FA moves right/wrong/good/bad

[BWareofDWare94]

Since TR1 does not allow us (other fans) to bring up the Redskins in threads realated to other teams (Boys, Eagles and Giants), I thought i'd start a new one.

Can all those Skin fans that are honest, admit to any of the FA signings/trades of 05 (AA, ARE, Lloydd and Duckett) were bad? Seriously you cant all be the same as TR1 and Bubba, someone has to be able to say....hey maybe AA for all that money was a bad move...or you know what for what ARE did, our FO may have over spent....or what the heck was our FO thinking giving up those picks for Duckett and/or Lloyd.......I left Carter out cause i think for the money you guys spent on him, he did enough late in the season to be a good deal for the team.

[Califan007]

Since TR1 does not allow us (other fans) to bring up the Redskins in threads realated to other teams (Boys, Eagles and Giants), I thought i'd start a new one.

Can all those Skin fans that are honest, admit to any of the FA signings/trades of 05 (AA, ARE, Lloydd and Duckett) were bad?
You don't frequent the Stadium forum much, do you... :laugh:

[Lloyds' Mongolian Beef]

A. Carter started to turn around last year and I believe that will turn out to be a good move. I'll give Lloyd and Arch one more year before declaring anything on them. Duckett, obviously is one of the worst moves by any team in recent memory. A cost production analysis would reveal atrocious value and we are once again left struggling to bring in young talent. So, all that being said, to this point Duckett is awful, but Lloyd and Arch deserve another year, although it hasn't looked good so far. Carter will be good/productive

[BWareofDWare94]

You don't frequent the Stadium forum much, do you... :laugh:

no, its not my place to. I am not a fan of the Redskins, so that’s not the place for me. i stay right here in the ATNFL, because i am a visitor from another fan base, and i come here to talk about all the teams and the article posted about them. i think the stadium should be and is about true Skins fans talking about their team.

[OWUeagleMD]

A lot of what goes on in here is similar to a big brother's relationship with his younger brother's bully. Big brother is allowed to pick on little brother, but when a bully does the same it's a problem. People in Stadium rant about the Skins all the time, but when they come in here they take offense to what we might say about their team.

I'm the same way. At the EMB I complain about our LBs quite a bit, and though I don't defend that unit when I'm here, I do generally steer conversations in a different direction.

[Califan007]

A. Carter started to turn around last year and I believe that will turn out to be a good move. I'll give Lloyd and Arch one more year before declaring anything on them. Duckett, obviously is one of the worst moves by any team in recent memory. A cost production analysis would reveal atrocious value and we are once again left struggling to bring in young talent. So, all that being said, to this point Duckett is awful, but Lloyd and Arch deserve another year, although it hasn't looked good so far. Carter will be good/productive
And ARE was a good signing, even if we wish we had saved a few more $$$ doing so...

[Califan007]

no, its not my place to. I am not a fan of the Redskins, so that’s not the place for me. i stay right here in the ATNFL, because i am a visitor from another fan base, and i come here to talk about all the teams and the article posted about them. i think the stadium should be and is about true Skins fans talking about their team.
Well, even a slightly lazy browsing of the Stadium forum would show you that your initial question never needed to be asked, and this thread is completely unnecessary...

[BWareofDWare94]

And ARE was a good signing, even if we wish we had saved a few more $$$ doing so...


why? What did he do to make you say that? Just asking.

Carter deal is fine by me, but "give AA and Lloyd another shot"...I just dont get it.....You had to see enough out of those two to admit it was a bad FA deal for both....

[McMetal]

This does not belong in Around the NFL.

If you want to bash the Skins, have the stones to do it in the Stadium.

This forum is strictly for bashing other teams. :)

[BWareofDWare94]

Well, even a slightly lazy browsing of the Stadium forum would show you that your initial question never needed to be asked, and this thread is completely unnecessary...


Why is talking about the Skins FA moves an unnecessary thread? Its ok to speak of all the FA moves in regards to all the other NFCE teams...and once again, I am not going into the stadium because its not a place for me. I want to talk about the NFL in the ATNFL section....and that includes talking about the Skins.

[OWUeagleMD]

Antwaan Randle El is an exciting player who changes games. He's still a wild card being payed like a #1 wide receiver.

[BWareofDWare94]

This does not belong in Around the NFL.

If you want to bash the Skins, have the stones to do it in the Stadium.

This forum is strictly for bashing other teams. :)

No its not. Its about talking about other teams AND the Skins......and I am not bashing them, just trying to get honest opinions from the members in ATNFL that i talk with.....

[BWareofDWare94]

Antwaan Randle El is an exciting player who changes games. He's still a wild card being payed like a #1 wide receiver.

I cant think of many game changing moments from ARE in Washington...and being exciting alone gets you nothing.......I want Dallas's players to be productive, i could care less about exciting...If i wanted to see exciting, i would watch my som play Madden 2007.

[jrockster21]

ARE was a good pickup. Sure, he underproduced for what we're paying him this season, but the entire team struggled; it wasn't just ARE. I guarantee he puts up much better numbers in 2007.

The worst signing in my opinion was Lloyd - I was a HUGE fan of the move at the time for sure, but hindsight is 20/20. The thing that irks me the most is that we gave him the money when we didn't have to. We could have let him "tryout" for one season, then paid him if he performed. Now we're stuck with him, whether he turns it around or not (which I think he will).

Arch - miserable signing. Way too much money for a guy who mostly looks lost out there. The combination of letting Clark go and signing Arch for much more money might be the WORST personnell move in Skins history.


But I'm not sure why you think none of us have criticized these moves before...most reasonable Skins fans have.

[Califan007]

why? What did he do to make you say that? Just asking.

Significantly improved our punt return unit...I mean, by a HUGE amount. Filled in well as the #2 wr when Lloyd was, um, otherwise occupied lol...ARE had more TD receptions last season than Thrash, Lloyd, and Patten had combined for the Skins over the past two seasons...added a new dimension to the offense with his passing ability (and not that floating water balloon/shotput pass that Portis throws, but an actual passing threat)...and the intangibles like leadership, lockerroom presence and on-the-field motivator.

[Califan007]

Why is talking about the Skins FA moves an unnecessary thread? Its ok to speak of all the FA moves in regards to all the other NFCE teams...and once again, I am not going into the stadium because its not a place for me. I want to talk about the NFL in the ATNFL section....and that includes talking about the Skins.
Because you asked it within the context of "are any Skins fans honest enough to criticize any of the teams' FA signings"...and the Stadium is packed FULL of threads doing just that. Anyone who even spent 30 minutes just reading the threads over there would never even slightly feel the need to ask this question, nonetheless start a thread up about it with the idea that they need to try and find these types of comments from Skins fans.

[jrockster21]

Antwaan Randle El is an exciting player who changes games. He's still a wild card being payed like a #1 wide receiver.

He might not be worth what we're paying him, but I think he's going to contribute much more next year.

I cant think of many game changing moments from ARE in Washington...and being exciting alone gets you nothing.......I want Dallas's players to be productive, i could care less about exciting...If i wanted to see exciting, i would watch my som play Madden 2007.

In case you didn't notice, there weren't many game-changing moments from anyone this past season. :doh:

[Lloyds' Mongolian Beef]

why? What did he do to make you say that? Just asking.

Carter deal is fine by me, but "give AA and Lloyd another shot"...I just dont get it.....You had to see enough out of those two to admit it was a bad FA deal for both....Absolutely not. Archuleta was our leading tackler before being pulled. The reason he was pulled was because we were struggling in pass D. It turns out that was in large part due to the abscence of Springs and terrible production from the d-line. I'll wait until I see him in there with a #1CB and legitimate line, which will both be upgraded this offseason.

Lloyd I am more willing to give up on, only because he seems to have a much worse, me-first attitude. It is widely know that Al Saunders offense is the hardest to learn in the NFL. For that reason and because timing is everything, I'm willing to give Lloyd an offseason to work on learning the playbook and get his timing down with Campbell.

ARE is good and very underrated. His statistical production from last year was less than impressive, but he was an important part of the offense, and will be a weapon for years to come. He will be worth eveyr penny, although I imagine ALL their deals will be restructured in three or four years.

So that's how, I guess.

[Xameil]

why? What did he do to make you say that? Just asking.

Carter deal is fine by me, but "give AA and Lloyd another shot"...I just dont get it.....You had to see enough out of those two to admit it was a bad FA deal for both....


I think people say to give them another shot basically because AA was playing out of his specialty. If PP didn't get injured, AA probably would have looked better in the role he was mainly brought in for. As for Llyod, he needs another shot simply because of the QB situation. complete opposites there right down to the spin on the ball. That's why some of us are willing to give them both another shot. ARE started to look good when Campbell came i, that's why people say he wasn't a waste, and Carter is definitely coming around as he gets more and more used to the system.

[Califan007]

In case you didn't notice, there weren't many game-changing moments from anyone this past season. :doh:
Really lol :laugh:...And to his credit, ARE did have a number of possible game-changing moments (the punt for a TD against Indy, the TD pass to Moss against the Giants, etc.), that is if the rest of the team just did their part and was at least competent...

[BWareofDWare94]

Significantly improved our punt return unit...I mean, by a HUGE amount. Filled in well as the #2 wr when Lloyd was, um, otherwise occupied lol...ARE had more TD receptions last season than Thrash, Lloyd, and Patten had combined for the Skins over the past two seasons...added a new dimension to the offense with his passing ability (and not that floating water balloon/shotput pass that Portis throws, but an actual passing threat)...and the intangibles like leadership, lockerroom presence and on-the-field motivator.


Well i guess your right, went from 6.0 to 8.8 in punt returns from 2005 to 2006.

He was not the threat you make him out to be, he did not change the way Def. reacted...He was not used in Washington like he was in Pitt, he just wasnt...but you are right about the locker room presence...I will give you that, he is a stand up guy and really tried to pull that group together........

[BWareofDWare94]

Because you asked it within the context of "are any Skins fans honest enough to criticize any of the teams' FA signings"...and the Stadium is packed FULL of threads doing just that. Anyone who even spent 30 minutes just reading the threads over there would never even slightly feel the need to ask this question, nonetheless start a thread up about it with the idea that they need to try and find these types of comments from Skins fans.


oooook...but i have spent ZERO seconds in the stadium threads...so whats the point. Just answer the questions or ignore it.

[BWareofDWare94]

He might not be worth what we're paying him, but I think he's going to contribute much more next year.

key word is think.........As long as we all know you are just going off of redskin fan instinc and not actual fact.



In case you didn't notice, there weren't many game-changing moments from anyone this past season. :doh:


Well of course i noticed........it wasa highlite to the 2006 season. :laugh:

[Califan007]

Well i guess your right, went from 6.0 to 8.8 in punt returns from 2005 to 2006.
A quick viewing of the stats on NFL.com won't show you all the times Antonio Brown muffed a punt or fumbled upon being hit. Every punt return was a cause for holding your breath in 2005 if you were a Skins fan, because you didn't know if it was going to result in an easy turnover for the opposition. ARE solidified that position by leaps and bounds. Only someone who never watched the Skins would dispute that fact.



He was not the threat you make him out to be, he did not change the way Def. reacted...
Care to back that up?



He was not used in Washington like he was in Pitt, he just wasnt...
Who said he was, or had to be?...



but you are right about the locker room presence...I will give you that, he is a stand up guy and really tried to pull that group together........

[Spartacus87]

You don't frequent the Stadium forum much, do you... :laugh: Seriously- Archuleta and Lloyd and their worth are always being debated, with the majority usually calling for them to get cut.

Duckett was an awful, awful move, no Redskins fan would disagree with that. Straight up panic, even though Byner tried to tell everyone Betts could fill in fine for Portis. That trade will live in infamy for a little while, for sure.
Archuleta, to me, should get another year. I say this based on two things- #1- Lovie Smith wanted him back under him pretty bad, and I think Lovie knows a thing or two about scouting defensive players. #2- I think Archuleta's awful performance in coverage roles could be attributed to the fact that that wasn't why he was brought in to the defense- I think Williams screwed up a lot of the coaching/scheming this past year on defense and Archuleta quickly became public enemy #1 when people didn't want to blame Sean Taylor for the same kinds of problems. Unfortunately Carlos Rogers then unfairly took Adam's heat once he was benched, but I digress...Adam was brought into to be a presence at the line and blitz more, or so everyone thought, and instead Williams had him doing the opposite.
Lloyd also could use another year, but I have less hope for him. I find it hard to believe a guy that had 800 yards and 5 TD's with that God-awful 49er's offense a couple years ago could be this unproductive here, but if the stories are true about him resisting coaching even from Saunders himself, then who knows.
Randle El- can't complain. People, namely the media, love to act like he got a big contract as a reciever. He's also a pretty dangerous return man, and everytime he got a punt myself, along with many other Skins fans I assume, got a little excited to see how it was going to turn out. He makes for a good #3 and even a decent #2.5 sometimes, and I think some more work Campbell will further prove that. Plus he's a great lockerroom guy.
Carter- Also can't complain. By the end of the season he was really coming on, it seemed like he was always getting held and double teamed (especially in that last Giants game), so with a good DT or DE in the draft, I think his production will increase even more.

[Califan007]

oooook...but i have spent ZERO seconds in the stadium threads...so whats the point. Just answer the questions or ignore it.
I did answer it. I answered it by basically saying "Good lord, there are nothing BUT Skins fans criticizing FA moves from last offseason. You must not visit the Stadium forum."

If your desire was indeed to see if Skins fans can be "honest" in their assessments of last years' FA signings, you would have gone thru the trouble of clicking the Stadium link at least once. You don't have to be a Skins fan to go to that forum, you just have to be genuine in what it is you're really after.

[Califan007]

Seriously- Archuleta and Lloyd and their worth are always being debated, with the majority usually calling for them to get cut.

Hell, there are fans and posts there calling for Joe Gibbs to be fired and for a "real GM" to be hired because of last year's FA signings lol :laugh:...

[CPortJGibbs89]

I still til this day can not understand why we signed AA to a rediculous contract when we already had a guy who would have taken a third of the money we paid, I miss Ryan Clark. I think that was the biggest disaster in FA the skins have made. It looks as of right now he is staying a skin, unless we get some solid corners and a rush he is not going to be able to do anything next year for this defense.

I wont give up on Lloyd just yet. I saw what he did with the 49ers, not just the crazy one handed catches but he is a solid number 2 option next to Moss. Our whole passing game was a disaster last year and I think he deserves one more shot to start and if he does not improve move along please.

The whole Duckett deal might almost be tied with the AA disaster now that I think about it. We gave up draft picks and made this guy ride the bench for almost the entire year and while finding out what kind of stud we had in Betts. We only needed Betts and and could have found someone cheap to spell him. Everyone thought Duckett would be this great goaline back and we barley ever used him for that. We use to use him for freaking toss plays.

ARE is a keeper. Again I give him a pass due to our entire passing game being a disaster and with Campbell under center for the whole off-season and from game 1 I believe it will be much better. ARE has the ability to take it to the house at anytime on punts and recieving. He can throw the ball and take reverses for big gains. I think he is a great leader and shows great emotion and has a ring.

I have said before on this site that I just had an overall bad feeling going into last season. Everyone was saying superbowl this and that and we finially had all the right players. But deep down I thought what if everything just goes wrong and none of these FA work out, and sure enough... But for some reason I just have a good feeling going into this season. No superbowl talk from me ever again after this but I just have a good feeling....

[BWareofDWare94]

A quick viewing of the stats on NFL.com won't show you all the times Antonio Brown muffed a punt or fumbled upon being hit. Every punt return was a cause for holding your breath in 2005 if you were a Skins fan, because you didn't know if it was going to result in an easy turnover for the opposition. ARE solidified that position by leaps and bounds. Only someone who never watched the Skins would dispute that fact.

Well i see your point on the fumbling issue that he may have resolved. I guess i have not seen enough of the Skins to make that judgment....my bad. I know what its like to be nervous with every punt return.





Care to back that up?

only with the fact that Santana had a down year with ARE in the lineup, and the year b4 Moss had his best year ever and was the only WR (good wr) on the field.....ARE and Lloyd both were brought in to help Moss and get him the ball more. Making teams cover other WR...like lloyd and ARE....was supposed to make Moss even more of a threat. Well that sure as heck dint happen. So yea i guess i will back that up.





Who said he was, or had to be?...

Well what else was he brought in to do. The Skins didnt bring him in to change who he was did they? No....they liked what he diud for Pitt and thought they would enjoy the same success....but that didnt happen.

[jrockster21]

Really lol :laugh:...And to his credit, ARE did have a number of possible game-changing moments (the punt for a TD against Indy, the TD pass to Moss against the Giants, etc.), that is if the rest of the team just did their part and was at least competent...

Exactly. The punt return against Minnesota comes to mind as well.

ARE's biggest game was against Philly...he caught that beautiful 30-yard TD, then threw a 40 yard bomb to Lloyd, which SHOULD have set up the winning TD, but Saunders went away from Betts for some odd reason. :mad:

[BWareofDWare94]

Hell, there are fans and posts there calling for Joe Gibbs to be fired and for a "real GM" to be hired because of last year's FA signings lol :laugh:...

well if thats true, that good lord, there is another reason to stay out of the Stadium.....Gibbs fired, from Skins fans....man:doh: that must suck to go in and see that......

I am no Skins fan, but Gibbs should have a ten year buffer for all he has done for this franchise.....

[jrockster21]

key word is think.........As long as we all know you are just going off of redskin fan instinc and not actual fact.


Okay, as long as we all know your bashing is coming from Redskin haterade and not actual fact. ;)

[Califan007]

Exactly. The punt return against Minnesota comes to mind as well.

ARE's biggest game was against Philly...he caught that beautiful 30-yard TD, then threw a 40 yard bomb to Lloyd, which SHOULD have set up the winning TD, but Saunders went away from Betts for some odd reason. :mad:
Oh man, I forgot about that game...perfect example of why ARE should be seen as a good signing, even if the game ended up being lost.

[Califan007]

well if thats true, that good lord, there is another reason to stay out of the Stadium.....Gibbs fired, from Skins fans....man:doh: that must suck to go in and see that......

I am no Skins fan, but Gibbs should have a ten year buffer for all he has done for this franchise.....
That's why we come over here lol :laugh:...to escape the seemingly nonstop negative assessment that can often overtake the Stadium at times. Your thread was kinda like asking them to bring it over here as well lol... :doh:

[BWareofDWare94]

Okay, as long as we all know your bashing is coming from Redskin haterade and not actual fact. ;)


man i am not hating...just having friendly debates.......You have made good points as a few others have too. I just wanted to see how you all felt. I can discuss football in regards to any team....even the Skins.....without hating

[jrockster21]

Oh man, I forgot about that game...perfect example of why ARE should be seen as a good signing, even if the game ended up being lost.


We're going to see a lot more of that type of contribution in 2007 - the offense as a whole will be 10 times better. We'll have Portis back, Campbell has improved with every snap, and the entire team has a year of Saunders' offense under its belt. And hopefully we're going to get back to guts-n-power as well, like we did towards the end of last season.

[BWareofDWare94]

That's why we come over here lol :laugh:...to escape the seemingly nonstop negative assessment that can often overtake the Stadium at times. Your thread was kinda like asking them to bring it over here as well lol... :doh:


...My bad....damn thats a good point, sorry about that.


I cant stand two things about fan forums.....the constant "we suck" "fire the coach" and " what a bad move" ect.....

and the constant love fest for your team......I can go over to any Dallas forum and just gush over how wonderful things are...but 10 minutes of that would make me sick. I love my boys, but even i know they arn't perfect...far from it.

[MisterPinstripe]

man i am not hating...just having friendly debates.......You have made good points as a few others have too. I just wanted to see how you all felt. I can discuss football in regards to any team....even the Skins.....without hating

Well, I honestly think that the problems in the passing game stemmed from the QB play(Brunell not having the ability to throw downfield a well as his huge drops, and Jason playing for the first time.) as well as the play calling. Randle El I feel pretty confident will have much better numbers next year, and as others have said, and for the reasons I just stated, I would want to give Lloyd another chance. He was able to do decently in the 49ers offense so its not like he is bad. Something in the whole situation was not working.

[Califan007]

only with the fact that Santana had a down year with ARE in the lineup, and the year b4 Moss had his best year ever and was the only WR (good wr) on the field.....ARE and Lloyd both were brought in to help Moss and get him the ball more. Making teams cover other WR...like lloyd and ARE....was supposed to make Moss even more of a threat. Well that sure as heck dint happen. So yea i guess i will back that up.
Santana was injured and missed games last season, as well as there was a new offensive scheme in place which takes a year to get used to, as well as there was a QB change in the middle of the season. I think all of those had more to do with Moss' numbers being down in 2006 than the perception that ARE wasn't gameplanned for by opposing teams.




Well what else was he brought in to do. The Skins didnt bring him in to change who he was did they? No....they liked what he diud for Pitt and thought they would enjoy the same success....but that didnt happen.
You yourself said he wasn't "used" the same way that Pitt used him, not that he wasn't as productive while being used in the same ways...which would mean that in your eyes the only way he would be considered a good signing is if he was used in the same way. I merely pointed out that ARE can (and should) still be considered a good signing regardless of whether or not he was used the exact same way in Washington as in Pittsburgh.

[boysetsfire]

I think the Carter signing was good. Considering he had played LB for 3 years I think it was, he started to show what the Skins saw in him late towards the year. With some help on the DL this year, I think he'll improve from there while also having a year under his belt at the DE spot.

ARE was also a good signing in my opinion. He might not be putting up the numbers that his contract indicates he should, but he made a difference in some regard. Hes fun to watch on punt returns and showed that he could get it done at the WR spot. I expect him to improve next year as well.

Lloyd i'm still unsure about. I'll admit that at the time I thought it was a great signing. I don't know what it was, whether it was the QB or a new offensive scheme but I was pulling for him to make an impact towards the end of the year. Obviously he didn't produce anywhere near what I thought he would. We'll see what happens with him, although i'm very excited that CP will be back 100% which I think will dramatically improve the offense.

Then we have Archuleta. I still don't get why this team had to release Clark in the first place. No he wasn't the best out there but he did get the job done and always laid it on the line. I was excited at the possibilities because he was good at blitzing. I'll also disagree with the way the coaching staff handled his situation. They basically made him the scapegoat for a horrible defense. It wasn't his fault but then again his strength isn't in coverage.

This Redskins organization has no patience but I think that they should be patient with Arch and Lloyd. They didn't produce but who knows what they'll do in the second year.

[sableholic]

ARE = Good pickup
Carter=Started to come on and look like he was worth it
Lloyd, AA, and Duckett = terrible terrible moves by our FO.

[BWareofDWare94]

Santana was injured and missed games last season, as well as there was a new offensive scheme in place which takes a year to get used to, as well as there was a QB change in the middle of the season. I think all of those had more to do with Moss' numbers being down in 2006 than the perception that ARE wasn't gameplanned for by opposing teams.





You yourself said he wasn't "used" the same way that Pitt used him, not that he wasn't as productive while being used in the same ways...which would mean that in your eyes the only way he would be considered a good signing is if he was used in the same way. I merely pointed out that ARE can (and should) still be considered a good signing regardless of whether or not he was used the exact same way in Washington as in Pittsburgh.


solid point on your end. I am torn between him being a possible threat and a possible bust. The Cowboys fan in me likes to look at the numbers and :laugh: but the football fan in me tries to be more objective and see it for what it is.

I guess some of you made some good points and made this debate woirth while.

My honest (after further review) take:

AA- Bust...big time
Carter- turned it on late and fans should have reason to be happy with him coming back.
ARE-not your typical #2 WR....a very solid PR guy, yet he had a 8.8 yard average......I guess giving that another year is a good call.
lloyd- just horrid. A bad WR that came in without a deal, was givin a huge deal.....and sucked it up. And was a bad locker room guy ontop of it. and all for a 4th and 3rd round pick.
Duckett- I just never understood why.....Big time waste of a good 3rd round pick. (although you kept him from being in Philly :D)

All in all not a great 2005, but not a total disaster either.

[Califan007]

Then we have Archuleta. I still don't get why this team had to release Clark in the first place. No he wasn't the best out there but he did get the job done and always laid it on the line.
I don't think the Skins "had" to release Clark, or that they even wanted to... think they wanted to keep him, but not at the expense he was demanding (either in terms of salary or in terms of playing time). I also think the Archuletta signing maaaaaaay have been influenced by Taylor's court troubles, but that's just speculation (and has a few logic holes as well)...

[BWareofDWare94]

I don't think the Skins "had" to release Clark, or that they even wanted to... think they wanted to keep him, but not at the expense he was demanding (either in terms of salary or in terms of playing time). I also think the Archuletta signing maaaaaaay have been influenced by Taylor's court troubles, but that's just speculation (and has a few logic holes as well)...


thats definitly speculation. I honestly do not think that the Organization made a player personnel decision on what "may happen" in the Taylor case...I think they were behind him all the way and never for a second thought he was guilty........well thought he would be "found guilty"...........I have heard some fans that i talk to say the same thing, but i dont buy it.

[Califan007]

thats definitly speculation. I honestly do not think that the Organization made a player personnel decision on what "may happen" in the Taylor case...I think they were behind him all the way and never for a second thought he was guilty........well thought he would be "found guilty"...........I have heard some fans that i talk to say the same thing, but i dont buy it.
Yeah, I don't think I buy it, either...but then again, the possibility of not having Portis was supposedly the reason for giving up so much to aquire Duckett. So who knows, this FO may make foolish moves when they're nervous about things concerning their top players...

[pointyfootball]

Since TR1 does not allow us (other fans) to bring up the Redskins in threads realated to other teams (Boys, Eagles and Giants), I thought i'd start a new one.

I find it amusing that the one fan you'd like to debate on this subject refused to post on the topic.

I'll give my honest assessment of the Eagles FA acquisitions from year ago:

Jeff Garcia: A+ Obvious grade

Darren Howard: D- Maybe it's due to injuries, age, no DT help, Kearse being gone, whatever. No excuses, he wasn't worth the money the Eagles paid him last season. Inconsistent, mostly bad. And now they're stuck with an older DE who has a huge contract.

Matt Schobel: C- Picked it up a little in the 2nd half of the season, but doesn't seem to have the surest of hands.

Shawn Barber: C-/D Injured fairly often, definitely didn't have what he had the first time he was in Philly.

Jabar Gaffney: F Although I'm sure the Patriots wouldn't agree.

Jon Runyan: A Had a very good year, especially later in the season with his run-blocking, and late hits down the field. :) I'm a big runyan fan.

Dirk Johnson: C- His punting has been inconsistent and less than spectacular

Quintin Mikell: B Great special teamer

Reno Mahe: I have no clue how to grade this one. He performed up to his expectations, let's just say that.

Hank Baskett: B Just based on the few chances he had, he seemed to do pretty well.



Just my take on the Eagles FAs last year. Some of them were just resigned so they were never really out there on the market, but figured I'd include them b/c they were part of the overall class.

PF

[Westbrook36]

You will never get tr1 to post his feelings on anything Redskins.

[Enter Apotheosis]

Why is talking about the Skins FA moves an unnecessary thread? Its ok to speak of all the FA moves in regards to all the other NFCE teams...and once again, I am not going into the stadium because its not a place for me. I want to talk about the NFL in the ATNFL section....and that includes talking about the Skins.

You do know that the Stadium exists solely for Redskins threads and that ATN is for speculation on the rest of the league, right? Honestly, this thread should be moved to the Stadium... but it would just contribute to the mess and be incredibly redundant.

I'm not sure why you don't atleast check the first post of certain Stadium threads... at the very least its the best football-related place to post where bubba and tr1 go completely unnoticed more often than not.

[BWareofDWare94]

I've explained it enough; I am not interested in the stadium forum. I am here in the ATNFL, to speak of football. The Redskins are a part of football discussions. The ATNFL is used by TR1 and Bubba to talk about other teams but not let any discussions of their own team take place. Its always "take it to the stadium"...Cant the questions just be answered and debated without crying foul. I for one would like to talk Redskins football with them and others like the ones in this thread, but some choose to hide behind the fact that they are only interested in blasting The Eagles, Giants and Cowboys. they take no position on what the Skins do, but yet they claim not to be "homers" and the best of all as seen in a Saints fan sig....by Bubba "my opinions are always unbiased as possible."...in which I happen to find as one of the funniest things ever written in the ES forum.

[Westbrook36]

You do know that the Stadium exists solely for Redskins threads and that ATN is for speculation on the rest of the league, right? Honestly, this thread should be moved to the Stadium... but it would just contribute to the mess and be incredibly redundant.

I'm not sure why you don't atleast check the first post of certain Stadium threads... at the very least its the best football-related place to post where bubba and tr1 go completely unnoticed more often than not.

This is the deal. There is a core group of around 40 posters in Around the NFL. We all know each other. 90 percent of us are fans of the Skins, Eagles, Giants, or Cowboys.

In ATNFL, it is commonplace to mindlessly bash the Giants, Eagles or Cowboys; normally by a select few individuals.

Inevitably, the Skins will be brought up. If anything, it is moreso to see how anyone can think the Skins are doing the right thing when they seemingly think every other team in the NFC East is doing the wrong thing all the time.

At that point, we are normally told to talk about the Skins in the stadium. A true sign of a coward, in my opinion. People act like ES is going to disintegrate if the very word Redskins is ever uttered in ATN.

We all know we will never track down certain posters in the vast forum which is the Stadium. This leads to ATN to become a place where people can post crap with zero accountability. That is not right; most normal people understand this.

The day I can talk the Skins with tr1 in the Stadium, I'll be all for it. I'm not holding my breath.

[Fred Jones]

I find it amusing that the one fan you'd like to debate on this subject refused to post on the topic.

I'll give my honest assessment of the Eagles FA acquisitions from year ago:

Jeff Garcia: A+ Obvious grade

Darren Howard: D- Maybe it's due to injuries, age, no DT help, Kearse being gone, whatever. No excuses, he wasn't worth the money the Eagles paid him last season. Inconsistent, mostly bad. And now they're stuck with an older DE who has a huge contract.

Matt Schobel: C- Picked it up a little in the 2nd half of the season, but doesn't seem to have the surest of hands.

Shawn Barber: C-/D Injured fairly often, definitely didn't have what he had the first time he was in Philly.

Jabar Gaffney: F Although I'm sure the Patriots wouldn't agree.

Jon Runyan: A Had a very good year, especially later in the season with his run-blocking, and late hits down the field. :) I'm a big runyan fan.

Dirk Johnson: C- His punting has been inconsistent and less than spectacular

Quintin Mikell: B Great special teamer

Reno Mahe: I have no clue how to grade this one. He performed up to his expectations, let's just say that.

Hank Baskett: B Just based on the few chances he had, he seemed to do pretty well.


Just my take on the Eagles FAs last year. Some of them were just resigned so they were never really out there on the market, but figured I'd include them b/c they were part of the overall class.

PF

That is a fair player assesment. To be picky I think Garcia gets an A. A+ is reserved for further advancement in the playoffs.

I was mad last year that Runyan settled for less money and came back to the birds. The Bird FO let him go and got lucky to bring him back. He was a good tackle for the money the birds paid him and will continue to do so until age catches up with him. I wish he had gone to the Jets and left a hole on the right side of the line.

[pointyfootball]

That is a fair player assesment. To be picky I think Garcia gets an A. A+ is reserved for further advancement in the playoffs.

Man, you're like my college calc prof! Seriously, I based my grades on pre-season expectations for them. Howard was expected to be a force on the other side of Kearse and he was nowhere even close to that more than 2-4 games out of the season. Reno Mahe should probably be given an A as well based on the fact he was paid minimally and expected to be a safe punt returner and that's it. He did exactly that.

As to Garcia, only reason I gave him highest grade possible, is that he helped lead the team much further than ANYONE (Eagles fans included) thought he would, especially considering the defense was lackluster for much of the season. But otherwise, you are probably right.

[KINGPAULI]

That is a fair player assesment. To be picky I think Garcia gets an A. A+ is reserved for further advancement in the playoffs.

I was mad last year that Runyan settled for less money and came back to the birds. The Bird FO let him go and got lucky to bring him back. He was a good tackle for the money the birds paid him and will continue to do so until age catches up with him. I wish he had gone to the Jets and left a hole on the right side of the line.

When he does retire thats what we have Justice and Herramans for.

[BWareofDWare94]

This is the deal. There is a core group of around 40 posters in Around the NFL. We all know each other. 90 percent of us are fans of the Skins, Eagles, Giants, or Cowboys.

In ATNFL, it is commonplace to mindlessly bash the Giants, Eagles or Cowboys; normally by a select few individuals.

Inevitably, the Skins will be brought up. If anything, it is moreso to see how anyone can think the Skins are doing the right thing when they seemingly think every other team in the NFC East is doing the wrong thing all the time.

At that point, we are normally told to talk about the Skins in the stadium. A true sign of a coward, in my opinion. People act like ES is going to disintegrate if the very word Redskins is ever uttered in ATN.

We all know we will never track down certain posters in the vast forum which is the Stadium. This leads to ATN to become a place where people can post crap with zero accountability. That is not right; most normal people understand this.

The day I can talk the Skins with tr1 in the Stadium, I'll be all for it. I'm not holding my breath.

Westy gets my point. Great post. This is exactly how i feel, but i described it a tad different in my post, however the truth is, I would love to talk football about all the NFCE teams evenly in the ATNFL....not just my own team being bashed....ect...and then next line coming is the other famus words of ES...have you noticed the colors.....this is a Redskins forum and if you dont like it, you do not have to be here...Well i do like it, and i do enjoy almost all the members that frequent the ATNFL.

[BWareofDWare94]

I find it amusing that the one fan you'd like to debate on this subject refused to post on the topic.

I'll give my honest assessment of the Eagles FA acquisitions from year ago:

Jeff Garcia: A+ Obvious grade

Darren Howard: D- Maybe it's due to injuries, age, no DT help, Kearse being gone, whatever. No excuses, he wasn't worth the money the Eagles paid him last season. Inconsistent, mostly bad. And now they're stuck with an older DE who has a huge contract.

Matt Schobel: C- Picked it up a little in the 2nd half of the season, but doesn't seem to have the surest of hands.

Shawn Barber: C-/D Injured fairly often, definitely didn't have what he had the first time he was in Philly.

Jabar Gaffney: F Although I'm sure the Patriots wouldn't agree.

Jon Runyan: A Had a very good year, especially later in the season with his run-blocking, and late hits down the field. :) I'm a big runyan fan.

Dirk Johnson: C- His punting has been inconsistent and less than spectacular

Quintin Mikell: B Great special teamer

Reno Mahe: I have no clue how to grade this one. He performed up to his expectations, let's just say that.

Hank Baskett: B Just based on the few chances he had, he seemed to do pretty well.



Just my take on the Eagles FAs last year. Some of them were just resigned so they were never really out there on the market, but figured I'd include them b/c they were part of the overall class.

PF

thats fair...and its a good assesment of the Eagles FA of 05. And I agree with the A+ for Garcia...as much as i gave Romo his props for getting it done and doing well enough in his 10 games for the pro-bowl...I have to be fair Garcia for the most part out played Romo and was the best QB in the NFCE this year. He did a great job for them.

[HapHaszard]

I've never noticed where TR1 has stopped you from posting anything, you seem to hold your own with him, but if he has, then I would suspect your easily intimidated.

[jrockster21]

This is the deal. There is a core group of around 40 posters in Around the NFL. We all know each other. 90 percent of us are fans of the Skins, Eagles, Giants, or Cowboys.

In ATNFL, it is commonplace to mindlessly bash the Giants, Eagles or Cowboys; normally by a select few individuals.


EA is the internets police. He's the guy that claims everyone takes this site too seriously, then goes around spouting his opinion about people breaking the rules. :laugh:

[BWareofDWare94]

I've never noticed where TR1 has stopped you from posting anything, you seem to hold your own with him, but if he has, then I would suspect your easily intimidated.


No. No. No....never has he "stopped me"...from posting, nor intimidated me....matter of fact, i really feel that i kill him in all the debates that we have had. Bubba posses a bit of a threat as far as debating, because he is very knowledgable about football and the little thing in the game that make winning important...ect

But TR1 cant touch me. He just never has been able to. But what i was saying is, no matter what i say about Washington its "take it to the Stadium" or This is not about the Skins its about the Poke or Eagles or Giants"....Its annoying, but most definitly not intimidating......pfffft, TR1 is never a challenge to me when it comes to debating...because i can be honest and objective, which puts me 2 up on him right off the break!

[Passizle]

why? What did he do to make you say that? Just asking.

Carter deal is fine by me, but "give AA and Lloyd another shot"...I just dont get it.....You had to see enough out of those two to admit it was a bad FA deal for both....

Not to steer in another direction, what do you think of your free agent bust in Owens? The guy probably dropped more passes than he caught. He also missed some clutch catches that cost them games... week 9 comes to mind... LOL!

The ARE thing was a good move IMO, but we did pay him too much for what we saw last year. I think he was a legitimate threat to bring one to the house on every punt return (when he got the chance that is)

I think what alot of people do not realize is that all of these players were great on their respective teams. But when you try to bring in 5 FAs from 5 different systems, and try to re-invent the wheel with your own system (ala Saunders) and expect to do better than .500, you are going to be in for a long season. The Skins looked great on paper, but we all saw what happened. But I digress...

To call any of our FA aquisitions busts at this time is a complete waste. It has only been 1 season. Should we call Leinhart a bust after one season? I think not. Did we overpay? Yes. Busts? Lets see what happens with some continuity (finally) for next season. That is all.

[pointyfootball]

I've never noticed where TR1 has stopped you from posting anything, you seem to hold your own with him, but if he has, then I would suspect your easily intimidated.

I'll make a slight change to reflect my stance on it:


"...easily irritated"

Next time I'm intimidated over the internet will be the first.:D

[BWareofDWare94]

Not to steer in another direction, what do you think of your free agent bust in Owens? The guy probably dropped more passes than he caught. He also missed some clutch catches that cost them games... week 9 comes to mind... LOL!

The ARE thing was a good move IMO, but we did pay him too much for what we saw last year. I think he was a legitimate threat to bring one to the house on every punt return (when he got the chance that is)

I think what alot of people do not realize is that all of these players were great on their respective teams. But when you try to bring in 5 FAs from 5 different systems, and try to re-invent the wheel with your own system (ala Saunders) and expect to do better than .500, you are going to be in for a long season. The Skins looked great on paper, but we all saw what happened. But I digress...

To call any of our FA aquisitions busts at this time is a complete waste. It has only been 1 season. Should we call Leinhart a bust after one season? I think not. Did we overpay? Yes. Busts? Lets see what happens with some continuity (finally) for next season. That is all.


Please....:laugh: So T.O dropped 86 passes huh? Riiight!

I am not a TO fan and am not in favor of his sideline antics, and i hope and pray he dosn't screw this team up. His past tells me i will be dissapointed, BUT to call him a bust on the feild is just not being honest. He led the NFL with 13 TD catches had 85 Rec. for just over 1300 yards....Did he drop passes YES....but come on man he didnt drop more then he caught.....and he did drop a pass vs Washington that would have put us ontop for the moment...no gaurantee that we would have held it.....and the man to blame for our loss most certainly is not Owens, he didnt wif on a block during a chip shot game winner.

[tr1]

This thread really belongs in the Stadium.

Please try not to clutter ATN with this stuff.

And...good luck in the stadium...

[Westbrook36]

I don't have the guts to discuss our teams in an open setting. I might do a hit and run in the Stadium; but that's only because of the immense homefield advantage I'd have in any matter we'd discuss. I'm basically a coward.

[BWareofDWare94]

This thread really belongs in the Stadium.

Please try not to clutter ATN with this stuff.

And...good luck in the stadium...


Does anyone actually read anymore? I made my point so many times, yet its the same thing over and over and OVER again.

TR1, do me a favor and read my post...please, it will clear it up for you, i promise you it will.

Cant we just discuss things in the ATNFL about all the teams, Skins included.........

[MisterPinstripe]

Not to steer in another direction, what do you think of your free agent bust in Owens? The guy probably dropped more passes than he caught. He also missed some clutch catches that cost them games... week 9 comes to mind... LOL!



Ummm... I HATE T.O. But how in the world can you call him a bust??? :laugh::laugh::laugh: I despise the man, but there is no way you can call a guy that had like 1300 yards and like 13 tds a bust because he dropped a lot of passes...:doh:

[#98QBKiller]

Since TR1 does not allow us (other fans) to bring up the Redskins in threads realated to other teams (Boys, Eagles and Giants), I thought i'd start a new one.

Can all those Skin fans that are honest, admit to any of the FA signings/trades of 05 (AA, ARE, Lloydd and Duckett) were bad? Seriously you cant all be the same as TR1 and Bubba, someone has to be able to say....hey maybe AA for all that money was a bad move...or you know what for what ARE did, our FO may have over spent....or what the heck was our FO thinking giving up those picks for Duckett and/or Lloyd.......I left Carter out cause i think for the money you guys spent on him, he did enough late in the season to be a good deal for the team.



Have you not been reading any post in The Stadium? That's all I read over there.

[Passizle]

Ummm... I HATE T.O. But how in the world can you call him a bust??? :laugh::laugh::laugh: I despise the man, but there is no way you can call a guy that had like 1300 yards and like 13 tds a bust because he dropped a lot of passes...:doh:

Ok... so I was exagerating a little. ;)

To be honest, I have not followed TO stats for this year. 1108 yds and 13 TDs is good. I still cant call AA, ARE, Carter and Lloyd busts yet. But I do think that Lloyd is going to be one. I would like to put him on the trading block and/or pick up Bennett or Toomer. We need a bigger "possesion" receiver.

[BWareofDWare94]

Have you not been reading any post in The Stadium? That's all I read over there.



:stupid:

:doh: i give up....its worthless trying to make a point when noone READS ANYTHING!!!!

[MisterPinstripe]

Ok... so I was exagerating a little. ;)

To be honest, I have not followed TO stats for this year. 1108 yds and 13 TDs is good. I still cant call AA, ARE, Carter and Lloyd busts yet. But I do think that Lloyd is going to be one. I would like to put him on the trading block and/or pick up Bennett or Toomer. We need a bigger "possesion" receiver.

In Carters last five games where he started to get comfortable, he had 27 tackles and 4 sacks. Carter is not a bust. We can be excited about him. ARE is not a bust either. We did overpay for him, but I think this next year will be better then this last year as well. He will be great for us and I am very glad we got him even if we did overpay. The whole D played bad so I cant call AA a bust. He was at least decent before he came here so there was obviously something wrong with how he was being used or somthing. I say give him another year to see what he can do. I would not label Lloyd a bust yet either. New offense, Brunell for most of the year was throwing to him, and then switching up QBs on him with different arms and Campbells first starts...etc... Give Lloyd another year as well. He did pretty well in San Fran so I find it hard to believe he already sucks.

:stupid:

:doh: i give up....its worthless trying to make a point when noone READS ANYTHING!!!!

:laugh::laugh:

[BWareofDWare94]

Ok... so I was exagerating a little. ;)

To be honest, I have not followed TO stats for this year. 1108 yds and 13 TDs is good. I still cant call AA, ARE, Carter and Lloyd busts yet. But I do think that Lloyd is going to be one. I would like to put him on the trading block and/or pick up Bennett or Toomer. We need a bigger "possesion" receiver.

yes its "good",

Yep thats what it is...but on the other hand 78 rec. 1155 yds and 6TD's is awesome.

PS: Thats combimned stats of Lloyd and Moss:laugh::laugh:

[MisterPinstripe]

yes its "good",

Yep thats what it is...but on the other hand 78 rec. 1155 yds and 6TD's is awesome.

PS: Thats combimned stats of Lloyd and Moss:laugh::laugh:

Moss was injured for a couple games, got all the TDs listed, got no help from Lloyd to take pressure of as he was supposed to get, Brunell would not throw it deep, I think when Campbell finally came in Moss was out for two games, the offense was learning a new offense.... etc...

[BWareofDWare94]

Moss was injured for a couple games, got all the TDs listed, got no help from Lloyd to take pressure of as he was supposed to get, Brunell would not throw it deep, I think when Campbell finally came in Moss was out for two games, the offense was learning a new offense.... etc...


And TO wasnt injured......and we he had the statue himself for 6 games then a brand new starter for 10. Teams go through things each and every year, its just an excuse.

Dallas will have a new Off. next year another bad line and 2 average RB's as well as a way over rated QB....and TO will still go 85-1100 and 10 TD's at least..............

[MisterPinstripe]

And TO wasnt injured......and we he had the statue himself for 6 games then a brand new starter for 10. Teams go through things each and every year, its just an excuse.

Dallas will have a new Off. next year another bad line and 2 average RB's as well as a way over rated QB....and TO will still go 85-1100 and 10 TD's at least..............

Except players that have been in Saunders offenses say that it takes at least a year to learn.

And I am not arguing agianst T.O. being an elite reciever.

Also, at least the statue had an arm and could throw it downfield.
And Romo had been in the same system for 4 years.

[BWareofDWare94]

Except players that have been in Saunders offenses say that it takes at least a year to learn.

And I am not arguing agianst T.O. being an elite reciever.

Also, at least the statue had an arm and could throw it downfield.
And Romo had been in the same system for 4 years.

It will never stop.....Its Sauders system or Marks arm....or something else, its never. We paid too much for a FA reciever thats not that good.


EDIT: and same system or not Romo lost Sean Payton, and that should account for alot. He rean the off. a little different then Parcells, so there was some things for the Dallas Off. to learn....

[jrockster21]

:stupid:

:doh: i give up....its worthless trying to make a point when noone READS ANYTHING!!!!


Its a wide-spread pandemic on ES called "Stadiumitis." All the morons in that forum post the same things over and over without reading the entire thread - this in turn increases the length exponentially, and you can no longer read the entire thread. Therefore you naturally begin to skip posts and only skim others...its a vicious cycle. :laugh:

[jrockster21]

It will never stop.....Its Sauders system or Marks arm....or something else, its never. We paid too much for a FA reciever thats not that good.

EDIT: and same system or not Romo lost Sean Payton, and that should account for alot. He rean the off. a little different then Parcells, so there was some things for the Dallas Off. to learn....


Well, I can speak from the experience of watching two Mark Brunell starts this season - BLloyd was wide open deep several times, but Marky Mark never even looked his way. You can see these things live, but on TV, its not that apparent. But Lloyd routinely had a couple steps on his man on deep patterns; Brunell was either locked in on Moss, or too shaky in the pocket and quick to throw it away/dump the ball off.

If Mark had looked to Lloyd more often early in the season, he would have never lost his job to Campbell, and we'd have won a few more games. :2cents:

[MisterPinstripe]

It will never stop.....Its Sauders system or Marks arm....or something else, its never. We paid too much for a FA reciever thats not that good.


EDIT: and same system or not Romo lost Sean Payton, and that should account for alot. He rean the off. a little different then Parcells, so there was some things for the Dallas Off. to learn....

I agree we paid too much for Lloyd and ARE, but ARE I am glad we have and Lloyd should at least be an acceptable number 2 receiver but I want to give him another year. I do agree we overpaid for those guys, But Moss is still Moss. If after this upcoming year there is the same problem, I will admit that you are right. Because at the start of this season everyone will be healthy, will have had a year to learn the system, and Campbell will have learned the system and been getting reps with the first team. All in all though, our offense did not do too terribly. If our defense had play even average we would have won at least three more games, and maybe more.

[Birdlives]

Best FA pickup in the NFC East,

TO, the haters can hate, but he put up good numbers and certainly helped the development of Romo. We'll see how long the love can last. The only problem was the move was supposed to put the boys in SB contention, not just elevate them to first round playoff fodder.

Worst FA pickup,

Mike Vanderjagt, didnt even last the whole season before being replaced.

Other bad moves,

Darren Howard
Shawn Barber
Lavar Arrington
Brandon Short
Marcus Coleman

The Redskins seem to have missed on Lloyd and Arch, but I think ARE and Carter were good pickups. Injuries and overall poor play throughout the team cost these guys alot. I think next year you might see imrpovement as they get more comfortable systematically. As for Lloyd and Arch, the Skins are stuck with them for now. If they can improve these moves might be considered okay, but never great moves.

It seems to me that all four NFC East team had their share of misses last year, so focusing on Arch, ARE, and Lloyd seems a bit like bashing to many Skins fans. Not surprising that you'd get alot of flack from the Skins fans on a Skins message board.

[BWareofDWare94]

Best FA pickup in the NFC East,

TO, the haters can hate, but he put up good numbers and certainly helped the development of Romo. We'll see how long the love can last. The only problem was the move was supposed to put the boys in SB contention, not just elevate them to first round playoff fodder.

Worst FA pickup,

Mike Vanderjagt, didnt even last the whole season before being replaced.

Other bad moves,

Darren Howard
Shawn Barber
Lavar Arrington
Brandon Short
Marcus Coleman

The Redskins seem to have missed on Lloyd and Arch, but I think ARE and Carter were good pickups. Injuries and overall poor play throughout the team cost these guys alot. I think next year you might see imrpovement as they get more comfortable systematically. As for Lloyd and Arch, the Skins are stuck with them for now. If they can improve these moves might be considered okay, but never great moves.

It seems to me that all four NFC East team had their share of misses last year, so focusing on Arch, ARE, and Lloyd seems a bit like bashing to many Skins fans. Not surprising that you'd get alot of flack from the Skins fans on a Skins message board.


This is about the Redskins, not the rest of The NFCE, if you cant stick with the topic of the thread then don;t even respond......:silly: thats my TR1 impression.

Now i agree with you on Vandy, but didnt Dallas do the right thing by cutting him? But nonetheless, it turned out to be the number one worst FA pick up in the NFCE...that I agree with. But Marcus Coleman? He was vet min. no biggie there.

Giants had incintives built all over LA's cointract, so that wasn't a bad FA pick up at all....things that do not cost you much cant be that bad....The NFL is a buisiness and in all buisiness's we have to take chance, more then likley more will be unsuccesfull then succesfull

[BigRay]

Since TR1 does not allow us (other fans) to bring up the Redskins in threads realated to other teams (Boys, Eagles and Giants), I thought i'd start a new one.

Can all those Skin fans that are honest, admit to any of the FA signings/trades of 05 (AA, ARE, Lloydd and Duckett) were bad? Seriously you cant all be the same as TR1 and Bubba, someone has to be able to say....hey maybe AA for all that money was a bad move...or you know what for what ARE did, our FO may have over spent....or what the heck was our FO thinking giving up those picks for Duckett and/or Lloyd.......I left Carter out cause i think for the money you guys spent on him, he did enough late in the season to be a good deal for the team.


Andre Carter finally putting together late season.. I thought this was a waste of money but towards the end he show some promise hope he picks up where he left off. Antwaan Randle El was not a bad move actually it was the best pick up of all the free agent pick ups. I totally agree with you on AA and Brandon Lloyd simply I just do not like B.Lloyd so I thought that was a bad move from the jump.

The Duckett trade is still the most puzzling. But I am happy with Randle El and what I have seen from Carter late in season.

[OWUeagleMD]

Giants had incintives built all over LA's cointract, so that wasn't a bad FA pick up at all....things that do not cost you much cant be that bad....The NFL is a buisiness and in all buisiness's we have to take chance, more then likley more will be unsuccesfull then succesfull

But his very presence cost them the opportunity to play a potentially better player.

[chrisavery72]

Look if you got a personal beef with Tr1 then yall can have a PM war or something....lol
Now back to the thread.

1. ARE. too much money for a guy I think is a hybrid Number 2. But he brings alot to the table and if used right Defenses has to keep an eye on him. Grade:B-

2 Lloyd: I like the guy and not being apart of the Mark/Moss love fest pissed him off. But once again too much for him. I'll give him one one year with Jason. Grade: D

3. Carter. I didnt have a problem with what they gave him. and Im glad they let him be himself the 2nd half of the season. Grade C-

4. AA. LMFAO!!! Grade: F-

[BWareofDWare94]

But his very presence cost them the opportunity to play a potentially better player.


maybe, but they still had to take a chance....Its all about taking a chance, Jerry Jones once took a chance in trading away a possible elite RB in the name of Hershel Walker....that if went the other way (if Dallas dosnt win SB's and Walker goes on to be one of the all time best)...then hew would have looked a fool. But it worked out.

He fired Tom Landry for goodness sakes, you dont thingk that was a big risk, my point is, they all do it...they all take chances, thats why they are who they are........


Owners/GM's take chances and deal with it, Snyder just doesnt know football form Christmas lights so he looks a fool much nore often then others.

[Birdlives]

This is about the Redskins, not the rest of The NFCE, if you cant stick with the topic of the thread then don;t even respond......:silly: thats my TR1 impression.

Now i agree with you on Vandy, but didnt Dallas do the right thing by cutting him? But nonetheless, it turned out to be the number one worst FA pick up in the NFCE...that I agree with. But Marcus Coleman? He was vet min. no biggie there.

Giants had incintives built all over LA's cointract, so that wasn't a bad FA pick up at all....things that do not cost you much cant be that bad....The NFL is a buisiness and in all buisiness's we have to take chance, more then likley more will be unsuccesfull then succesfull

Bad impression since you yourself said this about all of the NFCE.

As for the money part, does that really matter? If you go into the season under the cap, you dont get a rebate. You can spend up to that much, end of story. Others might argue that this keeps the team from picking up other players that they might need, but it really doesn't. The Skins view the cap the way it should be viewed, as a line moving forward to infinity. As long as you make the right moves, a team can get under the cap every year and sign new players. Saving money under the cap never made sense to me.

As for your comments about Coleman, as well as other comments about value, yes it was a league minimum contract, but we're talking about production. What they make isn't really relevant to that. Either a player produces or he doesn't. Didnt Coleman get suspended? What they make doesnt really matter in the end. If a player exceeds expectations on a low salary more power to him, he got underpaid. Similarly, if a player underperforms, they are overpaid. BFD if you ask me.

No NFL team is hurting for cash. At least Snyder pays the players. What do other teams with bucket loads of cash who dont pay players do with that money? They aint giving it back to the fans. People who complain about how much the Skins spend on players are happier that the even wealthier team owners are keeping the cash for themselves I guess. Or maybe, just maybe, they're jealous? I cant believe any cowboys fan is worried that poor Jerry Jones or Jeffrey Lurie is strapped for moolah.

I never understood the people who post in here, or follow the NFL for that matter, and whine about money matters. You pay the NFL, that's what you get. You dont like it, follow the AFL.

[BWareofDWare94]

Bad impression since you yourself said this about all of the NFCE.

As for the money part, does that really matter? If you go into the season under the cap, you dont get a rebate. You can spend up to that much, end of story. Others might argue that this keeps the team from picking up other players that they might need, but it really doesn't. The Skins view the cap the way it should be viewed, as a line moving forward to infinity. As long as you make the right moves, a team can get under the cap every year and sign new players. Saving money under the cap never made sense to me.

As for your comments about Coleman, as well as other comments about value, yes it was a league minimum contract, but we're talking about production. What they make isn't really relevant to that. Either a player produces or he doesn't. Didnt Coleman get suspended? What they make doesnt really matter in the end. If a player exceeds expectations on a low salary more power to him, he got underpaid. Similarly, if a player underperforms, they are overpaid. BFD if you ask me.

No NFL team is hurting for cash. At least Snyder pays the players. What do other teams with bucket loads of cash who dont pay players do with that money? They aint giving it back to the fans. People who complain about how much the Skins spend on players are happier that the even wealthier team owners are keeping the cash for themselves I guess. Or maybe, just maybe, they're jealous? I cant believe any cowboys fan is worried that poor Jerry Jones or Jeffrey Lurie is strapped for moolah.

I never understood the people who post in here, or follow the NFL for that matter, and whine about money matters. You pay the NFL, that's what you get. You dont like it, follow the AFL.

well if its strickly production then all the Skins FA are bust. Not one FA Carter included produced on the field for the season.


BTW my original thread subject is about the Skins FA...thats why i made the comment........but it was in good fun, so its all good.

[Birdlives]

well if its strickly production then all the Skins FA are bust. Not one FA Carter included produced on the field for the season.


BTW my original thread subject is about the Skins FA...thats why i made the comment........but it was in good fun, so its all good.



No its not. Its about talking about other teams AND the Skins......and I am not bashing them, just trying to get honest opinions from the members in ATNFL that i talk with.....

[Birdlives]

well if its strickly production then all the Skins FA are bust. Not one FA Carter included produced on the field for the season.

Ummm, no they're not. Carter was a good starting DE and ARE was a good, albeit not great WR who upgraded our punting unit significantly. They produced. They also played all season long, which is more than can be said for:

Shawn Barber
Marcus Coleman
Lavar Arrington
Donte Stallworth
Mike Vanderjagt

So really, What's your definition of a FA bust? Do they have to make the probowl or they suck?

[jrockster21]

Best FA pickup in the NFC East,

TO, the haters can hate, but he put up good numbers and certainly helped the development of Romo. We'll see how long the love can last. The only problem was the move was supposed to put the boys in SB contention, not just elevate them to first round playoff fodder.


Yeah he was the best! Helped the Skins beat Dallas at home!! :cheers:

[kevin11]

Lloyd and AA sucked, same for fauria. ARE did fine and if Carter can keep that production up that we had in the last 6 games, then he can make the pro bowl easly.

[skinsfan07]

Lloyd and AA sucked, same for fauria. ARE did fine and if Carter can keep that production up that we had in the last 6 games, then he can make the pro bowl easly.

I think Lloyd will step it up next year, when Cp is back. Just a hunch.

[MisterPinstripe]

I think Lloyd will step it up next year, when Cp is back. Just a hunch.

I am excited. But then again, I am excited every year.

[bedlamVR]

I actually thought Suisham was a decent pick up mid way through the season :P

But if you want to open this up to the rest of the NFCE I think it was not a good year at all to be a FA in the East . Owens was a circus freek all year and just did not seem the same player...maybe it was a Parcells thing.

I would say the biggest impact FA (except he was a trade) was Stallworth - Between him and my late season pick up of Ladell Betts propelled my fantasy team ...ermm anyway...

Other than that I would say Garcia was the most influential pick. ...

The worst ... considering the hype some (WB36) people were giving him..ha to be Jabbar Gaffny (sp?) ...most other FA actually made it through TC.