Our Offense Was As Bad As The Defense

[gorebd82]

I don't think a lot of people realize how bad our offense really was last year. I've been hearing a lot of people say that we gotta fix our defense. Truth is we need an impact player on both sides of the ball. I've been an advocate for CJ and when you look at the numbers, we need him. Imagine a #2 CB trying to cover him without help.

Part of the reason our defense sucked is because of the 3 and outs on offense. And when we actually were moving on offense, we couldn't get in the end zone. Am I the only one that remembers that Cooley was our only redzone threat. Or the year before that when we couldn't get the ball in from the 5 so we lucked into dumping it off for like 7 TDs to Sellers (which will never happen again).

Don't believe me. Here are some of the game stats from ESPN. We need CJ to be that redzone threat and open up the entire offense (not just the running game).

5 games with 3 or more offensive TDs (6 game streak with less than 20 points; 9 total)

2 games with a score of 3 points (against NYG and PHI)

All three division opponents held us to 1 TD or less in a game

1 game with a 300 yard passer (only 2 games with a passer over 250 against HOU and JAX)

3 games with a 100 yard receiver (9 where the top receiver has less than 70 yards)

19 passing TDs for the season (one was from ARE)

[One Shot]

Sorry, but I strongly disagree. Our offense wasn't nearly as bad as the defense. Maybe at the start of the season it was, but the offense was lighting it up the last few games. Their redzone statistics could've been better (turning more field goals into TDs), but they were putting together crisp and solid drives often in every game. Didn't you notice how, on every opening drive, they would execute their run and pass plays to perfection? I'm not saying our offense was amazing, but it certainly wasn't as bad as our D. Our D had no consistency.

[FtheCowboys84]

agreed. we were horrible on both sides of the ball last year. but both sides were plagued by the injury bug all year. This is why we need to build depth, every team gets injuries every year. If we were to draft CJ, who's to say that he won't get hurt in the preseason. I dream of seeing him leaping over defenders for touchdowns in burgandy and gold, but we need draft picks and we need depth above all else.

With that said, I wouldn't complain at all if we did trade up for him.

[26fan4life]

I don't think a lot of people realize how bad our offense really was last year. I've been hearing a lot of people say that we gotta fix our defense. Truth is we need an impact player on both sides of the ball. I've been an advocate for CJ and when you look at the numbers, we need him. Imagine a #2 CB trying to cover him without help.

Part of the reason our defense sucked is because of the 3 and outs on offense. And when we actually were moving on offense, we couldn't get in the end zone. Am I the only one that remembers that Cooley was our only redzone threat. Or the year before that when we couldn't get the ball in from the 5 so we lucked into dumping it off for like 7 TDs to Sellers (which will never happen again).

Don't believe me. Here are some of the game stats from ESPN. We need CJ to be that redzone threat and open up the entire offense (not just the running game).

5 games with 3 or more offensive TDs (6 game streak with less than 20 points; 9 total)

2 games with a score of 3 points (against NYG and PHI)

All three division opponents held us to 1 TD or less in a game

1 game with a 300 yard passer (only 2 games with a passer over 250 against HOU and JAX)

3 games with a 100 yard receiver (9 where the top receiver has less than 70 yards)

19 passing TDs for the season (one was from ARE)

our defense broke several NFL records - not good ones like fewest yards or points allowed but really embarassing ones. We couldn't stop anyone. Our offense with a top 10 defense = playoffs.

[21Knock_U_Out]

CJ , CJ, CJ ,CJ......Thats all I hear.When Campbell becomes a solid QB and a leader is when the offense will be a powerhouse.It all starts with the QB, the general of the field.

[gorebd82]

I probably should have been more specific. Our Pass Offense was terrible. And you're definitely right about our first drive of every game. But the problem was always that we'd move the ball and get stuck around the 25-30 yard line.

I don't doubt the running game, but you have to have balance or else they'll stack the box. There's a reason we got so much ridicule for Saunders' 700-page playbook.

[Stew]

Our offense was bad because we scrapped the offensive system we had implimented the year before. We threw away Gibbs offensive system, and implimented Saunders 700 page screen pass manual. Brunell had a hard time adjusting, so did much of the offense. On top of that, the defense couldnt get off the field at times and the offense never had a constant rythm. If anything the offense made the defense worse last year. The defense never got off the field. Teams drove the length of the field on us almost at will. We couldnt stop the run, we couldnt stop the pass. So, I agree with us addressing the defense first this offseason. Its in much worse condition eveywhere you look, starting at the line. I believe this will be addresed through the draft and June 1st cuts. Here's the good news. We are in year two of this technical offense. Even better, its JC's second year in this technical offense. Campbell hasnt spent two years in the same system in something crazy like seven years. Things will be familier for him, and i think it helps his learning curve. We have good recievers in Moss, ARE, Espy, Thrash, and to an extent Lloyd. Our offense will get its deserved attention after this season. We are going to have to start looking for replacements for Jansen and Samuels, cause they arent getting any younger.

[Phixius]

Two words, Clinton Portis

[chronicdesi]

Unfortunately this is a circular argument. I've been watching thread after thread telling me who and why we should draft. But, its the chicken and the egg.
Our defense never stopped anyone, so we had bad position.
Our offense never held onto the ball, so we never gave the defense a time to rest, and gave the other team good field position.
Our defense never got turnovers, so we never had good field position.
Our offense gave up too many turnovers.

This argument can go on forever.

[Cooley's Kidz]

It was painful to watch us move the sticks all the way down the field and then have to settle for a field goal. It was equally painful to watch the defense get pushed around, but i really think that cj could solve these problems. The defense is one year removed from being top 10 and injuries played a key role in last years problems. CJ could provide a really effective compliment to moss, and in his first year or so he would not need to be our big time playmaker like he has potential to be. The defenders in this draft don't really stand out to me as franchise type players. Of all the rumors out there i hope that the trade up to get CJ rumor happens.

First time post, you popped my cherry :silly:

[21Knock_U_Out]

First time post, you popped my cherry :silly:
IF you are a girl, that sounds sexy............If your a dude, your SICK!

[One Shot]

I probably should have been more specific. Our Pass Offense was terrible. And you're definitely right about our first drive of every game. But the problem was always that we'd move the ball and get stuck around the 25-30 yard line.

True, but I'll give them the benifit of the doubt because of the new QB situation and all. Hopefullly Campbell can form a rapport between the recievers, and with some experience the skill of our pass offense will match that of our run offense.

[Phixius]

Redskins will not I repeat will not draft CJ. Get it through your heads. Offense couldnt score in the endzone, due to bad playcalling.

[ClintonINFORSIX26]

Brunell was not throwing the ball downfield...Campbell actually began to stretch the field and Betts took advantage with portis back there this offense will click...Also you could see towards the end of the year Campbell was clicking with cooley, ARE, and moss..I think one thing that could really make us more successful with as an Offense is, I think near the goal line we need to have plays where campbell can just take off and run in for six...but i believe our offense is on the right track...HAIL!

[gorebd82]

We have good recievers in Moss, ARE, Espy, Thrash, and to an extent Lloyd.

Correction. We have one good receiver in Moss. ARE is versatile, but his receiving stats aren't much better than Lloyd's. He had 3 TDs, but less yards on more catches. We didn't have a single one get close to 1,000 yards. Thrash is a special teamer. Espy didn't catch a single pass (I went to Vanderbilt and saw him play. Even with Eli at QB, he wasn't exactly dominant)

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

CIFS26 got it right. The stats were skewed because of that one guy who started the first nine games.

[Phixius]

Yeah I forgot about Green 40

[26fan4life]

Yeah I forgot about Green 40

I hated green 40

[gorebd82]

CIFS26 got it right. The stats were skewed because of that one guy who started the first nine games.

By the way, the one game with a 300 yard passer was Brunell. And five of the six game streak under 20 points were with Campbell. He didn't lead us to 3 touchdowns until the last two games against the defenses of the Rams and Giants (two teams with terrible secondaries, and the Giants DL were banged up).

I love Campbell, but the numbers tell me we need help.

[26fan4life]

By the way, the one game with a 300 yard passer was Brunell. And five of the six game streak under 20 points were with Campbell. He didn't lead us to 3 touchdowns until the last two games against the defenses of the Rams and Giants (two teams with terrible secondaries, and the Giants DL were banged up).

I love Campbell, but the numbers tell me we need help.


ur so damn impatient man. let him develop before you expect such great things from him. Meanwhile if we don't do something about our rush D he won't even see the field.

[ClintonINFORSIX26]

By the way, the one game with a 300 yard passer was Brunell. And five of the six game streak under 20 points were with Campbell. He didn't lead us to 3 touchdowns against the defenses of the Rams and Giants (two teams with terrible secondaries, and the Giants DL were banged up).

I love Campbell, but the numbers tell me we need help.

We scored 4 Td's against the rams and we scored 4 td's against the giants...

[gorebd82]

We scored 4 Td's against the rams and we scored 4 td's against the giants...

Sorry, I had to edit the post. I skipped the word "until". I must have corrected after your post.

[Phixius]

By the way, the one game with a 300 yard passer was Brunell. And five of the six game streak under 20 points were with Campbell. He didn't lead us to 3 touchdowns until the last two games against the defenses of the Rams and Giants (two teams with terrible secondaries, and the Giants DL were banged up).

I love Campbell, but the numbers tell me we need help.

Yeah it was 1 game. Campbell only played in 7 games in his career. Plus he score a TD in every game he played. It was because of Campbell we was close in winning games, but things occurs such as fumbles, and RB running through the defense with ease. Defense didnt have 8 guys in the box when Campbell was playing. Dont know about you, but I like seeing the ball go 20+ yards in the air more than 10 times a game.

[ClintonINFORSIX26]

Sorry, I had to edit the post. I skipped the word "until". I must have corrected after your post.

But once Campbell came in you have to realize its a process....he had not thrown with the first team, The problem near the goal was our running game Ladell Betts just doesnt have that instict for the endzone like portis does...from week to week Campbell learned lessons... he made mistakes but he learned from them, things are on the right track and our offense is going to be fine

[gorebd82]

ur so damn impatient man. let him develop before you expect such great things from him. Meanwhile if we don't do something about our rush D he won't even see the field.

I completely agree. I'm not tryin to knock campbell because I think he has a bright, MVP future. I'm saying the WRs are not cutting it. What better way to help him develop than to get a WR that can dominate as a second option and grow into possibly the best in the league. Remember, we wanted Reggie Wayne, not Lloyd because we knew we needed a tall receiver that could move. Think about how many times Brunell threw the ball away because no one was getting open. With Santana doubled, obviously ARE and Lloyd couldn't get the job done. If ARE wasn't so versatile, I'd be talking bad about him too.

[26fan4life]

I completely agree. I'm not tryin to knock campbell because I think he has a bright, MVP future. I'm saying the WRs are not cutting it. What better way to help him develop than to get a WR that can dominate as a second option and grow into possibly the best in the league. Remember, we wanted Reggie Wayne, not Lloyd because we knew we needed a tall receiver that could move. Think about how many times Brunell threw the ball away because no one was getting open. With Santana doubled, obviously ARE and Lloyd couldn't get the job done. If ARE wasn't so versatile, I'd be talking bad about him too.

I refuse to agree that Brunell's repeated out of bounds throws were attributable to the receivers not getting open. he really sucked.

[ClintonINFORSIX26]

I refuse to agree that Brunell's repeated out of bounds throws were attributable to the receivers not getting open. he really sucked.

His super-smart throw aways...I swear I'd trade brunell for a club sandwich and a Gallon of gatorade

[chotliwala]

I agree in thinking that CJ would be a huge weapon in our offense since he is totally different from all the other WR we have (being well over 6 foot), but the defensive line is just ancient. It needs an infusion of good young talent. And rookie WR's have been notorious for stinking it up their first year and I think we need someone to build our D-line around for now and the future.

And if we get a DT who can clog the run, then it would put the other team in more 3rd and longs (which is what our defense is predicated on doing) while getting a WR, even one as good as CJ, might not be able to have the effect that a game changing DT could.

[gorebd82]

I refuse to agree that Brunell's repeated out of bounds throws were attributable to the receivers not getting open. he really sucked.

Brunell absolutely sucks, but one thing is that he's not gonna make a dumb throw. He had pretty good protection and should have been able to dump off a lot of 5-10 yard throws (like the HOU game). Really think about how he would sit back there for a long time looking at receivers and then roll out and throw it away.

During games, the camera focuses on the QB and you can't really see what the WRs are doing. It's one thing to not get the ball there, but when the QB doesn't even try that tells me that no one was getting open.

[Phixius]

I refuse to agree that Brunell's repeated out of bounds throws were attributable to the receivers not getting open. he really sucked.

It was him not able, or should I say not feeling comfortable throwing the ball deep. Opposing defense knew it, took advantage of it.

[gorebd82]

And rookie WR's have been notorious for stinking it up their first year and I think we need someone to build our D-line around for now and the future.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jeffri_chadiha/03/29/drafts/index.html

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jeffri_chadiha/03/21/defensive.lineman/index.html

1st round DL are just as risky. After WR, DL probably has the worst track record. Chadiha just wrote a couple of articles that highlight a lot of DL busts.

[Brotherz]

Redskins will not I repeat will not draft CJ. Get it through your heads. Offense couldnt score in the endzone, due to bad playcalling.

How can you possibly say that? This FO is capable of just about anything. Thats why there is so much hubub in the media involving us in weird deals, because its believable. CJ drops to 4 and you don't think we might go get him? There are other ways to find a pass rushing DE (June 1st), which is all we have left to do at this point. I don't think they will do this either by the way. I just think its interesting that you think you can rule out things like this with this front office. I could so see them doing this to get CJ. And honestly, Id be worried about what they were doing for th Dline if they did but I wouldn't ***** too much if we got that guy. Honestly, they were talking on PTI to get Russell!!!! Man, I can see them doing anything.

[26fan4life]

How can you possibly say that? This FO is capable of just about anything. Thats why there is so much hubub in the media involving us in weird deals, because its believable. CJ drops to 4 and you don't think we might go get him? There are other ways to find a pass rushing DE (June 1st), which is all we have left to do at this point. I don't think they will do this either by the way. I just think its interesting that you think you can rule out things like this with this front office. I could so see them doing this to get CJ. And honestly, Id be worried about what they were doing for th Dline if they did but I wouldn't ***** too much if we got that guy. Honestly, they were talking on PTI to get Russell!!!! Man, I can see them doing anything.

how is it that a pass rushing de is all we need at this point??

[Califan007]

The Skins' red zone offense scored a TD seven out of seven times at the end of the season. While the offensive points may not have increased right away once Campbell was named starter, the drive lengths both in terms of yards and TOS shot up significantly. Scoring in both the 1st and 3rd quarters increased as well--no more falling behind quickly in games or coming out flatter than asphalt after the half. Scores remained under 20 points due to things like "rookie" QB mistakes and fumbles in the red zone, not because of an inability to move the ball.

In short, the offense was nowhere NEAR as incompetent as the defense last season. An addition like CJ would be fantastic, no doubt. But unless the Skins finally start investing in the D-line with youth and talent we're gonna be in for one long season after another. The 2005 playoff season was largely successful due to finally getting pressure and turnovers by the defense...I'd say it was those two things as much as it was Portis "putting the team on his back".

[CM916]

I beleive we were ranked 4th in Rushing offense by season's end. That alone makes our offense miles ahead of the defense which was on the bottom in almost every category. Of course, our defense did wake up and totally shut down two top offensive teams so even they were not completely broken.

[[[ghost]]]

Last year, our Offense> our Defense.

Not saying that our offense was great, but our defense was ridiculously terrible.

But all in all, I think I've begun to see less and less hate towards Calvin Johnson.


Not that thats a good thing :redpunch:

[ClintonINFORSIX26]

]']Last year, our Offense> our Defense.

Not saying that our offense was great, but our defense was ridiculously terrible.

But all in all, I think I've begun to see less and less hate towards Calvin Johnson.


Not that thats a good thing :redpunch:

Yeah, I mean I can see that us taking Johnson makes sense in some aspects...However we've upgraded our CB's, we got our starting SS back, We have upgraded our LB's, now an anderson, okoye, or adams can help us stage a complete turn around

[JoeGibbsThickandthin]

Randel El and Lloyd are just not big time WRs.


Just get CJ and be done with it. Teams doubling Moss has to end. We are making a big play WR into something he is not. He is the type of guy that should have 5 catches for 175. Not 69 yards.


But teams are just bringing doubles because Lloyd can only get open on trick plays.

[skinfan2k]

The Presence of a 6'5 WR that can run a 4.3 and can get open and get jumpballs would make our offense pretty damn good.. Moss as a #2 would be the best 2nd wr in the NFL

[Peregrine]

Ill give gorebd82 some credit, it takes a lot of guts to come out and say something so incredibly stupid.

Exhibit Offense:

20th in Points scored
21st in Passing yards
4th in Rushing yards
13th in Total yards
16th in 1stDowns
16th in Time of posession
3rd in Sacks allowed
4th in Interceptions thrown
15th in Fumbles lost

Exhibit Defense:
27th in points allowed
23rd in passing defense
27th in rushing defense
31st in total defense
Worst team in NFL history at creating turnovers
One of only 4 defenses without a Defensive TD
32nd in sacks(19 closest was 25)

I assumed this was common knowledge before. However, since it was not, I think its safe to say from the above that our offense was no where NEAR as bad as our defense was last year. To summarize, our offense was 13th in total yards, 20th in scoring, around 10th in turnovers, 3rd in sacks allowed. Our defense was 31st in total yards, 27th in scoring, worst in NFL history in turnovers, and 32nd in sacks(less than 1/3rd of league leaders).

[Snagletooth]

It makes my toes curl every time I see someone defend Brunell. No one has ever ruined my experience of watching my Redskins play as much as Brunell has.

And if the D-line porspects are just luke warm, and we can find a way to move up for CJ that is not just absurd, then I would love to see us pick him up. A Saunders offense with the kind of talent we would have, providing Campell continues to develop, would put up alot of points.

[hail2skins]

Ill give gorebd82 some credit, it takes a lot of guts to come out and say something so incredibly stupid.

Exhibit Offense:

20th in Points scored
21st in Passing yards
4th in Rushing yards
13th in Total yards
16th in 1stDowns
16th in Time of posession
3rd in Sacks allowed
4th in Interceptions thrown
15th in Fumbles lost

Exhibit Defense:
27th in points allowed
23rd in passing defense
27th in rushing defense
31st in total defense
Worst team in NFL history at creating turnovers
One of only 4 defenses without a Defensive TD
32nd in sacks(19 closest was 25)

I assumed this was common knowledge before. However, since it was not, I think its safe to say from the above that our offense was no where NEAR as bad as our defense was last year. To summarize, our offense was 13th in total yards, 20th in scoring, around 10th in turnovers, 3rd in sacks allowed. Our defense was 31st in total yards, 27th in scoring, worst in NFL history in turnovers, and 32nd in sacks(less than 1/3rd of league leaders).

I don't think what he said was stupid at all.

Try this stat......no touchdowns in three divisional away games. Yes, during the part of the season which actually meant something.......our offense SUCKED.

Having said that, I was optimistic about what I saw with the playcalling at the end of last year once Campbell did come in. A lot will be riding on his shoulders.

[skinfan2k]

I don't think what he said was stupid at all.

Try this stat......no touchdowns in three divisional away games. Yes, during the part of the season which actually meant something.......our offense SUCKED.

Having said that, I was optimistic about what I saw with the playcalling at the end of last year once Campbell did come in. A lot will be riding on his shoulders.

mark brunell was our limitation..

[TheREALJBird]

The Presence of a 6'5 WR that can run a 4.3 and can get open and get jumpballs would make our offense pretty damn good.. Moss as a #2 would be the best 2nd wr in the NFL

If we managed to get CJ I would think he'd be the #2. Moss is a proven playmaker....a rookie wouldn't just come in and take the #1 spot from him

[dahurt002]

How do you have a backup runningback replace Clinton Portis and gain 1,000 yards and be Ranked 13th in total offense (the same ranking before Moss was getting double team a year before) and consider that to be a bad Offense- COME ON 4TH IN RUSHING- that means teams know your going to run(without Portis) and still can't stop it and you consider that as bad as the worst defensive performance in NFL HISTORY! GEEZ people, if you would like CJ on the team just say it, don't come up with bogus reasons to prove your point. That o-line was great last year ask Betts, he looked like a Pro-bowler last season, Mind you that was the FIRST YEAR with that offense it WILL ONLY GET BETTER. Ever heard of the Chiefs, NO big Wideouts, Hell No wideouts as good as Moss, a sick running game, sound familiar, and a great TE, YEAH THEY WERE RANKED NUMBER 1 LIKE 3 YEARS STRAIGHT, remember their problem NO FREAKIN DEFENSE, nuff said. :doh:

[skinfan2k]

If we managed to get CJ I would think he'd be the #2. Moss is a proven playmaker....a rookie wouldn't just come in and take the #1 spot from him

Moss isn't a true #1.. Calvin Johnson is a true #1 presence. It doesn't matter where Moss is lined up when CJ is in the game because he wont get doubled

[TheREALJBird]

Moss isn't a true #1.. Calvin Johnson is a true #1 presence. It doesn't matter where Moss is lined up when CJ is in the game because he wont get doubled

So why isn't Moss a true #1 now? I'm interested to hear this logic

[skinfan2k]

So why isn't Moss a true #1 now? I'm interested to hear this logic

When Moss is doubled, he basically gets shut down.. Most #1 Wrs still get their yards when double teamed.. Moss has limitations, hes a burner that can get open but hes no Owens, smith, harrison,

[dahurt002]

Moss isn't a true #1.. Calvin Johnson is a true #1 presence. It doesn't matter where Moss is lined up when CJ is in the game because he wont get doubled


I'll be damn, if Moss ain't a true #1, he gets double teamed and they still can't stop him ( in Dallas 05, against the jags in OT, against the saints, and Atlanta all DOUBLE TEAMS same results TOUCHDOWN)

[TheREALJBird]

I'll be damn, if Moss ain't a true #1, he gets double teamed and they still can't stop him ( in Dallas 05, against the jags in OT, against the saints, and Atlanta)

Pretty much what I was gonna say. He's beat double team plenty of times

[morpheusmeyers]

The Redskins don't necessarily need WR help, but they do need DL help. Calvin Johnson would help, sure, but at what cost? The Skins don't have a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th in this year's draft to offer, so does that mean they would have to offer a 1st or 2nd in next years draft along with the #6 overall to move up to grab CJ? With Moss, Randle El, and Lloyd already on board, trading up and not addressing their primary need just isn't a smart move.

[dahurt002]

Pretty much what I was gonna say. He's beat double team plenty of times

Doesn't it seem like people only remember the negative to prove their points. :doh:

[TheREALJBird]

Doesn't it seem like people only remember the negative to prove their points. :doh:

I don't know about you....but those arguments didn't prove a point. Moss is a #1 in my book, and a lot of others as well I'm sure

[dahurt002]

The Redskins don't necessarily need WR help, but they do need DL help. Calvin Johnson would help, sure, but at what cost? The Skins don't have a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th in this year's draft to offer, so does that mean they would have to offer a 1st or 2nd in next years draft along with the #6 overall to move up to grab CJ? With Moss, Randle El, and Lloyd already on board, trading up and not addressing their primary need just isn't a smart move.

I Agree!

[Siven]

Correction. We have one good receiver in Moss. ARE is versatile, but his receiving stats aren't much better than Lloyd's. He had 3 TDs, but less yards on more catches. We didn't have a single one get close to 1,000 yards. Thrash is a special teamer. Espy didn't catch a single pass (I went to Vanderbilt and saw him play. Even with Eli at QB, he wasn't exactly dominant)

Thrash is a clutch guy, always seems to make the important catch when we need it. Moss is elite, Cooley is elite, Betts is one of the better receiving backs in the league, and Portis is also pretty good. Anyway, at this point, I could care less what we do, CJ and Anderson are both really really good.

[JPCreativelab]

i dont care, i just want a smart move.

if CJ is taken by us, i dont want to cringe at the deal.

[skinfan2k]

Can Moss make that Clutch catch down the middle of the Field to keep the drive alive? Do you know how many wasted drives have we had in the past 2 yrs? Hes pretty much invisible in the redzone.. I dont trust in a jump ball situation.. Moss has limitations

[TheREALJBird]

Can Moss make that Clutch catch down the middle of the Field to keep the drive alive? Do you know how many wasted drives have we had in the past 2 yrs? Hes pretty much invisible in the redzone.. I dont trust in a jump ball situation.. Moss has limitations

Let's see yes he can and yes he has. Wasted drives....how about bad playcalling or poor passes being a part of that. Every WR has limitations, you're just off base on your Moss analysis

[Siven]

Can Moss make that Clutch catch down the middle of the Field to keep the drive alive? Do you know how many wasted drives have we had in the past 2 yrs? Hes pretty much invisible in the redzone.. I dont trust in a jump ball situation.. Moss has limitations

So you trust a receiver who has never played a down against NFL level talent, just some college ACC scrubs.

You are a fool if you don't think Moss is clutch. I trust him with a jump ball, the man is the master of deep ball adjustments. Go watch some highlights of him and get educated.

[skinfan2k]

So you trust a receiver who has never played a down against NFL level talent, just some college ACC scrubs.

best prospect at wr in 10 yrs, horrible qb at GT, workout #s enough said

[Peregrine]

I don't think what he said was stupid at all.

Try this stat......no touchdowns in three divisional away games. Yes, during the part of the season which actually meant something.......our offense SUCKED.

Having said that, I was optimistic about what I saw with the playcalling at the end of last year once Campbell did come in. A lot will be riding on his shoulders.

So...I gave all the important stats on our defense and offense this year, and you gave one that had to do with 3 games only? I fail to see how 3 games makes a season. The bears lost 3 games last season but surely their team didnt suck did it? The colts offense was poor in 3 games last season, but they dont have a bad offense do that? Which is exactly why teams are measured on their FULL season performances and not picking and choosing 3 games.

So what you mean to say is that... in 3 games last season our offense was horrible, yet we still mananged to rank in the top half of the NFL, which means our offense the rest of the games was even better than the stats show.

[Seabee1973]

When Moss is doubled, he basically gets shut down.. Most #1 Wrs still get their yards when double teamed.. Moss has limitations, hes a burner that can get open but hes no Owens, smith, harrison,


in 2005 he got double teamed and still put up the yardage

[Seabee1973]

best prospect at wr in 10 yrs, horrible qb at GT, workout #s enough said


So what happens if he is worse than 50-50

[DP Redskin]

Our offense was not as bad as the defense. Last year on offense we were adjusting to a new system plus we had injuries. This year we will be a lot better. Campbell will get a grip on running the O. He will have a rhtym with Moss, Cooley, ARE, and Lloyd. Plus he will have Portis back running the ball. This offense will be great this year!!!

[REDSKINZ-RIDEORDIE]

How do you have a backup runningback replace Clinton Portis and gain 1,000 yards and be Ranked 13th in total offense (the same ranking before Moss was getting double team a year before) and consider that to be a bad Offense- COME ON 4TH IN RUSHING- that means teams know your going to run(without Portis) and still can't stop it and you consider that as bad as the worst defensive performance in NFL HISTORY! GEEZ people, if you would like CJ on the team just say it, don't come up with bogus reasons to prove your point. That o-line was great last year ask Betts, he looked like a Pro-bowler last season, Mind you that was the FIRST YEAR with that offense it WILL ONLY GET BETTER. Ever heard of the Chiefs, NO big Wideouts, Hell No wideouts as good as Moss, a sick running game, sound familiar, and a great TE, YEAH THEY WERE RANKED NUMBER 1 LIKE 3 YEARS STRAIGHT, remember their problem NO FREAKIN DEFENSE, nuff said. :doh:


I agree, great post :applause:

[LoudMouth12thMan]

No way was the offense bad in the last 4 games. Penalties were drive killers, and fumbles were nearly every game Betts started it seemed. The offense was pretty good at times, and the defense had one good game, New Orleans. The D blew, and the offense got much better the last 4 or 5 games IMO :)

By the way, you're scatterbrained. Is this a variety thread? :laugh: Our offense doesn't "need" Calvin J. (although he'd be a great addition), it needs less penalties and less fumbles :2cents:
HTTR

[hail2skins]

So...I gave all the important stats on our defense and offense this year, and you gave one that had to do with 3 games only? I fail to see how 3 games makes a season. The bears lost 3 games last season but surely their team didnt suck did it? The colts offense was poor in 3 games last season, but they dont have a bad offense do that? Which is exactly why teams are measured on their FULL season performances and not picking and choosing 3 games.

So what you mean to say is that... in 3 games last season our offense was horrible, yet we still mananged to rank in the top half of the NFL, which means our offense the rest of the games was even better than the stats show.

Here's the one stat you provided that mattered........20th in points scored. Can't score, can't win........sinple as that.

I think perhaps the mistake made by the OP is not dividing the season into 2 halves.......Brunell and post-Brunell. Aside from 2 games, our offense last year with Brunell in resembled that of 2004......and you can't deny how bad the O was last year. Once Campbell came in I expected us to struggle a bit as he was making his first few starts. The progress that was made toward the end of the season certainly gives reason for optimism.

Like the OP, I just get sick of everyone bagging on the D so much for last year's troubles while giving the O a relative free pass. Yes, the D was bad last year, but in the balance of the season when the Skins were still in the hunt, so was the O.

[Russell Shotgun]

You can't judge the potential of the offense from last season. Brunell wasn't willing or able to throw the ball downfield which caused players to get hurt and unhappy. This put more pressure on the defense which also caused players to get hurt, unhappy and underperform.

Campbell showed some great potential, but he was never given a fair chance to develop chemistry with and learn his starting receivers' routes. Plus, he was playing from a very limited playcalling stategy that didn't allow him to pass that much - it was very power-running oriented.

Our defensive needs far outweigh our offensive needs. With that said, if CJ does fall to #6, we have to take him, because it would be an incredible steal with his ability. You just don't pass on a player like him - we would either draft him or trade the rights to draft him for a buttload of picks.

But this is moot because there's absolutely no way he'll be available at #6 and we don't have the picks to move up.

[Chump Bailey]

How do you have a backup runningback replace Clinton Portis and gain 1,000 yards and be Ranked 13th in total offense (the same ranking before Moss was getting double team a year before) and consider that to be a bad Offense- COME ON 4TH IN RUSHING- that means teams know your going to run(without Portis) and still can't stop it and you consider that as bad as the worst defensive performance in NFL HISTORY! GEEZ people, if you would like CJ on the team just say it, don't come up with bogus reasons to prove your point. That o-line was great last year ask Betts, he looked like a Pro-bowler last season, Mind you that was the FIRST YEAR with that offense it WILL ONLY GET BETTER. Ever heard of the Chiefs, NO big Wideouts, Hell No wideouts as good as Moss, a sick running game, sound familiar, and a great TE, YEAH THEY WERE RANKED NUMBER 1 LIKE 3 YEARS STRAIGHT, remember their problem NO FREAKIN DEFENSE, nuff said. :doh:

:cheers:

[Passizle]

I don't think a lot of people realize how bad our offense really was last year. I've been hearing a lot of people say that we gotta fix our defense. Truth is we need an impact player on both sides of the ball. I've been an advocate for CJ and when you look at the numbers, we need him. Imagine a #2 CB trying to cover him without help.

Part of the reason our defense sucked is because of the 3 and outs on offense. And when we actually were moving on offense, we couldn't get in the end zone. Am I the only one that remembers that Cooley was our only redzone threat. Or the year before that when we couldn't get the ball in from the 5 so we lucked into dumping it off for like 7 TDs to Sellers (which will never happen again).

Don't believe me. Here are some of the game stats from ESPN. We need CJ to be that redzone threat and open up the entire offense (not just the running game).

5 games with 3 or more offensive TDs (6 game streak with less than 20 points; 9 total)

2 games with a score of 3 points (against NYG and PHI)

All three division opponents held us to 1 TD or less in a game

1 game with a 300 yard passer (only 2 games with a passer over 250 against HOU and JAX)

3 games with a 100 yard receiver (9 where the top receiver has less than 70 yards)

19 passing TDs for the season (one was from ARE)

I think you need to watch more games during the season. As bad our team was, we were ranked 13th overall offense in the NFL. 21st in the pass. 24th in receiving. 4th in rushing. 20th in scoring. Brunell was the main reason behind our pitiful pass game and everyone here knows it. I think that will be much improved this season like it was the end of last season.
On the other hand...
We were 31st in overall defense. 23rd against the pass. 27th against the run. 27th in points against.
Get your facts straight. Then post your opinion on FACTUAL evidence. Picking small bits and peices to support your opinion instead of looking at the whole picture is a complete and utter waste of time.
That is all.

[grego]

Here's the one stat you provided that mattered........20th in points scored. Can't score, can't win........sinple as that.

I think perhaps the mistake made by the OP is not dividing the season into 2 halves.......Brunell and post-Brunell. Aside from 2 games, our offense last year with Brunell in resembled that of 2004......and you can't deny how bad the O was last year. Once Campbell came in I expected us to struggle a bit as he was making his first few starts. The progress that was made toward the end of the season certainly gives reason for optimism.

Like the OP, I just get sick of everyone bagging on the D so much for last year's troubles while giving the O a relative free pass. Yes, the D was bad last year, but in the balance of the season when the Skins were still in the hunt, so was the O.

sure, the O wasnt very good most of the season. in a few games, they flat out stunk. 20th in points scored isnt very good. but, with a little help from the D (maybe a turnover or a stop here or there) they certainly would have been better. a long field every offensive series will decrease your odds of scoring. not only that, but the scheme was new and just did not seem to be working. portis was hurt since before the first game of the season. a virtual rookie QB played almost half the season. now, i'm not saying 20th is good, but the ravens werent lighting it up when they won a SB six years ago. they were 14th in points scored, and 16th in yards out of 31 teams. all that is to say that even a mediocre D would have given the skins a much better chance last year.

now, the D was bad- record setting bad. this was a D that, over the previous seasons final six games, was best in the league. season before that, they were #3 after being #1 much of the season. overnight, they went from one extreme to the other.

the O gets more of a pass cuz of campbell, portis being dinged in preseason and never getting right, and a new OC. that and they just werent overall as horrid as the D.

[CaptChaos86]

I say someone else on here say Great QB's make Great WR's. Not the other way around. And i think that sums it up. CJ will NOT come here, even if he did i doubt he would see the field. And i stated in another Cj thread i have a feeling this guy is going to be a bust.

[gorebd82]

I'm really trying to point out our inability to pass last season. Was our running game great? Absolutely. It came on really strong at the end and really inflated our offensive stats to make our offense look bearable.

The stats listed say our pass offense was rated 21st. Our pass defense was 23rd. Not a big difference. Even those passing stats are increased by that fluke game against HOU where Brunell set the record and the following week at JAX. And part of the reason our offense even was ranked that high was because we did a great job of protecting the ball.

I'm just really concerned about the accountability when it comes to this team. Mark Brunell is a SCAPEGOAT. Yes he was terrible. But so was the playcalling. And so were the receivers. The Brunell situation has been resolved. The playcalling improved. The receivers can't be ignored. And my main point was that we have to recognize that our offense had a lot to do with our losses just like the defense.

[Passizle]

I'm really trying to point out our inability to pass last season. Was our running game great? Absolutely. It came on really strong at the end and really inflated our offensive stats to make our offense look bearable.

The stats listed say our pass offense was rated 21st. Our pass defense was 23rd. Not a big difference. Even those passing stats are increased by that fluke game against HOU where Brunell set the record and the following week at JAX. And part of the reason our offense even was ranked that high was because we did a great job of protecting the ball.

I'm just really concerned about the accountability when it comes to this team. Mark Brunell is a SCAPEGOAT. Yes he was terrible. But so was the playcalling. And so were the receivers. The Brunell situation has been resolved. The playcalling improved. The receivers can't be ignored. And my main point was that we have to recognize that our offense had a lot to do with our losses just like the defense.

Just not true. I think you are confusing offensive talent with the fact we had a new playbook with many new players adjusting to a new system, with new terminology and a QB that was too old, too immobile and not able to handle it.
If you re-watch the first 9 games from last season, Brunell was the one usually confused where he was supposed to throw the ball, hence the check downs to dump-offs for many three and outs. Campbell turned that around overnight. Suddenly, defenses had to respect the deep ball, which opened up everything from there.
We were up 22-0 on Indy in the first half. Did the offense lose that one?
We scored 36 point of Jacksonville. JACKSONVILLE!!! Did the offense let up 30?
I could go on but I wont. My point is...
You do not get to be 13th overall offense by a few fluke games wher you did realy well and all the other games suck. Here are the top twelve teams in over-all offense from last year.

1.New Orleans
2. Philadelphia
3. Indiannapolis
4. San Diego
5. Dallas
6. St. Loius
7. Pittsburg
8. Cincinnati
9. Greenbay
10. Jacksonville
11. New England
12. Atlanta

And we came in at 13th. New England has a great offense. They were 11th. According to your logic, they must have sucked most of the year and had 2 or 3 great games to pad their stats. I guess the fact they made it to the AFC Championship game was a fluke too.
In Brunells 9 starts, we averaged 18 pts per game.
In Campbells 7 starts we averaged 21 pts per game. With 2 less starts he averaged 3 more points per game as a freaking rookie. To me, that is promise in itself. 3 points win games. Ask New England and their SB trophies. Give Campbell the end of last season, all of OTA's, all of training camp, all of pre-season to gel with this team and the sky is the limit.
Think back to Campbells very first pass. We were just 3 steps from an entirley different opening. If only Lloyd was a little faster. If only Campbell put a litle less zip on that ball. You see, these are the things that time and gelling can heal. Not another receiver.

[Stew]

Pretty much what I was gonna say. He's beat double team plenty of times


Didn't he have a huge bomb that he caught in between two recievers and ran in for a TD against Jacksonville? Sanatana Moss is a TRUE #1 reciever. It would be like saying Steve Smith isnt a true #1 reciever.

[thomasroane]

How many receivers have made an impact in their rookie year in the last 5. Only one I can think of is Boldin. They're usually no good until late 2nd or 3rd season.

[Oldskool]

I don't think a lot of people realize how bad our offense really was last year. I've been hearing a lot of people say that we gotta fix our defense. Truth is we need an impact player on both sides of the ball. I've been an advocate for CJ and when you look at the numbers, we need him. Imagine a #2 CB trying to cover him without help.

Part of the reason our defense sucked is because of the 3 and outs on offense. And when we actually were moving on offense, we couldn't get in the end zone. Am I the only one that remembers that Cooley was our only redzone threat. Or the year before that when we couldn't get the ball in from the 5 so we lucked into dumping it off for like 7 TDs to Sellers (which will never happen again).

Don't believe me. Here are some of the game stats from ESPN. We need CJ to be that redzone threat and open up the entire offense (not just the running game).

5 games with 3 or more offensive TDs (6 game streak with less than 20 points; 9 total)

2 games with a score of 3 points (against NYG and PHI)

All three division opponents held us to 1 TD or less in a game

1 game with a 300 yard passer (only 2 games with a passer over 250 against HOU and JAX)

3 games with a 100 yard receiver (9 where the top receiver has less than 70 yards)

19 passing TDs for the season (one was from ARE)

WRONG!

Our offense was bad for the following reasons:

• Brunell sucks
• Campbell starting half way through the season
• Offense learning a new system
• Portis’ injury
• Lloyd sucks



Our defense was bad because of the following reasons.

• Injuries to key members of the secondary
• Salave’a inability to stay healthy
• DE’s being double teamed


Do you see the difference?

On offense it’s a matter of knowledge and a key injury

On defense its injuries and a deficit on our D-line

[FanSinceWomb]

Ill give gorebd82 some credit, it takes a lot of guts to come out and say something so incredibly stupid.

Exhibit Offense:

20th in Points scored
21st in Passing yards
4th in Rushing yards
13th in Total yards
16th in 1stDowns
16th in Time of posession
3rd in Sacks allowed
4th in Interceptions thrown
15th in Fumbles lost

Exhibit Defense:
27th in points allowed
23rd in passing defense
27th in rushing defense
31st in total defense
Worst team in NFL history at creating turnovers
One of only 4 defenses without a Defensive TD
32nd in sacks(19 closest was 25)


Thank. You.

I had a long post typed up but lost it...to summarize:
We weren't very good at scoring, that skews peoples perceptions.
We had a few bad games (who didn't?)
The TOP argument is ridiculous.
Of 15 teams before us in TOP the Jets and St Louis are the only teams to not be in the top half of the league for D ranking. (Jets 20th, St. Louis 23rd) which indicates that a strong TOP helps the D and that a strong D helps the TOP. Somehow the 'Skins average TOP came inspite of the worst D in the league and probably helped the D ever so slightly. Which is scary.

Just because it keeps popping up in this thread: say it with me folks -- though the change was needed for a litany of reasons -- Mark Brunell had a better year than JC. You can do it. Overcome the knee-jerk reactions. Stop repeated your gut feelings and look at the stats. The only edge JC has is the TD factor -- obviously huge but how much of that was an O more used to the system late in the year, or an O that finally figured out how to score in the redzone?
Even the "Brunell never threw downfield" argument falls on it face
MB 6.9 yds/att
JC 6.3 yds/att

Whoops.

[FanSinceWomb]

I was interested in how the team did with each QB:

Redskins under Mark Brunell:
18.33 points/g
30 min TOP
199 pass yds/g
129 rush yds/g
4.8 punts p/g
5.3 yards p/play
.333 win%

Jason Campbell
20.29 points/g
185.29 pass yds/g
151.29 rush yds/g
30 min TOP
5.1 punts per game
5.3 yards per play
.286 win %

Other than more points, which is likely, in part, due to 20 more rush yards per game, it's hard to see last season as two drasticly different offenses. Same TOP, same yds per game, more punts under Campbell, etc.. Sure there was some promise, but to act like Brunell=bad & Campbell = great....well, what exactly are looking at?

[Passizle]

Just because it keeps popping up in this thread: say it with me folks -- though the change was needed for a litany of reasons -- Mark Brunell had a better year than JC. You can do it. Overcome the knee-jerk reactions. Stop repeated your gut feelings and look at the stats. The only edge JC has is the TD factor -- obviously huge but how much of that was an O more used to the system late in the year, or an O that finally figured out how to score in the redzone?
Even the "Brunell never threw downfield" argument falls on it face
MB 6.9 yds/att
JC 6.3 yds/att

Whoops.

You cant use ypa to prove Brunell threw the ball downfield. The NFL count yac to figure ypa. Thats like saying an RB that has 25 carries in a game for 2 yds each, and then bust one long one for 99 yards has a stellar game. 2*24=48+1*99=147. Divide that by his carries (25) and you end up with a whopping 5.88 ypc. Did he have a great game? Hell no. He had one good play.

It would take way too long to post here, but take a look at the play by play stats on NFL.com. Review every game and you will clearly see the phrase "pass short" after Brunells name countless times. The part that does not factor into your numbers is the amount of deep passes attempted. Brunell had next to none. Campbell had quite a few that were not complete. It does not matter that Campbell did not complete the passes, what mattered is the fact that we now had a legitimate deep threat and opposing defenses knew it, hence the opening up of the running game.

[grego]

We were up 22-0 on Indy in the first half. Did the offense lose that one?


14-10 was the skins biggest lead. but i agree with your premise.

[grego]

I was interested in how the team did with each QB:

Redskins under Mark Brunell:
18.33 points/g
30 min TOP
199 pass yds/g
129 rush yds/g
4.8 punts p/g
5.3 yards p/play
.333 win%

Jason Campbell
20.29 points/g
185.29 pass yds/g
151.29 rush yds/g
30 min TOP
5.1 punts per game
5.3 yards per play
.286 win %

Other than more points, which is likely, in part, due to 20 more rush yards per game, it's hard to see last season as two drasticly different offenses. Same TOP, same yds per game, more punts under Campbell, etc.. Sure there was some promise, but to act like Brunell=bad & Campbell = great....well, what exactly are looking at?

i agree that brunell gets more flack than he probably should. i'm not saying he was great, but he wasnt as bad as some people insist. campbell definitely benefitted from a more consistent running game that was a result in part of a committment to run more. seems like the kinks in the O got ironed out as t season went on rather than campbell being that much better. part of that was the deep ball. could that be on brunell? maybe. but it could also be due to the playcalling. but i do like campbell.

[FanSinceWomb]

You cant use ypa to prove Brunell threw the ball downfield. The NFL count yac to figure ypa. Thats like saying an RB that has 25 carries in a game for 2 yds each, and then bust one long one for 99 yards has a stellar game. 2*24=48+1*99=147. Divide that by his carries (25) and you end up with a whopping 5.88 ypc. Did he have a great game? Hell no. He had one good play.

It would take way too long to post here, but take a look at the play by play stats on NFL.com. Review every game and you will clearly see the phrase "pass short" after Brunells name countless times. The part that does not factor into your numbers is the amount of deep passes attempted. Brunell had next to none. Campbell had quite a few that were not complete. It does not matter that Campbell did not complete the passes, what mattered is the fact that we now had a legitimate deep threat and opposing defenses knew it, hence the opening up of the running game.

I agree and you make your case well but let's face it, incompletions are BAD, in fact, outside of - yardage, a turnover, or a 0 net yard rush/pass, an incompletion is about the 4th worst thing you can do on an offensive play, (Obviously the deep threat, even on incompletions, can open things up), so it's no small wonder that the Skins punted more with Campbell under the helm...which put our D on the field. Yards per attempt is important, it's what a QB is supposed to do.

Sure, these number exclude YAC and attempts but Mark Brunell had 24 20+ passes and 5 40+ compared to Campbell's 13 20+ and 3 40+. If you look at play by play stats, like the guys at footballousiders.com (http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb.php), you'll see that Brunell's finished well above average on like defense adjusted plays across the NFL, Campbell only slightly better than average. I'm not arguing that Campbell is worse, and I loved what I saw down the stretch, hell if he get's his comp % up and nips the INTs a tad we're talking wonderful possibilities, I'm just pointing out that no matter which way you slice it the offense was just about the same under each QB...average and on a stat basis alone Brunell was a better QB.

Also on footballoutsider is our drive stats (http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/drivestats.php). We finished 11th with 29.43 yds/drive. Our average starting line of scrimmage was the 29.51, good for 24th -- thanks D!! By the way our d had an average starting LOS of 28.99 7th, yet they managed to finish last or next to last in points per drive and yards per drive.

Check out pro-football-reference-blog (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/wordpress/?cat=8) for adjusted yards #'s of 2006 QBs. You may not agree with the exact numbers (i.e -45 yards for an INT) but it's a fair weighted number to compare QBs and Brunell does well.

[FanSinceWomb]

OK, once you remove YAC the pass yads per attempt is:
MB: 2.84
JC: 3.5

For non-Skins comparison

Brees: 4.2 yds/att
Grossman: 3.9
Romo: 5.5
Manning: 5.2
Brady: 3.5
Young: 3.5

So 1 yard appears to be a big deal, so I can see why many of you feel Brunell's passing was futile...in this way it was.

[Cringer Eats You]

Two words, Clinton Portis

Well, you are certainly right about that being two words. Betts did a fine job of filling that role nicely so you can not blame the offense woes on who the RB was. Our problems consisted of a new offensive scheme, a decent backup (Brunell) QB and a O-line that could not protect (well Brunell anyways). Things picked up a bit after JC took over but at that point in the season I was not expecting anything amazing. We should see a much improved offense this season as long as JC puts in the time to work with the team like it sounds like he is now.

[hail2skins]

14-10 was the skins biggest lead. but i agree with your premise.

Sure Manning torched the Skins D, but if you remember, one of our TDs came courtesy of an ARE return, and another came at the very end in garbage time. Doesn't sound like a good offensive performance to me.

Bottom line: our offense was BAD in many of the games last year in which Brunell was under center. With Campbell in, it seemed like playcalling and performance (at least in the last few games) improved. Are big changes with the unit required? Right now, I'd probably stick with what we have. Keys are going to be of course JC's continued maturation and whether or not ARE and Lloyd show themselves to be legitimate WR threats.

[ceviker]

Our O was better than our D - but that's like saying eating roadkill squirell is better than roadkill badger; sure it might be better, but they both suck.

This is how I saw it last year:
- Our problems on offense:
(1) Brunell and his old, noodle arm. This problem is now corrected (via JC).
(2) Not understanding Al's system. This problem is now corrected (as improvements were noticable 2nd half of the year).
(3) Inability to sustain drives (i.e., moving the chains and eventually stalling)
(4) Inabilitly to score TDs in the redzone.

- Our problems on defense:
(1) Lack of sacks. Should be corrected with the improvement of Carter.
(2) Lack of turnovers. Should be corrected with (hopeful) health of our corners and Smoot.
(3) Lack of tackling. Should be corrected with Fletcher signing.
(4) Giving up big plays.

The problems on offense are easy (in theory, at least). A big, tall receiver to run in the middle to keep the chains moving and a big target to catch balls in the redzone is just what the doctor. CJ fits that to a 'T' and that is the reason I want him soooo badly.

The problems on defense are more complicated. And as much as fans want to think that drafting a DE/DT in the draft will improve that, they are grossly mistaken. The chance of a rookie DL to come in and make a significant impact is basically zero. Even if you get lucky and the DL is not a bust or average player, its going to take a solid 1-2 years before he starts producing.

In other words, if we can stay healthy and just practice doing our fundamentals on defense, we'll be ok. On offense, there is nobody on the roster that has the size/athleticism to do what we need at the WR position. CJ, assuming he's not a bust, will contribute IMMEDIATLY and if he's 1/2 as good as I (and most) think he will be, we will have one of the scariest offenses in football.

Thus, while I believe our D was worse than our O last year, I feel like getting someone like CJ will help us much more than gambling on a Gaines Adams, Jamaal Anderson, <insert your favorite DL here>.

[Morneblade]

Our O was better than our D - but that's like saying eating roadkill squirell is better than roadkill badger; sure it might be better, but they both suck.

This is how I saw it last year:
- Our problems on offense:
(1) Brunell and his old, noodle arm. This problem is now corrected (via JC).
(2) Not understanding Al's system. This problem is now corrected (as improvements were noticable 2nd half of the year).
(3) Inability to sustain drives (i.e., moving the chains and eventually stalling)
(4) Inabilitly to score TDs in the redzone.

- Our problems on defense:
(1) Lack of sacks. Should be corrected with the improvement of Carter.
(2) Lack of turnovers. Should be corrected with (hopeful) health of our corners and Smoot.
(3) Lack of tackling. Should be corrected with Fletcher signing.
(4) Giving up big plays.

The problems on offense are easy (in theory, at least). A big, tall receiver to run in the middle to keep the chains moving and a big target to catch balls in the redzone is just what the doctor. CJ fits that to a 'T' and that is the reason I want him soooo badly.

The problems on defense are more complicated. And as much as fans want to think that drafting a DE/DT in the draft will improve that, they are grossly mistaken. The chance of a rookie DL to come in and make a significant impact is basically zero. Even if you get lucky and the DL is not a bust or average player, its going to take a solid 1-2 years before he starts producing.

In other words, if we can stay healthy and just practice doing our fundamentals on defense, we'll be ok. On offense, there is nobody on the roster that has the size/athleticism to do what we need at the WR position. CJ, assuming he's not a bust, will contribute IMMEDIATLY and if he's 1/2 as good as I (and most) think he will be, we will have one of the scariest offenses in football.

Thus, while I believe our D was worse than our O last year, I feel like getting someone like CJ will help us much more than gambling on a Gaines Adams, Jamaal Anderson, <insert your favorite DL here>.

You realize that DT's and DE make their impacts more quickly that WR? right? Theat we gave up over 2000 yards rushing right? That we only have 1 decent DT and DE?

CJ, will be completely dependent on JC throwing him the ball. Moss will get his,and JC looks to have a good thing going with Cooley and ARE. So, when CJ is getting 5-6 LOOKS a game, how much of a impact is he really going to make?

Sniffing glue kills brain cells. Go D-Line. :2cents:

[joevghn]

Our receiving corp absolutely has the ability to stand out on its own: Moss, Randle El, Lloyd and Thrash. We also lost key players on offense and our defense never seemed to match up well game after game. I'm not Gaines Adams is our savior but he sure is a start. I mean our ends both had horrible years. Yes, I know that Carter's stats dont look that bad but that's just bc of the final 3 games. Maybe all he needs is alittle competition to step it up, who knows but I do know that I will bet my bottom dollar that if Mr. Adams is still available at the 6th spot he will be wearing the burgundy and gold next season.

[FanSinceWomb]

Get it through your thick skulls: Our O did not suck. Our O did not suck. Our O D not suck.

It did not score well, yes, a problem, but even that was partly based on our D being on the field.

We scored 1.66 pts/drive, good for 17th in the league. Not great but average. Only Houston, Arizona, NY Jets & Dallas (and Indy who scored a staggering 2.8 pts per drive) had fewer drives last season than us. And for every drive lower than our opponent we miss out on 1.66 pts. Our D gave up 2.11 pts per drive (which is like playing the Colts O every single drive) good for 30th. And added together we get a net minus in points. Not good.

People say "our D was left on the field"; good defenses go on the field more, not less, but with lots of short drives. 'Skins D faced 172 drives, compared to Chicago with 205 or Baltimore's 189. The D's job is to get itself off the field and the offesense on for a chance to score points, something the Skins D was terrible at.

Don't compare our O to the juggernaut offense you built up in your head, compare it to the offenses around the NFL, which makes it an average offense.

Here's another way of thinking of it.

Using Pythagorean Win Theorem to predict our record last season (points scored ^2.39 / points scored^2.39 + points allowed ^ 2.39) we have a 6 - 10 record. Not far from our actual 5-11.

Now if we went 9-7 laast year, with the same amount of drives and the same D we would have to score almost 100 more points (400 total) to get there. That kind of output on O would be good for 3rd in points per drive and would be close to Indy's 415 points.

So to simply MAKE the playoffs last year we would've needed Indy's offensive output. Is that what you are asking for? Is CJ going to give us that? Or maybe the better approach is to try to slightly improve an average O and get on the field more while we majorly cut down on points allowed so we win some games.

[hail2skins]

Get it through your thick skulls: Our O did not suck. Our O did not suck. Our O D not suck.

Were you overall satisfied with the O's performance during the first nine weeks of the season with Brunell under center?

[Siven]

Were you overall satisfied with the O's performance during the first nine weeks of the season with Brunell under center?

yeah considering we had a rookie qb after brunell playing in his 6th offense in 6 years without his number 1 receiver and runningback. I saw enuff to suggest the offense was playing good in the last games.

[hail2skins]

yeah considering we had a rookie qb after brunell playing in his 6th offense in 6 years without his number 1 receiver and runningback. I saw enuff to suggest the offense was playing good in the last games.

And this answered my question how?

[FanSinceWomb]

Were you overall satisfied with the O's performance during the first nine weeks of the season with Brunell under center?

Only for 3 weeks was I satisfied, just I was only satisfied 2 of the last 7 weeks with JC. But my level of satisfaction -- or yours -- has nothing to do with our O being bad or good on the offensive side of the ball. This may come as a shocker but the NFL keeps stats. Yeah, crazy right? And if you look at these stats you'll find that we had an average offense in almost every category. Our D was last or next to last in every category. So a thread titled "our offense was as bad as the defense" is absolutely absurd on it's face.

My point stands from earlier: if the our same Redskins offense had the NY Jets D we would, according to the win therom, finish 9-7. OR our same Redskins D would need the Indy offense to go 9-7. Which is more plausible in your mind?

[hail2skins]

This may come as a shocker but the NFL keeps stats.

In 2005 the Arizona Cardinals had the #7 ranked offense and the #8 ranked defense, per yards gained and yards given up. Sounds like a team that would solidly be in the playoffs? According to the stats?

Arizona finished 5-11 that year.

Do you seriously think our offense was "average" in the nine games Brunell was under center?

[FanSinceWomb]

In 2005 the Arizona Cardinals had the #7 ranked offense and the #8 ranked defense, per yards gained and yards given up. Sounds like a team that would solidly be in the playoffs? According to the stats?

Arizona finished 5-11 that year.

Do you seriously think our offense was "average" in the nine games Brunell was under center?

Back to the topic at hand: my main source of consternation is at the title of this thread; it's utterly absurd.

At times, Brunell was average, at times he was maddeningly inept and he was about as consistent as Grandpa's stream -- and consistency is something I've been begging to happen for years now. Yes, the O felt more consistent under JC but statistically it was not much better.

You point to 2 categories in Arizona's 2005 season but fail to point out that they were near last in scoring among other things...the point you either are intentionally or inadvertently missing is that the Redskins were right in the middle in almost EVERY offensive category. And where they have a 25 (punts) it's offset with a top-5 finish (rushing & turnovers). How one can claim that a D who finished in the cellar in every category is as good as an O that finished in the middle in every category defies logic.

Let's agree that punts are the one of the most frustrating things to watch as a fan. Run, run, pass, punt the old song and dance goes. So how did we do under Brunell and JC?

Under JC 8% or our plays were punts -- (obviously 25% would mean all you every did was goes 3 and out and punt) (out of 64 plays a game)

Under Brunell 8.5% of our plays were punts. (out of 59 plays a game)

Neither number is great...but how is Brunell far worse? Mind you that's a Brunell that had 40 less rush yards a game while the system and injuries were being tweaked.

Minnesota started the year by keeping the ball for 5 minutes and scoring.
The Giants first game against us they averaged 6 yards a play. They had the ball for 35 minutes of the game. Our defense did our offense zero favors; no turnovers, no touchdowns, never allowing them to get in a rhythm and break down an opposing D. Do you think it's conducive for an offense to come out after halftime and not touch the ball for 9 minutes? In spite of that we finished with average stats across the board -- hopefully JC natural maturation and a slightly better D is all we need next year to put up top-10 offensive #'s but some of us fans need to turn off the blinders created by their Redskins offensive fantasies where we pass downfield ever other drive and score 40 every game.