Jets set to toss RAMSEY

[REDMAN7]

FEB 28th article :logo:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/501388p-422803c.html

[HapHaszard]

I doubt they will be able to trade him since everyone will figure they will cut him anyway.
Why pay a draft choice?

[DWinzit]

I feel for Patrick, that damn Spurrior ruined him!:mad:

[Henry]

That's too bad. I really liked the kid. It would have been nice to see things work out for him there.

[tizzod]

Too bad. You don't like to see something like that happen to a good person.

[BWareofDWare94]

I feel for Patrick, that damn Spurrior ruined him!:mad:


I totally agree all biased opinions aside between us, The Ramsey situation is sad. I mean He is a decent QB and has some great stuff, he will never get a chance b/c of Spurrier......

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

maybe the skins sign him to backup mark? haha wouldnt that be funny

[Xameil]

That is a shame. Would be a totally different situation if not for Spurrier.

[Hooper]

Maske said Marvin Lewis may want him to backup Palmer.

[SC3]

Maske said Marvin Lewis may want him to backup Palmer.

That would be interesting.

[DWinzit]

Maske said Marvin Lewis may want him to backup Palmer.Marvin is a good man and thinks he can save everyone. He remembers the pre-spurrior Patrick, good player and great character!

[McMetal]

That's too bad. I really liked the kid. It would have been nice to see things work out for him there.

Yeah, a lot of us would have liked to see things work out for him HERE.

Who did we end up taking with that draft pick we got for him anyway? Was it Doughty?

[Isifhan]

Was it Doughty?

Golston wasn't it?

[jbooma]

I guess he is not the next Brett Farve then :doh:

[Isifhan]

I guess he is not the next Brett Farve then :doh:

Sure he is, he just hasn't been given the chance!




/sarcasm off

[ntotoro]

There comes a time when people have to stop blaming Spurrier (a guy who hasn't even spoken to Patrick in over three years) and start blaming the gray matter between Patrick's ears.

[HEavyJumbo85]

man, next stop dallas...or maybe oakland...either way Poor Patrick...

[Hooper]

There comes a time when people have to stop blaming Spurrier (a guy who hasn't even spoken to Patrick in over three years) and start blaming the gray matter between Patrick's ears.

Agreed. Ramsey just doesn't have the football smarts or instincts to be a consistent qb in this league.

[WileCoyote]

^agrees I never really liked him,cause I never thought he was really any good......

[Califan007]

Ramsey seems to need more confidence in himself as well as more confidence in his o-line...neither are easy to change at this point in his career. He also needs to be in a situation where he's not competing for the starting position...he tries too hard and forces things too much when he feels like he has to prove his worth immediately, and there's no coaching staff in existence that's gonna commit three years to Ramsey's development as their starter. But if he latches on with a stable coaching staff as their guaranteed 2nd string QB he could find himself on a few teams' radars several years down the road. He could be another Testeverde and have a few successful seasons as a starter while in his 30s.

[skinsdude]

There comes a time when people have to stop blaming Spurrier (a guy who hasn't even spoken to Patrick in over three years) and start blaming the gray matter between Patrick's ears.

Unfortunately that is true. Patrick does not have a football mind. He has most of the physical skills but not the mental skills.

[zoony]

I would ACTUALLY say that Spurrier probably got more out of Patrick Ramsey than should have been possible.


So the argument that Spurrier ruined Ramsey's career is, in my opininon, completely oppositte of what actually happened.

Spurrier's system and tutoring of Ramsey actually gave the illusion that Ramsey might have been able to compete in the NFL. In short, Ramsey had his best years under Spurrier, and Spurrier should be given all the credit in the world for getting as much out of Ramsey as he did.

...

[Califan007]

I would ACTUALLY say that Spurrier probably got more out of Patrick Ramsey than should have been possible.


So the argument that Spurrier ruined Ramsey's career is, in my opininon, completely oppositte of what actually happened.

Spurrier's system and tutoring of Ramsey actually gave the illusion that Ramsey might have been able to compete in the NFL. In short, Ramsey had his best years under Spurrier, and Spurrier should be given all the credit in the world for getting as much out of Ramsey as he did.

...
Nah, Spurrier made an already jumpy young QB even MORE jumpy in the pocket by disregarding pass protection...as well as Spurrier actually screwed around with Ramsey's throwing mechanics in order to try and have him release the ball a split second sooner...not to mention that Spurrier trained Ramsey to read the field differently than pretty much every other QB in the NFL reads the field.

Ramsey did a good enough job at the end of the 2004 season for Joe Gibbs to name him the 2005 starter before the 2004 season even ended. That can't be explained away as Spurrier's smoke and mirrors.

[TheLongshot]

Golston wasn't it?

No it was Doughty. Golston was our own pick in the 6th round.

Jason

[zoony]

Nah, Spurrier made an already jumpy young QB even MORE jumpy in the pocket by disregarding pass protection...as well as Spurrier actually screwed around with Ramsey's throwing mechanics in order to try and have him release the ball a split second sooner...not to mention that Spurrier trained Ramsey to read the field differently than pretty much every other QB in the NFL reads the field.


I would point to Spurrier's history with QBs... it was pretty exemplary. He won games with Shane Matthews back there :doh:


As for the pass protection part of it, Spurrier was unfairly criticized for that, to an extent. Ramsey's inability to get rid of the football and read the coverage led to the majority of sacks & hits.

When Ramsey DID make the correct read, it was a thing of beauty. (anyone remember when Spurrier beat Bellicheck's Patriots in 2003? Early in the game, Ramsey caught the Patriots blitzing by throwing a dump pass over the LOS to a streaking Chad Morton, which he took 50 yards iirc. After that, Bellicheck called off the dogs.)


Look, Spurrier isn't dumb. He KNEW NFL defenses were coming after Patrick. He expected it. But rather than keeping an extra man in to block, he would send another man out into coverage to take advantage of the mismatch. Problem is, Ramsey couldn't find him in time.

With a QB like Brady, Spurrier would have been deadly. If you watch the Patriots, they line up with only 5 guys to block on several occasions. But Brady always beats the blitz with his delivery.

The thing I DO fault Spurrier for is not realizing that Ramsey was not his guy, and thinking that he could groom him. One season could have been enough, but Spurrier felt like he could train him. Gibbs and the Jets both > Spurrier in this regard.



Ramsey did a good enough job at the end of the 2004 season for Joe Gibbs to name him the 2005 starter before the 2004 season even ended. That can't be explained away as Spurrier's smoke and mirrors.


This was the same year that Gibbs traded away draft picks in order to get Jason Campbell, right?

Ramsey won the job because of Brunell's poor play, not because he actually "won" it. That was evidenced by Gibbs' decision after Week 1. The fact that Ramsey wasn't benched in the preseason was only because Gibbs' had made Ramsey that pledge.

...

[BWareofDWare94]

Unfortunately that is true. Patrick does not have a football mind. He has most of the physical skills but not the mental skills.

inlighten us, how do you know this. Did you give him some IQ test that showed this or are you just throwing that out there?

I love it when we (the fans) throw out things like this...We have no frigin clue, but we dont hesitate to pretend to know it all.

:laugh::laugh:

[Califan007]

I would point to Spurrier's history with QBs... it was pretty exemplary. He won games with Shane Matthews back there :doh:
He won very few games with Shane Matthews back there, so that's not really making anything close to a valid point lol...Wuerffel and Shuler both won games in the NFL, doesn't really point to anything other than the "even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then" philosophy.



As for the pass protection part of it, Spurrier was unfairly criticized for that, to an extent. Ramsey's inability to get rid of the football and read the coverage led to the majority of sacks & hits.

When Ramsey DID make the correct read, it was a thing of beauty. (anyone remember when Spurrier beat Bellicheck's Patriots in 2003? Early in the game, Ramsey caught the Patriots blitzing by throwing a dump pass over the LOS to a streaking Chad Morton, which he took 50 yards iirc. After that, Bellicheck called off the dogs.)


Look, Spurrier isn't dumb. He KNEW NFL defenses were coming after Patrick. He expected it. But rather than keeping an extra man in to block, he would send another man out into coverage to take advantage of the mismatch. Problem is, Ramsey couldn't find him in time.

With a QB like Brady, Spurrier would have been deadly. If you watch the Patriots, they line up with only 5 guys to block on several occasions. But Brady always beats the blitz with his delivery.
So Spurrier would have had a high-flying offense if not for Ramsey?...That's a bit of a stretch. Besides, 5 defenders can get by 5 blockers, and with the speed of defensive players a QB can be killed on a sack 2 seconds after the snap with the right man blitzing. If your only reaction to that is to send out yet another receiver, then I do blame the coach more than the player...especially when that player is a rookie and ends up getting injured from the abuse in his second season.




The thing I DO fault Spurrier for is not realizing that Ramsey was not his guy, and thinking that he could groom him. One season could have been enough, but Spurrier felt like he could train him. Gibbs and the Jets both > Spurrier in this regard.
Actually, Spurrier thought Wuerffel was his guy lol :laugh:...Ramsey was somewhat forced on him.




This was the same year that Gibbs traded away draft picks in order to get Jason Campbell, right?

Ramsey won the job because of Brunell's poor play, not because he actually "won" it. That was evidenced by Gibbs' decision after Week 1. The fact that Ramsey wasn't benched in the preseason was only because Gibbs' had made Ramsey that pledge.

...
He traded away the draft picks for Campbell months after naming Ramsey his starter for 2005...but it's irrelevant anyway. I was referring to the thought you mentioned that Spurrier made people think Ramsey was better than he really was. Gibbs' decision to announce Ramsey as starter was in no way due to what he saw on film during Spurrier's time as coach, it was due to what he saw on the field at the end of 2004. And Gibbs didn't have to name a starter at all, so it wasn't only because Brunell was so awful. Gibbs could have announced an open competition. I think that Gibbs announcing Ramsey as the starter before the season even ended said ****loads...he could have waited. Why would Gibbs not wait until after the season before announcing a QB he has little faith in as starter?

[zoony]

He won very few games with Shane Matthews back there, so that's not really making anything close to a valid point lol...Wuerffel and Shuler both won games in the NFL, doesn't really point to anything other than the "even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then" philosophy.



Just about every QB who came thru the U of FL was an All-American. And none of these guys did **** in the NFL.

So if you want to throw that out the window based on his 2 year NFL tenure, be my guest. Just consider what he had to work with. Then look at Ramsey's success with the Jets and the Redskins without Spurrier, and consider it. That's all I'm saying.



So Spurrier would have had a high-flying offense if not for Ramsey?...That's a bit of a stretch. Besides, 5 defenders can get by 5 blockers, and with the speed of defensive players a QB can be killed on a sack 2 seconds after the snap with the right man blitzing. If your only reaction to that is to send out yet another receiver, then I do blame the coach more than the player...especially when that player is a rookie and ends up getting injured from the abuse in his second season.


I'm not absolving Spurrier here. He should have damn well known that Ramsey has the reaction time of a sloth. With certain NFL QB's, his system could have been deadly. Marion, Brady, etc. Of course, those QB's are few and far between... so imho Spurrier should have taken his foot off the gas to make his system more accomodating. He didn't. Instead, he honestly thought he could groom Ramsey or Wuerffel for that role. He should have done a better job recognizing what he had to work with.


Actually, Spurrier thought Wuerffel was his guy lol :laugh:...Ramsey was somewhat forced on him.


I believe the term he used was "cheap and available".




He traded away the draft picks for Campbell months after naming Ramsey his starter for 2005...but it's irrelevant anyway. I was referring to the thought you mentioned that Spurrier made people think Ramsey was better than he really was. Gibbs' decision to announce Ramsey as starter was in no way due to what he saw on film during Spurrier's time as coach, it was due to what he saw on the field at the end of 2004.

You're forgetting that the very first thing that Gibbs did when he got to Washington was go get a QB. He'd seen enough on Ramsey. Most of the NFL world did, except for AJ_Skins and Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin. And you of course. :silly:

And Gibbs didn't have to name a starter at all, so it wasn't only because Brunell was so awful. Gibbs could have announced an open competition. I think that Gibbs announcing Ramsey as the starter before the season even ended said ****loads...he could have waited. Why would Gibbs not wait until after the season before announcing a QB he has little faith in as starter?


I think Gibbs named Ramsey the starter in an effort to give him some confidence... which was obviously shaken because it was fairly clear towards the end of 2004 that Ramsey had:
-No capability of throwing the deep ball
-Trouble reading defenses
-Trouble with 'touch' passes

But his real motives we'll never know.

What I DO know is that actions speak louder than words... and what history will remember about the 04-05 offseason is Gibbs' trading draft picks to get his QB, and Gibbs giving Brunell the starting nod after 1/2 of a regular season game.

....

[Hooper]

Ramsey doesn't see the field and takes forever to make a decision. If his first read is open, he's golden. If not, the feet get happy and all breaks loose. Not once did I feel comfortable watching him drop back. Obviously, neither did Gibbs.

Who knows what kind of player Jason Campbell turns into? But one thing is already clear: unlike Ramsey, he has fantastic football instincts. His pocket presence, is downright scary poise -- that's what I've been pleased with the most.

[Califan007]

Just about every QB who came thru the U of FL was an All-American. And none of these guys did **** in the NFL.
Which, if you look at it from a different angle, would suggest that Spurrier knows little about developing a QB for the NFL...which would, I guess, give validity to the train of thought that Spurrier helped "ruin" Ramsey.



So if you want to throw that out the window based on his 2 year NFL tenure, be my guest. Just consider what he had to work with. Then look at Ramsey's success with the Jets and the Redskins without Spurrier, and consider it. That's all I'm saying.
Another way of looking at it is to say that two of the three coaches Ramsey worked with thought he was good enough to be named starter for the next season during the season in which he was clearly considered the back-up...and in neither case was Ramsey the coach's "hand picked" guy, he was more or less forced upon both.




I'm not absolving Spurrier here. He should have damn well known that Ramsey has the reaction time of a sloth.
:laugh: :laugh:

Don't insult sloths... ;)




With certain NFL QB's, his system could have been deadly. Marion, Brady, etc. Of course, those QB's are few and far between... so imho Spurrier should have taken his foot off the gas to make his system more accomodating. He didn't. Instead, he honestly thought he could groom Ramsey or Wuerffel for that role. He should have done a better job recognizing what he had to work with.
That's for damn sure...and who's Marion?





I believe the term he used was "cheap and available".
That's the term he used for the group of U of FL free agents as a whole...but he kept championing Wuerffel, and even brought him back the second season. I think it was Snyder who forced Spurrier to cut Wuerffel his second season as coach, and it was also Snyder/Cerrato who trumped Spurrier and drafted Ramsey...at least that's how I remember it. Could be wrong, though.






You're forgetting that the very first thing that Gibbs did when he got to Washington was go get a QB. He'd seen enough on Ramsey. Most of the NFL world did, except for AJ_Skins and Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin. And you of course. :silly:
LOL...But that doesn't explain why he STILL went and named Ramsey starter for 2005 before the 2004 season even ended. That, to me, sounds like a vote of confidence in Ramsey, even if that confidence didn't last as long as it should have considering the move he had made months earlier.




I think Gibbs named Ramsey the starter in an effort to give him some confidence... which was obviously shaken because it was fairly clear towards the end of 2004 that Ramsey had:
-No capability of throwing the deep ball
-Trouble reading defenses
-Trouble with 'touch' passes

But his real motives we'll never know.
But that still goes against Gibbs taking the action of announcing Ramsey as starter during a press conference with only one or two games left in 2004. It also contradicts his trading draft picks to get Jason Campbell a few months later. If his goal was to boost confidence then why yank that very confidence out from under him by doing so much to draft his apparent replacement? And if Gibbs' goal was to instill confidence into Ramsey for thos few games at the end of 2004 only, then that would have to be one of the most boneheaded moves ever made by anyone calling themselves a coach...

I still think his real motives were that he saw enough in Ramsey at the end of 2004 to say "I feel comfortable with Ramsey as my starter". I don't think Gibbs expected to have a Jason Campbell wow him during workouts right before the draft (although I do think Gibbs was always in search of a QB he could feel was "his guy" and had the qualities that Ramsey lacked and that Brunell was losing).





What I DO know is that actions speak louder than words... and what history will remember about the 04-05 offseason is Gibbs' trading draft picks to get his QB, and Gibbs giving Brunell the starting nod after 1/2 of a regular season game.

....
Gibbs' actions are what I'm talking about, too...and naming Ramsey as his starter at the end of 2004 spoke to something more than Spurrier's smoke and mirrors or Brunell's dropdead atrocious performance at the time. Gibbs is no idiot, especially when it comes to QBs. There's no way he was naming a complete bust as his starting QB for the types of reasons fans tend to come up with. What I DO know is that, no matter what his reasons, Gibbs completely screwed up the handlng of Ramsey's situation.

[TaylorPickSix]

Do you think he would come back as a #3 for Washington if Collins leaves?

[Johnny Punani]

Ramsey is not an NFL QB. He needs to give it up and use the two degrees he has in a normal job.

[Califan007]

Do you think he would come back as a #3 for Washington if Collins leaves?
I hope not lol :laugh:...I think the world of Ramsey as a person and still think he can be a quality QB in the league IF all the right conditions are present for him...but being the Skins' #3 QB wouldn't help him OR the Redskins one iota. Time for the Skins to go out and find another young QB to develop.

[WileCoyote]

noooooooooo we don't want him back,we got rid of him for a reason.....

[Sarge]

Another danny pick, soon to be selling cars

[JerseyGator]

Quarterbacks who do not have it mentally will not do well in Spurrier's system. Never have and never will. His system has relied on finding mismatches quickly at the LOS on each play.

I never thought Ramsey had it. The Jets OC played for the Gators too and I think he (Schottenheimer) realized rather quickly that Ramsey didn't have it either.

[Rdskns2000]

PAtrick sucks. The whole 2002 first round QB class sucks. Patrick is getting what he deserves. He's not a starting QB in the NFL. Jets only traded for him last year because they weren't sure about Pennington.