KFFL: Skins to lose 3rd and 4th for Duckett

[AKM311]

Broncos | Lelie trade produces pair of draft choices
Wed, 27 Dec 2006 07:12:17 -0800

Bill Williamson, of the Denver Post, reports the Denver Broncos will receive the Washington Redskins' 2007 third-round draft choice and a fourth-round pick from the Redskins in 2008 as compensation for trading WR Ashley Lelie to the Atlanta Falcons in August.


I hope this is not official, but seems like it. Man what a waste and horrible season!

[apickmans]

we knew this was gonna happen. More reason to trade down from our potential top 5 pick.

[Cooley4President]

I think it depends on the final standings and the official value chart the NFL produces for the draft picks. So not official, but still possible from what I understand.

[DCsportsfan53]

we knew this was gonna happen. More reason to trade down from our potential top 5 pick.


EXACTLY! We don't need more first rounders, we need young depth. Trade out of the first round entirely and get a ton of picks.

[SkinzFan007]

i wouldnt say entirely but i would like to move from 5ish to around 15ish

[skinfan2k]

thats why we lose.. a win does not bring nothing but an inflated record... 5-11 seems more disappointing than 6-10 IMO

[blitzpackage]

EXACTLY! We don't need more first rounders, we need young depth. Trade out of the first round entirely and get a ton of picks.

I concur. Hopefully our front office will get a clue in the next few months.

[talk show host]

Like Gibbs cares. Draftpicks are like baseball cards to him. We'll probably trade our firstrounder for some veteran linebacker on the wrongside of 30 anyways. The only way this franchise ever has success is if Gibbs quits or we get a GM that doesnt listen to Gibbs at all because he has no idea what he's doing.

[deejaydana]

and people think we'll be competitive in 2007! HA-HA-HA!!!

[dgreen]

So, no chance we swap first rounders with Denver?

[str8jacket]

Trade down looks good, but if the player we need is up top i say we got to get him.

[Riggo#44]

Trade down looks good, but if the player we need is up top i say we got to get him.

Alan Branch or trade down - only 2 scenarios that make any sense

[ConcordNCSkinsFan]

Chris Mortensen confirmed on his chat today that it's a 3rd in '07 and a 4th in '08. I bet Gibbs trades a 2nd or 3rd pick in '08 to get a 2nd or 3rd pick in '07 and of course the trade will probably be with the Broncos because Gibbs loves trying to help Denver be a contender year after year with ridiculous trades.

[Oxtalls]

I concur. Hopefully our front office will get a clue in the next few months.

why? they havent in 7-8 years.

[TLusby]

It depends on the value on the chart for the 3rd rounder. If we lose the game I believe our 3rd rounder would be high enough to compensate based on the chart values. These writers are not researching.

[Heidenreich]

thats why we lose.. a win does not bring nothing but an inflated record... 5-11 seems more disappointing than 6-10 IMO


I'm not driving all the way down to DC to root for them to lose. It aint happening.

How many more times do people need to complain about this trade?

[Hooper]

Unbelievable. And, as usual, no one in the front office will be held accountable and things won't change.

[Grumpy Vet]

EXACTLY! We don't need more first rounders, we need young depth. Trade out of the first round entirely and get a ton of picks.

I'm sure Cerrato can wheel and deal w/ other teams and make a scenario like this happen where we parlay our 1 pick into 7:

Round Overall Pick Value
1 5 1700

becomes....

Round Overall Pick Value
1 12 1200
2 40 500

becomes....

Round Overall Pick Value
1 31 600
2 40 500
2 60 300
3 87 155
3 89 145

Round Overall Pick Value
1 31 600
2 55 350
2 60 300
3 87 155
3 89 145
4 108 78
4 111 72

Surely other teams have seen what Denver's track record w/ us is and would be eager to be involved in any trade w/ us.....

I can keep going....knowing that we only retain 8.654% (made up number) of our draft class longer than a year - we should play the percentages this year....If you gave me some time I bet I could come up w/ a draft class in the triple digits...

[drowland]

Surely other teams have seen what Denver's track record w/ us is and would be eager to be involved in any trade w/ us.....

I can keep going....knowing that we only retain 8.654% (made up number) of our draft class longer than a year - we should play the percentages this year....If you gave me some time I bet I could come up w/ a draft class in the triple digits...

Yeah, they see us giving Denver picks. Not taking them. I think teams are more eager to trade down with the Skins because they now the Skins will over pay to move up. Like which ever team got our 2nd rd pick in 07 in the Rocky deal. Was that the Jets or Packers?

[Oldfan]

So, no chance we swap first rounders with Denver?

My understanding is that the swap of #1s would take place only if we finished high in the standings, ahead of Denver.

[Oldfan]

For those of you hoping that we can trade down, bear in mind that you need a trading partner anxious to move up to get a particular player. It's something that can be hoped for, but not something that you can plan on.

[Oldfan]

Like which ever team got our 2nd rd pick in 07 in the Rocky deal. Was that the Jets or Packers?

That was the Jets (9-6) who were building for the future and not trying to fill one particular need and win now like we were.

[scruffylookin]

What kills me about this, absolutely kills me is that Gibbs okayed this deal. In fact he probably went to Vinny and told him to go make it happen after CP got hurt and then he turned around and never used Duckett.

I can understand if a GM went out and made this deal because he thought we needed another runner but the coach disagreed and continued to play the guys he already had, but when they are essentially one and the same person, it just makes you as a fan want to take your head and repeatedly bang it into a wall a couple dozen times.

What the hell was Gibbs thinking?

[skinfan2k]

For those of you hoping that we can trade down, bear in mind that you need a trading partner anxious to move up to get a particular player. It's something that can be hoped for, but not something that you can plan on.
top 3 would guarnatee many trading partners.. joe thomas, brady quinn and CJ.. teams always want to trade up, but its the team withthe pick that declines.. i rather take less value and get more picks in return even if it were not in our favor

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

This trade is going to go down in history.

[Destino]

If this team traded their 1st for Jeff Garcia I wouldn't even be surprised.

[HOF44]

EXACTLY! We don't need more first rounders, we need young depth. Trade out of the first round entirely and get a ton of picks.

The only problem with that is we can't pick guys that have been in the league for a few years with the consistancy you should. It would be like throwing darts at a draftboard picking rookies. We need a top notch GM for this strategy to work. Without one I hate to say it, but we are better off with the free agents.

Please hire an up and coming GM and LISTEN to him.

[FuriousD]

What kills me about this, absolutely kills me is that Gibbs okayed this deal. In fact he probably went to Vinny and told him to go make it happen after CP got hurt and then he turned around and never used Duckett.

I can understand if a GM went out and made this deal because he thought we needed another runner but the coach disagreed and continued to play the guys he already had, but when they are essentially one and the same person, it just makes you as a fan want to take your head and repeatedly bang it into a wall a couple dozen times.

What the hell was Gibbs thinking?


You have to remember that the year was very young and we were brimming with promise. Portis shoulder really spooked Gibbs and he acted out of panic, I think.

Aside from that, I think we have to make room for Duckett and make every effort to play him. Portis has something to prove before we can consider him all the way back. What if he's getting brittle? Betts / Duckett is a very stout 1-2 punch. I say keep em all.

Btw, how are Ducketts hands. If he's ever gonna be anything but a short yardage back in this offense be better be able to catch.

[HOF44]

What if he's getting brittle? Betts / Duckett is a very stout 1-2 punch. I say keep em all.


The problem is Ducketts contract is up. No way he stays here after what went down this year. He will not sit around as the #3 back, inactive half the time. He's gone.

[BleedBNG]

What kills me about this, absolutely kills me is that Gibbs okayed this deal. In fact he probably went to Vinny and told him to go make it happen after CP got hurt and then he turned around and never used Duckett.

Don't get me wrong, Rock was fine and we didn't need this in the first place, but for those who thought Lumsden wasn't worth :2cents: , I would say he was worth a 3rd round pick.

[Oldfan]

The only problem with that is we can't pick guys that have been in the league for a few years with the consistancy you should. It would be like throwing darts at a draftboard picking rookies. We need a top notch GM for this strategy to work. Without one I hate to say it, but we are better off with the free agents.

You are correct that our batting average is going to be much lower on draft picks than in free agency. But, if the pick doesn't work out, you lose only the value of the pick. If you hit a good one, though, you have a player who will contribute at bargain prices.

Whereas in free agency, you usually pay top dollar and take a heavy hit on the cap. When you make a mistake you pay for it.

The best strategy is to accumulate as many draft picks as possible to give yourself a better chance of improving in the draft.

Obviously, you need top-notch talent evaluators whether it's in the draft or free agency.

[Oldfan]

This trade is going to go down in history.

"It's a trade that will live in infamy"...read with an F.D.R. voice.

[SkinsGlory]

Dumb trade, but hey, we've all said it for a billion times.

[coachreiter]

Yeah, we beat the Duckett trade into the ground. But what better, clearer example is there of the foolishness of our team's management? For those totally frustrated with the Skins and decisions that are made, and obstacles to reaching the next level, why not drag out the 'ol Duckett trade? It is a shining example of futility. It seems we are always engaged in a "crap shoot" concerning how we acquire players, rather than a careful and deliberate evaluation of talent, needs, and relative worth. Why aren't we smarter than this? Since when did draft picks become so expendable and cheap? We can see the best teams year in, and year out hold these picks in highet esteem and value.

[jivelikenice]

If we were to have the 7th pick for arguments sake, what would that be worth in a trade down if we were to go to the 15-20 range? Would that net us an additional 2nd, or a 3rd and a 4th???

[fansince62]

Skins FO = DUMB ARSES!!!!!!!!!!

[Skins4481]

This is bull****. We are going to give them a top 10 pick in the 3rd round and it's still not enough for giving up Lelie? Cerrato is (whoever Denver's GM is)'s *****. Enough of this crap already.

[TLusby]

It's a better deal than Heath Shuler, or Desmond Howard! How many 3rd rounders from 2003 are still in the league? I bet less than five!

[Major Harris]

EXACTLY! We don't need more first rounders, we need young depth. Trade out of the first round entirely and get a ton of picks.

with the gaffs we have made evaluating talent, i'd rather go for the more sure thing.

[Major Harris]

How many 3rd rounders from 2003 are still in the league? I bet less than five!


although i'm not doing the research, i'd be willing to bet you're off on that estimate.


edit:
Round 3
Sel# Team Player Pos. School
65 Cincinnati Kelley Washington WR Tennessee
66 Detroit Cory Redding DE Texas
67 Houston Antwan Peek OLB Cincinnati
68 Chicago Lance Briggs OLB Arizona
69 Dallas Jason Witten TE Tennessee
70 Arizona Gerald Hayes MLB Pittsburgh
71 Minnesota Nate Burleson WR Nevada
72 Jacksonville Vincent Manuwai G Hawaii
73 Seattle Wayne Hunter T Hawaii
74 St. Louis Kevin Curtis WR Utah State
75 Houston Seth Wand T N.W. Missouri
76 Carolina Mike Seidman TE UCLA
77 Baltimore Musa Smith RB Georgia
78 Miami Wade Smith T Memphis
79 Green Bay Kenny Peterson DE Ohio State
80 San Diego Courtney VanBuren T Arkansas-Pine Bluff
81 Washington Derrick Dockery G Texas
82 Carolina Ricky Manning CB UCLA
83 Oakland Sam Williams DE Fresno State
84 Cleveland Chris Crocker SS Marshall
85 N.Y. Jets B.J. Askew FB Michigan
86 New Orleans Cie Grant MLB Ohio State
87 Miami Taylor Whitley G Texas A&M
88 Houston Dave Ragone QB Louisville
89 San Francisco Andrew Williams DE Miami
90 Indianapolis Donald Strickland CB Colorado
91 N.Y. Giants Visanthe Shiancoe TE Morgan State
92 Kansas City Julian Battle CB Tennessee
93 Tennessee Chris Brown RB Colorado
94 Buffalo Angelo Crowell MLB Virginia
95 Philadelphia Billy McMullen WR Virginia
96 Oakland Justin Fargas RB Southern California
97 Tampa Bay Chris Simms QB Texas

[skinfan2k]

It's a better deal than Heath Shuler, or Desmond Howard! How many 3rd rounders from 2003 are still in the league? I bet less than five!

65 Cincinnati Kelley Washington WR Tennessee

66 Detroit Cory Redding DE Texas

67 Houston Antwan Peek OLB Cincinnati

68 Chicago Lance Briggs OLB Arizona

69 Dallas Jason Witten TE Tennessee

70 Arizona Gerald Hayes MLB Pittsburgh

71 Minnesota Nate Burleson WR Nevada

72 Jacksonville Vincent Manuwai G Hawaii

74 St. Louis Kevin Curtis WR Utah State



77 Baltimore Musa Smith RB Georgia

78 Miami Wade Smith T Memphis



81 Washington Derrick Dockery G Texas

82 Carolina Ricky Manning CB UCLA



85 N.Y. Jets B.J. Askew FB Michigan

86 New Orleans Cie Grant MLB Ohio State

87 Miami Taylor Whitley G Texas A&M

90 Indianapolis Donald Strickland CB Colorado

91 N.Y. Giants Visanthe Shiancoe TE Morgan State

92 Kansas City Julian Battle CB Tennessee

93 Tennessee Chris Brown RB Colorado

96 Oakland Justin Fargas RB Southern California

97 Tampa Bay Chris Simms QB Texas

sorry, lance briggs, our own derrick dockery, jason witten

[tr1]

Like Gibbs cares. Draftpicks are like baseball cards to him. We'll probably trade our firstrounder for some veteran linebacker on the wrongside of 30 anyways. The only way this franchise ever has success is if Gibbs quits or we get a GM that doesnt listen to Gibbs at all because he has no idea what he's doing.

Please, take the hate someplace else...maybe a pukes' board.

[bulldog]

isn't it frustrating how the Redskins always seem to give up that little EXTRA on each trade that just makes it all so hopeless? :cry:

the deal for Duckett should have been for a #4 pick alone. he is a short yardage back and never has rushed for 1,000 yards. #3 AND #4 picks was too much for him.

same deal with the Champ/Portis trade. no reason to 'throw' in a #2 pick to the Broncos in this deal. Champ was the #7 overall pick of the Skins in 1999, we should recoup at least that value for him given that he was a three time pro bowler when he was traded.

you can go on and on.

#3 pick was high comp for Brunell. the 34 year old qb was going to be released by the Jaguars in any event in 2004. we could have waited a couple of weeks and signed him for no compensation.

then there is the Brandon Lloyd deal. #3 and #4 picks for a guy with a bad attitude?

why not just use the $10 million bonus we gave him and go get a REAL wide receiver in free agency? :laugh:

while we are passing the megabucks around, why not sign someone with PROVEN ability for CASH and keep the draft picks to restock the lines?

[lavredskin56]

i think the redskins need to take more control in trades. And definetly stop giving away draft picks now that we see the need these days for young talent. Man it really angers me to just look at the talent of this team and realize the potential they all have but its like every year they just throw it away. Duckett wasnt needed even when we traded for him. We could already pound the ball in with portis, i dont know what was going on in snyders head when this happened


but it is what it is:gaintsuck :eaglesuck :dallasuck

[Major Harris]

it is what it is


blondie, that you?

[ZoEd]

Alan Branch or trade down - only 2 scenarios that make any sense

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

I couldn't agree more.

[Stormy]

Alan Branch or trade down - only 2 scenarios that make any sense

:applause:

That's my position, as well. Branch is such a one-of-a-kind instant impact DL that taking him would address numerous problems, and outweigh the benefit of moving down for extra picks. I don't see any other single player in this draft fitting our needs/scheme to such a degree that they are worth keeping instead of trading down to get equal value, and extra personnel, from a mid-first rounder and 2nd rouunder.

You know what's a shame? The fact that we have to even discuss trading away an elite top 5-7 pick, not from a strategic standpoint, but to try to compensate for the innumerable picks we have flushed as throw-ins to bad trade decisions.