FOX: 5 worst FA signings so far

[bubba9497]

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/adamschein/2007/03/05/Top_5_questionable_free_agents




click link for full article






I already picked the best deals of the free-agency period, now it's time for the bad deals.

Here are five I question:

1. Leonard Davis to Dallas – This is the worst move of the offseason thus far. Signing the underachieving and underwhelming tackle to a 7-year, $49.6 million deal, with $18.75 million in guaranteed money, is beyond comprehension. Honestly – did he do anything in Arizona? And when new coaches, offensive line guru Russ Grimm and head coach Ken Whisenhunt, study the film and don't make you an offer to stay in Arizona, where they are desperate to talent upgrades on the line, well, that tells you everything about everything.

2. Ashley Lelie to San Francisco – Go ask a Bronco player or coach about Lelie off the record. Or a Falcon. The expression 'tissue paper soft' might be used.

3. Drew Bennett to St. Louis – $4.5 million a year for a No. 3 receiver with a chronic case of the yips? I thought the money could be better spent by the Rams.

4. Dennis Northcutt to Jacksonville – I was looking for something a bit more special at the receiver position from the Jaguars. Northcutt, who was an up and down Brown, won't stand out in that receiver core and help Byron Leftwich.

5. Ovie Mughelli to Atlanta – Did the Falcons really pay all that money for a fullback??

[kevinklein]

Haha. "Tissue-paper soft"

[One Shot]

Good to know that the Redskins aren't on the list.

[tr1]

Davis number one? Davis?

Wait, I thought he's the next all-pro guard who, despite six years in the league, just needs a bit more maturing!

The guy is a beast. :laugh:

That's what my puke pals at ES have been telling me...

[bubba9497]

here's SI's list of 5 Questionable :jerk:





http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_blogs/nfl/huddle_up/2006/2007/03/questionable-free-agent-signings.html






Questionable free-agent signings



Before you get too excited about the money flying around right now, look at how the Colts built their Super Bowl team. They drafted or signed as undrafted free agents 21 of 22 positional starters, and picked up the other one, Anthony McFarland, at last year's trade deadline.

They did sign kicker Adam Vinatieri last year, but you get my point. The financial structure of the NFL has made the pendulum swing toward drafting to build a champion instead of free agency. Good teams are vigilant about keeping their best players so they don't have to overpay in the open market. And if they draft well for their system, they can overcome free-agency losses.

With the bump in salary cap, this market was particularly overvalued and it's easy to spot the questionable deals, even though some of them look bigger on paper then they are in reality.

Here are my top five red-flag signings:

Leonard Davis, OT/OG, Cowboys: It seems weird the Cowboys would give him so much money – an $18 million signing bonus – and they're not even sure if he'll play guard or tackle.

Nate Clements, CB, 49ers: Clements' eight-year, $80 million deal is believed to be the richest for a defensive player in NFL history. Does that mean Clements is the best defensive player ever?

Derrick Dockery, G, Bills/Eric Steinbach, G, Browns: I'll be the first to admit I can not evaluate offensive guard play, but I do know the Vikings' acquisition of guard Steve Hutchinson for record money barely improved their rushing offense. I doubt Dockery and Steinbach will have a great impact either.

Ahman Green, RB, Texans: Green reportedly got more money from the Texans (four years, $23 million) then he was even looking for. Green was a great player at one point, but 30-year-old running backs with injury histories don't have a lot of value in today's NFL.

Dewayne White, DE, Lions: I'm willing to assume this a bad signing just because we're talking about the Lions. Anyone care to argue with that logic?

Let me know who you think was overpaid and who actually deserved a big payday.

[tr1]

^^^ Number one again?!??

[tr1]

Bubba, did you know Davis is the HIGHEST PAID PUKE EVER?

I found it startling that a guard would get paid more than TO...what do you think TO thinks?

[Fred Jones]

Bubba, did you know Davis is the HIGHEST PAID PUKE EVER?

I found it startling that a guard would get paid more than TO...what do you think TO thinks?

What do you think their remaining offensive linemen Columbo (whatever his name is) thinks about the pukes offering him peanuts to come back? He should be asking and expecting the big bling from them.

[Sebowski]

Isn't it suppose to be WR "corp", not core?

[NVskinsfan]

Good to know that the Redskins aren't on the list.

Would have been if we had sign Davis.....Thank God!!!

[Birdlives]

All I'll say is I've noticed a serious lack of dallas fans on this site since the signing of Davis became official. Apparently the ribbing they'd get is more than they can bare.

[NewCliche21]

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/adamschein/2007/03/05/Top_5_questionable_free_agents




click link for full article






I already picked the best deals of the free-agency period, now it's time for the bad deals.

Here are five I question:

1. Leonard Davis to Dallas – This is the worst move of the offseason thus far. Signing the underachieving and underwhelming tackle to a 7-year, $49.6 million deal, with $18.75 million in guaranteed money, is beyond comprehension. Honestly – did he do anything in Arizona? And when new coaches, offensive line guru Russ Grimm and head coach Ken Whisenhunt, study the film and don't make you an offer to stay in Arizona, where they are desperate to talent upgrades on the line, well, that tells you everything about everything.

2. Ashley Lelie to San F rancisco – Go ask a Bronco player or coach about Lelie off the record. Or a Falcon. The expression 'tissue paper soft' might be used.

3. Drew Bennett to St. Louis – $4.5 million a year for a No. 3 receiver with a chronic case of the yips? I thought the money could be better spent by the Rams.

4. Dennis Northcutt to Jacksonville – I was looking for something a bit more special at the receiver position from the Jaguars. Northcutt, who was an up and down Brown, won't stand out in that receiver core and help Byron Leftwich.

5. Ovie Mughelli to Atlanta – Did the Falcons really pay all that money for a fullback??

I just think it's funny that a professional writer can't spell the word "corps."

[HeHateMe]

Davis number one? Davis?

Wait, I thought he's the next all-pro guard who, despite six years in the league, just needs a bit more maturing!

The guy is a beast. :laugh:

That's what my puke pals at ES have been telling me...

Really? Who?

[Mr. S]

heh, I like the comment about Mughelli. Also, why didn't Atlanta just keep Justin Griffith, that guy seemed to do a good job. If they still have Griffith, I am going to laugh even more. That is a redic amount to pay for a FB either way.

[HeHateMe]

Hmmm, I thought the name of the article was 'top 5 questionable signings' and not 'top 5 worst signings' so far.

Who says Bubba is biased?

[HeHateMe]

[SIZE=3][B]Here are my top five red-flag signings:

Leonard Davis, OT/OG, Cowboys: It seems weird the Cowboys would give him so much money – an $18 million signing bonus – and they're not even sure if he'll play guard or tackle.

And here I thought his ability and versatility of giving us that choice was a plus. :whoknows:

[Califan007]

Hmmm, I thought the name of the article was 'top 5 questionable signings' and not 'top 5 worst signings' so far.

Who says Bubba is biased?

"1. Leonard Davis to Dallas – This is the worst move of the offseason thus far."


Notice the article did not say "This is the most questionable move of the offseason thus far."

I'm pretty sure that in this writer's eyes, "Questionable" = "Worst".

[HeHateMe]

"1. Leonard Davis to Dallas – This is the worst move of the offseason thus far."


Notice the article did not say "This is the most questionable move of the offseason thus far."

I'm pretty sure that in this writer's eyes, "Questionable" = "Worst".

While this may be true, the fact remains, the title is "questionable moves" not "worst moves".

[Califan007]

While this may be true, the fact remains, the title is "questionable moves" not "worst moves".
While this may be technically true, it hardly points to a bias on Bubba's part. When the writer himself starts off by saying his number one pick is the worst move of the offseason so far, you can't simply chalk it up to some perceived bias on Bubba's part that he included the same wording in his title.

[HeHateMe]

While this may be technically true, it hardly points to a bias on Bubba's part. When the writer himself starts off by saying his number one pick is the worst move of the offseason so far, you can't simply chalk it up to some perceived bias on Bubba's part that he included the same wording in his title.

Ok, so he classifies Davis as the worst FA signing, but does he deem the others that way? While I agree, one could infer his meaning, again, the "blog" says "questionable" not worst.

A more accurate title couldve been, "Top 5 Questionable signings with Davis being the worst one".

I'm breaking chops on Bubba since he did change the title of the article.

It's all in fun man.

[bubba9497]

Hmmm, I thought the name of the article was 'top 5 questionable signings' and not 'top 5 worst signings' so far.

Who says Bubba is biased?


yet another piss poor attempt to avoid the issue

arguing semantics doesn't change the fact two different articles pro claim the Pokes made a mistake.

but if you don't acknowledge it, it isn't true :laugh:

[TheREALJBird]

And here I thought his ability and versatility of giving us that choice was a plus. :whoknows:

Versatility yes, but let's face it all of the FA lineman so far hardly deserve Hutch money. Cowboys would be foolish to try and put him at tackle though IMO, he'll get ran by all game long.....but hey that isn't such a bad thing :D

[bubba9497]

And here I thought his ability and versatility of giving us that choice was a plus. :whoknows:


well IF he actually had any ability or versatility that would be true.... but :no:

[Fifty Gut]

Derrick Dockery, G, Bills/Eric Steinbach, G, Browns: I'll be the first to admit I can not evaluate offensive guard play, but I do know the Vikings' acquisition of guard Steve Hutchinson for record money barely improved their rushing offense. I doubt Dockery and Steinbach will have a great impact either.

The left side of the Vikings offensive line was dominant for Chester Taylor. Don't know what games this fool was watching..?

[SkinInsite]

Leonard Davis was a beast in Madden 04, i'd always trade for him.

[HeHateMe]

yet another piss poor attempt to avoid the issue

arguing semantics doesn't change the fact two different articles pro claim the Pokes made a mistake.

but if you don't acknowledge it, it isn't true :laugh:

Man, I always forget you can say with 100% certainty that a signing is bad before the player even takes a single snap.

Thanks for reminding me.

As I stated before, he was a high priority on my FA wish list.

The cost was steep, but thats the market right now.

Whether it works out or not, remains to be seen.

Funny that no one here is ready to give up on Lloyd, AA, ARE, even though they already have one season under their belt.

Lets give it a season or two before we start jumping off bridges.

[HeHateMe]

well IF he actually had any ability or versatility that would be true.... but :no:

Strange that the scouts who actually get paid for what they do think differently.

[jrockster21]

Isn't it suppose to be WR "corp", not core?

WR corps, actually. :)


While this may be true, the fact remains, the title is "questionable moves" not "worst moves".

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Split hairs, much?

PS - No Cowboy fan can ever give the Skins **** for signing underachieving players to monster contracts anymore, i.e. Randle-El. And for that matter, where is everyone else who were giving the Skins ****?? :mad:

[HeHateMe]

WR corps, actually. :)



:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Split hairs, much?

PS - No Cowboy fan can ever give the Skins **** for signing underachieving players to monster contracts anymore, i.e. Randle-El. And for that matter, where is everyone else who were giving the Skins ****?? :mad:

One recent signing where it would seem they paid too much doesnt come close to what the Redskins did last season.

And at least with Davis, we still dont know how it will go. So theres plenty of hope.

We've seen what Lloyd, AA and ARE have done at least for one season.

[HeHateMe]

[QUOTE=bubba9497][url]

1. Leonard Davis to Dallas – This is the worst move of the offseason thus far. Signing the underachieving and underwhelming tackle to a 7-year, $49.6 million deal, with $18.75 million in guaranteed money, is beyond comprehension. Honestly – did he do anything in Arizona? And when new coaches, offensive line guru Russ Grimm and head coach Ken Whisenhunt, study the film and don't make you an offer to stay in Arizona, where they are desperate to talent upgrades on the line, well, that tells you everything about everything.

[QUOTE]

SI.com has Davis as the 6th best signing thus far.

Go figure. Fletcher is #8.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0703/gallery.nfl.highimpactsignings/content.6.html

[jrockster21]

That list is automatically retarded - they have Dockery ranked behind Davis (not to mention Fletcher behind Davis). Dockery is 10 times the player Davis is. And Fletcher is 100 times the player he is. He's fat, lazy, and underachieves. What do you give to a player like that to motivate him? The answer certainly is NOT 50 million dollars. :laugh:

[dragon_mikal]

I really don't like the Davis signing. For one, it seems that the Cowboys plan on playing him at tackle because, despite what the other guards received, you don't pay a guard the much money. Now I don't know what went down with the Cardinals. Maybe they saw what Jones couldn't and wanted to dump him. Maybe he didn't want to return and he told them as much.

Who knows?

What I do know is that the signing might have made sense for less money and if they planned on putting him at guard to replace Rivera.

Regardless...the way it appears is that he will be put at tackle and that is strange, considering he is average at best at the position.

I just feel Jones could have spent the money on someone else.

[phatSkins27]

:dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck
I think with the Davis signing Jones saw a huge fat guy and thought Nate Newton. The fact that this guy plays football like issac newton got lost in the hipe. The only reason that the cowboys jacked up the price is because it thought it was out bidding the skins, when in fact the skins were not gonng pay near that for a guard or they would have kept Dockery. As I quoted before in the Stadium Forum from the washingtonpost yesterday, "the offensive guard is the most replaceable position in football". The cowboys gave him what we paid for Lloyd and Arch combined...and Randle El was NOT a bust!
:dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck :dallasuck
:logo:

[Skin Deep]

Man, I always forget you can say with 100% certainty that a signing is bad before the player even takes a single snap.

Lets give it a season or two before we start jumping off bridges.

Was the previous 6 seasons of snaps not enough? THAT was the anomaly and the real Leonard Davis will start playing now, right? :rolleyes:

[SkinsFTW]

Davis:
"He started 16 games and allowed eight sacks. He was also called for 11 penalties for 65 yards with nine of those penalties being false starts."

And that was on a team he had played 6 years with. What do you wanna bet he has even more false starts in Dallas this year?

"When we evaluated Leonard, we certainly see ability and ... improvement, especially as last season went on," new Cardinals coach Ken Whisenhunt said in a statement. "But when you look at the situation on the whole and take everything into account, we don't feel that the investment that would be required to keep him is equal to the performance."

And I don't think they had any idea that it would take anywhere near 50M to resign him either. I think they were talking more along the lines of 25-30M and still passed.

[bubba9497]

SI.com has Davis as the 6th best signing thus far.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0703/gallery.nfl.highimpactsignings/content.6.html


to this glowing caption


Dallas signed the 6-foot-6, 366-pound Davis for seven years, $50 million. Many experts think the former No. 2 overall pick is not a hard worker and will never be a star, but the Cowboys feel they can rehabilitate his career.

:laugh:



and yet SI.com has him the #1 most questionable (worst)

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_blogs/nfl/huddle_up/2006/2007/03/questionable-free-agent-signings.html

and even poke homer Petey King tlls Jerrah he'll be sorry for doing this in his MMQB column


Sunday, Leonard Davis (you'll be sorry, Jerry) skipped from Arizona to Dallas for $49.6 million over seven

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/03/04/thomas/index.html


:laugh: Go Figure

[bubba9497]

Was the previous 6 seasons of snaps not enough? THAT was the anomaly and the real Leonard Davis will start playing now, right? :rolleyes:


those 6 years don't count because he wasn't a cowboy, being coached by their great QB coach. Look at his success the past two seasons :laugh:

[bubba9497]

Strange that the scouts who actually get paid for what they do think differently.


no they don't, in fact no one does outside of the puppet master Jerry Jones does... even in your boast about SI rated him the #6 best signing, they said flat out most in the NFL think an underacheiver :laugh:

think about this, Dan Snyder (the owner who never met a FA he didn't like) let him walk away from DC, not only that but let him walk to Dallas... that says alot

I wouldn't doubt the Skins only appeared interested in the blob to make Jerrah spend more money.

The puppet master had his strings pulled by The Dan! :rotflmao:

[bubba9497]

Man, I always forget you can say with 100% certainty that a signing is bad before the player even takes a single snap.

Thanks for reminding me.

As I stated before, he was a high priority on my FA wish list.

The cost was steep, but thats the market right now.

Whether it works out or not, remains to be seen.

Funny that no one here is ready to give up on Lloyd, AA, ARE, even though they already have one season under their belt.

Lets give it a season or two before we start jumping off bridges.

ARE had a very good season

but the problem with your analogy, those three had actually DONE something before

Davis hasn't

[cnhnyy]

That list is automatically retarded - they have Dockery ranked behind Davis (not to mention Fletcher behind Davis). Dockery is 10 times the player Davis is. And Fletcher is 100 times the player he is. He's fat, lazy, and underachieves. What do you give to a player like that to motivate him? The answer certainly is NOT 50 million dollars. :laugh:

To inject some sanity to the discussion.

Here's how the 2006-07 NFC Pro Bowl roster looked for offensive tackles --
Starter -- Walter Jones
Starter -- Chris Samuels
Reserve -- Jammal Brown (injured)
First alternate -- Flozell Adams (replaced Brown)
Second alternate -- Leonard Davis
Third alternate -- Bryant McKinnie

Being in AZ, he got few fan votes. So, it was the coaches and players who were responsible for Davis being the second alternate for the Pro Bowl. They obviously had Davis ranked ahead of Tait, Miller and Runyan, probably ahead of Adams and possibly ahead of McKinnie, as well. And he was playing LT, which he is too big/slow for that.

He will be a staple to the pro bowl if cowboys let him play guard or RT.

[thespaniard]

To inject some sanity to the discussion.

Here's how the 2006-07 NFC Pro Bowl roster looked for offensive tackles --
Starter -- Walter Jones
Starter -- Chris Samuels
Reserve -- Jammal Brown (injured)
First alternate -- Flozell Adams (replaced Brown)
Second alternate -- Leonard Davis
Third alternate -- Bryant McKinnie

Being in AZ, he got few fan votes. So, it was the coaches and players who were responsible for Davis being the second alternate for the Pro Bowl. They obviously had Davis ranked ahead of Tait, Miller and Runyan, probably ahead of Adams and possibly ahead of McKinnie, as well. And he was playing LT, which he is too big/slow for that.

He will be a staple to the pro bowl if cowboys let him play guard or RT.

Interesting post. While the Pro Bowl is not the final word on which players are good, it certainly doesn't hurt to be named to the team, especially when you have a small fanbase.

I don't understand why everyone here won't at least wait a year or two before crapping on this signing. Sure he wasn't great in AZ, but so what? Lloyd played well in SF, and couldn't even get on the field in Washington. The Saints signed a QB last year with a shredded shoulder who ended up having the best year of his career. You just never know how it's gonna work out. It would be interesting to see this list from last year and see how many of those signings really were bad moves.

[OWUeagleMD]

I just think it's funny that a professional writer can't spell the word "corps."

Worse is that a professional editor can't catch the mistake.

[KLJ]

Really? Who?
i'd love to get the answer to that as well.. seems tr1 constantly makes claims about what people are saying but can never back it up.. i assume this is just another example..

[Riggo#44]

Interesting post. While the Pro Bowl is not the final word on which players are good, it certainly doesn't hurt to be named to the team, especially when you have a small fanbase.

I don't understand why everyone here won't at least wait a year or two before crapping on this signing. Sure he wasn't great in AZ, but so what? Lloyd played well in SF, and couldn't even get on the field in Washington. The Saints signed a QB last year with a shredded shoulder who ended up having the best year of his career. You just never know how it's gonna work out. It would be interesting to see this list from last year and see how many of those signings really were bad moves.

Here's why - the Cowboys organization right now is in upheval. One: they don't know where he is going to play. Two: new coaching staff, with an offensive coordinator with a whopping two years coaching experience - total. Three: Russ Grimm is the O-line coach in AZ now. Ken Whisenhut is the HC. They both feel Davis wasn't worth it - who would you rather believe them or Jerry Jones...Given Jones track record in the last 10 years, I'd side with anyone else!

[thespaniard]

Here's why - the Cowboys organization right now is in upheval. One: they don't know where he is going to play. Two: new coaching staff, with an offensive coordinator with a whopping two years coaching experience - total. Three: Russ Grimm is the O-line coach in AZ now. Ken Whisenhut is the HC. They both feel Davis wasn't worth it - who would you rather believe them or Jerry Jones...Given Jones track record in the last 10 years, I'd side with anyone else!

Those aren't great reasons to me.

Last year - Saints coaching staff in upheaval. New HC with no experience as such, a DC who had never been a DC, etc. Team was awful at 3-13 the year before. City of New Orleans was a shell of it's former self, and no one, even people in the organization knew where they would be playing in two years. To me, a much worse situation. They sign a QB who never really got it together his first few years in SD, and then when he finally did, he shredded his throwing shoulder. Yet the Saints threw 60 million at him anyway.

These risky signings happen every year. Some work out, some don't. But at least give it a year or two. A lot of solid/good/great signings don't work out either. LeCharles Bently was by far the best center out there last year. He was signed to a huge contract, and it was a 'great move' by Cleveland. Now, he probably will never see the field again. One more time - you just never know.

[Riggo#44]

Those aren't great reasons to me.

Last year - Saints coaching staff in upheaval. New HC with no experience as such, a DC who had never been a DC, etc. Team was awful at 3-13 the year before. City of New Orleans was a shell of it's former self, and no one, even people in the organization knew where they would be playing in two years. To me, a much worse situation. They sign a QB who never really got it together his first few years in SD, and then when he finally did, he shredded his throwing shoulder. Yet the Saints threw 60 million at him anyway.

These risky signings happen every year. Some work out, some don't. But at least give it a year or two. A lot of solid/good/great signings don't work out either. LeCharles Bently was by far the best center out there last year. He was signed to a huge contract, and it was a 'great move' by Cleveland. Now, he probably will never see the field again. One more time - you just never know.

Why do I bother, you're jacket here is Saints Fan/Skins Hater. I am not surprised you're defending everything Cowboys/Iggles etc.

Based on Davis' history, his past 6 years in the league - he's OVERPAID. Simple fact. He has a rep of being very lazy. Phillips isn't known for being a master motivator.

Payton had how many years coaching exp. before becoming a head coach? I am will to bet it was more the 2 total years of coaching experience at ANY level. He has been a QB coach for 2 years. 2. Total. That's a question mark - no matter how you spin it. Simple Fact.

Phillips is not known as a "master motivator" - so with players like Adams and now Davis, there are more questions there.

So while one doesn't know how it'll work out - Phillips could pull a Belicheck. It's unlikely and there are many, many, many questions. That's upheval. AND it's Jerry Jones calling the shots. So based on HIS history, he doesn't make the wisest decisions.

[TheFan]

Overall, Arizona's offense wasn't nearly as talented as the Cowboys offense Davis will play on so I have reason to think he can perform better with Dallas. Nate Newton wasn't particularly good during the last few years with Landry but once they got more talent around him he was suddenly considered dominating. We'll see.

The question about where he will start is based on injuries and FA. Since Davis did play guard and tackle with Az, they think they have someone that can fit in at either position, even if its temporarily. This will probably be settled prior to the draft barring injuries.

The market this year for FA's is crazy for the prices that they are paying out. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the Skin's lost out on Davis because they were too close to the cap and lost the bidding war. If Davis turns out to be a bust, it's all good for the Skins. If not....oh well.

TheFan

[Riggo#44]

Overall, Arizona's offense wasn't nearly as talented as the Cowboys offense Davis will play on so I have reason to think he can perform better with Dallas. Nate Newton wasn't particularly good during the last few years with Landry but once they got more talent around him he was suddenly considered dominating. We'll see.

The question about where he will start is based on injuries and FA. Since Davis did play guard and tackle with Az, they think they have someone that can fit in at either position, even if its temporarily. This will probably be settled prior to the draft barring injuries.

The market this year for FA's is crazy for the prices that they are paying out. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the Skin's lost out on Davis because they were too close to the cap and lost the bidding war. If Davis turns out to be a bust, it's all good for the Skins. If not....oh well.

TheFan

I am happy to see the Skins not shelling out major money...they are paying their own. While I am starting to worry about who will play guard, it does make me happy to see they are not panicking - i.e. the TJ Duckett deal.

Who is the Cowboys line coach anyway?

[thespaniard]

Why do I bother, you're jacket here is Saints Fan/Skins Hater. I am not surprised you're defending everything Cowboys/Iggles etc.

Based on Davis' history, his past 6 years in the league - he's OVERPAID. Simple fact. He has a rep of being very lazy. Phillips isn't known for being a master motivator.

Payton had how many years coaching exp. before becoming a head coach? I am will to bet it was more the 2 total years of coaching experience at ANY level. He has been a QB coach for 2 years. 2. Total. That's a question mark - no matter how you spin it. Simple Fact.

Phillips is not known as a "master motivator" - so with players like Adams and now Davis, there are more questions there.

So while one doesn't know how it'll work out - Phillips could pull a Belicheck. It's unlikely and there are many, many, many questions. That's upheval. AND it's Jerry Jones calling the shots. So based on HIS history, he doesn't make the wisest decisions.

I am not defending this signing as a good one. I have no opinion either way because it is too early to tell. I am just saying that I will wait a year at least before judging it, and pointing out recent history that shows we should all be a little wiser before drawing conclusions about a free agency signing.

[tr4]

Strange that the scouts who actually get paid for what they do think differently.

again dont mean to take sides, but he is right. every scouting report ive read on this guy has been nothing but positive. Prisco and other internet writers get blasted on this site often so im not sure why we now take their opinion like it actually matters. all those internet writers for fox, cbs, ESPN on occassion, dont have a clue as to what they are talking about. they are journalists not scouts. the guy has probably seen one arizona game in the past 5 years like the rest of us.

[tr4]

Overall, Arizona's offense wasn't nearly as talented as the Cowboys offense Davis will play on so I have reason to think he can perform better with Dallas. Nate Newton wasn't particularly good during the last few years with Landry but once they got more talent around him he was suddenly considered dominating. We'll see.

The question about where he will start is based on injuries and FA. Since Davis did play guard and tackle with Az, they think they have someone that can fit in at either position, even if its temporarily. This will probably be settled prior to the draft barring injuries.

The market this year for FA's is crazy for the prices that they are paying out. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the Skin's lost out on Davis because they were too close to the cap and lost the bidding war. If Davis turns out to be a bust, it's all good for the Skins. If not....oh well.

TheFan

again, they dont know what position davis is playing because they are waiting to see what happens with Columbo. They also have Flozell's contract running up next year I believe so getting Davis gives them flexibility.
And we have to be careful with what we classify as overpaying now. I am telling you free agency is a whole new beast now. When the cap rises $15 million per year you are going to have teams that have $40 in cap room and can spend all that money. If the boys do end up releasing marco rivera then they would have about $27-$29 million in cap room before all the signings they have made so that big contract to davis isnt really all that much.

[Riggo#44]

again dont mean to take sides, but he is right. every scouting report ive read on this guy has been nothing but positive. Prisco and other internet writers get blasted on this site often so im not sure why we now take their opinion like it actually matters. all those internet writers for fox, cbs, ESPN on occassion, dont have a clue as to what they are talking about. they are journalists not scouts. the guy has probably seen one arizona game in the past 5 years like the rest of us.

Right...b/c scouts never make mistakes, certainly not those employed by Jerry Jones!

Whether this deal will work out over the long run has yet to be seen , but considering the money, his performance so far in the league, and they still don't know where he will play points to a bad signing. That may change.

[AKM311]

Ok here is my thinking on Davis. At first I wanted Davis, because I thought he would come pretty cheap, along the lines of a 4 years 16 mill contract. I did not expect 18.5M gaurentueed. I think Davis can be a very solid guard , because he is slow and the guard position doesn't require you to pass block speed rushers.

But here is the point no one seems to make. Last year was Davis's contract year and he still was just average. He got paid like he played is azz off, but he didn't! In his contract year he did nothing to make people think the guy has potential. See the Skins have overpaid in the past, because people in there contract years actually did some damage to warrant the contract. I think this signing is going to bite the Boys in the rear just like AA did with the Skins. The diff with AA he went to several pro bowls unlike Davis.

Also, I forgot who wrote the article, but never sign FAs to huge contracts when you are inserting them to new systems or changing there positions, because that is what the recipe for disaster is in the NFL FA market. I think we learned that with AA and Lloyd. The Boys are in for a treat on this on IMO. Although I think signing Brad Johnson was a very smart move, dispite what others on this board may say!

Also, anyone who says we overpaid for ARE, are stat junkies. This guy with his heart, attitude, playing 2 positions (WR and PR) and making impacts everytime he actually gets the ball, is worth the money.

[TheFan]

Sporano handles the OL responsibilities for Dallas along with assisting on play calling. He's also got the title of assistant HC now. Dallas denied Cleveland and San Diego requests to interview him for their OC positions.

TheFan

[tr4]

Right...b/c scouts never make mistakes, certainly not those employed by Jerry Jones!

Whether this deal will work out over the long run has yet to be seen , but considering the money, his performance so far in the league, and they still don't know where he will play points to a bad signing. That may change.

yeah your right, lets trust journalists over scouts...that makes sense. And i wasnt referring to any scouting reports from the boys scouts. the fact that he can play multiple positions is a good thing, not a bad one. they dont know at this point only because they are still working on colombo.
come on people, nobody here, including myself, can even comment on the play of Leonard Davis. stop taking the talking points of foxsports or cbssports articles. how many here actually have seen leonard play week in and week out and actually understand how to evaluate what you are seeing?

[Veretax]

wait are they paying davis more then TO? that WOULD be funny :)

[Riggo#44]

yeah your right, lets trust journalists over scouts...that makes sense. And i wasnt referring to any scouting reports from the boys scouts. the fact that he can play multiple positions is a good thing, not a bad one. they dont know at this point only because they are still working on colombo.
come on people, nobody here, including myself, can even comment on the play of Leonard Davis. stop taking the talking points of foxsports or cbssports articles. how many here actually have seen leonard play week in and week out and actually understand how to evaluate what you are seeing?

Oh? And I assume you do, with TOTAL objectivity, don't you. Fact is the AZ offensive line was TERRIBLE. And he was essentially CUT - by the current coaching staff. And I will take Grimms' knowledge of offensive linemen over Jones, or CBSSportsline, or whoever else you want to throw out there. Doesn't that strike you as odd?

Just out of curiosity, what would be saying if the Redskins had signed him to this deal? You'd be laughing, saying Snyder overpaid again.

[thespaniard]

Fact is the AZ offensive line was TERRIBLE. And he was essentially CUT - by the current coaching staff.



Just like the Pro Bowl isn't the true measure of a player being good, I don't think getting cut is the true measure of a player being bad. Players are cut for a lot of reasons. You could field a hell of a team with everyone who was cut each year.

[tr1]

Just like the Pro Bowl isn't the true measure of a player being good, I don't think getting cut is the true measure of a player being bad. Players are cut for a lot of reasons. You could field a hell of a team with everyone who was cut each year.

I believe he got cut, not because of what it would cost to sign him, but that the Cards were tremendously fed up with his under-performance...and they said so in public.

Nice attempt at spin, though... :laugh:

[jrockster21]

Overall, Arizona's offense wasn't nearly as talented as the Cowboys offense Davis will play on so I have reason to think he can perform better with Dallas.


Yeah, now why was that again? Was it because of....hmmm...maybe....THE OFFENSIVE LINE WAS JUST PLAIN OFFENSIVE? :laugh:

Of all 32 teams, the Cardinals are arguably the team with the most need at OLine. They are also one of the teams with the largest amount of cap room. Top that off with the fact that Russ Grimm and Ken Whizenhunt, two guys who KNOW offensive lineman, are now the coaches there and the fact that they STILL didn't want him speaks volumes.

Davis is huge. He has a lot of potential. He is also fat, lazy, and not a hard worker. Now that he has a bajillion dollars, I predict he'll work even LESS. Get ready to be disappointed, Puke fans.

[Riggo#44]

Yeah, now why was that again? Was it because of....hmmm...maybe....THE OFFENSIVE LINE WAS JUST PLAIN OFFENSIVE? :laugh:

Of all 32 teams, the Cardinals are arguably the team with the most need at OLine. They are also one of the teams with the largest amount of cap room. Top that off with the fact that Russ Grimm and Ken Whizenhunt, two guys who KNOW offensive lineman, are now the coaches there and the fact that they STILL didn't want him speaks volumes.

Davis is huge. He has a lot of potential. He is also fat, lazy, and not a hard worker. Now that he has a bajillion dollars, I predict he'll work even LESS. Get ready to be disappointed, Puke fans.

I love this - Davis has Dana Stubblefield written ALL over him...

[Who Del]

I'm sorry but when you aren't re-signed by the Cardinals (who probably have the worst line in football) that is saying A LOT about your talent and techniques. Maybe it can be fixed but I'd be very weary of this move.

[jrockster21]

To inject some sanity to the discussion.

Here's how the 2006-07 NFC Pro Bowl roster looked for offensive tackles --
Starter -- Walter Jones
Starter -- Chris Samuels
Reserve -- Jammal Brown (injured)
First alternate -- Flozell Adams (replaced Brown)
Second alternate -- Leonard Davis
Third alternate -- Bryant McKinnie

Being in AZ, he got few fan votes. So, it was the coaches and players who were responsible for Davis being the second alternate for the Pro Bowl. They obviously had Davis ranked ahead of Tait, Miller and Runyan, probably ahead of Adams and possibly ahead of McKinnie, as well. And he was playing LT, which he is too big/slow for that.

He will be a staple to the pro bowl if cowboys let him play guard or RT.

:laugh: Here's an alternate theory:
'
Leonard Davis is the only AZ offensive lineman that most people know. Why? Because he gets a lot of media attention being a first round pick, and being a behemoth. He is the measuring stick that all other offensive lineman are measured against in terms of size, and is quite well known because of that.

Add to that that most NFL fans are retarded, and will vote for him solely based on name recognition. He probably got a little respect from coaches and players, but it was the fan vote that got him into the SECOND ALTERNATE spot. :laugh:

Do you have a link to the amount of votes each player got? Or are you making this data up?

[thespaniard]

I believe he got cut, not because of what it would cost to sign him, but that the Cards were tremendously fed up with his under-performance...and they said so in public.

Nice attempt at spin, though... :laugh:

Do you have a link to this quote?

And was it by the current coaching staff?

I stand by the points I made in this thread:

Players who get cut are not necessarily bad players. Conversely, players who make the Pro Bowl aren't necessarily good ones.

You cannot evaluate a signing until at least a year after, and those who do are myopic at best.

[Riggo#44]

Do you have a link to this quote?

And was it by the current coaching staff?

I stand by the points I made in this thread:

Players who get cut are not necessarily bad players. Conversely, players who make the Pro Bowl aren't necessarily good ones.

You cannot evaluate a signing until at least a year after, and those who do are myopic at best.

They gave $18mil to a chronic underachiever - that is what I am basing this move off of - that and Jones has a history of making poor decisions, as does Snyder - only not as well documented...

[TheFan]

Yeah, now why was that again? Was it because of....hmmm...maybe....THE OFFENSIVE LINE WAS JUST PLAIN OFFENSIVE? :laugh:

Of all 32 teams, the Cardinals are arguably the team with the most need at OLine. They are also one of the teams with the largest amount of cap room. Top that off with the fact that Russ Grimm and Ken Whizenhunt, two guys who KNOW offensive lineman, are now the coaches there and the fact that they STILL didn't want him speaks volumes.

Davis is huge. He has a lot of potential. He is also fat, lazy, and not a hard worker. Now that he has a bajillion dollars, I predict he'll work even LESS. Get ready to be disappointed, Puke fans.

Apparently Grimm's and Whizenhunt's opinions weren't enough to keep the Skin's coaching staff from taking a look at him just as Dallas did.

How easy can it be to go to work for a team that has perennially been at the bottom of the barrel? It's hard to imagine many people having good work ethics there.

Like I said, maybe he will be the disaster that Skin's fans now hope. Then again, perhaps with a bit more talent around him, players that have better work ethics, maybe he will reach some if not all of the potential that made him the 2nd overall pick in 2001.

Davis is 28 so if he performs the Cowboys could get a few years out of him.

We'll see.

One thing is certain. The money being thrown around this year is ridiculous.


TheFan

[Riggo#44]

Apparently Grimm's and Whizenhunt's opinions weren't enough to keep the Skin's coaching staff from taking a look at him just as Dallas did.

Yes, but who gave him an $18 mil bonus?


It's hard to imagine many people having good work ethics there.

Like I said, maybe he will be the disaster that Skin's fans now hope. Then again, perhaps with a bit more talent around him, players that have better work ethics, maybe he will reach some if not all of the potential that made him the 2nd overall pick in 2001.

Davis is 28 so if he performs the Cowboys could get a few years out of him.

We'll see.

One thing is certain. The money being thrown around this year is ridiculous.


TheFan

Phillips is not known for running a tight ship, or is a strcit disciplinarian. And a very, very inexperienced OC - it doesn't make for a good formula in my eyes...time will tell.

The money is insane this year and I for one am glad the Skins are NOT a part of it. The deals they have done are much more sane

[bubba9497]

Apparently Grimm's and Whizenhunt's opinions weren't enough to keep the Skin's coaching staff from taking a look at him just as Dallas did. TheFan



unless they wanted to make Jerry spend more money :laugh:

[TheFan]

Yes, but who gave him an $18 mil bonus?



Phillips is not known for running a tight ship, or is a strcit disciplinarian. And a very, very inexperienced OC - it doesn't make for a good formula in my eyes...time will tell.

The money is insane this year and I for one am glad the Skins are NOT a part of it. The deals they have done are much more sane


Come on Riggo... You're young and the Skin's need a guard! Give them a break and let 'em sign you for say 25 mil! Do that 12th man thing!

We're behind you. (By atleast several 100 yards so the blood doesn't hit us.)


TheFan

[cnhnyy]

:laugh: Here's an alternate theory:

Add to that that most NFL fans are retarded, and will vote for him solely based on name recognition. He probably got a little respect from coaches and players, but it was the fan vote that got him into the SECOND ALTERNATE spot. :laugh:


Before you open your mouth, google the topic.

Here are the results of the fan voting --

1. John Tait, 127,241
2. Flozell Adams, 118,648
3. Fred Miller, 105,340
4. Walter Jones, 104,995
5. Jon Runyan, 89,651

the 2006-07 NFC Pro Bowl for offensive tackles after coach/player vote--

Starter -- Walter Jones
Starter -- Chris Samuels
Reserve -- Jammal Brown (injured)
First alternate -- Flozell Adams (replaced Brown)
Second alternate -- Leonard Davis
Third alternate -- Bryant McKinnie

As you can see, after the coaches' votes (one-third of the total) and players' votes (one-third) were combined with the fan voting (one-third), the order changed completely. Jones moved up to first or second, Samuels vaulted to first or second, Brown jumped to third, Adams dropped to fourth, Davis moved up to fifth, McKinnie finished sixth, and both Bears (Tait and Miller) dropped out of the top six, as did Runyan

[TheFan]

Nice bit of research there cnhnyy.

Unless, of course, there was a conspiracy by the rest of the league to rate Davis high so that the Cowboys would spend 49 million on him. What do you think Bubba? Is the pro bowl voting by the players and coaches a clever ploy to make the Cowboys overpay for Davis?

You're not paranoid if people really are out to get you....ya know?

TheFan

[jrockster21]

Apparently Grimm's and Whizenhunt's opinions weren't enough to keep the Skin's coaching staff from taking a look at him just as Dallas did.

Of course they're going to take a look at him. He's HUGE, and has loads of potential. But when he made his contract demands known, the Skins rightfully said "don't let the door hit your enormous ass on the way out."

By this rational, Arch and Randle-El were fantastic signings last off-season, because they both had other teams interested in them. However most Puke fans trashed these signings as much as possible.


How easy can it be to go to work for a team that has perennially been at the bottom of the barrel? It's hard to imagine many people having good work ethics there.

Hasn't seemed to hurt Larry Fitzgerald or Anquan Boldin's production.


Like I said, maybe he will be the disaster that Skin's fans now hope. Then again, perhaps with a bit more talent around him, players that have better work ethics, maybe he will reach some if not all of the potential that made him the 2nd overall pick in 2001.

Who knows...maybe this is possible. Or maybe he was promised the chance to compete for an OT spot. When he doesn't get it, and is moved inside to guard, maybe he doesn't work as hard as he could. Or maybe now that he has his buttload of money, he sits back on his laurels and gets even fatter. I think both of these scenarios are much more likely than him actually becoming a "staple at the probowl." :doh:

[jrockster21]

Before you open your mouth, google the topic.

Here are the results of the fan voting --

1. John Tait, 127,241
2. Flozell Adams, 118,648
3. Fred Miller, 105,340
4. Walter Jones, 104,995
5. Jon Runyan, 89,651

the 2006-07 NFC Pro Bowl for offensive tackles after coach/player vote--

Starter -- Walter Jones
Starter -- Chris Samuels
Reserve -- Jammal Brown (injured)
First alternate -- Flozell Adams (replaced Brown)
Second alternate -- Leonard Davis
Third alternate -- Bryant McKinnie

As you can see, after the coaches' votes (one-third of the total) and players' votes (one-third) were combined with the fan voting (one-third), the order changed completely. Jones moved up to first or second, Samuels vaulted to first or second, Brown jumped to third, Adams dropped to fourth, Davis moved up to fifth, McKinnie finished sixth, and both Bears (Tait and Miller) dropped out of the top six, as did Runyan

:laugh: How do you know Davis wasn't 6th or 7th? You provide a top 5 list as if its any kind of proof. :laugh: #6 and 7 could have been separated by a couple thousand votes. Nice try though...I guess in your mind that constitutes a rational argument. :doh:

BTW, when we post stats like this on here, we provide links.

[Passizle]

Man, I always forget you can say with 100% certainty that a signing is bad before the player even takes a single snap.

Why not? Thats what you, THA and countless other Plowtoy fans said when we aquired Lloyd, ARE and AA last year. You guys also backed it up with articles from opinionated writers. You and the writers were correct. We were blind homers... admitted.:(

So why the rebuttle? Here we are... one year later... one under-acheiving/overrated and far overpaid player later and the shoe is one the other foot. The truth will come out during the season, but you cant deny that JJ WAY overpaid for a HUGE risk of a player.

Best of luck to you!:silly:

[TheFan]

According to a Washington Post article, Davis was deciding between the Cowboys and Skin's. It doesn't sound like the Skin's said get lost. The best guess is that they were simply outbid. The article implies that money would be the deciding factor.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/03/AR2007030300808.html?nav=rss_email/components

BTW, Randle El was a good signing for the Skins. The Skin's got decent production out of him and probably would have gotten more if Brunell wasn't always locked in on Moss and unable to get the ball down field to Randle. With JC in Randle has the chance to explode this year.

I'm not sure about Arch. There was an article that came out during the season, in the post I think, where they talked about rifts between the defensive coaches and how they wouldn't work together. According to it the secondary was never on the same page and they had Arch trying to do things that hurt his performance. The article was brutal on Williams. I'm curious how he will perform this year.

Bad comparision between OL's and WR's. WR's are a different breed that only depend on the QB and their own skills to make the highlight reels. OL work together, with one calling line adjustments that impact all of them. It's easy for a WR to stand out from his team.



TheFan

[cnhnyy]

:laugh: How do you know Davis wasn't 6th or 7th? You provide a top 5 list as if its any kind of proof. :laugh: #6 and 7 could have been separated by a couple thousand votes. Nice try though...I guess in your mind that constitutes a rational argument. :doh:

BTW, when we post stats like this on here, we provide links.

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=nfl/probowl/2007/file.aspx?s=voting

Well, you were saying it was FANS to put him on second alternate (5th best T in NFC) while the facts are that he was not in top five of fan voting. I would think Samules, Orando pace would also have gotten more votes than him. He might not be even in top seven in fan voting.

So, next time, learn to google.

[HeHateMe]

Was the previous 6 seasons of snaps not enough? THAT was the anomaly and the real Leonard Davis will start playing now, right? :rolleyes:

Sparano made a player out of Columbo when he was given up for dead, why cant he do the same for Davis?

[HeHateMe]

to this glowing caption



:laugh:



and yet SI.com has him the #1 most questionable (worst)

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_blogs/nfl/huddle_up/2006/2007/03/questionable-free-agent-signings.html

and even poke homer Petey King tlls Jerrah he'll be sorry for doing this in his MMQB column



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/03/04/thomas/index.html


:laugh: Go Figure

Oh wow, did Petey King say that?

The same guy this site gives ZERO credibility to?

It must be true then. The same way Dallas was to go to the Super Bowl this year.

Love how when he bashes Dallas, youre all over it, but every other time, he's worthless.

[HeHateMe]

Why not? Thats what you, THA and countless other Plowtoy fans said when we aquired Lloyd, ARE and AA last year. You guys also backed it up with articles from opinionated writers. You and the writers were correct. We were blind homers... admitted.:(

So why the rebuttle? Here we are... one year later... one under-acheiving/overrated and far overpaid player later and the shoe is one the other foot. The truth will come out during the season, but you cant deny that JJ WAY overpaid for a HUGE risk of a player.

Best of luck to you!:silly:

Go find one post from ME bashing those signings before they took a snap then come back and talk me.

[THEHEREAFTER]

Baaah hum bug! The damn media is so mean and they're always so biased and wrong! Wait a minute... this one's about the Cowboys? :laugh: I love the media!

[HapHaszard]

Baaah hum bug! The damn media is so mean and they're always so biased and wrong! Wait a minute... this one's about the Cowboys? :laugh: I love the media!
I still think Peter King is a rectum. :laugh:

[bubba9497]

I am still waiting for anyone to justify paying a guy whose never shown to be anything other than a draft bust.... in 6 years, to be paid what Dallas gave him.

no matter how he pans out....

You don't pay top dollar for a maybe, or potential after you have 6 years of experience to gage his ability... if Dallas signed him at half what they gave him, it would still be a questionable signing.

At that money, they are saying he is going to be a perennial all pro, and never give up any sacks.

to give a little perspective, Davis alone gave up more than half the sacks of the Colts entire OL last season, heck he had just a little less than half of all the sacks the Skins OL had last season.

Another point, the Cardinals were a bad OL last season, yet still had fewer sacks (35) than the Cowboys (37), and he gave up more sacks than either guy he may replace in Dallas last season.

[tr1]

^^^ Please do not look a gift horse in the mouth.

:laugh:

[TheFan]

Normally the definition of a draft bust is a player that doesn't play well enough to stay on the field. Ryan Leaf, Bosworth, Mandarich, Akili Smith, Heath Shuler, Andre Ware, Marinovich... Those were draft busts.

Davis has started for the past 6 years. While his performance may not have been stellar, the Cards still started him all but 5 games in 6 years.

As far as the amount Dallas paid him goes, the price is more a sign of the times rather than a statement that he must be a perennial pro bowler though he still has the potential to be one.

We'll see.

TheFan

[Jeremiah_Johnson]

click link for full article






I already picked the best deals of the free-agency period, now it's time for the bad deals.



Wow, I usually like to wait until free agency is at least a week old before I question who did well and who didn't. Heck, I"ve even heard that some people wait a year to see how things pan out before they declare good and bad deals.

You must have a crystal ball bubba.:rolleyes: Wow, you're amazing.

I'll tell you what. Since most people don't have the crystal ball you have, and the rest of us like to wait at least a year until we see who made the worst deals, I'd be interested to know what your thoughts are from last years free agency.

I have my list of the worst signings from last year. Hmmmmm, let me think.

Arch
Lloyd
the DE from the niners, I can't even remember his name he was so bad.


But here you are declaring bad deals for THIS YEAR???? Foolish.

I noticed I didn't see Dockery on that list. He should be on your list way ahead of Leonard Davis. But hey, Davis is a poke now right? And you still have feelings for dock right?

What a joke.

[MisterPinstripe]

Wow, I usually like to wait until free agency is at least a week old before I question who did well and who didn't. Heck, I"ve even heard that some people wait a year to see how things pan out before they declare good and bad deals.

You must have a crystal ball bubba.:rolleyes: Wow, you're amazing.

I'll tell you what. Since most people don't have the crystal ball you have, and the rest of us like to wait at least a year until we see who made the worst deals, I'd be interested to know what your thoughts are from last years free agency.

I have my list of the worst signings from last year. Hmmmmm, let me think.

Arch
Lloyd
the DE from the niners, I can't even remember his name he was so bad.


But here you are declaring bad deals for THIS YEAR???? Foolish.

I noticed I didn't see Dockery on that list. He should be on your list way ahead of Leonard Davis. But hey, Davis is a poke now right? And you still have feelings for dock right?

What a joke.

Lets see... That 49er that sucked so bad had less sacks then only one guy on your team, DeMarcus Ware, and that was after switching from a 3-4 OLB to a 4-3 DE. He also happened to have more tackles then everyone but 6 guys on your team. Williams, Newman, Henry, James Ayodel, and Ware. If he sucked to bad you didnt know his name, how bad was the rest of the cowboy team?

[MisterPinstripe]

Wow, I usually like to wait until free agency is at least a week old before I question who did well and who didn't. Heck, I"ve even heard that some people wait a year to see how things pan out before they declare good and bad deals.

You must have a crystal ball bubba.:rolleyes: Wow, you're amazing.

I'll tell you what. Since most people don't have the crystal ball you have, and the rest of us like to wait at least a year until we see who made the worst deals, I'd be interested to know what your thoughts are from last years free agency.

I have my list of the worst signings from last year. Hmmmmm, let me think.

Arch
Lloyd
the DE from the niners, I can't even remember his name he was so bad.


But here you are declaring bad deals for THIS YEAR???? Foolish.

I noticed I didn't see Dockery on that list. He should be on your list way ahead of Leonard Davis. But hey, Davis is a poke now right? And you still have feelings for dock right?

What a joke.

And also, on a side note, you seem to think Bubba wrote the article. He didn't.

[tr4]

Oh? And I assume you do, with TOTAL objectivity, don't you. Fact is the AZ offensive line was TERRIBLE. And he was essentially CUT - by the current coaching staff. And I will take Grimms' knowledge of offensive linemen over Jones, or CBSSportsline, or whoever else you want to throw out there. Doesn't that strike you as odd?

Just out of curiosity, what would be saying if the Redskins had signed him to this deal? You'd be laughing, saying Snyder overpaid again.

everyone here provides stats and articles, let me see one about Grimms not wanting Leonard because he was lazy or an underachiever. Is this something you are just assuming or is there some factual support for this.

and if you read any of my posts before leonard was signed i said over and over that whoever got this guy was getting a good guard that would come in and help improve the line. I meant that the case for the Giants, Redskins and Cowboys. I have said before I have no alliance to any team and am just giving you an unbiased opinion. I dont agree with the consensus opinion that, "the guy didnt sign with us and is a Cowboy now, that means he sucks." I actually want to rate a guy on talent. And like I said in my last post that you didnt pick up was that no one here INCLUDING MYSELF can fairly rate this man's performance because we have all seen about 1 Cardinal game in the past 5 years. Only thing going on here are people taking the talking points of articles written by journalists. Read a scouting report instead of what a journalist has to say.

[MisterPinstripe]

everyone here provides stats and articles, let me see one about Grimms not wanting Leonard because he was lazy or an underachiever. Is this something you are just assuming or is there some factual support for this.


Look at the facts. The Cards have had a horrible O-line. A new coach comes in and brings along Russ Grim who is a great line coach. They know there is a problem with the offensive line. Grimm knows what he is doing and they let Davis go? That says a lot to me and I think most people who follow the NFL. :2cents:

[sknsrbck26]

Good to know that the Redskins aren't on the list.

Exactly:applause:

[redman]

Minnesota's signing of Shiancoe to a huge deal belongs on this list.

[bubba9497]

You must have a crystal ball bubba.:rolleyes: Wow, you're amazing.


Yes I am especially when it comes to understanding when a link is posted, it is because the article was written somewhere else on the web, by someone else :rolleyes:



I'll tell you what. Since most people don't have the crystal ball you have, and the rest of us like to wait at least a year until we see who made the worst deals, I'd be interested to know what your thoughts are from last years free agency.

I have my list of the worst signings from last year. Hmmmmm, let me think.

Arch
Lloyd
the DE from the niners, I can't even remember his name he was so bad.


Wow, you are awesome

for one Lloyd was via trade not a FA

Arch, so far didn't work out

Carter had 6 sacks, and several tackles for loss... hardy a bust... but since you didn't know his name, it is obvious you didn't know that... just wanted to say something "bad" about the Skins as if it changes the fact the Pokes were raped in a deal for Davis

per others who wrote articles... see the "link" comment

BTW th thread is about this years bad FA signings... sorry the Skins are not on there this year :whoknows:




But here you are declaring bad deals for THIS YEAR???? Foolish.

I noticed I didn't see Dockery on that list. He should be on your list way ahead of Leonard Davis. But hey, Davis is a poke now right? And you still have feelings for dock right?

What a joke.

Again.... I didn't Proclaim squat, just posted the articles (though I agree with them)

also if you actually clicked the link and READ the articles, Dockery was on one of them... and why should Dockery taking a ****load of money from the Bills, mean anything to the Redskins FO???? they didn't pay him that.. hence the reason he signed with Buffalo

Logic, what a concept!! :laugh:

So basically you are just mad because someone (actually several) sportswriters said Jerrah made a mistake, and since you can't take it out on them, you post a bunch of nonsense, and blast me because I posted their articles :laugh:

But not did once you post anything to justify Jones paying the most ever for a Cowboy FA, the most ever for a Guard/Right Tackle on a guy who MAYBE able to reach his potential, despite the fact in 6 seasons in the NFL he hasn't come close to being good... much less being great enough to warrant being the highest paid player at his position, and on his new team :thumbsup:

Poke Fan Mantra

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/bubba9497/2958620see20hear20speak20no20evil20.jpg

[bubba9497]

And also, on a side note, you seem to think Bubba wrote the article. He didn't.


he is wrong about almost everything else.... why not "who wrote the articles" as well :rotflmao:

[Jeremiah_Johnson]

Yes I am especially when it comes to understanding when a link is posted, it is because the article was written somewhere else on the web, by someone else :rolleyes:

Ok, my bad, I thought it was your opinion. What a shocker you agree with it though.






for one Lloyd was via trade not a FA
Even worse, you gave up a pick for him, AND you signed him to a big money deal when he still had time on his contract. I can't figure out what is dumber, giving away the picks for that bum, or signing him to big money when you didn't have to.


Arch, so far didn't work out

Uh, yeah, thats the understatement of the year. If Arch was a cowboy, I doubt you'd be so kind as to just say "So far, he hasn't worked out"



Carter had 6 sacks, and several tackles for loss... hardy a bust... but since you didn't know his name, it is obvious you didn't know that... just wanted to say something "bad" about the Skins as if it changes the fact the Pokes were raped in a deal for Davis

Oh sorry, I didn't realize he was such a playmaker :laugh: I must've missed him in the probowl.



also if you actually clicked the link and READ the articles, Dockery was on one of them... and why should Dockery taking a ****load of money from the Bills, mean anything to the Redskins FO???? they didn't pay him that.. hence the reason he signed with Buffalo

Logic, what a concept!! :laugh:

I never said the skins had a bad free agency period. Me thinks your getting a little defensive. I think the Bills made fools of themselves to pay dock that kind of money. I'm sure had you not mortgaged the farm last year, the midget would have matched the offer this year.

[bulldog]

if Parcells had remained in Dallas Davis would not be there right now :)

[jrockster21]

if Parcells had remained in Dallas Davis would not be there right now :)

Parcells would have looked at the contract proposal from Davis' agent and then laughed right in his face. :laugh:

[bubba9497]

Ok, my bad, I thought it was your opinion. What a shocker you agree with it though..


almost a big a shocker as a poke fan crying because someone said something they didn't want to hear about Jerrah





Even worse, you gave up a pick for him, AND you signed him to a big money deal when he still had time on his contract. I can't figure out what is dumber, giving away the picks for that bum, or signing him to big money when you didn't have to.

Wait is this thread about the Redskins??? :laugh:

you know no one is saying it was a great move, and all you have to do is go to the Stadium forum and click on one of several hundred threads complaining about it

but the point was simple.... in your childish attempt to lash back you erroneously labeled him a FA

this "getting thing wrong" thing seems to be a habit with you



Uh, yeah, thats the understatement of the year. If Arch was a cowboy, I doubt you'd be so kind as to just say "So far, he hasn't worked out"

:jerk:

file this response under the same category as "I know you are what am I" variety




Oh sorry, I didn't realize he was such a playmaker :laugh: I must've missed him in the probowl.

if he had I am sure you would have missed it, going by your past history with getting facts wrong

but again the point (something your keep avoiding) He wasn't a bust, and was productive especially at his contract price... compared to what some DL have gotten so far this season who had worse numbers last year.. he was a bargain

See that is the point...Davis production doesn't equal the value of the contract he was given.... not even close... and even with Steinbach and Dockery getting near the same money.... they at least had better production the past couple of years compared to what Davis has done




I never said the skins had a bad free agency period. Me thinks your getting a little defensive. I think the Bills made fools of themselves to pay dock that kind of money. I'm sure had you not mortgaged the farm last year, the midget would have matched the offer this year.

So what was the point to bring up Dockery? except he was a former Redskin? (and BTW again you were wrong his deal was on one of the lists)


What is there to be defensive about the Bills paying that price..... seriously

Also if Danny was going to pay that amount for Dockery, he would have.... as usual the Skins cap number doom senario is false...reported in tonight's WP article the Skins have redone a couple of contracts, and have $8.4 million of room currently, and can add an additional $4 million by cutting Hall which they are goiung to do all along, and Wynn a backup who also is expected to be cut, or take a paycut

So yet again, you are wrong

now you on the other hand have been extremely defensive about people posting anything bad about the Davis signing...getting so bent out of shape, you start attacking me for writing the articles I didn't write, putting down the Skins FO for last season (as if it is relevant to this thread somehow) get several key facts wrong in the process... and then complain that I didn't include the Dockery deal because he was a former Redskin as if it is some insult to the Redskins FO... when I didn't write the articles, and the Dockery deal as stated before was included in one of the articles :rotflmao:

So it is clear something is bothering about Davis's huge contract with the Pokes

because you don't want to hear anything bad about it, see anything bad about it, or want anyone to talk bad about it

that's right that is the Poke fan way :thumbsup:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/bubba9497/2958620see20hear20speak20no20evil20.jpg

[bubba9497]

Jerrah impressed Don Banks,

Davis to the Pokes was only #2 in his 10 moves he didn't like so far :laugh:


Sorry JJ, Dockery wasn't on his list :(


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/don_banks/03/06/liked.disliked/2.html


Ten Moves I Disliked



1. The Texans sign Ahman Green -- There would seem to me to be a big difference between the Green of the past three years and the one who was an offensive force in Green Bay from 2000-2003. Texans offensive coordinator Mike Sherman -- Green's former Packers head coach -- obviously sold Houston on a running back who just turned 30, with more than 1,800 career carries to his credit. The Texans will pay Green $8 million this year, the first season of a four-year, $23 million package. We can't see Green being enough of a difference-maker at this point to deserve that kind of generosity.

2. The Cowboys sign Leonard Davis -- At least Green has a track record the Texans could tout. The other team from Texas gave the largest signing bonus in team history to a guy who's more of a never-was than a has-been. Davis got $18.75 million guaranteed in his seven-year, $49.6 million deal, even though he was the biggest disappointment on one of the NFL's worst offensive lines in recent seasons. He might play guard in Dallas, he might play tackle. But he already played the free agency game to perfection

[tr4]

Look at the facts. The Cards have had a horrible O-line. A new coach comes in and brings along Russ Grim who is a great line coach. They know there is a problem with the offensive line. Grimm knows what he is doing and they let Davis go? That says a lot to me and I think most people who follow the NFL. :2cents:

still no where shows the reason why Leonard was let to test free agency. You think as fans living on the east coast we even know 90% of other factors that probably went into that decision to let him test free agency? Maybe Arizona wanted to be cheap and knew they would have to pay big bucks. Maybe it had nothing to do with his talen or play and that he had a bad relationship with the front office over there. To assume that he was not resigned because he sucks is what it is, just an assumption with no proof.
I am not trying to show any favoritism towards one team, but I will stand behind the comments I made all week while the three NFC east teams were chasing him. If you are a 240 pound LB or a 180 pound CB and you saw Leonard Davis pulling and coming right at you, I think the first reaction is going to be to hit the floor. Bringing that type of presence and mentality to an offensive line will help improve the play of everyone. Again consider who Davis will be replacing, Marco Rivera. Just got off his second back surgery in a year and not getting any younger. Rivera was one of the main problems with that line last year.

[Riggo#44]

To assume that he was not resigned because he sucks is what it is, just an assumption with no proof.

So to say he is magically going to turn it around b/c he was given $18.5 guarenteed money isn't an assumption?

We have plenty of proof, you're just not willing to accept it.

[bubba9497]

So to say he is magically going to turn it around b/c he was given $18.5 guarenteed money isn't an assumption?

We have plenty of proof, you're just not willing to accept it.

even if he plays good, it is still a bad move

the only way they can come out not looking like fools, is if somehow Davis becomes all pro every year of the contract. And allow fewer sacks during the life of the contract than he did last season alone

He is being paid the most money for any OL not a LT, and more than most LT in the league if not All OL in the league.

even then many will point out they could have got Davis for a lot less, because the Skins weren't going to give him anywhere near that amount, and the only other team interested was the Giants, and I doubt they would have forked up that much money either.

and Davis said he had no interest in NY... because his lazy butt was scared of Coughlins boot camps :laugh:

So if Dallas had been patient, they probably could have gotten him for about half of what they paid, maybe even less

[tr1]

He is being paid the most money for any OL not a LT, and more than most LT in the league if not All OL in the league.


And puke fans wonder why signing Columbo is so hard... :doh:

[Westbrook36]

If they sign Columbo, they improved their line.

Skins fan mantra of the past is if you are improving the team, who cares how much the guy got, remember?

[RedskinsNation]

My good friend who is a Cowboy fan emailed me and couldnt believe they got Leonard Davis. He said he was PRAYING that the Redskins would somehow sign him.

The only thing is perhaps Davis had some confidence/motivation issues in the desert...i mean playing for the Cards could kill your motivation/morale. He might feel inspired playing in Dallas.

[jrockster21]

If they sign Columbo, they improved their line.

Skins fan mantra of the past is if you are improving the team, who cares how much the guy got, remember?


They haven't though...Davis ain't that great.

[ptr77]

Minnesota's signing of Shiancoe to a huge deal belongs on this list.

Oh yeah, it sure does... That guy had no hands, was an avg blocker and never ever made the most of his oppurtunities. The giants used seubert and reugemer as blocking TEs, Shiancoe was just in when shockey couldn't limp onto the field basically (and some other 2 TE sets). He was a non factor and he got a contract that pays him like a top 10 TE.

[bubba9497]

Add Football outsiders to the Davis to Poke FA stinky list :laugh:


Leonard Davis, Dallas Cowboys

Contract: Seven years, $49.6 million, $18.5 million guaranteed. Yeah, this one had a lot of people wondering. And the numbers below put Davis in the vicinity of the dreaded Alex Barron Statistical Cluster, which is the rough equivalent of the Mendoza Line.

Games Started (Position) 16 of 16 (16 LT, Arizona Cardinals)

Positional Adjusted Line Yards: Left End, 4.08 (Rank: 17, League Average 4.12) Left Tackle, 3.96 (Rank: 26, League Average 4.37)

Blown Blocks: 7

Penalties: 10 (8 False Starts, 2 Offensive Holding)

Comments: It’s quite simple, really. If Leonard Davis is worth $18 million guaranteed, especially since initial reports indicate that the Cowboys will move him to the right side, I’m the President of the Skip Bayless Fan Club. In an offseason of big-money signings (some more ridiculous than others), this is the goofiest. If Hutch’s deal was the equivalent of the attack on Fort Sumter, Davis’s signing was the rubber chicken upside the head.


http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/footballoutsiders/2007/03/09/The_New_Age_of_Millionaire_Linemen