smoot wants to retire as a skin

[909997]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KP1kzR69OI&mode=related&search=

glad to see how he had a 2nd chance to fix his mistake.

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

WHat's kind of sad (though maybe people need to make the mistake to grow) is that we ALL KNEW THIS when it happened. Even Fred probably knew it somewhere. And don't get me wrong, there are players for whom one team is hardly any different than another and they thrive and are beloved wherever they might go. But sometimes, you do find that "home" and leaving only makes you appreciate it more.

I hope Fred is back until the end (or at least the reasonable productive end, lots of athletes have a year at the end where they are living off their name on another team>)

[MLSKINS]

Man could you imangine if Darrell Green went to another team. That would have been wild.

As for Smoot, he left, got some brain on a boat, lost his brain on the field, and he feels that the Redskins have the cure.

[Stone Cold]

Man could you imangine if Darrell Green went to another team. That would have been wild.

just stop right there...not funny, not hypothetical, not pondorous...just outright wrong


As for Smoot, he left, got some brain on a boat, lost his brain on the field, and he feels that the Redskins have the cure.


well...all i can say is...this has nowhere else to go but up

[Jofizz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0aiqKNwMZI&NR


good vid.

[SkinsGuy]

Man could you imangine if Darrell Green went to another team. That would have been wild.

As for Smoot, he left, got some brain on a boat, lost his brain on the field, and he feels that the Redskins have the cure.

The Redskins will only be the cure for Smoot if he completely dedicates himself to football and to the notion of being remembered for great play on the field.

Not for some incident on a boat.

Simply leaving Minnesota won't do that. He has to commit himself to being a good CB again.

[Jahbird]

I like it. By mentioning 28 he has big shoes to fill, but it is nice to see someone, anyone, repent their decision to leave. What I remember most about his days here was his propensity to make a big play with his current most injured body part...Not exactly smart, but heartfealt, when he did go out of the game for an injury his gutsy play probably was a positive example for his backups. Now if we could just drain the bay...Welcome back Fred, update smootsmack.com to include T.O.'s chump ass

[ChampSkinsFanatic]

Just call him Darrell Green lol

[CM916]

What I regret is that I don't have an old Smoot jersey in my closet and I missed the chance to grab a cheap one on ebay while it was still a "rumor". I'd have worn it everyday for the last two weeks.


They need to hurry up and either settle or drop the number dispute so Danny can cash in on people like me. We don't have the big name FA jerseys to sell this Spring so they need to roll out the Smoot jerseys.


Anyway, I wish more players would find their home and stick with it these days. It seems like the only guys who want to stick around are the 3rd string and special teams types who won't find a job elsewhere.

Here's to Smooter!:cheers:

[Teller]

Man could you imangine if Darrell Green went to another team. That would have been wild.

That probably would've hurt more than seeing Art Monk in green; and that's saying something. (I mean Jets green, I'm still in denial about the whole Eagles thing.)

As for Smoot, I'm all for second chances, and allowing a prodigal son to return home. Nibbs hit it right on the head. We knew Freddy was making a mistake. He's no-doubt learned a lot; and hopefully grown as a person for his troubles. I think we'll not only see a different player than we saw in Minnesota, but a better person too.

[Art]

Smoot was my favorite player when he left. He was probably our most consistently good defensive player at the time as well. I am happy he's back and hope he returns to the form he played with here for most of his time here.

[ceviker]

I love Smoot - I'm soooooooo happy he's back with the 'Skins

[Santana_Fan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0aiqKNwMZI&NR


good vid.


I love that video...cant wait for the season to come up!

[RedskinInExile]

"True or false: you'll pay Sean Taylor anything to be able to wear 21 again?"
"True, but he probably won't give it back"

Welcome back Smoot, I'm looking forward to more highlight reel picks

[jrfriedm]

What I regret is that I don't have an old Smoot jersey in my closet and I missed the chance to grab a cheap one on ebay while it was still a "rumor". I'd have worn it everyday for the last two weeks.


They need to hurry up and either settle or drop the number dispute so Danny can cash in on people like me. We don't have the big name FA jerseys to sell this Spring so they need to roll out the Smoot jerseys.


Anyway, I wish more players would find their home and stick with it these days. It seems like the only guys who want to stick around are the 3rd string and special teams types who won't find a job elsewhere.

Here's to Smooter!:cheers:

Yea, makes me wish I would've gotten one after he left, Redskins.com had authentic ones for like $40 dollars.

[Ingtar]

That video reminded me of how well Smoot caught the ball when it was in the air. That pick on the sidelines where he brushed both feet inbounds was a thing of beauty. welcome back again, Smoot!

[glikster04]

:D

cheers to you, fred smoot

[Skins4481]

Man could you imangine if Darrell Green went to another team. That would have been wild.

As for Smoot, he left, got some brain on a boat, lost his brain on the field, and he feels that the Redskins have the cure.

When did Smoot get "some brain on a boat"? I heard that he got some ass on a boat but I dont remember him receiving any other body parts.

[CommishDC]

He has grown...it's about coaches.....they will make sure he knows that BS isnt tolerated in Washington....

[scottb]

I think we forget that these players are still maturing during their brief careers. Nothing like a little of life's experience to foster some wisdom and perspective.

[REDMAN7]

I'm excited about good old Fred being back. When he left for Minny I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt he was going to regret the decision. I don't usually feel that way about players when they leave. I knew he belonged in DC. I also expect he will get back to his high level of play and end up starting before its all said and done. With his head and heart straightend out, I expect great things from the Smoot!

[fansince62]

who cares?

he's a mouth with avergae skills.

[mcarey032]

I honestly don't know if he is good enough to replace springs though. He is good, but not better than springs. Although springs has the major injury bug. I would say that I do like smoot a lot, but they had better either think about getting springs back into the fold or get another corner because we are going to need some depth at DB.

[umstew42]

just goes to show that money isn't everything...

[terpfan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0aiqKNwMZI&NR


good vid.
Damn, seems like forever ago we had anyone in the secondary make plays like that. We need a lot more of that this season!

[shagman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0aiqKNwMZI&NR


good vid.

That video is great!! I definitly think we will be much improved this year. I am so glad Smoot is back!

[Art]

While playing here Smoot's skills were well above average. He was a high performing corner who shut down his side of the field. His last year here he didn't give up a single touchdown pass and I'd have to double check, but I don't believe any big pass play over 40 yards went against him either.

He certainly played less well in Minnesota, but, it's just out of touch to ignore how well he did play here when he played here.

[fansince62]

well...historical reconstructionism notwithstanding...prepare for the following:

1) Smoot will be eaten alive in the Red Zone.

2) He will allow a sizable cushion which wideouts will exploit all day long with 5-15 yard slants. his recovery qickness isn't good enough to blanket receviers...we saw this during his first run before he dumped the Skins to chase money (core guy that he is!).

3) No blitzing capability (as others have noted).

4) He has obvious character issues....which some conveniently forget while opining about the Skins being a "team"...composed of "principled" players of "character".

he will be servicable...and that's about it. a cut above Wright. big whoop.

Smoot is strictly depth...not a fix.

[pjfootballer]

Smoot was my favorite player when he left. He was probably our most consistently good defensive player at the time as well. I am happy he's back and hope he returns to the form he played with here for most of his time here.

I agree, and I think the energy of the fans at FedEx will give him more incentive to play better. Smooter will be jacked up on opening day.

[pjfootballer]

[fansince62]well...historical reconstructionism notwithstanding...prepare for the following:

1) Smoot will be eaten alive in the Red Zone.

Maybe, Maybe not.


2) He will allow a sizable cushion which wideouts will exploit all day long with 5-15 yard slants. his recovery qickness isn't good enough to blanket receviers...we saw this during his first run before he dumped the Skins to chase money (core guy that he is!).

You've been watching Rogers too much.


3) No blitzing capability (as others have noted).

Hopefully we get the line straightend out and he won't have to blitz


4) He has obvious character issues....which some conveniently forget while opining about the Skins being a "team"...composed of "principled" players of "character".

he will be servicable...and that's about it. a cut above Wright. big whoop.

Smoot is strictly depth...not a fix.

I don't condone what he did, as there were many others involved, but he was never in any trouble his first time here and hopefully this was a 1 time deal.

If he's a cut above Wright, Rumph, etc, I'll take it. Maybe he'll be more comfortable in this defense than he was in the Minny cover 2. I'll take serviceable at this point over horrible.

[Ax]

I was a big Smoot fan, before he left. Never thought his skills were much better than average, but his heart, effort, and enthusiasm made him an above average player, in my book.

When he left us, it was kind of like your girlfriend leaving you for another guy. Then, AFTER he boots her ass out on the curb, all of a sudden she says she never stopped loving you, and wants to come back home. Yeah, you might take her back, (I wouldn't) but it'll take a long time to feel the same way about her again.

If ever.

[fuji869]

Glad to hear he wants to retire a Redskin!

Welcome Home Fred! :cheers:

[TaylorPickSix]

You gotta love the Smoot.

[Art]

Al,

Smoot is, by no means, a perfect player. He is, however, without your revisionist attempt to make him less able than he was here, a player who did, for us, a fanastic job. While it may be unreasonable to hope he returns to that form, it is far more unreasonable to forget what it was like when he was playing well, which he did in three of his four seasons here and MOST of the season he played less well.

Smoot's problem has always been the fact he lacks true, elite speed. So, he's the kind of corner who has good anticipation and plays intelligently, but, if he's at all knicked, or if age takes even the slightest bit from the speed he does have, he can struggle. We'll see if that's who he is now or not and we hope he is what he was before he left.

[SeanJefe87]

This was a homer idea but i changed the roster of madden to match what we have signed, turned it up to all madden an jacked up the AI to see what would happen and it was springs and smoot were starting fletch wow a beast in the middle also had rocky starting the coverage was nasty and the line got major pressure. i didnt even play i let the computer play both, i also did the same to the cowpukes and leonard davis was owned. heres to homerism :cheers:

[fansince62]

Al,

Smoot is, by no means, a perfect player. He is, however, without your revisionist attempt to make him less able than he was here, a player who did, for us, a fanastic job. While it may be unreasonable to hope he returns to that form, it is far more unreasonable to forget what it was like when he was playing well, which he did in three of his four seasons here and MOST of the season he played less well.

Smoot's problem has always been the fact he lacks true, elite speed. So, he's the kind of corner who has good anticipation and plays intelligently, but, if he's at all knicked, or if age takes even the slightest bit from the speed he does have, he can struggle. We'll see if that's who he is now or not and we hope he is what he was before he left.

not by any means revisionism. I went to the games and saw with my own eyes. he is - as I stated - servicable. he is not a #1 and who knows if he can hold down a #2. I do know that if Springs is toast we all better start worrying (or at least hoping that Rogers off season pursuit of excelllence bears fruit. I'll go out on a limb and state I'm expecting big things from Rogers next season). "fantastic" - whatever that means technically - is a stretch. btw......I note that his replacement (who eventually made the pro bowl) played for a Skins team that actually had a winning record.

Smoot is back here cuz the team was priced out of the market and familiarity means less transition time. better put....GW knows his weaknesses up front. he's a gap filler. I don't really care that much about Smoot as it is....hope he fills the gap well until we draft another CB in a year or two. I only hope that we can drop all the non-sense about "core Redskins" being "character" people. that manifestly is no longer the case. it's a myth we can all drop for now on so we can focus on building a team of athletes (and not "character types")!

[909997]

i think smoot is a better CB then rogers

lets hope smoot can take over springs #1 cb spot because hes aging

[Cliffmark1]

Did anyone catch when he said Shawn Springs talked him into coming back along with God? I didn't realize Springs had that much investment in this team, I wonder if he doesn't want to be traded as much as everyone says.

[Art]

not by any means revisionism. I went to the games and saw with my own eyes. he is - as I stated - servicable. he is not a #1 and who knows if he can hold down a #2. I do know that if Springs is toast we all better start worrying (or at least hoping that Rogers off season pursuit of excelllence bears fruit. I'll go out on a limb and state I'm expecting big things from Rogers next season). "fantastic" - whatever that means technically - is a stretch. btw......I note that his replacement (who eventually made the pro bowl) played for a Skins team that actually had a winning record.

Smoot is back here cuz the team was priced out of the market and familiarity means less transition time. better put....GW knows his weaknesses up front. he's a gap filler. I don't really care that much about Smoot as it is....hope he fills the gap well until we draft another CB in a year or two. I only hope that we can drop all the non-sense about "core Redskins" being "character" people. that manifestly is no longer the case. it's a myth we can all drop for now on so we can focus on building a team of athletes (and not "character types")!

Smoot wasn't a No. 1 here because we had Bailey, but, he was good enough here that most teams went MORE after Bailey than they went after Smoot. Why? Because they knew no matter how good Bailey was he was at least going against the best receiver they had while Smoot typically dominated lesser receivers against him.

As for the "character" issue I don't believe you've ever actually understood, the fact is, the character in question is actually improved by Smoot's return. Unfortunately, it's difficult to explain to you that the character you think is sought -- that of choir boys who spend their off hours in church -- isn't what anyone ever really talks about when we talk about character and a Gibbs team.

As a long-time fan, it would be nice not to have to teach you along with the youngsters the same, since, as a long-time fan, if you don't get it by now, you won't get it with any aid.

[Dirk Diggler]

not by any means revisionism. I went to the games and saw with my own eyes. he is - as I stated - servicable. he is not a #1 and who knows if he can hold down a #2. I do know that if Springs is toast we all better start worrying (or at least hoping that Rogers off season pursuit of excelllence bears fruit. I'll go out on a limb and state I'm expecting big things from Rogers next season). "fantastic" - whatever that means technically - is a stretch. btw......I note that his replacement (who eventually made the pro bowl) played for a Skins team that actually had a winning record.

........................

Smoot will be eaten alive in the Red Zone.

........................

He will allow a sizable cushion which wideouts will exploit all day long with 5-15 yard slants. his recovery qickness isn't good enough to blanket receviers...we saw this during his first run before he dumped the Skins to chase money (core guy that he is!).



Might want to switch to a thicker lens....I'd say your 0 for 3 here.

If you choose to believe we're getting the player who was inconsistent and lacked focus in Minnesota, ok. We may very well be getting that player. But if we're getting the guy who played here from 2001-2004, we should all be tickled. Smoot wasn't Deion but he was still very, very good. He was actually more productive than Bailey though he often lined up against the lesser WR. And he was especially good in 2004.

Smoot allowed 0 TD passes in 2004 for a defense that allowed the fewest points in the entire league. That's a fact. ESPN's KC Joyner who charts every snap of every game confirms this. I'd say that's a lot closer to "fantastic" than it is to "servicable." Only 2 other starting corners in 2004 could make that claim - Chris McCallister and Asante Samuel. He probaby allowed more yards than most of the top corners but he certainly wasn't "exploited all day long" or "eaten alive in the red zone." Consider that he saw 99 throws attempted his way while Springs saw 92. Even the great Champ Bailey saw 90 passes come his way in 2004.

Try not to act too surprised if this Smoot thing works out. I know I won't be.

[Art]

Dirk,

I have DOZENS of posts from the time he was here that confirm the fact Smoot was incredible here in his final year. But, Al claims to have watched the games, yet, can't remember the performance of the player he says he watched. Strange if you ask me.

[fansince62]

Smoot wasn't a No. 1 here because we had Bailey, but, he was good enough here that most teams went MORE after Bailey than they went after Smoot. Why? Because they knew no matter how good Bailey was he was at least going against the best receiver they had while Smoot typically dominated lesser receivers against him.

As for the "character" issue I don't believe you've ever actually understood, the fact is, the character in question is actually improved by Smoot's return. Unfortunately, it's difficult to explain to you that the character you think is sought -- that of choir boys who spend their off hours in church -- isn't what anyone ever really talks about when we talk about character and a Gibbs team.

As a long-time fan, it would be nice not to have to teach you along with the youngsters the same, since, as a long-time fan, if you don't get it by now, you won't get it with any aid.

what a hoot! yes...well derisively respond....the norm for Art...without ever providing a notion of what "character" is. let's leave it open ended so we can pick and chose which players to label as "character types" as well as provide a confortable buffer.

sorry ole pal....you aint ever gonna win this one. Ole Smootie and the boys went out and enjoyed a ripe ole time (while breaking the law as well?) that caused the Vikes to eventually shed all of them - that they couldn't perform worth a *rap only added to the reasoning. rationalize that all you want...had it been anyone but the Mouth we had signed...everyone on this board would be looking at the last 2 years and charging "I can't believe we signed this guy. What were they thinking?" But...yes...he had one good year (by your standards)....well I guess 1 out of every 6 years is enough for some folks! how appropriate for a message board to be hangin on a thread!

[fansince62]

Might want to switch to a thicker lens....I'd say your 0 for 3 here.

If you choose to believe we're getting the player who was inconsistent and lacked focus in Minnesota, ok. We may very well be getting that player. But if we're getting the guy who played here from 2001-2004, we should all be tickled. Smoot wasn't Deion but he was still very, very good. He was actually more productive than Bailey though he often lined up against the lesser WR. And he was especially good in 2004.

Smoot allowed 0 TD passes in 2004 for a defense that allowed the fewest points in the entire league. That's a fact. ESPN's KC Joyner who charts every snap of every game confirms this. I'd say that's a lot closer to "fantastic" than it is to "servicable." Only 2 other starting corners in 2004 could make that claim - Chris McCallister and Asante Samuel. He probaby allowed more yards than most of the top corners but he certainly wasn't "exploited all day long" or "eaten alive in the red zone." Consider that he saw 99 throws attempted his way while Springs saw 92. Even the great Champ Bailey saw 90 passes come his way in 2004.

Try not to act too surprised if this Smoot thing works out. I know I won't be.


yawn. 1 year out of 6? that's it? that's your argument?

one stat? that's it? that's your "balanced" analysis?

I attended the games fella. I saw with my own eyes year after year. he allows a big cushion and isn't quite quick enough to recover on slant plays....which were run not infrequently against him. he is NOT a blanket cover guy...he cannot blitz....he will be eaten alive in the red zone by the TOs and Plaxicos of the world....your stat....btw...doesn't show how many times he was beaten inside the red zone in ways that moved the ball forward into scoring position.

in the evnt...I don't care much about Smoot as I stated previously. I am more intersted in disbanding the notion...once and for all.....that this team is about character guys. that argument has been used to denigrate certain players. and no one can convince me that character doesn't include off-field activities (e.g., Mike Irvin) as well as locker-room presence, drive, lack of "quit"...etc.....

I hope Smoot works out also. but I'm not foolish enough to not see him for what he is: a #2 if we are lucky. a great nickel back if he can keep the character in check.

have at it! he's a real "gem"!

[tone_dubbz]

Unless he plays well enough to start the next couple of seasons, then maybe he'll have a chance

[deejaydana]

Archuleta wants to retire a Skin too from what I hear ;-)

[georgiaredskin]

Cool! Thanks a lot for the video.

:point2sky SMOOOOOOT!!!!

This to me is the most refreshing thing to look forward to this season. I know he had some tough times and fell off the blessed path in Minnesota-but I love his attitude now. Thanks for listening to God, Fred! :notworthy

[SPRINTxBOMB]

Wow... I cant believe this thread isnt locked yet.

[bricucci]

Obviously the Vikings thought he was a top flight corner when they signed him in 05. Smoot is a solid man cover corner who was asked to bulk up and play in a full time Cover 2 defense, which obviously wasn't his style. I'm thrilled he is coming back in the prime (only 27 years old) of his career. He is a huge upgrade over Kruddy Wright! If we draft right I have a sneaky feeling we could see this D make huge strides in 07!.

[Art]

what a hoot! yes...well derisively respond....the norm for Art...without ever providing a notion of what "character" is. let's leave it open ended so we can pick and chose which players to label as "character types" as well as provide a confortable buffer.

sorry ole pal....you aint ever gonna win this one. Ole Smootie and the boys went out and enjoyed a ripe ole time (while breaking the law as well?) that caused the Vikes to eventually shed all of them - that they couldn't perform worth a *rap only added to the reasoning. rationalize that all you want...had it been anyone but the Mouth we had signed...everyone on this board would be looking at the last 2 years and charging "I can't believe we signed this guy. What were they thinking?" But...yes...he had one good year (by your standards)....well I guess 1 out of every 6 years is enough for some folks! how appropriate for a message board to be hangin on a thread!

Al,

I can't explain to you what character means if you are so out of touch with the history of this team as to think it means Gibbs won't have young, wealthy professional athletes who have a good time from time to time. You'd almost think you were not at all familiar with Riggins or Manley or some of the great characters we've had in the past to think a little lewd behavior is anti-Gibbs.

It's open because it's obvious. The only one who doesn't get it is you. But, as a hint, let me tell you, the character sought has almost nothing at all to do with morality or drinking or womanizing or anything else. It has to do with the approach to the job, belief in your teammates, love of the organization and fans and those types of things. The quality, character guys associated with Gibbs aren't choir boys. They are, typically, guys you think of as "real pros". Which is why a guy like Arrington never fit with Gibbs. It's why Trotter didn't as the leader of the, "Let us do our own thing Georgie boy," line of linebacking.

As for Smoot, no, he didn't have one good year. He had three great years by ALL measure and one year where he struggled some early in the new scheme and late with an injury. I doubt you seriously can't remember just how good he was here. But, feel free to remind yourself. Read the archives for "Smoot" and see if you can figure it out yourself.

[GSF]

Smoot had an excellent season in '04, and wasn't too shabby in '03 either. Hopefully he'll be able to regain his form, and not hurt himself tackling ball-carriers.

Also, I think Smoot has shown the exact kind of character Gibbs is looking for, and it has nothing to do with what happened on that boat.

[fansince62]

Al,

I can't explain to you what character means if you are so out of touch with the history of this team as to think it means Gibbs won't have young, wealthy professional athletes who have a good time from time to time. You'd almost think you were not at all familiar with Riggins or Manley or some of the great characters we've had in the past to think a little lewd behavior is anti-Gibbs.

It's open because it's obvious. The only one who doesn't get it is you. But, as a hint, let me tell you, the character sought has almost nothing at all to do with morality or drinking or womanizing or anything else. It has to do with the approach to the job, belief in your teammates, love of the organization and fans and those types of things. The quality, character guys associated with Gibbs aren't choir boys. They are, typically, guys you think of as "real pros". Which is why a guy like Arrington never fit with Gibbs. It's why Trotter didn't as the leader of the, "Let us do our own thing Georgie boy," line of linebacking.

As for Smoot, no, he didn't have one good year. He had three great years by ALL measure and one year where he struggled some early in the new scheme and late with an injury. I doubt you seriously can't remember just how good he was here. But, feel free to remind yourself. Read the archives for "Smoot" and see if you can figure it out yourself.


1) 3 great years my patout. I'm willing to bet we can go back in the archives and not once, during those seasons, find posts of yours stating "Smoot is having a fantastic/great" year. In fact, I'm willing to bet there is likely a post or two in there where, in moments of unblindered clarity, you apply your razor like intelligence in a manner that honestly assesses Smoot's strengths and weaknesses and arrive at a conclusion other than "great".

2) Please....in an NFL debating the likes of PacMan Jones and a team that was concerned about ST's off-field activities.......you better believe Joe Gibbs and the entire staff are concerned about the moral qualities - the character - of their players. Heck...the NFL Players association has made this a visible issue. If you honestly think that JG has no qualms about what Smoot did - to the point of violating the law - then I think you have gone too far with the "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas"...mindset. the sort of thing Smoot was involved in DISRUPTED HIS TEAM. there were consequences. it all issued from activity that definitely reflects on his charcter. I can't believe that the same people who argue all the time about keeping things "in-house" on the principle that this is less disruptive for a team than going public don't accept that breaking the law and public lewdness don't have simialr impacts. it was a bad decission and it hurt his team. why the double standard around these parts?

[Leonard Washington]

"the lawd brought me back"....lol

[pjfootballer]

1) 3 great years my patout. I'm willing to bet we can go back in the archives and not once, during those seasons, find posts of yours stating "Smoot is having a fantastic/great" year. In fact, I'm willing to bet there is likely a post or two in there where, in moments of unblindered clarity, you apply your razor like intelligence in a manner that honestly assesses Smoot's strengths and weaknesses and arrive at a conclusion other than "great".

2) Please....in an NFL debating the likes of PacMan Jones and a team that was concerned about ST's off-field activities.......you better believe Joe Gibbs and the entire staff are concerned about the moral qualities - the character - of their players. Heck...the NFL Players association has made this a visible issue. If you honestly think that JG has no qualms about what Smoot did - to the point of violating the law - then I think you have gone too far with the "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas"...mindset. the sort of thing Smoot was involved in DISRUPTED HIS TEAM. there were consequences. it all issued from activity that definitely reflects on his charcter. I can't believe that the same people who argue all the time about keeping things "in-house" on the principle that this is less disruptive for a team than going public don't accept that breaking the law and public lewdness don't have simialr impacts. it was a bad decission and it hurt his team. why the double standard around these parts?

Sounds like you have a beef with his love boat involvment more than anything else. He wasn't the only one involved and wasn't the ringleader. I agree with you, we are not getting a #1 corner. But a cut above Wright and Rumph will help alot and I think Smoot will come back and play well. Notice I said well, not great, not a probowler, not superman.

[Art]

Al, I'm losing respect for you. Everyone here has thought well of Smoot for a LONG, LONG time.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6457&highlight=Smoot

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1989&highlight=Smoot

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=471&highlight=Smoot

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3167&highlight=Smoot

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4242&highlight=Smoot

The one above was a "bad" game assessment.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6761&highlight=Smoot

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3710&highlight=Smoot

Nice one there I think :).

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=368&highlight=Smoot

First time it was clearly discussed that Bailey gets thrown at more than Smoot. All these STILL rookie year. I'll move to his weakest year.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11331&highlight=Smoot

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14442&highlight=Smoot

First struggling signs.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=156063&postcount=13

After early struggles.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30868&highlight=Smoot

Familiar discussion :).

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37285&highlight=Smoot

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41242&highlight=Smoot

Things are turning on Bailey. This one was me starting a post, but threads at the time were going against Bailey in increasing numbers.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41955&highlight=Smoot

Bailey's poor play still has backers, but we see more turning on him. I am the leader on the Smoot love.

Great fun debate here:

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41928&highlight=Smoot

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42784&highlight=Smoot

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42828&highlight=Smoot

Smoot at his most loved stretch on the board.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70490&highlight=Smoot

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74904&highlight=Smoot

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77620&highlight=Smoot

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79275&highlight=Smoot

The point, Al, is, I and many others have long been of the mind Smoot's play here was very good. I only bothered to pick out a sample of conversation that I took part in to remind you as you may have been away and forgotten, but, at least we know I'm not making up our thoughts on Smoot, but you were.

[thesubmittedone]

^^ Wow... putting the pwnage you just applied aside, reading some of those older threads made me wish I was here during those times. It seems like most of it is good, knowledge-based debating going on. What happened here?

[fansince62]

Al, I'm losing respect for you. Everyone here has thought well of Smoot for a LONG, LONG time.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6457&highlight=Smoot

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1989&highlight=Smoot

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=471&highlight=Smoot

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3167&highlight=Smoot

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4242&highlight=Smoot

The one above was a "bad" game assessment.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6761&highlight=Smoot

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3710&highlight=Smoot

Nice one there I think :).

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=368&highlight=Smoot

First time it was clearly discussed that Bailey gets thrown at more than Smoot. All these STILL rookie year. I'll move to his weakest year.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11331&highlight=Smoot

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14442&highlight=Smoot

First struggling signs.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=156063&postcount=13

After early struggles.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30868&highlight=Smoot

Familiar discussion :).

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37285&highlight=Smoot

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41242&highlight=Smoot

Things are turning on Bailey. This one was me starting a post, but threads at the time were going against Bailey in increasing numbers.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41955&highlight=Smoot

Bailey's poor play still has backers, but we see more turning on him. I am the leader on the Smoot love.

Great fun debate here:

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41928&highlight=Smoot

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42784&highlight=Smoot

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42828&highlight=Smoot

Smoot at his most loved stretch on the board.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70490&highlight=Smoot

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74904&highlight=Smoot

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77620&highlight=Smoot

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79275&highlight=Smoot

The point, Al, is, I and many others have long been of the mind Smoot's play here was very good. I only bothered to pick out a sample of conversation that I took part in to remind you as you may have been away and forgotten, but, at least we know I'm not making up our thoughts on Smoot, but you were.

hmmmm....losing respect over a discussion on Fred Smoot...how will I ever sleep tonight?

good for you. I know what I saw and he is not a number 1 CB. what does "very good" mean? he has been beaten on fast cutting slant plays repeatedly - I saw it over and over and over. he doesn't have great recovery quickness. It will be interesting to watch whether he still turns his back when recievers make quick cuts on him. I saw him allow a large cushion even in the Red Zone that was exploited. I saw him manage an average - at best - blitzing capability. for a small man he tackled well at the line of scrimmage. he has good hands. he is always in the vicinity of a pass - if not on top of it. he doesn't appear to have any "quit" in him.

sidestep the character issue all you want. my goal isn't to lambast Smoot for this anyway. it has all along been to shut up anyone who selectively uses the character matter to belittle the unfavored player of the hour. I see it for the fraudulent purposes it has been used for......let's get rid of the concept once and for all as it manifestly is not a guiding principle for the Skins...except in the very arbitrary and intentionally limitted way you chose to use it.

[Art]

good for you. I know what I saw and he is not a number 1 CB. what does "very good" mean? he has been beaten on fast cutting slant plays repeatedly - I saw it over and over and over. he doesn't have great recovery quickness. It will be interesting to watch whether he still turns his back when recievers make quick cuts on him. I saw him allow a large cushion even in the Red Zone that was exploited. I saw him manage an average - at best - blitzing capability. for a small man he tackled well at the line of scrimmage. he has good hands. he is always in the vicinity of a pass - if not on top of it. he doesn't appear to have any "quit" in him.

sidestep the character issue all you want. my goal isn't to lambast Smoot for this anyway. it has all along been to shut up anyone who selectively uses the character matter to belittle the unfavored player of the hour. I see it for the fraudulent purposes it has been used for......let's get rid of the concept once and for all as it manifestly is not a guiding principle for the Skins...except in the very arbitrary and intentionally limitted way you chose to use it.

Al, I'm sorry, but you I've seen you repeatedly over the years suggest other people in the conversation have applied revisionism to their beliefs. Time and again you've forced me to show you quoted sections that would suggest that's not at all the case for anyone but you. You either need to stop doing that to people, or, you need to do more than say, "very good" when time is taken to discredit your insulting form of debate.

I fully appreciate YOU have views on Smoot YOU may not have changed. Saying that is fine. Debating the finer points is fine. But, with this issue, as with so many I've seen from you, you take it beyond what you think to say anyone who says different didn't believe what THEY are saying a short time before. And you simply refuse to believe them when they tell you they have long felt that way. It's beginning to be the ONLY thing you do in debate. I know you are fond of characterizing qualities of my debating style and that is good. So, I hope you take what I'm telling you to heart. You are beginning to get annoying with your constant refusal to believe people when they tell you what they think.

Honest. I know better than you how I've felt about Smoot for years and what I've said about Smoot for years. If you simply can't believe it, either disprove it, or, absent time, work with the presumption the person you're talking to has a strong grasp on his own views, then, debate the differences OF the views, rather than your constant unwillingness to believe they ever existed beyond the thread you're engaged in.

As to your views on Smoot, assuming you held those beliefs all along -- see how I grant that to you -- then, with hope, the small snap of history I showed you will help you educate yourself as to what most people saw and you missed, as, clearly, you are in the extreme minority as to remembering how he played here.

The character issue is one you've long had trouble understanding here. You've long demonstrated you simply don't get why others think it's important and you always rally to the person being attacked for a lack of character as well as attacking those people don't hate for having a lack of character. The problem, as I've clearly defined, is you don't understand the conversation everyone else is having.

Let me put it this way. Lavar Arrington never had any issues in public like Smoot had. And, from a character standpoint for a football team, Joe Gibbs and just about every Redskin fan would prefer the character of Smoot to that of Arrington. Knowing how that can be possible, again, requires you to fully grasp the character Gibbs seeks doesn't come from the Bible, as you repeatedly seem to believe.

And, Al, to address your edit, you're not losing respect from me over your incorrect memories and assessment of Smoot as a player while he was here. You're losing it from me because you have TWO things you even know how to counter someone with in a debate.

1. Deny they ever felt they way they are telling you and attempt to shame them for changing their view.

2. Attempt to call them hypocritical on the "character" issue while never realizing you are the only one who doesn't actually GET what the conversation about character is.

You are JUST those two things here. You offer almost nothing else. I'm one big dick, no doubt about it, but, hell, at least I'm versatile :).

[fansince62]

Art...I don't begrudge you your views on Smoot...have at it! If you believed all along that he is a "great/fantastic" player...have at it again! An early post of yours referred specifically to Smoot playing to high levels in one specific year. But even if you feel he is top tier.....again...more power to ya. I disagree and have laid out why I think so.

As for the character issue...you don't get it....which doesn't surprise me since one of your most endearing charcter traits is a bullheaded committment to your own sense of righteousness, certitude and glee in verbal knife fighting. nice debating trick turning the dime but it won't pass muster - I know full well what character is and WHAT I THINK MATTERS IRRESPECTIVE OF YOUR "MAJORITY THINKS" LEGERDEMAIN. and please, speaking of perverting the facts, I have never once referred to Joe Gibbs, the bible and Smoot. it's not that character doesn't count. I know full well that it does. it's how the term is used.

art...you are brilliant. but please...don't lecture me on proprieties when your whole style is larded with irrelevant ad hominem assaults on the target de jours. I will just have to suffer being almost nothing on ES...secure in the knowledge that you are even less.....AS A MATTER OF CHARACTER!

[Art]

Art...I don't begrudge you your views on Smoot...have at it! If you believed all along that he is a "great/fantastic" player...have at it again! An early post of yours referred specifically to Smoot playing to high levels in one specific year. But even if you feel he is top tier.....again...more power to ya. I disagree and have laid out why I think so.

As for the character issue...you don't get it....which doesn't surprise me since one of your most endearing charcter traits is a bullheaded committment to your own sense of righteousness, certitude and glee in verbal knife fighting. nice debating trick turning the dime but it won't pass muster - I know full well what character is and WHAT I THINK MATTERS IRRESPECTIVE OF YOUR "MAJORITY THINKS" LEGERDEMAIN. and please, speaking of perverting the facts, I have never once referred to Joe Gibbs, the bible and Smoot. it's not that character doesn't count. I know full well that it does. it's how the term is used.

art...you are brilliant. but please...don't lecture me on proprieties when your whole style is larded with irrelevant ad hominem assaults on the target de jours. I will just have to suffer being almost nothing on ES...secure in the knowledge that you are even less.....AS A MATTER OF CHARACTER!

Yes, Al, in one of the early posts above I might have suggested Smoot played great in one of his years. That's because he'd only played two. As the years, and posts, compiled, the extension of his fine play kind of mirrored itself in my comments about his fine play. Indeed you disagree. To your credit, in two or three of the posts I read picking out a handful of posts on the topic, you did seem consistent in your views on Smoot, so, I do not begrudge you the difference of opinion, merely, even NOW, in this post you simply can't believe everyone else ALWAYS felt differently. Ok. Most everyone else :).

I've not seen anyone in the character conversations BUT you use the term incorrectly. You counter Smoot's lack of character because he took a boat ride without ever realizing that's not the character anyone's talking about. In fact, it MAY just be the kind of character Gibbs wants. If you want that explained, ask, and I'll try :). I believe, though, Gibbs realizes he stripped too many personalities out of the locker room and needs to breathe some life back in. Smoot does that in a way that's hard to capture verbally. He just raises the feeling of those around him. He's contagious.

More, back to character, Arrington lacked it based on how Arrington presented himself and acted. Smoot has it based on the same. Try to figure out how the boat ride AND that statement can both be true. When you do, it'll occur to you what everyone else means by character and why you're the only one using it incorrectly.

[TheU2689]

Smoooooooot baby, he was my favorite player when he was here, along side Darrell Green and Champ Bailey. We had the best DB's in the NFL back then. Im glad to see he is tryin to fill the shoes of Darrell Green, but hes got some large shoes to fill. But for him to come out and say he is stayin here till he retires, only makes me love him more.

Its good to see that Carlos Rogers is going to train this offseason with Darrell Green and Loud Mouth Deion Sanders, but as much as i hate Deion, this is awesome. Carlos can learn alot from training with those 2. They are 2 future hall of famers.

But welcome back Smooooooot, and cant wait to see you out on the field for us again

[BigRay]

Just glad to see him back where he really belongs he should have never left. Hopefully he can put all the bad stuff behind him and perform well to help this team win some games.