Don't Blame Greg Williams

[funbunch87]

I am sick and tired of people bashing Williams... Its tough to have a good D when the front 7 can't generate a pass rush. So what if he calls the cover 2 alot. That means the front four which features 20 million dollar Andre Carter needs to get to the Qb, which they clearly havn't this year. Greg is here to run our defense. He shouldn't have to teach Carlos Rogers how to catch a ball, or teach our D line how to get a sack....The players should be capable of doing those things....

[Supreme Wu]

Who picked the players?

[Craig]

Who picked the players?

Exactly. And who ran good players out of town just to teach them a stupid lesson?

[chow184]

who makes carlos give a 20 yard cushion on 3rd and short?
who played adam archuleta in more deep coverage situations than sean taylor?
who kept warrick holdman starting for 16 games this season?
who kept playing the same crappy cover 2 scheme week after week when they got soundly beaten?
who begged adam archuletta to come here with the promise of blitzing him ALOT to rarely blitz him and eventually bench him and never speak to him?
who allowed the safeties coach&corners coach to teach contradicting techniques,and screw up DB chemistry?

[Phixius]

who makes carlos give a 20 yard cushion on 3rd and short?
who played adam archuleta in more deep coverage situations than sean taylor?
who kept warrick holdman starting for 16 games this season?
who kept playing the same scheme week after week when they got soundly beaten?
who begged adam archuletta to come here with the promise of blitzing him ALOT to rarely blitz him and eventually bench him and never speak to him?
who allowed the safeties coach&corners coach to teach contradicting methods of defense,and screw up DB chemistry?

Nuff said

[Taylor21_INT_4_TD]

thats the one hitta quitta
Nuff said

[funbunch87]

Referring to Greg Williams --->One minute he was god to you, the next he was garbage.....Don't worry he'll be God again next season....

[Spaceman Spiff]

Referring to Greg Williams --->One minute he was god to you, the next he was garbage.....Don't worry he'll be God again next season....

It's a what have you done for me lately league. Sad, but true.

[chow184]

Referring to Greg Williams --->One minute he was god to you, the next he was garbage.....Don't worry he'll be God again next season....
yeah and what if his D sucks in 07?it better not or he'll be out of a job

[Doctor ToughLove]

Who picked the players?


Exactly. And who ran good players out of town just to teach them a stupid lesson?

I've waited awhile to hear that, but I didn't have to wait long.

Red Auerbach said the problem with coaches today is they don't work things out, they just vie for better player. Hmmmm.

Always respected that Marvin Lewis made it work with Daryl Gardener, Bruce Smith, Arrington even if they didn't always see eye to eye. Especially this year when a well known but anonymous redskin player said the problem is GreggW is arrogant, disrespects player, and thinks he can win with systems and doesn't need players. That is hubris.

I think GreggW is a good defensive coach (not "genius") but I think he has been indulged too much and given too much reign and needs to be reigned in and better managed. For that reason I don't think he is head coaching material and am against him being the Redskins head coach. Fine with him as defensive coach as long as he produces.

Bottom line: some blame is due but lets not be overreactionary.

[SAli457180]

I think you can blame Williams for picking coaches like Steve Jackson and Jerry Gray who along with their players didn't even meet with each other for practices and meetings. Williams has a huge ego and it has given him power; power he really shouldn't have.

[banks979]

I am sick and tired of people bashing Williams... Its tough to have a good D when the front 7 can't generate a pass rush. So what if he calls the cover 2 alot. That means the front four which features 20 million dollar Andre Carter needs to get to the Qb, which they clearly havn't this year. Greg is here to run our defense. He shouldn't have to teach Carlos Rogers how to catch a ball, or teach our D line how to get a sack....The players should be capable of doing those things....


Not only who picked the players-but who COACHES the players?
Someone is in charge of the 31st best defense in the NFL
Should I instead blame Gibbs? Danny? Vinny Cerato?
***I say this wishing I had your homerism that a historically bad defense can all of a sudden bounce back into a top 10 again.

[ZoEd]

I am sick and tired of people bashing Williams... Its tough to have a good D when the front 7 can't generate a pass rush. So what if he calls the cover 2 alot. That means the front four which features 20 million dollar Andre Carter needs to get to the Qb, which they clearly havn't this year. Greg is here to run our defense. He shouldn't have to teach Carlos Rogers how to catch a ball, or teach our D line how to get a sack....The players should be capable of doing those things....

Wow, you couldn't defend him in one of the 20 bash GW threads going around? Seriously, did a thread have to be started so someone could light their candles around the GW shrine allowing 24 hour worship to the great genius himself. :D

I'll give you this; he made this defense fearsome for two years and we hardly lost any players and even filled some holes. Yes we lost S. Springs for several games but we lost him last season right before the playoffs and the defense still played well. So in the offseason the players who stepped up, Ryan Clark and Walt Harris, were shown the door with total disregard for the accomplishments they made for this team. Instead we make a one dimensional safety the highest paid safety in the league. So the two "role" players we let go could have been retained for a fraction of what we paid AA to sit the bench. The defense belongs to GW and he alone should shoulder the blame.

Do you honestly believe Lavar, Pierce, Smoot, Clark, Harris and AA are all fabricating the way they've been treated? Seriously, how can so many people be wrong?

[wildbill]

My only critisism of Gregg is the fact that when we blitz it's entirely way too telegraphed. No element of surprise at all.

That's on him........the fact that the players seem to seek out blockers when they do blitz is another story?

Seems like we're the only team in the league that never comes through entirely clean on a blitz

[altair4]

Put down the pipe and step away from the keyboard.


He IS responsible for the full performance of the D is all aspects of the game. That is what he is paid the big bucks for. His D has gone from top 10 to the basement in 1 season. He is directly responsible for that. And his coaching staff.

[rsc]

Greggggggg sssuuuucks

Is this a serious thread? One can give him credit for a good defense in 2004 but he also has to take the blame for the current performance. The one issue that bothers me the most is the personnel moves. If AA is really so bad that he warrents being released then some responsibility needs to be taken in going after him in free agency with the big contract. How does someone at the level of Mr. Williams miss that badly. There just seems to be a disturbing trend starting with AP.
I know this means nothing, but I watch the Skins games at a sports bar which happens to have way too many Bills fans. All of them couldn't give a rat's rear end about Greggggg. They were all happy to see him go. I'll take a D-coordinator that not only is smart but can relate to players.

[wildbill]

Responsible for injuries too?

Springs being out hurt this team more than anything else this year.

The pipe comment????

[Doctor ToughLove]

A point worth raising too is -- GreggW inherited a defense that had been top 5, 10, 5 in three of the last four years. Only the underqualified George Edwards couldn't do anything with it. GreggW, after replacing every single player on this top 5, 10, 5 defense, with his handpicked favorites has one of the worst defenses in the nfl.

GreggW did a pretty good job of playing with his predecessors deck of cards. How much of his previous sucess was from them? and their players? Who has GreggW really developed? (Sean Taylor the highest drafted safety in over a decade? )

[redskins55]

I am sick and tired of people bashing Williams... Its tough to have a good D when the front 7 can't generate a pass rush. So what if he calls the cover 2 alot. That means the front four which features 20 million dollar Andre Carter needs to get to the Qb, which they clearly havn't this year. Greg is here to run our defense. He shouldn't have to teach Carlos Rogers how to catch a ball, or teach our D line how to get a sack....The players should be capable of doing those things....


Man, Wake Up!......

The defense has been on a steady decline for the last 2 years. Anyone with football knowledge can see that our defense is vulnerable and has been since Williams took over. He got lucky the first year by surprising teams with the aggressive tactics, but he has neglected the good players on the defense. So now his schemes are garbage because he's to cocky to admit that his players are the ones that make differences! He is not the whole reason, but he deserves alot of the blame!

[RedskinzOwnU]

There's nothing wrong with the cover 2. Heck, according to our offensive coaching staff the first half of the season, the cover 2 is so good that they "can't throw deep against it." Now, that's a crock of **** and we all know it, but the bottom line is you can't criticize the man for running the cover-2. It's not impenetrable like some wanted us to believe (Brunell, etc.), but it's certainly an effective scheme when run properly (not the way we played it), but our issues are probably more personnel than anything else.

[lovellj]

Do you honestly believe Lavar, Pierce, Smoot, Clark, Harris and AA are all fabricating the way they've been treated? Seriously, how can so many people be wrong?

Quit exaggerating. Pierce never criticized GW - he criticized the FO for not ponying up the cash to keep him. GW may have played a part in that, but the criticisms from Pierce never had to do with the defensive scheme or personal treatment by the coaches. And Smoot, Clark and Harris never came out and publicly bashed him either....where people are getting that I have no clue. The only two that have are AA and Lavar...which apparently makes it truth.

[GrimReefa]

Quit exaggerating. Pierce never criticized GW - he criticized the FO for not ponying up the cash to keep him. GW may have played a part in that, but the criticisms from Pierce never had to do with the defensive scheme or personal treatment by the coaches. And Smoot, Clark and Harris never came out and publicly bashed him either....where people are getting that I have no clue. The only two that have are AA and Lavar...which apparently makes it truth.

Pierce said, quite truthfully, that the team disrespected him and the impact he had on that defense. He was allowed to walk because Williams said he was expendable. In other words, it was Williams who did the disrespecting. There is no "the FO". "The FO" is Dan Snyder writing the checks, Vinny Cerrato crunching the numbers, and the coaching staff deciding who stays, who goes, and who gets brougt in. If the coaching staff had told Snyder that they wanted Pierce back, or Smoot back, or Harris back, or Clark back, then Vinny would have made it work and Dan would have written the checks. But that's not the way it happened.

I think Gregg Williams can stay. I think the team can be a postseason contender as early as next season. But the team HAS to bring in a real general manager to make personnel decisions. The coaches are in over their heads, end of story. Just as Holmgren was in Seattle. Just as a bunch of other examples that can be found in recent NFL history.

[SkinsFTW]

A point worth raising too is -- GreggW inherited a defense that had been top 5, 10, 5 in three of the last four years. Only the underqualified George Edwards couldn't do anything with it. GreggW, after replacing every single player on this top 5, 10, 5 defense, with his handpicked favorites has one of the worst defenses in the nfl.

GreggW did a pretty good job of playing with his predecessors deck of cards. How much of his previous sucess was from them? and their players? Who has GreggW really developed? (Sean Taylor the highest drafted safety in over a decade? )


Thats what I've been saying. He does great with other peoples players while still having the excuse that they aren't HIS chosen players.

Once he exchanges what we had with what he wants it goes straight to hell.

If you don't point the finger at Gregg Williams then who exactly is to blame here? these are all the players he wanted. Guys like Bailey, Pierce, Clark, Smoot, Arrington are on other teams now. A couple of them are playing pro bowl level football while we have the 30th ranked defense with no depth at all.

[DCMONEY]

Wow, you couldn't defend him in one of the 20 bash GW threads going around? Seriously, did a thread have to be started so someone could light their candles around the GW shrine allowing 24 hour worship to the great genius himself. :D

I'll give you this; he made this defense fearsome for two years and we hardly lost any players and even filled some holes. Yes we lost S. Springs for several games but we lost him last season right before the playoffs and the defense still played well. So in the offseason the players who stepped up, Ryan Clark and Walt Harris, were shown the door with total disregard for the accomplishments they made for this team. Instead we make a one dimensional safety the highest paid safety in the league. So the two "role" players we let go could have been retained for a fraction of what we paid AA to sit the bench. The defense belongs to GW and he alone should shoulder the blame.

Do you honestly believe Lavar, Pierce, Smoot, Clark, Harris and AA are all fabricating the way they've been treated? Seriously, how can so many people be wrong?

:applause: :notworthy

In addition G. Williams pride is what brought this defense down. He's the one choosing his talent and showing others the door. I for one have said this about Williams from day 1 but you know of course when things are going good, people disregard his actions. Its funny how an unknown player comes out and says that Williams thinks its his sysytem and not the players he make it. I said this 2 years ago when the Skins Def were ranked #3 overall. Why is Warrick Holdman still on this team? He can't cover, get off blocks or tackle. He's playing over a guy that they gave up 2 second picks for. What does that sya about his evaluating. Archuleta? Nuff said. :doh: :rolleyes:

[Rolling Thunder]

I think GW needs to stop reading his newspaper clippings from 3 years ago about what a "defensive genius" he is and go to work. His D has declined in rank every year he has been here...whats next??? 32nd ranked D?

[GaryClarkFan]

who makes carlos give a 20 yard cushion on 3rd and short?
who played adam archuleta in more deep coverage situations than sean taylor?
who kept warrick holdman starting for 16 games this season?
who kept playing the same crappy cover 2 scheme week after week when they got soundly beaten?
who begged adam archuletta to come here with the promise of blitzing him ALOT to rarely blitz him and eventually bench him and never speak to him?
who allowed the safeties coach&corners coach to teach contradicting techniques,and screw up DB chemistry?

Give this man a cigar!!! Right on brother. How can anyone NOT blame GW, come on man you need to be honest. This is HIS defense and when we are good he gets the credit and when WE SUCK he gets the blame!

[CPortJGibbs89]

Well if we can't blame GW who can we blame and what would we all ***** about then Huh???? And oh yea by the way its GW's fault plain and simple.

[Portis4President]

I think Williams is an egomaniac who can't admit when he's wrong (as he was with getting Archuleta). This is Williams' defense, folks. He screwed it up.

[NAILBOMB9]

Who picked the players? Word!! Plus, GW is a piece of ****!!

[skindogger47]

It took him 9 games to realize that his cover two doesn't work without a very good set of fast, smart linebackers WHO CAN TACKLE. He thinks that if you draw up a play, then it should work regardless of who is in there. Wrong. I just can't believe it's taken this long for Rocky to start. This defense might be too complex for him, but it's too complex for everyone else apparantly as well. Just listening to GW talk makes me mad.

[str8jacket]

I have a buddy that is a bills fan at work. And he was telling me that GW really ran them into the ground when he was the coach there. I mean yeah the players aren't all there that we need, but the dropoff from last year was too drastic.

[deejaydana]

Well we did underperform this year BUT YOU HAVE TO BLAME HIM for the Archuleta debacle. And then he can't even own up to it. Yikes

[Chick_in_B&G]

It took him 9 games to realize that his cover two doesn't work without a very good set of fast, smart linebackers WHO CAN TACKLE. He thinks that if you draw up a play, then it should work regardless of who is in there. Wrong. I just can't believe it's taken this long for Rocky to start. This defense might be too complex for him, but it's too complex for everyone else apparantly as well. Just listening to GW talk makes me mad.

The sad thing is, Rocky wouldn't have started last week if Washington hadn't gone down to injury.:doh: I have to wonder if Holdman is GW's illegetimate child.

[bulldog]

Williams should be the coach of the defense. He should not be the General Manager as well on that side of the ball. I doubt if Scott Pioli or Joe Banner would have made the mistake of overpaying Archuleta or of committing major dollars without incentives to Carter, a player coming back from serious surgery in 2004 who played OLB for the 49ers in his final season there.

[ImmortalDragon]

I am sick and tired of people bashing Williams... Its tough to have a good D when the front 7 can't generate a pass rush. So what if he calls the cover 2 alot. That means the front four which features 20 million dollar Andre Carter needs to get to the Qb, which they clearly havn't this year. Greg is here to run our defense. He shouldn't have to teach Carlos Rogers how to catch a ball, or teach our D line how to get a sack....The players should be capable of doing those things....
The funny thing is, the cover 2 requires a great pass rush, more than just one player. We do not have the line to run the cover 2 so often. We should be running the 46 with Archuleta playing.

[mistertim]

I think Williams is an egomaniac who can't admit when he's wrong (as he was with getting Archuleta). This is Williams' defense, folks. He screwed it up.

It certainly does seem that way sometimes. Maybe that is why he kept playing the same scheme over and over when it was being beaten. He just couldn't accept that his genius system wasn't much without the right players. So what does he do? Does he man up and quickly change strategy or tailor the defense to the players he has? No. He benches Archuletta for being crappy in coverage when he was the one putting him in those situations, and then proceeds to use the same defensive scheme. Very frustrating. Someone needs to knock him off of his pedestal.

[S21Taylor]

Referring to Greg Williams --->One minute he was god to you, the next he was garbage.....Don't worry he'll be God again next season....

That's beside the point, he screwed up this year and deserves to be bashed

[End2round2sanders]

mostly the same guys we had last season. We went through some injuries last year but still finished 10th in the league. We aren't even ranked. Our D is like a division 2 college team thats not ranked in the poll. SO HELL YEA BLAME WILLIAMS.

[jbowman]

Greg Williams is a brilliant coach when it comes to playcalling. It's a shame he sucks a player management and relations. The best thing that could happen to Williams is if Washington picked up a GM who also kept an eye on him and his attitude towards players.

[GoodOnPaper]

Wow, you couldn't defend him in one of the 20 bash GW threads going around? Seriously, did a thread have to be started so someone could light their candles around the GW shrine allowing 24 hour worship to the great genius himself. :D

I'll give you this; he made this defense fearsome for two years and we hardly lost any players and even filled some holes. Yes we lost S. Springs for several games but we lost him last season right before the playoffs and the defense still played well. So in the offseason the players who stepped up, Ryan Clark and Walt Harris, were shown the door with total disregard for the accomplishments they made for this team. Instead we make a one dimensional safety the highest paid safety in the league. So the two "role" players we let go could have been retained for a fraction of what we paid AA to sit the bench. The defense belongs to GW and he alone should shoulder the blame.

Do you honestly believe Lavar, Pierce, Smoot, Clark, Harris and AA are all fabricating the way they've been treated? Seriously, how can so many people be wrong?

Very well spoken. He'll be the first to say its "his" defense and "his" scheme so it only makes sense that it's "his" fault. He's a horrible person to deal with on a player-coach level and it's only a matter of time before it kills the defense completely. I can only imagine that having a coach like that takes the fun out of playing the game. Instead of playing for pride, they're playing to not get the silent treatment or whatever bull**** he comes up. Its retarded.

[johnny99]

He needs to leave right now! This D is awful and it is his D. He is the DC! :puke:
97 yards? not halenging a poor QB

GW must go!

[hkHog]

Fire Him Now!

[Skins81a]

Dont blame Williams.... what a stupid idiot....Zone defense on 3rd and long all season. And gues what we have given up 3rd long all year.

[SUpartyCommish]

For me the biggest let down on defense this season has been turnovers (or lack there of)
GW knew Tiki was the Giant to stop tonite, rediculous!

[lovellj]

I take back what I said. If this defense comes out this inept, this poorly coached and drilled in the second half, Williams and his staff deserve the boot. Right after the game.

[Skins81a]

I cant believe Fox is better then AA. He has been terrible in run coverage! Why...WHY..is there no accountablity from GW to this organization!

[Knightwchmn]

Then He Better Be Ready To Make The Tough Call And Start Sitting People Down Who Don't Play "balls Out!!" Season Is Over, Send Out The Reserves!!

-the D

[TerpSkins21]

If Gibbs had any balls he would fire Williams tonight.

[southskinsfan]

Who picked the players?


I am so glad I am not the only one who thought this.:doh:

[CustomApparelDirect]

I am sick and tired of people bashing Williams... Its tough to have a good D when the front 7 can't generate a pass rush. So what if he calls the cover 2 alot. That means the front four which features 20 million dollar Andre Carter needs to get to the Qb, which they clearly havn't this year. Greg is here to run our defense. He shouldn't have to teach Carlos Rogers how to catch a ball, or teach our D line how to get a sack....The players should be capable of doing those things....

Carter played well. It's not HIS 'fault' that there was LITTLE (if any) WLB or FS 'Help'!?! Carter turned MOST of those runs INSIDE. WHERE were Marshall, McIntosh, and Taylor/Fox?!? DE's are SUPPOSED to 'turn plays IN' (which Carter DID); the LB's & Safeties are SUPPOSED TO 'Back the Line-Up'!!! :doh: :mad: :(

The UNACCEPTABLE 'Whiffs/Mis-Tackles' by the Secondary (Rogers & Co.) were the REAL Problem!!! Even 'PEE-WEE' League Players KNOW to NOT Tackle 'HIGH'!!! How come The REDSKINS' Defenders DON'T?!? :doh: :mad: :(

'WTF' type of Defense was GW calling?!? "REDSKINS Football-101": "STOP the RUN; Play 'SMASHMOUTH, DOWN-HILL', PLAY-ACTION Football"!!! :applause: :cheers: :2cents:


http://www.freewebs.com/besttravel/CustomApparelDirect_Banner1.gif (http://www.CustomApparelDirect.net/)

[OriginalWhizzinator]

gregG sucks, too stuborn, and his scheme is old and buisted. keep him around anyway though and make em fix this mess..

[JoeGibbsThickandthin]

Greg Williams needs to just quit. I think he just got over his head a little.

[dsciambi]

Hopefully Snyder gets fed up and fires him on Monday.

[Destino]

coach fanboys make me sick.

whaa whaa don't blame Williams whaa. I mean hell it's not like he makes the lineman dance around in stunts instead of just going after the passer... no never that. Our lineman have said as much in interviews. They've mentioned after impressive outings that they were glad he let them just go after the QB. The end of last season and the sudden out of no where pass rush we got is a great example of this.

Gregg's defense SUCKED this year. All the "whaddaboutlastyear!" didn't amount to jack this year did it?

[Redskin Rush]

I am sick and tired of people bashing Williams...

Look Fun Boy, GW is an arrogant ass who got rid of our good players in favor of his egotistical scheme. He doesnt treat his players like MEN and disrespects people like it aint ****. And you wonder why they dont play hard for him 100% of the time.

[CapitalDefense]

Who picked the players?BINGO!!!

His ego has allowed him to think that he can take medicore players and make a great defense. His best year, his first year here, was with players already here, Smoot, Pierce etc. He picked Phillip Daniels and Adam Archuleta, not Joe! He is a terrible talent evaluator and should not have any input on who his defensive players will be in the future. The best thing GW has done for the Redskins to date is convince Joe to pick Sean Taylor. When we probably would have chosen Winslow, thats it!

[orneryone2]

I didn't realize Ryan Clark was that good a defensive back. Maybe if GW had the right players, his system would work. Then again, maybe he should have left good enough alone.

[Earthcat]

We go from, what was it 3rd rated defense a couple of years age to what, are we 33rd this year? Seems close.

[JoeGibbsThickandthin]

BINGO!!!

His ego has allowed him to think that he can take medicore players and make a great defense. His best year, his first year here, was with players already here, Smoot, Pierce etc. He picked Phillip Daniels and Adam Archuleta, not Joe! He is a terrible talent evaluator and should not have any input on who his defensive players will be in the future. The best thing GW has done for the Redskins to date is convince Joe to pick Sean Taylor. When we probably would have chosen Winslow, thats it!


Exactly, Joe has turned the offense around from Spurrier over the 3 years. He brought a good offensive playcallers and got a franchise QB.

Williams has lost Trotter, Peice, Clark, Champ Bailey, Smoot,Arrington

[Referee]

I don't want to have a season like this again... What a disappointment. Many changes should be made. Sometimes coaches get stale and need to be rejuvenated...



Referring to Greg Williams --->One minute he was god to you, the next he was garbage.....Don't worry he'll be God again next season....

[Sticksboi05]

I am sick and tired of people bashing Williams... Its tough to have a good D when the front 7 can't generate a pass rush. So what if he calls the cover 2 alot. That means the front four which features 20 million dollar Andre Carter needs to get to the Qb, which they clearly havn't this year. Greg is here to run our defense. He shouldn't have to teach Carlos Rogers how to catch a ball, or teach our D line how to get a sack....The players should be capable of doing those things....

...................he should go over the technique of solid tackling in practice and how to be aware of the opposing players tendencies....

[Kelvin Bryant]

I wasn't able to read all of your post, since my eyes instantly began to bleed when I saw the name of Greg Williams. So I will assume that you, like every other right-thinking Redskins fan, want him smeared in honey and staked out over an anthill.

[dinzelwashington]

hmmm... why isnt noone speaking of lemar marshall... man on 3 and 7 he cant gaurd the open field. they got the completion on marshall for the first down but luckily we made them punt that possesion..
lemar, how is lemar our middle linebacker.. GW is a dumbass for sticking in the middle.. hes started his career as a sorry pass rusher. then in GW scheme he goes to a alright weakside then to middle. middle has the most responsibilities on the field. lemar just doenst have the instincts for that. what i mean by insticts is intensity, the hype, the everyplay is a last play for him. how can a RB like tiki continue to break records againt us.. last four games against the giants, i believe tiki ran for 187, 207, 213, 227 today.. doesnt anyone else see we are in desperate need of a middle linebacker.. a middle linebacker that knows how to plug the holes.. know when to delay blitz, know when and where to shift DE's.. our defense continues to drop. that face mask he did late in the game. pour sportsmanship! another reason why hes got to go..

And A.Pierce.. Being the leader on D for us a couple of years, im pretty sure he knows the soft spot in our d. He then explains it to coughlin what are D is all about. They Prep for in practice.. they run game against us like they do 2 yrs straight. we get swept again. Pierce was bitter about leaving Washington, now hes tasting the sweetness. i think because of pierces departure we continue to lose to giants..

[Bryan81]

Chow184 says it all. That tip of the iceberg is all that really needs to be said.

[skin_finatic]

greg williams isn't the one tackling

[Phixius]

greg williams isn't the one tackling

He is the one coaching, not adjusting due to the fact they keep doing the same mistakes and stupid enough to believe his system actually works

[The extremist]

NFL record low 12 (!) forced turnovers for the season

[LoudMouth12thMan]

who makes carlos give a 20 yard cushion on 3rd and short?
who played adam archuleta in more deep coverage situations than sean taylor?
who kept warrick holdman starting for 16 games this season?
who kept playing the same crappy cover 2 scheme week after week when they got soundly beaten?
who begged adam archuletta to come here with the promise of blitzing him ALOT to rarely blitz him and eventually bench him and never speak to him?
who allowed the safeties coach&corners coach to teach contradicting techniques,and screw up DB chemistry?
I was with you until you went all "believing everything you read/hear..." on me :)
lines 1-4 are pretty good observations IMO, but don't believe all the b.s. you've read/heard D's problems or are going to hear in the future. Being devil's advocate here, but injuries and depth issues certainly played a major role in the unraveling wouldn't you say?

Signed,
Mrs. Williams :silly:

[steve57]

We've had one great year out of GW and the Defense, one pretty good year (not great), which we were able to ride into the playoffs, and now this road apple. The trend is all downward, which, btw, was something you noticed w/ Buddy Ryan, GW's mentor. In other words, the Act gets old. I doubt Greg the Genius' phone will be ringing this year.

[End2round2sanders]

didn't we set a franchise mark for yards allowed in a season???

[Bang]

And A.Pierce.. Being the leader on D for us a couple of years, im pretty sure he knows the soft spot in our d. He then explains it to coughlin what are D is all about. They Prep for in practice.. they run game against us like they do 2 yrs straight. we get swept again. Pierce was bitter about leaving Washington, now hes tasting the sweetness. i think because of pierces departure we continue to lose to giants..


I agree Marshall has been a huge problem in the middle. He gets blocked by everyone.

Pierce was only our leader for one year. He played sparingly prior to that.

We keep losing to the Giants because we can't stop ANY run, and theirs is better than most.
we keep losing to the Giants because they look right over at Warrick Holdman and run right AT him. In all honesty, I don't think they need Antonio Pierce to tell them Holdman stinks.

~Bang

[OriginalBroccoli]

yeah and what if his D sucks in 07?it better not or he'll be out of a job

why is it that everyone thinks that firing the coach is the best thing to do, guess what... we have been firing the coach and hiring a new one every year since dan snyder got here and you know what we accomplished? Absolutely nothing.

[Skins81a]

why is it that everyone thinks that firing the coach is the best thing to do, guess what... we have been firing the coach and hiring a new one every year since dan snyder got here and you know what we accomplished? Absolutely nothing.


Not true....Williams is in his 3rd year, he signed a 10 mil special teamer to put us in cap hell and his D has gotten worse every year..not to mention the lowly records set. Fire Williams NOW!

[OriginalBroccoli]

I was with you until you went all "believing everything you read/hear..." on me :)
lines 1-4 are pretty good observations IMO, but don't believe all the b.s. you've read/heard D's problems or are going to hear in the future. Being devil's advocate here, but injuries and depth issues certainly played a major role in the unraveling wouldn't you say?

Signed,
Mrs. Williams :silly:


yeah im gonna have to agree with you, also lets not shed too many tears over poor unfortunate Adam Archuleta, he is a safety and safeties have to cover if all he wants to do is blitz and cover the run he should have become a linebacker. I get so tired of people crying for him it's so lame, he played terrible and now he's on the bench and instead of working hard and getting back to starting on defense he decided to be a wet diaper and cry about it.

[OriginalBroccoli]

Not true....Williams is in his 3rd year, he signed a 10 mil special teamer to put us in cap hell and his D has gotten worse every year..not to mention the lowly records set. Fire Williams NOW!

your gonna actually try to say that firing the coach and hiring a new one every year is a good idea? Yeah how stupid does a coach have to be to think that a safety should cover people? Thats the worst idea ever, safeties don't cover they just stop the run, who needs consistency anyways.

[Skins81a]

your gonna actually try to say that firing the coach and hiring a new one every year is a good idea? Yeah how stupid does a coach have to be to think that a safety should cover people? Thats the worst idea ever, safeties don't cover they just stop the run, who needs consistency anyways.

What are you talking about....we arent firing a coach "every year". Have you been following the Skins, this is GW's 3rd year! And I dont understand your point on the safety...Williams is the one that recruited hard for AA!

[redskin81]

Somebody has to be blamed. This defense has been pathetic all season. From the tackling to the covering. Its got to start somewhere and that would be at the top.

[Geoff_K]

When the trend has been .... top 5 D ... top 10 D ... near LAST D then it appears as if the person in charge is not getting it done. Had he been more consistant then it would not be an issue.




Maybe he HAS made players angry. Guess what happens when enough of them get angry ..... the coach is givne the boot. I cant think of many owners that will fire 10 or more starters and keep a coach that is making them all mad.

Eventually he HAS to get the players behind him because they want to be, not because he tries to intimidate them.

The difference between reaching out to tackle a guy running past you and diving at him is enough to make a difference on the play, yet maybe not enough to cost a guy his job.

I know I can put out 95-96% effort at work and not get fired, however if I like my boss I will give him 110% effort.

[da#1skinsfan]

Dude....give it up, I have. Ever since that article everyone on here is CONVINCED Gregg Williams is the problem. Just let all the sheep sit back and complain about GW, its tough to ignore but we just gotta do it.

Im with you 100%. Williams didnt drop that pick in the end zone. Williams didnt drop the pick Wright had in his arms. Nor did he drop the 2 last week either. The players are in position to make plays, thats Williams job, and hes doing it.

[rdskns n 05]

who makes carlos give a 20 yard cushion on 3rd and short?
who played adam archuleta in more deep coverage situations than sean taylor?
who kept warrick holdman starting for 16 games this season?
who kept playing the same crappy cover 2 scheme week after week when they got soundly beaten?
who begged adam archuletta to come here with the promise of blitzing him ALOT to rarely blitz him and eventually bench him and never speak to him?
who allowed the safeties coach&corners coach to teach contradicting techniques,and screw up DB chemistry?


I am with Ya..... :cheers:

[da#1skinsfan]

I am with Ya..... :cheers:

First off....half of Carlos dropbacks are designed, and sometimes they work, sometimes they dont. Thing is, you dont notice when they do work, only when they dont.

I dont know what games you were watching, but after the first couple games, Archuleta was constantly playing the run. He was blitzed frequently. HE DIDNT PENETRATE. Wake up guys, is he a safety or is he a linebacker? Boo hoo if he has to cover SOMETIMES and got exposed. That is why he is a liability and why hes on the bench. If 8 out of 10 plays you blitz or play the run, and the other 2 when yo uare asked to cover you are exposed, you cant be on the field, period. Our coaches saw that, adjusted, and took his ass out.

As for the last 2, theres that beautiful article again. You weren't complaining about seperate meetings when we were a top 10 defense 2 years running were you? Enough of that.

It just gets real old....some things we may not agree with, sure, but its so funny to me how all the blame gets put on this guy after that stupid article comes out. Sheep.

[Mark The Homer]

If you can credit Williams for the defense in '04, then you can blame Williams for the defense in '06.

[Bozman777]

It's easy to say fire Williams and I may agree. That defense last night has obvious problems taking wrong gaps,poor tackling and probably more so not giving a s***! Lemar had a terrible game and so did Carlos. O.K. enough with the complaining who would we hire to turn this thing around? I just hope whoever is coaching the D next year gets the linebacking situation fixed. I believe thats what is hurting us most right now.

[skinfan61]

Responsible for injuries too?

Springs being out hurt this team more than anything else this year.




No, he's not responsible for injuries. However if this defense is so lacking in depth and flexibility that we can not sustain some level of competence when injuries hit, then that is on his head and his alone. Injuries are part of football and need to be planned for. Sometimes that might mean that his "system" has to be sacrificed in order to work for the personnel that are on the field that day.

[da#1skinsfan]

If you can credit Williams for the defense in '04, then you can blame Williams for the defense in '06.

That is a very good point actually.

However there is a difference between simply blaming/crediting someone, and screaming for their head on a platter.

[GaryClarkFan]

First off....half of Carlos dropbacks are designed, and sometimes they work, sometimes they dont. Thing is, you dont notice when they do work, only when they dont.

I dont know what games you were watching, but after the first couple games, Archuleta was constantly playing the run. He was blitzed frequently. HE DIDNT PENETRATE. Wake up guys, is he a safety or is he a linebacker? Boo hoo if he has to cover SOMETIMES and got exposed. That is why he is a liability and why hes on the bench. If 8 out of 10 plays you blitz or play the run, and the other 2 when yo uare asked to cover you are exposed, you cant be on the field, period. Our coaches saw that, adjusted, and took his ass out.

As for the last 2, theres that beautiful article again. You weren't complaining about seperate meetings when we were a top 10 defense 2 years running were you? Enough of that.

It just gets real old....some things we may not agree with, sure, but its so funny to me how all the blame gets put on this guy after that stupid article comes out. Sheep.

Thats funny you call us sheep and you wanna still be led by GW.Go figure

[da#1skinsfan]

Thats funny you call us sheep and you wanna still be led by GW.Go figure

That could be the absolute WORST attempt at a coherent thought that I have ever seen on this site. What exactly is your point? That I'm a sheep because I dont agree with the article. See, my point is that the people who keep regurgitating this bogus article are sheep...it has no value, yet people keep bringing it up. Unrelated to supporting GW or not.

My point about sheep is relating to the article, not whether or not one wants to be "led" by GW. If you dont think GW is good, thats fine, if your points surround that article, you're a sheep.

Wanna try again?

[ZoEd]

First off....half of Carlos dropbacks are designed, and sometimes they work, sometimes they dont. Thing is, you dont notice when they do work, only when they dont.

I dont know what games you were watching, but after the first couple games, Archuleta was constantly playing the run. He was blitzed frequently. HE DIDNT PENETRATE. Wake up guys, is he a safety or is he a linebacker? Boo hoo if he has to cover SOMETIMES and got exposed. That is why he is a liability and why hes on the bench. If 8 out of 10 plays you blitz or play the run, and the other 2 when yo uare asked to cover you are exposed, you cant be on the field, period. Our coaches saw that, adjusted, and took his ass out.

As for the last 2, theres that beautiful article again. You weren't complaining about seperate meetings when we were a top 10 defense 2 years running were you? Enough of that.

It just gets real old....some things we may not agree with, sure, but its so funny to me how all the blame gets put on this guy after that stupid article comes out. Sheep.

Ignore the article all together. Look at how his team in Buffalo revolted against him.

How about Rocky saying he doesn't know why he's not playing because the coaches don't tell him.

How about Lavar saying he wasn't being spoken to by GW either.

How about Pierce saying he was disrespected by GW by being shown the door without as much as a reach around.

How about the decision to show Clark the door but making AA the highest paid safety in the league.

Seriously your arguement doesn't hold water. GW may be a great a great D coach but he obviously has some personality issues that rub his players the wrong way. If you think that's okay then your nuts. Bull

[sackfumble]

The defensive line gets blown off the ball more times than not and pressure is rare.The linebackers as a group can't tackle and can't cover.The secondary can't tackle or cover.The schemes don't help.This is an easy fix-ask the New Orleans Saints whose defense went from doormat to respectable in one season.

1 hire a GM who knows what he's doing

2-Get rid of the defensive staff.The schemes don't work and the players have tuned them out.

3-hire a defensive coordinator with a track record for turnovers that can get to the QB.Williams has never produced turnovers with his defenses-ever.

4-identify the handful of current players that will produce in the new system.

5-get rid of the guys that can't play anymore-anyone watch Joe Salavea get pushed around last night? You can patchwork a decent defense together with cheap free agents and trades if you have a system that works.Look at the guys the Saints picked up over the summer to play linebacker-all backups from other teams.Omar Stoutmire flourished in their secondary until he got hurt.

It is the system stupid-and this one that Williams uses doesn't work anymore.

What's the use? Gibbs isn't going to can this guy.More of the same garbage defense next year.

[GaryClarkFan]

That could be the absolute WORST attempt at a coherent thought that I have ever seen on this site. What exactly is your point? That I'm a sheep because I dont agree with the article. See, my point is that the people who keep regurgitating this bogus article are sheep...it has no value, yet people keep bringing it up. Unrelated to supporting GW or not.

My point about sheep is relating to the article, not whether or not one wants to be "led" by GW. If you dont think GW is good, thats fine, if your points surround that article, you're a sheep.

Wanna try again?

Actually after reading some of your posts you are a bore.Just becauase you post alot doesn't mean you are offering anything of value. Quality not quantity you moron. And also the season is over get off of your knees for Greg Williams and turn in your kneepads. He is horrible as are most of the players on this defensive unit.


Have a great New year jackass!!!:cheers:

[da#1skinsfan]

Actually after reading some of your posts you are a bore.Just becauase you post alot doesn't mean you are offering anything of value. Quality not quantity you moron. And also the season is over get off of your knees for Greg Williams and turn in your kneepads. He is horrible as are most of the players on this defensive unit.


Have a great New year jackass!!!:cheers:

Wow, great comeback. Instead of contributing insight, keep attacking me personally. Another great nugget of intelligence! :applause:

Just another example of this site hurting bigtime...the best we have is "gw sucks and so do his players." Great point, way to come with it.

ANYWAY....to everyone but the clown in question....

I just dont know where we go from here. GW will be back. I look at our personnel and I see glaring holes at LB and DB. The line, I just dont see us changing. I'd like to see a move in the draft for another DE, and get secondary help via FA and the draft.

[GaryClarkFan]

Wow, great comeback. Instead of contributing insight, keep attacking me personally. Another great nugget of intelligence! :applause:

Just another example of this site hurting bigtime...the best we have is "gw sucks and so do his players." Great point, way to come with it.

ANYWAY....to everyone but the clown in question....

I just dont know where we go from here. GW will be back. I look at our personnel and I see glaring holes at LB and DB. The line, I just dont see us changing. I'd like to see a move in the draft for another DE, and get secondary help via FA and the draft.

Man you are truly horrible...Do you play defense for the Washington Redskins???:applause: :applause:

[dustinwhylee]

This is just a random thought and I didn't feel like making a new thread cuz it's not important and it might have been covered already but...

How fat has Gregg Williams gotten? He's going to look like Bill Parcells in no time. Gregg's already gained the man titties. It disgusts me to see someone get out of shape so badly, especially when they expect their players to stay in shape. I mean, I guess it's one thing if you're already fat and you're coaching. But I think it's other to lose some self-control because you have a little more cash in your pocket.

[sackfumble]

This is just a random thought and I didn't feel like making a new thread cuz it's not important and it might have been covered already but...

How fat has Gregg Williams gotten? He's going to look like Bill Parcells in no time. Gregg's already gained the man titties. It disgusts me to see someone get out of shape so badly, especially when they expect their players to stay in shape. I mean, I guess it's one thing if you're already fat and you're coaching. But I think it's other to lose some self-control because you have a little more cash in your pocket.


He's going for the Bill Parcells look.