Move to #2 - what would it take?

[longtimeskinsfan]

Hypothetical:

We want to trade with Detroit to get #2 in order to draft Calvin Johnson. Note - the purpose of this thread is not to discuss the merit of drafting Johnson. Not being an expert, I wanted to know what we would have to offer to have Detriot consider trading places with us in the first round. There is speculation that Detroit wants to move down in the first round - they do not want to pick at #2.

What would we have to offer that could make this happen? Tampa Bay has also been rumored to be interested in moving up. What would we have to offer to entice Detroit to move down to 6?

Possibilities:
#6
#1 Next Year
Ladell Betts (still young, great running back, great contract)
Carlos Rogers (young CB with potential)

[ClintonINFORSIX26]

Our #6 and Springs....We wouldnt trade Rogers...so definitley not him...I doubt they would trade Betts either

They are only moving down 4 picks I doubt we are going to give them a ton for it

[Hooper]

This year's first, next year's first, and at least another pick.

We wouldn't part with Betts or Rogers I bet. Betts because there's a lot of insider talk that says the staff is starting to like him more than Portis and Rogers because... well, I don't think the Lions would want him. Hasn't proved enough yet. He's most valuable to the skins.

[#98QBKiller]

I would say that the #6 plus our #1 next year would do it. Detroit needs a QB first and foremost and Quinn will still be available at #6.

If they want a player thrown in, I doubt that Joe Gibbs will want to lose either Carlos or Ladell.

I guess it depends on how valuable Calvin Johnson is to our staff though.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Hypothetical:

We want to trade with Detroit to get #2 in order to draft Calvin Johnson. Note - the purpose of this thread is not to discuss the merit of drafting Johnson. Not being an expert, I wanted to know what we would have to offer to have Detriot consider trading places with us in the first round. There is speculation that Detroit wants to move down in the first round - they do not want to pick at #2.

What would we have to offer that could make this happen? Tampa Bay has also been rumored to be interested in moving up. What would we have to offer to entice Detroit to move down to 6?

Possibilities:
#6
#1 Next Year
Ladell Betts (still young, great running back, great contract)
Carlos Rogers (young CB with potential)

I don't think we could take the cap hit from Rogers going. Supposedly Detroit was interested in Springs, so I would say that is more likely.

Basically, next year's picks, Springs, Betts and maybe Lloyd (there would have to be a deal to change his contract for that to work) is what I would guess would be the list of options that would be used in some kind of combination.

[Hooper]

Lloyd? That's rich. If someone was willing to absorb his cap hit, the skins would give him away. Hell, they would probably throw in a late round pick.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

#6 and springs probably. it would be a dumbass move, but it would make sense in terms of value.

[FunBunch7]

I think it would be whatever Tampa is willing to give to move up. They are the most logical choice to get CJ...unfortuneatly for us they have more picks than we do that they could trade, at least in this year's draft.

As far as players I'd give up...Brondon Lloyde, Rock Cartwright, Shawn Springs.

How about swapping picks and next year's 3rd rounder

[ClintonINFORSIX26]

Everyone saying this years first, next years first and a player are crazy...People often trade down for a 1st swap and second round pick...its only 4 slots...we will not give detroit that much

[SkinsFanInAlaska]

you guys are crazy if you think they'd give up all that....detroit would easily just take our first maybe a later day one pick and srings.....that way they can still draft a guy they want. betts and carlos? and two first rounders? you guys are crazy

[fansince62]

I would say that the #6 plus our #1 next year would do it. Detroit needs a QB first and foremost and Quinn will still be available at #6.

If they want a player thrown in, I doubt that Joe Gibbs will want to lose either Carlos or Ladell.

I guess it depends on how valuable Calvin Johnson is to our staff though.

The Lions may really want Joe Thomas. He won't be there at #6.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Lloyd? That's rich. If someone was willing to absorb his cap hit, the skins would give him away. Hell, they would probably throw in a late round pick.

That's an overstatement. First off, I was suggesting a deal where they take on part of his 5 mil bonus this year, not ALL of his cap hit. Even as someone who never liked Lloyd or the deal to bring him here, I can see that he has SOME value in that kind of a deal. And Detroit tried to sign Kevin Curtis, so I could see them possibly having interest ina player of Lloyd's caliber.

[skinsn24]

That's an overstatement. First off, I was suggesting a deal where they take on part of his 5 mil bonus this year, not ALL of his cap hit. Even as someone who never liked Lloyd or the deal to bring him here, I can see that he has SOME value in that kind of a deal. And Detroit tried to sign Kevin Curtis, so I could see them possibly having interest ina player of Lloyd's caliber.

Didnt Detriot just resign Furrey and sign Mcdonald to go along with Roy Williams? Explain to me why they would be willing to take part of a huge cap hit and then play a huge contract out to the number 6 pick? Or how would the redskins be able to take a huge cap hit and then sign the number 2 pick?

[D-Day]

To move to number 2 it will cost

The past, present, and future. If you trade springs then congrats you just opened up another hole to fill, trade betts same thing. Lloyd you will need to figure out how to absorb a 9 mil cap hit this year + sign a player for 50 + mil with about 18 in guarantees.

Most likely next years 1st and at least next years 3rd + plus of course our 6

[Hooper]

Lloyd has an attitude problem. Combine that with his lack of production last year and the guaranteed money he has left on his contract and you couldn't give the guy away.

[sableholic]

1000 pt differential on the ol' draft chart which equates to a #16 pick in the first round. Not sure who we could trade to them player wise to cover that, possibly Lloyd and Springs?

[21KillzCowboys]

My dream scenario:
#6
2008 3rd round pick
B. Lloyd (cap hit makes this unlikely)

Probable:
#6
2008 2nd round pick

[sableholic]

My dream scenario:
#6
2008 3rd round pick
B. Lloyd (cap hit makes this unlikely)

Probable:
#6
2008 2nd round pick

Thats a good dream. Like I said the pts difference equates to a #16 pick, no way we can just give them a future 2nd rounder.

[SRBFan]

Detroit holds ALL the cards here, and has 2 potential suitors (Skins and Bucs). Anyone who thinks we could switch picks with them for anything less than next years #1 and another high pick or player isn't looking at this realistically. Take this however you want to, considering the source, but Peter King stated in his TMQB column this week that he expects us to trade with Oakland for #1. We'd switch picks, giving them our #1 and #2 in next years draft, plus Antwan Randle El! Do you think it would be that much less to acquire Detroit's #2 especially considering there could very well be a bidding war?

[Rufus T Firefly]

Didnt Detriot just resign Furrey and sign Mcdonald to go along with Roy Williams? Explain to me why they would be willing to take part of a huge cap hit and then play a huge contract out to the number 6 pick? Or how would the redskins be able to take a huge cap hit and then sign the number 2 pick?

They re-signed Furrey and then continued to look at FA WRs. McDonald is a career #4/5 WR who they signed for a whopping 2 years, $2.8 mil contract. Maybe he rules out getting another WR, maybe not.

If they took on Lloyd and took ALL of his bonus from this year (which I'm not suggesting anyway), he would carry a cap figure of 1.4 mil for this year. Hardly prohibitive. In that case, our net cap hit would be around 1.6 mil from moving him, also hardly huge. So, let's not make it out that this carries such monstrous cap ramifications that it's completely out of the question, OK?

And the two teams are in line to draft #2 and #6. Those players have to fit into the rookie cap anyway. Acting like fitting those picks under the cap somehow rules out doing anything else is just a bit of an exagerration.

[Hooper]

An aging corner with injury problems and an underachieving receiver with a fairly big contract and a huge attitude? That ain't gonna get us anywhere near the number two spot.

Wait, we are talking about one of the few front offices dumber than ours.

Of course, if we trade Springs, our secondary looks even worse than before. And if it's to take CJ and not address the d-line, qbs may once again have all day to throw the ball. We better score 45 points a game next year.

I still think we stay at six or move down.

[ClintonINFORSIX26]

To move to number 2 it will cost

The past, present, and future. If you trade springs then congrats you just opened up another hole to fill, trade betts same thing. Lloyd you will need to figure out how to absorb a 9 mil cap hit this year + sign a player for 50 + mil with about 18 in guarantees.

Most likely next years 1st and at least next years 3rd + plus of course our 6

Springs has always been a hole at CB....hes always hurt

[21KillzCowboys]

Thats a good dream. Like I said the pts difference equates to a #16 pick, no way we can just give them a future 2nd rounder.

Yes, a cut and dry look at the situation says that. BUT, if Detroit doesn't receive a better offer and are equally happy with getting Quinn, Peterson, or Thomas, then they very well may move for the future 2nd rounder.

[Flycoach]

Hypothetical:

We want to trade with Detroit to get #2 in order to draft Calvin Johnson. Note - the purpose of this thread is not to discuss the merit of drafting Johnson. Not being an expert, I wanted to know what we would have to offer to have Detriot consider trading places with us in the first round. There is speculation that Detroit wants to move down in the first round - they do not want to pick at #2.

What would we have to offer that could make this happen? Tampa Bay has also been rumored to be interested in moving up. What would we have to offer to entice Detroit to move down to 6?

Possibilities:
#6
#1 Next Year
Ladell Betts (still young, great running back, great contract)
Carlos Rogers (young CB with potential)

I'm guessing next years #1 and Antwaan Randel El.

[D-Day]

They re-signed Furrey and then continued to look at FA WRs. McDonald is a career #4/5 WR who they signed for a whopping 2 years, $2.8 mil contract. Maybe he rules out getting another WR, maybe not.

If they took on Lloyd and took ALL of his bonus from this year (which I'm not suggesting anyway), he would carry a cap figure of 1.4 mil for this year. Hardly prohibitive. In that case, our net cap hit would be around 1.6 mil from moving him, also hardly huge. So, let's not make it out that this carries such monstrous cap ramifications that it's completely out of the question, OK?:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:


And the two teams are in line to draft #2 and #6. Those players have to fit into the rookie cap anyway. Acting like fitting those picks under the cap somehow rules out doing anything else is just a bit of an exagerration.

Well considering we have paid him 9 mil in bonus money that is what it will cost to trade him, like some team is going to pick up 9 mil bonus, + his attitude, + his lack of production and us not have to compensate them for taking him. Yeah how would we feel if our team did that. As you have so said about many others posts, how stupid of a idea is that.

How can you not suggest they take the whole bonus figure and then use what his cap hit would be if they did as a way to support your argument.

:rolleyes:

[D-Day]

Springs has always been a hole at CB....hes always hurt

Question though, who else is left. Trade springs for a move up to #2, then we have to trade down or have probably a 5th rd qb or GASP Jimoh as our nickleback with noone behind them.

BTW springs was hurt last year because they tried to avoid surgery last offseason which bit us in the arse.

[fdarugar]

Ugh, how bout we don't mortgage the future and stand pat at #6...my dream scenario, TRADE DOWN.

[ClintonINFORSIX26]

How about we just take Adams, Okoye, Anderson on of the stud DL at the 6th pick and we will be fine this season

[shagman]

This years first and sixth round, and next years first (which hopefully will be a glorified 2nd if we can get back on track) Thats a pretty good deal for the Lions but I doubt CJ would be available at #2. I think he will be picked up at #1 by the Raiders or somebody willing to move up

[Oldskool]

http://johnbokma.com/mexit/2005/03/31/mannequin-arm.jpg

http://www.funkypancake.com/blog/stuff3/2006/04/DSC09287-thumb.jpg

And its not worth it and neither is Calvin Johnson

[D-Day]

How about we just take Adams, Okoye, Anderson on of the stud DL at the 6th pick and we will be fine this season

Amen


Ugh, how bout we don't mortgage the future and stand pat at #6...my dream scenario, TRADE DOWN.

Double Yep

I don't care if we trade down for Briggs, allen, grant, smith or whoever. Just do not trade away anything we currently have for one player. We have few positions of depth of this team and everyone wants to trade what we do have for a player a really don't need. Don't get me wrong CJ would be a great addition and I have been screaming for a big WR all offseason. But to say Briggs is a luxury we can't afford when we could still address DL at 31 and then most of the same people are in this thread wanting us to trade next years draft and depth for Johnson.

I just don't get it.

[skinsn24]

They re-signed Furrey and then continued to look at FA WRs. McDonald is a career #4/5 WR who they signed for a whopping 2 years, $2.8 mil contract. Maybe he rules out getting another WR, maybe not.
Point 1: So if they have a 1,2, and 4 (according to you) why would they be sooo hot to trade for a number 3 WR? There are plently of average players that can be signed/will be there June
If they took on Lloyd and took ALL of his bonus from this year (which I'm not suggesting anyway), he would carry a cap figure of 1.4 mil for this year. Hardly prohibitive. In that case, our net cap hit would be around 1.6 mil from moving him, also hardly huge. So, let's not make it out that this carries such monstrous cap ramifications that it's completely out of the question, OK? Point 2: You are correct that if Detriot takes ALL of his bonus it would not be a problem for the skins and i know you "are not suggesting it" but you are using it as a way the deal is possible for the skins, you say
So, let's not make it out that this carries such monstrous cap ramifications that it's completely out of the question, OK? But that would make it compleltly out of the question for Detriot. I mean Lloyd just got a 5 mill roster bonus (which Arch gave up) plus the majority of his 5 mill signing bonus, meaning the cap hit for this year alone for Lloyd is around 9 mill for detriot to take. Are you serious? Add points 1 and 2 together and 9 mill for 1 year for a number 3 Wr...sounds a little strange
And the two teams are in line to draft #2 and #6. Those players have to fit into the rookie cap anyway. Acting like fitting those picks under the cap somehow rules out doing anything else is just a bit of an exagerration. Let look at the contracts the number 2 and 6 got last year...(this is not the NBA)
Number 2: Reggie Bush 6-year, $51 milllion ($26.2 million guaranteed)
Number 6: Vernon Davis 5 year 23 Million ($15 mill Guaranteed) and hes a TE!

So do you really think Detriot is going to just shell out around 24 million?(before the rise in contracts that happens every year)

Those are big contracts very big

[BLEED-B&G]

the only way it makes sense is to trade our pick and loyd, that way you open up a spot for CJ

as soon as we make that move Oakland picks CJ....

[skinsn24]

:cheers:
Ugh, how bout we don't mortgage the future and stand pat at #6...my dream scenario, TRADE DOWN.:applause:

Why again do we want to trade up?

[Hooper]

Brandon Lloyd has about as much trade value as I do right now, and I'm not even in the NFL.

But mods, tell Mr. Snyder I'm available. Ran a 5.6 forty in college and catch bench press 225 pounds... with lots of help. And my hands, my hands, not since Robert Royal vs. the Chargers have you seen such pass catching ability.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Well considering we have paid him 9 mil in bonus money that is what it will cost to trade him, like some team is going to pick up 9 mil bonus, + his attitude, + his lack of production and us not have to compensate them for taking him. Yeah how would we feel if our team did that. As you have so said about many others posts, how stupid of a idea is that.

How can you not suggest they take the whole bonus figure and then use what his cap hit would be if they did as a way to support your argument.

:rolleyes:

Really? I mentioned what it would cost the two teams IF the entire 5 mil bonus was transeferred. Bringing that up as the starting point, while suggesting that maybe PART of it could be transferred instead. You really telling me you couldn't grasp that?

And then you talk solely in terms of the 9 mil figure as the only option, in complete contrast to what I said.

Are you honestly telling me you think that was what I was saying? No, you were clearly choosing ignorance as an argument tool.

But, you're right. In an offseason where Kevin Curtis (three years older than Lloyd, and with less career receiving yards) got 9.5 mil guaranteed, and Donte Stallworth walked out of rehab to 3.6 mil, it can't POSSIBLY BE SUGGESTED that MAYBE a team MIGHT have some interest in taking on Lloyd and paying in the area of 3-4 mil guaranteed. Clearly that is too preposterous to be mentioned on a message board as being somwhat possible.

My apologies.

[CallMeGreen]

http://johnbokma.com/mexit/2005/03/31/mannequin-arm.jpg

http://www.funkypancake.com/blog/stuff3/2006/04/DSC09287-thumb.jpg

And its not worth it and neither is Calvin Johnson

Ahhh. Someone that gave this question the seriousness it deserves. Although CJ is probably the only one worth moving up for, I don't see that happening. Knowing Detroit's own history of picking receivers, that's who they'll take if they keep the 2.

BTW, shouldn't it be "Playoffs"? What's a "Paloff"?

[Oldskool]

BTW, shouldn't it be "Playoffs"? What's a "Paloff"?

paloffs is a joke within the forums..

[skinsn24]

Really? I mentioned what it would cost the two teams IF the entire 5 mil bonus was transeferred. Bringing that up as the starting point, while suggesting that maybe PART of it could be transferred instead. You really telling me you couldn't grasp that?

And then you talk solely in terms of the 9 mil figure as the only option, in complete contrast to what I said.

Are you honestly telling me you think that was what I was saying? No, you were clearly choosing ignorance as an argument tool. :doh: :doh:

Umm i think it is pretty clear that your whole argument is contigent on Detriot taking the cap hit. :doh: Now i know you said that is a big IF, but you have no point without the IF.:doh: So dont get mad at people for telling you, how impossible that IF is. Dont take it personal.:D

Ps. Its way more than 5 million. You have to add his signing bonus (5mill, 4 left on it) plus his brand new 5 mill roster bonus. That is 9 mill. The difference between this and other Wrs getting that money is, the 9 mill would have to hit RIGHT NOW, where as the other guys money get spread over the life of the contract. Dont be angery, be happy:laugh:

[Rufus T Firefly]

Point 1: So if they have a 1,2, and 4 (according to you) why would they be sooo hot to trade for a number 3 WR? There are plently of average players that can be signed/will be there June Point 2: You are correct that if Detriot takes ALL of his bonus it would not be a problem for the skins and i know you "are not suggesting it" but you are using it as a way the deal is possible for the skins, you say But that would make it compleltly out of the question for Detriot. I mean Lloyd just got a 5 mill roster bonus (which Arch gave up) plus the majority of his 5 mill signing bonus, meaning the cap hit for this year alone for Lloyd is around 9 mill for detriot to take. Are you serious? Add points 1 and 2 together and 9 mill for 1 year for a number 3 Wr...sounds a little strange Let look at the contracts the number 2 and 6 got last year...(this is not the NBA)
Number 2: Reggie Bush 6-year, $51 milllion ($26.2 million guaranteed)
Number 6: Vernon Davis 5 year 23 Million ($15 mill Guaranteed) and hes a TE!

So do you really think Detriot is going to just shell out around 24 million?(before the rise in contracts that happens every year)

Those are big contracts very big

They talked to Kevin Curtis, who was clearly going to get a big contract. Why? I would assume because they were interested in adding a WR. Are they still, aftger signing a cheap #4? How do I know? I jsut said maybe it's possible. I wouldn't if I was them, but I wouldn't have courted Curtis in the first place if I were them.

Again, I suggested that some kind of deal would have to worked out with Lloyd and Detroit where they took on part of his 5 mil bonus this year, not the whole 10 mil. Would Lloyd do this? Would Detroit? Again, I don't know. I just said it's POSSIBLE. Using the 9 mil figure is beyond irrelevant, as I said what the cap figures would be if Detroit took on the 5 mil only.

And even from that false premise, you suggest that they couldn't possibly afford that 24 mil, and instead they would pay 26+ mil to the number two pick because they couldn't afford the other option? What?

[ClintonINFORSIX26]

This year's No. 6 CPortis and next year's No. 1 will do it.

Hope thats a joke...

[D-Day]

Really? I mentioned what it would cost the two teams IF the entire 5 mil bonus was transeferred. Bringing that up as the starting point, while suggesting that maybe PART of it could be transferred instead. You really telling me you couldn't grasp that?

And then you talk solely in terms of the 9 mil figure as the only option, in complete contrast to what I said.

Are you honestly telling me you think that was what I was saying? No, you were clearly choosing ignorance as an argument tool. The difference between you and me and is that I can admit when I am wrong and not round about attack people.

But, you're right. In an offseason where Kevin Curtis (three years older than Lloyd, and with less career receiving yards) got 9.5 mil guaranteed, and Donte Stallworth walked out of rehab to 3.6 mil, it can't POSSIBLY BE SUGGESTED that MAYBE a team MIGHT have some interest in taking on Lloyd and paying in the area of 3-4 mil guaranteed. Clearly that is too preposterous to be mentioned on a message board as being somwhat possible.

My apologies.

You don't give other people the same respect and if you disagree with them you routinely attack their posts as dumb and ignorant, you do it on the fringes of calling people those things but it is a pretty lame attempt to hide your discontent for ideas that clash with yours.

Now onto the topic.

I did misread that part, but you still want the skins to take a 4 mil hit plus pay as the poster above stated above and pay 23.5 mil I believe is what bush got, plus about 10%.

Realistically the 9 mil figure is the only reasonable option, no team is that dumb to pay 5 mil bonus and give Lloyd a new contract as is tradition for some reason. Also you said that you are not assuming he will give back the 5 mil bonus but then you still go on and assume he will when supporting your argument, so you still are saying we will absorb the 9 mil cap hit. Unless you are saying the Lions write us a check for 5 mil which I am not sure that has ever happened in football in the last 15 years at least, baseball yes.

So you just reword the argument and choose bash someone again for just disagreeing with you. Why do you get offensiv and start to call people names when they point out a flaw in your argument.

I can't figure out how people can think BL is an attractive offer for another team.

[Howeda24]

Guys, stop it. This is rediculous because you all know we are not drafting Offense. If we draft anyone other than Alan Branch or the 19 year old DT from Louisville, I would be highly dissapointed. I don't like picking a DE either because if you get a big(6'6", 330lbs.) DT like Branch, it will make the DE's we currently have that much more productive . Just food for thought people so stop dreaming about the sexy pick like Snyder and Cerrato do.......

:dallasuck

[Howeda24]

Guys, stop it. This is rediculous because you all know we are not drafting Offense. If we draft anyone other than Alan Branch or the 19 year old DT from Louisville, I would be highly dissapointed. I don't like picking a DE either because if you get a big(6'6", 330lbs.) DT like Branch, it will make the DE's we currently have that much more productive . Just food for thought people so stop dreaming about the sexy pick like Snyder and Cerrato do.......
:dallasuck

[Howeda24]

Guys, stop it. This is rediculous because you all know we are not drafting Offense. If we draft anyone other than Alan Branch or the 19 year old DT from Louisville, I would be highly dissapointed. I don't like picking a DE either because if you get a big(6'6", 330lbs.) DT like Branch, it will make the DE's we currently have that much more productive . Just food for thought people so stop dreaming about the sexy pick like Snyder and Cerrato do.......

[Rufus T Firefly]

Now onto the topic.

I did misread that part, but you still want the skins to take a 4 mil hit plus pay as the poster above stated above and pay 23.5 mil I believe is what bush got, plus about 10%.

Realistically the 9 mil figure is the only reasonable option, no team is that dumb to pay 5 mil bonus and give Lloyd a new contract as is tradition for some reason.

I can't figure out how people can think BL is an attractive offer for another team.

I know you know the net hit would be around 1.6 mil if another team took on the 5 mil bonus, so you're using of the "4 mil hit" comment is clearly designed to mislead.

And you're right. There is no way the Redskins could pay a 25 guaranteed. Instead, maybe we'll trade the pick for Briggs and give him that much, because we could afford that.

As for the "tradition" of players getting new contracts in this situation, I can only assume you're referring to Archuleta, who took a shorter, smaller deal from Chicago to get that deal done (but with the same guarantee). Don't see how that even relates here, but if it did, it would mean the opposite of what you're suggesting.

I'm done with this. I simply put Lloyd in a list of things that MIGHT be options Detroit would want, and that it was only possible if a contract re-working was done with it. People want to twist and spin that and make a huge argument over it, go ahead. I don't see any reason to continue talking about it. I don't ewven want us to look at trading up in the first place.

[#21Taylor4Ever]

Springs and our 1st, for #2 and a 5th rounder.

Ya see, real life IS like fantasy sports!!!!! Haha!

[[[ghost]]]

I could do our first this year, and our second, but parting with 2 1sts for 4 spots seems like too much for me.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

Too much!!!

[Justsomeguy]

God I am just ready to get the whole offseason business over and done with. We have a good schedule this year.

[brianm23]

I'm guessing next years #1 and Antwaan Randel El.

What other franchise out there would have gave Randel El the contract we gave him? I bet he and his agent both laughed their asses off on the plane ride back to Pittsburgh. Nobody will take a gimmick player for that type of money. You guys are scrapping the bottom of the barrel. Nobody wants Lloyd, Springs, or El. Springs would be the most attractive, but as said previously, he stays hurt too much.

[D-Day]

I know you know the net hit would be around 1.6 mil if another team took on the 5 mil bonus, so you're using of the "4 mil hit" comment is clearly designed to mislead. That is what we owe him from his original SB last year so how is that misleading?

And you're right. There is no way the Redskins could pay a 25 guaranteed. Instead, maybe we'll trade the pick for Briggs and give him that much, because we could afford that.

As for the "tradition" of players getting new contracts in this situation, I can only assume you're referring to Archuleta, who took a shorter, smaller deal from Chicago to get that deal done (but with the same guarantee). Don't see how that even relates here, but if it did, it would mean the opposite of what you're suggesting. Portis, Champ, Moss, the other moss, Bly - just off the top of my head but if you trade for someone there is always a contract redo involved.

I'm done with this. I simply put Lloyd in a list of things that MIGHT be options Detroit would want, and that it was only possible if a contract re-working was done with it. People want to twist and spin that and make a huge argument over it, go ahead. I don't see any reason to continue talking about it. I don't ewven want us to look at trading up in the first place.

So we agree then.

[Justsomeguy]

CJ would be nice though. I just don't know at what cost that would be nice.:2cents:

[brianm23]

CJ would be nice though. I just don't know at what cost that would be nice.:2cents:

It would not be worth giving up next years #1 pick. After all, with the team we have currently, we have a good chance to be in the top 5 of next years draft. (bad OL/DL = bad outcomes)

[Rufus T Firefly]

[/b]

Portis, Champ, Moss, the other moss, Bly - just off the top of my head but if you trade for someone there is always a contract redo involved.


Seriously? Those are guys whose contracts had expired, or were about to. In fact, that was the reaosn most of them were traded in the first place.

Do you need to see list of players who were traded and then DIDN'T get new contracts? Duckett and Rumph just from the last year and using our team only.

[GibbsFactor]

The second pick is worth 2600 points.

The sixth pick is worth 1600 points.

We need to swap and come up with 1000 points which is the equivlent of the #16th overall selection.

[Fifty Gut]

NEITHER Betts nor Rogers are available, sorry

[lavar1156]

Guys, stop it. This is rediculous because you all know we are not drafting Offense. If we draft anyone other than Alan Branch or the 19 year old DT from Louisville, I would be highly dissapointed. I don't like picking a DE either because if you get a big(6'6", 330lbs.) DT like Branch, it will make the DE's we currently have that much more productive . Just food for thought people so stop dreaming about the sexy pick like Snyder and Cerrato do.......

If your dumb enough to think that Gibbs isn't enamored with Calvin Johnson then you need to do somethin. Gibbs wants Johnson. If someome offers us a top pick for next years the #6, next years first, and a player I think the 'Skins will jump on it.

[Gary Clark Fan]

I just cant believe how dumb are FO is. Why Why Why would they be lookin to trade up and take an offensive player. Just trade down vinny and call it a day.

[lavar1156]

I just cant believe how dumb are FO is. Why Why Why would they be lookin to trade up and take an offensive player. Just trade down vinny and call it a day.


I don't think Vinny will be calling the shots on draft day.

[WileCoyote]

This is assuming the briggs trade doesn't happen..... and also according to espn were also interested in Russel.....

[tizzod]

To get Eli, the Giants gave up Rivers, that year's third rounder, and a first and a fifth the following year. If I remember correctly that was from going from 4 to 1. Going from 6 to 2 will be equally as painful I'm sure. And we don't have a third this year, do we?

[deejaydana]

WOW. opinions are all over the board on this proposed move, some say we would have to give up 2 future first rounders AND a present player (does anyone else think that's incredibly steep?). I do know that CJ is BY FAR the most coveted player, and justifiably so---he will dominate for years to come. I would love to see the guy in Burgundy and Gold come next season, but we have bigger needs at this time. Thoughts?

[WileCoyote]

Well if you see that once in a blue moon player you go for it despite your draft needs.....

[SonOfWashington]

wed probably trade our #6 and springs...possibly another pick. but come on. are we THAT desperate to draft calvin johnson with the false interpretation that hes suddenly our messiah?

[Hooper]

How many can't miss wideouts have missed the last decade?

More than haven't.

[GibbsFactor]

WOW. opinions are all over the board on this proposed move, some say we would have to give up 2 future first rounders AND a present player (does anyone else think that's incredibly steep?). I do know that CJ is BY FAR the most coveted player, and justifiably so---he will dominate for years to come. I would love to see the guy in Burgundy and Gold come next season, but we have bigger needs at this time. Thoughts?

Swap and next years first would get it done.

[Fan since a Fetus]

I would also love to see CJ in Burgandy and Gold. However, there are more important issues such as DL and Safety. I am not ready to give up on Lloyd just yet, but if we get CJ, I wouldn't be ticked in any way. We also need to start thinking about a future CB and youth on the OL.

During the Bly scenarios, I heard Detroit really liked Springs. I think him, our 6th pick, and a 2nd or 3rd next year for the Detroit's 2nd pick this year. Also, I don't think we would get much for an aging corner that was hurt almost all of last year.

Furthermore, I don't think we are going to give up on Lloyd. I really doubt he would be traded, in fact I would be totally shocked. He is very gifted, he just needs to grow up alot!!! On top of that, the Skins would have to admit to two mistakes last year, AA being the other. I don't think that is going to happen.

[deejaydana]

you know it's ironic, if we'd just exercised a bit more prudence in the past we would have our full compliment of later round picks to make a move up in the draft and not have to mortgage our entire future through that effort. As it is, we have little room for error because we've already shipped out almost all of this year's draft. One player does not a team make, don't expect a #6 or a #2 to turn the team around. I would just love it if we could only realize that it's "teams" and not AllStars that win championships.

[pjfootballer]

I'd say this year's #6 and next year's 2nd. They're only moving down 4 slots. Giving up Springs is suicide. We need him to start.

[Veretax]

I would say that the #6 plus our #1 next year would do it. Detroit needs a QB first and foremost and Quinn will still be available at #6.

If they want a player thrown in, I doubt that Joe Gibbs will want to lose either Carlos or Ladell.

I guess it depends on how valuable Calvin Johnson is to our staff though.

The lions signed Tatum Bell and Duckett, they don't need betts. SO throw that one out. They may need help at Dback, but I don't think they want springs or Carlos. Not after last years performance


I think it would be whatever Tampa is willing to give to move up. They are the most logical choice to get CJ...unfortuneatly for us they have more picks than we do that they could trade, at least in this year's draft.

As far as players I'd give up...Brondon Lloyde, Rock Cartwright, Shawn Springs.

How about swapping picks and next year's 3rd rounder


Tampa may not necessarily take CJ. I think the key to the SB run a few years ago was Tampas DLine. They are really old, way older then we are, and I think they take Branch or Adams or Anderson.

Could they still take CJ sure they could, but I think Gruden needs someone that can contribute now, and while their offense was bad last year, it wasn't statistically so much. With Simms and Garcia in there I think their QB woes will be fixed

[pjfootballer]

Detroit holds ALL the cards here, and has 2 potential suitors (Skins and Bucs). Anyone who thinks we could switch picks with them for anything less than next years #1 and another high pick or player isn't looking at this realistically. Take this however you want to, considering the source, but Peter King stated in his TMQB column this week that he expects us to trade with Oakland for #1. We'd switch picks, giving them our #1 and #2 in next years draft, plus Antwan Randle El! Do you think it would be that much less to acquire Detroit's #2 especially considering there could very well be a bidding war?

I'm not calling you out, but Peter Queen says Randle El. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Randle El and Lloyd sign essentailly the same deal. If we deal Lloyd this year, we take a 9 million dollar cap hit. wouldn't it be the same for Randle El?

[pjfootballer]

Hope thats a joke...

Actually it's not. He hates Portis and is in love with Calvin Johnson.

[skinsn24]

They talked to Kevin Curtis, who was clearly going to get a big contract. Why? I would assume because they were interested in adding a WR. Are they still, aftger signing a cheap #4? How do I know? I jsut said maybe it's possible. I wouldn't if I was them, but I wouldn't have courted Curtis in the first place if I were them. Hmm, no offense, but check you dates first. Kevin Curtis signed march 15 with the iggles. The Lions signed Mcdonald on the March 19th.:doh: I believe they were looking at either one for the 3 spot and decided Mickey Dees was the better value.
Again, I suggested that some kind of deal would have to worked out with Lloyd and Detroit where they took on part of his 5 mil bonus this year, not the whole 10 mil. Would Lloyd do this? Would Detroit? Again, I don't know. I just said it's POSSIBLE. Using the 9 mil figure is beyond irrelevant, as I said what the cap figures would be if Detroit took on the 5 mil only.? In your first post you actaully said Detriot would take ALL of the 5 mill bonus, but fine lets say they take part of that, who takes the 4 mill left from his signing bonus?
And even from that false premise, you suggest that they couldn't possibly afford that 24 mil, and instead they would pay 26+ mil to the number two pick because they couldn't afford the other option? What? Again, I will make this simple. Any hit the Lions take from Lloyd (who has no trade value) would be taken this year. That means anywhere form 5-9 million would be taken. Then they would have to sign a rookie to a 24-25 million dollar deal at the 6 spot. The difference in money between the 2 and 6 can be prorated over the life of the contract. The point here is taking an additional 5-9 million for Lloyd would make it almost impossible from them to sign either the 2 or 6 pick. It is too much money tied into a 3rd or 4th wr.

Now that you know that Mcdonald was signed after Curtis was off the market, why do they want Lloyd????

[mistertim]

Actually it's not. He hates Portis and is in love with Calvin Johnson.

He hates Portis? And here I thought I had heard everything...

[Mister Happy]

According to this NFL draft value chart:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/6330687

and the standard practice of counting next year's 1st rounder as this year's 2nd rounder, etc.

We have the following values for 2007 and 2008:

2007 pick #6 - 1600
2007 pick #143 - 34.5
2007 pick #179 - 19.8
2007 pick #205 - 9.4
2007 pick #216 - 5

2008 1st round pick - 520
2008 2nd round pick - 240
2008 3rd round pick - 92
2008 4th round pick - 39
2008 5th round pick - 25
2008 6th round pick - 12.2

Total Value: 2596.9

Value of Pick #2: 2600

That's going strictly off the value chart.

If we had our 2nd or even 3rd round pick, it be a lot easier, but for now, we'd need to throw in at least 1 of our players.

[skinsn24]

Do not move up to number 2, i repeat, do not move up to number 2, we need more players, more depth, more youth, not just 1 dude

[TotalRecall]

I think you all should forget about Calvin Johnson. It would take too much in picks to move up to get him. I hear there are many big and fast WRs in this draft, so moving up to get him is pointless.

Stay focused and stick to our pressing needs.

[SkinzFan007]

id give up our first this year and next year and a third/lloyd/betts

[revallenjr]

http://johnbokma.com/mexit/2005/03/31/mannequin-arm.jpg

http://www.funkypancake.com/blog/stuff3/2006/04/DSC09287-thumb.jpg

And its not worth it and neither is Calvin Johnson

That is hilarious:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[FtheCowboys84]

Disturbing but hillarious.

[Seabee1973]

Brandon Lloyd has about as much trade value as I do right now, and I'm not even in the NFL.

But mods, tell Mr. Snyder I'm available. Ran a 5.6 forty in college and catch bench press 225 pounds... with lots of help. And my hands, my hands, not since Robert Royal vs. the Chargers have you seen such pass catching ability.


That is good enough for snyder to sign you to a 5 yr 20 million 8 guarenteed

[DRSmith]

I heard we were going for third.

[Seabee1973]

Seriously? Those are guys whose contracts had expired, or were about to. In fact, that was the reaosn most of them were traded in the first place.

Do you need to see list of players who were traded and then DIDN'T get new contracts? Duckett and Rumph just from the last year and using our team only.

I know Portis still had about 3 years left on his contract and moss had 2 I believe

[Seabee1973]

Swap and next years whole draft would get it done.


fixed your post for you

[Smurf85]

This years first and next years first.We would also probably have to throw in another pick to go with that.I think the Lions have like 4 5th round picks this year.I know they love those so throw in a 5th that should do it.I mean they would only move down to 6th.They would be able to pick who ever they wanted there.

[Siven]

I think it would be whatever Tampa is willing to give to move up. They are the most logical choice to get CJ...unfortuneatly for us they have more picks than we do that they could trade, at least in this year's draft.

As far as players I'd give up...Brondon Lloyde, Rock Cartwright, Shawn Springs.

How about swapping picks and next year's 3rd rounder

rock cartwright, way to give up a guy many consider a core redskin

[Siven]

some of you people are crazy, giving away good plasyers for someone who hasnt ever played a down.

[Rufus T Firefly]

I know Portis still had about 3 years left on his contract and moss had 2 I believe

No, Moss had a year left. I think Portis had two, but had been grumbling for a new contract since his rookie year. Which is basically my point, the contract was an issue in him being dealt. And with Moss, you trade for a guy a year from FA, you're going to want to extend him.

[skinsn24]

Seriously? Those are guys whose contracts had expired, or were about to. In fact, that was the reaosn most of them were traded in the first place.

Do you need to see list of players who were traded and then DIDN'T get new contracts? Duckett and Rumph just from the last year and using our team only. Rufus, you cant just add circumstances left and right every time someone points out a falicy in your arguement. Ducket and Rumph are jokes, i hope you know this.

PLayers traded that got new deals off the top of my head: Moss, Randy Moss, Champ, Portis, Lloyd, Javon Walker, Archuleta, the list goes on and on. The reason is simple, either the player wants a new deal or the team needs to rework the deal to fit with their cap structure.

As i reported earlier, Detriot signed Mcdonald and reuped with Furrey, they will not take LLoyd in the deal.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Hmm, no offense, but check you dates first. Kevin Curtis signed march 15 with the iggles. The Lions signed Mcdonald on the March 19th.:doh:

No, actually, that was only the date the McDonald contract was made official.
http://www.mlive.com/lions/stories/index.ssf?/base/sports-1/1173924604313660.xml&coll=1
In spite of that headline, read these quotes from that article:
"The Lions haven't completely slammed the door on signing Curtis, but have made it clear they won't get into any bidding wars for his services. If Curtis wants to play for Detroit and comes in at the right price, with the right attitude, the team will still try to sign him."
"Since the start of the free agency signing period on March 2, the Lions signed four players -- defensive end Dewayne White (Tampa Bay Buccaneers), wide receiver Shaun McDonald (St. Louis Rams), cornerback Travis Fisher (Rams) and running back T.J. Duckett (Washington Redskins)."

So, again, McDonald was singed, but an offer to Curtis remained on the table.

BTW, Matt Moseley on hsi chat mentioned that "his guy with the Lions" said they want to take Calvin Johnson, but won't because they don't want to be made fun of for picking another WR high in the draft.

Again, all I ever suggested was that maybe Detroit would be interested in a WR, and that it's possible Lloyd could be involved in a trade package IF we deal with them. The fact that you have tried to continue this argument so long is ridiculous. Apparently, you're claiming a 100% knowledge of everything the Lions are thinking, and that it can't possibly be suggested that that could be on the list of options. Congrats on your omniscience.



In your first post you actaully said Detriot would take ALL of the 5 mill bonus

I never said that. Don't put words in my mouth, please.



but fine lets say they take part of that, who takes the 4 mill left from his signing bonus? Again, I will make this simple. Any hit the Lions take from Lloyd (who has no trade value) would be taken this year. That means anywhere form 5-9 million would be taken. Then they would have to sign a rookie to a 24-25 million dollar deal at the 6 spot. The difference in money between the 2 and 6 can be prorated over the life of the contract. The point here is taking an additional 5-9 million for Lloyd would make it almost impossible from them to sign either the 2 or 6 pick. It is too much money tied into a 3rd or 4th wr.

There are a whole lot of things wrong here. Assuming the Lions took on his 5 mil bonus from this year, that would be prorated over the remainder of his contract. His cap figure would be around 1.4 mil this year. Don't have any idea why you think they have to take that whole cap hit this year, but you're wrong. That cap figure is peanuts, so it doen't effect signing a draft pick at all.

In that scenario, the Redskins would take a 4 mil hit from the first bonus. Since Lloyd was going to count 2.4+ mil this year, that is a net hit of less than 1.6 mil this year. Again, peanuts.

What I was suggesting (agian, IF they were interested in Lloyd, and IF Lloyd would agree, and IF the two teams were interested in swapping draft spots and IF the rest of the trade could be worked out), was that Detroit could take on maybe 3.5 mil of the bonus, with Washington taking on the other 1.5 mil. Then, the net hit to the Skins would be a little over 3 mil.

You're way off if you think that effects the draft picks. Detroit would be paying a lot less in bonuses to Lloyd and the #6 than the #2. And Washington would be taking a 3-3.1 mil hit, while getting the #2 pick (whose first year cap figure has to fit under the rookie cap anyway). Which would hardly be more, in either 2007 cap space, or in bonuses, than they would likely give Briggs and the #31 pick.

Again, on the list of things that might possibly theoretically maybe could be slightly somewhat less than impossible, the cap problems are easily workable.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Rufus, you cant just add circumstances left and right every time someone points out a falicy in your arguement. Ducket and Rumph are jokes, i hope you know this.

PLayers traded that got new deals off the top of my head: Moss, Randy Moss, Champ, Portis, Lloyd, Javon Walker, Archuleta, the list goes on and on. The reason is simple, either the player wants a new deal or the team needs to rework the deal to fit with their cap structure.


Are you even reading what you're responding to, or what that was in reference to???

What the quote was responding to was the suggestion that Detorit would have to give Lloyd a raise because "traded players always get new contracts, for some reason". And you want to defend that statement, in part, because "teams need to rework deal to make it fit under the cap"? Are you remotely serious?

Players are traded all the time without being given raises. And Lloyd, who is one year into a 7 year deal, would be one of them if he's dealt. Would they "re-work the deal" to LOWER his cap figure? Yeah, maybe. Is that the same as a raise? Does that REDUCE Lloyd's trade value, that they might make his cap numbers LOWER? Does that lowering of his cap figure make him "less affordable" to Detroit? Because this is what you're arguing with this post.

Apparently, all you're interested in is cherry-picking statements, taking them out of context, and arguing just for the sake of it. It's getting pretty frickin' ridiculous.

[Siven]

If your dumb enough to think that Gibbs isn't enamored with Calvin Johnson then you need to do somethin. Gibbs wants Johnson. If someome offers us a top pick for next years the #6, next years first, and a player I think the 'Skins will jump on it.


whats your proof?

[box8276]

Yall are arguing about something that is not going to happen. The only team we would trade with is the raiders and they want #6 next years 1 and 2 and EL. Why would we trade with the Lions knowing tha raiders could take CJ or trade it to someone who does want him, and even if he falls we would be pressed to make a deal with the clock running,to a team that would prolly love to pick CJ. No doubt we would screw ourselves in this scenario. But knowing our FO anything stupid is still reasonable.

[SkinsManNJ]

If we do the trade with Lions we would not give up B. Lloyd cause the Lions don't want or have a need for him. But what the Lions are interested in is Shawn Springs they wanted him when we were trying to get Dre' Bly. So if anything Springs would be in the trade talks with Detroit. So we would be losing a DB instead of WR so we can stop talking about B.Lloyd to Detroit. We might use him to get another pick later in the day or day 2.

[Hiro]

#6 and springs probably. it would be a dumbass move, but it would make sense in terms of value.

No way dude. It would take a hell of a lot more then just Springs and our pick to trade up for Calvin Johnson. We'd probably end up giving up next years 1st and possibly 2nd or 3rd.

DON'T DO IT!

[LoudMouth12thMan]

Ade Jimoh and a 6th :whoknows:

[SkinsFanAnt]

NOT POSSIBLE. The Lions would be trade places as worst FO in the league if they traded to us for anything that wouldn't benefit them immensely while totally destroying our franchise. We really don't have anything of value for them to even consider the #2 pick.

[gkekoa]

How about Santana Moss for the #2? Moss is a great player when healthy and Detroit would probably like a quality WR rather than take a chance. We would probably have to give up a little more as well. Let's throw in next year's second or third rounder. This way we can still trade the #6 pick for more picks or even do the Briggs trade.

[Meskeet21]

How about Santana Moss for the #2? Moss is a great player when healthy and Detroit would probably like a quality WR rather than take a chance. We would probably have to give up a little more as well. Let's throw in next year's second or third rounder. This way we can still trade the #6 pick for more picks or even do the Briggs trade.

:doh:

[Veretax]

Yall are arguing about something that is not going to happen. The only team we would trade with is the raiders and they want #6 next years 1 and 2 and EL. Why would we trade with the Lions knowing tha raiders could take CJ or trade it to someone who does want him, and even if he falls we would be pressed to make a deal with the clock running,to a team that would prolly love to pick CJ. No doubt we would screw ourselves in this scenario. But knowing our FO anything stupid is still reasonable.


That's way to much. Why would we trade El. Secondly, I don't see the Raiders taking CJ as long as Moss and Porter are there. Both those guys can play ball if the QB has time. They would be more likely to draft an Offensive Line Talent as CJ. That being said, if they stay there they should pick up a QB.

[Morneblade]

Stupidity. That's what it will take.

[skinsn24]

Deep Breathes there rufus, breathe deep. No need to get upset here, now i am not one to just end an arguement, but you are simply waay off the page here. I will point a few things out and then be done because i live in reality.



In spite of that headline, read these quotes from that article:
"The Lions haven't completely slammed the door on signing Curtis, but have made it clear they won't get into any bidding wars for his services. If Curtis wants to play for Detroit and comes in at the right price, with the right attitude, the team will still try to sign him." Ummm yea i read the whole article, remember im the one that had to tell you that Mcdonlad was actually signed first. Now read the bold part of the quote, now notice how they didnt sign him, so why would they be willing to pay Lloyd tons of money?

Originally Posted by skinsn24
you actaully said Detriot would take ALL of the 5 mill bonus
I never said that. Don't put words in my mouth, please. "If they took on Lloyd and took ALL of his bonus from this year".[/QUOTE]

---Go look that up, i think its on the second page of this thread, and no dont hit edit and pretend you never wrote it.



There are a whole lot of things wrong here. Assuming the Lions took on his 5 mil bonus from this year, that would be prorated over the remainder of his contract. His cap figure would be around 1.4 mil this year. Don't have any idea why you think they have to take that whole cap hit this year, but you're wrong. That cap figure is peanuts, so it doen't effect signing a draft pick at all. ...yea he is not going to have the same contract, they are going to rework the deal and Lloyd is not gonna sign some pennies contract, do you know this guys personalitly, plus detriot didnt given Curtis 9.8 so why are they gonna even come close to this with Lloyd


In that scenario, the Redskins would take a 4 mil hit from the first bonus. Since Lloyd was going to count 2.4+ mil this year, that is a net hit of less than 1.6 mil this year. Again, peanuts. Umm yeaa those are not peanuts, remember a player would have to be signed in Lloyds place, add those numbers in. What you really need to look at is the 4 mill would count .666 per year right now instead of 4 mill this year. BUt wait this is all contigent on Detriot taking all 5 of his new bonus, but you never said that right? so how is this number break down even possible?

Either way, dont be upset that the Lions passed on Curtis or that they wont take Mr. Brandon "i have no value" lloyd. I give you credit for creativiity

[Flycoach]

you guys are crazy if you think they'd give up all that....detroit would easily just take our first maybe a later day one pick and srings.....that way they can still draft a guy they want. betts and carlos? and two first rounders? you guys are crazy

I agree - no way we give up that much.

[skinsn24]

NO players are going anywhere, please let me be correct

[Rufus T Firefly]

Deep Breathes there rufus, breathe deep. No need to get upset here, now i am not one to just end an arguement, but you are simply waay off the page here. I will point a few things out and then be done because i live in reality.

Ummm yea i read the whole article, remember im the one that had to tell you that Mcdonlad was actually signed first. Now read the bold part of the quote, now notice how they didnt sign him, so why would they be willing to pay Lloyd tons of money?

Actually no, you said Curtis was signed before McDonald. Look it up. You said that as some kind of proof that they couldn't possibly be interested in another WR. As I showed, they at least had an offer to Curtis on the table after they agree with McDonald. Which at least suggests they were at least open to acquiring a high priced WR after signing McDonald, in complete contradiction of your "no way the Lions want another WR" line. And, whatever bonus they kept on teh table to Curtis would have surely been much largrer than what they would theoretcially take on with Lloyd.




Originally Posted by skinsn24
you actaully said Detriot would take ALL of the 5 mill bonus "If they took on Lloyd and took ALL of his bonus from this year".

---Go look that up, i think its on the second page of this thread, and no dont hit edit and pretend you never wrote it.

Wow. Even assuming you don't understand the meaning of the word "if", here's the actual full sentence you're quoting:
"If they took on Lloyd and took ALL of his bonus from this year (which I'm not suggesting anyway), he would carry a cap figure of 1.4 mil for this year."

Obviously you have willfully taken that out of context to create some kind of Straw Man argument.

I have shown what the cap hits would be if Detroit took on all of that 5 mil, and I've shown what would happen if they took on part of it (3.5, which I would suggest is more likely) to show that, contrary to what you've said, the cap ramifications are hardly unworkable. The fact that you're cherry-picking partial sentences to make it look like I've said something completely different is just ridiculously pathetic.



...yea he is not going to have the same contract, they are going to rework the deal and Lloyd is not gonna sign some pennies contract, do you know this guys personalitly, plus detriot didnt given Curtis 9.8 so why are they gonna even come close to this with Lloyd

If you're not good at math, 3.5 isn't really close to 9.8. Even the full 5 mil is significantly less.

Again, you're implying Lloyd woudl demand a raise after having a down year in the first year of a 7 yr contract. There's absolutely no basis for that. One more time, IF Detroit was interested in him and IF he was agreed to asa PART of a trade for the #2 pick, he could refuse, and play under his current contract, or he could do a simple re-work to let Detroit pay part of the bonus, maybe with Detroit guaranteeing an extra 100K or something, so there would be more benefit for him to accept scenario B. He has no leverage to demand more, and if he refused for whatever reason, then he would be pulled out of the deal.

You're the one claiming 100% definitive knowledge of what everyone is thinking (The Lions and now apparently Lloyd, too), which you obviously can't have. I've never claimed any such thing, just raising possibilities, which you claim (based on no, or at best, flimsy "evidence") are IMPOSSIBLE. Enjoy that indefensible position of yours.



Umm yeaa those are not peanuts, remember a player would have to be signed in Lloyds place, add those numbers in. What you really need to look at is the 4 mill would count .666 per year right now instead of 4 mill this year. BUt wait this is all contigent on Detriot taking all 5 of his new bonus, but you never said that right? so how is this number break down even possible?

Yeah. I pointed out that I was using the 5 mil figure as a starting point and showed the 3.5 mil figure as what I consider a more likely possibility, but you're ignoring that and continue to take things out of context, pretending I'm posting contradictory statements that doesn't make any sense. Pretty ridiculous.

Again, from Detroit's prospective, taking on a 3.5 bonus, and the #6 pick would cost les than the #2 pick, completely contrary to what you claimed.

For Washington, that scenario creates a 3 mil loss in cap space for one year, and they need to fit the #2 pick under the cap (again, rookie cap means his first year figure wouldn't be huge). That net hit could be less or, at worst, slightly more than Briggs and the #31 pick would cost in 07. The Redskins still have several vets who can re-work deals to create some more room this year (and CJ would take Lloyd's spot in this scenario), so again, it's workable. In the long run, it removes Lloyd completely from the cap after this year, and the #2 pick would carry cap figures that probably fall closely to what Briggs would get.

One more time, as a POSSIBLILTY, it's workable, unlike what you've claimed.


Either way, dont be upset that the Lions passed on Curtis or that they wont take Mr. Brandon "i have no value" lloyd. I give you credit for creativiity

And I give you credit for claiming to know what everyone in the NFL is thinking. Heavy is the head that carries the burden of infinite knowledge.


For the last time, to be clear:

All I ever did was say that Lloyd could MAYBE (can't stress that enough) be a part of this trade, as Detroit might be interested in another WR. And that that is predicated on Lloyd transferring that bonus money to Detroit. And, naturally, on the Lions being interested in Lloyd, which is possible, and I've never even claimed it was "likely", just possible.

Apart from that, I responded to the silly definitive "There is NO WAY Detroit could THINK about another WR" argument. If anything, I showed indications that they have been interested in another WR. I could show more, as a simple look at Detroit papers turns up all kinds of comments about the Lions looking at WRs in the draft, but why bother? Again, as merely a suggestion that they MIGHT want one, it's foolish to claim otherwise.

And then, I pointed out that the cap ramifications are far from impossible, as was claimed.

Apart from all that, all I've tried to do is defend myself from Straw Man arguments and attacks. That is all.

For the last time, I don't even want to do the trade-up. If we did, Lloyd is somewhere on the list of things that might be exchanged. And that requires Lloyd to agree to it. And, obviously, for Detroit to have interest in him, which they might, or might not. If anything, I would guess not, but who knows? (not me, and contrary to the posts here, not anyone else on this board). And even with that, he's probably a throw-in. Maybe, with us taking some of the bonus hit, he might carry the value of a 4th round pick or something.

[brianm23]

Stupidity. That's what it will take.

We have a winner!!