All Ages ban in DC

[Skins Fan in Ma]

I just watched this video with Ian from Fugazi / Minor Threat speaking in front of a panel that is trying to ban all age shows in the DC area. Anyone else know about this? I live in Boston and have been a part of the hardcore/punk scene since I was 14 ( I am 24 now) I can only imagine how devistating it would be if the shows were not all ages. Anyone else?


http://www.punknews.org/article/22198

[Mass_SkinsFan]

I'll be the first to admit that isn't my 'scene', but I've got a thought or two on it.....

All ages shows, if I understand what you're talking about correctly, hold the potential for some really serious issues... underage drinking, drug use, exposure to adult situations that the younger attendees are not yet ready to deal with, etc... Personally, so long as no alcohol is being allowed at the show, I wouldn't have an issues with the shows being 18+. If there's alcohol allowed at the event, I'm all for the 21+ restriction.

If I'm off-base on what these events are like, my apologies and feel free to correct my misunderstanding.

[IONTOP]

I'll be the first to admit that isn't my 'scene', but I've got a thought or two on it.....

All ages shows, if I understand what you're talking about correctly, hold the potential for some really serious issues... underage drinking, drug use, exposure to adult situations that the younger attendees are not yet ready to deal with, etc... Personally, so long as no alcohol is being allowed at the show, I wouldn't have an issues with the shows being 18+. If there's alcohol allowed at the event, I'm all for the 21+ restriction.

If I'm off-base on what these events are like, my apologies and feel free to correct my misunderstanding.

I'm with mass on this one... While growing up I was pissed that I couldn't get into some shows, but I've since realized that there should be no rush on growing up. But all shows should be 18+ because once you hit 18, I feel that it's not about the "hanging out with the cool kids" and more about listening to the band...

[Skins Fan in Ma]

I understand the concerns of what might be happening at these shows. When I was younger I thrived on being able to see touring bands in small venues. I am not gonna lie there were some kids doing things they should'nt have but does'nt that happen everywhere? It's just the threat of not being able to see bands at all if you're under 18 can kill a scene that needs kids under 18 in order for it to survive. Some of my favorite records, zines,and bands have all involved minors. Music is much more than just a hobby for me and if I was not able to experience seeing bands when I was younger I think I would'nt be the way that I am today.

[RVAbrendan]

Just give a certain bracelet to people under 21 so they can't get alcohol. There's nothing going on at a show that a 14 or 15 year old hasn't seen before. A lot of these kids choose not to drink anyway, so it's even more upsetting that they can't get in to see a band they love.

[IONTOP]

Just give a certain bracelet to people under 21 so they can't get alcohol. There's nothing going on at a show that a 14 or 15 year old hasn't seen before. A lot of these kids choose not to drink anyway, so it's even more upsetting that they can't get in to see a band they love.

Bracelets can be cut off... X's can be washed off, no amount of security or staffing is going to prevent minors from getting alcohol, therefore it is much more feasable for clubs to just ban minors...

[Mass_SkinsFan]

Bracelets can be cut off... X's can be washed off, no amount of security or staffing is going to prevent minors from getting alcohol, therefore it is much more feasable for clubs to just ban minors...

Exactly. I went to college in Providence, RI, which has nearly a dozen colleges and universities in and around it. The more respectable bars did everything in their power to ensure they only served students with legitimate 21+ ID's. It was laughable. I could probably have gotten served at just about any of them had I wanted to and I was nineteen when I graduated with my A of S degree.

Unless there is a foolproof way (there isn't) to ensure minors cannot be served alcohol, I believe the underage people shouldn't be admitted, or alcohol shouldn't be served.

[MSB 21]

I believe this tragedy has sparked this attempted ban...

WASHINGTON -- The man charged in the shooting death of 17-year-old Taleshia Ford was a suspect in a previous attempted murder case in Montgomery County, News4's Pat Collins reported Monday.

According to court documents, Jamel Mackabee was charged with attempted second-degree murder, first-degree assault and reckless endangerment. However, those charges were dropped when a witness refused to testify, Collins said.

Mackabee has been charged with first-degree murder in Ford's killing. The 17-year-old was shot and killed on Jan. 20 at Club 1919 on Ninth Street in Northwest. Police said she was not the intended target

http://www.nbc4.com/news/10991425/detail.html?dl=mainclick

http://video.nbc4.com/player/?id=57472

[RVAbrendan]

Well, what about shows not at bars? I've been to countless shows in northern va/dc where the venue had no bar.

Edit: Also, a lot of this music is aimed at a younger crowd. There has to be a way to get around this. Hell, I'm 20 years old, I don't drink, and if I couldn't go to see a band I've loved for years that comes around once in a blue moon, I would be pretty pissed.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

Well, what about shows not at bars? I've been to countless shows in northern va/dc where the venue had no bar.

I think that depends on the venue. If you're talking a stadium or colluseum atmosphere, I'd say 16+ (maybe 14+ with an adult). If we're talking a club atmosphere, just without the alcohol, I'd say 18+, no exceptions.


Edit: Also, a lot of this music is aimed at a younger crowd. There has to be a way to get around this. Hell, I'm 20 years old, I don't drink, and if I couldn't go to see a band I've loved for years that comes around once in a blue moon, I would be pretty pissed.

The way to get around it is to choose an appropriate venue and timing for the show. 8pm on a Wednesday night is not appropriate for a show aimed at 14 year olds. A bar/club atmosphere is not appropriate for that age group either.

As for you personally... Thank your friends and classmates who ruin things for everyone because they're not as willing to forgo the alcohol and obey the rules as you apparently are.

[IONTOP]

Yep and I'm positive that it wasn't just ONE bad apple, it was a whole crapload of them and they in turn got the club fined and punished by taking away their liquor license for a few days...

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I have a serious problem with 21 being the legal drinking age to begin with. I joined the Army at 18 and I always felt it was beyond stupid that I was old enough to be a main gunner on a MK19 and blow another human beings head off but I wasn't old enough to drink a beer. Bull****.

[IONTOP]

I have a serious problem with 21 being the legal drinking age to begin with. I joined the Army at 18 and I always felt it was beyond stupid that I was old enough to be a main gunner on a MK19 and blow another human beings head off but I wasn't old enough to drink a beer. Bull****.

As did I (minus the army part) but the law is the law and until it's changed we should abide by it...

[Mass_SkinsFan]

Yep and I'm positive that it wasn't just ONE bad apple, it was a whole crapload of them and they in turn got the club fined and punished by taking away their liquor license for a few days...

Exactly. I lost count of the number of bars that got fined or shut down (at leat one PERMANENTLY) for serving minors while I was in college. No matter how hard the places tried to stay on the up and up (and some did), the kids were two or three steps ahead of them at all times.


As did I (minus the army part) but the law is the law and until it's changed we should abide by it...

Exactly. The drinking age at Twenty-One versus Eighteen doesn't really make a difference to me. Then again, I have never found much alcohol that I like the taste of, so even at the age of Thirty-Two I don't drink much alcohol. However, the law is the law. If you believe the age should be eighteen, work to get it changed, don't ignore or blatantly disregard the law.

[herrmag]

I have a serious problem with 21 being the legal drinking age to begin with. I joined the Army at 18 and I always felt it was beyond stupid that I was old enough to be a main gunner on a MK19 and blow another human beings head off but I wasn't old enough to drink a beer. Bull****.

If you get stationed overseas (where you will be potentially dying for your country) like I did, you'll be drinking at 18. Besides, 18 year olds are still in highschool. Whether you want to admit it or not, there is a BIG difference between a highschool senior and a college junior.

[Bounce]

Besides, 18 year olds are still in highschool. Whether you want to admit it or not, there is a BIG difference between a highschool senior and a college junior.

So a high schooler can be handed an extremely efficient killing weapon and die 10,000 miles away, but can't drink?

[RVAbrendan]

I think that depends on the venue. If you're talking a stadium or colluseum atmosphere, I'd say 16+ (maybe 14+ with an adult). If we're talking a club atmosphere, just without the alcohol, I'd say 18+, no exceptions.



The way to get around it is to choose an appropriate venue and timing for the show. 8pm on a Wednesday night is not appropriate for a show aimed at 14 year olds. A bar/club atmosphere is not appropriate for that age group either.



Those are pretty reasonable, but a lot of shows happen in obscure places like roller rinks, small restaurants, ice cream parlors, etc. Of course, these are small local bands, but kids love this stuff. I think this is where it gets a little tricky.

[herrmag]

So a high schooler can be handed an extremely efficient killing weapon and die 10,000 miles away, but can't drink?

Yep. He's given that weapon after extensive training. Perhaps they should have a bootcamp for drunks. Perhaps then I'd rethink my stance on things.

[IONTOP]

Those are pretty reasonable, but a lot of shows happen in obscure places like roller rinks, small restaurants, ice cream parlors, etc. Of course, these are small local bands, but kids love this stuff. I think this is where it gets a little tricky.

Wait this law applies to that too? Okay, well then I am officially against this law...

[JCB]

Wow, this sucks. I grew up in the area and went to tons of har(DC)ore shows, at bars and elsewhere. We would just get an underage stamp and that was that.

It always struck me, and still does, that the "you can cut bracelets" and "you can wash off stamps" arguments hold little water. After all, you can get a fake ID and circumvent the regulations in other ways. That needn't preclude the option of having these shows. And anyways, back at the old 9:30 club and similar clubs, the people checking you in would know who was and wasn't stamped. Plus, I never once tried to buy a drink at these places since I was only there for the music.

But a reasonable alternative would simply be to have the all-ages shows at community centers, churches, or wherever. The scene has always done this and shouldn't be hampered. I agree with Ian's decision to contest this on principle, as he should. But it won't stop anything, as it shouldn't.

[IONTOP]

It always struck me, and still does, that the "you can cut bracelets" and "you can wash off stamps" arguments hold little water. After all, you can get a fake ID and circumvent the regulations in other ways.

But do you not think that 21+ bars would have less occurances of underage drinking?

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Yep. He's given that weapon after extensive training. Perhaps they should have a bootcamp for drunks. Perhaps then I'd rethink my stance on things.
Extensive training my ass. I was giving training on how to shoot the mother****er and how to reload it. But yet I was always worried about my 1st Sgt finding out about how wasted I was the night before. Bull****. I don't give a **** what the law is. These people (representatives and senators) don't speak for me. Especially people that made the law how ever many years ago. Just because it's a law doesn't make it right. It's complete bull****. Keep in mind that I'm past 21 now. I still hate the ****.

[airborneskins]

I think that it owuld be ok to put an 18+ limit on Concerts at bars / clubs. A minor has no business there anyway. I think that if a band wants to have an all ages show, they should hold the concert at an appropriate venue (i.e. the Patriot Center or somewhere big like that)

[headexplode]

As did I (minus the army part) but the law is the law and until it's changed we should abide by it...


BE COOL---FOLLOW THE RULES!!!:cool:



I went to a lot of these all ages shows as a kid-mostly they were held at rec centers or churches and other places. But there were shows at clubs where they either didn't serve alcohol that particular night, or you got a big X on your hand (which isn't as easy to wash off as you think). As far as wristbands go, you only wear them when you're over 21, not when you're under, so there is no danger of ripping them off. I never saw many problems at all--most of the time the kids were there to enjoy the show. But, you know, why let kids have a good time listening to music that speaks to them.

[ntotoro]

I am not gonna lie there were some kids doing things they should'nt have but does'nt that happen everywhere?

Believe it or not, no.

[IONTOP]

BE COOL---FOLLOW THE RULES!!!:cool:



I went to a lot of these all ages shows as a kid-mostly they were held at rec centers or churches and other places. But there were shows at clubs where they either didn't serve alcohol that particular night, or you got a big X on your hand (which isn't as easy to wash off as you think). As far as wristbands go, you only wear them when you're over 21, not when you're under, so there is no danger of ripping them off. I never saw many problems at all--most of the time the kids were there to enjoy the show. But, you know, why let kids have a good time listening to music that speaks to them.

I think it should be more of a club rule, if all the clubs got together and said M-Thurs if we have a concert it will be 18+ because most people aren't going to go out to drink on one of those days. Fri and Sat will be 21+ because we will have a larger crowd and can afford to turn away the 18-20 year olds. Lawmakers shouldn't have to step in to do this. Rec center/ churches are places I've never seen concerts take place because I used to live in rural Arkansas so we never had that big of demand for live music unless it was a band of kids from our high school.

[zoony]

I used to wipe off the marker right away... seconds after it was applied :cool: ESPECIALLY when they did it with a hi-lighter so it would show up under the blacklight.


I saw Fugazi at the Peppermint in 1992... best $5.00 I ever spent. :)


.....

[CandaceM23]

I believe this tragedy has sparked this attempted ban...

WASHINGTON -- The man charged in the shooting death of 17-year-old Taleshia Ford was a suspect in a previous attempted murder case in Montgomery County, News4's Pat Collins reported Monday.

According to court documents, Jamel Mackabee was charged with attempted second-degree murder, first-degree assault and reckless endangerment. However, those charges were dropped when a witness refused to testify, Collins said.

Mackabee has been charged with first-degree murder in Ford's killing. The 17-year-old was shot and killed on Jan. 20 at Club 1919 on Ninth Street in Northwest. Police said she was not the intended target

http://www.nbc4.com/news/10991425/detail.html?dl=mainclick

http://video.nbc4.com/player/?id=57472


You're right. That's exactly what started the whole movement.

At the Incubus show on 1/26, I witnessed a 16ish year old boy faceplant into the concrete floor. We were up on the balcony and had been watching him stagger back and forth and wobble for a few minutes. We all noticed this kid and thought that he had to be wasted. Well, he eventually faceplanted and stayed down. His friends called a bouncer over who had to pick him up and drag him out - the kid COULD NOT walk.

But, where there's a will, there's a way. If a kid wants to drink, they're going to find a way to drink. If a kid wants to get high, they're going to find a way to get high.

Hell, the same applies for adults. I've seen plenty of shows where there have been adults wasted and stumbling all over the floor.

I think that the all ages ban is designed to avoid further liabilities for the venues having the shows. Thats it. And if you think about it, they need to protect themselves. That club where the girl got shot is probably going to be sued because she wasn't supposed to be in there - and some bouncer broke the rules for her ... now the club is being punished and will have to pay.

[headexplode]

I used to wipe off the marker right away... seconds after it was applied :cool:


I saw Fugazi at the Peppermint in 1992... best $5.00 I ever spent. :)


.....

I saw them at some old hispanic catholic church on 18th street (and then again at Ft. Reno for free) and it was one of the most amazing shows I've seen.

[zoony]

I saw them at some old hispanic catholic church on 18th street (and then again at Ft. Reno for free) and it was one of the most amazing shows I've seen.


They always put on a great show. :)

I've seen them several times... saw them again in Roanoke in '96 (iirc). Anyways, if you watch "Instrument", they actually spend time interviewing one of the girls we went to the show with. Pretty funny looking back whenever I watch that :laugh:


They did a version of "Reclamation" at that show that was without a doubt the most powerful live performance of any song by any band in the history of the world. :)



Oh yah... back on topic. Now that I'm an adult, I don't really care about the plight of the 16 year old. Sounds cold, but sorry that's how I feel. :)

...

[IONTOP]

Oh yah... back on topic. Now that I'm an adult, I don't really care about the plight of the 16 year old. Sounds cold, but sorry that's how I feel. :)

...

Yeah I became against underage drinking when I turned 21... Although before I turned 21 I never drank in public and didn't really drink often at all, when I did it was always at someone's house where I never drove...

[herrmag]

Extensive training my ass. I was giving training on how to shoot the mother****er and how to reload it. But yet I was always worried about my 1st Sgt finding out about how wasted I was the night before. Bull****. I don't give a **** what the law is. These people (representatives and senators) don't speak for me. Especially people that made the law how ever many years ago. Just because it's a law doesn't make it right. It's complete bull****. Keep in mind that I'm past 21 now. I still hate the ****.

Based on your response, perhaps there wasn't much of a difference in your maturity from the time you were 18 to the time you were 21. You're bitching that you couldn't drink, and then you're telling us how wasted you were the night before. So you're telling us that when you were 18-20, you were drinking underage and firing your weapon the next morning possibly hungover (assumption since you're stating you were "wasted"). Not exactly the poster boy for changing the drinking age.

Back to the point. This law has to do with disallowing people under the legal drinking age from going to shows. Very simple solution. For shows in which you expect a large crowd of people under 21 (I believe adults, e.g. 18 year olds should be allowed though), simply don't serve alcohol. It's not that difficult of a concept. Then, let the bar/club owners decide whether selling tickets or selling alcohol is more important. In addition, as some have stated, there are cafe's that have bands, although I'm not sure how good or popular those bands are.

[NoCalMike]

It's not that hard to not serve minors alcohol. Kids think they are sly and tricky, but the adults have already attempted everything the new generation tries.

Most bars that serve alcohol to underage kids, are doing it because they WANT TO, not because they are being tricked.

We have clubs here that have all ages shows, and they just ask for your ID when you buy your drink, and you have to stay in an enclosed bar area with your drink, and if you try to enter the area you are carded, everytime, unless you are the one or two grampa-looking fellas in the place.

I mean come on really, it isn't that hard.

If people want to really look out for the kids, they should do a better job of monitoring the parking lots before and after the show, because that is where MOST of the underage drinking and drug use is going on anyway.

It's a silly debate anyway, because I have been to club shows AND arena shows, and there is JUST AS MUCH underage drinking and drug use at Arena shows as well, it is actually harder to monitor at the arenas because of the sheer number of people there, it is much easier to light up, and then dissapear amongst the crowd.

This sounds to me more like the city officials don't like the type of music/fashion/attitude of these types of bands, so instead of just coming out and saying it, they are trying to funnel away their means to make a living.

[PokerPacker]

Bracelets can be cut off... X's can be washed off, no amount of security or staffing is going to prevent minors from getting alcohol, therefore it is much more feasable for clubs to just ban minors...
that's why you give it to people who CAN drink alcohol

[herrmag]

that's why you give it to people who CAN drink alcohol

Good point. I never understood why they would do that to the people that couldn't drink.

[headexplode]

Good point. I never understood why they would do that to the people that couldn't drink.

As far as I've seen, they never have. The bracelet is always for people who can drink.

[IONTOP]

Good point. I never understood why they would do that to the people that couldn't drink.

I'm convinced that some clubs that do that (especially the X's) are actually trying to put the word out on the street that you can possibly buy alcohol there. Also with bracelets, some of the time, you can slip them off your hand and give it to a minor and then if anyone asks where your bracelet is, just say that it fell off, or got wet and tore off...

[PokerPacker]

would it be so hard for them to just *gasp* card people when they ask for drinks?

[IONTOP]

would it be so hard for them to just *gasp* card people when they ask for drinks?

Yes it would, when you've got a continuous line of 5 or 10 people carding everyone gets tedious and slows down the drink distribution, bartenders get paid by how many drinks they serve (tips) and that would hinder their serving ability...

[Skins Fan in Ma]

I am just glad I had the chance to see alot of all ages shows when I was under 18/21. Most of the venues are gone now (Not due to underage drinking but due to Boston tighting up on allowing entertainment permits) I have fond memories of going to a show and seeing a sea of kids my age enjoying the tunes. Any Boston area people remember the Rat? Im just glad this post got some responses unlike some of my other ones.

[monkforhall]

Extensive training my ass. I was giving training on how to shoot the mother****er and how to reload it. But yet I was always worried about my 1st Sgt finding out about how wasted I was the night before. Bull****. I don't give a **** what the law is. These people (representatives and senators) don't speak for me. Especially people that made the law how ever many years ago. Just because it's a law doesn't make it right. It's complete bull****. Keep in mind that I'm past 21 now. I still hate the ****.

I agree with you, that you should have been able to drink and all our military people. You guys have huge responsibilities placed and you, and are forced to grow up at a very young age. I think along with that huge adult responsibility, I think it should come with being aloud to drink. But I think you have to earn that right, and it's not always about age. So i'm in favor of the military regulating the age that there guys drink. But across the board, I know I got into a lot of trouble drinking at 18, and I was no where near mature enough to drink, and neither were a lot of my friends.

I also think letting the military drink at 18 will increase recruits.

You know what I always found dumb, when I used to drive to a golf course at 18 or so, they wouldn't let me take out a cart unless I was 21. Some courses anyway. Car but no cart. That was funny.