Trade Jamison for a legit POWER Forward?

[jcl6f]

What does everyone think about trading Jamison for a legit POWER forward...maybe someone like Kenyon Martin...or Drew Gooden?

[Spaceman Spiff]

Nah, he's an important part of this teams chemistry.

Besides, K-Mart is always hurt. Gooden isn't consistant enough.

I know hands11 will be all over this, though ;)

[Kevin101]

K-Mart is out for the year.

[jcl6f]

I understand Jamison is a big part of the team chemistry but he's a tremendous liability on defense. If we could get a solid defender at PF who can also give us 18 pts and 10 rebs a game we would have a title contender in the wizards. What about packaging Jamison and someone else like Jarvis Hayes for Drew Gooden?

[jcl6f]

Sorry. Not Gooden! Carlos Boozer.

[arenasisgod]

ugh. I hate when this thread rears its head every month or so.

first of all, Boozer is having an all-star year on a team headed to the playoffs, why would the Jazz simply deal him for Jamison? For his friendly demeanor? Kenyon Martin is out for the year and Gooden pretty much sucks.

Jamison is integral to this team's success. Look at the w's, they all involve Jamison's scoring and rebounding.

[mojobo]

or how about we just let etan play PF that way we have two extremely good defensive big men down low and since Booth and Blatche are playing well (enough) and provide good depth for big men.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I think you need to look at what Jamison brings to this team outside of the on the court stuff.

[twenty-eight]

Sorry. Not Gooden! Carlos Boozer.


:doh::doh:

I'm not even going to explain myself.

COME ON, MAN

[PamelaBrandy]

Wow! It usually takes more than one loss for the trade anybody threads!
I could say just as everyone else that he is the #1 Blocker on the team and he is part of the big three.

[jcl6f]

It's just a thought. Don't get me wrong, I love Jamison. But if we look at the legit contenders in the league, they all have a big man (C or F) who can defend the paint. The problem with our defense is that our interior defense (our "Big" men) are terrible and our guards always collapse and double team in the paint whenever someone goes to the hoop. The result is that someone is always wide open on the perimeter. It's just so frustrating to watch. And if it weren't for Arenas going off every game and Butler shooting 50+% from the field we would be in bad shape. Jamison is definitely a great offensive weapon, no doubt about that...but would we really need a third scorer that bad if we had better defense?

Having said all that...the ideal solution would be for Eddie Jordan to start coaching the team to play tough defense. It seems like he's settled on the fact that we're the "Suns of the East" and can only win by trying to outscore opponents.

[DjTj]

Having said all that...the ideal solution would be for Eddie Jordan to start coaching the team to play tough defense. It seems like he's settled on the fact that we're the "Suns of the East" and can only win by trying to outscore opponents.The ideal solution would be to keep our third scorer (and the best rebounder on the team) and just have some big men to come off the bench that can play defense. Maybe some guys named Songaila or Thomas...

[arenasisgod]

win by trying to outscore opponents.
I love this statement. Isnt that the object of the game? I'm not trying to flame you, cuz I hear it from sportswriters and TV commentators all the time. The big man you speak of is hard to find, IMO, especially the one that provides even half of the offensive genius that Jamison provides (and you can't tell me some of those scoop shots aren't straight brilliant).

[twenty-eight]

25 teams need a legit PF :doh:

Nobody is gonna give one up for Jamison....


It's like you dont know :pooh: about the NBA

[ACW]

He's important, and he's one of the "core" players. It might not be a bad idea to have Thomas when he comes back (or maybe try Blatche?) start instead though and have AJ provide that scoring spark off the bench though.

[Warhead36]

Kenyon Martin :laugh: gotta be kiddin me man

[909997]

why u wanna break up the chemistry?

[hands11]

Nah, he's an important part of this teams chemistry.

Besides, K-Mart is always hurt. Gooden isn't consistent enough.

I know hands11 will be all over this, though ;)

:D

Well, I am well documented with my evaluation of his game and his importance to the team. I definitely think he causes the team huge defensive problems. But I'm not sure I have the GM knowledge to say moving him off the team would help. I am concerned about chemistry. Plus, I personally prefer to wait our own guys that got us here, to get us over the top.

I lean toward growing threw this problem with what we have. Growing our players, getting healthy, and better coaching decisions to max AJs upside while covering for his weakness. Resign him for less and make him a bench player were his match ups are easier.

My opinion is that he is the main reason we have to rack up so many points to win. He just cant cover on D if someone takes him one-on-one and he cant rotate to cover the 3. Having a post player like that is to tough to cover up against a lot of teams and almost all the good teams.

Teams like Dallas, SA, etc are going to chew us up unless we understand the problem and commit to a solution. Right now, that solution is giving Blatche more PT so he gets better. Specially one night that AJ is getting chewed up
Sure we may loss some today, but we will be way better off for many years moving forward. Its the Brunell syndrome.

When Etan gets back, we need to start playing combos of him, Haywood and Blatche more and specifically anytime we need D. Come Feb 16, we can add Sangaila to the mix.

We aren't going to make it very far until these moves happens.

[hands11]

I understand Jamison is a big part of the team chemistry but he's a tremendous liability on defense. If we could get a solid defender at PF who can also give us 18 pts and 10 rebs a game we would have a title contender in the wizards. What about packaging Jamison and someone else like Jarvis Hayes for Drew Gooden?

Something like that would be interesting. I'm just not sure we need to do it because help is on the way. The problem is, will EJ have the nads to stop relying so much on AJ, thinking we can always just score more, or will he follow his own call for better defense by playing players who can defend better while still scoring some.

Lets see what happens when Etan returns.

Also, I want to see a much stronger commitment to getting Blatche some PT.
Booth will never grow into the player Blatche can become.

We are a good team and we have proven we can win games. But if the real goal is to win it all, then it time to invest more in the players that can get us there and grow threw the pain of the adjustments.

[SantanaClaus89]

OK see these "trade player x" threads have got to go...

This team has chemistry and Jamison is an integral part of it believe it or not.

Here's a little research for you to do instead of conjuring up potential trades.... Name me two third wheels on an NBA roster who are more productive than Antawn Jamison.

News flash... this team doesn't play defense. They win by outscoring the opponent. They have been this way for three seasons now, and they are getting very good at what they do. If you can't handle it, then don't watch the games because they are what they are, and there is no way EG is going to destroy the team chemistry by trading any of the starters.

And please, don't talk to me about AJ's defense... who on this team DOES play good defense besides Stevenson? So I'm guessing we should just trade the whole roster now?

[hands11]

Wow! It usually takes more than one loss for the trade anybody threads!
I could say just as everyone else that he is the #1 Blocker on the team and he is part of the big three.

Big three :doh: I hate this big three thing. Who in the hell cares.
Big threes don't win you titles.

Gil and Caron are complete players. AJ is not. And it a real shame because he does so much well. But the one thing he doesn't do well causes so many problems for this team. The solution is to do what a complete team did with him, bring him off the bench. Gordon is a very good player. Why does he come off the bench?

[hands11]

It's just a thought. Don't get me wrong, I love Jamison. But if we look at the legit contenders in the league, they all have a big man (C or F) who can defend the paint. The problem with our defense is that our interior defense (our "Big" men) are terrible and our guards always collapse and double team in the paint whenever someone goes to the hoop. The result is that someone is always wide open on the perimeter. It's just so frustrating to watch. And if it weren't for Arenas going off every game and Butler shooting 50+% from the field we would be in bad shape. Jamison is definitely a great offensive weapon, no doubt about that...but would we really need a third scorer that bad if we had better defense?

Having said all that...the ideal solution would be for Eddie Jordan to start coaching the team to play tough defense. It seems like he's settled on the fact that we're the "Suns of the East" and can only win by trying to outscore opponents.

Exactly. :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Spaceman Spiff]

Yeah, but hands...Jamison averages a double double. While he might not be the best on the ball defender in the world, he's good for 19-10, night in and night out. Plus he's got a good outside shot.

All of our players have deficiencies maybe except Arenas and Butler. Yeah, Jamison has a hole in his game but he does a lot of other things really well.

Trading Jamison for a defender will take points off our board and it'd be hard to quantify how much a defensive oriented player would mean to us.

[hands11]

Yeah, but hands...Jamison averages a double double. While he might not be the best on the ball defender in the world, he's good for 19-10, night in and night out. Plus he's got a good outside shot.

All of our players have deficiencies maybe except Arenas and Butler. Yeah, Jamison has a hole in his game but he does a lot of other things really well.

Trading Jamison for a defender will take points off our board and it'd be hard to quantify how much a defensive oriented player would mean to us.

I'm confused as to why your responding in this way to one of my posts.

These are all things I have said myself.

[Big C]

this trade jamison stuff is getting old. we dont play a low post game, face it. we are suns east and we are succeeding. u dont mess with the core of a successful team. jamison is having a good season, hes going nowhere

[Sticksboi05]

There's a rumor that we may send Haywood and Hayes to Blazers for Jamaal Magloire in a 3 way trade with the Hawks.

"http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/44124/20070108/rumored_trade_between_atlanta_portland_and_washing ton/"

[twenty-eight]

Can you give me a real link?

thanks

[clathel]

[QUOTE=Sticksboi05]There's a rumor that we may send Haywood and Hayes to Blazers for Jamaal Magloire in a 3 way trade with the Hawks.

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/44124/20070108/rumored_trade_between_atlanta_portland_and_washing ton/[/QUOTE (http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/44124/20070108/rumored_trade_between_atlanta_portland_and_washing ton/[/QUOTE)]

that should give you the link....

this is the blog entry/article:


Some trade scuttlebutt

By Sekou Smith (http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/hawks/entries/2007/01/08/some_trade_scut.html#postcomment) | Monday, January 8, 2007, 03:55 PM

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

It’s that time of year again. You know, when the fun and foolishness of trade rumors dominate the NBA landscape more than any game or actual real life event possibly could (the trade deadline is like a tractor beam for insanity, any and everybody in the league will be involved in at least one wild rumor between now and the Feb. 22 deadline).

Normally, I try and steer clear of all the trade bluster (mostly because the “real” deals aren’t rumored about before they happen. Look no further than the Falcons’ hiring of Bobby Petrino. Dude’s name never came up during the process and now he’s the new coach).

But I’ve been hearing all sorts of interesting things regarding the Hawks (and that $8 million in cap space) and the interest teams have in dealing with them or trying to enlist their help in getting a deal done.

The best one sent my way over the weekend: a three-team deal involving the Hawks, Portland and Washington. How does this one grab you. The Blazers send Jamaal Magloire to Washington, the Wizards send Brendan Haywood and Jarvis Hayes to the Hawks and the Hawks send Salim Stoudamire, Esteban Batista and Lorenzen Wright to the Blazers?

Just play along here.

The salaries work (go ahead and check to see if it works, I already did. That ESPN.com trade machine is the best cheating tool ever). And each team gets something they desperately need, though the Hawks would have to give up assets to get a deal done, but Haywood is that shot-blocking big the Hawks are in desperate need of and Hayes, injury prone as he is, is a nice sized shooting threat and solid roster addition.

Admittedly, I wouldn’t be wild about losing a long-range bomber like Stoudamire, who could flourish under the right circumstances. Wright’s been a huge influence in the Hawks’ locker room. And Batista is arguably the Hawks’ most fearless (and feared for his rugged ways) player.

But you always have to give up something (well, in most cases) to get something in return.

Would you do the deal? Would you pull the trigger and make this deal happen or would you hold out for something else? Something better?

[TODD]

First of all, the AJC constitution article warrants its own thread, so lets not stray from the topic here. (Second of all, we don't get Salim, Wright, etc... we would receive Magliore).

Back on topic...

Hands, you have been making this argument for three years, so I applaud you for your consistency. But what would be the point of bringing Antawn off the bench? It would firstly be upsetting what is already working and working quite well.

What Jamison lacks in his size and strength as PF (which isn't as big of a deficiency some are making it out to be) he is rewarding in that he is a good to very good defensive rebounder and he can run the floor and get back in transition, which is VERY important to a team like the Wizards who are bombs-away every night. I also cannot underscore enough the value this has early in the game where we need to establish our tempo. You can argue that maybe we could move Jamison for someone more defensive minded, but his abilities play very well into our early-game strategy. Placing Etan into the game that early would hurt us as the game would slow down and we would be less likely to go on big runs early.

Finally, if Jamison is playing 40 minutes a game, does it really matter enough to upset chemistry and potentially have one of our most important players take this the wrong way?

[arenasisgod]

19 and 10 a game = legit power forward. People should be applauding the way the wiz crank it up night after night. You think a team that has haywood and etan out there is going to have 41-point fourth quarters?

[tundey]

I'll say we wait until Songaila comes back before we trade anyone for defensive reasons. If everybody gets back healthy and we still suck on defense, then explore trades. But why would you trade 1 of the 3 scorers on the team to get a defensive player when you may already have a solution on the bench? Plus if Jamison goes who picks up the slack? Hayes that can't hit anything right now? Or a bench that's consistently outscored by the other team's bench?

[CooleyKnight]

Would not want to give up Jamison. He is a crucial part of the team. I would like to see some of the PF stay healthy though. All we need is someone who gets double digit rebounds every game and scores 12-15 points. I would be happy to have a center that would do this as well.

[mboyd784]

I'll say we wait until Songaila comes back before we trade anyone for defensive reasons. If everybody gets back healthy and we still suck on defense, then explore trades. But why would you trade 1 of the 3 scorers on the team to get a defensive player when you may already have a solution on the bench? Plus if Jamison goes who picks up the slack? Hayes that can't hit anything right now? Or a bench that's consistently outscored by the other team's bench?

Took the words right outta my mouth.

[jcl6f]

:D

Well, I am well documented with my evaluation of his game and his importance to the team. I definitely think he causes the team huge defensive problems. But I'm not sure I have the GM knowledge to say moving him off the team would help. I am concerned about chemistry. Plus, I personally prefer to wait our own guys that got us here, to get us over the top.

I lean toward growing threw this problem with what we have. Growing our players, getting healthy, and better coaching decisions to max AJs upside while covering for his weakness. Resign him for less and make him a bench player were his match ups are easier.

My opinion is that he is the main reason we have to rack up so many points to win. He just cant cover on D if someone takes him one-on-one and he cant rotate to cover the 3. Having a post player like that is to tough to cover up against a lot of teams and almost all the good teams.

Teams like Dallas, SA, etc are going to chew us up unless we understand the problem and commit to a solution. Right now, that solution is giving Blatche more PT so he gets better. Specially one night that AJ is getting chewed up
Sure we may loss some today, but we will be way better off for many years moving forward. Its the Brunell syndrome.

When Etan gets back, we need to start playing combos of him, Haywood and Blatche more and specifically anytime we need D. Come Feb 16, we can add Sangaila to the mix.

We aren't going to make it very far until these moves happens.


That's precisely what I was thinking about. I can see that trading Jamison would probably mess up chemistry. But getting Thomas, Blatche, and Haywood involved sounds like a good idea. We definitely need more height and strength inside.

[LiveStrongSkins]

You dont trade Jamison. If anything you re-sign him to a smaller deal when his contract his up and he gives you crucial minutes coming off the bench. This team needs his steady play and leadership. You can say what you want about defense but one guy being able to play post defense isnt going to solve any defensive problems we have. The way we run invites teams to run and gun because they get a ton more possessions when playing against us. Trading Jamison would take away 20 points a night and give other teams a chance to slow us down on the offensive end.

[hands11]

First of all, the AJC constitution article warrants its own thread, so lets not stray from the topic here. (Second of all, we don't get Salim, Wright, etc... we would receive Magliore).

Back on topic...

Hands, you have been making this argument for three years, so I applaud you for your consistency. But what would be the point of bringing Antawn off the bench? It would firstly be upsetting what is already working and working quite well.

What Jamison lacks in his size and strength as PF (which isn't as big of a deficiency some are making it out to be) he is rewarding in that he is a good to very good defensive rebounder and he can run the floor and get back in transition, which is VERY important to a team like the Wizards who are bombs-away every night. I also cannot underscore enough the value this has early in the game where we need to establish our tempo. You can argue that maybe we could move Jamison for someone more defensive minded, but his abilities play very well into our early-game strategy. Placing Etan into the game that early would hurt us as the game would slow down and we would be less likely to go on big runs early.

Finally, if Jamison is playing 40 minutes a game, does it really matter enough to upset chemistry and potentially have one of our most important players take this the wrong way?

All good points and nicely stated. Sure there is risk in change but there is also reward. It would be great if EJ could pull this off in a more suttle way.

Its hard to describe in every detail what I would do in "text". Its more of the processes. Its going to take feel to try different things.

Sure, some nights having AJ start does get us out of the gate, and we run away from teams. Thats great.

I see the problem more were, like the other night we lost, this doesnt happen and AJ is getting toasted on D and we dont make the change. As a first step, before bringing him from the bench, I would like to see this addressed. Instead EJ leavs him in and pulls Haywood for Booth. Thats not addressing the problem. Actually, that change makes it worse.

The next step after adress that first issue would be, on some nights, start Haywood and Etan or some combination of Haywood, Etan or Blatche... Lets see what happens. We havent had a chance to see what this would do. Etan, can run, so can Blatche and Gil, Caron and DS can fill it up. Tougher D and scoring can be a way to pull away from a team also.

This is all Im looking for in the short term.

[hands11]

You dont trade Jamison. If anything you re-sign him to a smaller deal when his contract his up and he gives you crucial minutes coming off the bench. This team needs his steady play and leadership. You can say what you want about defense but one guy being able to play post defense isnt going to solve any defensive problems we have. The way we run invites teams to run and gun because they get a ton more possessions when playing against us. Trading Jamison would take away 20 points a night and give other teams a chance to slow us down on the offensive end.

I disagree. Changing one players defensive problems when that player starts and plays in the post can change a lot. Specially when all the other players are decent to good defensive players. Besides the basic math (1/5 of the D, 20%), we are talking about a post defender. That probably equates to at least 35% of the D, probably more. It depends on what the other team is focused on. If they going one-on-one from the outside or playing transition ball, it isn't a problem. If they are going one-on-one against him or going post then dishing and swinging the ball around the horn, then its a huge problem. Playoff ball tends to be the later, unless your playing the Suns.

But trading him isn't the answer.

[Sticksboi05]

Can you give me a real link?

thanks

How bout you figure it out on your own and be happy someone told you.

Thanks.

[Thinking Skins]

I was in favor of trading Jamison but as of lately I'm just happy watching us win. And I'd hate to see us mess it up by trying to be greedy. Jamison is a part of the big three and given he has off games, he is a perfect compliment to Arenas and Butler. Plus we've got guys on the bench who we are developing and who may be getting more playing time at PF as the season goes on, ala Blache.

[FuriousOne2K]

Kevin Garnett BABYY!!!

[Chachie]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[LightAgent]

Kevin Garnett BABYY!!!

:applause: That would be great....If anyone could pull it off it's EG

[twenty-eight]

How bout you figure it out on your own and be happy someone told you.

Thanks.

and whats the reason for you being an *******? I wasn't trying to call you out...you provided a BS link and wanted to know if you had the right one. Why dont you start posting legit links...thats probably the reason youre in the NNT group:dunce:


thanks

[chronicdesi]

There should be NO trades made until we see what Songalia can do for us. You want someone whos less of a liability, we already have him on the team. These trade threads need to end soon. When we hate on the 'skins for such inconsistencies in their roster, why are we now hating on the wiz for keeping good chemistry...

[MoochieDC_86]

There should be NO trades made until we see what Songalia can do for us. You want someone whos less of a liability, we already have him on the team. These trade threads need to end soon. When we hate on the 'skins for such inconsistencies in their roster, why are we now hating on the wiz for keeping good chemistry...

I really think Songalia is going to be waaaay outta shape when he returns.

[chronicdesi]

I really think Songalia is going to be waaaay outta shape when he returns.

That may be true, but honestly I think he will be able to contribute more towards the end of the season. We are doing fine with Jamison in our lineup. We take a HUGE risk dealing him somewhere, and hoping we get a good player in return that won't mess up our chemistry. We take less of a risk by keeping Jamison and seeing what Songalia can do.

All in all:

Trading Jamison and risking a loss in chemistry seems much more likely than Songalia being that ineffective after a few weeks from his return.

[helster878]

much of our success actually comes from the fact that we play small--while jamison is no match for bigger players defensivley he's way too quick for any typical 4-- if low post defense was really our priority we could play caron @ the 2, jamison @ the 3 and bring either etan or blatche @ the 4 and bring stevenson as a defensive stopper--both jamison and butler have played those positions on other teams...

however we have taken more advantage of the offensive mismatches that a 4 guard offense causes this year than the other team has taken advantage of our defensive mismatch--EJ's risk has been rewarded w/ wins. Besides, part of Gil's success besides being sweet is the fact that both jamison and butler take attention away from him--anyone we replace jamison w/ would have to have equal offensive ability for gil to remain as successful

[Sticksboi05]

and whats the reason for you being an *******? I wasn't trying to call you out...you provided a BS link and wanted to know if you had the right one. Why dont you start posting legit links...thats probably the reason youre in the NNT group:dunce:


thanks

Sorry dude. I took that the wrong way. And do NOT remind me of that. I was placed for no apparent reason. Anyway, I thought you were saying my source was bs. Lol, misunderstanding. :cheers:

[kreitmaster]

Kenyon Martin, who is out for the season, and Gooden are not quality true PFs. Yes, I would love to trade Jamison for a good, true PF. PAU GASOL would be perfect. Jamison is getting old, is breaking down, plays no D, and too often not clutch. I started a thread like this last year, and stand by it. Jamison does great things on offense, but he will constantly have knee problems as he gets older. I would not move him for the sake of moving him, but if we can get an equal guy who does different stuff, like Pau I would certainly do it. Just my opinion.

[twenty-eight]

Sorry dude. I took that the wrong way. And do NOT remind me of that. I was placed for no apparent reason. Anyway, I thought you were saying my source was bs. Lol, misunderstanding. :cheers:

It's all good!!!:cheers:

[Warhead36]

We have our legit PF on the roster.

Blatche tonight with:

10 points, 8 boards, 3 blocks, 2 steals in 14 minutes

[twenty-eight]

We have our legit PF on the roster.

Blatche tonight with:

10 points, 8 boards, 3 blocks, 2 steals in 14 minutes

AMAZING. Give the dude 20 mins a game...




For all of you that want Jamison gone....

He is averaging careers highs in....

Rebounds
defensive rebounds
Field Goal %
Three point %

Jamison is a solid player, he would be great as our 4th/5th option like he was in dallas (sixth man)