So is everyone cheating in Nascar??

[jbooma]

These are not riders that no one cares about, these are some of the big named drivers. This is going to hurt Nascar.

http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/news/story?seriesId=2&id=2765503

Crew chiefs suspended:
• David Hyder (Michael Waltrip; indefinitely)
• Robbie Reiser (Matt Kenseth; 4 races)
• Steve Francis (Kasey Kahne; 4 races)
• Jim Rocco (Scott Riggs; 2 races)
• Josh Browne (Elliott Sadler; 2 races)
Driver penalties:
• Kenseth (50 points)
• Kahne (50 points)
• Riggs (25 points)
• Sadler (25 points)


Owner penalties:
• Ray Evernham (100 owner points)
• Jack Roush (50 owner points)

Fines:
• Reiser, Francis fined $50K each
• Rocco, Browne fined $25K each

[Maxito]

I' suprised that Michael Waltrip did not get fined at all.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

As I am not a nascar fan, except for Jeff Gordon aka the best driver of the past decade, I have a question about all of this. Is what they did to the cars like the mechanical equivalant of a baseball player taking roids? I mean does it make a big difference?

[jbooma]

As I am not a nascar fan, except for Jeff Gordon aka the best driver of the past decade, I have a question about all of this. Is what they did to the cars like the mechanical equivalant of a baseball player taking roids? I mean does it make a big difference?

I was thinking the same thing, and some of those on this list have had a lot of success lately so is it do to them cheating??

[EersSkins05]

From what I understand, it's basically viewed with a "wink, wink" attitude among racing fans and officials.

It's probably more akin to baseball pitchers doctoring the ball than steroids. You almost EXPECT them to try to cheat a little bit.

[SkinsOrlando]

As I am not a nascar fan, except for Jeff Gordon aka the best driver of the past decade, I have a question about all of this. Is what they did to the cars like the mechanical equivalant of a baseball player taking roids? I mean does it make a big difference?


When every second counts, sure it matters, comparable to roids found in track athletes. Roids in baseball is natural, ask any Bonds supporter.:laugh:


edit: Think of it this way, your car has some illegal devices, it makes it go 1/10th of a second faster than the other cars, over 300 laps thats 30 seconds in time differential.

[jbooma]

From what I understand, it's basically viewed with a "wink, wink" attitude among racing fans and officials.

It's probably more akin to baseball pitchers doctoring the ball than steroids. You almost EXPECT them to try to cheat a little bit.


from those punishments it does not look like a "wink, wink" does it give the drivers an unfair advantage and in this sport getting and extra second is huge

[skinfan2k]

oh please with the bonds reference.. i doubt steriods helps your discipline at the plate and hand-eye coordination

[Mass_SkinsFan]

I was thinking the same thing, and some of those on this list have had a lot of success lately so is it do to them cheating??

What I think people need to remember is that these cars get inspected every week and each track they go to. This is the first race of the season, and it's not unusual for a car or two to be found with an unapproved device or improper aero package at Daytona in February. In a sport where even a few horsepower or a small amount of downforce can be the difference between winning and finishing out of the Top 10, teams are looking for any advantage they can get. I would suggest that with the fines, penalties, and bad publicity these teams have wracked up in the last couple days, the Nextel Cup teams will be super-sure they're vehicles are in compliance tomorrow, on Sunday, and for the next several weeks.

[DieselPwr44]

"If you ain't cheatin', you ain't trying to win"- Dale Earnhardt

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

oh please with the bonds reference.. i doubt steriods helps your discipline at the plate and hand-eye coordination
Say it ain't so Skinfan2k. A Shaq fan AND a Bonds fan?

[CalSkinsFan]

"If you ain't cheatin', you ain't trying to win"- Dale Earnhardt

These types of "infractions" were much more common and even allowed not all that long ago. But because of how much the sport has grown and the tens of millions of dollars now involved, Nascar is now taking a much more active effort in making sure all cars play on an equal footing.

But what's so surprising to me (tho we haven't yet heard the extent of the infraction, but it sounds serious) is the new Toyota team is cheating. Many fans (myself included) are not too pleased that Toyota is even allowed to compete in the series. The series has always traditionally been for American built cars only (Toyota has a manufacturing plant in (Alabama I think?), so per Nascar they technically built in America.

This isn't going to sit too well with many.

[TheDoyler23]

It seems like a better analogy than steriods would be a baseball player corking his bat. I mean, they're both tinkering with their equipment in an illegal fashion, right?

[Predicto]

Who cares? It's like caring about pro wrestling. :)

[CandaceM23]

Waltrip just got nailed ...

Wow.

[HOF44]

Illegal substance in Waltrips care rumored to be jet fuel.

[CandaceM23]

I normally don't pay attention to NASCAR, but my parents have been talking about how everyone's been getting penalized this week, so I decided to listen to whats been going on. Insane.

[Samuels]

F'KING BS is what I say.. Its totally ridiculus to take away 50 driver points before the 1st damn race.. I was a diehard Elliott fan turned Kasey Kahne after he took over for him and this just puts them right in a huge hole.. I think its total bull**** and makes me not even wanna watch it.. Nascar supposedly caught the holes in his fender well in preinspection and told them to tape it according to Evernham the tape came off running 180+mph.. The same thing happened with Kenseth.. Sadler and Riggs had holes cut in the fastners for the spoiler letting air leak out to me that was a far bigger infraction then the other 2..

But its alright for that fag Jimmy Johnson to have a device built into his rear window to raise and lower it for qualifying last year and he don't get penalized any points just a crew chief suspension.. And that was a far bigger cheat and that team had been caught before, so this time they take 1st time offenders and basically rail them.. I hate Mike Helton and Pemberton, i feel like the Skins just lost its not fair and a terrible way to start the year for Evernham motorsports..

And the worst part is the drivers never now what the crew chiefs are doing now thier being punished..

[HOF44]

I agree with alot of what you say samuels, but it seems this year NASCAR is taking a much harder line on "pushing the envelope". Before it was a wink and a nod and a you better fix that, now they are throwing the book at them. Seems a new direction for them this year.

[CalSkinsFan]

Toyota and Waltrips fines/suspensions:

NASCAR's VP of communication Jim Hunter announced at Daytona International Speedway on Wednesday that Hyder has been fined a record $100,000 and Waltrip's team and owner Buffy Waltrip were docked 100 championship points for various rule violations.

NASCAR announced that it has confiscated the primary car of the No. 55 Toyota team which competes in the NASCAR Nextel Cup as a result of rules violations found during pre- and post- competition inspection for the Daytona. 12-4-A (actions detrimental to stock car racing), 12-4-Q (car, car parts components and/or equipment not conforming to NASCAR rules) and 20-15.2C (gasoline must not be blended with alcohols, ethers or other oxygenates).

http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/story/6474096


I somehow doubt this is the first impression Toyota had in mind :silly: .

[airborneskins]

...But its alright for that fag Jimmy Johnson...

Hey, I didn't know that Jimmy Johnson was part of the Film Actors Guild. :whoknows:

On a serious note, you may want to read the rules again about circumventing the profanity filters. :2cents:

[CalSkinsFan]

Nascar supposedly caught the holes in his fender well in preinspection and told them to tape it according to Evernham the tape came off running 180+mph.. The same thing happened with Kenseth.. Sadler and Riggs had holes cut in the fastners for the spoiler letting air leak out to me that was a far bigger infraction then the other 2..

But its alright for that fag Jimmy Johnson to have a device built into his rear window to raise and lower it for qualifying last year and he don't get penalized any points just a crew chief suspension.. And that was a far bigger cheat and that team had been caught before, so this time they take 1st time offenders and basically rail them..


I do agree these don't at all seem fair to Johnson's fines by comparison. But those fines didn't seem to be enough to stop the cheating, so Nascar upped the ante.

Nascar is big business nowadays, like it or not.

[GibbsFactor]

Get off HMS's ass. Jimmie didn't cheat, his team did. Kane didn't cheat, his team did. Waltrip cheated and was so coy about it, it was sickening. I mean, jet fuel? Are you serious?
http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/story/6474096
As for the rest of them, they just got caught. All you 3 fans need to look at the comment made by DE. Everham's always cheated, even when he was cheifing the dominant 24. It's what it is. Do you think the Skin's don't cheat? It's a competition with LOTS of $$$ associated with it. The point reduction sucks for some teams but there had to be a legitimate reason for the docking. The suspensions and fines are pointless. That's for media attention. The points, that is a kick to the nuts.

[CandaceM23]

Do you guys think that making the teams sit out races would stop the cheating?

[HOF44]

Do you guys think that making the teams sit out races would stop the cheating?

Yes, I but don't ever see it happening. It would penalize the sponsor and NASCAR will never do anything to hurt a spnoser that badly.

[portisizzle]

oh please with the bonds reference.. i doubt steriods helps your discipline at the plate and hand-eye coordination


Bond is a piece of dog ****. **** him and all the apologist fans that support his ****ing ass. Bonds is a cheat and ****ing bad one at that.

**** HIM AND HIS FANS.

[GibbsFactor]

Do you guys think that making the teams sit out races would stop the cheating?

Depends on the sponsor. Say if Gordon got busted and had to skip a race, it would be a HUGE deal. Docking points is like taking a win away in the NFL. Keeping a team from racing is like making an NFL team forfiet a game, lose all it's game money, etc.. Too much money loss. Won't happen unless the sponsor could take ownership of the race.

[HOF44]

Bond is a piece of dog ****. **** him and all the apologist fans that support his ****ing ass. Bonds is a cheat and ****ing bad one at that.

**** HIM AND HIS FANS.

No need to hold back PS, if you don't like Bonds just say so, quit holding it in. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

[PokerPacker]

oh please with the bonds reference.. i doubt steriods helps your discipline at the plate and hand-eye coordination
yeah, and making the car faster don't help with the driver's skills. still cheating either way.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Bond is a piece of dog ****. **** him and all the apologist fans that support his ****ing ass. Bonds is a cheat and ****ing bad one at that.

**** HIM AND HIS FANS.
Amen to all of that.

[portisizzle]

No need to hold back PS, if you don't like Bonds just say so, quit holding it in. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

I am moving my hatred from Mike Mussina to someone who REALLY deserves it!!

I have had a GREAT Valentines dinner with the wife and three kids at at a nice tableside dinner restaurant. I am feeling great. And then I am reminded of all that is bad in the world personified in one stinking ball of rat turds by some spineless apologist fan (just kidding.....kinda).

Bonds is on my A-1 **** list this year. He has singlehandedly ruined baseball for me and my children.....my childrens children.......

**** THAT MOTHER****ER. :mad: :mad: :mad:

[airborneskins]

Bonds is on my A-1 **** list this year. He has singlehandedly ruined baseball for me and my children.....my childrens children.......

**** THAT MOTHER****ER. :mad: :mad: :mad:

So what are you goin to do when he breaks the HR record this season? Do I need to leave town that day? :laugh:

[PokerPacker]

I am moving my hatred from Mike Mussina to someone who REALLY deserves it!!

I have had a GREAT Valentines dinner with the wife and three kids at at a nice tableside dinner restaurant. I am feeling great. And then I am reminded of all that is bad in the world personified in one stinking ball of rat turds by some spineless apologist fan (just kidding.....kinda).

Bonds is on my A-1 **** list this year. He has singlehandedly ruined baseball for me and my children.....my childrens children.......

**** THAT MOTHER****ER. :mad: :mad: :mad:
your children already have children? some parent you are. :silly:

[portisizzle]

So what are you goin to do when he breaks the HR record this season? Do I need to leave town that day? :laugh:

Two words


Hara Kari :mad:

[portisizzle]

your children already have children? some parent you are. :silly:


:D

[Samuels]

I agree with alot of what you say samuels, but it seems this year NASCAR is taking a much harder line on "pushing the envelope". Before it was a wink and a nod and a you better fix that, now they are throwing the book at them. Seems a new direction for them this year.


Yeah but the worst part about it was last year Evernhams team especially the 9 team cut the holes in the fender wells thinking it helped them with aerodynamics every race.. Nascar allowed it has a grey area and they we're never penalized, i just watched a interview with Ray he is PO'ed..

[HOF44]

Yeah but the worst part about it was last year Evernhams team especially the 9 team cut the holes in the fender wells thinking it helped them with aerodynamics every race.. Nascar allowed it has a grey area and they we're never penalized, i just watched a interview with Ray he is PO'ed..

No arguing that Jeffy and Jimmy get the benefit of the doubt more than most. Lets see if NASCAR hits them up for anything this year.

[GibbsFactor]

Evernham got busted with Jeff before, granted early in their careers.

[HOF44]

Evernham got busted with Jeff before, granted early in their careers.

Was it a fine or points? Points is all that really matters to these guys.

[GibbsFactor]

1995 - $60k.

Here's a good look at the cheaters of NASCAR.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/story/3473888

[Samuels]

Evernham is'nt the crew chief and don't work on these cars he said he is to tied up with the business side, he is the CEO and owner..

He was fined with Jeff Gordon when he was a crew chief.. I don't care that Kenny Francis was suspended 4 races or even the fines but the 50pts is way overboard for this type of infraction that was allowed last year especially for a 1st time offender..

[GibbsFactor]

IMO, it's part of the engineers job to find loopholes. Sometimes, they just aren't loopy enough.

[Blighty Skins]

I'm surprised Toyota complained so much. They are known as big cheats in F1.

[Skins247]

F'KING BS is what I say.. Its totally ridiculus to take away 50 driver points before the 1st damn race.. I was a diehard Elliott fan turned Kasey Kahne after he took over for him and this just puts them right in a huge hole.. I think its total bull**** and makes me not even wanna watch it.. Nascar supposedly caught the holes in his fender well in preinspection and told them to tape it according to Evernham the tape came off running 180+mph.. The same thing happened with Kenseth.. Sadler and Riggs had holes cut in the fastners for the spoiler letting air leak out to me that was a far bigger infraction then the other 2..

But its alright for that fag Jimmy Johnson to have a device built into his rear window to raise and lower it for qualifying last year and he don't get penalized any points just a crew chief suspension.. And that was a far bigger cheat and that team had been caught before, so this time they take 1st time offenders and basically rail them.. I hate Mike Helton and Pemberton, i feel like the Skins just lost its not fair and a terrible way to start the year for Evernham motorsports..

And the worst part is the drivers never now what the crew chiefs are doing now thier being punished..
I, too, am a Kasey Kahne fan. Unlike you, I think the penalty is justified. Nascar is trying to send the message that cheating isn't going to be tolerated. Granted, what Kahne and a few others did wasn't anywhere near as severe as what Waltrip is believed to have done. I think if Nascar really wants to send a message they need to keep a driver like Waltrip from participating in the race. You think some of these crew chiefs are still gonna try and cheat if they stop someone from driving in the 500, the biggest race on the schedule? THAT would be how you get your point across. Btw, I think suspending the crew chiefs for X amount of races is nothing. Just look at last year. Johnson's crew chief was suspended for the first 4 races and Johnson still went on to win the championship. The docking of the pts is probably going to help, though. Being 50 pts down right out of the gate certainly is building yourself a hole.

[Thanos]

I'm surprised Toyota complained so much. They are known as big cheats in F1.

Aint help much after spending a billion bucks and zero wins.

[Xameil]

As I am not a nascar fan, except for Jeff Gordon aka the best driver of the past decade, I have a question about all of this. Is what they did to the cars like the mechanical equivalant of a baseball player taking roids? I mean does it make a big difference?


yeah most Gordon fans don't know anything about racing...that's why they're Gordon fans ;) :laugh:

yes what they did was to improve aerodynamics of the car. What happened to Waltrip was to help boost HP which at Daytona a restrictor plate track is key since the cars HP is restricted, and it would take at least a lap to get to full speed. That's why drafting is so key at Daytona, and Talladega. 2 cars move faster, and are better aerodynamically then 1.

[Xameil]

But what's so surprising to me (tho we haven't yet heard the extent of the infraction, but it sounds serious) is the new Toyota team is cheating. Many fans (myself included) are not too pleased that Toyota is even allowed to compete in the series. The series has always traditionally been for American built cars only (Toyota has a manufacturing plant in (Alabama I think?), so per Nascar they technically built in America.

This isn't going to sit too well with many.


First off...it was 1 person on the team. Waltrip has 2 or 3 drivers, and his was the one caught. So, it was 1 Toyota out of I think 6? Now...yes Toyota is a Japanese car, but look at it this way, there are more Toyotas built in the US then Fords, or Dodges, or Chevys. OK, yes those 3 are based in the US, and ultimately the money goes to owners of those companies, but much of their workforce, are not Americans. The series has NOT always been for American built cars. This is not the first time a foreign car has been on the NASCAR circuit. It's just the first time one is, and will probably do well since Toyota is known for giving LOADS of cash to it's race teams.

[skinsfan44]

But what's so surprising to me (tho we haven't yet heard the extent of the infraction, but it sounds serious) is the new Toyota team is cheating. Many fans (myself included) are not too pleased that Toyota is even allowed to compete in the series. The series has always traditionally been for American built cars only (Toyota has a manufacturing plant in (Alabama I think?), so per Nascar they technically built in America.

This isn't going to sit too well with many.

Couldn't agree more, CalSkinsFan.

I am sorry but Toyota (and soon I think Nissan) do NOT belong in NASCAR.

Yes, they build a car here in the states, but there headquarters are in Japan, so they are NOT American.

Also, because of this, they no longer IMO can call the Daytona 500 the "Great American Race."

NASCAR has "Jumped the Shark."

[Xameil]

These types of "infractions" were much more common and even allowed not all that long ago. But because of how much the sport has grown and the tens of millions of dollars now involved, Nascar is now taking a much more active effort in making sure all cars play on an equal footing.

But what's so surprising to me (tho we haven't yet heard the extent of the infraction, but it sounds serious) is the new Toyota team is cheating. Many fans (myself included) are not too pleased that Toyota is even allowed to compete in the series. The series has always traditionally been for American built cars only (Toyota has a manufacturing plant in (Alabama I think?), so per Nascar they technically built in America.

This isn't going to sit too well with many.


Couldn't agree more, CalSkinsFan.

I am sorry but Toyota (and soon I think Nissan) do NOT belong in NASCAR.

Yes, they build a car here in the states, but there headquarters are in Japan, so they are NOT American.

Also, because of this, they no longer IMO can call the Daytona 500 the "Great American Race."

NASCAR has "Jumped the Shark."


hey, I got a secret for both of ya....Dodge is made by Daimler-Chrysler....A German automaker ;).

[Thanos]

The so-called NASCAR diehard fanbase is delustional .The series is stagnanting.The Truck series is all be gone because of lack of sponsers ,that why Cup is looking to branch out overseas with races in Mexico and Cananda for the Busch Series.The series needs a new revenue stream with its pale imitation of F1.

[jbooma]

Get off HMS's ass. Jimmie didn't cheat, his team did. Kane didn't cheat, his team did. Waltrip cheated and was so coy about it, it was sickening. I mean, jet fuel? Are you serious?


If they team is cheating then the driver is as well, do you honestly think they didn't know :doh:

Why so much hate for toyota?? Nascar needs to let other companies in.

[jbooma]

Bonds is on my A-1 **** list this year. He has singlehandedly ruined baseball for me and my children.....my childrens children.......

**** THAT MOTHER****ER. :mad: :mad: :mad:

I think it was Mussina who ruined baseball for you :laugh:

Who cares about Bonds?? Think of the Tigers, Whitesox, Redsox, Nationals etc.. those are the good things of baseball

[Spaceman Spiff]

I think it was Mussina who ruined baseball for you :laugh:

Who cares about Bonds?? Think of the Tigers, Whitesox, Redsox, Nationals etc.. those are the good things of baseball

Beat me to the Mussina punch :)

And the Nationals are not among the good things of baseball. In fact, they're among the very worst ;)

[Xameil]

The so-called NASCAR diehard fanbase is delustional .The series is stagnanting.The Truck series is all be gone because of lack of sponsers ,that why Cup is looking to branch out overseas with races in Mexico and Cananda for the Busch Series.The series needs a new revenue stream with its pale imitation of F1.


Really?!? Is that why the NFL is looking to put games overseas as well?

Sorry, it's not dying at all. The Truck series never has been that big, and the Busch series is doing just fine. As for the Nextel Cup series, there is no trouble finding sponsers for that.

[Xameil]

If they team is cheating then the driver is as well, do you honestly think they didn't know :doh:

Why so much hate for toyota?? Nascar needs to let other companies in.


Hate for Toyota = fear. The good ol boys fear them. Toyota is more willing and able to give HUGE financial backing to many of these teams whereas the other 3 aren't.

[Teller]

Really?!? Is that why the NFL is looking to put games overseas as well?

Sorry, it's not dying at all. The Truck series never has been that big, and the Busch series is doing just fine. As for the Nextel Cup series, there is no trouble finding sponsers for that.

Exactly. Busch is arguably as competitive as Cup racing, and actually gaining in popularity, IMO. The truck series is like Double A baseball, and when viewed in that light is doing its job. (The NASCAR weekly series would be like Single A or rookie ball.)

And to whomever said NASCAR was a weak imitation of F1 (jbooma?) it's not that at all. J.P. Montoya actually said that Michael Schumacher would have a difficult time early on adjusting to Cup racing. They're two COMPLETELY different series, with precious little in common. Neither affects the other's fanbase because they're so different.

I'm really anxious to see how Montoya does this season. He's with a good team that has good equipment, and despite my love of NASCAR, I think F1 drivers are the best in the world. If that's the case, Montoya's going to make HUGE noise in '07. (And Americans will actually know his name, finally.)

[zoony]

I'm really anxious to see how Montoya does this season. He's with a good team that has good equipment, and despite my love of NASCAR, I think F1 drivers are the best in the world. If that's the case, Montoya's going to make HUGE noise in '07. (And Americans will actually know his name, finally.)



I agree, it will be interesting. But I think it involves an entirely different skill set in NASCAR... it will definitely take some adjusting.

[Teller]

I agree, it will be interesting. But I think it involves an entirely different skill set in NASCAR... it will definitely take some adjusting.

Oh it's completely different, no question. But if anything, I think Montoya will have MORE tools at his disposal.

Think about it. You can't beat and bang in an F1 machine. And while drafting in the NASCAR sense will be an adjustment (especially on superspeedways) he'll benefit from the sturdier, more durable car when it comes to tight racing.

I also think Montoya will push the handful of Cup guys that excel on the road courses something fierce. I wouldn't be shocked at all to see him win a race or two this year, especially on the tracks that include right-handers.

[Xameil]

I agree, it will be interesting. But I think it involves an entirely different skill set in NASCAR... it will definitely take some adjusting.


Yeah reminds me of the quote in Days of Thunder about the cars being twice the weight and the tires being half as wide in NASCAR. Not to mention the schedule that NASCAR racers face. The season is uber long, and the drivers almost NEVER get to go home. Even on weeks off, many of them test, or are helping work on the cars in some way.

[Xameil]

Oh it's completely different, no question. But if anything, I think Montoya will have MORE tools at his disposal.

Think about it. You can't beat and bang in an F1 machine. And while drafting in the NASCAR sense will be an adjustment (especially on superspeedways) he'll benefit from the sturdier, more durable car when it comes to tight racing.

I also think Montoya will push the handful of Cup guys that excel on the road courses something fierce. I wouldn't be shocked at all to see him win a race or two this year, especially on the tracks that include right-handers.


I disagree. I bet he has a few more problems in the road courses. They don't turn as well. I don't remember how he did in the Busch race down in Mexico.

[jbooma]

Beat me to the Mussina punch :)

And the Nationals are not among the good things of baseball. In fact, they're among the very worst ;)

hey we have a team in dc dammit :laugh:

the stadium is looking great :cheers: :cheers:

[Teller]

I disagree. I bet he has a few more problems in the road courses. They don't turn as well. I don't remember how he did in the Busch race down in Mexico.

I don't remember either. You're right in that Cup cars don't handle as well. They'll probably feel like they're "plowing" to him. All I'm saying is that I think he'll be able to better deal with those handling problems since he's not a complete fish-out-of-water like most Cup drivers.

You could well be right though. We won't really know until we see JP on the track regularly.

[Thanos]

Really?!? Is that why the NFL is looking to put games overseas as well?

Sorry, it's not dying at all. The Truck series never has been that big, and the Busch series is doing just fine. As for the Nextel Cup series, there is no trouble finding sponsers for that.

Its called globilization of brands. Why are Real Madrid,Chelsea,Barcelona, ,Manchester United and Liverpool football clubs playing matches in the US.

I follow NASCAR but aint blind that it needs to expand and find a new fanbase.Have you seen how heavily Montoya is being marketed to the Hispanic community?

Truck series has many drivers without sponsers.Why because Cup takes up the bulk of the cash and the rest "get in where they fit in".Translation scrambe for cash in an even shrinking pool.

[zoony]

Its called globilization of brands. Why are Real Madrid,Chelsea,Barcelona, ,Manchester United and Liverpool football clubs playing matches in the US.

I follow NASCAR but aint blind that it needs to expand and find a new fanbase.Have you seen how heavily Montoya is being marketed to the Hispanic community?

Truck series has many drivers without sponsers.Why because Cup takes up the bulk of the cash and the rest "get in where they fit in".Translation scrambe for cash in an even shrinking pool.



You could say that about any sport. NBA, Hockey, MLB, MLS... even the NFL to an extent.


It's clear to everyone here that you just don't like NASCAR. So just type that and be done with it... you can save face that way.


.....

[Teller]

It's clear to everyone here that you just don't like NASCAR. So just type that and be done with it... you can save face that way.

I don't understand why there are such strong anti-NASCAR feelings from some. I mean, hell, I don't see the point in soccer, but I don't go into every soccer thread to voice that opinion.

But hey, to each his/her own.

[Xameil]

Its called globilization of brands. Why are Real Madrid,Chelsea,Barcelona, ,Manchester United and Liverpool football clubs playing matches in the US.

I follow NASCAR but aint blind that it needs to expand and find a new fanbase.Have you seen how heavily Montoya is being marketed to the Hispanic community?

Truck series has many drivers without sponsers.Why because Cup takes up the bulk of the cash and the rest "get in where they fit in".Translation scrambe for cash in an even shrinking pool.


so if NFL does it, it's globalization, if NASCAR does it, it's desparate? Give it up, if ya don't like it fine, say so. The Truck series doesn't have a bunch of sponsers, because as it was said before, it's more of a developement program for Busch and Nextel. kinda like the double A baseball, or the summer leagues for Basketball. Do you know how many people attend 1 race? Do you know how many people watch it on TV? Trust me, the series is fine and thriving.

[zoony]

I don't understand why there are such strong anti-NASCAR feelings from some. I mean, hell, I don't see the point in soccer, but I don't go into every soccer thread to voice that opinion.

But hey, to each his/her own.



Agreed.

[Shallow1]

If it makes them go faster I say let them cheat = better wrecks :*)....(as long as no one dies or is seriously hurt)

[skinsfan44]

hey, I got a secret for both of ya....Dodge is made by Daimler-Chrysler....A German automaker ;).

Chrysler is/was an American company many decades before Daimler became partners with them, so I will give them a pass.

[Xameil]

Chrysler is/was an American company many decades before Daimler became partners with them, so I will give them a pass.



:laugh: Of course you do.

[skinsfan44]

Hate for Toyota = fear. The good ol boys fear them.

Chevy fears NO ONE!!!

It is not fear.

It is about tradition.

[Thanos]

so if NFL does it, it's globalization, if NASCAR does it, it's desparate? Give it up, if ya don't like it fine, say so. The Truck series doesn't have a bunch of sponsers, because as it was said before, it's more of a developement program for Busch and Nextel. kinda like the double A baseball, or the summer leagues for Basketball. Do you know how many people attend 1 race? Do you know how many people watch it on TV? Trust me, the series is fine and thriving.

I like NASCAR and support it up to a point and I'm not a homer to its faults.I subscribe to NASCAR Scene and some other publications.Trust me the cash is not as plentiful as one would be lead to believe.Just ask those teams with ties to Ford and Dodge?

Quit buying the line from the France organization hook line and sinker.:doh:

[Xameil]

I like NASCAR and support it up to a point and I'm not a homer to its faults.I subscribe to NASCAR Scene and some other publications.Trust me the cash is not as plentiful as one would be lead to believe.Just ask those teams with ties to Ford and Dodge?

Quit buying the line from the France organization hook line and sinker.:doh:


I'm not buying the line of the France family. I think they are crooked as all. But if the money isn't plentiful, then tell me why so many states are trying to build tracks now, and lure NASCAR there? Because there is no money involved? Yeah that would explain it. There's no money to be made there, so lets build a track for it. The France family just needs to let go of it's control over a few of the tracks that they run, and give other tracks a shot at getting a race.

[CandaceM23]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17136318/

Waltrip apologizes ...

[zoony]

I see that Robbie Reiser was suspended and Kenseth got docked 50 points... but I'm having a hell of a time finding out exactly what it is they did.

Anyone?


And if Waltrip wants to apologize... he should start by apologizing for driving a Toyota.

......

[Thanos]

I'm not buying the line of the France family. I think they are crooked as all. But if the money isn't plentiful, then tell me why so many states are trying to build tracks now, and lure NASCAR there? Because there is no money involved? Yeah that would explain it. There's no money to be made there, so lets build a track for it. The France family just needs to let go of it's control over a few of the tracks that they run, and give other tracks a shot at getting a race.

not saying NASCAR is making cash but look at the tv package and see who the suiters were and compare it to the NFL who demographics NASCAR covets.

[Xameil]

not saying NASCAR is making cash but look at the tv package and see who the suiters were and compare it to the NFL who demographics NASCAR covets.


lets see....Fox, ESPN, Speed channel, TNT, and Sirius.

NFL - Fox, ESPN, NFL Network, CBS, NBC and Sirius. So NFL has 1 extra channel covering it.

[Zguy28]

I see that Robbie Reiser was suspended and Kenseth got docked 50 points... but I'm having a hell of a time finding out exactly what it is they did.

Anyone?


And if Waltrip wants to apologize... he should start by apologizing for driving a Toyota.

......Illegal mods to the cars. Ie. Holes in the wheelwells and hollow bolts in the truck lid that let air flow through the car causing an aerodynamic advantage.

[zoony]

Illegal mods to the cars. Ie. Holes in the wheelwells and hollow bolts in the truck lid that let air flow through the car causing an aerodynamic advantage.



Thank you... not sure why it has to be so hard to find that out :) . All the stories I've read mention the penalty, but all the talk has been about Waltrip and his jet fuel

[GibbsFactor]

Now the 24 is in question, found something under the car. :doh:

[Wizards and Redskins]

I think Waltrip should get a fine along with the rest of the drivers driving TOYOTAs. This is an American sport and should only have American cars. Just my :2cents:

[Xameil]

I think Waltrip should get a fine along with the rest of the drivers driving TOYOTAs. This is an American sport and should only have American cars. Just my :2cents:


Jesus people, give it the eff up. Toyota is in the damn sport now. Stop your complaining and live with it.


I've said it once, and I'll say it again, there are probably more Toyotas built in this country then Fords, Chevys, or the German owned company of Dodge. Just STFU and deal with it.

Now for why I really decided to post in here..

:laugh: :laugh: Jeff Gordon :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :nana: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: Guess he took some tips from his teammate Jimmy Johnson :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[GibbsFactor]

Jesus people, give it the eff up. Toyota is in the damn sport now. Stop your complaining and live with it.


I've said it once, and I'll say it again, there are probably more Toyotas built in this country then Fords, Chevys, or the German owned company of Dodge. Just STFU and deal with it.

Now for why I really decided to post in here..

:laugh: :laugh: Jeff Gordon :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :nana: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: Guess he took some tips from his teammate Jimmy Johnson :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Yeah that's nice. He gets penalized because a part broke...

:doh:

[Xameil]

Yeah that's nice. He gets penalized because a part broke...

:doh:


Is that what it was, or was it they had his car too low? Article I read was car was too low. If it was due to a part, then I'll still laugh, and say maybe he should appeal when I take a breath. then laugh some more ;)

I guess the broken part helped him win the race.



edit ok, just read it again..it said it was due to an "unintentional" misalignment of a bolt in the suspension. Didn't say anything broke. If this happened to a less popular driver, no way would it have been classified as unintentional, and no way the person would be allowed to keep the win.

[GibbsFactor]

The trackbar broke which caused his car to be too low. NASCAR said it was unintentional and an accident but, it could have helped him win the race.

[RLeVan]

What's ironic is Jack Roush making such a stink about Toyota and the money they bring into the sport. Talking about the pot calling the kettle black. How many cars does he have entered under Roush Racing? Kenseth, Biffle, McMurray, Edwards, Ragan. Now he's bitching and moaning that Toyota is going to out spend him? Let me get this straight, I cockbag who has twice as many cars in the Nextel Cup series than any other manufacturer (don't pull that Mark Martin owns a car crap) in racing and he claims it's unfair? Now, he goes off to the Boston Red Sox who now own 50% of god know's how many cars.

Jack Roush created the multi-car team monster. Now he's snake bit. Well, we like to call a spade a spade. We are now entering the Roush/Red Sox money pit of racing.

[Xameil]

The trackbar broke which caused his car to be too low. NASCAR said it was unintentional and an accident but, it could have helped him win the race.


They said nothing of the trackbar. They said a bolt was misaligned. Those were the exact words. If it was a trackbar, they would have said trackbar ;)

[Xameil]

What's ironic is Jack Roush making such a stink about Toyota and the money they bring into the sport. Talking about the pot calling the kettle black. How many cars does he have entered under Roush Racing? Kenseth, Biffle, McMurray, Edwards, Ragan. Now he's bitching and moaning that Toyota is going to out spend him? Let me get this straight, I cockbag who has twice as many cars in the Nextel Cup series than any other manufacturer (don't pull that Mark Martin owns a car crap) in racing and he claims it's unfair? Now, he goes off to the Boston Red Sox who now own 50% of god know's how many cars.

Jack Roush created the multi-car team monster. Now he's snake bit. Well, we like to call a spade a spade. We are now entering the Roush/Red Sox money pit of racing.


Roush has to have people take over some of his cars. NASCAR put a cap on how many drivers an owner can have. They are slowly phasing out 4 and 5 cars per team so smaller owners have a shot. Other then that, yup, you hit the nail on the head.

[RLeVan]

They said nothing of the trackbar. They said a bolt was misaligned. Those were the exact words. If it was a trackbar, they would have said trackbar ;)

I'm sticking with ya Xamiel. What's funny is people accepting the explanation of a track bar breaking. We're talking about a bar of steel that's at least 3/4" in diameter. Now if you say the weld broke, then the welder in the shop can't tell his ass from his elbow.

It's a "whoops we didn't mean to" mentality that NASCAR takes with the top teams the ruins this sport. Let's see, broken track bar resulting in win. Taped over holes during qualy, and the tape comes off.

Nascar rules are a joke. If everyone on the pitwall gets away with cheating, what's the point in racing. I cheat better than you do?

[RLeVan]

Roush has to have people take over some of his cars. NASCAR put a cap on how many drivers an owner can have. They are slowly phasing out 4 and 5 cars per team so smaller owners have a shot. Other then that, yup, you hit the nail on the head.

That was the funny thing. Martin ran under Roush last year, but technically he owned the car. I'm all for Toyota entering the series. Toyota couldn't buy a win in Formula One. Toyota have had their battles in CART, although the idiotic fights between IRL and CART pretty much killed that league. Toyota pretty much owns the Craftsman truck series cause guess what? no 'one give's a ****. Pardon the profanity but seriously, a fart takes up more seats during a truck race.

[Xameil]

I'm sticking with ya Xamiel. What's funny is people accepting the explanation of a track bar breaking. We're talking about a bar of steel that's at least 3/4" in diameter. Now if you say the weld broke, then the welder in the shop can't tell his ass from his elbow.

It's a "whoops we didn't mean to" mentality that NASCAR takes with the top teams the ruins this sport. Let's see, broken track bar resulting in win. Taped over holes during qualy, and the tape comes off.

Nascar rules are a joke. If everyone on the pitwall gets away with cheating, what's the point in racing. I cheat better than you do?


The thing is, I can understand if a trackbar breaks, but everytime I've seen that happen, the car usually is worse off. Every article I read, doesn't even mention the trackbar. NASCAR officials said it was an unintentional misalignment in the suspension. Not a single word about trackbar. Sorry, this was intentional, I don't care what spin they try and put on it.

[Xameil]

That was the funny thing. Martin ran under Roush last year, but technically he owned the car. I'm all for Toyota entering the series. Toyota couldn't buy a win in Formula One. Toyota have had their battles in CART, although the idiotic fights between IRL and CART pretty much killed that league. Toyota pretty much owns the Craftsman truck series cause guess what? no 'one give's a ****. Pardon the profanity but seriously, a fart takes up more seats during a truck race.


Personally I bet Toyota does well. They won't fair as good as Chevy, but I bet they do better then Dodge, and give Ford a run for their money.

[RLeVan]

The Penske Dodges look pretty good, but the Chevy's are pretty much the class of the field. Montoya in the Ganassi Dodge looked pretty good too. Kenseth was a monster in the duelies so the 500 should be a good race.

[Zguy28]

I'm a fan of Jeff Gordon, but cheating is still cheating. If thats what he did, he deserves appropriate punishment like everybody else.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/racing/02/15/gordon.punished.ap/index.html?cnn=yes



Gordon, who won the second of Thursday's two 150-mile qualifying races, now will start the Daytona 500 in 42nd place.

NASCAR inspectors said his Chevrolet was almost an inch too low but blamed it on a part failure -- not cheating. He was not stripped of the victory.

"We feel it was unintentional, and actually fairly unsafe," said NASCAR competition director Robin Pemberton. "We feel that it was a part failure, and we feel that it was unitentionally done. I think it would be marginal at best if there was any advantage.

"I am 100 percent sure this is unintentional."

NASCAR said it believed a mechanic made a mistake when the shocks were installed before the race.




I'm surprised the darn thing didn't bottom out; they're low enough already.

[RLeVan]

The funny thing about the Daytona 500 is that it doesn't matter where you start as long as you avoid the "big one".

[Xameil]

The funny thing about the Daytona 500 is that it doesn't matter where you start as long as you avoid the "big one".

yeah there are some that actually prefer to start in the back.

[Wizards and Redskins]

Jesus people, give it the eff up. Toyota is in the damn sport now. Stop your complaining and live with it.


I've said it once, and I'll say it again, there are probably more Toyotas built in this country then Fords, Chevys, or the German owned company of Dodge. Just STFU and deal with it.

Now for why I really decided to post in here..

:laugh: :laugh: Jeff Gordon :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :nana: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: Guess he took some tips from his teammate Jimmy Johnson :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

It's a tradition, NASCAR was built on american cars. Why should we change tradition. I highly doubt the japanese community is gonna sit down every sunday or saturday and watch the NASCAR races and FORD and Chevys were built in the US WAY before anyone knew what a Toyota was. It sorta changing tradition like baseball. Baseball was an American sport and now there might be 4 or 5 real American-born players and the others come from Costa Rica and Dominican Republic. Am i the only one that realizes there isn't going to be such thing as "american tradition" anymore?


But if it doesnt matter that toyota is in it now how does it feel knowing you wont be employed in a couple years if you cant speak fluent spanish and have to get rid of the dollar and use pesos :doh:

[DjTj]

It's a tradition, NASCAR was built on american cars. Why should we change tradition. The Daytona 500 used to be run on the beach, but they ignored tradition and built a superspeedway. A lot of things have changed over the years, and "tradition" sounds like an excuse for your xenophobia
I highly doubt the japanese community is gonna sit down every sunday or saturday and watch the NASCAR races and FORD and Chevys were built in the US WAY before anyone knew what a Toyota was.What about all the Americans that work in Toyota factories? Are they allowed to watch NASCAR? I don't think NASCAR allowed Toyota to join to attract a Japanese audience - they allowed them in because Toyota sells more cars in the United States than Ford does, and if there's anything that's part of NASCAR tradition, it's racing the cars that people actually drive (or at least the manufacturers that they drive).

It sorta changing tradition like baseball. Baseball was an American sport and now there might be 4 or 5 real American-born players and the others come from Costa Rica and Dominican Republic. Am i the only one that realizes there isn't going to be such thing as "american tradition" anymore?
You must not watch much baseball if you think there are only 4 or 5 real American-born players in the league. Let's look at the lineup cards from Game 5 of the World Series last year:

Detroit Tigers:
Curtis Granderson (Blue Island, IL)
Craig Monroe (Texarkana, TX)
> Jeff Zumaya (Chula Vista, CA)
Carlos Guillen (Maracay, Venezuela)
Magglio Ordonez (Caracas, Venezuela)
Sean Casey (Willingsboro, NJ)
> Ramon Santiago (Las Matas de Farfan, Dominican Republic)
Ivan Rodriguez (Vega Baja, Puerto Rico)
Placido Polanco (Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic)
Justin Verlander (Manakin-Sabot, VA)
> Alexis Gomez (Loma de Cabrera, Dominican Republic)
> Fernando Rodney (Samana, Dominican Republic)
> Marcus Thames (Louisville, MS)

St. Louis Cardinals:
David Eckstein (Sanford, FL)
Chris Duncan (Tucson, AZ)
> Preston Wilson (Bamberg, SC)
Albert Pujols (Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic)
Jim Edmonds (Fullerton, CA)
Scott Rolen (Jasper, IN)
Ronnie Belliard (Bronx, NY)
Yadier Molina (Bayamon, Puerto Rico)
So Taguchi (Hyogo Prefecture, Japan)
Jeff Weaver (Northridge, CA)
> Scott Spiezio (Joliet, IL)
> Adam Wainwright (Brunswick, GA)

...so about half the Tigers and three-fourths of the Cardinals were born in America. That's about average, with 27% of Major League players on Opening Day rosters last year being foreign-born (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/wires/04/05/2010.ap.bbo.foreign.players.1st.ld.writethru.0195/).

Even the foreign-born players all grew up in countries heavily influenced by American tradition and they followed their dreams to the United States to play baseball. I can't think of anything more American than that.

But if it doesnt matter that toyota is in it now how does it feel knowing you wont be employed in a couple years if you cant speak fluent spanish and have to get rid of the dollar and use pesos :doh:The funny thing is that none of the players I listed were from Mexico, and Toyota obviously isn't from Mexico, so I'm not sure why you're so concerned about getting rid of the dollar and using pesos. Perhaps you are speaking more from ignorance and prejudice than a concern with American tradition.

[Xameil]

Perhaps you are speaking more from ignorance and prejudice than a concern with American tradition.


This about sums it up I think :cheers:

[zoony]

Somebody had (has?) a sig on ES that said "Don't wish the game was easier, wish you were better"

That kind of sums it up w/ regard to people bitching about Toyota coming in. If anything, it should help competition, and make the racing better.


IMH opinion though, I think Toyota is going to have a much tougher time of it than they realize.

....

[Xameil]

I agree. I thought the Red Bull rides would make it, or at least Vickers would make it...how wrong I was.

[praise_gibbs]

Somebody had (has?) a sig on ES that said "Don't wish the game was easier, wish you were better"

That kind of sums it up w/ regard to people bitching about Toyota coming in. If anything, it should help competition, and make the racing better.


IMH opinion though, I think Toyota is going to have a much tougher time of it than they realize.

....


I had that in my sig. It was a quote from Jim Rohn, a Network Marketing Guru.

"Don't wish it were easier.. Wish you were better."

[Xameil]

I had that in my sig. It was a quote from Jim Rohn, a Network Marketing Guru.

"Don't wish it were easier.. Wish you were better."


what up PG...long time no see

[praise_gibbs]

what up PG...long time no see


X!

Yeah, working a lot and sleeping a little. 3 jobs and trying to get my business off the ground. Not much time for anything. That should change shortly. If I ever receive the damned package from FedEx!!! :tantrum:


Things good with you?

[Xameil]

X!

Yeah, working a lot and sleeping a little. 3 jobs and trying to get my business off the ground. Not much time for anything. That should change shortly. If I ever receive the damned package from FedEx!!! :tantrum:


Things good with you?


yeah things are great. Just tired alot...

[GibbsFactor]

They said nothing of the trackbar. They said a bolt was misaligned. Those were the exact words. If it was a trackbar, they would have said trackbar ;)

Bolt on a trackbar. Have you ever seen them adjust the trackbar? Ever wonder what happens when they spin that wrench? There's a bolt that cranks up and down on the suspension. That bolt, broke so his track bar fell to the lower then what was allowed.

[Xameil]

Bolt on a trackbar. Have you ever seen them adjust the trackbar? Ever wonder what happens when they spin that wrench? There's a bolt that cranks up and down on the suspension. That bolt, broke so his track bar fell to the lower then what was allowed.


Try again...Jeff Gordon is accepting the penalty, he knows what they did was wrong. He gotr away with it. It may have been a bolt in the trackbar, but the trackbar never broke, hence the mechanic did it on purpose ;)