush. the right side of the defense can't stop the run to the outside and seemingly gets gashed each week for at least one or two runs of 15-20 yards, if not more.

Except, it was the left side of the defense that got gashed this week. What is your explination for that?


on offense the club still runs 'trick' plays to ARE and Moss that don't fool anyone. each week we trot out plays that teams are ready for. instead of lining up and beating people straight ahead we still feel that we have to fake people out to be successful.

Um, we ran one 'trick' play. Other than that, we did try to beat them straight up. Guess what: we can't do that yet offensively.


Bill Parcells would never had a rookie quarterback throwing the ball 40 times when the running game is producing 4.8 yards a carry and you have a back at 150 plus yards.

Well, if we actually scored more than 14 points, then we wouldn't have to.

BTW, we had 35 running plays to 38 passing plays. It was pretty balanced by the end.


Note that Campbell said they work on that play every week in practice. How come they never run it in the games?????????????????? :mad:

Because Cooley actually has to catch it and beat a couple defenders every time.

Jason

[MRMADD]

Campbell had NOTHING to do with that loss. Nothing. He is performing better than anyone could reasonably have expected. The Skins can't give up 256 yards on the ground. They can't call inside handoffs when the clock is running out.

[MABfan]

what has happened the last 3 weeks has had little to do with Campbell, which is why Gibbs said after the Tampa loss that 'Campbell right now is among the least of my problems'. :)

this club has no cornerbacks. this club still has almost no pass rush. the right side of the defense can't stop the run to the outside and seemingly gets gashed each week for at least one or two runs of 15-20 yards, if not more.

on offense the club still runs 'trick' plays to ARE and Moss that don't fool anyone. each week we trot out plays that teams are ready for. instead of lining up and beating people straight ahead we still feel that we have to fake people out to be successful.

these are inherent flaws in the staff and the system being employed.

Bill Parcells would never had a rookie quarterback throwing the ball 40 times when the running game is producing 4.8 yards a carry and you have a back at 150 plus yards.

It's beyond silly what Saunders and this staff have done in managing these games.

It's sad to say, but the best play in 3 weeks has been Campbell's calling his own play for the 66 yard TD to Cooley :laugh:

Note that Campbell said they work on that play every week in practice. How come they never run it in the games?????????????????? :mad:

You make some good points on the defensive side of the ball. But offensively, you somehow leave out Campbell as part of the problem. Execution is a big part of an offense, and you can't separate Campbell from the failure of an offense. When you have a back that rushes for 150 plus yards, you should be putting up points, but it was the passing game that failed us yesterday.

How can you not place any blame on the passing game after a performance like that? Campbell doesn't need any excuses. He is not a rookie. Saunders is not managing the game, the QB is. I give props to Saunders to recognize a weakness in Atlanta's run defense and exploiting it.

Why would you even bring up Bill Parcells?

[TheLongshot]

Campbell had NOTHING to do with that loss. Nothing.

So, Campbell didn't throw a weak pass when he was in the grasp to a D-lineman to set up an easy score, when it should have been us to score?

You need to get your eyes checked. That was the difference in the game.

BTW, we outgained the Falcons.

Jason

[MABfan]

Campbell had NOTHING to do with that loss. Nothing. He is performing better than anyone could reasonably have expected. The Skins can't give up 256 yards on the ground. They can't call inside handoffs when the clock is running out.

...and he had EVERYTHING to do with our win last week!

:puke:

[IHOPSkins]

Campbell had NOTHING to do with that loss. Nothing.......

Then again maybe he had nothing to do with the win last week?

Please

Run.....stop the run....and DONT TURN THE BALL OVER

JC's POISE cost us a HUGE MOMENTUM CHANGING TURNOVER

To close your eyes and Sniff his jock is not realistic

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

So, Campbell didn't throw a weak pass when he was in the grasp to a D-lineman to set up an easy score, when it should have been us to score?

You need to get your eyes checked. That was the difference in the game.

BTW, we outgained the Falcons.

Jason

That play happens. Tom Brady made a similar throw two years ago to lose a Monday night game against the Dolphins. Brett Favre makes that throw every other week.

It's a bad play, but one that - as a team - you have to live through. It happened at a point in the game where it could have been overcome. Heck, if the defense just holds the Falcons to a field goal there, we still have the lead.

On my list of "things that killed us" yesterday, Campbell comes in around #5.

My gosh, the Bears got an all-time horrifying performance from Rex Grossman yesterday...and won in a walk.

[RedskinsNation]

U/we can nitpick this thing to death...each week we all basically take turns torturing and maiming and beating and torturing again the dead horse.

I think with JC we are going to have some more L's but great quarterbacks are hardly ever born overnight. He made some rookie mistakes...anyone see Cutler pull a Campbell last night vs. Seattle??? IT was exactly the same play...last second hurl under pressure & his arm got hit & the throw got picked and taken the distance. Basically a "rookie" mistake...Campbell is a rookie in my eyes so it happens...u learn from it. For the rest of the season the coaches (and us) will see JC's strengths and weaknesses.

Im surprised we dont ever try to install some qb draws, bootleg runs, sneaks etc. We have had SO MANY 3rd and 2's lately its absurd. We lineup in shotgun and flick a pass here or there and maybe 50% it works out. 3rd & 2 is a perfect time to use Campbell for a short qb run. He looked like he has a good first burst when he starts to scramble....he may not be Vick but he's no Brunell...the man can move.

Except Brady and perhaps ROMO (oh no i just said Romo). Then again Romo was in the same system longer than Campbell so he has a leg up.

[TheLongshot]

On my list of "things that killed us" yesterday, Campbell comes in around #5.

Yes, but here's one thing: if Campbell doesn't throw the pick and we kick the field goal or get a touchdown, how does that effect the rest of the game? Does that change what the Falcons are doing? More than likely. The Falcons probably would have thrown it more to try to tie things up. Maybe that big run doesn't happen. Does it help morale on the team? It sure does. That interception was a serious blow to this team, and should not be underestimated.


My gosh, the Bears got an all-time horrifying performance from Rex Grossman yesterday...and won in a walk.

Course, the Bears are used to winning games for their team, because they don't have a choice.

They are probably the only team that could survive such a horrid QB performance.

Jason

[Chris Worthy]

With a young QB, we are going to have games like this

Well if you mean our offensive coaches ignoring adjusting to the defense going to blitz mode and not using draws or screens or max protect so he looks bad then you have a point.


Totally agree. Seems like no back-up plan when they figure us out. I mean if Jason has to bail us out with calling his own play what does that tell you about the staff?

And when they see that maybe...just maybe the kid has just a little bit of moxy out there why continue with not being sure what plays to call out there for him? You can see in the game when they needed to make something happen Jason was looking for the plays to be sent to him and not one bit of urgency or desire to me.

[jeronimobrat]

what has happened the last 3 weeks has had little to do with Campbell, which is why Gibbs said after the Tampa loss that 'Campbell right now is among the least of my problems'. :)

this club has no cornerbacks. this club still has almost no pass rush. the right side of the defense can't stop the run to the outside and seemingly gets gashed each week for at least one or two runs of 15-20 yards, if not more.

on offense the club still runs 'trick' plays to ARE and Moss that don't fool anyone. each week we trot out plays that teams are ready for. instead of lining up and beating people straight ahead we still feel that we have to fake people out to be successful.

these are inherent flaws in the staff and the system being employed.

Bill Parcells would never had a rookie quarterback throwing the ball 40 times when the running game is producing 4.8 yards a carry and you have a back at 150 plus yards.

It's beyond silly what Saunders and this staff have done in managing these games.

It's sad to say, but the best play in 3 weeks has been Campbell's calling his own play for the 66 yard TD to Cooley :laugh:

Note that Campbell said they work on that play every week in practice. How come they never run it in the games?????????????????? :mad:

:applause: Once again, we fans see what it is not apparent to the coaching staff.

:logo:

[SkinFan63]

We are going to have games where we build a lead and then change philosophy? we are going to have games where the clock is mismanaged and the playcalling is ****? We had a game like we did yesterday because the coaching staff didn't prepare their team to win an NFL football game. We played that game yesterday because from top to bottom no one at Redskins Park has won a dam thing in today's NFL. We played the game that way because the coaches didn't see fit to atleast activate JC for any of his first 30+ games in the NFL. We played the game that way because we would not commit to stopping the run. We played that way because we put faith in a banged up old corner who won't play with a hammy injury. We played that way because we don't address depth needs. We played that way because no one over there really and truly wants it as bad as the fans do. We played that way because the Redskin philosophy is flawed beyond repair. We played that way because Joe Gibbs has made this team what it is.

Amen brotha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'll drink to that!:cheers:

[MRMADD]

So, Campbell didn't throw a weak pass when he was in the grasp to a D-lineman to set up an easy score, when it should have been us to score?

You need to get your eyes checked. That was the difference in the game.

BTW, we outgained the Falcons.

Jason

He's starting his THIRD GAME. He did better than he should have. If the coaches game-planned for him to play better than that, then the loss is on them.

We got 177 yard rushing. They got 256. I think it's your eyes that need checking.

[Chris Worthy]

The fact is this whole team is suppose to rally around Jason, and you can see in some cases that they do, But there is a tug-of-war with the playcalling, and that wont help out the young QB to develop into what we vision for him to be.

Now that playoffs is out of the picture now, final exams should be passed out to see who wants it and who wants out.

[SKINZ33]

Of course Campbell will have games like yesterday but there are so many struggles with this team that it makes me sick to my stomach.

[altair4]

The D was far from respectable.....I thought the Offense did fine until they let Al call his plays again. The reverse didn't work in the Vikings game, and it hasn't worked in any other game he has called it.
CP knows the score - "Power and Gut baby, Power and Gut!"

[Cyber Pimp]

Campbell had NOTHING to do with that loss. Nothing. He is performing better than anyone could reasonably have expected. The Skins can't give up 256 yards on the ground. They can't call inside handoffs when the clock is running out.

WTF? JC isnt that good. His release is too slow. The oline played like garbage all season. Man, JC reminds me of Shaun King.

[AJ_Skins]

All of these people finding every lame excuse they can come up with to take the blame from Campbell are the same ones who blamed all the team's problems on Brunell. Now "it's the team it's not Campbell". Sorry folks, it doesn't fly.

The real question is why we are even in this position, and the answer is that there were a lot of other options at QB, but this is the path Gibbs chose. Ben Roethlisberger and Drew Brees, among others, could both have easily been on this team.

[AJ_Skins]

Campbell had NOTHING to do with that loss. Nothing.

:laugh:

[sean"Hitman"taylor]

i hate the corner back we have carlos was gettin critized he is young but we need to kick out spring he cant ply cause he is 99 year old

[TheLongshot]

He's starting his THIRD GAME. He did better than he should have. If the coaches game-planned for him to play better than that, then the loss is on them.

Why do you think they ran so much? At the same time, tho, they expect better than the kid trying to make a play with a guy all over them when he would have been better off taking the sack. It wasn't that they expected him to make a play, but that they expected him to be smart with the football, which he wasn't.

But, I'm not blameing him, because that's what young QBs do, and he needs to learn by experience. We are probably going to have a few of those learning experiences, so expect it.


We got 177 yard rushing. They got 256. I think it's your eyes that need checking.

If we went up instead of giving them the lead, it probably would have been a completely different story. Of course they are going to run the ball with the lead, particularly since they haven't been passing the ball all that well.

Jason

[sean"Hitman"taylor]

it wasnt burnell but if we where goin to lose i want to lose with our future not with our past

[skins4eva]

So, Campbell didn't throw a weak pass when he was in the grasp to a D-lineman to set up an easy score, when it should have been us to score?

You need to get your eyes checked. That was the difference in the game.

BTW, we outgained the Falcons.

Jason


One play is never the difference in the game. You just do not know football. Your comments go beyond being upsurd. I have a feeling you are somehow related to Mark Brunell or work for the team in some capacity. You say our defense played a pretty decent game????? They gave up 256 rushing yards. Please stop!

[TheLongshot]

One play is never the difference in the game.

You are right, two plays. The interception and the TD pass Vick threw after the interception. But, the two plays ended up being a 10-14 point swing. Well, guess what? That was the margin in the game. If it wasn't THE difference, it was a large part of the loss.

Not to mention that if things worked out differently on that interception play, the run at the end probably doesn't happen since the Falcons need to score a TD to tie the game.

Jason

[drowland]

I put more blame on the coaches, then Campbell. It's like Saunders and Gibbs have never worked with a young QB before. They played right into Atlanta's hands. One of the more embarressing coaching displays I've seen. When you consider how much this coaching staff is paid (probably $5 mil more then the next highest paid) it's such a joke.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I'm not making excuses for Campbell. But bad decisions are what I expect from him.

If you have an old hunting dog, you don't expect him to pee on the rug. You expect that with a young dog.

The difference is, the young dog can do a lot of things the old dog is no longer capable of doing.

Switching to Campbell is a trade-off. We are going to have more turnovers and mistakes on offense. Everyone knows that. Hopefully, it's balanced out by plays like the TD to Moss and the long run in the 1st Quarter.

The balance may have been askew on Sunday. Overall, in the three games, the good things outweigh the bad.

[AJ_Skins]

I'm not making excuses for Campbell. But bad decisions are what I expect from him.

If you have an old hunting dog, you don't expect him to pee on the rug. You expect that with a young dog.

The difference is, the young dog can do a lot of things the old dog is no longer capable of doing.

Switching to Campbell is a trade-off. We are going to have more turnovers and mistakes on offense. Everyone knows that. Hopefully, it's balanced out by plays like the TD to Moss and the long run in the 1st Quarter.

The balance may have been askew on Sunday. Overall, in the three games, the good things outweigh the bad.

The question is whether Campbell is even worth the time. Some people seem to think it's a lock that he is. I think that's an overly optimistic assumption.

[MABfan]

I'm not making excuses for Campbell. But bad decisions are what I expect from him.

If you have an old hunting dog, you don't expect him to pee on the rug. You expect that with a young dog.

The difference is, the young dog can do a lot of things the old dog is no longer capable of doing.

Switching to Campbell is a trade-off. We are going to have more turnovers and mistakes on offense. Everyone knows that. Hopefully, it's balanced out by plays like the TD to Moss and the long run in the 1st Quarter.

The balance may have been askew on Sunday. Overall, in the three games, the good things outweigh the bad.

I get it now. Someone just had to put it in terms of hunting dogs. :notworthy

In 3 games, the bad outweighs the good: 1 win, 2 losses.

[TheLongshot]

The question is whether Campbell is even worth the time. Some people seem to think it's a lock that he is. I think that's an overly optimistic assumption.

I don't think it is "overly" optimistic, based on what we've seen so far. Considering that we have only seen him in there for three game, and that he has more TDs than INTs is a good start.

Course, the guy who was around for 4 years and still hasn't proved that he could lead a team anywhere may not be worth the time. :silly:

Jason

[Skins4481]

Personallly, I HATE Saunders' offense. It just doesnt work for us. It seemed as if Joe Gibbs was calling the plays in the first part of the game and we were up 14-0. Then we decide to get cute and 14-24 happens. What pisses me off is that we have NO AUDIBLES! That is just ridiculous.

[RedskinsFan06]

what has happened the last 3 weeks has had little to do with Campbell, which is why Gibbs said after the Tampa loss that 'Campbell right now is among the least of my problems'. :)

this club has no cornerbacks. this club still has almost no pass rush. the right side of the defense can't stop the run to the outside and seemingly gets gashed each week for at least one or two runs of 15-20 yards, if not more.

on offense the club still runs 'trick' plays to ARE and Moss that don't fool anyone. each week we trot out plays that teams are ready for. instead of lining up and beating people straight ahead we still feel that we have to fake people out to be successful.

these are inherent flaws in the staff and the system being employed.

Bill Parcells would never had a rookie quarterback throwing the ball 40 times when the running game is producing 4.8 yards a carry and you have a back at 150 plus yards.

It's beyond silly what Saunders and this staff have done in managing these games.

It's sad to say, but the best play in 3 weeks has been Campbell's calling his own play for the 66 yard TD to Cooley :laugh:

Note that Campbell said they work on that play every week in practice. How come they never run it in the games?????????????????? :mad:

http://espn-i.starwave.com/media/apphoto/5e4b2b50-663a-4502-aaf0-cb91b9fe0e1b.jpg

See Jerious Norwood (ROOKIE) -- 69 yards....:doh:

[AUskins]

Jason struggled this week. You could put $1000 down that AJSkins, MABFan, CyberPimp and IHOPskins were going to be all over this board every time he makes a mistake and you will never hear one positive word from them.

They are the primary haters. Might as well get used to it. Campbell will never do anything good in their eyes.

IMO hes shown some good things and he made some mistakes yesterday. Which is honestly what every young QB has done. Only time will tell if he can become successful. No point going crazy over any one game performance good or bad.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

The question is whether Campbell is even worth the time. Some people seem to think it's a lock that he is. I think that's an overly optimistic assumption.

You are giving up on a #1 pick after three games? Three games in which he has thrown 5 TDs and made only one really bad play?

Tough crowd.

I assume you would have kept Steve Walsh over Troy Aikman too.

[CaliforniaSkin]

JC had a tough game. There is no way of avoiding that fact. He threw two picks when we were in position to score. The first let to a TD by the falcons. On the second, he had Cooley WIDE open for a sure TD but didn't see him. He got a little spooked by the pressure.

Now we've got to expect that with a young QB. All young QBs make mistakes when they first play. Look at the stats for Manning or Aikman their first couple years. It's still WAY to early to know what we've got with JC. He looks like he's got the physical tools (although his release might be a problem), now it's just a matter of seeing how he develops.

This loss is by no means completely his fault. He certainly didn't give up the long TD run that put the Falcons ahead by 2 scores. But he also isn't blameless.

[Jesus, Mary & Joe Gibbs]

3RD AND 9...
Cooley drops it...
Can't leave a young QB out to dry like that...

The 3rd and 2 pass call that forced us to punt late was pathetic when we're running for 6 a clip...

The 3rd down run down near the goal line was pathetic when we already ate up WAY too much clock...

Piss poor game plan...
The momentum IMMEDIATELY shifted after going 3 and out on all passes after going up 14-0 by shoving the run down their defenses throats...

Too many dropped balls...
Campbell did make a bad decision on the first INT...

HOW ON EARTH do you allow Alge Crumpler open in the end zone when he's the ONLY guy they go to in the red zone? Terrible defense...

I'm still AMAZED that Adam Archuleta got that kind of money in the offseason...
Vernon FREAKING Fox has already outplayed him by a longshot in two-three games...

We're in dire need of a pass rush off the edge and DE Gaines Adams from Clemson would be a perfect solution to our anemic pass rush...

Whatever,,,

[TheLongshot]

You are giving up on a #1 pick after three games? Three games in which he has thrown 5 TDs and made only one really bad play?

AJ_Skins never really agreed in drafting Campbell in the first place, so I expect him to be critical.

BTW, I didn't post this thread to suggest that he needs to be benched, just that we should expect that Campbell is going to have not so good games and that he will lose games as well as win games. Sunday, he lost a game. Such is the growing pains.

Jason

[testrake]

way to early to render a verdict on JC. He has all the tools and thus far has shown a lot of poise. His size and mobility helped avoid a good many sacks this weekend seeing how much time he spent running for his life. He has done some good things so foar but he has also made a good many mistakes. That is what we knew was going to happen when the change was made, young QBs make mistakes, it is to be expected. If he learns from the mistakes then we have something, if he uses the rest of the season to learn and comes back next year with the same mistakes then we have a problem.

[Jesus, Mary & Joe Gibbs]

The question is whether Campbell is even worth the time. Some people seem to think it's a lock that he is. I think that's an overly optimistic assumption.

You said Patrick Ramsey was worth 5 years of waiting. Give me a break :rolleyes:

[Jesus, Mary & Joe Gibbs]

And another thing...

Alex Smith(Year 1)
1 TD
11 INT
875 YDS PASSING
40.8 RATING

Alex Smith(Year 2)
12 TD
12 INT
2,143 YDS PASSING 76.3 RATING

Big improvement...
You can't judge a guy on 3 games...

Campbell's #'s are actually pretty good through 3 career games...
5 TD
3 INT
532 YDS PASSING
70 RATING

Matt Leinart this season
8 TD
9 INT
1,939 YDS PASSING
72.1 RATING

Vince Young this season
10 TD
10 INT
1,486 YDS PASSING
64.8 RATING

I know these guys haven't had a year on the bench like Campbell which can greatly benefit you. These guys are looking pretty good right now and they've had stretches of futility already in their careers. Campbell's only played 3 games. You HAVE to give a guy time and go through the growing pains MOST of the time. Not everybody is Tom Brady. Redskins fans are too used to the "quick fix" when what we really need is a sort of a rebuild...

[MABfan]

They are the primary haters. Might as well get used to it. Campbell will never do anything good in their eyes.

:doh:

Sounds oddly familiar.

On the flipside, you are a primary tea-bagger. Might as well get used to it. Campbell will always do good in your eyes.

Thanks for coming by.

[AJ_Skins]

You said Patrick Ramsey was worth 5 years of waiting. Give me a break :rolleyes:

If we were going to be in this position, why didn't we do it in 2004/2005 with Ramsey instead of wasting all this time and draft picks only to be in exactly the same situation? The only answer that cuts it is "Campbell is so much better than Ramsey it was worth cutting Ramsey out of the picture and setting the team back 4 years". Problem is, I don't see it.

[Jesus, Mary & Joe Gibbs]

If we were going to be in this position, why didn't we do it in 2004/2005 with Ramsey instead of wasting all this time and draft picks only to be in exactly the same situation? The only answer that cuts it is "Campbell is so much better than Ramsey it was worth cutting Ramsey out of the picture and setting the team back 4 years". Problem is, I don't see it.

What's setting the team back is the inability to draft worth a damn...
Dealing numerous amounts of draft picks year in and year out for players that hardly ever pan out is asinine...
We dealt a 3rd and 4th rounder for TJ Duckett who doesn't play! We're out of a 2nd, 3rd, AND 4th rounder this year! That's unbelievable. But if you wanna play the "The team is gonna get set back 4 years because we didn't keep the inept Patrick Ramsey" card, fine :anon:

[Jesus, Mary & Joe Gibbs]

Not to mention NONE of our free agents and tradee's from this year are worth a damn...
Archuleta? Makes Vernon FRIGGIN Fox look like Ed Reed...
Andre Carter? You kidding me?
Brandon Lloyd? 2 high draft picks for THAT guy?

And it's the decision to draft Jason Campbell, let Patrick Ramsey go(Who did nothing for the Redskins in his tenure here but be a nice guy), and start anew with Campbell going through the motions, that is such a mind blower...

[AJ_Skins]

And it's the decision to draft Jason Campbell, let Patrick Ramsey go(Who did nothing for the Redskins in his tenure here but be a nice guy), and start anew with Campbell going through the motions, that is such a mind blower...

Yep. QB is the most important position on the team. Gibbs could have traded Ramsey for a first round pick in 2004. He turned it down. He then proceeded to treat Ramsey like a red-headed step-child, and ended up trading him two years later for a 6 after yanking him in the first half of the game in week one. When we drafted Sean Taylor in 2004, Roethlisberger was sitting there at #11. Last year Drew Brees was a free agent. The mistake are numerous, but they are worst at QB.

[Jesus, Mary & Joe Gibbs]

Yep. QB is the most important position on the team. Gibbs could have traded Ramsey for a first round pick in 2004. He turned it down. He then proceeded to treat Ramsey like a red-headed step-child, and ended up trading him two years later for a 6 after yanking him in the first half of the game in week one. When we drafted Sean Taylor in 2004, Roethlisberger was sitting there at #11. Last year Drew Brees was a free agent. The mistake are numerous, but they are worst at QB.

I agree with you here...
Out of ALL the money we've dished out over the years...

Why not clean the bank out for a franchise QB like Drew Brees?

[TheLongshot]

Yep. QB is the most important position on the team. Gibbs could have traded Ramsey for a first round pick in 2004. He turned it down. He then proceeded to treat Ramsey like a red-headed step-child, and ended up trading him two years later for a 6 after yanking him in the first half of the game in week one. When we drafted Sean Taylor in 2004, Roethlisberger was sitting there at #11. Last year Drew Brees was a free agent. The mistake are numerous, but they are worst at QB.

Here we go again! :rolleyes:

So, genius, if Gibbs had a thing against Ramsey the whole time he was here, then why didn't he trade him for that first round pick?

Maybe because you are wrong? Maybe because Gibbs wanted it to work out with Ramsey, but Ramsey just wasn't good enough? Don't you think that's possible?

Jason

[AJ_Skins]

Here we go again! :rolleyes:

So, genius, if Gibbs had a thing against Ramsey the whole time he was here, then why didn't he trade him for that first round pick?

Maybe because you are wrong? Maybe because Gibbs wanted it to work out with Ramsey, but Ramsey just wasn't good enough? Don't you think that's possible?

Jason

Truthfully? I think Gibbs made a trade for Brunell and gave him a huge contract, and therefore felt a responsibility to play him. Ramsey didn't take well to sitting on the bench, so Gibbs got rid of him.

Here are the facts-- Ramsey outplayed Brunell by every statistic including W/L in 2004. Gibbs named him the starter at the end of the year, and then turned around and drafted Campbell in April, before minicamp. Apparently Ramsey completely stunk it up on vacation. His vacation performance was not nearly good enough, so Gibbs had to go get somebody in the draft. He leaves Ramsey in as the starter through all of training camp, and then benches him in the first half on week one.

The only possible explanation is that Campbell is SO GREAT that his availability suddenly made Ramsey expendable. Problem is, that does not appear to be the case. Campbell has some attributes Ramsey didn't, but he is far less accurate than you have to be to make it as an NFL QB, and that's with a bare bones playbook. Regardless of what other flaws he had, Ramsey was a great passer. His problems were mental, and they could have been corrected. Campbell is not that great at throwing the football. That's a much bigger problem long term. The only time we've had even a semblance of a legitimate NFL passing attack since Brad Johnson was with Ramsey.

That said, it is Gibbs's WAFFLING with Ramsey that is most inexcusable. You either trade him right away and draft Roethlisberger, or you PLAY HIM. What Gibbs did was lunacy or incompetence. Take your pick.

[AUskins]

:doh:

Sounds oddly familiar.

On the flipside, you are a primary tea-bagger. Might as well get used to it. Campbell will always do good in your eyes.

Thanks for coming by.

Did you read my post? I said he struggled today. I said time will tell if he belongs in the starting role or not.

You dont hear me calling him a franchise QB or praising this play. He has been better than Brunell however.

[AUskins]

If we were going to be in this position, why didn't we do it in 2004/2005 with Ramsey instead of wasting all this time and draft picks only to be in exactly the same situation? The only answer that cuts it is "Campbell is so much better than Ramsey it was worth cutting Ramsey out of the picture and setting the team back 4 years". Problem is, I don't see it.

You know AJ I dont know myself and we may never know why Gibbs decide to draft another young QB when Ramsey was here. We can only speculate. I didnt understand why he was benched last year.

But since its done dont you want to pull for the team with the QB we have now? We cant change the past and Ramsey isnt coming back now.

[Riggins Seventy Chip]

OMG. It's too early to say that Campbell can't play. He looks like what he is: A promising QB who had two out of three good games. He made some big mistakes in his third game. Now, will he learn from those mistakes and get better? NOBODY KNOWS! It's too early to give up on him.

[Hooper]

Ramsey wasn't handled well here. That said, he also was not a better passer than Campbell -- that's ridiculous. He could throw one pass well -- the intermediate route. He lacked the touch to throw to the flats, and the loft to throw the deep ball. He also had no poise or pocket presence -- when he was under center, the team was often out of timeouts by the middle of the third quarter. And mentally, he was smart as a whip off the field, and dumb as a rock on it.

[Fifty Gut]

it's not all on Campbell's shoulders as others have already pointed out, but he did miss some wide open oppertunities


2. Breaking down the Redskins play calling
Leading 14-0, the Redskins stopped Atlanta on fourth-and-inches and took over possession at the Washington 48.
Some people will question the play calling of Al Saunders over the next three plays. My take:
First-and-10: Jason Campbell throws incomplete deep right side to Santana Moss. A nice throw and catch, but Moss could only get one foot in-bounds. A fine play call on first down, trying to put a dagger into the Falcons.
Second-and-10: A reverse to Antwaan Randle El loses 2 yards. Didn't like the play call. I would have gone play action to Moss or Ladell Betts on a sweep around the left side, a play that worked on the first two scoring drives. It appeared that Campbell looked the wrong way for Randle El at the snap and had to quickly turn the other way for the handoff. By that point, the timing was off.
Third-and-12: Campbell threw incomplete to Randle El. Saunders had to call a pass here, but Campbell missed a WIDE OPEN Moss in the deep middle part of the field.
Saunders wanted to get his quarterback into the flow of the game and said he didn't regret the play calling. Outside of the Randle El play, I don't either. The plays simply weren't executed.

[909997]

qb is not our problem

why arent their threads on sean taylor?

god knows how many times he got juked out by mike vick

and cooley how many drop passes did he have?

and lloyd "iam to scared to jump and grab a pass"

then we have ladell"i let safetys go through me" betts

qb is not the problem if we were a good team we would have won

our d sucks and we cant block the blitz

[roanoker]

OMG. It's too early to say that Campbell can't play. He looks like what he is: A promising QB who had two out of three good games. He made some big mistakes in his third game. Now, will he learn from those mistakes and get better? NOBODY KNOWS! It's too early to give up on him.


:applause: I agree. It's too early to kick him under the bus...

[TheLongshot]

You know AJ I dont know myself and we may never know why Gibbs decide to draft another young QB when Ramsey was here. We can only speculate. I didnt understand why he was benched last year.

Well, the evidence is out there.

Why did he draft Campbell? Because he like what he saw and he wasn't completely sold on Ramsey. While, yes, Ramsey did play better than Brunell in 2004, I wouldn't say that he blew everyone away. He had some good games and he had some bad games. He also had some bad habits, and some passes that he wasn't able to throw. But, there was potential there, and Gibbs wanted to see if he could live up to it.

Meanwhile, Campbell was the insurance policy. If things didn't go well for Ramsey, he had a guy behind him who could develop and eventually take over. In the best case, we have a situation like in SD with Brees/Rivers.

So, we have training camp and preseason. Ramsey looks pretty shaky for most of it, not getting a scoring drive until the 3rd preseason game. Meanwhile, Brunell is doing well against the scrubs. There is some here who think that maybe Brunell should get some time with the starters, but Gibbs sticks with Ramsey.

First game comes along, and that's when Ramsey gets yanked. I never thought that that was a good move. I personally thought he should have made the decision before the first game, or after it. But I have a feeling Ramsey's play had been bugging Gibbs all preseason, and he just had enough at that point. At the end of preseason, he still looked like a work in progress, which is not what you want after 4 years.

AJ_skins seems to think this is personal, but I just don't see it. He seemed to like the kid very much, and when it looked like there was no future here for him, he got moved out.


But since its done dont you want to pull for the team with the QB we have now? We cant change the past and Ramsey isnt coming back now.

Yes, please? Let's leave Ramsey buried at 3rd string on the Jets squad.

Jason

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Oh, God, are we still kicking Patrick Ramsey's corpse.

We can argue all day what happened to his career, but that's, like, two years in the past. It's like arguing about the Bailey/Portis trade. AJ might very well be right, but it seems crazy to re-hash it now.