For all those wanting off-season changes

[mhd24]

Here is the thread for you.


First off, read the rules on the nba salary cap. It is NOTHING like the nfl cap. You can't just cut a player.


Basically, the Wizards have the following on their roster for next year:
PG's:
1) Arenas
2) Daniels (3 more years at the mle)
3) Rights to Navarro
SG's:
4) Stevenson (player option to become an UFA which he will exercise)
5) Hayes (The Wiz can extend the qualifying offer on him (which Hayes would accept in an instant) to give him a 1 year contract. However, Grunfeld would never do that since Hayes is a gigantic bust. He will 99% be an UFA
6) Mason (An UFA who will at best be a training camp invite)
7) Taylor (an UFA who will at best be a training camp invite)
SF's:
8) Butler
PF's:
9) Jamison (Has a player option to become a UFA now, but will 99% not choose to use it. He is the biggest expiring contract in the nba, with only Theo Ratliff as the only other sizeable expiring deal)
10) Blatche (He is an RFA who the Wizards can match any deal)
11) Songaila (He is signed for 3 more years at slightly less than the mle)
C's:
12) Etan (Makes more than the mle for 3 more years. Will be very hard to trade since he's a mediocre player)
13) Haywood (signed for far less than the mle for 3 more years)
14) Booth (an UFA)
15) Rights to Pecherov (06 1st rounder)
16) Ruffin (a UFA)

Basically, Arenas, Butler, Blatche, and Pecherov are here next year.

Navarro will likely be here, but the Wizards must use a portion of the mle to sign him. With him as the backup PG, I'd look to trade AD, who has boosted his trade value significantly.

Etan has negative trade value. He's too short, has stone hands (Kwame-like), can't pass, and is a poor defender). The Wizards would have to accept a Brian Cardinal type guy for him. He could be moved alongside Jamison in a bigger deal, strictly as filler.

Jamison has by far the biggest trade value, and I fell EG will trade him. The Wizards won't win with him because he's such a poor defender.

Haywood has postive trade value since he makes so much less than guys like Foyle, Etan, Jerome James, etc.

Songaila has neutral trade value.

The Wiz pick 16th in the draft and will draft a swingman. The 2g is the biggest need on the team.



My off-season plan would be:
Resign Blatche at an mle salary level.
Sign Navarro to a Songaila level contract.
Draft Rudy Fernandez at the 16th pick.

In the end though, a Jamison trade is the only way this team improves.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I don't see how Navarro is "likely" to be here. There is still a buyout of his European contract involved there.

[argentina_redskins]

They need to keep a similar roster to this year's. We just missed 2 of our best 3 players down the stretch and there's nothing you can do about that. Maybe add a little more depth, but try to resign this team that led us to the playoffs for the 3rd straight time!

[iceman330]

Wait, so we can't get rid of Brendan?!?!?

[twenty-eight]

Blatche & the MLE? Seriously?

[mhd24]

Wait, so we can't get rid of Brendan?!?!?


Why? Abe won't pay the luxary tax folks. Bredan makes peanuts, and the fans should be up in arms at Etan, who's played like garbage for three years now. Etan still can't hit a FT. He averaged fewer assists than Ruffin did last year! Etan is injury prone. Z ABUSED him this series. Etan sucks! He is a Jamison esque Defender. I'd trade him for Brian Cardinal just to get rid of him. Calvin Booth at the vet min is a much better player than Etan.

[method man]

guys it is basically either Stevenson OR Navarro. FO has to pick

[skinsfanno9]

I'd love for us to find a way to move up in the draft and get Spencer Hawes. He's got great low-post moves. Even if he only ends up being a second tier Big, this is really what we need - the threat of inside scoring, along with some blocks and rebounding.

EDIT: Package Haywood, Hayes and our pick - do we think this is enough?

[mhd24]

Blatche & the MLE? Seriously?


Yes. Some team will offer him that in the hopes he improves. EG better not resign Ruffin. EG better trade Etan. If not, OPEC and Blatche would still ride the pine. EJ loves crap like Hayes and Etan.

[hands11]

DS is most likely going to chase the money.

AD should start next year but wont because EJ is an idiot.

No big will succeed here until EJ is gone.

See you in 3 years. I cant believe we extended this guys contract. This sucks so bad.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

DS is most likely going to chase the money.

AD should start next year but wont because EJ is an idiot.

No big will succeed here until EJ is gone.

See you in 3 years. I cant believe we extended this guys contract. This sucks so bad.
Wait, so does this mean you aren't going to post again until EJ is gone?

[hands11]

Wait, so does this mean you aren't going to post again until EJ is gone?
:insane:

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

:insane:
Yeah ok. I just got my hopes up for a second. My bad.

[hands11]

Yeah ok. I just got my hopes up for a second. My bad.
:finger:

[Mr. Grundle]

Here is the thread for you.


First off, read the rules on the nba salary cap. It is NOTHING like the nfl cap. You can't just cut a player.


Basically, the Wizards have the following on their roster for next year:
PG's:
1) Arenas
2) Daniels (3 more years at the mle)
3) Rights to Navarro
SG's:
4) Stevenson (player option to become an UFA which he will exercise)
5) Hayes (The Wiz can extend the qualifying offer on him (which Hayes would accept in an instant) to give him a 1 year contract. However, Grunfeld would never do that since Hayes is a gigantic bust. He will 99% be an UFA
6) Mason (An UFA who will at best be a training camp invite)
7) Taylor (an UFA who will at best be a training camp invite)
SF's:
8) Butler
PF's:
9) Jamison (Has a player option to become a UFA now, but will 99% not choose to use it. He is the biggest expiring contract in the nba, with only Theo Ratliff as the only other sizeable expiring deal)
10) Blatche (He is an RFA who the Wizards can match any deal)
11) Songaila (He is signed for 3 more years at slightly less than the mle)
C's:
12) Etan (Makes more than the mle for 3 more years. Will be very hard to trade since he's a mediocre player)
13) Haywood (signed for far less than the mle for 3 more years)
14) Booth (an UFA)
15) Rights to Pecherov (06 1st rounder)
16) Ruffin (a UFA)

Basically, Arenas, Butler, Blatche, and Pecherov are here next year.

Navarro will likely be here, but the Wizards must use a portion of the mle to sign him. With him as the backup PG, I'd look to trade AD, who has boosted his trade value significantly.

Etan has negative trade value. He's too short, has stone hands (Kwame-like), can't pass, and is a poor defender). The Wizards would have to accept a Brian Cardinal type guy for him. He could be moved alongside Jamison in a bigger deal, strictly as filler.

Jamison has by far the biggest trade value, and I fell EG will trade him. The Wizards won't win with him because he's such a poor defender.

Haywood has postive trade value since he makes so much less than guys like Foyle, Etan, Jerome James, etc.

Songaila has neutral trade value.

The Wiz pick 16th in the draft and will draft a swingman. The 2g is the biggest need on the team.



My off-season plan would be:
Resign Blatche at an mle salary level.
Sign Navarro to a Songaila level contract.
Draft Rudy Fernandez at the 16th pick.

In the end though, a Jamison trade is the only way this team improves.

I like your offseason plan.

I would add that Stevenson, Hayes, Ruffin, Taylor, and Mason should all be let to walk.

We're probably stuck with Etan.

I don't see Haywood playing another minute in a Wiz uniform as long as EJ is coach.

With Haywood's cap-friendly deal, and Jamison's expiring contract and unbelievable playoff performance, I think the two of them together could make for a very attractive trade package. If EG is going to make a play for someone like a Gasol, it's going to involve these two.

[clathel]

Gil and #16 for Oden/Durant.....
One thing that was evident in the playoffs was that if we had Butler back we might have won a 2-3 games....Gil was more expendable if we have a true pass first PG that gives us 20pts/10asst per night. Navarro may fit that bill but he is an old rookie. 29, I think. Gil is only 25 next season but has been injured the last few seasons and one has to worry about his durability. He may be a Hughes type player. Alot of talent but always injured and he has the highest value of any player on the team so it would make sense. If we had Oden/Durant with Navarro, CB, and AJ we would almost be set but we would need to address backups at C, SG and PG and need a starting SF.

[skinsfanno9]

Gil and #16 for Oden/Durant.....
One thing that was evident in the playoffs was that if we had Butler back we might have won a 2-3 games....Gil was more expendable if we have a true pass first PG that gives us 20pts/10asst per night. Navarro may fit that bill but he is an old rookie. 29, I think. Gil is only 25 next season but has been injured the last few seasons and one has to worry about his durability. He may be a Hughes type player. Alot of talent but always injured and he has the highest value of any player on the team so it would make sense. If we had Oden/Durant with Navarro, CB, and AJ we would almost be set but we would need to address backups at C, SG and PG and need a starting SF.

Wow, just wow. You guys can't WAIT to get back to 20 win seasons, can you? Sure, lets trade an allstar for a touted freshman who hasn't played a quarter. I got sad news for you - Oden is NOT Ewing. He's going to be decent, but giving up Gil would be pretty damn insane. And yeah - Gil is expendable - just look at all the games we won after he went down, right?

[RedskinsFan06]

Gil and #16 for Oden/Durant.....
One thing that was evident in the playoffs was that if we had Butler back we might have won a 2-3 games....Gil was more expendable if we have a true pass first PG that gives us 20pts/10asst per night. Navarro may fit that bill but he is an old rookie. 29, I think. Gil is only 25 next season but has been injured the last few seasons and one has to worry about his durability. He may be a Hughes type player. Alot of talent but always injured and he has the highest value of any player on the team so it would make sense. If we had Oden/Durant with Navarro, CB, and AJ we would almost be set but we would need to address backups at C, SG and PG and need a starting SF.

Stop saying Arenas is expendable. I love how everyone here thinks there is some PG in the league who can average 20 and 10 a night other then Nash because there isn't. Navarro ain't gonna cut it and neither is AD. When it comes playoff time, without Gil, nobody on this team besides Jamsion steps up and nobody else is clutch, or can put up 50 when you need it. The heck if they can put up 20 and 10 in the reg. season because we have a star who can step up and give you 35 PPG in the playoffs along with clutch shots and that's more important. Forget this idea of a 10 APG PG because we give up too much to make it work. We have AD and Arenas. If EJ is smart, they;ll start and if no...oh well.

[RedskinsFan06]

Wow, just wow. You guys can't WAIT to get back to 20 win seasons, can you? Sure, lets trade an allstar for a touted freshman who hasn't played a quarter. I got sad news for you - Oden is NOT Ewing. He's going to be decent, but giving up Gil would be pretty damn insane. And yeah - Gil is expendable - just look at all the games we won after he went down, right?

I hear ya bro. These ideas are almost as bad as the 9/11 conspiracy theories.

[Diesel70ChipOnWhite]

I can't stand all of you Gil bashers! How quickly we forget how far he's taken us! Unbelieveable.

Back to the thread topic, if the choice is between Stevenson and Navarro i take Navarro 9 out of 10 times. Basically for this rational. He is a true ball handler, good passer and about 90%FT shooter. I thought Stevenson had a good year but id rather have Navarro. As for everybody else, i don't mind have Twan one more year with the other BIG TWO and adding Pecherov and a healthy Darius to the mix. A good draft pick and maybe a move up the draft board with a trade including Brenda - maybe we get Hibbert!

Here's to another offseason

[Chachie]

See you in 3 years.


You can't stay away from this place for 3 days. :)

[Chachie]

We need a center. A healthy Songaila will be shockingly good at the 4-spot, with Blatche (still maturing) providing big play off the bench.

Hopefully Daniels showed EJ that he can be our starting PG, which would move Gilbert to the SG position where he belongs.

This naturally places Caron at SF so tragically Jamison becomes a mystery after just showing us all how valuable he is. This is similar to our old conundrum with Chris webber and Juwan Howard. Two good players who play the same position. It will hurt to ask AJ to become our 6th man so we may have to sadly package him with Brenda to get a center unless the 7-foot euro comes in and makes a diff right away.

[NavyDave]

You still need the perimeter starters to work on their defense instead of the Matador stuff that Gilbert and company have done all season.

[Diesel70ChipOnWhite]

I almost forgot the one guy that we cannot have back next year.....

Arvis Hayes (He aint got no J) - much props to Mike Wise when i heard that one yesterday.

[arenasisgod]

I almost forgot the one guy that we cannot have back next year.....

Arvis Hayes (He aint got no J) - much props to Mike Wise when i heard that one yesterday.
At least he credited the internet.
clathel is hilarious as per usual.

Originally Posted by G.A.C.O.L.B



Yeah ok. I just got my hopes up for a second. My bad.
hahahahahahahahahah

Ernie will find a deal for Brendan. Doubt Navarro makes his way over here. Deshawn and Blatche get resigned, Pecherov and #16 play. Doubt we'll see RMJR, although he was fun, and Donnell hopefully hangs around.

[Gamebreaker]

- Trade Jamison and another bench player for a solid low post scorer
- Get rid of Hayes and Haywood
- Give Blatche more minutes
- Start Daniels and have Arenas play SG

[ACW]

I wouldn't mind keeping Ruffin. He doesn't cost that much (under 2 mil. this year), and he provided some toughness off the bench.

[RonArtest15]

I had this in another thread...I'll chime in a little later on when I get a break...

In due time, I would love to see AJ come off the bench as a 6th man.....I have a feeling that the Zards will be keeping AJ around for the remainder of is NBA career. He is a high character guy and a leader. No matter if his contract is going to be expiring or whatever, he brings too much to the table. Going back to my 6th man thought, he would be instant offense and could still chip in 13-18ppg in a year or two in coming off of the bench. Of course this is all contingent on getting a reliable low post presence by way of free agency or a trade. If we don't move AJ, then who would be a likely candidate to be traded? Some of our Euros, Blatche, future draft picks? I think we have enough in the stable to trade without having to give up AJ...he is an intrigal part of this team no matter how you look at it...he is almost indispensable...



as far as the draft, I am really high on:

http://www.taipeitimes.com/images/2006/03/13/20060312204225.jpeg







my reasons as I had stated in another thread:



Sean Williams....yeah, I know he got dismissed from BC, and had a ton of problems...but, if he can show he is contrite and willing to make a change for the better, then I think the Zards should give him some serious consideration. He would immediately be our best defensive player. If he can keep his head on straight, he could end up being a Marcus Camby clone. I have seen him play in person a couple of times, and I think he has a huge upside. Again, he has a ton of baggage, and of course that is going to hurt his draft stock considerably.....I hope he is still around by the time we pick in the 2nd....



But, Andy Katz has recently said that he may STILL be a 1st round pick



Sean Williams, 6-10, Jr., C, Boston College

Skinny: Next to Oden, the best shot-blocker and shot-altering post player in the draft.

Vibe: He's considered a first-round pick, even with his multiple suspensions.

Boston College: He has no affect on the Eagles. He was booted out in January.



http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2007/columns/story?columnist=katz_andy&id=2851358





*Also on the whole Brendan Haywood situation...I would take Kwame back in a heartbeat for ol' Todd...dude is worthless...however, in all seriousness we should get something decent in return in that Haywood is a mobile 7 footer, than can be somewhat effective when and I mean WHEN motivated....

[iceman330]

Why? Abe won't pay the luxary tax folks. Bredan makes peanuts, and the fans should be up in arms at Etan, who's played like garbage for three years now. Etan still can't hit a FT. He averaged fewer assists than Ruffin did last year! Etan is injury prone. Z ABUSED him this series. Etan sucks! He is a Jamison esque Defender. I'd trade him for Brian Cardinal just to get rid of him. Calvin Booth at the vet min is a much better player than Etan.

Way to get off the topic. My question is regarding Haywood. Are you saying you want to keep Haywood?

[Diesel70ChipOnWhite]

I think he was implying that Brendan is a much better FT shooter than Etan which is statistically flawed. Etan was actually a better FT shooter by .40% points which is really saying he is the the better of the crappy FT shooters. To be quite honest, the two of them with their stats actually wash each other out, and i would much rather have a 6-9/6-10 wannabe center with some heart than a 7 footer with no desire who is softer than jello.

Haywood and Arvis can jump on a plane and get the hell out of dodge.

[BayouBrave86]

Keep Stevenson, seeing as him and Arenas are pretty good pals, and the last pal Arenas had, we let walk. We're going to need to keep Stevenson around to keep Arenas happy so that he re-ups with us next year. Sounds stupid I know, but I truly believe this is a stepping stone in keeping Arenas. Also, I love Jamison and every thing he has done for this team, but if you can get a KG or Gasol type PF for him, you do it. I'm thinking trade Jamison, our 1st rounder, and ET or Pecherov if the asking price is a little higher, for one of these bigs. Its nice and all that Jamison is a great player for this team and team leader, but we aren't going to get past the 2nd round with him manning the PF position, and you can get use to that. We need a banger down low that can alter shots all game long on the defensive end and make opposing guards afraid to drive to the lane and demand double teams on the offensive side as well.

My ideal line-up next year would be...


PG-Daniels
SG-Arenas
SF-Butler
PF-KG/Gasol (pipedream I know, but with Jamison's great playoff series, maybe...)
C-Blatche..hell he is taller than alot of centers around the league

Keep Mason Jr. around, I love the spark he provides off the bench. Let Hayes and Taylor walk, along with Ruffin. Maybe trade Haywood for another C who isn't flourishing on a team.

[RonArtest15]

If we could get in a 3 way trade involving Minnesota and Los Angeles, do you all think that Kupcake would be stupid enough to deal Bynum to us, if we sent Todd, rights to JC Navarro/Pecker, and a 1st? Obviously, we would get another player (Aaron McKie or Smush...if they are still on the roster), but I wonder what it would take to pry away Bynum from the Lakers? As of right now, I think that Jamison is off the table as far as a trade is concerned. Dude played out of his mind in the postseason. Like I said in a previous post, I hope that Jamison can eventually be moved back to 6th man in about 2 years...hopefully, some of our project bigs like Blatche will be ready to step into that 4 spot and contribute. I think this team should keep the big 3 in tact for as long as possible. However, we do need to add some interior defense/legit low post threat by way of the 5 position. I think we have enough assets in our Euros, Blatche, future 1st round picks etc to make something like this happen. Who would have thought that we would have stole a guy like Caron from LA for Kwame? I have faith that EJ will put something together to make this team a little better from the center position. I think we can all live with AJ on our roster. He brings so much to the table. Forget his defensive liabilities....there are many more intangibles that we need from him to keep this team playing at a high level.

I have been one to say we may need a coaching change. My sentiments have altered a little bit over the past couple of weeks. What happened to the Wizards was unfortunate (injuries). I would like to see what EJ could do with a legit 5, and his big 3 healthy. Then it would be "put up or shut up" time for Jordan. Let's give him another year or two to show what he can do....

[Clutch03]

Wow! Way too much NBA Live and Madden for a lot of you. These scenarios are ridiculous. I don’t know of any playoff team that went through a major overhaul in the offseason and made it to the playoffs the next year.

Center is the only possible position I see having a person not currently on the Wizards roster.

[clathel]

Wow, just wow. You guys can't WAIT to get back to 20 win seasons, can you? Sure, lets trade an allstar for a touted freshman who hasn't played a quarter. I got sad news for you - Oden is NOT Ewing. He's going to be decent, but giving up Gil would be pretty damn insane. And yeah - Gil is expendable - just look at all the games we won after he went down, right?

Lets see....It was the night after Gil went down that CB went down and we could have won without Gil...not CB.

What I learned from the playoffs is that AD can give us a great PG option. IF we move Gil to SG and have CB and AJ then all we need is a C and alot of quality depth increasing it from 2 deep(DSS, Song) on the bench to 7 deep....with alot of quality not hacks like Poet, Brenda, Arvis, etc. Believe me I want Gil here and if we can keep him and work out a trade for the #1 or 2 pick I would finally have faith in EG but until that happens I doubt he can do anything to help this team and Gil seems like the only great value we have that someone would give up Oden or Durant for.

[Diesel70ChipOnWhite]

Lets see....It was the night after Gil went down that CB went down and we could have won without Gil...not CB.


:bsflag:

[clathel]

:bsflag:

Really? How many games was it?... 2? not 1?....sorry if I am slightly inaccurate but I thought it was the game after.... I think it was but I am too lazy to check...if you have schedule then check it for me....I dont have time for petty stuff and unexplained BS flags

[REDPepper]

We need to keep Haywood. If you checkout 82games.com , look at our point margin when Haywood is on the floor compared to when Thomas is on. Haywood is so much better than Thomas, he just doesn't put forth as much effort as Thomas does, and Eddie Jordan doesn't like that, and benches Haywood, so of course Haywood is mad. He knows he's much better than Etan. Jordan is the problem with this team

[Mr. Grundle]

We need to keep Haywood. If you checkout 82games.com , look at our point margin when Haywood is on the floor compared to when Thomas is on. Haywood is so much better than Thomas, he just doesn't put forth as much effort as Thomas does, and Eddie Jordan doesn't like that, and benches Haywood, so of course Haywood is mad. He knows he's much better than Etan. Jordan is the problem with this team

Stats don't matter. Haywood will not play again as long as EJ is coach. The only way he stays is if EJ is fired.

Even if EJ is fired, I still wouldn't want Haywood back. I don't care if he's mad about his playing time or doesn't like the coach or whatever, he got into a game and didn't even try. He gave up on his team. In a PLAYOFF game no less.

I don't care if EJ ran over his dog...you still don't give up on your teamates, your owner, and your fans. He's a disgrace to this team and to himself.

[Mr. Grundle]

Keep Stevenson, seeing as him and Arenas are pretty good pals, and the last pal Arenas had, we let walk. We're going to need to keep Stevenson around to keep Arenas happy so that he re-ups with us next year. Sounds stupid I know, but I truly believe this is a stepping stone in keeping Arenas. Also, I love Jamison and every thing he has done for this team, but if you can get a KG or Gasol type PF for him, you do it. I'm thinking trade Jamison, our 1st rounder, and ET or Pecherov if the asking price is a little higher, for one of these bigs. Its nice and all that Jamison is a great player for this team and team leader, but we aren't going to get past the 2nd round with him manning the PF position, and you can get use to that. We need a banger down low that can alter shots all game long on the defensive end and make opposing guards afraid to drive to the lane and demand double teams on the offensive side as well.

My ideal line-up next year would be...


PG-Daniels
SG-Arenas
SF-Butler
PF-KG/Gasol (pipedream I know, but with Jamison's great playoff series, maybe...)
C-Blatche..hell he is taller than alot of centers around the league

Keep Mason Jr. around, I love the spark he provides off the bench. Let Hayes and Taylor walk, along with Ruffin. Maybe trade Haywood for another C who isn't flourishing on a team.

I guess you must like that EJ is our coach then. Since the reason he is our coach for the next 3 years is because Gil liked him (so I'm told), and you apparently condone basing all our decisions on whether or not Gil likes somebody, you must be okay with having EJ for the long term, yes?

Come on, that's an absurd way to build a team.

I prefer shooting guards that can actually shoot. Let Stevenson walk unless he wants to come back for pennies and come off the bench.

[jbooma]

In the end though, a Jamison trade is the only way this team improves.

They will not trade the leader of the team.

[skinsfanno9]

Lets see....It was the night after Gil went down that CB went down and we could have won without Gil...not CB.

What I learned from the playoffs is that AD can give us a great PG option. IF we move Gil to SG and have CB and AJ then all we need is a C and alot of quality depth increasing it from 2 deep(DSS, Song) on the bench to 7 deep....with alot of quality not hacks like Poet, Brenda, Arvis, etc. Believe me I want Gil here and if we can keep him and work out a trade for the #1 or 2 pick I would finally have faith in EG but until that happens I doubt he can do anything to help this team and Gil seems like the only great value we have that someone would give up Oden or Durant for.

Ya know, I really love fantasy basketball. I was champion in both leagues I entered this year. But, um, this doesn't really relate to actual overall team performance. Shifting rosters around to get the best numbers of goodies doesn't always translate to a better performance on the floor. And trading a proven all-star - one of the best in the league - for a draft pick??? What, are you under the allusion that Oden is the next Tim Duncan??? What happens if Oden/Durant is merely ordinary? Then, not only have you destroyed the team for the short term in yet another rebuilding phase, you'd potentially ruined it for the long term. How 'bout we focus on putting together a 50 win team instead? We're really close. One more serviceable BIG and no massive injuries and we're there.

As for the lack of faith in the front office, I truly have no clue where you're coming from. Have you been paying attention to the turnaround since the current management has come? Wanna guess how often we got to the playoffs prior to then? Was this all random accidents or was there actual competence involved.

[mhd24]

They will not trade the leader of the team.


I'd argue that Butler is the true leader of the team. When your coach can only win 30% of the time with 2 all-stars instead of 3, it shows how much of a downgrad ehe is. I'm looking at it objectively.

Jamison won't get better. He'll likely be downgrading from now on as he approaches 30. He's simply not the defender to win games. With Etan in the middle (arguably the worst defender on the team) next to Jamison, this team is doomed from the start.

[mboyd784]

We need to keep Haywood. If you checkout 82games.com , look at our point margin when Haywood is on the floor compared to when Thomas is on. Haywood is so much better than Thomas, he just doesn't put forth as much effort as Thomas does, and Eddie Jordan doesn't like that, and benches Haywood, so of course Haywood is mad. He knows he's much better than Etan. Jordan is the problem with this team

82games.com is full of ****.

[REDPepper]

care to explain? 82games.com is straight stats, and the stats don't lie.

[mboyd784]

care to explain? 82games.com is straight stats, and the stats don't lie.

Yes they do. Haywood played the vast majority of his minutes with our "big 3". Thomas played the vast majority with Hayes, Mason, Blatche, etc. There is your point margin.

[mhd24]

Yes they do. Haywood played the vast majority of his minutes with our "big 3". Thomas played the vast majority with Hayes, Mason, Blatche, etc. There is your point margin.

This has been going on for FOUR YEARS! Haywood has consistently had positive aspects on the court, whereas Etan has had negative aspects.




Look at this season:
Haywood with every combo of players:
http://www.82games.com/0607/06WAS15B.HTM

Etan with every combo of players:
http://www.82games.com/0607/06WAS13B.HTM

Etan is crap compared to Haywood is every combination, and that is with this being Etan's best season of his crappy past three years, and Haywood's worst.





Regardless, why have the Wizards always lost with Etan at center? Etan started the year and the Wiz went on at 4-9. He's simply an attrocious player who never gets nary a 10th of the criticism that Haywood gets. 6 years, 36 million for crap. Etan hasn't improved ever since he signed that contract.

[mboyd784]

^^^Tell Todd I said bye-bye.

[skinsfanno9]

Regardless, why have the Wizards always lost with Etan at center? Etan started the year and the Wiz went on at 4-9. He's simply an attrocious player who never gets nary a 10th of the criticism that Haywood gets. 6 years, 36 million for crap. Etan hasn't improved ever since he signed that contract.

I don't think the problem is a straight comparison of their stats - and I'm guessing you're aware of this. The long and short of the problem is that Haywood is a jack***** - and a lazy one besides. I think everyone here would agree with the statement that "if" Haywood played to his potential, he would be a far better player than Thomas. But that "if" hasn't come true. Instead, Haywood clearly takes off plays and games, and spends the time off the court spreading dissension. Thomas doesn't have close to as much talent, but I think most would agree that he plays to his abilities (which aren't much).

So, um, why does Haywood get more criticism? Clearly we all know why.

[Mr. Grundle]

I think it's possible Gasol could be had.....if Memphis wins the lottery and takes Oden. Oden would be their C for the future, making the unhappy Gasol expendable. We would package Jamison with Haywood, as they could use both, and maybe a 1st rounder?

After watching what Jamison did in the playoffs, I won't like parting with him. At this point he is clearly vital to our teams success. But if we could get Gasol I'd do it.

[mhd24]

I think it's possible Gasol could be had.....if Memphis wins the lottery and takes Oden. Oden would be their C for the future, making the unhappy Gasol expendable. We would package Jamison with Haywood, as they could use both, and maybe a 1st rounder?

After watching what Jamison did in the playoffs, I won't like parting with him. At this point he is clearly vital to our teams success. But if we could get Gasol I'd do it.

I'd certainly do that deal since Gasol can play center. Unfortunetly, I don't know if Jamison+Haywood+Pecherov+16th for Gasol+Cardinal (The Grizz would love to move that deal. He is their Etan) would be enough for Memphis. They would want more (young talent), and the Wiz simply don't have enough to do the deal without including more teams IMO.

[REDPepper]

Yes they do. Haywood played the vast majority of his minutes with our "big 3". Thomas played the vast majority with Hayes, Mason, Blatche, etc. There is your point margin.
That's obviously not true... Thomas started most of the time this season i believe... not haywood. Plus these are the stats from the last 4 years or so.

[mboyd784]

That's obviously not true... Thomas started most of the time this season i believe... not haywood. Plus these are the stats from the last 4 years or so.

You believe wrong.

[Sticksboi05]

Lets see....It was the night after Gil went down that CB went down and we could have won without Gil...not CB.

What I learned from the playoffs is that AD can give us a great PG option. IF we move Gil to SG and have CB and AJ then all we need is a C and alot of quality depth increasing it from 2 deep(DSS, Song) on the bench to 7 deep....with alot of quality not hacks like Poet, Brenda, Arvis, etc. Believe me I want Gil here and if we can keep him and work out a trade for the #1 or 2 pick I would finally have faith in EG but until that happens I doubt he can do anything to help this team and Gil seems like the only great value we have that someone would give up Oden or Durant for.

Caron was injured first.

[Mr. Grundle]

I'd certainly do that deal since Gasol can play center. Unfortunetly, I don't know if Jamison+Haywood+Pecherov+16th for Gasol+Cardinal (The Grizz would love to move that deal. He is their Etan) would be enough for Memphis. They would want more (young talent), and the Wiz simply don't have enough to do the deal without including more teams IMO.

The Grizz will have alot of youth with Oden, Rudy Gay, Hakim Warrick, Terrence Kinsey, etc. Mike Miller is still young. They might like a veteran leader like Jamison and a nice C like Haywood to back up Oden. They'd probably like a PG as Damon Stoudamire and Chucky Atkins are getting a little long in the tooth. Maybe throw in JCN too?

[skinsfanno9]

I think it's possible Gasol could be had.....if Memphis wins the lottery and takes Oden. Oden would be their C for the future, making the unhappy Gasol expendable. We would package Jamison with Haywood, as they could use both, and maybe a 1st rounder?

After watching what Jamison did in the playoffs, I won't like parting with him. At this point he is clearly vital to our teams success. But if we could get Gasol I'd do it.

Why wouldn't they just play Gasol at PF again? Seriously, a front line of Oden and Gasol would rock. I'm guessing they know this.

[Mr. Grundle]

Why wouldn't they just play Gasol at PF again? Seriously, a front line of Oden and Gasol would rock. I'm guessing they know this.

I'm sure they're drooling at the possibility. But if Gasol is unhappy and demands a trade, it's possible they could ablige him and his huge salary if they know they have a replacement in Oden. Oden is gonna demand a bunch of money himself, and Memphis isn't exactly a huge market team.

[Diesel70ChipOnWhite]

Really? How many games was it?... 2? not 1?....sorry if I am slightly inaccurate but I thought it was the game after.... I think it was but I am too lazy to check...if you have schedule then check it for me....I dont have time for petty stuff and unexplained BS flags

Actually clathel, what i was saying is what ive been saying for the good majority of this nba season.

Wizards - Gilbert = sub .500 team with no playoffs

Wizards with Gil - Caron or - Jamison = .500 or above w/playoffs

You cannot compare Caron and Gil, they are completely different players who happen to compliment each other absolutely amazingly. Go ask Caron what he thinks about Gil and he'll tell you he is an elite player in the league, a superstar. Caron is an all star on the verge of being a regular fixture in the all star game. But for you to discount Gilbert is the same as you not giving credit where it is due.

The greatest players make the players around them better and if you would care to debate that Gil makes Caron better and Twan better, please feel free to respond...........

I would have responded to you earlier but i had a proposal to write. But im back now, so please enlighten me....

[arenasisgod]

I'd certainly do that deal since Gasol can play center. Unfortunetly, I don't know if Jamison+Haywood+Pecherov+16th for Gasol+Cardinal (The Grizz would love to move that deal. He is their Etan) would be enough for Memphis. They would want more (young talent), and the Wiz simply don't have enough to do the deal without including more teams IMO.
Gasol plays worse defense than Jamison, is hurt more often and can't score as well. Deal would suck.

[mboyd784]

Gasol plays worse defense than Jamison, is hurt more often and can't score as well. Deal would suck.

He can definitely score but, all in all, I agree.

[skinsfanno9]

I'm sure they're drooling at the possibility. But if Gasol is unhappy and demands a trade, it's possible they could ablige him and his huge salary if they know they have a replacement in Oden. Oden is gonna demand a bunch of money himself, and Memphis isn't exactly a huge market team.

Gasol is unhappy playing on a losing team. Adding Oden/Durant will change that equation. Chances are Gasol will get lots happier. But hey, if they're dumb enough to let him go for not much, lets go for it. My guess is they'll want way more than oft-injured Gasol is worth. Gasol is certainly not worth parting with either Caron of Arenas.

[ACW]

OK, a few thoughts:
-RESIGN DR. DRAY!!! (and try having him as center)
-regardless of what happens w/ Haywood/Etan, resign Booth as second or third-string center (currently making under 1 mil, and is fairly solid off the bench).
-keep Ruffin (quite tough and solid off the bench) unless you can get a good deal involving him
-ditto Jarvis?
-bye-bye Brendan
-keep DeShawn if he doesn't ask for too much
-unsure about Donnell

[mhd24]

OK, a few thoughts:
-RESIGN DR. DRAY!!! (and try having him as center)
-regardless of what happens w/ Haywood/Etan, resign Booth as second or third-string center (currently making under 1 mil, and is fairly solid off the bench).
-keep Ruffin (quite tough and solid off the bench) unless you can get a good deal involving him
-ditto Jarvis?
-bye-bye Brendan
-keep DeShawn if he doesn't ask for too much
-unsure about Donnell


No, get rid of Ruffin. Regardless of how many of the fellow posters feel about Haywood, EJ wouldn't hesitate to play Ruffin over OPEC and Blatche next year, just as he did with Blatche, Booth, and Haywood this year. Booth and Blatche have played better than Ruffin the entire year, but they didn't get nearly as many minutes. Ruffin is simply an atrocious offensive player. He's by far the worst offensive player in the nba. His career FG% is 37%! Blatche and OPEC deserve minutes overs the worst player in the nba. If the Wizards got a new coach, I wouldn't mind Ruffin being back because he'd be a solid hard-foul guy. But EJ plays him way too many minutes over deserving players.

[ACW]

No, get rid of Ruffin. Regardless of how many of the fellow posters feel about Haywood, EJ wouldn't hesitate to play Ruffin over OPEC and Blatche next year, just as he did with Blatche, Booth, and Haywood this year. Booth and Blatche have played better than Ruffin the entire year, but they didn't get nearly as many minutes. Ruffin is simply an atrocious offensive player. He's by far the worst offensive player in the nba. His career FG% is 37%! Blatche and OPEC deserve minutes overs the worst player in the nba. If the Wizards got a new coach, I wouldn't mind Ruffin being back because he'd be a solid hard-foul guy. But EJ plays him way too many minutes over deserving players. Maybe. I don't look at Ruffin's O though, I look at his D.

[mhd24]

Maybe. I don't look at Ruffin's O though, I look at his D.


Frankly, I think he's a poor defender as well. He's too short to play center and PF. He should strictly be used as a 2nd quarter player, playing 3 mpg to give hard fouls. Ruffin sets solid screens, and plays the pick & Roll pretty well. However, any screen he sets is useless because every team leaves him wide open, since he is such a bad offensive player. Playing 4 on 5 whenever Ruffin is on the court won't win games. He barely dunks the ball and we have guys (OPEC and Blatche) who are simply better then him.

[skinsfanno9]

Frankly, I think he's a poor defender as well. He's too short to play center and PF. He should strictly be used as a 2nd quarter player, playing 3 mpg to give hard fouls. Ruffin sets solid screens, and plays the pick & Roll pretty well. However, any screen he sets is useless because every team leaves him wide open, since he is such a bad offensive player. Playing 4 on 5 whenever Ruffin is on the court won't win games. He barely dunks the ball and we have guys (OPEC and Blatche) who are simply better then him.

EJ plays him because Ruffin is one of the few players who regularly sacrifices his body in banging inside. EJ likes folks that give their all, even if there all is sort of paltry in comparison to people with talent. Still, this is an aspect of EJ that I like - he rewards hard work and punishes jerks who give half-hearted efforts (Guess who I'm talking about - go on!). Blatche has more confidence at this point - far more than he did earlier. Whether he knows what he's doing or not, he's mixing it up now. So no worries there - Blatche will get big minutes next year.

[mhd24]

I guess Etan isn't a jerk since Grunfeld suspended him over Haywood regarding the fight.

[skinsfanno9]

I guess Etan isn't a jerk since Grunfeld suspended him over Haywood regarding the fight.

No, Etan isn't a jerk because he actually TRIES when he's out on the floor. Continually in fact. Etan gets yanked when he's ineffective - which happens frequently due to his lack of actual size or talent.

[ACW]

You need Etan's toughness and effort in Brendan's body.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

You need Etan's toughness and effort in Brendan's body.
Pretty much.

[Mooka]

I think it's possible Gasol could be had.....if Memphis wins the lottery and takes Oden. Oden would be their C for the future, making the unhappy Gasol expendable. We would package Jamison with Haywood, as they could use both, and maybe a 1st rounder?

After watching what Jamison did in the playoffs, I won't like parting with him. At this point he is clearly vital to our teams success. But if we could get Gasol I'd do it. Jerry won't get rid of Pau unless he can get a lottery pick or some real talent, or both. We're not getting him.

[Mr. Grundle]

Jerry won't get rid of Pau unless he can get a lottery pick or some real talent, or both. We're not getting him.

"But it's nonetheless intriguing that the Bulls are now being rewarded for not acquiring a low-post presence like Pau Gasol, who was offered in December for Luol Deng and Thabo Sefolosha."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/ian_thomsen/04/30/inside.nba/index.html

Gasol was offered by Jerry for Deng and Sefolosha. I think Jamison/Haywood is comparable to Deng/Sefolosha in value.

[hands11]

We need a center. A healthy Songaila will be shockingly good at the 4-spot, with Blatche (still maturing) providing big play off the bench.

Hopefully Daniels showed EJ that he can be our starting PG, which would move Gilbert to the SG position where he belongs.

This naturally places Caron at SF so tragically Jamison becomes a mystery after just showing us all how valuable he is. This is similar to our old conundrum with Chris webber and Juwan Howard. Two good players who play the same position. It will hurt to ask AJ to become our 6th man so we may have to sadly package him with Brenda to get a center unless the 7-foot euro comes in and makes a diff right away.


This is closest to what Im seeing but that shouldn't be news to anyone.
It would cost a lot to have AJ as the 6th man for 16M so maybe we can rego his contract. It would be great to have him as the 6th until he retires. Someone with his outside shot, experience and heart will be very important as we play the tougher teams deep in the playoffs.

AD should have been the PG all along. We would be farther along as a team and a balanced offense.

Most agruement regarding our bigs should be seen considering we didnt have a PG all year, or last year, or the year before. Bigs need PGs.

AD, Gil, CB, Songaila/Blatche, Haywood/Etan is a solid balanced line up that will produce everything you need.

Let DS walk and I believe even though Hayes may show some talent one day, Im done with him. I dont like what is between his hears and I dont like EJs love affair with him.

The keys for this team above everything else is getting Gil out of the PG because he isnt mature enough to handle the possition and he doesnt want to be the leader. CB is the most important leader on the team. AJ is a great leader also, but he can do his thing from the bench because he sucks at D.

Secondly but as imoprtant, we need a new coach but that isnt going to happen for 3 more years. :doh:

EG will need to design around EJs limitations. That means he has to stock to team in a way that forces EJ to play the right line ups. If you look at the salaries, AD is slotted as the PG.

So now EG needs to get ride of DS, Hayes and Ruffin so EJ will be forced to play other combinations.

[hands11]

We need a center. A healthy Songaila will be shockingly good at the 4-spot, with Blatche (still maturing) providing big play off the bench.

Hopefully Daniels showed EJ that he can be our starting PG, which would move Gilbert to the SG position where he belongs.

This naturally places Caron at SF so tragically Jamison becomes a mystery after just showing us all how valuable he is. This is similar to our old conundrum with Chris webber and Juwan Howard. Two good players who play the same position. It will hurt to ask AJ to become our 6th man so we may have to sadly package him with Brenda to get a center unless the 7-foot euro comes in and makes a diff right away.


This is closest to what Im seeing but that shouldn't be news to anyone.
It would cost a lot to have AJ as the 6th man for 16M so maybe we can rego his contract. It would be great to have him as the 6th until he retires. Someone with his outside shot, experience and heart will be very important as we play the tougher teams deep in the playoffs.

AD should have been the PG all along. We would be farther along as a team and a balanced offense.

Blatche needs to get his outside shot fixed this offseason. Right now Songaila is over him but Blatche can grow his game a lot in a year. I want to see Blatche get a regular 20+ next year.

[Chachie]

AD should have been the PG all along. We would be farther along as a team and a balanced offense.

:applause:






Blatche needs to get his outside shot fixed this offseason. Right now Songaila is over him but Blatche can grow his game a lot in a year. I want to see Blatche get a regular 20+ next year.

I have learned (at least where this team is concerned) it takes a little longer for big men to come along. :)

I'd expect 20+ from Andray in 2009.

[MoochieDC_86]

Resign Dray and thats it....
Let Stevenson, Hayes go
trade away Haywood for cash considerations and a 2nd
Etan the same
Sign Rashard Lewis!!!

[hands11]

:applause:








I have learned (at least where this team is concerned) it takes a little longer for big men to come along. :)

I'd expect 20+ from Andray in 2009.

This is not a good place for bigman.

I have a question to anyone that knows. Who was the true big that EJ coached as an assistant while at NJ? I see MUTOMBO. He is still playing isnt he? Maybe we can bring him here.

I dont get the EJ love. His only real success was as an assistant. He didnt call the line ups, time out, etc. He is Norv Tunner.

He installed an offense with Jason Kidd as the PG. You could run any offense and Kidd would make it work. They also had K Martin and Jefferies in their hayday.

[BayouBrave86]

I'm telling you guys, we need to re-sign Stevenson. You aren't going to find a better SG option out there with the type of money Stevenson could be had for. Hell, he wasn't even able to play in his natural role in the playoffs due to all the injuries. If you could have him coming off the bench to spell Arenas, it would be great.

[hands11]

I'm telling you guys, we need to re-sign Stevenson. You aren't going to find a better SG option out there with the type of money Stevenson could be had for. Hell, he wasn't even able to play in his natural role in the playoffs due to all the injuries. If you could have him coming off the bench to spell Arenas, it would be great.


Good agruement except that isnt the role he played all year.

He was the starting SG all year.

Now I don't think he should have been. He should have been the 2nd SG behind Gil as the first SG with AD at PG.

And if that is the case, is that what DS wants to be and what do you sign him for as such? And if EG signs him as such, will EJ play him that way.

EJ and EG don't seem to be on the same page. I like EGs pages better.

[CMonster]

Stats don't matter. Haywood will not play again as long as EJ is coach. The only way he stays is if EJ is fired.

Even if EJ is fired, I still wouldn't want Haywood back. I don't care if he's mad about his playing time or doesn't like the coach or whatever, he got into a game and didn't even try. He gave up on his team. In a PLAYOFF game no less.

I don't care if EJ ran over his dog...you still don't give up on your teamates, your owner, and your fans. He's a disgrace to this team and to himself. Why do you continually say ridiculous things?

Stats don't matter? To paraphrase a line from Stephen Colbert....stats are just a reflection of what's happening in reality.

Stats don't matter if they are taken from a small sample set, but that statistic holds true for YEARS running now.

I guess wins and losses don't matter either. :doh:

[CMonster]

Yes they do. Haywood played the vast majority of his minutes with our "big 3". Thomas played the vast majority with Hayes, Mason, Blatche, etc. There is your point margin. Huh? No.

82games.com does a GREAT job of statistical analysis and it clearly shows that the Big 3 +Haywood> the Big 3+Thomas.

Isn't this stuff sort of obvious? A 7 foot center with long wingspan would be a better defensive presence than a 6'9'' center with small wingspan?

[CMonster]

You need Etan's toughness and effort in Brendan's body. Screw that, since we're in fantasy land why don't we just get Michael Jordan's toughness in Kevin Durant's body?

If we want to deal in the real world where things like the salary cap and human beings are involved, BTH is cheaper and more effective than ET...and those are facts.

I don't like his attitude at all, but no team in the NBA is full of hard working, choirboys.

[Chachie]

I'm telling you guys, we need to re-sign Stevenson. You aren't going to find a better SG option out there with the type of money Stevenson could be had for. Hell, he wasn't even able to play in his natural role in the playoffs due to all the injuries. If you could have him coming off the bench to spell Arenas, it would be great.


I agree with Hands on this, Bayou.

When it was time for him to step up he failed the test. He looked pretty good in the starting SG position while Arenas and Butler were on court because they drew all the attention. When Gil/Caron went down and opponents could put a man on Deshawn full-time, he had a lot of trouble. His 3-point stats dropped off and he couldn't finish at the rim.

This team should be playing Gilbert at the 2-spot and if they learned from AD's play lately, they will move Gil to SG next season. This would render Stevenson almost useless.

[Mr. Grundle]

Why do you continually say ridiculous things?

Stats don't matter? To paraphrase a line from Stephen Colbert....stats are just a reflection of what's happening in reality.

Stats don't matter if they are taken from a small sample set, but that statistic holds true for YEARS running now.

I guess wins and losses don't matter either. :doh:

Why do you continually take my quotes out of context?

Stats obviously matter, but not in the case of Brendan Haywood. The fact that he is better statistically does not mean anything in EJ's eyes. All EJ sees is a guy who gives half ass effort, whines, pouts, and just acts like an immature baby.

For that reason, Haywood will not play another minute under EJ, no matter what his stats say. Therefore, stats don't matter.

[mboyd784]

Why do you continually take my quotes out of context?

Stats obviously matter, but not in the case of Brendan Haywood. The fact that he is better statistically does not mean anything in EJ's eyes. All EJ sees is a guy who gives half ass effort, whines, pouts, and just acts like an immature baby.

For that reason, Haywood will not play another minute under EJ, no matter what his stats say. Therefore, stats don't matter.

Well stated. BTW, statistically Terrel Owens is vastly superior to Santana Moss. Any takers?

[skinsfanno9]

I dont get the EJ love. His only real success was as an assistant. He didnt call the line ups, time out, etc. He is Norv Tunner.

Hmm, refresh my memory, but I don't remember Norv Turner taking us to the playoffs 3 years in a row. Do you?

Do you actually blame EJ for losing his two best players this year, and Jamison earlier and Songalia's back problems? Perhaps we should see him with all his players in force before deciding he's a more successful Norv Turner.

[skinsfanno9]

I'm telling you guys, we need to re-sign Stevenson. You aren't going to find a better SG option out there with the type of money Stevenson could be had for. Hell, he wasn't even able to play in his natural role in the playoffs due to all the injuries. If you could have him coming off the bench to spell Arenas, it would be great.

Stevenson is a great off-the-bench defender who we should bring in to slow someone's superstar SG. Stevenson is not starter calibur - we need a SG who can drain the open outside shot with regularity.

[mhd24]

The perfect SG for this team would be a prime Doug Christie. The best guy (closest) is probably Ricky Davis, who'd be an excellent fit. Minny probably won't trade him though (at least not until the deadline, and certainly not before any decision on KG's future) since he's got an expiring deal.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

The perfect SG for this team would be a prime Doug Christie. The best guy (closest) is probably Ricky Davis, who'd be an excellent fit. Minny probably won't trade him though (at least not until the deadline, and certainly not before any decision on KG's future) since he's got an expiring deal.
If I was a GM you couldn't pay ME to take Ricky Davis.

[RonArtest15]

The perfect SG for this team would be a prime Doug Christie. The best guy (closest) is probably Ricky Davis, who'd be an excellent fit. Minny probably won't trade him though (at least not until the deadline, and certainly not before any decision on KG's future) since he's got an expiring deal.

It's no coincidence that Davis is one of the MOST talented players in the NBA, but has played on 5 teams in about 9 years or so....

[mhd24]

Davis also has an expiring deal (no risk), has EXCELLENT Shooting percentages, (84% from FT, 40% from 3, and 47% from 2). He's close to a great defender, and did it all as the 2nd option in the west. He's also a good ball-handler.

What problems has Davis ever been involved in? He's never been arrested, from what I can tell. SO he didn't like LeTravel, heck this entire board hates LeTravel too. He'd be an excellent Wizard in that regard.

[twenty-eight]

How is Davis on the defensive end?

[Gamebreaker]

I don't understand why people keep arguing over Haywood or Etan, they both need to go. Haywood because of his lack of heart, effort, and attitude, and Etan because of his ridiculous contract.

We're getting Perechov from Europe, he'll be able to help at PF. Draft a big man who can bang in the paint and rebound, move Blatche to C to give him more minutes, and keep Calvin Booth as a backup C. We'll get more hustle, better defense, and better efficiency on the boards, while minimizing the soap opera drama and disappointment.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I'll forever remember Davis for when he was in Cleveland and he threw the ball off his own rim to try to pick up a 10th rebound, and thus a triple double, against the Jazz.

Oh I found it on youtube. Don't ask me WTF is up with the music cause I have no idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MezCclCSjNw

[skinsfanno9]

I'll forever remember Davis for when he was in Cleveland and he threw the ball off his own rim to try to pick up a 10th rebound, and thus a triple double, against the Jazz.

Oh I found it on youtube. Don't ask me WTF is up with the music cause I have no idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MezCclCSjNw

Wow, just wow. Yeah, I'll pass on Davis.

[Chachie]

The perfect SG for this team would be a prime Doug Christie. The best guy (closest) is probably Ricky Davis, who'd be an excellent fit. Minny probably won't trade him though (at least not until the deadline, and certainly not before any decision on KG's future) since he's got an expiring deal.


The perfect SG for this team is named Gilbert Arenas. :)

[mboyd784]

The perfect SG for this team is named Gilbert Arenas. :)

I'm all in.

[twenty-eight]

I'm all in.

You wanna create a list of players that you would trade for Gilbert?

I always ask myself if I would trade Gil for Dwight Howard:)

[mboyd784]

You wanna create a list of players that you would trade for Gilbert?

I always ask myself if I would trade Gil for Dwight Howard:)

I would do that trade in a heartbeat.

[CMonster]

Why do you continually take my quotes out of context?

Stats obviously matter, but not in the case of Brendan Haywood. The fact that he is better statistically does not mean anything in EJ's eyes. All EJ sees is a guy who gives half ass effort, whines, pouts, and just acts like an immature baby.

For that reason, Haywood will not play another minute under EJ, no matter what his stats say. Therefore, stats don't matter. There's nothing I took out of context.

You are now changing your argument to say that stats don't matter because of BTH's atttitude. And the follow up T.O./Santana Moss comparison was equally sillly. WRs aren't nearly as central to winning in football as 7 foot shot blockers are in basketball and, again, BTH has years of statistics to back this up.

And if T.O. had a huge impact on winning and was locked into a contract at about 50%-60% of his market value, then yes, I'd take the productive, cheap malcontent every time.

[mboyd784]

And if T.O. had a huge impact on winning and was locked into a contract at about 50%-60% of his market value, then yes, I'd take the productive, cheap malcontent every time.

He has a huge impact.

He is locked into a contract below market value...4-5 mil a year I think.

So you would take TO over Santana Moss...that explains why you favor haywood.

[hands11]

Hmm, refresh my memory, but I don't remember Norv Turner taking us to the playoffs 3 years in a row. Do you?

Do you actually blame EJ for losing his two best players this year, and Jamison earlier and Songalia's back problems? Perhaps we should see him with all his players in force before deciding he's a more successful Norv Turner.


Stop being so simple minded. The situations they are in are totally different. I am comparing the men and there backgrounds. Norv also didn't have the GM we do here and his team had vastly less talent. But both were offensive "geniuses" as assistant but cant head coach worth a lick but still are viewed well by owners, etc. Are you saying Norv didnt get the same hype and credit in the beginning like EJ is getting. But time told to the truth and he was gone.

As for do I blame him for losing those two. That would impossible to make a direct connection. I do blame him for over playing them and wearing them done though and I do know that worn down players are more prone to injury, but there is no way to make a direct connection. Those kind of injuries can happen at any time.

I also know that Gil was hurt with a shoulder problem for a while and said he needed to sit but EJ wouldnt let him because he needs him to play 40 minutes to win and he was more concerned with winning now then the big picture.

[hands11]

I don't understand why people keep arguing over Haywood or Etan, they both need to go. Haywood because of his lack of heart, effort, and attitude, and Etan because of his ridiculous contract.

We're getting Perechov from Europe, he'll be able to help at PF. Draft a big man who can bang in the paint and rebound, move Blatche to C to give him more minutes, and keep Calvin Booth as a backup C. We'll get more hustle, better defense, and better efficiency on the boards, while minimizing the soap opera drama and disappointment.


Blatche at Center would be more like Golden State who we seem to be trying to model a similar team after.

[hands11]

The perfect SG for this team is named Gilbert Arenas. :)


Glad to see the board momentum behind this is growing.

So can we then agree AD is our best PG and that we need another to back him up.

AD, Gil, CB

Can we agree on that also?

Then we just have to place 2 more players.

We have Songaila, Blatche who arent going anywhere can who can booth play some D. So what to do with AJ?

Playing Blatche at C means you could play AJ at PF but then you have Haywood and Etan to deal with.

Something will happen this offseason that will point the direction EG wants to go.

[skinsfanno9]

Stop being so simple minded. The situations they are in are totally different. I am comparing the men and there backgrounds. Norv also didn't have the GM we do here and his team had vastly less talent. But both were offensive "geniuses" as assistant but cant head coach worth a lick but still are viewed well by owners, etc. Are you saying Norv didnt get the same hype and credit in the beginning like EJ is getting. But time told to the truth and he was gone.

As for do I blame him for losing those two. That would impossible to make a direct connection. I do blame him for over playing them and wearing them done though and I do know that worn down players are more prone to injury, but there is no way to make a direct connection. Those kind of injuries can happen at any time.

I also know that Gil was hurt with a shoulder problem for a while and said he needed to sit but EJ wouldnt let him because he needs him to play 40 minutes to win and he was more concerned with winning now then the big picture.

Did you take a look at how the players got injured? Wallace landed on Arenas' knee when he wasn't looking - how can you possibly blame this on EJ? And again, regarding the EJ/Turner comparison, if all the parts were healthy going into the playoffs and they folded to Cleveland, you might have a better leg to stand on. This isn't what happened. Calling me simple minded when you look at every problem as EJ's fault and every success as happening in spite of EJ is truly simple minded.

Bottom line, EJ isn't going anywhere next year. As great a person as Haywood is, as stand-up a guy as he is, it appears that EG has surprisingly supported EJ over Haywood. And apparently, EJ has snowed the rest of the players as well. Personally, I'm happy to let EJ continue to develop as a coach along with the nucleas of this team. While I don't see an imminent championship at this point, I certainly didn't see one with Miami last year either.

If we hit the 50+ win range, anything is possible. Changing out either the coach or key players right now is really risky - this is a risk I don't think we should consider making (unless potentially someone is giving up a tier-one center/Defensive PF for Jamison). Incremental change this year sounds great to me - get us one decent (not great) BIG and another decent outside shooter and I'll be happy - thrilled in fact.

[skinsfanno9]

Blatche at Center would be more like Golden State who we seem to be trying to model a similar team after.

I'd be up for seeing this. It's hard not to look at Neli's Small Ball and not see the comparisons here. The defensive philosophy is very different from San Antonio, which reduces shooting percentage - small ball goes for steals and works for fast brakes.

I'd also be up for experimenting with AD in the starting line up - although this now really worries me in thinking about who comes off the bench to help score/run the offense.

[ACW]

I'd be up for seeing this. It's hard not to look at Neli's Small Ball and not see the comparisons here. The defensive philosophy is very different from San Antonio, which reduces shooting percentage - small ball goes for steals and works for fast brakes.

I'd also be up for experimenting with AD in the starting line up - although this now really worries me in thinking about who comes off the bench to help score/run the offense. Agreed. Blatche can be our Biedrins.

[Mr. Grundle]

There's nothing I took out of context.

You are now changing your argument to say that stats don't matter because of BTH's atttitude. And the follow up T.O./Santana Moss comparison was equally sillly. WRs aren't nearly as central to winning in football as 7 foot shot blockers are in basketball and, again, BTH has years of statistics to back this up.

And if T.O. had a huge impact on winning and was locked into a contract at about 50%-60% of his market value, then yes, I'd take the productive, cheap malcontent every time.

:laugh:

If that's what you need to believe to think that you are right, go for it bro. I think everyone else knew what I meant.

So you obviously value production over attitude/character. That sends a great message to the kids.

[mad4comp]

Did you take a look at how the players got injured? Wallace landed on Arenas' knee when he wasn't looking - how can you possibly blame this on EJ? And again, regarding the EJ/Turner comparison, if all the parts were healthy going into the playoffs and they folded to Cleveland, you might have a better leg to stand on. This isn't what happened. Calling me simple minded when you look at every problem as EJ's fault and every success as happening in spite of EJ is truly simple minded.


Problem is, even with all parts healthy this team could barely beat opponents, usually relying on a miracle shot by Gilbert or whatever. And plus, even with 1-2 all-stars, there is no reason a team should ever go 3-14, especially with the depth of players we have.



Bottom line, EJ isn't going anywhere next year. As great a person as Haywood is, as stand-up a guy as he is, it appears that EG has surprisingly supported EJ over Haywood. And apparently, EJ has snowed the rest of the players as well. Personally, I'm happy to let EJ continue to develop as a coach along with the nucleas of this team. While I don't see an imminent championship at this point, I certainly didn't see one with Miami last year either.


Develop as a coach? Sorry but after 4 years of the same offense, with very similar players, you'd think this idiot of a coach would know how to alter lineups, use backup players, and teach defense right? But every year that goes by, every aspect of this team seems to be regressing. I mean, this defense went from below average to just plain non-existent in less than 3 years. Now if there were positives such as seeing him getting better with lineups and such, then yes I'd agree with your sentiment that we should let him develop as a coach. But as the longest tenured coach in the Eastern Conference, he's had ample time to work out the "kinks" in his coaching style, and the fact that nothings changed (in game coaching that is), tells me it's never going to. Therefore, goodbye EJ, don't let the door hit your *** on the way out.


If we hit the 50+ win range, anything is possible. Changing out either the coach or key players right now is really risky - this is a risk I don't think we should consider making (unless potentially someone is giving up a tier-one center/Defensive PF for Jamison). Incremental change this year sounds great to me - get us one decent (not great) BIG and another decent outside shooter and I'll be happy - thrilled in fact.

Do you seriously think this team will ever win 50+ games with EJ as the coach? He relies on 3 all-stars to play 40+ minutes each game, and can barely win a game. Almost everyone on this board knew either Gil, Butler, or AJ were gonna go down at some point. Heck I called Hughes getting hurt in the 05 season and Jamison getting hurt in the subsequent season. You can't have all 3 of your best players playing that many minutes each game and expect to last a full season. And on top of that, he was too stubborn to play Blatche or Daniels and give them some time to gel with the team, nope, EJ was just focused on winning a game. Give Riley, Karl, Brown this team and they will take them to the conference finals every year, heck even give Gar Heard this team, and he'd have them sniffing the jock of a 50 win season. Mark my words, with EJ as the coach, this team will NEVER win 50+ games. And on top of that, they play absolutely no defense what so ever, so how are they going to win games, when their shots are not on? By throwing up 30 more jump shots?

BTW anyone know if Adelman is available for the taking? I wouldn't mind having him as a coach.

[Mr. Grundle]

Problem is, even with all parts healthy this team could barely beat opponents, usually relying on a miracle shot by Gilbert or whatever. And plus, even with 1-2 all-stars, there is no reason a team should ever go 3-14, especially with the depth of players we have.

What depth of players? Besides Jamison I didn't see a single guy that could be relied on for a consistent bucket. Songaila was probably best. Jarvis Hayes, Deshawn Stevenson, Antonio Daniels, Etan Thomas, Brendan Haywood, Roger Mason, Donnell Taylor, Calvin Booth, and Andray Blatche. Can a single one of those guys be considered a GOOD offensive weapon? All I see is a bunch of guards who can't shoot and bigs who can't post up.

[tundey]

lol at "depth of players". I bet EJ somehow gets the blame when this "depth of players" didn't step up when Caron and Gil went down. So we have great depth but the team can't win without 2 players.

[mad4comp]

What depth of players? Besides Jamison I didn't see a single guy that could be relied on for a consistent bucket. Songaila was probably best. Jarvis Hayes, Deshawn Stevenson, Antonio Daniels, Etan Thomas, Brendan Haywood, Roger Mason, Donnell Taylor, Calvin Booth, and Andray Blatche. Can a single one of those guys be considered a GOOD offensive weapon? All I see is a bunch of guards who can't shoot and bigs who can't post up.

Daniels, Blatche, and Mason All could have done much better had they been given the time to gel during the season. Instead, EJ decides to play them only when injuries start hampering the team. I remember even when we were like 37-28, me and hands were calling for EJ to play Blatche and Daniels so that they could contribute more come playoff time. And then EJ decides to give Hayes about 47.123334 minutes a game in order to get his shot back, where does that leave us? Nowhere. Those minutes should have gone to RMJ Jr, who is a better shooter, and better defender.

Sorry, but EJ really ****** up what could have been a great season, in a weak eastern conference.

[tundey]

Who is gonna take Etan's huge contract? Haywood is a head case and his contract is attractive to other teams. Add those up and Haywood is almost certainly gone this offseason.

I don't understand why people keep arguing over Haywood or Etan, they both need to go. Haywood because of his lack of heart, effort, and attitude, and Etan because of his ridiculous contract.

We're getting Perechov from Europe, he'll be able to help at PF. Draft a big man who can bang in the paint and rebound, move Blatche to C to give him more minutes, and keep Calvin Booth as a backup C. We'll get more hustle, better defense, and better efficiency on the boards, while minimizing the soap opera drama and disappointment.

[tundey]

You just can't win with fans. I guess that's why we are fans and he's the coach. Caron and Gil going down is what screwed up this season. Not EJ.

Daniels, Blatche, and Mason All could have done much better had they been given the time to gel during the season. Instead, EJ decides to play them only when injuries start hampering the team. I remember even when we were like 37-28, me and hands were calling for EJ to play Blatche and Daniels so that they could contribute more come playoff time. And then EJ decides to give Hayes about 47.123334 minutes a game in order to get his shot back, where does that leave us? Nowhere. Those minutes should have gone to RMJ Jr, who is a better shooter, and better defender.

Sorry, but EJ really ****** up what could have been a great season, in a weak eastern conference.

[mad4comp]

lol at "depth of players". I bet EJ somehow gets the blame when this "depth of players" didn't step up when Caron and Gil went down. So we have great depth but the team can't win without 2 players.

Did I ever say "Great depth" or you just trying to make up words to make you look like a smart***?

Seriously, how can you just shove a player in when another player gets hurt and expect him to do well? Especially when he was given little or no PT during the regular season? Why do you think Stevenson suffered so badly toward the end of the season? You have to give players ample time to gel and get their rhythm down, yet EJ thinks he can just put in players when he likes and expect immediate results. You would think, EJ being a players coach and all, he would realize this? Guess not.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold up now. I distinctly remember people, INLCUDING YOU, bitching and moaning and whining about why EJ was giving this player and that player serious burn ALL SEASON LONG. That was one of the main points of bitching all regular season. I know I'm not the only one who remembers this.

[Mr. Grundle]

Daniels, Blatche, and Mason All could have done much better had they been given the time to gel during the season. Instead, EJ decides to play them only when injuries start hampering the team. I remember even when we were like 37-28, me and hands were calling for EJ to play Blatche and Daniels so that they could contribute more come playoff time. And then EJ decides to give Hayes about 47.123334 minutes a game in order to get his shot back, where does that leave us? Nowhere. Those minutes should have gone to RMJ Jr, who is a better shooter, and better defender.

Sorry, but EJ really ****** up what could have been a great season, in a weak eastern conference.

If Roger Mason Jr. is the guy we needed to rely on once our good players got injured, what does that say about the rest of the players on this team? Seriously....Roger Mason Jr. Think about it. He probably couldn't make half the rosters in the NBA.

[Mr. Grundle]

Did I ever say "Great depth" or you just trying to make up words to make you look like a smart***?

Seriously, how can you just shove a player in when another player gets hurt and expect him to do well? Especially when he was given little or no PT during the regular season? Why do you think Stevenson suffered so badly toward the end of the season? You have to give players ample time to gel and get their rhythm down, yet EJ thinks he can just put in players when he likes and expect immediate results. You would think, EJ being a players coach and all, he would realize this? Guess not.

Little or no PT? Stevenson started all 82 games and averaged 30 minutes a game.

[skinfan2k]

the wizards dont need a pg really.. they need a guard with capable dribble penetration and then a sharp shooter along gil.. They have gil and they need a better shooter than stevenson alogn side him.. Maybe a Quentin Richardson, James Posey, Kapono, Finley.

[CMonster]

If Roger Mason Jr. is the guy we needed to rely on once our good players got injured, what does that say about the rest of the players on this team? Seriously....Roger Mason Jr. Think about it. He probably couldn't make half the rosters in the NBA. Why is your perspective continually terrible?

I guess unguaranteed, training camp invitee free agents can't make a difference on a playoff team.....

Uhhhhhhhhhh, Matt Barnes.

[mhd24]

Rick Adelman is out there and waiting to be selected as a coach. There is no doubt that he'd be an instant upgrade as head coach. Lets see, a guy who can take teams to the nba finals and conference finals, versus EJ.

[mboyd784]

Why is your perspective continually terrible?

I guess unguaranteed, training camp invitee free agents can't make a difference on a playoff team.....

Uhhhhhhhhhh, Matt Barnes.

Excellent point.

[hands11]

[QUOTE=skinsfanno9]Did you take a look at how the players got injured? Wallace landed on Arenas' knee when he wasn't looking - how can you possibly blame this on EJ?
QUOTE]

If your not going to read what I wrote or you can't comprehend it, please don't respond to my posts.

[hands11]

I'd be up for seeing this. It's hard not to look at Neli's Small Ball and not see the comparisons here. The defensive philosophy is very different from San Antonio, which reduces shooting percentage - small ball goes for steals and works for fast brakes.

I'd also be up for experimenting with AD in the starting line up - although this now really worries me in thinking about who comes off the bench to help score/run the offense.

Nelly D is mad. They had someone near Dirk at all times. At least one.
It isnt just about steals. That was a sound D.

As you the second part, like I have been saying. We need another PG. There is a thread on it. Hell, I have be saying the same dame thing for 3 years now. Move Gil to the 2 and play a PG. We had Blake and didn't do it. Then we got AD and still didn't do it.

The funny thing is now both Blake and Knight who we had a available again. Get one of them or get a quality FA or an assume draft choice.

[hands11]

lol at "depth of players". I bet EJ somehow gets the blame when this "depth of players" didn't step up when Caron and Gil went down. So we have great depth but the team can't win without 2 players.


Our bench out played the opponents consistently down the stretch. I heard them mention it like every game. Where were you?

[hands11]

Daniels, Blatche, and Mason All could have done much better had they been given the time to gel during the season. Instead, EJ decides to play them only when injuries start hampering the team. I remember even when we were like 37-28, me and hands were calling for EJ to play Blatche and Daniels so that they could contribute more come playoff time. And then EJ decides to give Hayes about 47.123334 minutes a game in order to get his shot back, where does that leave us? Nowhere. Those minutes should have gone to RMJ Jr, who is a better shooter, and better defender.

Sorry, but EJ really ****** up what could have been a great season, in a weak eastern conference.

You would think after seeing it all in black and white, called way ahead of time, that they would actually start to believe us and listen to what we say a little more. I dont see the same thing happening the other way yet they always think they are right. Baffling.

[mboyd784]

Our bench out played the opponents consistently down the stretch. I heard them mention it like every game. Where were you?

It wasn't the bench that failed the Wizards, it was the starting SG and the benched Center.

[Mr. Grundle]

Why is your perspective continually terrible?

I guess unguaranteed, training camp invitee free agents can't make a difference on a playoff team.....

Uhhhhhhhhhh, Matt Barnes.

Where did I say Roger Mason couldn't make a difference? He came in and hit a couple 3-pointers, so yeah, he made a difference.

Making a difference and shouldering the load when you lose your two all-stars are two completely different things. I can expect RMJ to make a difference. But if I'm looking for someone to shoulder the load, and RMJ is the best option, then I expect to get swept.

[mad4comp]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold up now. I distinctly remember people, INLCUDING YOU, bitching and moaning and whining about why EJ was giving this player and that player serious burn ALL SEASON LONG. That was one of the main points of bitching all regular season. I know I'm not the only one who remembers this.

Yea, I was bitching and moaning about Jarvis Hayes, who wasnt? And frankly, I still am.

[mad4comp]

Where did I say Roger Mason couldn't make a difference? He came in and hit a couple 3-pointers, so yeah, he made a difference.

Making a difference and shouldering the load when you lose your two all-stars are two completely different things. I can expect RMJ to make a difference. But if I'm looking for someone to shoulder the load, and RMJ is the best option, then I expect to get swept.

Yet you think Arvis can fill the void left by two injured all-stars?

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Yea, I was bitching and moaning about Jarvis Hayes, who wasnt? And frankly, I still am.
Na dude. Maybe it wasn't you but I remember people bitching about Donell and Roger Mason JUNIOR getting burn as well. I also remember having conversations with people and telling them that EJ was doing it so they would be ready for later in the season and for the playoffs.

If I really cared about my genuisness being recognized I would search for them and quote myself but eh, I have a life.

[Mr. Grundle]

Yet you think Arvis can fill the void left by two injured all-stars?

No way...I've been adament all season that I don't want to see Jarvis on the court and will be glad when he is gone. The fact that he was the next best scoring option after Jamison is kind of my whole point that the talent is seriously lacking after the big 3.

[hands11]

It wasn't the bench that failed the Wizards, it was the starting SG and the benched Center.


Just an idea but... if that was the case we could have tried

AD, Hayes, AJ, Songaila/Blatche, Etan/Haywood/Booth

Sorry but if you dont get it done one game, thats ok.
But if you dont get it done in 4 straight games and the coach still gives you tones of minutes, thats on him.

[Nighthawk]

As much as Caron and Gil have said that they'd like to see this team stay in tack, it's obvious that's not possible.

Haywood can not exist on this team with EJ as the coach and since it doesn't look like EJ is going anywhere then he has to go.

I really believe that Ernie needs to make a play and try to trade for Marcus Camby from Denver. There's rumors that Denver is going to try and move him.

We should package, Brendan and Antonio Daniels in a trade for Camby.

Steve Blake is going to test the market and is going to get paid big time after the season he had in Denver. Denver can't afford to resign them so they are going to need a backup at the PG position.

Maybe the rarified air of Denver will help Brendan out.

[mboyd784]

Just an idea but... may if that was the case we could have tried

AD, Hayes, AJ, Songaila/Blatche, Etan/Haywood/Booth

Sorry but if you dont get it done one game, thats ok.
But if you dont get it done in 4 straight games and the coach still gives you tones of minutes, thats on him.

I could not agree more.

[hands11]

Where did I say Roger Mason couldn't make a difference? He came in and hit a couple 3-pointers, so yeah, he made a difference.

Making a difference and shouldering the load when you lose your two all-stars are two completely different things. I can expect RMJ to make a difference. But if I'm looking for someone to shoulder the load, and RMJ is the best option, then I expect to get swept.


So you think it would have helped if Blatche was more prepared to play? Let me answer for you. Yes.

This is what a good coach would have done during the season instead of being focused on just winning one game and being the coach of the all star game.

We werent going all the way this year anyway so your goal is to grow the team. You dont do that by not playing your best PG so the others could grow, sitting your best young talented PF, not trying a combination of Haywood and Etan more then 3 minutes in 3 years, giving minutes to Ruffin who wont be here when you become a great team, and logging 40 mins a game to 3 players who are already very good knowing you will be wearing them done come the playoffs.

EJ actually said this so Im not making it up. He was telling the team they wouldnt be able to rely on those 3 all season but what he failed to do was do something to prepare them for something different and then it was to late.

[hands11]

Na dude. Maybe it wasn't you but I remember people bitching about Donell and Roger Mason JUNIOR getting burn as well. I also remember having conversations with people and telling them that EJ was doing it so they would be ready for later in the season and for the playoffs.

If I really cared about my genuisness being recognized I would search for them and quote myself but eh, I have a life.

Taylor should not have gotten burn over AD. Mason was good for 5 minutes a game, nothing more. That would have been a good investment, specially if they were mins he could count on getting.

Your geniusness would not be proven by finding any of these quotes.

[skinsfanno9]

As much as Caron and Gil have said that they'd like to see this team stay in tack, it's obvious that's not possible.

Haywood can not exist on this team with EJ as the coach and since it doesn't look like EJ is going anywhere then he has to go.

I really believe that Ernie needs to make a play and try to trade for Marcus Camby from Denver. There's rumors that Denver is going to try and move him.

We should package, Brendan and Antonio Daniels in a trade for Camby.

Boy that'd be a sweet deal if we could swing it. Camby would be terrific. But it almost sounds too good to be true. I doubt I'd trade those two for Camby, then again he is getting up in years.