Phillips Excited To Finally Get His Team On Field

[tr1]

And so, the saga of the most over-rated pre-season squad begins...Anyone care to wager how much time TO spends on the field during training camp? Oooohhh...the pinky...the pinky.... :laugh:

Nick Eatman - Email
DallasCowboys.com Staff Writer
May 10, 2007 7:32 PM
http://www.dallascowboys.com/news.cfm?id=7890F5FF-AFC4-81A7-FF62A09E82D7B06B

Phillips didn't point out a few players he's excited to see this weekend, but rather all of them.

IRVING, Texas - For the most part, new Cowboys head coach Wade Phillips has had to go by hearsay when it comes to evaluating his players.

Sure, he's watched plenty of film. And yes, he's met all of them, seen them in the weight room and even watched some of his quarterbacks and receivers on the practice field in a few scheduled passing sessions.

But Phillips knows this weekend will be the first true evaluation he will get from the team - his team - as the Cowboys conduct a three-day mini-camp here Saturday through Monday at Valley Ranch.

When asked which specific players he is excited to see on the practice field, the usually-humble Phillips turned understandably greedy with his answer.

"I think it's all of them," Phillips said Thursday from his office at Valley Ranch. "You see them on tape, but that doesn't necessarily tell the story. And seeing them in shorts won't completely tell the story either. But it starts the process. I'm going to tell them, they're not going to make the team this weekend. But we'll get some ideas as far as what they do."

And that's something Phillips and his new coaching staff have been waiting for the last few months.

"I think it's kind of exciting for us, the staff and even though some guys have been here before, it's still a new staff," Phillips said. "It's a new team for most of us. The anticipation of just getting together - although they've been working out, but not as a football team, but in the off-season program. The rookies, we haven't seen, but it's just an orientation for them. They'll get to know what NFL football is about."

While Phillips said the mini-camp isn't about answering all of the questions, he can at least start the process of learning his new players. And not just what they can do on the field, but how they react to different situations.

"Part of it is for me and the coaches, getting to know these guys and what their strengths are and what their weaknesses are," Phillips said. "That's football-wise, personality-wise as a person. Those things are important. Bear Bryant, he never talked to his coaches about football. He talked to them about what kind of character does this guy have and what's he going to do on fourth and 1. So there's a lot involved in knowing players, not just knowing what he can do on the field."

Unlike previous seasons here when the Cowboys held a mini-camp for rookies and first-year players the weekend following the draft, Phillips said he preferred to push back the first camp to be able to see his entire team all at once.

"I thought it was an easier transition for them and us," Phillips said. "I think it makes sense to me to do it that way. Other teams do it another way. You get started on something, let's just keep going with it, rather than taking a week off, especially for rookies who haven't seen it before and don't know anything about it."

Of course, not every player on the roster will be ready to participate.

Phillips said he is not sure whether Terrell Owens will be cleared for action this weekend. The veteran wide receiver has undergone two surgeries on his right ring finger this off-season, and has been participated sparingly in the twice-a-week passing sessions here at Valley Ranch. Although because of the injury, Owens has been catching more tennis balls than footballs.

"We don't know on Terrell yet," Phillips said of T.O.'s status for this upcoming mini-camp. "We're still talking to his doctors but he's not far from participating. But he is still rehabbing as far as that is concerned. What we do with him depends on their doctor and our people."

Other injured players not expected to participate this weekend include linebacker Greg Ellis (Achilles'), guard Marco Rivera (back), rookie wide receiver Isaiah Stanback (foot) and guard Robert Turner (wrist).

Along with his excitement to conduct his first mini-camp as new head coach, Phillips discussed a variety of other team-related topics:

Greg Ellis - While he acknowledged Ellis would not practice this weekend and instead continue rehabbing from his season-ending Achilles' injury he suffered last November, Phillips said he has talked with the outside linebacker regarding his apparent frustration with his role with the team.

Ellis has expressed his disappointment in the Cowboys drafting pass-rusher Anthony Spencer, who will likely play outside linebacker in the 3-4 scheme. Ellis, who wasn't excited last year to move from defensive end to linebacker, has watched the Cowboys use three first-round picks on outside linebackers (DeMarcus Ware, Bobby Carpenter and Spencer) in the last three seasons.

But Phillips said he spoke to Ellis and wanted to assure the veteran he still has a strong role in this defense.

"I think he is going to have a great year for us and I am looking forward to that," Phillips said. "That was the extent of our conversation. I assured him of that. We are trying to get the best players we can get. But I told Greg (drafting Spencer) didn't have anything to do with him coming off injury. :laugh: We expect him to be back. We expect him to have a great year."

Marco Rivera - Unlike Ellis, it doesn't appear the Cowboys have Rivera high in their plans for 2007, if at all. The veteran guard, who will not participate in the mini-camp, suffered his second herniated disk in the last two years which required another surgery this off-season.

Phillips was rather mum when asked to speculate on Rivera's future with the team.

"Well, his situation is different than Ellis in that he's had a major surgery and he's had one before," Phillips said of Rivera. "He's a lot further away from being well. That's the situation with him, more so than Ellis. He's out there running every day. (Rivera has) not progressed to that. But I don't know. We're kind of hoping for the best right now and we'll go from there."

Cowboys owner Jerry Jones said on draft weekend he was expecting to meet with Rivera the following week about his future. The injury could jeopardize the Rivera's career, but he and the Cowboys haven't appeared in any rush to make a decision on his future with the team.

The Cowboys don't appear to be counting on Rivera on the depth chart, having signed veteran Leonard Davis in the off-season. Davis is expected to play right guard, where Rivera has started the last two years.

Pat McQuistan - The Cowboys might have added some depth to the inside of the offensive line by moving McQuistan inside to guard. Phillips said the second-year veteran, who played offensive tackle last year, has been moved to left guard.

"Yeah, we moved him to guard," Phillips said. "But I don't want to get into all of that because we may move guys around. We're going to look again and see where we think they can best help us and see how they do at whatever position. Where they start out certainly isn't where you can end at, if you show what you can do."

McQuistan played both guard and tackle at Weber State, but was drafted in the seventh round last year as a tackle. Former head coach Bill Parcells gave the rookie much praise last season, saying McQuistan had a bright future. While he was inactive for most of his rookie season, some thought he might compete for a starting spot at tackle next year. But that was before the Cowboys re-signed Marc Colombo at right tackle, opposite three-time Pro Bowler Flozell Adams.

Tony Romo - Phillips said he has not spoken to his starting quarterback since the NFL Draft, when the Cowboys decided to pass on Notre Dame's Brady Quinn and stick with Romo as their future quarterback. However, the coach said he is aware of Romo's appreciative comments toward the organization for showing enough faith to not change directions at the position.

"I didn't feel like it was something I needed to talk to him about," Phillips said. "We didn't hug or anything or have that kind of moment. But he said he appreciated it and I just took him at his word."

Phillips admits he didn't know much about Romo as a player when he took over the job, but has been told by scouts, former and current coaches alike to have confidence in his starting quarterback. And so far, he hasn't seen anything on the contrary.

"I had heard from different coaches even previous to last year that they thought they had a guy who was going to be a good player . . . it was Tony Romo," Phillips said. "Well first, seeing him in the Pro Bowl . . . that flurry he put on at the end was pretty impressive. And then watching him on tape, I am pretty impressed. He is here studying, working on his craft, that kind of thing. He is the right kind of guy. He has good leadership qualities and all those things."
****

[Tom [Giants fan]]

I'm just not sold on Philips as a head coach.

[DWinzit]

"We don't know on Terrell yet,"
:laugh: Sorry but this made me crack up.

Where have I read that before and why do I get the feeling I'll see it again?

[DWinzit]

']I'm just not sold on Philips as a head coach.I don't think many Cowboy fans are sold on him either. He is a temporary fix and they are backing him because he is their coach.

[TonyRomoProBowl]

I don't think many Cowboy fans are sold on him either. He is a temporary fix and they are backing him because he is their coach.


Hey nothing wrong with backing your head coach...as a fan, thats what we have to do...and for the record, i am not "sold" on it completly either....Its a wait and see deal for me.

[DWinzit]

Hey nothing wrong with backing your head coach...as a fan, thats what we have to do...and for the record, i am not "sold" on it completly either....Its a wait and see deal for me.No argument, your doing what most of us do in similar situations. If he was younger and signed a long term deal you'd have already be sold on him.:)

[TonyRomoProBowl]

No argument, your doing what most of us do in similar situations. If he was younger and signed a long term deal you'd have already be sold on him.:)

I am not real sure if i would be sold on him or not, in that regard. I am not sure these days when it comes to coaches in the NFL. I went most of my knowing just one man as the Cowboys coach, Tom Landry. After he was fired, i was bitter and had to "accept" Jimmy. He brought success to the team immediatly and erased all those bad memories, but since then Dallas has not had a true face for our franchise, when it comes to the coach....Dont get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for Parcells, but i still could not shake the image of him as a Giant. And the others in between...pfft, looking back, just makes it worse...So :fingersx: here to Phillips on trying to become that guy

[DWinzit]

And the others in between...pfft, looking back, just makes it worse...So :fingersx: here to Phillips on trying to become that guyWell I'll I'm going to say to that is good luck:rolleyes:. He can't be worse than some of the others from your recent past........Can he?

IMO Jerry brought him in to give Dallas 1-2 years, so they can get into the Cowher sweepstakes!

[Riggo#44]

Hey nothing wrong with backing your head coach...as a fan, thats what we have to do...and for the record, i am not "sold" on it completly either....Its a wait and see deal for me.

It's a wait and see deal for everyone outside of the usual muttering of the dismissive "we'll be fine"

[TonyRomoProBowl]

Well I'll I'm going to say to that is good luck:rolleyes:. He can't be worse than some of the others from your recent past........Can he?

IMO Jerry brought him in to give Dallas 1-2 years, so they can get into the Cowher sweepstakes!


Thats being speculated, and there may be some credence to it. I just hope he catches fire with this club and becomes the guy....but a couple of 8-8 or 7-9 seasons and its off to the next big name coach:mad:

[CPortJGibbs89]

The one thing that scares me about Phillips is what he can do with the Defense. There are some good players on that side of the ball and if Phillips can bring out the best of them and bring some good pressure which he is known for then look out.....

[pjfootballer]

']I'm just not sold on Philips as a head coach.

Me either. Buffalo? Denver? Bueller? Who do you want as your next coach Tom?

[bubba9497]

']I'm just not sold on Philips as a head coach.


not to worry

Jerrah is the real coach :silly:

[IrishOrange15]

Well I'll I'm going to say to that is good luck:rolleyes:. He can't be worse than some of the others from your recent past........Can he?

IMO Jerry brought him in to give Dallas 1-2 years, so they can get into the Cowher sweepstakes!

I think Cowher will be gone. Wade is a lot better head coach and D-Coordinator than given credit for. His record and his defensive rankings speak for themselves. My guess is that Jones wanted somebody to finally get them to be a really good defense that can sack the QB (over the years, Jones has repeatedly mentioned their inability to sack the QB). Wade is one of the best at getting his defenses at sacking the QB. Over the last 20 years, be it as a head coach or a D-Coordinator, his defenses have averaged 44.3 sacks per season (which is outstanding). And on average, he's increased his defense's total sack count by 27% within his first year with the team.

I think Jones wants Garrett to be the head coach given Sean Payton's success, but realized he was not ready. So instead he's going in with the plan of giving Wade 2-3 years and let him develop the defense and let Garrett develop and then let Garrett take over.

I'm not really sure who people think Jones should have hired. There were no real big name head coaches out there available, except Cowher who had no intention of coaching this season. The rest of the candidates like Rivera (who now is a freaking LB coach) showed promise, but probably should still be labeled as a flavor of the month type right now. At least Phillips has had a very solid coaching record and a great track record with developing defenses. If they hired Norv, I would not have been behind the decision in the least bit...but at least the Wade hiring followed a logical path (even though the immediate Garrett mancrush is a bit perplexing to say the least).




YAKUZA

[IrishOrange15]

The one thing that scares me about Phillips is what he can do with the Defense. There are some good players on that side of the ball and if Phillips can bring out the best of them and bring some good pressure which he is known for then look out.....

FWIW, Phillips may be the very best at getting his defenses at sacking the QB.

In the past 20 years, either as a head coach or D-Coordinator, his defenses have averaged 44.3 sacks per season.

In that time he's taken over 5 defenses (Philly, Denver, Buffalo, Atlanta, and San Diego). 4 of those 5 defenses increased their sack total his first season. Even the Eagles, who had an outstanding 51 sacks the season before Phillips came along, still managed to get 53 sacks in his first season. The Chargers were the only team that went down in sacks in his first season, going from 30 sacks in 2003 to 29 sacks in 2004. But they were a team that went 4-12 the season before and he greatly improved their defense in his first year and then they went to 47 sacks in 2005 and 61 in 2006.

On average, Phillips has increased a team's sack total in his first season by 27%. And on average during his entire tenure with the team's he's coached, he's kept their sack total increase at about the same level of 26%.

If the stats hold true for Phillips in 2007, Dallas is on pace for 43 sacks.

Who knows exactly if it will work out, but if you like a coach that likes to go out swinging for the fences...the Wade Phillips is your guy.




YAKUZA

[tr1]

The one thing that scares me about Phillips is what he can do with the Defense. There are some good players on that side of the ball and if Phillips can bring out the best of them and bring some good pressure which he is known for then look out.....

I thought this is what everyone said about Parcells.

[CPortJGibbs89]

I thought this is what everyone said about Parcells.I just saw the stats for every defense Phillips has taken over for and every defense has improved alot. Even if he imporves that defense a little they will be one hell of a defense.. I think our offense will be up for the challenge though...;)

[Tom [Giants fan]]

The one time I didn't do it was when Ray Handley was named coach of the Giants. I did not believe in him from day one. He went I think it was 6-10 or 7-9 but that was with a Super Bowl quality team. I'm not saying this will be the same situation with Philips or that the Cowboys are Super Bowl quality. But, they could be playoff quality and miss them because of coaching.

[Star4Ever]

']I'm just not sold on Philips as a head coach.

Yea, you're right. He's certainly no Tom Coughlin. :laugh: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Ken]

And so, the saga of the most over-rated pre-season squad begins...Anyone care to wager how much time TO spends on the field during training camp? Oooohhh...the pinky...the pinky.... :laugh:

Nick Eatman - Email
DallasCowboys.com Staff Writer
May 10, 2007 7:32 PM
http://www.dallascowboys.com/news.cfm?id=7890F5FF-AFC4-81A7-FF62A09E82D7B06B

Phillips didn't point out a few players he's excited to see this weekend, but rather all of them.

IRVING, Texas - For the most part, new Cowboys head coach Wade Phillips has had to go by hearsay when it comes to evaluating his players.


Not sure how they are overrated when they are not even rated.

Care to explain?

[Ken]

']The one time I didn't do it was when Ray Handley was named coach of the Giants. I did not believe in him from day one. He went I think it was 6-10 or 7-9 but that was with a Super Bowl quality team. I'm not saying this will be the same situation with Philips or that the Cowboys are Super Bowl quality. But, they could be playoff quality and miss them because of coaching.
This is probably the best team Phillips has ever had. He should be able to at least not screw it up.

We will see what happens though. I'm not overly confident in his HCing ability but I am confident our defense will be better.

I don't view Phillips as a liablity as a head coach either.

[DWinzit]

']The one time I didn't do it was when Ray Handley was named coach of the Giants. My favorite coach all time!!!:D

[DWinzit]

I think Cowher will be gone. Wade is a lot better head coach and D-Coordinator than given credit for. His record and his defensive rankings speak for themselves. My guess is that Jones wanted somebody to finally get them to be a really good defense that can sack the QB (over the years, Jones has repeatedly mentioned their inability to sack the QB). Wade is one of the best at getting his defenses at sacking the QB. Over the last 20 years, be it as a head coach or a D-Coordinator, his defenses have averaged 44.3 sacks per season (which is outstanding). And on average, he's increased his defense's total sack count by 27% within his first year with the team.

I think Jones wants Garrett to be the head coach given Sean Payton's success, but realized he was not ready. So instead he's going in with the plan of giving Wade 2-3 years and let him develop the defense and let Garrett develop and then let Garrett take over.

I'm not really sure who people think Jones should have hired. There were no real big name head coaches out there available, except Cowher who had no intention of coaching this season. The rest of the candidates like Rivera (who now is a freaking LB coach) showed promise, but probably should still be labeled as a flavor of the month type right now. At least Phillips has had a very solid coaching record and a great track record with developing defenses. If they hired Norv, I would not have been behind the decision in the least bit...but at least the Wade hiring followed a logical path (even though the immediate Garrett mancrush is a bit perplexing to say the least).




YAKUZAI don't think you'll find too many who wouldn't agree Wade was a better choice than Norv! A 3-4 guy with who has experienced success, although it doesn't seem to be sustained, makes him a legit gap filler for Dallas.

There is a definitive man crush on Garrett. It will be very interesting to see how the season plays out. By Jerry giving Garrett; and Wade for that matter, the opportunity this year, he knows he owns them. That is the one thing about Jerry; he wants control and will have it with both coaches.

[bubba9497]

This is probably the best team Phillips has ever had. He should be able to at least not screw it up.
.


I'd say the Elway Broncos team, no contest

Buffalo may have been better when Wade took over than the pokes

[ArmchairRedskin]

Wade Phillips and Jason Garrett? :laugh:

Might as well be Laurel and Hardy!



http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/9/9c/320px-10045196.jpg

[IrishOrange15]

I don't think you'll find too many who wouldn't agree Wade was a better choice than Norv!

Not here because Skins fans haven't completely lost their mind and still loathe Norv.

But I do know this. When Wade was hired (and he would've been the San Diego coach if Dallas didn't land him first), it was often thought of as a "puppet hire", and still is.

But when the Chargers hired Norv, the media...especially ESPN...claimed this was a "great hire" and that it "promoted continuity" despite Norv having coached the Chargers for only 1 year and that was five freaking years ago.

So Jones makes the "puppet hire" when he gets the best coach available that fits their defensive scheme and has a much better record than Norv, not to mention that Jones was on record saying he wanted Parcells back. But the Chargers make the "great hire" with no agendas at all despite firing a coach that just went 14-2 and everybody knows he got fired because he and the GM didn't get along.

I generally think that fans believe Wade is a joke of a coach despite his 45-35 record and is on par with Norv. In fact, I think most fans consider him the defensive version of Norv. I really think Wade is a far better head coach, but also a better D-Coordinator than Norv was an O-Coordinator. Unfortunately for Wade, he's never had the defensive equivalent of Emmitt Smith, Michael Irvin, and Troy Aikman all having their primes at the same time.



YAKUZA

[IrishOrange15]

I'd say the Elway Broncos team, no contest

Buffalo may have been better when Wade took over than the pokes

The Broncos weren't very good when Wade became the head coach. They had Elway and Shannon Sharpe, but their best running back was Rod Bernstein and their best WR was Derek Russell.

On defense he had Steve A****er, but after that it was Karl Mecklenberg who was in his second to last season and Simon Fletcher who was 31.

I think he inherited better players when he became head coach at Buffalo even though they went 6-10 the season before. He had Flutie who came out on fire. Antowain Smith was in his prime and was solid, but they had Thurman Thomas as a 3rd down back. They also had Eric Moulds in his prime, and an aged Andre Reed. On defense he had an old, but still good Bruce Smith, Phil Hansen, Sam Rogers, Pat Williams, Ted Washington and Marcellus Wiley. Not overwhelming talent, but still pretty solid.



YAKUZA

[IrishOrange15]

I thought this is what everyone said about Parcells.

He still brought a team that went from 15-33 the three seasons before to a team that went 34-30 during his tenure.

OTOH, Joe Gibbs took over a team that went 20-28 the three seasons before to a team that has gone 21-27 so far in Gibbs' second tenure.





YAKUZA

[DWinzit]

I will never understand that whole media love affair with Norv to SD. He would have been a true puppet to Jerry. I do feel Wade is a puppet, just to a lesser degree then Norv would have been.

Regarding Wade and Norv's coordinator abilities, I think they fall into a similar category. Good coordinators, average to below average head coaches.

Perhaps this marriage with Dallas will turn out well with Jerry calling the shots, but I feel that creates a train wreck situation down the road.

Although Wade never had the Emmitt, Aikman, Irvin group on offense (which few coaches were fortunate enough to have a scenario like that one) he did enjoy one of the best ever QB's with John Elway. Elway had good players around him like Shannon Sharpe, Glyn Milburn and Anthony Miller along with a real good OL. While in Buffalo he had offensive players such as Eric Moulds, Andre Reed, Antowain Smith and Jay Riemersma. Wade did not by any means have a group of bums (sorry Bum) on his offenses.

[bubba9497]

I will never understand that whole media love affair with Norv to SD. He would have been a true puppet to Jerry. I do feel Wade is a puppet, just to a lesser degree then Norv would have been.

.



The reason Norv was passed up was because he wanted a say in his coaching staff....

[Peregrine]

Phillips will be equally excited to get his team off the field this season :-)

I gauruntee it!

[DWinzit]

The reason Norv was passed up was because he wanted a say in his coaching staff....Yeah, that would have been great for us Redskin fans!!! Ireally wish they picked Norv

[IrishOrange15]

The reason Norv was passed up was because he wanted a say in his coaching staff....

No, the reason why Norv was passed up was because Wade was a far better head coach in his career. It's not like there's none of Wade's guys out there. At least 5 of Wade's assistants are his guys. Norv wanted Ron Rivera, but after that didn't complain. Rivera was an issue because the Bears were going to hold onto him and try to force Dallas to give up draft picks for him.

As an actual head coach (interim stints not included), Wade has a career 45-35 record. Norv has a career 58-82 record. Wade has 1 losing season out of 5 years compared to Norv having 6 losing seasons in 9 seasons of coaching. Wade Phillips is proven to be a far better head coach than Norv Turner.




YAKUZA

[IrishOrange15]

Regarding Wade and Norv's coordinator abilities, I think they fall into a similar category. Good coordinators, average to below average head coaches.

If I can ever find it, I'd have to post it. But Footballoutsiders.com did an outstanding statistical blog post on how overrated as a Coordinator Norv is. As it was best described, Norv is like the CEO that takes over a company that is $20 million in debt and gets them to $12 million in debt in his first season, then leaves and the company goes back to being $20 million in debt. His successes are greatly overstated and do not have a lasting impact and if anything are due to the law of averages kicking in.

Wade on the other hand has taken lousy defenses and repeatedly improved them greatly and made them top flight defenses during his tenure. And his head coaching record compared to Norv's speaks volumes.

Norv seems like a nice guy and Dallas had his glory years under him, but he's the definitive type of person that's living off of 3 years of great success, which happened nearly 15 years ago.





YAKUZA

[DWinzit]

Norv's been handed an incredibly talented football team. If (when IMO) he fails, it will be his last oportunity to be head coach. He should have stayed in SF where he had a very successful campaign as OC. I can't help but feel sorry for Charger fans!:2cents:

[DWinzit]

I understand the decision on Wade over Norv, as well as over many of the other suitors. The existing 3-4 defensive personnel combined with Wade's prior coaching experience and use of the 3-4 made him a decent fit.

However his age and lack of power or say in daily team activity will almost certainly wear on him. Even if he is moderately successful, there is a good chance he is gone within two years.

Whether Garrett, Cowher or someone else taking over, are you at all concerned bringing in a stop gap type HC like this presents continuity issues with an organization? When he leaves, new staff as well as new personnel to fit the desires of the regime will be required. Constant switching of coaching is not usually healthy for an organization.

[bubba9497]

No, the reason why Norv was passed up was because Wade was a far better head coach in his career. It's not like there's none of Wade's guys out there. At least 5 of Wade's assistants are his guys. Norv wanted Ron Rivera, but after that didn't complain. Rivera was an issue because the Bears were going to hold onto him and try to force Dallas to give up draft picks for him.

As an actual head coach (interim stints not included), Wade has a career 45-35 record. Norv has a career 58-82 record. Wade has 1 losing season out of 5 years compared to Norv having 6 losing seasons in 9 seasons of coaching. Wade Phillips is proven to be a far better head coach than Norv Turner.



usually
YAKUZA




yeah, keep telling yourself that :laugh:


Wow Wade was allowed 5 of his own guys .... :applause:


most coaches, get ALL of their own coaching staff....

so again Wade was hired over Norv, because Norv wanted a say in hiring his Staff

[BigDFan5]

The reason Norv was passed up was because he wanted a say in his coaching staff....

Norv disagrees, he said there was no truth to rumors he was making demands

[bubba9497]

The Broncos weren't very good when Wade became the head coach. They had Elway and Shannon Sharpe, but their best running back was Rod Bernstein and their best WR was Derek Russell.

On defense he had Steve A****er, but after that it was Karl Mecklenberg who was in his second to last season and Simon Fletcher who was 31.

I think he inherited better players when he became head coach at Buffalo even though they went 6-10 the season before. He had Flutie who came out on fire. Antowain Smith was in his prime and was solid, but they had Thurman Thomas as a 3rd down back. They also had Eric Moulds in his prime, and an aged Andre Reed. On defense he had an old, but still good Bruce Smith, Phil Hansen, Sam Rogers, Pat Williams, Ted Washington and Marcellus Wiley. Not overwhelming talent, but still pretty solid.

YAKUZA

both Broncos & Buffalo were good teams, despite their average record the year before Wade took over.

Denver in 91 went 12-4 and lost in the AFC Champ. Game

in 92 they were 8-8 but were 15th in offense despite losing their top RB from the previous year and was 13th on defense, #3 the year before

three pro bowlers in Steve A****er (db), Michael Brooks (lb), Shannon Sharpe (te).

and had on the team guys like

Steve A****er (db), Tyrone Braxton (db), Michael Brooks (lb), Greg Kragen (dl), Karl Mecklenburg (lb), Dennis Smith (db), Brian Sochia (dl).

[Jeremiah_Johnson]

Anyone care to wager how much time TO spends on the field during training camp? Oooohhh...the pinky...the pinky.... :laugh:

*


I bet he's on the field more than ST who will be holding out. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:



I'm telling you this is classic. Your house is burning down Tr1, and its only in OTA's, and your wanting to wrag on other teams players????

If I ever go to war, I want you by my side. You have an uncanny ability to block out everything around you, no matter how bad, and focus on trying to beat down the enemy. Good stuff bro, good stuff.

[bubba9497]

Norv disagrees, he said there was no truth to rumors he was making demands

Norv said he didn't disagree about Garrett, not that he didn't want to have a say in his coaching staff


believe what you want... poke fans always do regardless of the truth :laugh:

but bragging about Wade getting to have 5 of his own coaches, tells everything

[HeHateMe]

']I'm just not sold on Philips as a head coach.

And you are with Coughlin?

[HeHateMe]

IMO Jerry brought him in to give Dallas 1-2 years, so they can get into the Cowher sweepstakes!

I can envision that too.

And I'd be one happy camper if it came true.

[HeHateMe]

Not here because Skins fans haven't completely lost their mind and still loathe Norv.

But I do know this. When Wade was hired (and he would've been the San Diego coach if Dallas didn't land him first), it was often thought of as a "puppet hire", and still is.

But when the Chargers hired Norv, the media...especially ESPN...claimed this was a "great hire" and that it "promoted continuity" despite Norv having coached the Chargers for only 1 year and that was five freaking years ago.

So Jones makes the "puppet hire" when he gets the best coach available that fits their defensive scheme and has a much better record than Norv, not to mention that Jones was on record saying he wanted Parcells back. But the Chargers make the "great hire" with no agendas at all despite firing a coach that just went 14-2 and everybody knows he got fired because he and the GM didn't get along.

I generally think that fans believe Wade is a joke of a coach despite his 45-35 record and is on par with Norv. In fact, I think most fans consider him the defensive version of Norv. I really think Wade is a far better head coach, but also a better D-Coordinator than Norv was an O-Coordinator. Unfortunately for Wade, he's never had the defensive equivalent of Emmitt Smith, Michael Irvin, and Troy Aikman all having their primes at the same time.



YAKUZA

Not to mention if Dallas hadnt hired Phillips, he wouldve been tabbed as HC of San Diego when Schott was let go.

[BigDFan5]

Norv said he didn't disagree about Garrett, not that he didn't want to have a say in his coaching staff


believe what you want... poke fans always do regardless of the truth :laugh:

but bragging about Wade getting to have 5 of his own coaches, tells everything

You said he wanted a say in coaching staff and wade got a say just as norv would have.

[Ken]

both Broncos & Buffalo were good teams, despite their average record the year before Wade took over.

Denver in 91 went 12-4 and lost in the AFC Champ. Game

in 92 they were 8-8 but were 15th in offense despite losing their top RB from the previous year and was 13th on defense, #3 the year before

three pro bowlers in Steve A****er (db), Michael Brooks (lb), Shannon Sharpe (te).

and had on the team guys like

Steve A****er (db), Tyrone Braxton (db), Michael Brooks (lb), Greg Kragen (dl), Karl Mecklenburg (lb), Dennis Smith (db), Brian Sochia (dl).
I'm confused, do you still think they were better teams than this years Cowboys?

Keep in mind the Cowboys had 7 pro bowlers last year without Newman or Owens being selected.

Not to mention they had the #3 offense in the NFL.

[ArmchairRedskin]

I bet he's on the field more than ST who will be holding out. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:



I'm telling you this is classic. Your house is burning down Tr1, and its only in OTA's, and your wanting to wrag on other teams players????

If I ever go to war, I want you by my side. You have an uncanny ability to block out everything around you, no matter how bad, and focus on trying to beat down the enemy. Good stuff bro, good stuff.



Since when is skipping OPTIONAL OTA's the same thing as sitting on a bike all training camp ?



Since NEVER! :laugh:

[bubba9497]

I'm confused,

so what's new





do you still think they were better teams than this years Cowboys?

Keep in mind the Cowboys had 7 pro bowlers last year without Newman or Owens being selected.

Not to mention they had the #3 offense in the NFL.



did the Cowboys finish better than 12-4 or go to the Championship game a year before Wade took over?

or have one of the greatest QB's ever?

The Bronco's slipped to 8-8 that season mainly because of injuries, but those '06 super cowboys finished 9-8 counting the playoffs :jerk: so much better

the two years before Wade in Denver 20-12, AFC Division Title and 1-1 in the playoffs

The two years before Wade in Pokeville, Pokes 18-14, No titles and 0-1 in the playoffs

All the stars listed above... and again John F'n Elway at QB


please enough of the homer bull **** replys

[bubba9497]

You said he wanted a say in coaching staff and wade got a say just as norv would have.


no he didn't.... Norv wanted to chose his whole staff... and wasn't sold on Garrett as an OC just yet


come on, I know you guys hate to talk the truth if it isn't all rosey and all but Jerrah hired the entire offensive staff, and half the defensive before hiring Wade

that's a fact... spin until you puke... doesn't change a damn thing :laugh:

[bubba9497]

Since when is skipping OPTIONAL OTA's the same thing as sitting on a bike all training camp ?



Since NEVER! :laugh:


Just ignore JJ

he's replacing Westy as the board clown :laugh:

ever notice he can't stay on topic, nor present any facts to the argument... not once ever has he posted anything on relevance... just sad comic relief

and he has a sick obsession with the Redskins... he mentions them in every post about the cowboys.... explains why poke fans live on this board, they are closet Skin fans :thumbsup:

I also think he has a crush on tr1 the way he stalks him from thread to thread :kiss:

[tr1]

I bet he's on the field more than ST who will be holding out. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:



I'm telling you this is classic. Your house is burning down Tr1, and its only in OTA's, and your wanting to wrag on other teams players????

If I ever go to war, I want you by my side. You have an uncanny ability to block out everything around you, no matter how bad, and focus on trying to beat down the enemy. Good stuff bro, good stuff.

Wow, a thread about the pukes, and a puke fan brings in a Skins player. Imagine that!

History tells us two thing: Sean Taylor acts up and never misses games and TO acts up and misses games.

I'll take Sean Taylor.

[DWinzit]

Just ignore JJ

he's replacing Westy as the board clown :laugh:

ever notice he can't stay on topic, nor present any facts to the argument... not once ever has he posted anything on relevance... just sad comic relief

and he has a sick obsession with the Redskins... he mentions them in every post about the cowboys.... explains why poke fans live on this board, they are closet Skin fans :thumbsup:

I also think he has a crush on tr1 the way he stalks him from thread to thread :kiss::rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:He is a tr1 stalker isn't he!:laugh:

[BigDFan5]

no he didn't.... Norv wanted to chose his whole staff... and wasn't sold on Garrett as an OC just yet


come on, I know you guys hate to talk the truth if it isn't all rosey and all but Jerrah hired the entire offensive staff, and half the defensive before hiring Wade

that's a fact... spin until you puke... doesn't change a damn thing :laugh:


Sorry bubba Norv disagrees, Do you have a link to where he said these things?

As for hiring the entire offensive staff and half the D staff before Wade I dont even know what to say, I thought you were above flat out makingt things up. There was a grand total of 1 person hired before Wade

[ArmchairRedskin]

Just ignore JJ

he's replacing Westy as the board clown :laugh:

ever notice he can't stay on topic, nor present any facts to the argument... not once ever has he posted anything on relevance... just sad comic relief

and he has a sick obsession with the Redskins... he mentions them in every post about the cowboys.... explains why poke fans live on this board, they are closet Skin fans :thumbsup:

I also think he has a crush on tr1 the way he stalks him from thread to thread :kiss:



Which visiting fan doesn't have a crush on tr1? :laugh:

[bubba9497]

Sorry bubba Norv disagrees, Do you have a link to where he said these things?

As for hiring the entire offensive staff and half the D staff before Wade I dont even know what to say, I thought you were above flat out makingt things up. There was a grand total of 1 person hired before Wade


okay where is your link detailing exactly what Norv said...?

I mean seriously all your argument is.. if you don't have a link to a quote from 5 months ago... then it isn't true

even though it is common knowledge and was reported on several national TV and Radio shows :rolleyes:



While I may have exaggerated a bit about "when" some of the coaches where hired, what I meant (should have been clearer) was "who" hired them... AKA Coach Jerrah... you guys are bragging about Wade only choosing 5 of his own coaches (which is stretching it) unless Dallas has less than 10 total coaches that means more than 50% of the coaching staff was hired by Jones... outside of his son Puppet Jr.

AND talk about making stuff up..... :laugh:

one person hired before Wade... hmmmm off the top of my head OC Jason Garret and the OL Coach/ play caller Tony Sparano, , Secondary coach Todd Bowles, Jim Jeffcoat DE coach where all on board before Wade was hired, three where on Parcells staff... as where Joe Juraszek Strength and Conditioning and Kade Rodgers DL coach


WR coach Ray Sherman, and LB coach Dat Nguyen, QB coach Wade Wilson, were chosen and hired by Jerrah, not Wade

[IrishOrange15]

yeah, keep telling yourself that :laugh:


Wow Wade was allowed 5 of his own guys .... :applause:


most coaches, get ALL of their own coaching staff....

so again Wade was hired over Norv, because Norv wanted a say in hiring his Staff

Perhaps if you were remotely right, then it would be okay. Parcells kept plenty of coaches from the Campo regime. Gibbs kept Cerrato along. So I guess both Parcells and Gibbs were/are just puppets for Jones and Snyder all along.

And Jeff Fisher would definitely disagree with you on getting all of their own assistants part, since he refuted that claim on Sirius radio a few months ago.





YAKUZA

[IrishOrange15]

WR coach Ray Sherman, and LB coach Dat Nguyen, QB coach Wade Wilson, were chosen and hired by Jerrah, not Wade

Sherman was a Wade hire and for the most part, Wade wanted Nguyen as well but I'd take that as half Jerry half Wade hire.





YAKUZA

[BigDFan5]

okay where is your link detailing exactly what Norv said...?

I mean seriously all your argument is.. if you don't have a link to a quote from 5 months ago... then it isn't true

even though it is common knowledge and was reported on several national TV and Radio shows :rolleyes:

You are the one saying he wasnt hired because of demands prove it find some quotes from Norv



While I may have exaggerated a bit about "when" some of the coaches where hired, what I meant (should have been clearer) was "who" hired them... AKA Coach Jerrah... you guys are bragging about Wade only choosing 5 of his own coaches (which is stretching it) unless Dallas has less than 10 total coaches that means more than 50% of the coaching staff was hired by Jones... outside of his son Puppet Jr.

There was a grand total of 1 coach hired by Jerry that was Garrett, who afre these other coaches he supposedly hired before Wade got there?

The Cowboys have 14 coaches 1 was hired by Jones, 5 were hired by Parcells and retained by Wade, and 8 were hired by Phillips

AND talk about making stuff up..... :laugh:

one person hired before Wade... hmmmm off the top of my head OC Jason Garret and the OL Coach/ play caller Tony Sparano, , Secondary coach Todd Bowles, Jim Jeffcoat DE coach where all on board before Wade was hired, three where on Parcells staff... as where Joe Juraszek Strength and Conditioning and Kade Rodgers DL coach


Jeffcoat has notg worked here since 2005, and the others were already here. You realize of course someone under contract was not just hired before Wade they had been here multiple years and were hired by Parcells and retained by Phillips


WR coach Ray Sherman, and LB coach Dat Nguyen, QB coach Wade Wilson, were chosen and hired by Jerrah, not Wade

According to who you? Phillips made the calls according to all involved and how in the world did you come up with Sherman being hired by Jerry where is the connection there?

[tr1]

I also think he has a crush on tr1 the way he stalks him from thread to thread :kiss:


Eeewwwww!

[tr1]

Which visiting fan doesn't have a crush on tr1? :laugh:

Double Eewwwww!

[tr1]

Perhaps if you were remotely right, then it would be okay. Parcells kept plenty of coaches from the Campo regime. Gibbs kept Cerrato along. So I guess both Parcells and Gibbs were/are just puppets for Jones and Snyder all along.

And Jeff Fisher would definitely disagree with you on getting all of their own assistants part, since he refuted that claim on Sirius radio a few months ago.





YAKUZA

Turner wasn't specific about the reasons he didn't end up in Dallas, but it's widely assumed Turner wanted more control than owner Jerry Jones was willing to give _ control Turner never had in Washington or Oakland.

http://www.philly.com/philly/wires/ap/sports/football/2007-02-08_ninersthrilledtokeepnorvturner.html


Jerrah wanted Garrett...and Norv probably didn't. Wade agrees to everything Jerry wants. It's as simple as that.

[IrishOrange15]

Turner wasn't specific about the reasons he didn't end up in Dallas, but it's widely assumed Turner wanted more control than owner Jerry Jones was willing to give _ control Turner never had in Washington or Oakland.

http://www.philly.com/philly/wires/...norvturner.html

1. It's from Philly.com

2. It's widely assumed

3. Let's say "widely assumed" is correct. Who in their right mind would give a coach like Norv full control?


But, keep grasping.




YAKUZA

[tr1]

1. It's from Philly.com

2. It's widely assumed

3. Let's say "widely assumed" is correct. Who in their right mind would give a coach like Norv full control?


But, keep grasping.




YAKUZA

Okay, go ahead and ignore the common wisdom. Puke fans are way smarter than that... :laugh:

Jerry is calling the shots...can't you please be objective about that?

It's okay...the truth will set you free.

[bubba9497]

1. It's from Philly.com

2. It's widely assumed

3. Let's say "widely assumed" is correct. Who in their right mind would give a coach like Norv full control?


But, keep grasping.




YAKUZA



wait chosing his own coaches is wanting full control??!!


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


keep grasping.

[bubba9497]

You are the one saying he wasnt hired because of demands prove it find some quotes from Norv


wait you didn't make the point Norv said it wasn't an issue?.. that was your argument to dispute mine... so back it up

save the.. "well it is up to you to prove it" BS....you made a direct reference, so as you always holler... provide a link

BTW tr1 (the Poke Nation Heart Throb) above provided a link for you, in his rebuttal to IO15's feeble spin attempt




There was a grand total of 1 coach hired by Jerry that was Garrett, who afre these other coaches he supposedly hired before Wade got there?

The Cowboys have 14 coaches 1 was hired by Jones, 5 were hired by Parcells and retained by Wade, and 8 were hired by Phillips


So the coaches were hired by Parcells, and that Jones decided to keep on the Staff before WADE WAS HIRED, doesn't count as being hired before Wade WAS HIRED :LAUGH:


PLEASE STOP.......... you're killing me :rotflmao:



Jeffcoat has notg worked here since 2005, and the others were already here. You realize of course someone under contract was not just hired before Wade they had been here multiple years and were hired by Parcells and retained by Phillips


so again, correct me where they weren't hired BEFORE Wade :laugh:

Just admit you were wrong... Wade didn't hire them and it was Jerrah's decision to keep them

and that is the entire point... Wade didn't hire most of his staff... unlike 99% of NFL coaches ever been hired... (don't ask for a link of that estimation ) :rolleyes:



According to who you? Phillips made the calls according to all involved and how in the world did you come up with Sherman being hired by Jerry where is the connection there?

here we go again, you can't dispute what I say, so you go to the if you can't provide the link it isn't true BS... and even when I do provide the link, you say.. well it's not true

it was reported on NFL Live, and other shows that Sherman was Jerrah's choice... and until they invent away to link a TV show from 4 months back... :rolleyes:


another classic example of Poke Fan Mantra

[Birdlives]

Wow. So now folks are arguing about who's choosing what coaches? Really?

Whatever the case, we all know, even cowboys fans know it, this is Jerry's team through and through. To pretend that Jerry isn't in complete control is beyond ridiculous, regardless of what coaches are put in place and by who. if I was a cowboys fan I'd just be hoping that

A. Jerry doesnt show up on the sidelines anymore and,
B. He doesn't decide to start calling down plays from the owners box.

The way he did his draft would make me nervous already. Well, actually, based on how defensive the cowboys fans around here have become I guess they do seem rather nervous, dont they. Good luck with all that.

;) :laugh:

[bubba9497]

Wow. So now folks are arguing about who's choosing what coaches? Really?

Whatever the case, we all know, even cowboys fans know it, this is Jerry's team through and through. To pretend that Jerry isn't in complete control is beyond ridiculous, regardless of what coaches are put in place and by who. if I was a cowboys fan I'd just be hoping that

A. Jerry doesnt show up on the sidelines anymore and,
B. He doesn't decide to start calling down plays from the owners box.

The way he did his draft would make me nervous already. Well, actually, based on how defensive the cowboys fans around here have become I guess they do seem rather nervous, dont they. Good luck with all that.

;) :laugh:


you know how poke fans are, you can't say anything remotely non positive about the all mighty pokes without them getting their panties in a bunch, even if the statement is completely true (in fact the truer the statement it, the more ruffled they get)

The Poke Fan Mantra

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/bubba9497/evil.jpg

[IrishOrange15]

Okay, go ahead and ignore the common wisdom. Puke fans are way smarter than that... :laugh:

Jerry is calling the shots...can't you please be objective about that?

It's okay...the truth will set you free.

Jerry's calling all of the shots, then who drafted Spencer in the first round? Common wisdom says it was a Wade pick. But, let's go with the "widely assumed" theory instead. :doh:



YAKUZA

[IrishOrange15]

wait chosing his own coaches is wanting full control??!!


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


keep grasping.

Even still, who would let Norv ever have any control? (and all Norv supposedly wanted was Rivera, whom the Bears were waiting on to see if they could force the Cowboys to give up a draft pick for).

I don't understand how refusing to hire Norv was considered a bad move.

But, keep grasping.



YAKUZA

[Birdlives]

Jerry's calling all of the shots, then who drafted Spencer in the first round? Common wisdom says it was a Wade pick. But, let's go with the "widely assumed" theory instead. :doh:



YAKUZA

I would certainly believe Wade is behind the position choice if not the actual player, but there is no way of knowing for sure who deceided. My impression is that you're right. Wade told Jerry what he needed, and Jerry pulled the trigger.

[IrishOrange15]

I would certainly believe Wade is behind the position choice if not the actual player, but there is no way of knowing for sure who deceided. My impression is that you're right. Wade told Jerry what he needed, and Jerry pulled the trigger.

Wow, logic prevails. Never thought it would happen.




YAKUZA

[Birdlives]

Wow, logic prevails. Never thought it would happen.

YAKUZA


Of course not. Being a dallas cowboys fan, logic eludes you. I know it seems strange and eerie, but dont be afraid, logic is your friend. It can help you.

[IrishOrange15]

Of course not. Being a dallas cowboys fan, logic eludes you. I know it seems strange and eerie, but dont be afraid, logic is your friend. It can help you.

Funny, you just agreed with me that the Spencer pick was most likely a Wade Phillips decision. You can't even follow what you just posted.




YAKUZA

[Birdlives]

Funny, you just agreed with me that the Spencer pick was most likely a Wade Phillips decision. You can't even follow what you just posted.




YAKUZA

I know what I posted. I also know what you posted in response. Do you really want to have a sarcasm back and forth?

[bubba9497]

Even still, who would let Norv ever have any control? (and all Norv supposedly wanted was Rivera, whom the Bears were waiting on to see if they could force the Cowboys to give up a draft pick for).

I don't understand how refusing to hire Norv was considered a bad move.

But, keep grasping.



YAKUZA


The challenge, find one post where I said not hiring Norv was a bad move... I said jerrah passed on Norv because Norv wanted a say in hiring most of his coaches... which is the case

really, why do you take something stated and completely fabricate something else out of it :laugh:

hiring Norv or hiring Wade not much difference...

[bubba9497]

You can't even follow what you just posted.




YAKUZA


Says the pot to the kettle

[BigDFan5]

wait you didn't make the point Norv said it wasn't an issue?.. that was your argument to dispute mine... so back it up

save the.. "well it is up to you to prove it" BS....you made a direct reference, so as you always holler... provide a link

BTW tr1 (the Poke Nation Heart Throb) above provided a link for you, in his rebuttal to IO15's feeble spin attempt


I have the link standing by as soon as you provide one where Norv said he wanted total control

LMAO Tr1 link from a philly paper talking about assumptions is funny





So the coaches were hired by Parcells, and that Jones decided to keep on the Staff before WADE WAS HIRED, doesn't count as being hired before Wade WAS HIRED :LAUGH:


PLEASE STOP.......... you're killing me :rotflmao:

No coaches that were already under contract were not "hired" before wade. Should he have fired every coach after Parcells left or let Phillips decide who stays and goes





so again, correct me where they weren't hired BEFORE Wade :laugh:

Just admit you were wrong... Wade didn't hire them and it was Jerrah's decision to keep them

and that is the entire point... Wade didn't hire most of his staff... unlike 99% of NFL coaches ever been hired... (don't ask for a link of that estimation ) :rolleyes:


You are killin me bubba WADE kept them on staff. No owner fires all coaches when their current coach retires Wade ratained the ones he wanted

and I dont need a link to something you are making up




here we go again, you can't dispute what I say, so you go to the if you can't provide the link it isn't true BS... and even when I do provide the link, you say.. well it's not true

it was reported on NFL Live, and other shows that Sherman was Jerrah's choice... and until they invent away to link a TV show from 4 months back... :rolleyes:

Sure they did bubba problem is the things you can link to say it was a pPhillips choice

[THEHEREAFTER]

The challenge, find one post where I said not hiring Norv was a bad move... I said jerrah passed on Norv because Norv wanted a say in hiring most of his coaches... which is the case

...

I think it's been proven time and time again in this thread that Norv Turner is a horrible head coach. You should know that better than anyone.

[IrishOrange15]

Originally Posted by bubba9497
The challenge, find one post where I said not hiring Norv was a bad move... I said jerrah passed on Norv because Norv wanted a say in hiring most of his coaches...

Let's call a spade a spade here. You're busting on Jones for not wanting to hire Norv because supposedly Norv wanted to hire his own assistants (which Norv denies and at most was reported that he wanted Ron Rivera, whom Dallas would have had to have given up draft picks to make their D-Coordinator).

By busting on Jones, you are implying in every way that he made the wrong move by not hiring Norv. If you deny that you are saying that, then you're being hypocritical.

The point is that your point is completely illogical. How many Cowboys fans are saying "oh darn, wish Jerry would've made Norv the head coach."

Or how many Skins fan are saying "phew, if Jerry's ego wasn't so big the Cowboys would have had Norv as the head coach."

My guess is that you couldn't even count them on one hand.





YAKUZA

[Riggo#44]

Let's call a spade a spade here. You're busting on Jones for not wanting to hire Norv because supposedly Norv wanted to hire his own assistants (which Norv denies and at most was reported that he wanted Ron Rivera, whom Dallas would have had to have given up draft picks to make their D-Coordinator).

By busting on Jones, you are implying in every way that he made the wrong move by not hiring Norv. If you deny that you are saying that, then you're being hypocritical.

The point is that your point is completely illogical. How many Cowboys fans are saying "oh darn, wish Jerry would've made Norv the head coach."

Or how many Skins fan are saying "phew, if Jerry's ego wasn't so big the Cowboys would have had Norv as the head coach."

My guess is that you couldn't even count them on one hand.





YAKUZA

I think Bubba's point was more directed at the very unusual practice of hiring the OC before the HC and having Jerry's handpicked choice forced on Phillips. Like it or not, this the "old" Jerry at work again. He had to find a coach that would accept this being forced on him. Enter Phillips, not known for his disciplinarian skills.

On it's face value, it undermines the credibility of the coach. Even the appearance of the Coach not having total authority can cause cracks. (Not saying it will, but it can). It conveys a message that the coach is not in control. And with someone as tepremental as TO, this is a dangerous game.

Jerry handpicked a coach w/ 2 years total experience with no more basis then "he liked the cut of his jib." You don't find that the least bit disconcerting or even odd?

[bubba9497]

I think Bubba's point was more directed at the very unusual practice of hiring the OC before the HC and having Jerry's handpicked choice forced on Phillips. Like it or not, this the "old" Jerry at work again. He had to find a coach that would accept this being forced on him. Enter Phillips, not known for his disciplinarian skills.

On it's face value, it undermines the credibility of the coach. Even the appearance of the Coach not having total authority can cause cracks. (Not saying it will, but it can). It conveys a message that the coach is not in control. And with someone as tepremental as TO, this is a dangerous game.

Jerry handpicked a coach w/ 2 years total experience with no more basis then "he liked the cut of his jib." You don't find that the least bit disconcerting or even odd?




Bingo




but IrishOrange15 already knew that.... he just changes the point of the argument to avoid admitting the truth or being wrong :laugh:

[bubba9497]

Let's call a spade a spade here. You're busting on Jones for not wanting to hire Norv because supposedly Norv wanted to hire his own assistants (which Norv denies and at most was reported that he wanted Ron Rivera, whom Dallas would have had to have given up draft picks to make their D-Coordinator).


are you for real? seriously

It was WIDELY reported on all NFL media outlets, Norv wanted a say in hiring his own staff

tr1 even gave you an old quote confirming as such, just because you want to think it wasn't true doesn't change the reality that it was a major factor

you keep spouting Norv said he didn't... yet provide nothing to back it up (per usual)




By busting on Jones, you are implying in every way that he made the wrong move by not hiring Norv. If you deny that you are saying that, then you're being hypocritical.

WRONG... my point has been clear from the onset

Jerry passed on NORV because he wants to run the show, and make the decision, and he was afraid Norv wouldn't be as easy to manipulate as puppet boy Wade

NOT one time have I said or implied the Poke should have hired Norv, or he was the better option... in fact I said straight up, hiring Wade or Norv you;re getting practically the same coach


The point is that your point is completely illogical. How many Cowboys fans are saying "oh darn, wish Jerry would've made Norv the head coach."

Or how many Skins fan are saying "phew, if Jerry's ego wasn't so big the Cowboys would have had Norv as the head coach."

My guess is that you couldn't even count them on one hand.

YAKUZA

the whole point is about Jerry Jones wanting to coach the team... not about which coach is better :rolleyes:

seriously, this makes about the tenth time, you have distorted my point to suit your needs, and avoid accepting facts

you know it, I know it, everyone who reads your posts know it

[bubba9497]

I have the link standing by as soon as you provide one where Norv said he wanted total control

LMAO Tr1 link from a philly paper talking about assumptions is funny

the only thing funny is you avoiding backing up your bogus claims

you have nothing, as usual


Norv, who has worked for Jerry before, also wanted the job badly, but not at any price. Having already lost at Washington and Oakland, Turner knew he could not come here and lose again and ever hope to have another chance as an NFL head coach. He could handle the offense with Garrett learning the ropes, but he wanted Chicago's Ron Rivera as his defensive coordinator, and Rivera would have taken the Cowboys back to the 4-3.

That, very likely, was the tipping point for Jones with Norv.

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/football/16670004.htm

Norv did give opinions on what he had seen after watching on film every game in December, plus the Seattle playoff contest.

Turner lost his chance by being truthful on personnel. Jerry didn't want to hear that. Phillips told us Thursday he hasn't yet studied the personnel, but Wade obviously knows the deal here.

Just like last season, Jerry has over-evaluated the talent for `07, although most of the local media, along with fandom, have been, and will be again, involved in the same pom-pom waving


http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/16672394.htm

Turner wasn't specific about the reasons he didn't end up in Dallas, but it's widely assumed Turner wanted more control than owner Jerry Jones was willing to give _ control Turner never had in Washington or Oakland.

http://www.philly.com/philly/wires/ap/sports/football/2007-02-08_ninersthrilledtokeepnorvturner.html

an AP article, not a philly newspaper

Norv's downfall in Dalas was that he wanted to have the kind of control that Nolan does with the 49ers

http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/default.asp?item=489263




No coaches that were already under contract were not "hired" before wade. Should he have fired every coach after Parcells left or let Phillips decide who stays and goes

the old illogic logic

Fact Wade didn't hire the coaches

Fact Jerry decided to keep the coaches he did,

Fact, when a Head coach resigns or is fired, most often the coaching staff is let go, oh once in a while one or two coaches stays on after being interviewed by the new HC, but never half the staff, and not by the owners decision.. but the HC's choice (well Jerrah thinks he's the HC so that makes a little sense :laugh: )


Wade Phillips' biggest worry, now and for the rest of `07?

Does he have the right offensive coaches to develop Romo and move the offense forward? Too bad that Wade didn't have the opportunity to hire those coaches.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/16672394.htm



New head coach Wade Phillips, is being asked to retain several Cowboy assistant coaches from the Bill Parcells’ regime. This is never a good thing for a new head coach because those coaches, when trouble or controversy starts, tend to run to the boss, in this case Jerry Jones.

Their allegiances usually are to the owner who kept them employed, not the new head coach who was basically forced to keep them. This may not sound like a big deal, but it is within any coaching staff. Every assistant’s loyalties should be to the head coach, not the owner.

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/NFL_Czar


The owner, if he's a good one, can do that. The general manager can't, and there's the rub, because Jerry is all things Cowboy. GMs, by the nature of the job, will meddle, and Jones had already meddled in Wade Phillips' business, even before he was hired.

Jerry did that with the hiring of his latest boy wonder, Jason Garrett, who may or may not be the team's offensive coordinator. There seemed to be some question about his role at Thursday's news conference.

I have absolutely no problem with Garrett's hiring. I love it, in fact. I just wish it had been Phillips' decision, and Jerry trying to defend what he did by attempting to relate it to Bill Parcells' accepting Mike Zimmer as his defensive coordinator is simply disingenuous.

Zimmer was already on staff and was interviewed by Parcells, who agreed to give him a try. It's hardly the same.

Jerry may also have given us a clue when he declared that "Wade wanted it so bad." Badly enough, apparently, to accept Garrett as his offensive coordinator and maybe even elevate young Todd Bowles, another Jones favorite, to defensive coordinator. Without stooping to actual research, I would venture to guess that that would give the Cowboys the youngest and almost certainly the least-experienced pair of coordinators in the NFL.

That's the horse Phillips was willing to saddle up to get the job. I don't blame him. He's a Texan, and this is a team that's ready to win in the playoffs, if it gets the right nudge from the right person.

Norv, who has worked for Jerry before, also wanted the job badly, but not at any price. Having already lost at Washington and Oakland, Turner knew he could not come here and lose again and ever hope to have another chance as an NFL head coach. He could handle the offense with Garrett learning the ropes, but he wanted Chicago's Ron Rivera as his defensive coordinator, and Rivera would have taken the Cowboys back to the 4-3.

That, very likely, was the tipping point for Jones with Norv.



http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/football/16670004.htm


You are killin me bubba WADE kept them on staff. No owner fires all coaches when their current coach retires Wade ratained the ones he wanted

and I dont need a link to something you are making up

Sure they did bubba problem is the things you can link to say it was a pPhillips choice


okay Einstein show me where a team kept half the staff when a head coach left a team.. go ahead show me

oh wait you can't... so you just try and spin it around

Show me where it was reported anywhere that Wade interviewed the remaining staff, and HE DECIDED to keep them

oh wait you can't, becuase that is not what happened

you know the truth, so why the childish games to avoid admitting it :whoknows:

oh yeah

Poke Fan Mantra

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/bubba9497/2958620see20hear20speak20no20evil20.jpg

[Riggo#44]

the only thing funny is you avoiding backing up your bogus claims

you have nothing, as usual

But he tries to debate from a solid foundation of objectivity doesn't he? :jerk:

[tr1]

bubba...once again. Game. Set. Match.

:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

[BigDFan5]

the only thing funny is you avoiding backing up your bogus claims

you have nothing, as usual



still waiting on quotes from Norv bubba


Did you notice in the article you posted http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/merc...ts/16672394.htm

That it agreed with me and said

It's amusing to read those reports that Norv Turner was not hired by Jones because he "made too many demands." The same people writing that "demands" stuff a week ago were telling us Jones wanted Norv for the job only because Turner would be a comfort-level crony for Jerry. In other words, a softer way to say "puppet."


Turner didn't make demands on Jerry. He knows the man. "Demands" don't work with Jones. But Norv did give opinions on what he had seen after watching on film every game in December, plus the Seattle playoff contest.






Kinda hurts your arguments, but if Norv DID want Rivera as a DC I am glad he didnt get his way we are a 34 team not 43




Fact Wade didn't hire the coaches

No Bill Parcells did

Fact Jerry decided to keep the coaches he did,

No this is false

Fact, when a Head coach resigns or is fired, most often the coaching staff is let go, oh once in a while one or two coaches stays on after being interviewed by the new HC, but never half the staff, and not by the owners decision.. but the HC's choice (well Jerrah thinks he's the HC so that makes a little sense :laugh: )

When coaches resign most times coaches are retained as they were in this case, also we were looking for coaches in mid to late febuary long after most had already gotten jobs. I am sure others will be replaced next season



okay Einstein show me where a team kept half the staff when a head coach left a team.. go ahead show me

oh wait you can't... so you just try and spin it around

Right now there are 6 coaches on Norvs staff in san diego that were there before him (so much for his wanting to pick coaches)

On the Dolphins Cam Camerons staff has *at least* 8 coaches held over, I say at least because 11 coaches arent clickable but I would bet a few of thosee 11 were there before him


Kiffin in Oakland retained 6 coaches

Mangini with the Jets retianed 8 coaches has since replaced a couple of them


If you need some salt for that foot I can lend you some.




Show me where it was reported anywhere that Wade interviewed the remaining staff, and HE DECIDED to keep them

oh wait you can't, becuase that is not what happened


That is what happened and is why some like ILB Vincent Brown were released from their contracts

you know the truth, so why the childish games to avoid admitting it

Yes I do know the truth, but have no idea why you play childish games to avoid it

[Riggo#44]

Yes I do know the truth, but have no idea why you play childish games to avoid it

So Jerry didn't hand pick Garrett before he hired Wade?

[Hero21]

']I'm just not sold on Philips as a head coach.

Me neither Tom. He just seems to be another stopgap until what's his name is ready to take over as head coach.

[bubba9497]

still waiting on quotes from Norv bubba


why since I never once stated Norv said anything, but reported in the media.. I mean why would Norv know why he was not chosen? and if he did you think he is going to say..that it was the reason, with San Diego';s GM AJ Smith interviewing him

come on :laugh: you are not the naive'



and if you had ANYTHING you would already post it... but as usual you are just talk




Did you notice in the article you posted http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/merc...ts/16672394.htm

That it agreed with me and said

see above, but it agreed that Norv didn't bow down to Jerry




Kinda hurts your arguments, but if Norv DID want Rivera as a DC I am glad he didnt get his way we are a 34 team not 43

hurts nothing Dude, see above

and you can drop the "If"






No Bill Parcells did


give it up you know the truth, god admitt you are wrong, it's not the end of the world, and people will have more respect for you



No this is false



When coaches resign most times coaches are retained as they were in this case, also we were looking for coaches in mid to late febuary long after most had already gotten jobs. I am sure others will be replaced next season


please, again provide proof of this... you can't because YOU KNOW IT"S NOT TRUE :rolleyes:

I provided proof of where Jerrah decided to keep them

I mean just as a matter of common sense, a New Head Coach wants to hire his guys, or guys he is comfortable with to run his sysyems to win, not a bunch of someone elses hire..

How many coaches did Gibbs keep from Spurriers days... zero, How Many coaches did Coughlin keep fromthe previous Giants coaches staff? zero, How many coaches did Sean Payton keep from Hasletts staff in New Orleans? Zero, How about in Atlanta from Mara's staff? 3 A qb coach, a db coach, and a Asst. Strength coach

well? half the coaching staff? :laugh:

and the coaches that stayed... who interviewed them?????

not the owner




Right now there are 6 coaches on Norvs staff in san diego that were there before him (so much for his wanting to pick coaches)

lets see, when was Norv Hired? oh yeah after every other team had set their coaching staff for 2007... good example :rolleyes:



On the Dolphins Cam Camerons staff has *at least* 8 coaches held over, I say at least because 11 coaches arent clickable but I would bet a few of thosee 11 were there before him

the reason they aren't clickable is because they are NEW, and the guys still on the roster are assist DB coach, type guys who are in the second season, only one guy was their any longer a Quality Control coach woooooooo the team golpher :thumbsup:

8 out of what 23? 24? :laugh: = half the staff huh?


Kiffin in Oakland retained 6 coaches :rotflmao:

thanks for giving the perfect example of a Owner who wants to be the coach!!!

:applause: :applause:

Al Davis is the coach in Oakland, like Jones is in pokeville :laugh:

HELLO? that is why no coaoh wanted to take the Raiders job, because Davis insisted they must take on Ryan and the defensive staff.... why else would they hire a 31 year old college coach with zero NFL experience, or HC experience anywhere :rolleyes:

Kiffin is the AFC equalilant of Garrent again good example

oh yeah 6 = half the staff???



Mangini with the Jets retianed 8 coaches has since replaced a couple of them

I counted 5 out of a staff of 22 yeah that equals half the staff :rolleyes: and the ones that were kept were INTERVIEWED and retained by Mangini, not Johnson the owner

I said before there some coaches retained by the new HC, but here is the part you are avoiding ... I said ....NOT HALF THE STAFF :)


the direct quote

once in a while one or two coaches stays on after being interviewed by the new HC, but never half the staff, and not by the owners decision.. but the HC's choice




If you need some salt for that foot I can lend you some.

keep it, you need it more




That is what happened and is why some like ILB Vincent Brown were released from their contracts

:wtf: are you talking about? Still waiting for your proof of where Wade interviewed and hired them



Yes I do know the truth, but have no idea why you play childish games to avoid it

you know the truth but refuse to admitt it

seriously your whole argument has been,

"un uh, no that not it, no no no... I know you are but what am", type of variety

:laugh:


back up you BS, I gave you several verified quotes, which you just laugh off becauase they don't agree with what you want to believe, but you have provided nothing

NOTHING

[BigDFan5]

So Jerry didn't hand pick Garrett before he hired Wade?


what? when did I ever say that was the case? I said multiple times he hired Garret beforehand thats pretty obvious there

[BigDFan5]

why since I never once stated Norv said anything, but reported in the media.. I mean why would Norv know why he was not chosen? and if he did you think he is going to say..that it was the reason, with San Diego';s GM AJ Smith interviewing him

come on :laugh: you are not the naive'

Wait so unsourced reports with no quotes or sources just speculation are what YOU of all people are hnging their hat on?



and if you had ANYTHING you would already post it... but as usual you are just talk

LOL You have nothing but speculation





see above, but it agreed that Norv didn't bow down to Jerry

It also stated the opposite of what you said. It said he made no such demands on Jerry





hurts nothing Dude, see above

and you can drop the "If"

Why would I drop the if since you have shown nothing but speculation







give it up you know the truth, god admitt you are wrong, it's not the end of the world, and people will have more respect for you

How am I wrong again? Those coaches WERE hired by Bill Parcells right?





I provided proof of where Jerrah decided to keep them

No you didnt

I mean just as a matter of common sense, a New Head Coach wants to hire his guys, or guys he is comfortable with to run his sysyems to win, not a bunch of someone elses hire..

and as I have already proven not every coach gets a whole new staff, and as you said yourself all coaching staffs were set when we hired our coach making it harder to get a staff together



How many coaches did Gibbs keep from Spurriers days... zero, How Many coaches did Coughlin keep fromthe previous Giants coaches staff? zero, How many coaches did Sean Payton keep from Hasletts staff in New Orleans? Zero, How about in Atlanta from Mara's staff? 3 A qb coach, a db coach, and a Asst. Strength coach
Luckily I never said NO coach gets a whole new staff, you on the other hand said no new coach EVER keeps other coaches




well? half the coaching staff? :laugh:

and the coaches that stayed... who interviewed them?????

not the owner

you realize that "half" of Dallas' coaching staff arent holdovers right?

As for Owners interviewing you keep implying Jerry interviewed them to stay, you can prove this right?




lets see, when was Norv Hired? oh yeah after every other team had set their coaching staff for 2007... good example :rolleyes:

HELLO he was hired a week and a half after Phillips, at the time Phillips was hired every staff had been set too GREAT example :rolleyes:




the reason they aren't clickable is because they are NEW, and the guys still on the roster are assist DB coach, type guys who are in the second season, only one guy was their any longer a Quality Control coach woooooooo the team golpher :thumbsup:

8 out of what 23? 24? :laugh: = half the staff huh?

wait its asst DB coaches that were held over?? Umm their defensive coordinator was held over, in fact he was given a new contract BEFORE Cam Cameron was hired, their special teams coach has been there 6 years, Their offensive line coach, their Linebackers coach, their secondary coach, their defensive line coach ALL holdovers. Please tell me you actually looked at their site and didnt just assume it was "assistant DB coaches" that were retained.

You say only one guy was there longer than 2 years (why would that matter)

But you were again wrong guys there over 2 years are;

Special teams coach 6 years
their secondary coach 22 years

and then finally their D quality control

How did you miss the others bubba?

So the Dolphins had 8 holdovers, had a DC hired BEFORE the head coach, and most of the important Asst positions are team holdovers




thanks for giving the perfect example of a Owner who wants to be the coach!!!

Juts like all the other examples







I counted 5 out of a staff of 22 yeah that equals half the staff :rolleyes: and the ones that were kept were INTERVIEWED and retained by Mangini, not Johnson the owner


Like I said they have replaced a couple in this offseason, I took the liberty of seeing who was on their coaching staff LAST year it taks some time googling but it is easy info to get and 8 is the number not 5, you have a link saying mangini interviewed them? Oh BTW 6 is not half of 15 either and if you wanna add Garret 7 is not half of 15 either




I said before there some coaches retained by the new HC, but here is the part you are avoiding ... I said ....NOT HALF THE STAFF :)


the direct quote


umm half the staff was not retained in Dallas either. But as I have established it is not unusual for coaches gto be held over we held over 6, other teams held over more than that so.....







keep it, you need it more

afraid not





:wtf: are you talking about? Still waiting for your proof of where Wade interviewed and hired them

ubba I could have wade phillips himself tell you and you would deny it and say he was forced to say that. Dont act like you want reality, you want your slanted spin




you know the truth but refuse to admitt it

seriously your whole argument has been,

"un uh, no that not it, no no no... I know you are but what am", type of variety

:laugh:


back up you BS, I gave you several verified quotes, which you just laugh off becauase they don't agree with what you want to believe, but you have provided nothing

NOTHING


WAIT!! what verified quotes have you given me? None whatsoever. I have given proof that coaches are heldover on many staffs, I have shown where Norvs friend says Norv made NO demands, you give me an article thats says its widely assumed. really widely assumed is your credible quote?

[bubba9497]

I am not going to justify all that bull **** with answers

you & I both know the truth

but a couple of points you want to gloss over that are total fabrication

1. I provided link and quotes stating EXACTLY what I have been saying all along, that it widely known that Jerrah passed over Norv for Wade, because Norv wanted a say in his staff

you have provided nothing but saying I'm wrong

2. While you want to argue semantics , the fact is Most of the coaching staff was hired.......... (KEYWORD > ) before Wade, no matter who actually hired them (though technically Jones did since he is the owner)... and the decision to retain them was made by Jones, not Wade... Jones interviewed several of them for the HC jobs for goodness sake

3. For someone who always screams for a link no matter how well known the statement is around the league, I find it extremely hypocritical for you to completely ignore the links and quote provided, and respond with nothing more than your opinion, and when challenged to provide evidence to back you claims, you hem and haw, skirm and make outlandish demands... but never ONCE provide even a shred of proof

4. According to you and fellow Poke fans Wade hired 5 of his own staff, now I know simple math is difficult for poke fans but

the Dallas coaching Staff web page currently list 14 asst. coaches

14-5 = 9... 9 = MORE than 50% of 14 or more than HALF the staff

5. Stop changing what I say, and argue a fictional point

ex. the Coaching Holdover.. I said from the beginning New HC sometimes will keep a couple of previous asst coaches after they interview them, but NOT half the staff, but you argue that I said it never happens, and give some cherry picked examples (even going back two years ago to the jets because there wasn't that many in the new coaching hires this season)

the point was Phillips couldn't hire most of his own staff... ie HALF OF THE STAFF

if you are so insecure that you have to distort what I say to knock down your straw man... why even engage in any debate?

6. Unless you are willing to accept being wrong, or provide any evidence to back your claims, or attempt to debunk mine

stop wasting my time with these childish pissing contest responses

[Who Del]

Hahahahahahahahahaha

[BigDFan5]

I am not going to justify all that bull **** with answers

:laugh:

you & I both know the truth

Yes we do, and for some reazson you are fighting it



1. I provided link and quotes stating EXACTLY what I have been saying all along, that it widely known that Jerrah passed over Norv for Wade, because Norv wanted a say in his staff

not a single quote from Norv or anybody. You showed media speculation hell one of them even said it was assumed

you have provided nothing but saying I'm wrong

:laugh:


2. While you want to argue semantics , the fact is Most of the coaching staff was hired.......... (KEYWORD > ) before Wade, no matter who actually hired them (though technically Jones did since he is the owner)... and the decision to retain them was made by Jones, not Wade... Jones interviewed several of them for the HC jobs for goodness sake

wait now its most? Thats more than half, and since half was w2rong I am pretty sure most is wrong too

3. For someone who always screams for a link no matter how well known the statement is around the league, I find it extremely hypocritical for you to completely ignore the links and quote provided, and respond with nothing more than your opinion, and when challenged to provide evidence to back you claims, you hem and haw, skirm and make outlandish demands... but never ONCE provide even a shred of proof

Why would I respond to media speculation bubba? Once you show me some Norv Turner quotes I will buy it, but until then we will have to go with Norvs friend who specifically said there were no demands


4. According to you and fellow Poke fans Wade hired 5 of his own staff, now I know simple math is difficult for poke fans but

the Dallas coaching Staff web page currently list 14 asst. coaches

14-5 = 9... 9 = MORE than 50% of 14 or more than HALF the staff

I said he hired "5" where did I say that bubba?



5. Stop changing what I say, and argue a fictional point

ex. the Coaching Holdover.. I said from the beginning New HC sometimes will keep a couple of previous asst coaches after they interview them, but NOT half the staff, but you argue that I said it never happens, and give some cherry picked examples (even going back two years ago to the jets because there wasn't that many in the new coaching hires this season)

I argued what you said bubba you said "once in a while one or two coaches stay" and then went to the fictional half term after that


the point was Phillips couldn't hire most of his own staff... ie HALF OF THE STAFF

which is false


if you are so insecure that you have to distort what I say to knock down your straw man... why even engage in any debate?

Because watching you spin is hilarious

6. Unless you are willing to accept being wrong, or provide any evidence to back your claims, or attempt to debunk mine

stop wasting my time with these childish pissing contest responses

I have already shown you were wrong and it can be seen in this thread.

[bubba9497]

I am still waiting for you to back up ONE point you made

nada

Now some other Bull****


I argued what you said bubba you said "once in a while one or two coaches stay" and then went to the fictional half term after that


those original quote I made


once in a while one or two coaches stays on after being interviewed by the new HC, but never half the staff, and not by the owners decision.. but the HC's choice

whoops


not a single quote from Norv or anybody. You showed media speculation hell one of them even said it was assumed


I showed media reports, which is what 90% (estimate before you starting whining for a link) of everything argued about is based on

and all you have done to refute them is SAYING they are wrong.. that is it... period, hell you can do that for everything, at least I based my point on something that was tangible, and said by more than one person, and are supposedly people in the know

and please spare me this .."if you can provide one link where Norv said such and such" request to avoiding backing up your claims....

now since NO ONE said Norv said such and such that is rather stupid to ask for it is it not?

this is what most of your rebuttals are... ignoring what is said, and arguing or imply something else was said... that is childish pissing contest bull ...

in a debate, it is your responsibility to prove your point, not make demands of your opponent to do defend something first that he never brought up to begin with :doh:

also don't not ask anyone to prove a point with a link, when you will not provide one to back up your claim


I will concede you didn''t say five asst coaches were hired by Wade, however it was a point brought up in several threads that Wade hired five of his own coaches for his staff,

and no matter how you want to spin it, on the staff more than half of the coaches where hired before Wade, or where Jerry choice

Sherman, Wade Wilson, and Dat where all brought in, per Jerry's choice...two of the three had direct ties to Jerry, not Wade Phillips... and Sherman was brought in by Jerrah per several sources, and I am not going to spend time looking up the quotes, because it is too time consuming, and you won't acknowledge them anyway

here is a quot from on of your poke confederates who admits half the staff wasn't Wades hires

[quote=IrishOrange15]Sherman was a Wade hire and for the most part, Wade wanted Nguyen as well but I'd take that as half Jerry half Wade hire.

[BigDFan5]

I am still waiting for you to back up ONE point you made

nada

Now some other Bull****

I have backed what I said as much as you have




those original quote I made



whoops

Yes one or two like I said, whats the whoops? Phillips interviewed the holdovers. I cant link radio reports or I would.




I showed media reports, which is what 90% (estimate before you starting whining for a link) of everything argued about is based on

When you post something that says assumed and say it is a fact its not worth arguing over

and all you have done to refute them is SAYING they are wrong.. that is it... period, hell you can do that for everything, at least I based my point on something that was tangible, and said by more than one person, and are supposedly people in the know

The link YOU posted from a FRIEND of Norv Turner said there were no such demands. Thats pretty tangible considering they are close friends


and please spare me this .."if you can provide one link where Norv said such and such" request to avoiding backing up your claims....

You are saying he demanded it, I figured you saw something from him


now since NO ONE said Norv said such and such that is rather stupid to ask for it is it not?

Good so we have now established there are no credible reports saying Norv demanded this, but there is one from his good friend saying he did not.




in a debate, it is your responsibility to prove your point, not make demands of your opponent to do defend something first that he never brought up to begin with :doh:

You are the one that said this never happens I used recent examples to prove it wrong, You are the one saying Norv made demands that means you need to prove it not post speculative articles. I on the other hand showed you where his own friend said it was flase. You keep ignoring that point

also don't not ask anyone to prove a point with a link, when you will not provide one to back up your claim

You never showed a link to Norvs quotes, now you atre saying they dont exist


I will concede you didn''t say five asst coaches were hired by Wade, however it was a point brought up in several threads that Wade hired five of his own coaches for his staff,

I would hope you concede it since I didnt say it. Whoever did was mistaken.

and no matter how you want to spin it, on the staff more than half of the coaches where hired before Wade, or where Jerry choice

Wait now you want to change the criteria? Before it was half were hired BEFORE Phillips, I proved that false so now you want to use holdovers AND anyone YOU deem to be a Jerry Jones hire?

Sherman, Wade Wilson, and Dat where all brought in, per Jerry's choice...two of the three had direct ties to Jerry, not Wade Phillips... and Sherman was brought in by Jerrah per several sources, and I am not going to spend time looking up the quotes, because it is too time consuming, and you won't acknowledge them anyway

Phillips interviewed and signed off on each of them. Did Jerry recommend them hell yeah. Of course you wont look for links bubba I am used to that


here is a quot from on of your poke confederates who admits half the staff wasn't Wades hires

Sherman was a Wade hire and for the most part, Wade wanted Nguyen as well but I'd take that as half Jerry half Wade hire.


Who are you, me or anyone else to say who hired who? It can not be proven can it? We can speculate they were brought in by Jerry like I said hell yeah he recommended them. But Phillips did interview and approve them