NFL.com: Kirwin's mock draft v.2.0

[Oldskool]

http://nfl.com/draft/story/10056634

Mock draft No. 2


By Pat Kirwan
NFL.com Senior Analyst




Note: Pat Kirwan will update his mock draft on Mondays between now and the April 28-29 draft.
Kirwan's mock draft: March 4
(March 12, 2007) -- As I said last week, it is a little early for mock drafts. But with each passing week, the free-agent signings and the latest information coming out of the Pro Day workouts clear up the draft picture even more. There is no doubt the number of signings at the running back position has changed the draft needs for a number of teams. With all the action of the past week, I have nine changes to the first-round mock draft. Within a few days, there will be more changes especially if a team like the Bills or Packers sign a veteran running back or a linebacker like Cato June takes an offer.

1. Oakland: JaMarcus Russell, QB, LSU -- The Raiders have lots of needs, but as long as quarterback is one of them, they have to respond by selecting the guy with the great deep ball. I could see a move down, especially now that Cleveland will not need Adrian Peterson and someone was counting on OT Joe Thomas or WR Calvin Johnson.

2. Detroit: Brady Quinn, QB, Notre Dame -- The popular opinion everywhere is that I'm wrong on this pick. But Jon Kitna is old, Josh McCown wasn't given any chance to play last year and is scheduled to make more money than Kitna. Quinn has 46 collegiate starts, 95 touchdown passes and over 11,000 yards. The Lions need him and their Joey Harrington experiment is not a reason to pass.

3. Cleveland: Joe Thomas, OT, Wisconsin -- The signing of Jamal Lewis turned the top of this draft upside down. Thomas reminds me of the year Phil Savage took Jonathan Ogden with the third pick in the draft. Thomas is a 10-year starter, but the Browns still need a QB.

4. Tampa Bay: Calvin Johnson, WR, Georgia Tech -- If the Bucs can stay in the No. 4 slot and still get Johnson then they've hit a homerun. Whether the QB is Jeff Garcia, Chris Simms or Jake Plummer, they will all know who the No. 1 target is in Tampa.

5. Arizona: Gaines Adams, DE, Clemson -- I could see the Cardinals moving up for Joe Thomas or moving down a slot or two to take Levi Brown. But unless they have a dealmaker in the building, they stay put and improve the pass rush.

6. Washington: Alan Branch, NT, Michigan -- Washington will consider the best pass rusher at this spot, but Branch is rare and can move for a big man. He may make the defensive ends better by just being on the field. The NFC East wants to run the ball and Branch is the best run stuffer.

7. Minnesota: Jamaal Anderson, DE Arkansas -- The longer I study the draft, the more I think the Vikings will have to move up for Brady Quinn or sit here and take a good pass rusher. This is the year to get a guy who can get after the QB.

8. Houston: Levi Brown, OT, Penn State -- Signing Ahman Green to run the ball addresses a need and Brown addresses another big need. He plugs in at left tackle and plays for 10-plus years. The Texans say they will not move up for Quinn so this is the best choice right now.

9. Miami: Amobi Okoye, DT, Louisville -- A young, quick as a hiccup DT, who can disrupt the pass protections and run-block schemes is just what the Dolphins need with aging Zach Thomas, Jason Taylor and Joey Porter leading the way.

10. Atlanta: LaRon Landry, S, LSU -- The talk this week is that Landry could be gone by the 10th pick now that RB Adrian Peterson has watched free agent signings affect his status. But I think the Falcons get their man.

11. San Francisco: Adam Carriker, DE, Nebraska -- A great fit for Mike Nolan and his desire to build a solid 3-4 defense with high character players. Carriker plugs in as a rookie and holds his spot for 8-10 years.

12. Buffalo: Adrian Peterson, RB, Oklahoma -- The Bills need a back more than anything now that Willis McGahee has been traded. They may find a player in free agency or a trade, but for now this makes perfect sense.

13. St. Louis: Leon Hall, CB, Michigan -- Lots of debate on the Rams pick this weekend by club executives studying this everyday. It may not be Hall, but it should be a cornerback.

14. Carolina: Patrick Willis, LB, Mississippi -- Some people have him in the second round, but the 240-pound backer ran a 4.51 and the Panthers need linebacker help. No more worrying about Dan Morgan and his injuries.

15. Pittsburgh: Paul Posluszny, LB, Penn State -- A Steeler-type guy with football intelligence who can make plays no matter what scheme he eventually winds up in.

16. Green Bay: Marshawn Lynch, RB, California -- The Pack needs a back and this guy can catch the ball as well as run with it. I could see Green Bay in a serious discussion about TE Greg Olsen at this spot.

17. Jacksonville: Reggie Nelson, S, Florida -- Deon Grant is gone so the Jaguars are in need of a starting safety. There will be discussions about other safeties, like Michael Griffin, but the personal workout by Nelson the other day should make him the choice.

18. Cincinnati: Darrelle Revis, CB, Pittsburgh -- The Bengals need help on defense, but the top two tackles are gone as well as the top two safeties. Revis can be a playmaker, but another CB could beat him out for this spot.

19. Tennessee: Dwayne Jarrett, WR, USC -- Drew Bennett is gone and offensive coordinatory Norm Chow needs a few of his 'own guys'. Jarrett scores touchdowns and is a very big target in the red zone.

20. N.Y. Giants: Chris Houston, CB, Arkansas -- Houston has moved up the draft board every week after talking to scouts and personnel people. The Giants need him and if he's still available after everyone finishes watching his game tapes this would be a great spot.

21. Denver: Jarvis Moss, DE, Florida -- The Broncos lost out in their pursuit of Patrick Kerney so Moss makes some sense at this spot.

22. Dallas: Michael Griffin, S, Texas -- I think the Cowboys will look at the best corners, safeties and wide receivers at this spot. With three or four solid wide receivers and at least two defensive backs left with first-round grades, Jerry Jones will get a good player.

23. Kansas City: Ted Ginn Jr., WR, Ohio State -- If Ginn does fall here, then it will be a big day for the Chiefs offense. He will push the field and open up underneath lanes for TE Tony Gonzalez.

24. New England: Anthony Spencer, OLB/DE, Purdue -- I know the Pats bought OLB Adalius Thomas, but there is no reason to think the Pats have enough outside rush players. I could see them package up this pick, along with No. 28 and move up in the draft.

25. N.Y. Jets: Greg Olsen, TE, Miami -- The Jets need help in the secondary and on the defensive line, but a tight end like Olsen will go a long way to improving the offense with a vertical threat down the middle of the field.

26. Philadelphia: Aaron Ross, CB, Texas -- The Eagles need a corner and a safety to go a long with a top flight outside linebacker. By midweek they should have a wide receiver in the fold and maybe even an outside linebacker, which make a corner like Ross a solid pick.

27. New Orleans: Charles Johnson, DE, Georgia -- By now the Saints may be thinking it's time to move up if they really want TE Greg Olsen. If they stay at No. 27, the Miami tight end will be off the board and the Saints may well settle for a DE like Johnson or a corner. The problem is, the top four corners will be gone by this time.

28. New England: Marcus McCauley, CB, Fresno State -- Belichick has gone to the Fresno players in the past and this guy will help a Patriots secondary that needs fresh talent.

29. Baltimore: Ryan Kalil, C, USC -- The Ravens don't need RB Michael Bush so it would be smart to take the best outside linebacker to help replace Adalius Thomas or take Kalil and not worry about the center position for the next 10 years.

30. San Diego: Robert Meacham, WR, Tennessee -- The Chargers need an injection of young receivers and Meacham looked fast and smooth at the Combine. If he falls to San Diego, this would be a steal for the team. If he doesn't, then another great choice would be Dwayne Bowe, if available.

31. Chicago: Dwayne Bowe, WR, LSU -- Chicago could really use OT Joe Staley, but Bowe should have a higher grade. Lots of good talent still left in this draft.

32. Indianapolis: Lawrence Timmons, LB, Florida -- It would not surprise me to see Colts GM Bill Polian look at a defensive tackle, cornerback, safety, or an outside linebacker here. Does he grab Timmons or Jon Beason at OLB? A DT like Tank Tyler or a corner like Damien Hughes? I think the best OLB on the board wins out as the replacement for Cato June.

[bubba9497]

no way no how

[mistertim]

It lists Branch as an NT. I guess we are running a 3-4 now apparently. I really hope we don't pick Branch over Anderson. :doh:

[Oldskool]

no way no how

:laugh: never say never, Bubba.

[Oldskool]

It lists Branch as an NT. I guess we are running a 3-4 now apparently. I really hope we don't pick Branch over Anderson. :doh:

NT is as much as a technique as it is a description of the size of the individual in question.

You can run a 4-3 with a NT/DT combo.

[Jimbo]

If Adrian Peterson drops to #6, we'll be trading down with somebody.

Anybody got the scoop on Todd McShay's latest mock?

[the burgundy and gold]

No way the Skins take Fatty Branch ... he will be a collossal bust! Cleveland will be forced to take Petersen, dropping Thomas to Tampa. Skins will wind up with Calvin Johnson in their laps! I guarantee it.


can you imagine the trade offers we would get if that happened??

[bschurm]

I have watched the debate over drop down for more picks or draft at #6 and have refrained from giving my input because I have a limited knowledge of what goes on in the NFL.


Well I must weigh in at this point and say I don't want Anderson, Branch or Adams if we can trade down get more picks and pick up the likes of Carriker or Okoye (Okoye more so). These guys are all of very similar ability and we need more picks.

So if the front office is listening, I have never played football and I have never taken the time to really scout anybody, but if the 5 D-linemen who are being discussed are all projected in the top 15, then this is a crap shoot and picking any one of these 5 can be a bust so why not get the extra shots at the draft.

[Mad Mike]

no way no how


What? Branch?

As good as a DE may sound, think of our worst beatings last year. Teams ran over us like a truck through tissue paper. If we cant stop the run, people won't bother even trying to pass. And you know Branch would take a double team and make our ends that much more effective.

That said, If they can draft DE and still bulk up the middle somehow, I won't complain. :-)


Or was that a statement about the mock in general?

[Cdowwe]

If Johnson somehow dropped to 6, wed be in a very very sweet position.

[26fan4life]

http://nfl.com/draft/story/10056634

Mock draft No. 2


By Pat Kirwan
NFL.com Senior Analyst





6. Washington: Alan Branch, NT, Michigan -- Washington will consider the best pass rusher at this spot, but Branch is rare and can move for a big man. He may make the defensive ends better by just being on the field. The NFC East wants to run the ball and Branch is the best run stuffer.



.

I believe I've been arguing both of these points. Branch is the perfect "quick fix" for our defense

[Art]

I'd love Branch. We have enough at defensive end with Carter's improved play, Wynn, Daniels and Evans. Where we really got pushed around was inside when Salave'a got hurt and Griffin was dinged and Golston played well in stretches, but was not able to hold the line. A guy like Branch does what Salave'a did two years ago. Frees up Griffin to dominate while having the ability to make plays.

To me, he's the ideal player for us. We have a new middle linebacker who can be kept clean to flow. We good experience and depth if you add Branch along the defensive line. I believe his top end is higher than anyone in the draft along the line, though I do understand the love for Anderson.

We were an incredibly fine pressure defense for two years with Wynn and Daniels as our primary ends. With Carter in the mix we can be as well if we're better up the gut.

[bubba9497]

What? Branch?

As good as a DE may sound, think of our worst beatings last year. Teams ran over us like a truck through tissue paper. If we cant stop the run, people won't bother even trying to pass. And you know Branch would take a double team and make our ends that much more effective.

That said, If they can draft DE and still bulk up the middle somehow, I won't complain. :-)


Or was that a statement about the mock in general?


over hyped, played in the Big Ten ..... need a DE more

also reports say the Skins were not impressed with him at the combine

[emor09]

over hyped, played in the Big Ten ..... need a DE more

also reports say the Skins were not impressed with him at the combine

thank god, i cant stand branch...he is a bunkley twin

[SkinsTillIDie]

I'd love Branch. We have enough at defensive end with Carter's improved play, Wynn, Daniels and Evans. Where we really got pushed around was inside when Salave'a got hurt and Griffin was dinged and Golston played well in stretches, but was not able to hold the line. A guy like Branch does what Salave'a did two years ago. Frees up Griffin to dominate while having the ability to make plays.

To me, he's the ideal player for us. We have a new middle linebacker who can be kept clean to flow. We good experience and depth if you add Branch along the defensive line. I believe his top end is higher than anyone in the draft along the line, though I do understand the love for Anderson.

We were an incredibly fine pressure defense for two years with Wynn and Daniels as our primary ends. With Carter in the mix we can be as well if we're better up the gut.

I agree with everything here. We were inconsistent all season against the run, and Lemar Marshall could rarely make an impact without having to shed lineman. Gregg Williams' defense is predicated on stopping the run first and foremost, forcing 3rd and 7s instead of 3rd and 3s. And with Marcus Washington healthy and Rocky McIntosh a legitimate pass rushing force on the opposite side, as opposed to the laughable impact that Holdman had, we should be able to get good pressure from the outside with Branch and Griffin effectively occupying the middle.

With Griffin getting up there in age and having been nicked up constantly over the previous few years, Branch does serve as the "quick fix" of sorts, as well as a long-term need. Golston and Montgomery could prove solid, sure, but that is far from a certainty. They would be best served within a reserve, situational role, which in turn can help keep Griffin fresh and healthy. For if Griffin were to go down this season and we drafted a defensive end instead, we would find ourselves in serious trouble against the run.

Alan Branch isn't the sexy pick, but he is the smartest and the safest, in my opinion.

[jrockster21]

I'd love Branch. We have enough at defensive end with Carter's improved play, Wynn, Daniels and Evans. Where we really got pushed around was inside when Salave'a got hurt and Griffin was dinged and Golston played well in stretches, but was not able to hold the line. A guy like Branch does what Salave'a did two years ago. Frees up Griffin to dominate while having the ability to make plays.

To me, he's the ideal player for us. We have a new middle linebacker who can be kept clean to flow. We good experience and depth if you add Branch along the defensive line. I believe his top end is higher than anyone in the draft along the line, though I do understand the love for Anderson.

We were an incredibly fine pressure defense for two years with Wynn and Daniels as our primary ends. With Carter in the mix we can be as well if we're better up the gut.


:applause: :applause: :applause:

Well said!!

[TheREALJBird]

Peterson falling to 12? This guy is a few sandwiches short of a picnic basket

[Bangee7]

Using a #6 on a DT who doesn't pressure is really underselling the value of the pick.

I understand the need, but we got Joe S. off the street and he did fine for 2 years.
The guy was out of football and came in and plugged holes.

I could care less if we draft Branch or not...just not at #6.

[sleazye]

if you had asked me 2 weeks ago, i would have said anderson. the moer that i've thought about it, the more i agree that branch is the man to get (if we don't trade down). Branch Golston and Big Joe Suave would be a nice team, and don't forget Joe's getting old. This guy could be a huge stopgap for our defensive line.

For the record though, I say we trade down and get more picks.

[HEavyJumbo85]

over hyped, played in the Big Ten ..... need a DE more

also reports say the Skins were not impressed with him at the combine

not sure who we're going to take there, but I'd certainly like Branch.

Also as some may recall last season reports said that Chris Clemons was a legitimate contender for the Starting weak side job. :rolleyes:

A lot of posturing goes on this time of year, best not to believe anything until it happens.

Either way, I hope we can grab a guy that can play right away. We don't need another "developmental" early round pick, especially not on defense.

[Tastes Like Chicken]

I agree about needing a DT but I prefer Okoye to Branch, even if we stay put.

Branch has b u s t written all over him, and Okoye will be better than him in 2 years (at which point he'll be 21 and maybe 320 pounds).

If we can move down a couple slots, nab Okoye and another pick, all the better.

[Shadowplay]

over hyped, played in the Big Ten ..... need a DE more

also reports say the Skins were not impressed with him at the combine

Wow that's great analysis. Don't give up your day job.

[craig g]

Anybody got the scoop on Todd McShay's latest mock?

1. Oakland Raiders (2-14)

Projected pick: +JaMarcus Russell, QB, LSU
Georgia Tech WR Calvin Johnson will be tempting if a deal is made to move WR Randy Moss between now and the draft. Otherwise, the Raiders have a glaring hole at the quarterback position. While some concerns have risen regarding Russell's work ethic, owner Al Davis should still favor the strong-armed Russell over Notre Dame QB Brady Quinn.

2. Detroit (3-13)

Projected pick: Brady Quinn, QB, Notre Dame
Quinn moving up six spots in this mock has more to do with the Lions than Quinn's actual draft stock. By addressing needs at running back (Tatum Bell and T.J. Duckett), offensive tackle (George Foster) and defensive end (Dewayne White) via free agency, the Lions have the flexibility to pull the trigger on a future franchise quarterback with this pick. The Lions could also get a blockbuster trade offer for the No. 2 overall pick, which would be the best-case scenario considering their abundance of needs.

3. x-Cleveland (4-12)

Projected pick: +Adrian Peterson, RB, Oklahoma
The Browns would have a tough decision to make between Peterson and Wisconsin OT Joe Thomas in this scenario. Despite the fact the Browns signed free agent RB Jamal Lewis recently, I still think Peterson is the pick. Lewis has loads of mileage on his legs and the team only signed him to a one-year deal. The veteran back could split carries with Peterson, which would give the rookie a year to get acclimated before taking over as the full-time starter in 2008 -- much like the Corey Dillon/Laurence Maroney situation with the Patriots last season.

4. x-Tampa Bay (4-12)

Projected pick: +Calvin Johnson, WR, Georgia Tech
The Bucs have other more pressing needs but it won't be easy for general manager Bruce Allen and coach Jon Gruden to pass on the draft's most dynamic offensive weapon.

5. Arizona (5-11)

Projected pick: Joe Thomas, OT, Wisconsin
This is the best-case scenario for a Cardinals team in desperate need of an upgrade at offensive tackle. Thomas is the premier offensive line talent in the 2007 class and he's ready to start immediately.

6. Washington (5-11)

Projected pick: Gaines Adams, DE, Clemson
Adams is the perfect fit for a Redskins defense that set a team record for the fewest sacks in a season (19) in 2006. The 6-foot-5, 258-pound end ran the fastest 40 time of all the defensive linemen at the combine and also notched 29 career sacks at Clemson.

[HeHateMe]

If Dallas can land Landry (no chance), Nelson (maybe) or Griffin (probably), I'll be very satisfied.

[TotalRecall]

Nah, we are destined to trade down. I would like a DE or DT and CB Chris Houston.

[ceviker]

over hyped, played in the Big Ten ..... need a DE more

also reports say the Skins were not impressed with him at the combine

I also agree that we need a DE more. Not only that, I'd rather draft Okolye than Branch - Branch is over-hyped. Okolye is a monster in the making.

[26fan4life]

Wow that's great analysis. Don't give up your day job.

haha that really cracked me up man. thanks. :cheers:

[Hauss]

I have watched the debate over drop down for more picks or draft at #6 and have refrained from giving my input because I have a limited knowledge of what goes on in the NFL.

That's never stopped anyone on this board. I wouldn't mind having Branch next to Griffin. I think Big Joe is just about finished. When our defense was in the top ten--we were able to stop the run.

[SkinsTillIDie]

I also hope that people realize that Okoye, because of his age, will get three monster contracts in his career. He will get his first as a high first rounder, his second after 5 years when he is just 24, and then likely another one four or five years later, when he is 28 or 29. And as a five year veteran at the age of 24, he will, if he fulfills his potential, likely require the richest DT contract in the league.

Not that I guess this really matters much come draft day, just something to think about... Also, another thing, why do so many people here claim that Alan Branch has "bust" written all over him?

[Hauss]

[QUOTE=Gregpeck99]No way the Skins take Fatty Branch ...QUOTE]

I will give you a dollar if you call him that to his face. :laugh:

[Jimbo]

I'd be happy with any of the top Defensive Linemen whether it be Adams, Anderson, Branch or Okoye. We HAVE to get stronger on the D-Line.

[NoItAllRS]

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Some of you guys just crack me up! Alan Branch is a beast. The guy was only the anchor to the number 1 run D in the nation. And you think he's not worth our 6th pick. He would make our D complete. Guys try to say he got owned in the Ohio State game; what a joke. First of all he was double teamed on the play in which he forced the back to cut back into the middle because he closed up the hole the back was surpose to go threw. The last time I checked there are 10 other guys on the field. On this particular play the guy playing MLB just wiffed on the takle and could have stopped the back for a five yard gain. This guy can be the anchor for our D-line for years.

With the team we have right now what is the point of trading down to get more picks? What to get more back ups? We have a chance right now to get an immediate starter, an impact player. We have an entire draft next year to get backups. What position do we need backups for?

D-line
Carter,Daniels,Wynn,Griff,Golston,Branch,Big Joe,Evans,Boshettii,Montgomary

LB's
Washington,Fletcher,Rocky,Marshall,Posey,Campell(L avar maybe:whoknows: )

DB's
Springs,Rogers,Smoot,Jimoh,Taylor,Pierson,AA,Fox,D oughty

OL
Jon,Thomas,Cassey,Chris,Pucilla,Wade,FA

WR's
Moss,B Lloyd,Randle-El,Thrash,Patten,Espy

TE
Cooley,Yoder,Sellers,FA

RB's
Portis,Betts,Rock,Nemo

If I traded down it would not be past 10 if we could still get Branch and maybe a gaurd in the second. I don't think Okoye would start right away and be that 2 gap DT we need. Our run D was painful to watch:tantrum: . A DE will not stop teams from running up the middle where we got creamed. By stoppind the run we'll put teams in 3rd and 7 or longer and the DE's that we have will look a lot better.;)

[JMUGator19]

Many of you point to a big need of DT, while a new younger DE would be nice but not necessary thanks to the growing developement of Andre Carter...
However, my view is simple. IF the skins see a dominant and true force at DE, whether it is in Gaines, Anderson, Carriker, they MUST go for it because simply enough, good to great DEs are rare... and much rarer than good DTs, even huge ones that can stop the run.
So simply put, is Anderson, Gaines or any other DE going to be a probowl quality DE? if they dont see that, they only see a starter, they should grab the best DT (Quick Fix) who hopefully can be a solid starter.
If they see a probowler in both a DT and a DE, you STILL take a DE b/c they are THAT much harder to find. (This is probably why houston didnt take the dime a dozen RB despite reggie bush being possibly the best to come out in years, and grabbed the DE they thought would be a superstar... not that i agreed with the pick)
PS, im not playing the DT or DE or specific namecalling at a certain pick of the draft b/c frankly its obvious that the skins will draft up to the value they consider the player to be... if you want a lower valued player theyd trade down...
PPS If all else fails, draft a QB and start another controversy that would drag on for years...:silly:
:logo:

[deejaydana]

if Adrian Peterson drops to #12 I will be amazed. The concern is his durability but the guy is as certain to be a lock as a stud RB as anyone coming out of college in recent memory.

[0mega]

What? Branch?

As good as a DE may sound, think of our worst beatings last year. Teams ran over us like a truck through tissue paper. If we cant stop the run, people won't bother even trying to pass. And you know Branch would take a double team and make our ends that much more effective.

That said, If they can draft DE and still bulk up the middle somehow, I won't complain. :-)


Or was that a statement about the mock in general?
Yeah - our interior D Line got MURDERED last year.

[The Consigliere]

I'd love Branch. We have enough at defensive end with Carter's improved play, Wynn, Daniels and Evans. Where we really got pushed around was inside when Salave'a got hurt and Griffin was dinged and Golston played well in stretches, but was not able to hold the line. A guy like Branch does what Salave'a did two years ago. Frees up Griffin to dominate while having the ability to make plays.

To me, he's the ideal player for us. We have a new middle linebacker who can be kept clean to flow. We good experience and depth if you add Branch along the defensive line. I believe his top end is higher than anyone in the draft along the line, though I do understand the love for Anderson.

We were an incredibly fine pressure defense for two years with Wynn and Daniels as our primary ends. With Carter in the mix we can be as well if we're better up the gut.


He would be a great selection, and to me, has more positives about him then Adams or Anderson. Not sure why there is so much distaste for the kid on here.

[Mad Mike]

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Some of you guys just crack me up! Alan Branch is a beast. The guy was only the anchor to the number 1 run D in the nation. And you think he's not worth our 6th pick. He would make our D complete. Guys try to say he got owned in the Ohio State game; what a joke. First of all he was double teamed on the play in which he forced the back to cut back into the middle because he closed up the hole the back was surpose to go threw. The last time I checked there are 10 other guys on the field. On this particular play the guy playing MLB just wiffed on the takle and could have stopped the back for a five yard gain. This guy can be the anchor for our D-line for years.

With the team we have right now what is the point of trading down to get more picks? What to get more back ups? We have a chance right now to get an immediate starter, an impact player. We have an entire draft next year to get backups. What position do we need backups for?

D-line
Carter,Daniels,Wynn,Griff,Golston,Branch,Big Joe,Evans,Boshettii,Montgomary

LB's
Washington,Fletcher,Rocky,Marshall,Posey,Campell(L avar maybe:whoknows: )

DB's
Springs,Rogers,Smoot,Jimoh,Taylor,Pierson,AA,Fox,D oughty

OL
Jon,Thomas,Cassey,Chris,Pucilla,Wade,FA

WR's
Moss,B Lloyd,Randle-El,Thrash,Patten,Espy

TE
Cooley,Yoder,Sellers,FA

RB's
Portis,Betts,Rock,Nemo

If I traded down it would not be past 10 if we could still get Branch and maybe a gaurd in the second. I don't think Okoye would start right away and be that 2 gap DT we need. Our run D was painful to watch:tantrum: . A DE will not stop teams from running up the middle where we got creamed. By stoppind the run we'll put teams in 3rd and 7 or longer and the DE's that we have will look a lot better.;)

Ding, ding, ding.

Anyone who thinks fixing our run defense is not priority number one should plug in a tape of last years Tampa game. They ran right over us time and again when we knew what was coming. It was pathetic and we play them again this year. Until we fix the run D, any team that can run will destroy us and dominate time of possession. Campbell will only be able to sit on the sidlines and watch as games slowly slip away, and when he does come in he will feel pressured to win and feel like he has to force things. Not a good way to manage games.

Yeah, we sucked at getting sacks last year, but we sucked worse at stopping the run. The sad truth is we probably cant get a major upgrade at both DE and DT. We have to fix one thing at a time and the biggest impact could come from DT where we can get a guy who can stuff the run and free up others to make plays... including getting more sacks.

And trading down? Hey, if its just a few slots and we can pick up something of value while still getting the impact player we need, I'm all for it. But a major trade down would suck. It would be another over reaction. Sorry but we cant undo our past mistakes in one season. We need to stand pat (or close to it) and make the most out the high pick that we have.

:2cents:

[Chump Bailey]

Chris Houston not in the first round?

[Redsk58417]

Ding, ding, ding.

Anyone who thinks fixing our run defense is not priority number one should plug in a tape of last years Tampa game. They ran right over us time and again when we knew what was coming. It was pathetic and we play them again this year. Until we fix the run D, any team that can run will destroy us and dominate time of possession. Campbell will only be able to sit on the sidlines and watch as games slowly slip away, and when he does come in he will feel pressured to win and feel like he has to force things. Not a good way to manage games.


:2cents:

Don't stop at the Tampa game either! Remember Tiki last year? Atlanta's BACK-UP RB J. Norwood? How about Titans RB T. Henry? Rams RB S. Jackson? I can go on folks! Every name that I mentioned, that team or RB rushed for atleast 150 OR MORE yards, or had CAREER rushing days last year vs. the Skins defense! The #1 rule of football....."Run, but STOP THE RUN!" Its not sack the QB. We weren't a good sack team in '04 or '05 either. But stopping the run made those defenses better. That is our *#1* priority. You don't stop the run? NOTHING ELSE will matter! Fact!

[Veretax]

You know, i thought Minnesota drafted a Couple Dlinemen last year..

[Mufumonk]

[QUOTE=Gregpeck99]No way the Skins take Fatty Branch ...QUOTE]

I will give you a dollar if you call him that to his face. :laugh:

People on here crack me up calling him lazy and fat. Sure, he's got 20 lbs on Okoye but they conveniently forget that he's also 5 inches taller.

Alan Branch, DT, Michigan: Michigan's Pro Day isn't until March 16, and with a solid workout at the Combine, Branch won't necessarily have anything to gain. The concern scouts have is the more they put in the film, the more concerned they are that Branch was simply able to over-power collegiate players. Even his most ardent supporters would agree that Branch isn't your typical playmaking defensive tackle, and his pass rush skills will never earn comparisons to Warren Sapp. Still, for a player who is thought to be a physically dominant presence, Branch was so meek in Combine interviews with teams that some are a little worried he'll struggle to adapt to the intensity of the pro game.

Wow.......nothing about being lazy, out of shape, taking plays off or any of the other garbage you all like to run with. Simply that he used brute strength rather than technique to be a force in the middle. Not a bad "negative". Technique can be taught. And so what if he's passive in interviews. Look at Sean Taylor. Does that make him any less of an animal on the field? No. Branch is so meek and timid on the field that he knocked 5 people out of games this year.


PS -- And to whomever brought up Kiper sliding Okoye above Branch.............remember Mike Williams?

[JohnnyUtah]

I think that with the lack of pressure we put on ANY QB last year, we have to go with a DE with our pick, especially in a year where there a couple talented guys. Personally, I'm enamored with Jamaal Anderson because of his speed and frame (where he could def. put on some more weight). After Anderson, I would also be happy with Gaines Adams, despite the fact that I think he looks better fit as a LB, or Adam Carriker, who is lacking in speed, but has the best hands (in terms of working past a blocker) of any of the DE's. I think it would be stupid to take Alan Branch who reminds me of Sean Gilbert. I agree with everyone that our run defense needs some help, which is why I think we should sign Ian Scott, who is planning on visiting the Broncos. He is 6-3 and 302 and only 25 years old. He's turned into a pretty good run-stopper, who in my opinion will only get better. Eric Allen said of Scott: "He's very young (25) and has shown a great deal of energy at times. He could be a disruptive force for years to come." I understand that Branch is 6-6 and 330, but he's struggled to find a consistent weight and I've heard many sources, including the NFL Network last night in the Path to the Draft for the Skins, talking about how it seems like he doesn't play every down, which is a contrast to Anderson, Gaines, and/or Carriker. I think if we sign Scott and then drafter one of the afforementioned DE's, our D-Line will vastly improve this year and for many years to come.


:dallasuck

[Mufumonk]

I understand that Branch is 6-6 and 330, but he's struggled to find a consistent weight

He was asked to play at different weights during his career at Michigan. They went from a 3-4 defense to a 4-3 under 2 different coordinators. One required him to be the big, fat slob of a NT in the 3-4. After they switched to the 4-3 they had him shed some of his baby fat to get quicker and he did exactly that. He's a very coachable, football savvy kid.

[WorldBFree76]

I want Branch.

I don't understand how the DE will improve our run support...definitely adding Branch next to Griffin and rotating in Salavae will improve the run support, as well as allow guys like Daniels and Carter to go one on one against tackles. A lot of the pressure will probably come from the linebackers again, since they added Smoot to improve the man to man coverage.

[JohnnyUtah]

I agree with your point, but how old is Daniels? He has slowed substantially every season and the signs point to him only degrading more so. And, who is his backup? Wynn? He's even slower and older. The Skins lack a solid pass rusher outside of Carter. If we were to take one of the younger DE's, it would free up the pressure on Carter, which would allow him to make more sacks and create more pressure. For this reason, I think we should go after DT Ian Scott, who fits the youth movement many of us desire AND a solid addition to stop the run. If we do this and draft one of the DE's, we could solve both D-Line issues.

[WorldBFree76]

That's true. It's a gamble either way though, due to having not many draft picks.

I guess it'll just come down to who they like more, because both are obviously needs.

[F Landry]

26. Philadelphia: Aaron Ross, CB, Texas -- The Eagles need a corner and a safety to go a long with a top flight outside linebacker. By midweek they should have a wide receiver in the fold and maybe even an outside linebacker, which make a corner like Ross a solid pick.

Since when do the Eagles need a #1/#2 corner?

I was under the impression you DON'T use 1st round draft picks on back-up players...

[Siven]

NT is as much as a technique as it is a description of the size of the individual in question.

You can run a 4-3 with a NT/DT combo.

yeah, there was a really good, informative post about defensive tackle techniques. i suggest everyone search for it and read it, it is really really good.

[Aston]

If Adrian Peterson drops to #6, we'll be trading down with somebody.

Anybody got the scoop on Todd McShay's latest mock?This has him dropping to 12?? I seriously doubt that.

[cphil006]

Yeah - our interior D Line got MURDERED last year.

That's a little harsh. Lack of MLB plugging up holes hurt as well. Lemar will move to OLB and compete with Rocky Mc for playing time. Basically, signing Fletcher improved two LB positions.

[cphil006]

This has him dropping to 12?? I seriously doubt that.

I'm not suprised, good RBs are dime a dozen. Is he going to be that big of a game changer? maybe, but too much uncertainty to pick ultra-low. Calvin Johnson is a freak athlete. He is worth a top 6 pick.

[cphil006]

If Calvin Johnson is available... take him.

[skinsfan4life7]

first of all, if adrian peterson is there at #6, you trade the pick down obviousely, and acquire some more high picks. Or like some of you are saying to "draft the best player available" which is not Branch.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I'd love Branch. We have enough at defensive end with Carter's improved play, Wynn, Daniels and Evans. Where we really got pushed around was inside when Salave'a got hurt and Griffin was dinged and Golston played well in stretches, but was not able to hold the line. A guy like Branch does what Salave'a did two years ago. Frees up Griffin to dominate while having the ability to make plays.

To me, he's the ideal player for us. We have a new middle linebacker who can be kept clean to flow. We good experience and depth if you add Branch along the defensive line. I believe his top end is higher than anyone in the draft along the line, though I do understand the love for Anderson.

We were an incredibly fine pressure defense for two years with Wynn and Daniels as our primary ends. With Carter in the mix we can be as well if we're better up the gut.

I'm inclined to agree with this. If we opt against trading down and we draft Branch, I'd be happy. Hell, I'd be happy with any situation that nets us a good DT or DE so this would just be gravy!

[Dirk Diggler]

I'm not in love with Branch. I wouldn't need to be talked off a ledge but I have concerns about just how (un)productive he was at UM. Please don't bombard me with posts about how it was his job to eat up blocks - I'm aware of that. I just think that, considering his perceived talent and the level of competition in the Big 10, that he should have registered more sacks and TFLs. However, there have been players that were used in a similar role (Richard Seymour) who failed to put up big numbers yet were an instant hit in the Pros. I think Branch's biggest strength will be his versatility: It looks like he could probably play any position in a 4-3 or 3-4 except rush end on a 4 man line.

I look at our Dline starters and depth and I want to throw up. We have a bunch of gray-beard run stuffers across the board and one player with above average pass rush skills - Andre Carter. I don't agree that it's clear cut that we need a DT more than a DE or vice versa. The reality is, we are going to need 2 DEs and 2 DTs this offseason and next in order to bring the talent level up to where it needs to be. While from a pure talent standpoint, we're slightly more talented at end than tackle, that could change if Wynn gets cut - a distinct possibility. And we're also MUCH older at end than we are at tackle. It's a forgone conclusion that neither Daniels nor Wynn will be on this team in 2008. Then what?

The bottom line is that I just want the team to take the best defensive lineman available - no matter where he plays. If it's a LE, 3 technique DT, NT, or RE - whatever. Just take the guy who's rated highest. IMO, that player is Jamaal Anderson. I know he only did it for a year but his ceiling is just incredible. But Okoye is a very close 2nd and would be a wonderful option in a trade down.

[Riggo#44]

No way the Skins take Fatty Branch ... he will be a collossal bust! Cleveland will be forced to take Petersen, dropping Thomas to Tampa. Skins will wind up with Calvin Johnson in their laps! I guarantee it.

Care to make a wager?

If Johnson is "the greatest prospect ever" no way 5 teams pass on him.

[Skins4481]

At first I wanted Branch but there have been too many DTs in the mold of branch that have been busts in the early first round. Sullivan, Robertson and Haynesworth are three that come to mind.

[JohnnyUtah]

Dirk Diggler,


I couldn't agree with you more. You're spot on with what you said. Going from that, do you think that the Skins should go and get Ian Scott to shore up the DT and then regardless of who we draft, we'll either get more depth or a DT and a DE

[flock53]

No way the Skins take Fatty Branch ... he will be a collossal bust! Cleveland will be forced to take Petersen, dropping Thomas to Tampa. Skins will wind up with Calvin Johnson in their laps! I guarantee it.One can only PRAY this happens:applause:

[[[ghost]]]

In our situation, we need a DE much more than a DT.

I'd take anderson.

[Dirk Diggler]

Dirk Diggler,


I couldn't agree with you more. You're spot on with what you said. Going from that, do you think that the Skins should go and get Ian Scott to shore up the DT and then regardless of who we draft, we'll either get more depth or a DT and a DE

Scott is a young, ascending NT - he's only 25. He's a pure run stuffer who offers next to nothing vs. the pass. Perhaps the coaches don't see him as an upgrade over Salavea. But as I mentioned, how much more mileage can we expect out of this motley crew we've assembled? We need to consider who will step up in 2008 now. Big Joe could easily go the route of Wynn and Daniels this time next year. That would mean we're down 3 players in the rotation.

There' s another way to look at it - Scott hasn't drawn much interest from anyone in the league - not just us. Maybe his price is outrageous. But I hope we at least considered him.

[flock53]

Do you think tha lack of sacks had more to do with S#$@Y CB play??? Thus, dont blame the DEs granted they didnt produce. They're are no Peppers in this draft. We def should pass on Gaines, we dont need another undersized DE

[planter]

Another nifty post/link.

I graduated from an Albuquerque HS, so he's OK. Are 4-3's defenses moving toward 2 NTs? And 2 QB sacking DE's?

But we could also use a DE...

[26fan4life]

You know, i thought Minnesota drafted a Couple Dlinemen last year..

And they were #1 in rush D for it! No coincidence there! their opponents averaged ONLY 2.8 yards per carry last season :notworthy .

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-RUSHING/2006/regular?sort_col_1=7

we allowed 4.5 yards per carry and were 27th in rush D on the other hand :doh: . we could clearly learn something from minny.


If Calvin Johnson is available... take him.

:doh: on so many levels.

[pjfootballer]

Let Peterson or Quinn fall to #6. we'll be in the driver's seat to trade down and pickk up extra picks.

[clathel]

I'd love Branch. We have enough at defensive end with Carter's improved play, Wynn, Daniels and Evans. Where we really got pushed around was inside when Salave'a got hurt and Griffin was dinged and Golston played well in stretches, but was not able to hold the line. A guy like Branch does what Salave'a did two years ago. Frees up Griffin to dominate while having the ability to make plays.

To me, he's the ideal player for us. We have a new middle linebacker who can be kept clean to flow. We good experience and depth if you add Branch along the defensive line. I believe his top end is higher than anyone in the draft along the line, though I do understand the love for Anderson.

We were an incredibly fine pressure defense for two years with Wynn and Daniels as our primary ends. With Carter in the mix we can be as well if we're better up the gut.
Art,
I respect your opinion alot.
I am a big Anderson proponent but if you say Branch is better, I will believe it.
You have a very keen insight on the team.
There is always Andyman too......
You guys are great.

[clathel]

I think Detroit will take Calvin Johnson....
They have a thing for WR's.

[Veretax]

I honestly don't believe CJ will fall to 6 if he does we may try to trade out and I begrudgingly would be okay with that as I wasn't expecting him to fall, but if we don't get enough, maybe we should take him. I realize that doesn't help our Dline out much, but there is still a chance of trading betts or springs for a pick somewhere. or in the worse scenario trade a couple of next years picks for something this year

[Thirtyfive2seven]

If Calvin Johnson is available... take him.

Seriously, I don't care who is available or how badly we need a DT/DE. Take calvin Johnson with that pick if he's there, and then you can trade his ass for a DE/DT and more picks if you don't want him.

[TotalRecall]

]']In our situation, we need a DE much more than a DT.

I'd take anderson.

I think we need a DT more. We can manage to rush the passer with a LB or safety blitz, but we need a run-stuffing DT to plug up the hole in the middle of our defense. If we can't stop the run, then our defense is going to be totally useless.

Oh Lord, may we get 2 first-round picks this year. A DT and Chris Houston.

[26fan4life]

furthermore what good is a pass rushing DE if our opponents can simply run it up the gut for 5 yards a pop. again, we were 27th in rush D and allowed 4.5 yards per carry. What teams would even bother passing on our D with a rush D as bad as ours? They'd opt to keep running the ball up the middle and dominate TOP.

[gutlead74]

NT is as much as a technique as it is a description of the size of the individual in question.

You can run a 4-3 with a NT/DT combo. the NT would be a 2,1 or shade whereas the DT would be a 3

[azmodeus13]

By the way - Branch is #80
He isn't always there on the final plays but watch how many men it takes to absorb him

And the 330 pound man can stunt well too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfFBKO0v2pc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PTVjRP_LT0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbpunU0qaaE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVqigtjNZFw&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNFzGricYYY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6dyhcnFCMI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViGf_4YG-cY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPBq75tJGxk

check this one out and watch the middle of the line and how often the DTs are doubled up on and the effect it has on offenses!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zem1w8nHClA

Just a few quick links I could find

Sickest part - half the time Branch still ended up affecting the play in a major way even being triple teamed

One of the drawbacks is he didn't play any competition? WHAT?

Notre Dame, Michigan St, Penn St, Ohio St, Wisconsin?

Hmmm...

[Bangee7]

By the way - Branch is #80...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6dyhcnFCMI


...


The Penn State highlight was more Woodley than Branch.


Thanks for the clips...

it does illustrate though that Branch played on a good defense.

I personally could not pull the trigger on him with #6 Overall.
Drop back and get him at 9 or 10.

[bulldog]

I agree with Kirwan that this is the year to pick up that franchise DL you are looking for. the depth here is excellent in the first 2-3 rounds. luckily, this is the year the Redskins need DL help the most and have the high pick to make it happen.

[deejaydana]

"The NFC East wants to run the ball and Branch is the best run stuffer."
Scintillating analysis here. At least he's getting paid for stating the obvious, I'm just wasting part of my Friday night...

[Seabee1973]

even if we stop the run if we cant get pressure on the qb wew wont get many turnovers and turnovers lead to points. how many times was this team in a 3rd and 7 or longer last season and gave up the big play?

[s0crates]

I cannot believe that Adrian Peterson would fall to 13.

[tex]

still betting the skins and denver play lets make a deal.

[azmodeus13]

While the Penn State game was more Woodley than Branch, how many times did Grant and Butz soak up 4 blockers and allow Mann and Manley the opportunity to beat a tackle with no one to help out?

Woodley was kept clean by the line play.

Woodley wouldn't have done anywhere near as well with a 320 pound guard in his face all game long. Or a fullback. Or a tackle. Or a Tight end.

Go back and look at the film and see how many times the line was bunched in the middle against the DTs. Makes a LBs day, lemme tell ya :)

I got lots of sacks and tackles when the DTs kept the line offa me... which didn't happen often. Guards can ruin a perfectly good football day, I'm here to tell ya :)

[mistertim]

furthermore what good is a pass rushing DE if our opponents can simply run it up the gut for 5 yards a pop. again, we were 27th in rush D and allowed 4.5 yards per carry. What teams would even bother passing on our D with a rush D as bad as ours? They'd opt to keep running the ball up the middle and dominate TOP.

Quite a few bothered to pass on our D last year seeing as how we gave up so many big plays. The QB had plenty of time and Carter was the only real pass rushing threat, and not until later in the season. Sorry but I still say go with Anderson. His upside and potential is ridiculous, and some of the negative things I've been hearing about Branch recently give me pause. Not every big DT ends up being a savior for a team's line.

[Morneblade]

I'd love Branch. We have enough at defensive end with Carter's improved play, Wynn, Daniels and Evans. Where we really got pushed around was inside when Salave'a got hurt and Griffin was dinged and Golston played well in stretches, but was not able to hold the line. A guy like Branch does what Salave'a did two years ago. Frees up Griffin to dominate while having the ability to make plays.

To me, he's the ideal player for us. We have a new middle linebacker who can be kept clean to flow. We good experience and depth if you add Branch along the defensive line. I believe his top end is higher than anyone in the draft along the line, though I do understand the love for Anderson.

We were an incredibly fine pressure defense for two years with Wynn and Daniels as our primary ends. With Carter in the mix we can be as well if we're better up the gut.

I think we need a DT, but be serious Art, Wynn and Daneils are done, and Evans is a "never will be". DE is in very bad shape as well. And Daniels had 4 sack in 1 (Cowgirls, yay) game, 4 for the rest of the season in 05. All of our pressure came from blitzing in 04 and 05, not from our DE's since GW has been here. And it's starting to showup how bad we are there when we couldnt blitz anymore.

Basically even with Branch, our LDE is going to be a non-factor because Daniels is playing like a 34 year old player.