US 2- Mexico 0

[Kilmer17]

They must be tired of seeing that scoreline. For those keeping track (like me) that's 7-0-1 in the last 8 games in the US in this rivalry. And in that time, the US has scored 13 goals to Mexico's ZERO. That's NIL, NADA, NYET.

a Shaky first half, but a stellar 2nd half by the US. That's 2 games in a row that Bornstein has looked solid if not brilliant at times at left back. Man of the match though was obviosly Jimmy Conrad. Brilliant at the central defense and scores on the header.

Just a great game overall for the US.

And did everyone see the attempted cheap shot by the Mexican keeper after Landons goal?

What a classless a-hole. But what do you expect from Mexico. They refuse to even shake hands after the matches now.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I count down the days to US vs Mexico soccer matches and the weeks worth of ****-talking I get out of them.

[gbear]

Didn't they take their a-team too?

I wish I had seen the game.

Any clue as to whether the coach will get to remove his "interm" tag any time soon?

[Kilmer17]

Didn't they take their a-team too?

I wish I had seen the game.

Any clue as to whether the coach will get to remove his "interm" tag any time soon?


Yes, Mexico brought their entire A-side. By there own admission.

Our's was a mixed bag. Only 3 Euros on the field and only 2 guys (Landon and Mastroeni) that played the last time the two teams played in the WC qualifier 1.5 years ago.

I really dont think the intent was for Bradley to ever lose that title. I think the Fed is waiting until next fall to grab a big name coach. But if he keeps winning games like this (only the 2nd coach ever out of 33 to win his first 2 matches) that thought process may change.

Also, for those interested, the Denmark team the US beat 3-1 a few eeks ago beat Austalia 3-0.

[jrockster21]

International soccer is still going on? :laugh:

EDIT: I thought that German guy was going to coach us.

[Fergasun]

I really thought the 2nd goal was funny....

Mexico bounced it off the referee... so it was kind've cheap but the USA guy split 2 defenders for a break-away.

[skinsngibbs4life]

I watched the entire game (had more appeal to me then UNC/Duke), and I must say, I was pleasently surprised.

Jimmy Conrad played a GREAT game for us. Not only did he get essentially the winning goal for us, he was steller on the defensive side of the ball.

Tim howard, altough he looked shaky in the first 5-10 minutes, actually seemed to play pretty well.

Donovan had a pretty decent game with an assist and a goal. Even though his goal was kind of a gift from the ref, he still did a great job beating two defenders, and eventually beating the keeper.

As for the mexican keeper; what a D-bag. What a classless b*tch. When I first saw the video of the goal, I kinda saw him slide but wasnt sure what he was trying to do. But after seeing it again, I realized he was going after Johnson. I should feel surprised at this act, but then again, it is Mexico, so what can toy expect?

Nice to see a 63,000 seat stadium sold out for this game(regardless of whether it was filled mostly of mexican fans)

[Kilmer17]

I really thought the 2nd goal was funny....

Mexico bounced it off the referee... so it was kind've cheap but the USA guy split 2 defenders for a break-away.


Definitely a break. But Landons speed is the reason for the goal, not the lucky bounce. He simply ran by the two Mexicans like they were statues.

[skinsngibbs4life]

International soccer is still going on? :laugh:

EDIT: I thought that German guy was going to coach us.

stick with rugby ;) :laugh:

[Kilmer17]

Howard scares the hell out of me. Only because Im accustomed to having either Friedel or Keller back there who NEVER allow rebounds. Howard is probably a more gifted keeper in terms of movement, athleticism etc, but I'd love for him to work with an NFL receivers coach to learn how to hold onto the ball better.

[skinsngibbs4life]

Howard scares the hell out of me. Only because Im accustomed to having either Friedel or Keller back there who NEVER allow rebounds. Howard is probably a more gifted keeper in terms of movement, athleticism etc, but I'd love for him to work with an NFL receivers coach to learn how to hold onto the ball better.
yeah there were a couple times that scared me. Esspecially times when he could have easily caught the ball, but kind of let it bounce off his hands. Luckily the mexican guy was too far away to do anything about it, and Howard jumped up it, but still.

He hd some good positioning on the night though. On that corner where the mexican guy was wide open on the back post and should have had the open goal, Howard was right there to get it.

[Kilmer17]

yeah there were a couple times that scared me. Esspecially times when he could have easily caught the ball, but kind of let it bounce off his hands. Luckily the mexican guy was too far away to do anything about it, and Howard jumped up it, but still.

He hd some good positioning on the night though. On that corner where the mexican guy was wide open on the back post and should have had the open goal, Howard was right there to get it.


He's a world class keeper without a doubt. And I think better than Keller or Friedel at this point. But there was a calming affect with KK in the net because you KNEW if he got a hand on a ball it was dead.

[jrockster21]

stick with rugby ;) :laugh:

So the German guy isn't coaching us? :whoknows:

[Maxito]

Saw the entire 2nd half of the game. We played well, but we were lucky to kept Mexico socreless. Even though Conrad played a great game, the rest of the defense needs to play better. There were plenty of chances that Mexico had to tie the game or even take the lead.

Has for the goalie Sanchez, that was a cheap shot he attempted. Good thing that he missed, cause it would not been pretty. Like one of the commentators said last night that FIFA should disipline him.

When is the next US match.

[skinsngibbs4life]

by the way, whats up with US and bald keepers? The last like 5 keepers for us have been bald or balding. I was actually kind of shocked to see Howard losing it.

Also, is Howard actually playing for Everton? Or is he 2nd string? I know he is on loan, but didnt know if he was getting anytime.

[skinsngibbs4life]

When is the next US match.

March 25th vs. Ecuador
then March 28th vs. Guatemala

Both games being played in the in Flordia and Texas

[Kilmer17]

by the way, whats up with US and bald keepers? The last like 5 keepers for us have been bald or balding. I was actually kind of shocked to see Howard losing it.

Also, is Howard actually playing for Everton? Or is he 2nd string? I know he is on loan, but didnt know if he was getting anytime.


He's splitting time starting.

Next US match is March 24 or 25th in Tampa!!!!! It will be my sons first USMNT match.

[skinsngibbs4life]

He's splitting time starting.

Next US match is March 24 or 25th in Tampa!!!!! It will be my sons first USMNT match.

congrats on the kilmer. I have yet to see them play in person :doh:

[Johnny Punani]

HAHAHA

A couple of days ago I was flippihng through the channels and landed on a spanish speaking channel. They were doing the news and talked about the match between the US and Mexico. They called it "Eternal Enemies". I guess the Mexicans really hate us.

[Major Harris]

So the German guy isn't coaching us? :whoknows:
nope. seemed to be a done deal, klinsmann pulled out at the last minute. i'm sure others know more details than me.

[Kilmer17]

nope. seemed to be a done deal, klinsmann pulled out at the last minute. i'm sure others know more details than me.


He wanted complete control over all of the mens teams. Including the U-23s (Which Arena had control over) and the U-20s and U-17s. The Fed wasnt willing to give that to him up front, but didnt rule out giv ing him that power eventually. Klinns said no thanks, but also said he would be open for further discussions down the road.

[jrockster21]

He wanted complete control over all of the mens teams. Including the U-23s (Which Arena had control over) and the U-20s and U-17s. The Fed wasnt willing to give that to him up front, but didnt rule out giv ing him that power eventually. Klinns said no thanks, but also said he would be open for further discussions down the road.


It makes sense that he should be in charge of the younger squads; why wouldn't they do that? I mean, if he's building the squad to his specifications, he should be able to do his own farming as well. :2cents:

Reason #234566 that we will always suck at soccer.

[Kilmer17]

It makes sense that he should be in charge of the younger squads; why wouldn't they do that? I mean, if he's building the squad to his specifications, he should be able to do his own farming as well. :2cents:

Reason #234566 that we will always suck at soccer.


It's never a complete soccer thread until an uninformed soccerhater chips in his two cents about why we suck.

Thanks for the input.

[HSW]

They must be tired of seeing that scoreline. For those keeping track (like me) that's 7-0-1 in the last 8 games in the US in this rivalry. And in that time, the US has scored 13 goals to Mexico's ZERO. That's NIL, NADA, NYET.

a Shaky first half, but a stellar 2nd half by the US. That's 2 games in a row that Bornstein has looked solid if not brilliant at times at left back. Man of the match though was obviosly Jimmy Conrad. Brilliant at the central defense and scores on the header.

Just a great game overall for the US.

And did everyone see the attempted cheap shot by the Mexican keeper after Landons goal?

What a classless a-hole. But what do you expect from Mexico. They refuse to even shake hands after the matches now.

Loved the win but we were lucky to pull it out. The second half
was a joke. We gave them at least 5 super easy chances to tie
it up. Our defense just crumbled. We won but it was because
they just sucked on offense in the second half. I did love seeing
all of the Mexican fans on the verge of tears at the end though.

[Kilmer17]

Loved the win but we were lucky to pull it out. The second half
was a joke. We gave them at least 5 super easy chances to tie
it up. Our defense just crumbled. We won but it was because
they just sucked on offense in the second half. I did love seeing
all of the Mexican fans on the verge of tears at the end though.

I thought our Def played great. Mexico had 2 legit chances imo, Borghetti missed a header, but that wasnt a def lapse, just a great play, and at the end the ball skipped under the Mex legs. But the game was 2-0 at that point.

As for chances, what about Convey 1-1 with the keeper and hits it right at him?

[jrockster21]

It's never a complete soccer thread until an uninformed soccerhater chips in his two cents about why we suck.

Thanks for the input.


I may not be a huge soccer fan, but I still have a valid point. And I would still like to see the US succeed, as would most people.

But way to side-step my comment with the old "hater" deflection! :thumbsup:

[skinsngibbs4life]

I thought our Def played great. Mexico had 2 legit chances imo, Borghetti missed a header, but that wasnt a def lapse, just a great play, and at the end the ball skipped under the Mex legs. But the game was 2-0 at that point.

As for chances, what about Convey 1-1 with the keeper and hits it right at him?

well, and wasnt our big CB not there? Onyewo. Who was still over in Europe playing for Newcastle. Even though he had a rough World Cup, I still think he will turn into a great player for this team.

[Sisyphus]

I caught a little and I thought the US defense looked very shaky when it played so flat. It seemed to be playing to the Mexican's strengths.

2-0 is a solid result though.

What ever happened to home-field advantage - playing Mexico in Arizona? Shouldn't the US play Mexico outdoors in Minnesota at this time of year? :D

[Kilmer17]

I may not be a huge soccer fan, but I still have a valid point. And I would still like to see the US succeed, as would most people.

But way to side-step my comment with the old "hater" deflection! :thumbsup:


You dont have any point at all. It's not that it's invalid, it's just nothing.

No Federation in the world gives that kind of power to it's Natl Team coach currently. And it's insane for us to do it. The time and energy needed to run the Mens Team alone is more than most can handle. Bradley is still in charge of the U-23s and leaves TODAY to start camp with them for the upcoming toruney. Add to that the U20 WC is this summer AT THE SAME TIME AS THE CONFED CUP, and it becomes obvious why USSOCCER didnt let Klinsmann have those duties.

Further to your "point" we dont suck. We just beat the 5th ranked team in the world 2-0 with our B-side for the most part.

You can claim otherwise, but adding to this thread, your true motive is transparent. It's just a chance to take a dig at US Soccer.

[Kilmer17]

I caught a little and I thought the US defense looked very shaky when it played so flat. It seemed to be playing to the Mexican's strengths.

2-0 is a solid result though.

What ever happened to home-field advantage - playing Mexico in Arizona? Shouldn't the US play Mexico outdoors in Minnesota at this time of year? :D


Do you realize how much money US SOCCER made by playing it there? Trust me, when it's games that count, we wont be anywhere near the border. If we can find a stadium in Alaska, it will probably get considered. But for a friendly, the team will gladly take the Mexican fans money to make them watch us beat them again.

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

I thought our Def played great. Mexico had 2 legit chances imo, Borghetti missed a header, but that wasnt a def lapse, just a great play, and at the end the ball skipped under the Mex legs. But the game was 2-0 at that point.



And you are calling jrock uninformed? :laugh:
The DEF was very suspect. They may not have had all their big names (def), but what was on the field was not inspiring at all.

Conrad played great though. I was not impressed with Donovan except for the goal. He showed why he COULD be a great player for us. He just doesn't show it that often. :2cents:


.

[jrockster21]

No Federation in the world gives that kind of power to it's Natl Team coach currently. And it's insane for us to do it. The time and energy needed to run the Mens Team alone is more than most can handle. Bradley is still in charge of the U-23s and leaves TODAY to start camp with them for the upcoming toruney. Add to that the U20 WC is this summer AT THE SAME TIME AS THE CONFED CUP, and it becomes obvious why USSOCCER didnt let Klinsmann have those duties.

Control over it can mean anything from running it 100% to putting his guys in charge of the programs. So no, its not obvious. US Soccer was obviously unwilling to concede anything.


Further to your "point" we dont suck. We just beat the 5th ranked team in the world 2-0 with our B-side for the most part.

And FIFA rankings mean....what exactly? Wasn't the US the 5th ranked team in the world going into last years WC? :laugh: And as you pointed out, we've beaten Mexico pretty soundly the past few times we've played them. Fat lot of good that did us in the WC. We scored exactly ZERO GOALS.


You can claim otherwise, but adding to this thread, your true motive is transparent. It's just a chance to take a dig at US Soccer.

No, I just think you're a soccer snob, trying to look down your nose at anyone who has a negative opinion of our soccer squad. We DO stink. Our WC and international record prove that. Our lack of players in Europe proves that. The lack of support for soccer in the US proves that.

[Blighty Skins]

And imagine, if you had Klinsmann now...you'd probaby've lost because he'd be "learning the ropes". Well done on the win, Mexico are always a good side to beat. Saying that, it's good for the Americans over at the Premier league too...your players are doing well at Fulham and Liverpool is now American owned. I think that makes 3 overall.

[Blighty Skins]

Control over it can mean anything from running it 100% to putting his guys in charge of the programs. So no, its not obvious. US Soccer was obviously unwilling to concede anything.



And FIFA rankings mean....what exactly? Wasn't the US the 5th ranked team in the world going into last years WC? :laugh: And as you pointed out, we've beaten Mexico pretty soundly the past few times we've played them. Fat lot of good that did us in the WC. We scored exactly ZERO GOALS.



No, I just think you're a soccer snob, trying to look down your nose at anyone who has a negative opinion of our soccer squad. We DO stink. Our WC and international record prove that. Our lack of players in Europe proves that. The lack of support for soccer in the US proves that.

You have a bit of a point...I have to agree. Teams are split between those who play friendlies like they are finals and actually mean something beyond experimenting i.e. England is guilty of this. And sides who can't care less if they win or lose frendlies i.e. Italy. I'm not sure which category Mexico is in...but you're right. Fifa rankings and these matches count for so much.

[Kilmer17]

Control over it can mean anything from running it 100% to putting his guys in charge of the programs. So no, its not obvious. US Soccer was obviously unwilling to concede anything.



And FIFA rankings mean....what exactly? Wasn't the US the 5th ranked team in the world going into last years WC? :laugh: And as you pointed out, we've beaten Mexico pretty soundly the past few times we've played them. Fat lot of good that did us in the WC. We scored exactly ZERO GOALS.



No, I just think you're a soccer snob, trying to look down your nose at anyone who has a negative opinion of our soccer squad. We DO stink. Our WC and international record prove that. Our lack of players in Europe proves that. The lack of support for soccer in the US proves that.

Dont let facts get in the way of your soccerhatred.

We have over 50 Americans playing in Domestic leagues in Europe now. And more than a handful on top squads. More and more go every year.

We also had 2 goals in the last WC, not ZERO as you claimed. And were the only team in the entire torunament to get a point off of the eventual champions.

And you're right, I am a soccer snob. And i will constantly and continuously point out the idiocy of soccer haters when they think any of us are interested in there opinions about how much we suck. And there's plenty of you on the board to keep me busy.

I dont mind people that dont understand the sport. Or just dont care. What I mind is people who dislike the sport always feeling the need to tell those of us who like it their opinions. We get it, you dont like or understand it. We got it the first dozen times any of you posted it. Thanks.

Blighty, I think you're right about Klins, I would bet he'd have lost the first few games because I think he would have made radical changes right away.

[Kilmer17]

You have a bit of a point...I have to agree. Teams are split between those who play friendlies like they are finals and actually mean something beyond experimenting i.e. England is guilty of this. And sides who can't care less if they win or lose frendlies i.e. Italy. I'm not sure which category Mexico is in...but you're right. Fifa rankings and these matches count for so much.


Mexico, by their own admission, brought home their A-players. 15 guys on the roster played in the last WC. Including 8 starters. This was far more than a friendly.

[Blighty Skins]

Mexico, by their own admission, brought home their A-players. 15 guys on the roster played in the last WC. Including 8 starters. This was far more than a friendly.

Then it's a good achievement. Mexico has always scared me. They are a strange mixture of South American flair and the European Physical game. Looks like the US has gotten the upper hand over them on the psychological front. This'll probably help when you do actually meet them in a proper tournament. :applause:

[Kilmer17]

Then it's a good achievement. Mexico has always scared me. They are a strange mixture of South American flair and the European Physical game. Looks like the US has gotten the upper hand over them on the psychological front. This'll probably help when you do actually meet them in a proper tournament. :applause:

It's odd. Mexico does much much better against European teams and damn near dominates everyone in South America except Brazil, but including Argentina. The US is just built for a team like Mexico (and teams that play similar styles, see Portugal 2002). They play a steady and smart defense and wait to beat them with a counter. Euro teams tend to respect them more than they should and dont adjust to attack enough.

And at this point, it has become a psych issue.

And FTR, we beat them 2-0 the only time we ever met in the WC. 2nd round 2002.

[Hooper]

I watched the game and was disappointed that we still seem to have a helluva time generating any kind of shots. Same problem we had in the cup -- the style of play doesn't generate enough opportunities.

[Kilmer17]

I watched the game and was disappointed that we still seem to have a helluva time generating any kind of shots. Same problem we had in the cup -- the style of play doesn't generate enough opportunities.

Agreed, we desperately need to develop a forward willing to pull the trigger from anywhere. It's a shame Clint Mathis became a fat toad.

[Warhead36]

Take away the games played at ridiculous Los Azteca(where no visitor seems to win)we OWN Mexico.

[Kilmer17]

Ah yes, the class that is the Mexican Soccer player-

http://www.milenio.com/guadalajara/m....asp?id=475896

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oswaldo Sanchez reflected what was Mexico last night at the University of Phoenix stadium. The Santos Laguna goalkeeper left the locker room angry and could not hide it. The helplessness overcame him. Faithful to his ways, he was not careful with his mouth when it came to discussing the loss against the United States.

When he found out minutes earlier that a few of the U.S. players criticized him for trying to injure Johnson after the second goal via Landon Donovan from the Stars and Stripes team, Sanchez was sharp-worded with his reply, “I don’t give a s*** what they say. F*** their mothers.”


Awesome awesome awesome.

It reminds me of the banner draped on the highway in LA after we beat them 2-0 in the world cup 02.

"Dear Mexico, now we're better than you at everything."

[Hokie_Skinz]

Ah yes, the class that is the Mexican Soccer player-

http://www.milenio.com/guadalajara/m....asp?id=475896

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oswaldo Sanchez reflected what was Mexico last night at the University of Phoenix stadium. The Santos Laguna goalkeeper left the locker room angry and could not hide it. The helplessness overcame him. Faithful to his ways, he was not careful with his mouth when it came to discussing the loss against the United States.

When he found out minutes earlier that a few of the U.S. players criticized him for trying to injure Johnson after the second goal via Landon Donovan from the Stars and Stripes team, Sanchez was sharp-worded with his reply, “I don’t give a s*** what they say. F*** their mothers.”


Awesome awesome awesome.

It reminds me of the banner draped on the highway in LA after we beat them 2-0 in the world cup 02.

"Dear Mexico, now we're better than you at everything."
Haha, thats great. Kilmer, what do you think the team needs to get some of the offensive flair back they had in 2002. It has become painful to see them rely on counters that may not come.

[Kilmer17]

Haha, thats great. Kilmer, what do you think the team needs to get some of the offensive flair back they had in 2002. It has become painful to see them rely on counters that may not come.


I dont think it's tactics, I just dont think we currently have a player that is a world class striker. And as a result, they have to rely on what they DO have, which is speed and counter. There are a bunch of young (read under 20) players who have the potential, but who knows how they will turn out. It's encouraging to see them leave the US and go to Europe to play developmental games rather than head to US colleges though. That's a good start.

I also think that Donovan CAN be that kind of striker, but at the moment, he's the best option for Central Mid which is far more important and harder to find. I'll be happy to see Adu head to Europe next year as I think he can become the Central Mid and let Landon run free up top.

[Thanos]

When will we play Brazil in a friendly?

[Kilmer17]

When will we play Brazil in a friendly?

Probably never. We do play them often though in tournaments. They usually participate every few years in the Gold Cup and we are playing the Confed cup this summer.

Too far to travel honestly. All of Europe is much much closer. I'd love to see it though.

[jrockster21]

Dont let facts get in the way of your soccerhatred.

We have over 50 Americans playing in Domestic leagues in Europe now. And more than a handful on top squads. More and more go every year.

We also had 2 goals in the last WC, not ZERO as you claimed. And were the only team in the entire torunament to get a point off of the eventual champions.

Oh yeah; I forgot about the uber-intimidating OWN GOAL Italy scored against itself. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Who else did we score against - Ghana? You're right. We scored ONE OFFENSIVE GOAL. Man...talk about GOOD! WOOOOO!


And you're right, I am a soccer snob. And i will constantly and continuously point out the idiocy of soccer haters when they think any of us are interested in there opinions about how much we suck. And there's plenty of you on the board to keep me busy.

I dont mind people that dont understand the sport. Or just dont care. What I mind is people who dislike the sport always feeling the need to tell those of us who like it their opinions. We get it, you dont like or understand it. We got it the first dozen times any of you posted it. Thanks.

Well, you've got me pegged! I simply hate soccer, and post only to talk ish. :rolleyes: Maybe you're just a homer, and don't realize how bad we actually are. Sure, we're getting "better." But the fact remains that we can't attract a good coach, we scored one goal in the world cup and won ZERO games. The results don't lie.

[Kilmer17]

Oh yeah; I forgot about the uber-intimidating OWN GOAL Italy scored against itself. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Who else did we score against - Ghana? You're right. We scored ONE OFFENSIVE GOAL. Man...talk about GOOD! WOOOOO!



Well, you've got me pegged! I simply hate soccer, and post only to talk ish. :rolleyes: Maybe you're just a homer, and don't realize how bad we actually are. Sure, we're getting "better." But the fact remains that we can't attract a good coach, we scored one goal in the world cup and won ZERO games. The results don't lie.


blah blah blah


blah blah
blah.

We get it man, you dont like soccer and think we suck. Thanks. Please leave the rest of the thread to those of us interested in talking about it in depth and beyond just "we suck, we have no coach ad nauseum".

[skinsngibbs4life]

blah blah blah


blah blah
blah.

We get it man, you dont like soccer and think we suck. Thanks. Please leave the rest of the thread to those of us interested in talking about it in depth and beyond just "we suck, we have no coach ad nauseum".

exactly. No need to come in here and bash soccer to those that are actually trying to talk soccer. If you dont like it, dont come in.

[HSW]

I thought our Def played great. Mexico had 2 legit chances imo, Borghetti missed a header, but that wasnt a def lapse, just a great play, and at the end the ball skipped under the Mex legs. But the game was 2-0 at that point.

As for chances, what about Convey 1-1 with the keeper and hits it right at him?

Any decent club would have converted at least 2 of those opportunities.
P.S. The play where the ball skipped under the guys legs was
before we scored our second goal and would have tied the game up.;)
They had all the momentum at that point...it would have been
devestating.

[Kilmer17]

Any descent club would have converted at least 2 of those opportunities.
P.S. The play where the ball skipped under the guys legs was
before we scored our second goal and would have tied the game up.;)


It's too easy to play that game. The US should have converted a few others as well. Sometimes a missed opportunity is a direct result of a good defensive play (ie block int etc). Other times it's a subtle indirect result. Good positioning, forcing the opponent off of a good run, blocking line of site.

The line between winning and losing is very fine like that.

[jrockster21]

exactly. No need to come in here and bash soccer to those that are actually trying to talk soccer. If you dont like it, dont come in.


I'm not trying to bash soccer. I wanted to start discussion on why Klinsman wasn't given the control he wanted, and was immediately labeled a hater. I'm not a huge soccer fan, but I do like to see the US succeed in every sport, even soccer. Maybe you soccer snobs can get off your pedestals and actually look at the team rationally, and you wouldn't have so many "haters." :rolleyes:

Carry on with the snobbery.

[Kilmer17]

I'm not trying to bash soccer. I wanted to start discussion on why Klinsman wasn't given the control he wanted, and was immediately labeled a hater. I'm not a huge soccer fan, but I do like to see the US succeed in every sport, even soccer. Maybe you soccer snobs can get off your pedestals and actually look at the team rationally, and you wouldn't have so many "haters." :rolleyes:

Carry on with the snobbery.


Nice spin.

Your response to the reasons he wasnt hired was "reason 2134273 why we still suck at soccer".

You werent/arent interested in a discussion and you know it.

[jrockster21]

Nice spin.

Your response to the reasons he wasnt hired was "reason 2134273 why we still suck at soccer".

You werent/arent interested in a discussion and you know it.


Actually, I am. You just never gave it a shot and instantly jumped to conclusions. Yeah, I used some hyperbole, but I've said the Skins suck too; but OMFG, I still love them. :yikes:

[Kilmer17]

Fair enough.

For the same reason that Head Coaches in the NFL shouldnt be, and are rarely if ever succesful, GMs in the NFL.

The USMNT coach has a huge role. He's not just a game day coach. He has to deal with all of the coaches for all of the players listed on the USMNT potential roster (over 100 players currently). He has to keep up with who is playing where, how much they are playing, how well those teams are doing and on and on. Why? Because the coach of Premiership team get's mighty pissed if we call back a player right before a big match on their schedule for a weak friendly on ours.

Imagine Fulham with a match on Sat against the team right ahead of them in the table with a spot in the Champions League on the line. And we call him back for a Wed match against Japan in California. Then imagine he doesnt play because we decide to look at the next DMB instead? How likely would that coach be willing to let him leave the next time?

Now think about the responsibilities as the director (and in Bradleys case, the HC )of the U23s. Klinss was given this as well. Which means Olympic tournament prep, qualifying and the same situation with coaches and scheduling.

So on top of all of that, Klinns wanted control of the U20s and U17s. So he'd be dealing with a bunch of teenagers running around the world representing the US more interested in buying beer and chasing skirt than training and playing soccer. Plus imagine dealing with their parents.

So at any point in time, he's juggling 4 teams and dealing with all of the problems associated with each.

And finally. Great coaches take the talent they are given and mold a style to maximise their strengths (think Joe Gibbs developing the H back because he had big TEs and got tired of Lawrence Taylor blowing up running backs) and hide weaknesses. If he's got complete control, he's more likely to develop the big team the correct way, but look at the youth squads as miniteams and try to cram square pegs into round holes.

Our U17 squad plays a completely different style of soccer than the big boys. For various reason. 1- the defenders dont have huge forwards to worry about. Most of the players are about the same size. But more important, number 2- they've been playing overseas rather than in domestic youth leagues like most of the guys on the big squad.

Our team in 2014 will look nothing like our team looked in 2006 in terms of style of play.

Sorry if that was long winded.

[HSW]

It's too easy to play that game. The US should have converted a few others as well. Sometimes a missed opportunity is a direct result of a good defensive play (ie block int etc). Other times it's a subtle indirect result. Good positioning, forcing the opponent off of a good run, blocking line of site.

The line between winning and losing is very fine like that.

No game. Notice you avoid all the questions you cannot defend.
Our defense was bad and you were flat out wrong on the timing
of that critical miss by Mexico. :)

[Kilmer17]

No game. Notice you avoid all the questions you cannot defend.
Our defense was bad and you were flat out wrong on the timing
of that critical miss by Mexico. :)


Yes, our defense was so terrible that they only allowed zero goals. Terrible performance. :silly:

[Kilmer17]

And Im trying to confirm the timing of the nonshot that never came close to going in. I have it TIVO'd but Im trying to find a play by play.

If Im wrong, it doesnt change the fact that our d played well enough on that play to not allow the shot off.

[HSW]

Yes, our defense was so terrible that they only allowed zero goals. Terrible performance. :silly:

So you still say our defense was great and that is why Mexico did not score?

Notice you still cannot admit you were wrong on the missed play....:)

They did not even have a shot on our goal after we
scored the second time. That last goal was in the final seconds
of penalty time. What game were you watching?

[Kilmer17]

So you still say our defense was great and that is why Mexico did not score?

Notice you still cannot admit you were wrong on the missed play....:)


I think a clean sheet means the defense played great. That was Mexico's A side. I think they can play even BETTER, but let's not diminish the shutout.

And I havent confirmed the timing of the other play. But as I said, it's not that big of a deal.

[Kilmer17]

So you still say our defense was great and that is why Mexico did not score?

Notice you still cannot admit you were wrong on the missed play....:)

They did not even have a shot on our goal after we
scored the second time. That last goal was in the final seconds
of penalty time. What game were you watching?


The one where we scored 2 and they scored none.

[HSW]

I think a clean sheet means the defense played great. That was Mexico's A side. I think they can play even BETTER, but let's not diminish the shutout.

And I havent confirmed the timing of the other play. But as I said, it's not that big of a deal.


I have not heard this much double talk since the last election.

Do you think the defense played great like you said or not?

The missed play is a big deal until you can learn to admit when you
are wrong.;)

[Kilmer17]

I have not heard this much double talk since the last election.

Do you think the defense played great like you said or not?

The missed play is a big deal until you can learn to admit when you
are wrong.;)


I'll speak slower.

YES, THE DEFENSE PLAYED GREAT.

How much better can a shutout become?

[HSW]

I'll speak slower.

YES, THE DEFENSE PLAYED GREAT.

How much better can a shutout become?

Hard to get a straight answer out of you sometimes.
at least you finally took a firm stand. Good for you.:cool:

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

And finally. Great coaches take the talent they are given and mold a style to maximise their strengths (think Joe Gibbs developing the H back because he had big TEs and got tired of Lawrence Taylor blowing up running backs) and hide weaknesses. If he's got complete control, he's more likely to develop the big team the correct way, but look at the youth squads as miniteams and try to cram square pegs into round holes.

Our U17 squad plays a completely different style of soccer than the big boys. For various reason. 1- the defenders dont have huge forwards to worry about. Most of the players are about the same size. But more important, number 2- they've been playing overseas rather than in domestic youth leagues like most of the guys on the big squad.

Our team in 2014 will look nothing like our team looked in 2006 in terms of style of play.


While I agree with your other points, I disagree about the above.

The US needs a national style of play. Italy, Brazil, Germany, etc. have a style of play that is enforced at the younger stages of players development. That is why these countries are ALWAYS good. England is a perfect example of a team that tries to throw players together without a specific style. And look what that has got them since 1960. It takes years to develope a winning style and we need to start now. The U20 & U17's need to be playing a style that will ALSO be played by the National Club. No single coach can start that at the National Team level.

When this happens the US will gets the results that we should be getting with the talent out there. :2cents:



.

[jrockster21]

When this happens the US will gets the results that we should be getting with the talent out there. :2cents:


I agree.

Kilmer, the NFL is not a valid comparison, because NFL GMs/HCs don't have a particular college associated with their team that they stock with high school talent of their choosing. They aren't farming anyone, they are taking chances on an unknown. This is exactly the reason why someone overseeing the whole thing is a good idea; they can start earlier, and begin to indoctrinate the style of play from an early age. There are countless examples of NFL draft busts which validate my point.

A more valid comparison is Major League Baseball. Each team has its own farm organization, and puts their own people in charge of it. They draft a guy, then put him through their farm system, with their guys, developing them how they see fit. Its a little different because baseball is essentially the same, but the principle is the same.

Also, I don't see why Klinsmen has to oversee every last detail. He's got assistants for that, and if he's a good leader, he'd delegate responsibility anyway. :2cents:

[Kilmer17]

I agree.

Kilmer, the NFL is not a valid comparison, because NFL GMs/HCs don't have a particular college associated with their team that they stock with high school talent of their choosing. They aren't farming anyone, they are taking chances on an unknown. This is exactly the reason why someone overseeing the whole thing is a good idea; they can start earlier, and begin to indoctrinate the style of play from an early age. There are countless examples of NFL draft busts which validate my point.

A more valid comparison is Major League Baseball. Each team has its own farm organization, and puts their own people in charge of it. They draft a guy, then put him through their farm system, with their guys, developing them how they see fit. Its a little different because baseball is essentially the same, but the principle is the same.

Also, I don't see why Klinsmen has to oversee every last detail. He's got assistants for that, and if he's a good leader, he'd delegate responsibility anyway. :2cents:


But that's not the job of the Head Coach. That's Sunil Gulati (sp) job as director of the Federation. Klinns wanted total power. You dont see a Manager in MLB making decisions for their minor league team in the Carolina leagues.

[Major Harris]

While I agree with your other points, I disagree about the above.

The US needs a national style of play. Italy, Brazil, Germany, etc. have a style of play that is enforced at the younger stages of players development. That is why these countries are ALWAYS good. England is a perfect example of a team that tries to throw players together without a specific style. And look what that has got them since 1960. It takes years to develope a winning style and we need to start now. The U20 & U17's need to be playing a style that will ALSO be played by the National Club. No single coach can start that at the National Team level.

When this happens the US will gets the results that we should be getting with the talent out there. :2cents:



.


i agree that we need a style of play that we develop as our own. but take a look at the coaches of the teams you named. they don't keep the same coach for very long at all, bruce arena's tenure was almost unheard of at the national level. so it's not like they hire a coach, and he oversees the u-17 all the way through, because he's not around that long.

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

i agree that we need a style of play that we develop as our own. but take a look at the coaches of the teams you named. they don't keep the same coach for very long at all, bruce arena's tenure was almost unheard of at the national level. so it's not like they hire a coach, and he oversees the u-17 all the way through, because he's not around that long.

Without saying it, that was my point. :) We need a National style of play. Obviously that is not going to happen with the Fed leader in charge (it hasn't happened yet). I wasn't arguing that Klinns should have total power as much as I was disagreeing with Kilmer about "Great coaches take the talent they are given and mold a style to maximize their strengths" comment. If we had a National style we wouldn’t need to mold talent or styles. We would have identified the type of players we want at a younger age. And those players would have YEARS of playing in the "National System" that the National Club plays.

I'm not using Italy because they just won, but they are a perfect model to me. Their U17 etc teams play very, very similar to the National Club. By doing this, they know what a player (most likely) can do on the big stage in their system. The US just takes great/good individual players and hopes the can play as a team. Once again, look at England.


.

[Kilmer17]

Even if I agreed with you, it still wouldnt change the fact that the job of developing the National Style would not fall to the Head Coach of the Mens National team. He has way too many other responsibilities.

That job falls to the directors of the Federation.

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

Even if I agreed with you, it still wouldnt change the fact that the job of developing the National Style would not fall to the Head Coach of the Mens National team. He has way too many other responsibilities.

That job falls to the directors of the Federation.

First, do you agree that we need a National style of play?

Second, I never said the Head Coach of the National team should have complete control. Re-read my posts.

Third, Klinns having control may have been him just wanting to pick who are the coaches and scouts for the other teams. I don't know what his ideas were.

Fourth, the US is NOT a good soccer playing country. We have probably the most potential (size, kids playing, etc) of any country in the world, but right now we are not very good. If you don't learn from your mistakes........



.

[jrockster21]

Third, Klinns having control may have been him just wanting to pick who are the coaches and scouts for the other teams. I don't know what his ideas were.

This was my point. By "total control," I doubt he wanted to micromanage every aspect of all the different teams. He probably wanted to put his own guys who were on his page in charge of those programs, then hold bi-weekly or monthly meetings on that stuff or something.


Fourth, the US is NOT a good soccer playing country. We have probably the most potential (size, kids playing, etc) of any country in the world, but right now we are not very good. If you don't learn from your mistakes........

Thank you. Where were you three days ago when I was getting my ass handed to me for saying the same thing?? :)

[Kilmer17]

First, do you agree that we need a National style of play?

Second, I never said the Head Coach of the National team should have complete control. Re-read my posts.

Third, Klinns having control may have been him just wanting to pick who are the coaches and scouts for the other teams. I don't know what his ideas were.

Fourth, the US is NOT a good soccer playing country. We have probably the most potential (size, kids playing, etc) of any country in the world, but right now we are not very good. If you don't learn from your mistakes........



.


1- not at all. There are just as many teams that develop and change styles as their personell changes. Holland is the most obvious example I cant hink of, but even Italy played a different style this past year because they had a different kind of talent up top. It was similar, but not the old bunker bunker wait wait hope for a last second goal style.

2-Not you, but others.
3-Nobody has the answer to what was offered and what was countered. Just that the two sides couldnt agree. But I still wouldnt want him to have control over who the U17 coach is.

4- We ARE a good soccer country, what we are not is elite, or great, or historic etc.

I Wanted Klinns here as much, if not more than nayone, but youre right, those who dont learn from mistakes....

Klinns wanted even MORE power than Arena was given. Why would you advocate makin gthat mistake again?

[jrockster21]

3-Nobody has the answer to what was offered and what was countered. Just that the two sides couldnt agree. But I still wouldnt want him to have control over who the U17 coach is.

Why not? You still haven't answered that sufficiently.

[Kilmer17]

Why not? You still haven't answered that sufficiently.


Because it's not the job of the Mens team HC. anymore than it's YOUR job.

If he wanted to be the Director of the USSOCCER Federation, then he can make his case for that job and have that control and authority.


I wanted him as Coach, nothing more.

[jrockster21]

Because it's not the job of the Mens team HC. anymore than it's YOUR job.

But it should be is the point.


If he wanted to be the Director of the USSOCCER Federation, then he can make his case for that job and have that control and authority.

I wanted him as Coach, nothing more.

But not teaching the kids at an early age makes his job much harder. They have to possilby unlearn every strategy they've ever learned, and be retaught his style of play. There are COUNTLESS examples of systematic changes that have effected NFL players negatively. If you start out in a certain system, and stay with that system throughout your entire career, it makes you that much better. I'm not sure how you can argue with that. :whoknows:

[Kilmer17]

But it should be is the point.



But not teaching the kids at an early age makes his job much harder. They have to possilby unlearn every strategy they've ever learned, and be retaught his style of play. There are COUNTLESS examples of systematic changes that have effected NFL players negatively. If you start out in a certain system, and stay with that system throughout your entire career, it makes you that much better. I'm not sure how you can argue with that. :whoknows:


If that is your idea of what a HC should be, then Klinns was NOT the right choice for that job.

In fact, Bradley is a better choice for running the larger picture program.

It's still a bad idea. What happens if the Mens team falls to 50th in the world and doesnt qualify for the WC, but the U20s win the U20 WC? Should the HC of the big team stay on because he developed the system the U20s won with? Or do they then need to find a new HC, knowing that they must limit their search to HC who only play that system?

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

1- not at all. There are just as many teams that develop and change styles as their personell changes. Holland is the most obvious example I cant hink of, but even Italy played a different style this past year because they had a different kind of talent up top. It was similar, but not the old bunker bunker wait wait hope for a last second goal style.


That's not true. I've been a fan of Italian soccer since the early-mid '80's. Some years they had better talent than others. There style is very simple.
#1. play great defense.
#2. fall back (forwards) if necessary to defend.
#3. counter attack through the middle (first) outside if necessary.
In reality Italy prefers to get the lead (who doesn't :laugh: ) and then fall back and counter when the numbers are right. I have only seen one game where Italy appeared to be playing for a tie/last minute goal (in an elimination situation). That was against Brazil in the final. And many people forget that Italy came extremely close to wining that game 1-0. Christian Vieri missed a goal by inches in that game.

Brazil does the whole ball control tactic. Germany likes to play the ball outside and cross to their bigger players.

Of course every team incorporates things from other countries (or just basic soccer philosophy), but the consistently great clubs stick to what they think works. And those countries have a pretty good track record. imo

I don't consider Holland a powerhouse country. They are good, but we need to strive for greatness. :2cents:

.

[Kilmer17]

You dont consider Holland a powerhouse?

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

You dont consider Holland a powerhouse?

Well, in the 70's they were awsome(I wasn't really around then :laugh: ). Then they basically stunk in the 80's and early 90's(didn't even qualify for the WC a couple times). They seemed to be back in the late 90's(fun team to watch). Then didn't qualify for the 2002 WC and weren't overly great in the 2006 WC(lost in second round I think).

I know there is also Euro Cup games, but I think you need to consistantly show up for the big show (WC).

I do like watching them play though. Another one of those teams with GREAT potential that seems to leave you disappointed.


.

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

I think the powerhouses are: (no particular order)

Italy
Brazil
Argentina
Germany

A small step below:

England
France
Holland (The Netherlands)

The sometimes good and sometimes really bad:

US
Mexico
Columbia
Portugal
Spain

I'm sure I forgot someone (or more) :laugh:


.

[Skins247]

They must be tired of seeing that scoreline. For those keeping track (like me) that's 7-0-1 in the last 8 games in the US in this rivalry. And in that time, the US has scored 13 goals to Mexico's ZERO. That's NIL, NADA, NYET.

a Shaky first half, but a stellar 2nd half by the US. That's 2 games in a row that Bornstein has looked solid if not brilliant at times at left back. Man of the match though was obviosly Jimmy Conrad. Brilliant at the central defense and scores on the header.

Just a great game overall for the US.

And did everyone see the attempted cheap shot by the Mexican keeper after Landons goal?

What a classless a-hole. But what do you expect from Mexico. They refuse to even shake hands after the matches now.

No one gives a crap about soccer in this country. The mods shouldn't even allow people to talk about that sissy sport.

[Major Harris]

No one gives a crap about soccer in this country. The mods shouldn't even allow people to talk about that sissy sport.


man, for a 37 year old, you sure act like a foolish teenager. maybe once i'll see you actually add substance to a thread. do you have a college degree?

[Sebowski]

I watched a couple soccer shows hoping to see some sort of fallout for Sanchez's attempt to tackle our guy after Donavon's goal, but it wasn't even mentioned. I don't know if Fifa ever suspends players after reviewing for dirty play, but if they do then they should suspend Sanchez. That was nothing short of malicious.

[hkHog]

We own Mexico. It's been years since they scored a goal on US soil. After the game my friend said, "if you want to stop illegal immigration all you have to do is make a wall of soccer goals along the border, no Mexican can get through that!" Tasteless, but I thought it was funny nonetheless!

[jrockster21]

man, for a 37 year old, you sure act like a foolish teenager. maybe once i'll see you actually add substance to a thread. do you have a college degree?

You can enter any age that you want in your CP. ;)

[Major Harris]

You can enter any age that you want in your CP. ;)
true. lying about your age on a mb is pretty lame.

[jrockster21]

true. lying about your age on a mb is pretty lame.

Waaaaaay lamer than asking for haircut advice. :paranoid:

[Major Harris]

Waaaaaay lamer than asking for haircut advice. :paranoid:
i'll give you that one. :cheers:

[Skins247]

man, for a 37 year old, you sure act like a foolish teenager. maybe once i'll see you actually add substance to a thread. do you have a college degree?

YUP!....and that is my opinion of soccer. And I would be willing to bet, more of my fellow countrymen share that opinion.

[Major Harris]

YUP!....and that is my opinion of soccer. And I would be willing to bet, more of my fellow countrymen share that opinion.
fortunately, not all of them feel the need to troll threads on the topic.