ESPN Insider: Clayton NFC Big Question

[bubba9497]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=2858916


click link for full article


Did the Cowboys make a mistake not drafting a top-flight receiver from a deep pool of talent?

Terry Glenn and Terrell Owens are in their 30s, and Owens is coming off major finger surgery. Patrick Crayton is a decent third receiver, but it's hard to project him as a starter. While the Cowboys did the right thing in the draft swap with Cleveland that netted them a first-round choice in 2008, they that bypassed the chance to get one of the draft's best receivers. The Browns aren't expected to be good in 2007, so the Cowboys could be at the top of the draft looking at the best receiver.

The Cowboys also have to look at replacing left tackle Flozell Adams, who is in the final year of his contract. If Tony Romo takes a step back, they might have to look at a quarterback, too. Maybe the delay in getting a receiver will work. The Cowboys got a nice pass-rusher in Anthony Spencer in the first round. The offense needed some help at the skill positions. A receiver injury could be a major problem for the Cowboys.


Did the Giants make a mistake in not getting a left tackle?

The Giants needed help at linebacker, cornerback and left tackle. They had only one first-round pick, so three problems couldn't be solved at once. The value on the board pointed to cornerback Aaron Ross from Texas. Left tackle Joe Staley of Central Michigan was another option. By letting a first-round left tackle pass, the Giants have to go ahead with their plan to move guard David Diehl to left tackle and hope that works. The concern is the psyche of QB Eli Manning. Manning is under a lot of heat because of his November and December struggles over the past two seasons. His accuracy dips as the thermometer falls. One reason for last year's drop-off was the poor play at left tackle. If the Diehl experiment doesn't work, Manning could be in trouble early in the season.


How will Donovan McNabb accept having Kevin Kolb as a potential threat behind him?

Heading into the draft, the Eagles really didn't have many needs. They fixed the linebacking problems by trading for Takeo Spikes. They've drafted well on the offensive and defensive lines for years. Kevin Curtis was signed to help the receiving corps. Other than taking safety Brandon Meriweather, who wasn't available when the Eagles selected, Andy Reid's best option was to trade down. Kolb wasn't in the plans for the Eagles. He just fell to them, and Reid made the pick. If you're McNabb, though, you have to question the rationale behind the pick. The Eagles didn't draft Kolb to be the inactive quarterback from week to week. Although Kolb probably will be the No. 3 in 2007, the Eagles will try to groom him into being a potential starter. McNabb just got over the bad emotions of the Terrell Owens signing. He had just reasserted himself as the leader of the offense. Now, he might have to be looking over his shoulder.


oh for those who will start crying (you know who you are :laugh: )... why did you leave out the Redskins.. BS

that Big Question is already being discussed in a thread in the Stadium forum, you are more than welcome to post your comments about Washington in there :)

[Riggo#44]

oh for those who will start crying (you know who you are :laugh: )... why did you leave out the Redskins.. BS

that Big Question is already being discussed in a thread in the Stadium forum, you are more than welcome to post your comments about Washington in there :)

Why would they do that? They'd actually have to have information to back up their claims!

[Westbrook36]

Post this thread one more time and I'll respond. ;)

[Riggo#44]

Post this thread one more time and I'll respond. ;)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/colum...john&id=2858916 (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=2858916)


click link for full article


Did the Cowboys make a mistake not drafting a top-flight receiver from a deep pool of talent?

Terry Glenn and Terrell Owens are in their 30s, and Owens is coming off major finger surgery. Patrick Crayton is a decent third receiver, but it's hard to project him as a starter. While the Cowboys did the right thing in the draft swap with Cleveland that netted them a first-round choice in 2008, they that bypassed the chance to get one of the draft's best receivers. The Browns aren't expected to be good in 2007, so the Cowboys could be at the top of the draft looking at the best receiver.

The Cowboys also have to look at replacing left tackle Flozell Adams, who is in the final year of his contract. If Tony Romo takes a step back, they might have to look at a quarterback, too. Maybe the delay in getting a receiver will work. The Cowboys got a nice pass-rusher in Anthony Spencer in the first round. The offense needed some help at the skill positions. A receiver injury could be a major problem for the Cowboys.


Did the Giants make a mistake in not getting a left tackle?

The Giants needed help at linebacker, cornerback and left tackle. They had only one first-round pick, so three problems couldn't be solved at once. The value on the board pointed to cornerback Aaron Ross from Texas. Left tackle Joe Staley of Central Michigan was another option. By letting a first-round left tackle pass, the Giants have to go ahead with their plan to move guard David Diehl to left tackle and hope that works. The concern is the psyche of QB Eli Manning. Manning is under a lot of heat because of his November and December struggles over the past two seasons. His accuracy dips as the thermometer falls. One reason for last year's drop-off was the poor play at left tackle. If the Diehl experiment doesn't work, Manning could be in trouble early in the season.


How will Donovan McNabb accept having Kevin Kolb as a potential threat behind him?

Heading into the draft, the Eagles really didn't have many needs. They fixed the linebacking problems by trading for Takeo Spikes. They've drafted well on the offensive and defensive lines for years. Kevin Curtis was signed to help the receiving corps. Other than taking safety Brandon Meriweather, who wasn't available when the Eagles selected, Andy Reid's best option was to trade down. Kolb wasn't in the plans for the Eagles. He just fell to them, and Reid made the pick. If you're McNabb, though, you have to question the rationale behind the pick. The Eagles didn't draft Kolb to be the inactive quarterback from week to week. Although Kolb probably will be the No. 3 in 2007, the Eagles will try to groom him into being a potential starter. McNabb just got over the bad emotions of the Terrell Owens signing. He had just reasserted himself as the leader of the offense. Now, he might have to be looking over his shoulder.


oh for those who will start crying (you know who you are :laugh: )... why did you leave out the Redskins.. BS

that Big Question is already being discussed in a thread in the Stadium forum, you are more than welcome to post your comments about Washington in there :)

[OWUeagleMD]

The Cowboys did not make a mistake when they neglected to draft a wide receiver.

The Giants did make a huge mistake in not targeting a Left Tackle.

If Donovan McNabb is disturbed by a rookie QB then I don't want him as our starter to begin with.

And...


It would be foolish to reduce the Redskins' problems to a single question anyway. They have way to much going on to fit into this format.

[Riggo#44]

It would be foolish to reduce the Redskins' problems to a single question anyway. They have way to much going on to fit into this format.

Personally I think they have 3 areas of question right now: LG, DE opposite Carter and DL depth. I like our LBs and DBs. Our offense had the #4 rushing team in the NFL last year.

[OWUeagleMD]

Personally I think they have 3 areas of question right now: LG, DE opposite Carter and DL depth. I like our LBs and DBs. Our offense had the #4 rushing team in the NFL last year.

I was really just having fun with the notion that we "can't" discuss the Redskins in this forum.

[Peregrine]

1. If the Cowboys made a mistake not going after a reciever, we made a mistake not going after DE. Wynn and Daniels are older than TO and Glenn, and inferior at their respective positions. So the answer would be, that depends :-)

2. I dont think so. The giants are screwed no matter what they do. They had far to many holes to fill to just draft a player and solve everything. Their defense and offense will continue to be bad.

3. If McNabb is worried at all about Kolb, hes far to insecure to be productive anyway. Guy gets drafted in the second round, and in his rookie season, the face of the eagles is worried about him? I dont buy it.

[AmishGangsta]

More than likely, the Eagles will be competitive again this year, I agree with that.

I think where the experts are making a big mistake, is in assuming that the division will be an exact replica from the standings of 2006; the team that I think they are WAY OFF on is Dallas - the media is still star struck on this Tony Romo story, and is missing the whole "Parcells left town, and now you have to start all over again w/ Wade." This is a different team with Wade at the helm. He needs to prove himself.

We've seen it time and time again. You need coaching stability to compete in the NFL. Sure, there are a few rare occasions where a new head coach comes in and the team has instant success, but that is very rare; it hardly ever happens in the NFC East.

As far as the skins, we've see these experts try to pin point the glaring weaknesses on a team, year in and year out, and in most cases, they are completely wrong. (the Eagles supposabley having no receivers, or the Saints of last year - they were doomed).

If anyone here thinks the NFC is going to play out exactly like last year -as the media would have you to believe - boy are you in for a shocker - I don't think that's ever happened in the entirety of the NFL's existence.

[bubba9497]

I was really just having fun with the notion that we "can't" discuss the Redskins in this forum.


why wouldn't you want to discuss te Redskins in the forum intended for that, with many more Skin fans to bounce your opinion off of? :whoknows:


Why would anyone want to discuss the Skins in a thread about another team?


sort of like going to a Chevy dealership to ask about a Ford car :silly:

[bubba9497]

If anyone here thinks the NFC is going to play out exactly like last year -as the media would have you to believe - boy are you in for a shocker - I don't that that's ever happened in the entirety of the NFL's existence.

case in point

the past two seasons the NFC East champ was last in the division the previous year

[SkinsHokieFan]

The health of TO and Terry Glenn is going to be huge for the Girls this year

The Giants have tuned out Coughlin

Why is McNabb so damn sensitive? Where is that "I am the man" swagger from him?

[OWUeagleMD]

why wouldn't you want to discuss te Redskins in the forum intended for that, with many more Skin fans to bounce your opinion off of? :whoknows:


Why would anyone want to discuss the Skins in a thread about another team?


sort of like going to a Chevy dealership to ask about a Ford car :silly:

If I thought the conversation would consist of anything other than "you're on a Redskins board! We don't want your opinion! TROLL!!" I would definitely spend some time over there.

Let's not pretend The Stadium is some bastion of football intelligence. I don't talk out of my ass, and thus, wouldn't have a bit of a problem dropping into any discussion. We both know very well that opposing fans are tolerated in ATN and dismissed in The Stadium. You can continue to go out of your way to make a point about this not being the place to talk about the Redskins, but we both know the real reason every non-Skins fan stays here, and it has nothing to do with a fear of debate.

[BigDFan5]

If I thought the conversation would consist of anything other than "you're on a Redskins board! We don't want your opinion! TROLL!!" I would definitely spend some time over there.

Let's not pretend The Stadium is some bastion of football intelligence. I don't talk out of my ass, and thus, wouldn't have a bit of a problem dropping into any discussion. We both know very well that opposing fans are tolerated in ATN and dismissed in The Stadium. You can continue to go out of your way to make a point about this not being the place to talk about the Redskins, but we both know the real reason every non-Skins fan stays here, and it has nothing to do with a fear of debate.


Exactly.

[Riggo#44]

I was really just having fun with the notion that we "can't" discuss the Redskins in this forum.

Meeh - some will believe that. I don't particularly care - this board of for all the NFL - the Skins incl.

[Riggo#44]

If I thought the conversation would consist of anything other than "you're on a Redskins board! We don't want your opinion! TROLL!!" I would definitely spend some time over there.

Let's not pretend The Stadium is some bastion of football intelligence. I don't talk out of my ass, and thus, wouldn't have a bit of a problem dropping into any discussion. We both know very well that opposing fans are tolerated in ATN and dismissed in The Stadium. You can continue to go out of your way to make a point about this not being the place to talk about the Redskins, but we both know the real reason every non-Skins fan stays here, and it has nothing to do with a fear of debate.

Tom the Giants fan posts there regularly. One way or another, you're going to get bombarded, that's the nature of the beast. However, if you sift through the bashings of the overly-emotional, you'll find good debate.

Just don't come off as an arrogant-know-it-all-blow-hard.

Just little bit of advice. I'd welcome it - I love to argue.

[OWUeagleMD]

Tom the Giants fan posts there regularly. One way or another, you're going to get bombarded, that's the nature of the beast. However, if you sift through the bashings of the overly-emotional, you'll find good debate.

Just don't come off as an arrogant-know-it-all-blow-hard.

Just little bit of advice. I'd welcome it - I love to argue.

At least in my mind, I'm not an arrogant-blow-hard here, so certainly wouldn't be one there.

My opinion doesn't feel out of place in ATN. In The Stadium, there's an inevitable "who asked you anyway" type of vibe.

Regardless, I've never neglected to post there through fear of argument or a belief that I'll be excused as a fraud, as bubba recently began suggesting.

[bubba9497]

If I thought the conversation would consist of anything other than "you're on a Redskins board! We don't want your opinion! TROLL!!" I would definitely spend some time over there.

Let's not pretend The Stadium is some bastion of football intelligence. I don't talk out of my ass, and thus, wouldn't have a bit of a problem dropping into any discussion. We both know very well that opposing fans are tolerated in ATN and dismissed in The Stadium. You can continue to go out of your way to make a point about this not being the place to talk about the Redskins, but we both know the real reason every non-Skins fan stays here, and it has nothing to do with a fear of debate.

weak

up until a year or so ago, their wasn't a separation between the ATN and Redskin threads... the only difference now is the separation allows Redskin threads to stay on top longer instead of being pushed down ... that's it

so you get people who call you homer, troll?? you mean like you'll do to me and tr1? :laugh: We are out numbered in ATN many times in a thread... do you see us backing down or hiding out opinion?

trust me there have been more skin fans banned for going off on a non skins fan than the other way around


Westy posts in the Stadium, and no one is as big a homer/Skins basher when he wants to be... he never gets banned... same for HeHateMe, TomGiantsFan, Who Del, Eaglelegendz

one of the biggest Poke homers ever WeOwnU was never banned for his comments in the Stadium, but for comments he made in ATN that got him the hook

if you have a solid argument, you will get honest debate from the more intelligent posters... heck you will even get Skin fans agreeing with you sometimes

qeez all you have to do is click a link... not like it is climbing Mt. Everest or something :laugh:

[OWUeagleMD]

weak

up until a year or so ago, their wasn't a separation between the ATN and Redskin threads... the only difference now is the separation allows Redskin threads to stay on top longer instead of being pushed down ... that's it

so you get people who call you homer, troll?? you mean like you'll do to me and tr1? :laugh: We are out numbered in ATN many times in a thread... do you see us backing down or hiding out opinion?

trust me there have been more skin fans banned for going off on a non skins fan than the other way around


Westy posts in the Stadium, and no one is as big a homer/Skins basher when he wants to be... he never gets banned... same for HeHateMe, TomGiantsFan, Who Del, Eaglelegendz

one of the biggest Poke homers ever WeOwnU was never banned for his comments in the Stadium, but for comments he made in ATN that got him the hook

if you have a solid argument, you will get honest debate from the more intelligent posters... heck you will even get Skin fans agreeing with you sometimes

qeez all you have to do is click a link... not like it is climbing Mt. Everest or something :laugh:

I go over there all the time. When ATN and The Stadium were one board I discussed the Redskins much more than I do now. The delineation between the two told me that this is where my ideas belong, and that has been reiterated the few times I've decided to interject over at the mother board.

I'd be more than happy to spend more time posting over there. You seem certain that I'll be smacked around by the football geniuses (and afterall, how could people who invent terms like "Pastabelly" and "Peter Queen" be considered anything less than genius) in The Stadium. I'm certain that won't be the case.

[jrockster21]

I find it funny that bubba's attempts to limit Skins debate in this forum only lead to more and more debate. :laugh:

[bubba9497]

I find it funny that bubba's attempts to limit Skins debate in this forum only lead to more and more debate. :laugh:

one can only try to educate

the subjects must be willing

[Riggo#44]

and afterall, how could people who invent terms like "Pastabelly" and "Peter Queen" be considered anything less than genius

I prefer Len Fatassarelli

[Westbrook36]

My last post in the stadium was thought out and reasonable. Here is the first reply to what I posted:



There is nothing inconsistent in the what the Redskins are doing and you surely must understand that, you're just being a troll. Either that or you truly are a moron on football matters. Which is it?

[Jeremiah_Johnson]

My last post in the stadium was thought out and reasonable. Here is the first reply to what I posted:

The best way to post in the stadium is to do it quick. Stick and move, stick and move. Don't go back looking at replies to your posts because you will take a beating. Its best to say what you have to say, and move on. Maybe someone reads it and agrees with you, maybe some skins homer falls off his couch thinking your nuts. But either way, you don't go back to find out.

Getting back to "why shouldn't skins info" be included in full blown articles in the ATN, I think its a joke that Bubba won't include them, and he'll hide behind the shroud of "its in the stadium boys, go get you some" argument. Everyone see's through his game.

Fact is, its mostly the same group of guys here in the ATN. Westy, Number5, HHM, OUEagle, bubba, tr1, IrishOrange, TomGiantsfan, and we ALL talk about each others teams. Good, bad or indifferent. With bubba's new "rule" of not including skins segments, that excludes the rest of us from discussing the skins topics amongs each other. If westy wants to talk about the skins recent moves, or news with a Giants fan (tom), do you really expect him to find tom in the stadium? Of course not. It would be done here in the ATN.

Now I'm not talking about articles that are only about the cowboys, Giants or Eagles. By all means, post them here, and post skins articles over at the Stadium. But if the article addresses all 4 teams, then the whole article should be posted here. Outside of that, you're just copying and pasting parts of articles you like.

Fact is, if the skins have done ANYTHING even REMOTELY successful in the last year, you'd be dying to post it anywhere you can, but with the recent success of your team, I can understand why you wouldn't want to give us any ammo.

[jrockster21]

My last post in the stadium was thought out and reasonable. Here is the first reply to what I posted:

What...you don't provide the post, just the response? :doh:

[jrockster21]

My last post in the stadium was thought out and reasonable. Here is the first reply to what I posted:


:laugh: Your last few posts in the stadium were trolling at their finest.

You, of all people, the self-proclaimed draft wizard, should know about salary slotting. Landry will make more than Taylor did in 2004 one spot higher because guess what: contracts at that spot have gotten bigger. :doh:

[Westbrook36]

:laugh: Your last few posts in the stadium were trolling at their finest.

You, of all people, the self-proclaimed draft wizard, should know about salary slotting. Landry will make more than Taylor did in 2004 one spot higher because guess what: contracts at that spot have gotten bigger. :doh:

This is true; I find it just ridiculous that reasonable people can't realize that during Free Agency, years after the fact, lesser talented players might make more than established stars. It is the same exact thing. I can see if it was during the same year.

[bedlamVR]

All Bubba is trying to do is make it so that debates can be aired in the correct forum. If you have something to say about the ESPN insider article commnets on the Skins go and do it in the stadium where your comments will be heard by Skins fans and if all you have is hommer hate then you will be calle dout for it if you have something to add it will be discussed I don't see the problem . There seems to be little point in having the same debate occuring in two different areas.

Just so noone is under the illusion Westbrook was trying to add anything to the debate in his last foray into the stadium :

In the thread "Will Landry get more than Taylor"
http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198100

which in terms of Rookie contracts is probably yes because market forces dictate as such Westbrook posted :

Originally Posted by Westbrook36
He isn't allowed to. Going by long standing Redskins doctrine, no lesser player can make more money than a better established player.

If he demands more than Taylor, they should release Landry because they will be justified in sticking with their mantra. Just ask Smmooooooot and Pierce.

And

Originally Posted by Westbrook36
I agree! That is why you have to apply the same principle to Smoot and Pierce since they were set to sign their FA contracts 2 years after Washington and Springs signed theirs. I thought the party line trumped out was pretty ridiculous and don't bypass any opportunity to mock it. Does anyone even agree with it now, years later? Pretty ridiculous to try to pass that off on a whole fan base as a legitimate excuse.

Not really on topic or relevent since we were talking about rookies and the Pierce/Smoot thing has been debated to death but SonyJ's response to which Westbrook was refering to was interestingly clipped to take the comments out of context

SonyJ
I absolutely agree with it. And I still do. Why would you pay your 2nd best LB and your 2nd best CB more than your best at those positions, given that you had just signed the better players the season prior? I could see paying them nearly the same, given market inflation, but not more.

There is absolutely no correlation between the valuation used in draft pick contract slotting (and the inevitable increase from year-to-year) and that used in determining FA contract value.

There is nothing inconsistent in the what the Redskins are doing and you surely must understand that, you're just being a troll. Either that or you truly are a moron on football matters. Which is it?

The thing is Westy was getting some people agreeing with him but he doesn't want to stick around and debate things he does these stupid hit and run troll postings much like he did last year predicting gloom and doom about the CBA.

Some people Tom for example can post in the stadium without an eyebrow being raised but thats not because he goes with the flow and says what people want to hear but because he doesn't deliberatly go out there to cause trouble.

Now I like debating things with fans from other teams in the ATL section but this is still the extremeskins board it is still burgandy and gold for a reason. When I hear TR1 and Bubba called out as trolls for posting things about other teams with a negative spin on them I laugh.

I have been abused called a "moron" in fabulous one word reponses to my posts and been told to "stick to soccer" on here doesn't stop me posting or go whining and complaining about things. Some non skins fans think the ATL is a private club for them and them alone where it is really a place for everyone - Why cannot everyone just get along?