Think the Falcons are second quessing the Schaub trade

[DWinzit]

The Falcons made out well in the unproven Matt Schaub trade. However, if Vick is substantially tied to the dog fighting ring, he will face suspension and possibly jail time.


Do you think they are second guessing the trade?

[Terence Newman 41]

Probably, but they wouldnt admit it :)

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

Yep, Schaub stood out to me as a legit starter when he came in during 2005. Got to go with what they have, looks like the Falcons are in for a long season.

[Duncan]

http://www.sundaypaper.com/CurrentArticles/tabid/98/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/50/050607-SPORTS-Rebel-without-a-cause.aspx

Rebel without a cause
Vick doesn’t care—and doesn’t have to
By Adam Krohn

If championships are won in the off-season, Michael Vick is screwed.

After an uninspiring 2006 campaign, the culmination of which was Vick flipping off the home crowd following a loss, his ignorant actions resemble those of his younger brother, Marcus, who stomps his foot on people when they’re lying on the ground and fires his gun at the neighborhood McDonald’s.

Now it’s big brother’s turn. ...

[dockeryfan]

ABsolutely not.

Vick is the face of the franchise, and he puts butts in the seats.

Blank MIGHT have a more competive team with Schaub.

but he makes a ton of money with Vick, and he's better than a lot of other QBs. It's a no brainer for Blank. Keep Vick.

[chrisbcbu]

ABsolutely not.

Vick is the face of the franchise, and he puts butts in the seats.

Blank MIGHT have a more competive team with Schaub.

but he makes a ton of money with Vick, and he's better than a lot of other QBs. It's a no brainer for Blank. Keep Vick.

Umm i think you are missing the entire point of the thread. Vick now has a legit shot at being suspended by the league and with no apparant backup who would start if Vick is not there?

[WileCoyote]

Vick is a playmaker type not a QB and he always has been overated,the falcons screwed themselves over with Schaub trade.......

[Hooper]

No. Because they got a lot for Schaub, who may be very overrated himself.

[skinfan2k]

No. Because they got a lot for Schaub, who may be very overrated himself.

the guy played in what 2 game and he is called a great qb.. how do u know? patrick ramsey looked like an all star in his first game

[Califan007]

Is everyone overlooking the point of this thread? lol...

If...IF...Vick is indeed found to be involved with the dog fighting scandal and gets suspended (or worse), I think the Falcons' declaration of "Vick is our QB" after trading away Schaub will be replayed on ESPN every hour on the hour, and TONS of criticism will be levied at them. What Atlanta got in return for Schaub will be irrelevant.

[IrishOrange15]

The Falcons made out well in the unproven Matt Schaub trade. However, if Vick is substantially tied to the dog fighting ring, he will face suspension and possibly jail time.


Do you think they are second guessing the trade?

I could care less about that. What I do care about is that I missed out on buying Vick's house in Virginia. Reportedly it was assessed at $775K and Vick sold it for $350k just to get rid of it. No bank in their right mind would turn down a loan for $350k and within a year somebody should make at least $400k off the place. That's quite a return there.




YAKUZA

[Hooper]

the guy played in what 2 game and he is called a great qb.. how do u know? patrick ramsey looked like an all star in his first game

That was my point. He's looked decent in two games and the Texans gave up a ton for him. Reminds me of Rob Johnson, who looked much better in limited action in Jacksonville than Schaub ever did in Atlanta.

[Daanie]

Umm i think you are missing the entire point of the thread. Vick now has a legit shot at being suspended by the league and with no apparant backup who would start if Vick is not there?

Joey Harrington :laugh:

[dockeryfan]

Umm i think you are missing the entire point of the thread. Vick now has a legit shot at being suspended by the league and with no apparant backup who would start if Vick is not there?
If you think Godell will suspend Vick, I have some beachfront property in Vegas to sell you.

Godell has put himself in a no win situation. If a high profile player like Vick breaks these"conduct" rules (which are completely undefined and 100% at the discretion of Goodell) then Goodell will have to come down on that high profile player or look like he's playing favorites.

But I guarantee you, there is a zero percent chance of Vick being suspended for this. Vick will go into PR mode, and Goodell will be happy enough with that. End of story.

No way Goodell suspends a player that brings in so much revenue to the league. No way.

[Skins247]

The Falcons made out well in the unproven Matt Schaub trade. However, if Vick is substantially tied to the dog fighting ring, he will face suspension and possibly jail time.


Do you think they are second guessing the trade?

What, you mean Joey Harrington and Chris Redman don't do it for you?

[pvkeeper19]

ABsolutely not.

Vick is the face of the franchise, and he puts butts in the seats.

Blank MIGHT have a more competive team with Schaub.

but he makes a ton of money with Vick, and he's better than a lot of other QBs. It's a no brainer for Blank. Keep Vick.
That doesn't make sense. More competitive team = more money because more fans watch the games and buy the merchandise.

Besides, Vick won't be putting many butts in the seats if he's watching the games from a jail cell.

[squatch66]

If you think Godell will suspend Vick, I have some beachfront property in Vegas to sell you.

Godell has put himself in a no win situation. If a high profile player like Vick breaks these"conduct" rules (which are completely undefined and 100% at the discretion of Goodell) then Goodell will have to come down on that high profile player or look like he's playing favorites.

But I guarantee you, there is a zero percent chance of Vick being suspended for this. Vick will go into PR mode, and Goodell will be happy enough with that. End of story.

No way Goodell suspends a player that brings in so much revenue to the league. No way.

do you realize how much of that revenue will be paid to pacman? if goddell doesnt at least suspend vick for both of his off field distractions this year (remember the plane trouble in miami?) pacman will get every lawyer he can after the nfl.

[dockeryfan]

That doesn't make sense. More competitive team = more money because more fans watch the games and buy the merchandise.

Besides, Vick won't be putting many butts in the seats if he's watching the games from a jail cell.
You're missing my point.

Goodell has taken Pacman and made an example out of him. But he won't with Vick. Even if he should.

You'd like to think that the world is fair, and that if one person gets punished, another should be punished in the same light if they so something similar.

In the real world, power and position determine that. You'd like to think that does not happen, but it really does. Vick will never see the inside of a jail cell, and he won't be suspended. He's the face of a whole franchise, and even casual fans know who he is. It would be bad for the nfl if Goodell suspends Vick. Not so with Pacman. Vick will skate with a slap on the wrist if avything. Hate to shatter anyone's glass figurine.

[thelongestbreath]

Umm i think you are missing the entire point of the thread. Vick now has a legit shot at being suspended by the league and with no apparant backup who would start if Vick is not there?


I heard Jeff George is looking to reunite with the Falcons. What's Heath doing these days?

[DWinzit]

No. Because they got a lot for Schaub, who may be very overrated himself.Hooper is correct. Atlanta made out very well in the trade. The Texans are gambling big on a virtually unproven talent.

If there was any chance in the rumored trade of Oakland's #1 pick for Vick, they should have jumped on that as well! They could have grabbed either Russell or JC. Atlanta made a good move signing Joe Horn and could have brought in Randy Moss if necessary!

Otherwise, I think they should have brought in better QB talent either through an early draft pick, Culpepper who would probably be healthy prior to any Vick suspension, or even someone like Trent Green.:2cents:
If you think Godell will suspend Vick, I have some beachfront property in Vegas to sell you.How much? This is one of the few times I do not agree with you Dock.

Everything revolves around Vicks status with the dogs and the thread stated "if substantially tied". If this happens, I think Vick can buy his way out of jail time, but Goodell will suspend! He would be crucified by the general public if he doesn't act appropriately. Vick might be Atlanta's "face", but their organization has taken worst b**** slappings then him getting suspended!

[skinsdude]

If you think Godell will suspend Vick, I have some beachfront property in Vegas to sell you.

Godell has put himself in a no win situation. If a high profile player like Vick breaks these"conduct" rules (which are completely undefined and 100% at the discretion of Goodell) then Goodell will have to come down on that high profile player or look like he's playing favorites.

But I guarantee you, there is a zero percent chance of Vick being suspended for this. Vick will go into PR mode, and Goodell will be happy enough with that. End of story.

No way Goodell suspends a player that brings in so much revenue to the league. No way.

This could not possibly be more incorrect. Whether Michael Vick is suspended or not will have nothing to do with his status within the league. Why would revenue generated by Michael Vick have anything to do with the situation if it is felt that his actions are detrimental to the image of the league. Roger Goodell is not concerned in the least about fans not buying Michael Vicks jersey or any of his other merchandise. He is very concerned about companies like Coke and Pepsi. They are the ones that provide the money that the NFL runs on. Michael Vick is a very, very small cog in a very, very large wheel.

[dockeryfan]

This could not possibly be more incorrect. Whether Michael Vick is suspended or not will have nothing to do with his status within the league. Why would revenue generated by Michael Vick have anything to do with the situation if it is felt that his actions are detrimental to the image of the league. Roger Goodell is not concerned in the least about fans not buying Michael Vicks jersey or any of his other merchandise. He is very concerned about companies like Coke and Pepsi. They are the ones that provide the money that the NFL runs on. Michael Vick is a very, very small cog in a very, very large wheel.
What you say has some merit, in that Vick is only one part, but you are very wrong in categorizing how big a part he is.

Pepople that do not know golf know who Tiger Woods or Phil Michelson are.
They know who Michelle Wei is even is they don't know what par is.

People that do not even watch football know who Michael Vick is.

Now of the people who don't know football at all, there is a huge proportion of them, I would say a majority that when you say pacman jones, they scratch their head. This whole thing has flown right under the radar for those people. But for one of the marquee players to be suspended, it would 1) destroy a franchise in Atlanta, and 2) rock the league in terms of bad press.

Goodell is taking the tack that David Stern has always used and that's use the big stick. But Goodell knows what makes money in this league, and if he does this to a marquee player, then it would be brought to the public's attention more, and you WOULD have a response by corporate sponsors (possibly). Goodell is simply not stupid enough to let this happen. That's why he's laid the groundwork early to let Vick appear to be penitent.

1) Goodell has a meeting with Vick
2) Blank has a meeting with Vick
3) Vick makkes a statement that he understands that his boss Blank wants him to shape up, and gives every appearance that he has no problem with doing so. "I'm taking it upon myself and giving everybody my word that things are going to get changed around. Things are going to get turned around. I have a game plan for it. . . . The company I keep, a lot of things gotta change, and I mean that from the heart."
Yeah, that sounds penitent.
4) He sells the house in question immediately- a brilliant PR move
5) Goodell makes statements to the press that the league isn't all about being punitive---that the league needs to take into assist players. That these are "complex problems" with " cultural and societal issues"

Put it all together, and you have the makings for a slap on the wrist of Vick.

[DCSaints_fan]

I heard Jeff George is looking to reunite with the Falcons. What's Heath doing these days?

Voting on our nations laws:

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/bio/keyvotes/?id=152545

[skinsdude]

What you say has some merit, in that Vick is only one part, but you are very wrong in categorizing how big a part he is.

Pepople that do not know golf know who Tiger Woods or Phil Michelson are.
They know who Michelle Wei is even is they don't know what par is.

People that do not even watch football know who Michael Vick is.

Now of the people who don't know football at all, there is a huge proportion of them, I would say a majority that when you say pacman jones, they scratch their head. This whole thing has flown right under the radar for those people. But for one of the marquee players to be suspended, it would 1) destroy a franchise in Atlanta, and 2) rock the league in terms of bad press.

Goodell is taking the tack that David Stern has always used and that's use the big stick. But Goodell knows what makes money in this league, and if he does this to a marquee player, then it would be brought to the public's attention more, and you WOULD have a response by corporate sponsors (possibly). Goodell is simply not stupid enough to let this happen. That's why he's laid the groundwork early to let Vick appear to be penitent.

1) Goodell has a meeting with Vick
2) Blank has a meeting with Vick
3) Vick makkes a statement that he understands that his boss Blank wants him to shape up, and gives every appearance that he has no problem with doing so. "I'm taking it upon myself and giving everybody my word that things are going to get changed around. Things are going to get turned around. I have a game plan for it. . . . The company I keep, a lot of things gotta change, and I mean that from the heart."
Yeah, that sounds penitent.
4) He sells the house in question immediately- a brilliant PR move
5) Goodell makes statements to the press that the league isn't all about being punitive---that the league needs to take into assist players. That these are "complex problems" with " cultural and societal issues"

Put it all together, and you have the makings for a slap on the wrist of Vick.

While I certainly respect your opinion, I don't agree with any of it. First of all I am not saying that Michael Vick will or will not get suspended. I don't know and I don't care. What I am saying is that if Michael Vick does not get suspended it will not have anything to do with his status in the game. I also think that you are greatly overstating his status in the game. He never has and never will have the status of Tiger Woods or even Phil Mickelson. Simply put Michael Vick has never done anything in his sport to command any positive attention. Also, I think that you are greatly overestimating the concern that Roger Goodell has on this situations impact on the Atlanta Falcons. I would hope that he see's that they are a party at fault in this situation and as a result must suffer the consequences. Do you think that the little dictator David Stern would place any player in the NBA above the league? No way, and I don't think that Roger Goodell would. I certainly don't see how you can catagorize a suspension as rocking the NFL with bad press. Pacman's suspension is not generating any bad press. From what I can see it is viewed as a positive from most fans and every franchise in the league. It is a positive. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

[scyber]

I heard Brett Farve is looking for a new team. Perhaps he wants to end his career where it started.

[Veretax]

Vick is a playmaker type not a QB and he always has been overated,the falcons screwed themselves over with Schaub trade.......

I'll trade you Mark Brunnel and our 5th Round pick in 08 for their 4th rounder in 08 and Maybe Jamal Anderson heh ;)


If you think Godell will suspend Vick, I have some beachfront property in Vegas to sell you.

Godell has put himself in a no win situation. If a high profile player like Vick breaks these"conduct" rules (which are completely undefined and 100% at the discretion of Goodell) then Goodell will have to come down on that high profile player or look like he's playing favorites.

But I guarantee you, there is a zero percent chance of Vick being suspended for this. Vick will go into PR mode, and Goodell will be happy enough with that. End of story.

No way Goodell suspends a player that brings in so much revenue to the league. No way.

I Don't agree that Vick will get a slap on the wrist, but I really feel nothing will be done this year in 2007. I just have a feeling that the feet will get drug until it no longer matters or would be as strong as the Pacman deal. However, if Vick doesn't shape up it could very well be 08 he could be suspended in.

[dockeryfan]

First of all I am not saying that Michael Vick will or will not get suspended.I am. It will not happen. Put money on it. There is already talk of Goodell reducing Tank Johnsons suspension because he's already served time in jail and payed his debt. That lays the groundwork for any subjective interpretation Goodell wants.
What I am saying is that if Michael Vick does not get suspended it will not have anything to do with his status in the game. You are failing to regognize the impact suspending a marquee player would have.
He never has and never will have the status of Tiger Woods or even Phil Mickelson. You could not be more wrong. I'm not talking about talent, I'm talking about name recognition. Case in point, when this whole dog thing came up in conversation last week, a woman who knows NOTHING about football, let alone any other sport, said, "isn't he that football player?" If she knows, then other non football fans know as well. You have to realize that advertizers have used his likeness everywhere. Nike, Coke, Kraft, Rawlings...Forbes ranks him the 33rd on their list of top 100 athletes. He used to be 19th. Also, I think that you are greatly overestimating the concern that Roger Goodell has on this situations impact on the Atlanta Falcons.
The Falcons just can't take that kind of salary cap hit and not be crushed. Goodell knows this. If 1/32 of the league takes a body blow like that, it's bad for everyone. Goodell knows this. I certainly don't see how you can catagorize a suspension as rocking the NFL with bad press.A suspension of a player ranked #33 on Forbes top 100?? Yes, that would rock the NFL. I don't think you realize the impact this would have on things like future advertising deals.Pacman's suspension is not generating any bad press.
Exactly my point.

Vick is a much bigger celebrity than you think he is.

[dockeryfan]

Of course, all this is contigent upon Vick cleaning up his act, which he will because he doesn't want to get off this gravy train. "I'm taking it upon myself and giving everybody my word that things are going to get changed around. Things are going to get turned around. I have a game plan for it. . . . The company I keep, a lot of things gotta change, and I mean that from the heart."

Long as he stays true to his word, nothing will happen to him. The playbook is already in place.

[skinsdude]

I am. It will not happen. Put money on it. There is already talk of Goodell reducing Tank Johnsons suspension because he's already served time in jail and payed his debt. That lays the groundwork for any subjective interpretation Goodell wants.

You are failing to regognize the impact suspending a marquee player would have.

So are you saying that Tom Brady and Payton Manning (the two most famous players in the NFL) are untouchable? Please tell me you don't believe that they are.

You could not be more wrong. I'm not talking about talent, I'm talking about name recognition.

See above comment. Name recognition doesn't mean squat when a player needs to be suspended for conduct detrimental to the league.

Case in point, when this whole dog thing came up in conversation last week, a woman who knows NOTHING about football, let alone any other sport, said, "isn't he that football player?" If she knows, then other non football fans know as well.

How could you not know who Michael Vick is, he's in trouble every week. You would have to live under a rock to not see him on the news every night. That's the problem, he is not known for what he does on the football field only his problems off of the field.

You have to realize that advertizers have used his likeness everywhere. Nike, Coke, Kraft, Rawlings...Forbes ranks him the 33rd on their list of top 100 athletes. He used to be 19th.

Nike, Coke, Kraft, and Rawlings would not currently touch Michael Vick with a 10 foot pole. That is why the NFL would not hesitate suspending Michael Vick. When was the last time you saw Michael Vick endorsing a product on TV. Can't remember huh.

The Falcons just can't take that kind of salary cap hit and not be crushed. Goodell knows this. If 1/32 of the league takes a body blow like that, it's bad for everyone. Goodell knows this. A suspension of a player ranked #33 on Forbes top 100?? Yes, that would rock the NFL. I don't think you realize the impact this would have on things like future advertising deals.

The Tennesee Titans, a very small market team, will be taking a significant cap hit with Pacmans suspension. I hope you don't think that this every entered into Roger Goodells decision.

Vick is a much bigger celebrity than you think he is.

Again, the bottom line is, Michael Vick's celebrity will have no bearing whatsoever on whether he is suspended or not. It will be, as it should be, a non-factor.

[dockeryfan]

Nike, Coke, Kraft, and Rawlings would not currently touch Michael Vick with a 10 foot pole. That is why the NFL would not hesitate suspending Michael Vick. When was the last time you saw Michael Vick endorsing a product on TV. Can't remember huh.
I'm talking about endorsements for the NFL, not for Vick. You really don't get it, that is becoming clearer with each post.
The Tennesee Titans, a very small market team, will be taking a significant cap hit with Pacmans suspension. I hope you don't think that this every entered into Roger Goodells decision.
Let me clear this up.
1) It isn’t actually a cap hit. Pacman jones just won’t be paid his money, and the Titans will try to recoup the prorated portion of his salary bonus if he never comes back. It’s 1.81 mil. If he does come back, they’ll take it out of future salary
2) Michael Vick signed a 10-year; $130 million contract extension in 2005 that guarantees him $37 million in bonuses.
A lot of that money is gone, and will never come back. About 26mil of the bonuses are prorated, and if say they traded him today, they wouldd take a 26 mil cap hit.

Are you really comparing 1.81 mil to 26mil?

Again, the bottom line is, Michael Vick's celebrity will have no bearing whatsoever on whether he is suspended or not. It will be, as it should be, a non-factor.
Pay attention. If he does all the right things, and starts making nicey-nice, there will be no suspension.
He will not be punished for past transgressions, because there is too much grey area. People have to PROVE he KNEW about the dog fighting, which I do not think they can do. (If they do, and he gets convicted that's another story entirely) As it is right now, he will skate. The wheels are already in motion. The fact that you can't see that is not my problem.

[skinsdude]

I'm talking about endorsements for the NFL, not for Vick. You really don't get it, that is becoming clearer with each post.

Let me clear this up.
1) It isn’t actually a cap hit. Pacman jones just won’t be paid his money, and the Titans will try to recoup the prorated portion of his salary bonus if he never comes back. It’s 1.81 mil. If he does come back, they’ll take it out of future salary
2) Michael Vick signed a 10-year; $130 million contract extension in 2005 that guarantees him $37 million in bonuses.
A lot of that money is gone, and will never come back. About 26mil of the bonuses are prorated, and if say they traded him today, they wouldd take a 26 mil cap hit.

Are you really comparing 1.81 mil to 26mil?


Pay attention. If he does all the right things, and starts making nicey-nice, there will be no suspension.
He will not be punished for past transgressions, because there is too much grey area. People have to PROVE he KNEW about the dog fighting, which I do not think they can do. (If they do, and he gets convicted that's another story entirely) As it is right now, he will skate. The wheels are already in motion. The fact that you can't see that is not my problem.

What is becoming apparent is that you are a Michael Vick fan who feels that the NFL and it's fanbase (or maybe the whole world) has some sort of vendetta against your player. I am well aware or the financial implications that are associated with a suspension. You can spout off all you would like but you are clearly in the minority in thinking that Michael Vick is above the wrath of the NFL. I notice that you didn't address the issue about Brady or Manning. Do you believe that they are above the league? They are Kings compared to Michael Vick. Do you think that they cannot be suspended because of who they are? Again, I certainly hope not. It's appearing as though maybe there are other issues that you feel are coming into play with this particular player that you are not mentioning because your rational just doesn't make sense. There are easily 10-15 players (if not far more) in the NFL that are more famous/popular than Michael Vick. Your arguement is weak at best and your "you don't get it" and "pay attention" commentary does little to strengthen it.

edit: I'll ride on the coattails of your pay attention comment. After three or so posts you still haven't recognized the fact that I am not saying that Vick will be suspended. I don't know and I don't care whether he will be, I am simply saying that he is not above suspension due to this larger than life status that you feel he has.

[dockeryfan]

What is becoming apparent is that you are a Michael Vick fan Wrong. I think he's overratedI notice that you didn't address the issue about Brady or Manning. Do you believe that they are above the league? Yes. If they were in the same situation, and the same things were set in motion...the meetings with Goodell and the respective owners, the public statement of changing his friends/apology, the grey legal status (nothing concrete), I would say the same thing.
If you don't want to recognize that status has it's privilege, go right ahead. Meanwhile, the OJs of the world will not get convicted.

If nothing else comes out, and everything stays the way it is right now, Vick will skate. Write it down.

[skinsdude]

Wrong. I think he's overratedYes. If they were in the same situation, and the same things were set in motion...the meetings with Goodell and the respective owners, the public statement of changing his friends/apology, the grey legal status (nothing concrete), I would say the same thing.
If you don't want to recognize that status has it's privilege, go right ahead. Meanwhile, the OJs of the world will not get convicted.

If nothing else comes out, and everything stays the way it is right now, Vick will skate. Write it down.

Write it down? Write what down. That he will skate? For the fourth time I don't know and don't care whether Michael Vick will be suspended or not. What I do know is that if he is not suspended, it will have nothing to do with this supposed status that he has. That has been my only point all along. Lastly, yes I will continue to believe that justice is blind, particularly in the NFL where status and wealth is so much closer than in the everyday world. And OJ. :doh: That is so far off of topic (and far outside of the context of this discussion), I will not go there.

[dockeryfan]

Write it down? Write what down. That he will skate? For the fourth time I don't know and don't care whether Michael Vick will be suspended or not. What I do know is that if he is not suspended, it will have nothing to do with this supposed status that he has. That has been my only point all along. Lastly, yes I will continue to believe that justice is blind, particularly in the NFL where status and wealth is so much closer than in the everyday world. And OJ. :doh: That is so far off of topic (and far outside of the context of this discussion), I will not go there.
Nice.

Either he deserves to be suspended and he will be
or
he deserves to be suspended and he won't be
or
he doesn't deserve to be suspended and he will be
or
he doesn't deserve to be suspended and he won't be.

You have conveniently chosen none of these things, but just keep saying that whether he gets suspended or not has nothing to do with his status in the league.

Real world. It does have an impact. Hate to break it to you.

[skinsdude]

Nice.

Either he deserves to be suspended and he will be
or
he deserves to be suspended and he won't be
or
he doesn't deserve to be suspended and he will be
or
he doesn't deserve to be suspended and he won't be.

You have conveniently chosen none of these things, but just keep saying that whether he gets suspended or not has nothing to do with his status in the league.

Real world. It does have an impact. Hate to break it to you.

Last post on the subject. I never stated any of the above options because I was never talking about any of those options (that's the fifth time). My original and subsequent posts were never addressing whether he will or won't get suspended or whether he deserves to be suspended or not. My posts where soley in response to your claim, that innocent or not, Michael Vick will not be suspended because of his popularity/stature in the league and what affect it may have on the Atlanta Falcons. Nothing more, nothing less. I went back and re-read my posts and they seem to be fairly clear on these points.

[dockeryfan]

I'll say it again, and then I'm done here.

The groundwork is being laid for Vick to not be suspended.

1) Goodell has a meeting with Vick
2) Blank has a meeting with Vick
3) Vick makkes a statement that he understands that his boss Blank wants him to shape up, and gives every appearance that he has no problem with doing so. "I'm taking it upon myself and giving everybody my word that things are going to get changed around. Things are going to get turned around. I have a game plan for it. . . . The company I keep, a lot of things gotta change, and I mean that from the heart."
Yeah, that sounds penitent.
4) He sells the house in question immediately- a brilliant PR move
5) Goodell makes statements to the press that the league isn't all about being punitive---that the league needs to take into assist players. That these are "complex problems" with " cultural and societal issues"

The reason this is being done is specifically because of his place in the league. Vick is not Pacman, and he's not Henry, or Tank Johnson even.
His suspension would hurt the NFL. Goodell will take every step to ensure that this will not happen. He will put the onus on Vick, and if Vick screws up now, well he's been warned, but as for what has transpired to date...no.

And the reason is specifically because of Vick's celebrity status, and the fact that he is, for better or worse, the face of one of the 32 franchises.

[skinsdude]

Controversy swirling, Vick sticks to plan

By Len Pasquarelli
ESPN.com
(Archive)
Updated: May 14, 2007, 11:42 PM ET
FLOWERY BRANCH, Ga. -- If noted X's and O's designer Bobby Petrino can coach up Michael Vick half as well as the guy who tutored the Atlanta quarterback for a Friday morning media session following a minicamp practice, you can book the Falcons for Super Bowl XLII.

Only if someone had stood before him holding cue cards could Vick have offered a more rehearsed performance. For a player whose success in six NFL seasons has been predicated largely on his remarkable improvisational skills, Vick uncharacteristically stuck to the game plan drawn up by his advisers.

In his first comments since a Thursday morning story on SI.com cited "sources who have known Vick well for years," saying that they are "convinced" he was involved in a dog-fighting ring in Virginia, the Falcons' quarterback was a model of the mundane. Anyone expecting a fiery response to what might well turn out to be an incendiary situation left here mightily disappointed.

Football at this time of year in Georgia, now that spring practice has ended for the Bulldogs, will never be the kind of three-ring circus evoked in other NFL precincts by players running around in T-shirts and shorts. But the vexing Vick problems made Friday at least a two-ring production. Vick on center stage can be riveting theater. On Friday, it wasn't the stuff of off-Broadway, but rather a drama with a guy trying to get off the hot seat.

For much of the two-hour on-field practice, the first mandatory minicamp session of Petrino's stewardship, Vick atypically stood in the pocket and delivered laser passes to receivers. After the workout, he sat in the bleachers, moving only to shift his weight on a couple of occasions.

By unofficial count, there were eight questions posed to Vick, including two football-related queries from Falcons radio analyst David Archer that all but broke the stride of anyone remotely attempting to develop a harder line of interrogation. Archer played quarterback for the Falcons in the '80s when times were similarly tough for the franchise. So maybe Archer considers himself a comrade-in-arms to the current practitioner at the position.

He certainly tossed Vick a couple life preservers. Not that it mattered much because, having been thoroughly prepped for the moment, Vick wasn't about to waver.

Vick wasn't quite contrived but neither was the Falcons' quarterback compassionate. Or, for that matter, passionate, period. Instead, he seemed like a guy who, while accustomed to the spotlight, had forgotten what it was like when the glare turned harsh. He spoke precisely 334 words in less than five minutes and, had the Falcons simply issued a news release enunciating the same essentials, the piece of paper on which it was written might have possessed more life.

As far as drama on Friday, well, there was none. Club officials debated whether to have Vick speak, decided it would have been worse to render him off-limits than to subject him to maybe five minutes worth of questions, and sent him out to meet the media masses. In short, he did what he had to do.

The standard Vick line when asked about his potential off-field problems: "It is still under investigation, and once it is over, we will talk about it. As of right now, I cannot talk about the situation."

He was asked about dog-fighting. About the house Vick owns in Virginia but in which he doesn't reside. About how the stories of his string of indiscretions have been portrayed in the media. About the quarterback's recent sit down with Arthur Blank in which the Falcons owner reportedly took a "stern" stance with the man who is the face of his franchise. And Vick, in lock-step with his professional handlers (read: attorneys), kept responding with nonanswers.

Said the embattled Falcons star, inarguably one of the NFL's highest-profile players: "Don't plan on talking about me anymore unless it's about football."

Until his off-field issues are resolved, and perhaps even after there is some conclusion to the seemingly nonstop tumult that has swirled around Vick, the nonfootball items are going to continue to be an item. Vick did manage this week to divest himself of the infamous Virginia property on which local authorities recently discovered three dozen allegedly abused dogs during a drug raid. His asking price for a home assessed at $747,000 was $350,000, and the fire sale price tag probably reflects Vick's desperation to unload the place.

He won't so easily unburden himself of his current collection of distractions. Divesting himself of that pack of problems, spit-polishing an image tarnished by implication and innuendo, and possibly by his dubious judgments in some of the associates with whom Vick has surrounded himself, will take a whole lot more than a "For Sale By Owner" sign prominently planted in the front yard.

In a front-page story in Friday's Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Blank told beat reporter Steve Wyche that "from the facts we have so far, it's [the dog-fighting investigation] not a pretty picture. It's clearly an issue, and we'll wait and see what revolves around it."

Blank counseled Vick, he said in the story, about the potential loss of lucrative endorsement deals. And he acknowledged the unthinkable, that Vick could be suspended by NFL commissioner Roger Goodell and the Falcons could be forced to play part of the season without their most critical offensive component.

While there wasn't a palpable sense of impending doom hanging over the well-manicured practice fields here, the Falcons are a team that seems preoccupied. It's as if quarterback-in-waiting Joey Harrington, the new $6 million insurance policy, is waiting for the next shoe to drop.

That said, Vick's teammates remain supportive, even though several appeared annoyed and even frustrated by the predictable onslaught of questions about him.

"If something happens [to Vick], it would be a shame, but we'll deal with it," said two-time Pro Bowl cornerback DeAngelo Hall, who also attended Virginia Tech. "But I believe him when he says there is nothing going on. I have to believe him."

Team officials continue to emphasize, and justifiably so, that Vick hasn't been charged with anything. And no matter how guilty Vick is of flawed judgments or poor choices, that's the case, at least for now.

It is notable that, when Vick emerged from the locker room after toweling down following practice, he was wearing a T-shirt the Falcons issued to players during their weightlifting program. Emblazoned across the back was a three-word message: Pay the price.

The Falcons and probably much of the league's public relations machine are hoping that, for Vick, that's not an omen.

Len Pasquarelli is a senior writer for ESPN.com.

It certainly appears as though Arthur Blank feels that a suspension is a very real possibility. Wow, this situation is ugly, far worse than I thought.

[Tom [Giants fan]]

You have to have a viable backup QB in this league. Starting QB's are getting hurt too much. And mobile QB's who run a lot are even more vulnerable. Now throw in some legal issues which may take him away for a couple of games and these games could cost the Falcons a playoff spot. It may be a lot of what ifs but the possibilities are there.

[pjfootballer]

1) I would guess that Vick won't be suspended. Not for his status in the league, but Vick probably won't be found guilty of being involved and Goodell will say that, it was his house, but he wasn't there and wasn't directly involved.

2) Vick is not a good QB. Great athlete, bad QB. He's a poor man's Randall Cunningham IMO. Cunningham could at least throw with accuracy and TDs.

3) Vick is not that important to the NFL, that they would lose revenue if he was suspended for 4 games. It won't be for the season like Pacman, so I'm sure the league survived before Vick, will survive during Vick and will surely survive after Vick. he's not THAT important.

4) I think Shaub will be the better QB in the long run for a franchise. He's a better passer and has better pocket skills than Vick. Vick is great for the league and Atlanta, but ultimatly they should've traded Vick and kept Shaub to run the WCO they have.

[DWinzit]

Any one care to change their stance on nothing happening to Vick?

Falcons | Animal control officer confident Vick was at dog fights
Tue, 15 May 2007 21:07:23 -0700

ESPN.con reports investigators do not agree with Atlanta Falcons QB Michael Vick that he was rarely at the Virginia house he owned where officials have found evidence of dog fighting. Vick also said he never took part in the practice, but the animal control coordinator for the City of Chesapeake in Virginia told Yahoo.com she has spoken with individuals who can "put Vick on that property" during matches. Kathy Strouse, the animal control coordinator, says she is "very confident" that Vick will be tied directly to the dog fighting on the property, and has challenged Surry County Commonwealth attorner Gerald Poindexter to bring charges. "He [Poindexter] was at the home and saw the equipment that we seized. When we were there, he said he had enough right there to issue an indictment. He didn't say who he would indict, but he said he had enough," Strouse said. Strouse indicated that the individuals who can place Vick at the scene have been reluctant to testify. An investigator told WVEC-TV in Norfolk, Va., that a meeting has been requested with Poindexter to review evidence, but Poindexter said that they have not requested a meeting a with him.

http://kffl.com/hotw/nfl

[DWinzit]

Videotapes sought of Vick watching dog fights
By Jason Cole, Yahoo! Sports

May 15, 2007 The lead investigator in the case of dog-fighting accusations against Atlanta quarterback Michael Vick said Monday that she believes there is substantial evidence to eventually tie Vick directly to the felony crime.

That evidence could eventually include videotapes of Vick at matches. Kathy Strouse, the Animal Control coordinator for the City of Chesapeake in Virginia, said Monday that she has received a tip from what is described as a "reliable source" that tapes of Vick exist that would tie him directly to the burgeoning scandal and a possible felony charge.
fill article - http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AoyD9a0jMrlLhZgxbQy1J6FDubYF?slug=jc-vick051407&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[Waleo32]

Yep, Schaub stood out to me as a legit starter when he came in during 2005. Got to go with what they have, looks like the Falcons are in for a long season.

What? What has Schaub accomplished? Nothing! Vick has been to the NFC championship game, he was the first person to beat GB at home in a playoff game. Why are people dismissing his accomplishments? I hate the media because they want to blast the man bust he doesn't play QB the way they want him to. I can't wait till the season starts so Vick can shut the haters up. The dude has non catching WRs, he was running the wrong system. The reason I say the wrong system, is because his arm is to vicious for the West Coast Offense, he needs to be throwing 15-20 yard deeps in or slants. I'm just sick of the Vick bashing.

[Waleo32]

1) I would guess that Vick won't be suspended. Not for his status in the league, but Vick probably won't be found guilty of being involved and Goodell will say that, it was his house, but he wasn't there and wasn't directly involved.

2) Vick is not a good QB. Great athlete, bad QB. He's a poor man's Randall Cunningham IMO. Cunningham could at least throw with accuracy and TDs.

3) Vick is not that important to the NFL, that they would lose revenue if he was suspended for 4 games. It won't be for the season like Pacman, so I'm sure the league survived before Vick, will survive during Vick and will surely survive after Vick. he's not THAT important.

4) I think Shaub will be the better QB in the long run for a franchise. He's a better passer and has better pocket skills than Vick. Vick is great for the league and Atlanta, but ultimatly they should've traded Vick and kept Shaub to run the WCO they have.

This is what I call a Mike Vick hater. Vick has no WR's but he's a bad QB? Hmmmm makes a lot of sense. If his WRs caught most of the passes that they dropped it would be a whole different story. Schaub is a better QB in the long run for the franchise? Where did you get that from? The last time I check Vick in a young career has been to the NFC title game and beat GB at home in a playoff game which at the time had never been done. Yet Vick isn't a good QB. That's what I like about haters, they just hate. They don't try to look at the facts. It's amazing! Schaub is playing for the Texans... we will see how many games they win. I guarantee if Vick is on the Texans they would be instant playoff contenders. That's the difference between Vick and your boy Schaub!

[skinsdude]

What? What has Schaub accomplished? Nothing! Vick has been to the NFC championship game, he was the first person to beat GB at home in a playoff game. Why are people dismissing his accomplishments? I hate the media because they want to blast the man bust he doesn't play QB the way they want him to. I can't wait till the season starts so Vick can shut the haters up. The dude has non catching WRs, he was running the wrong system. The reason I say the wrong system, is because his arm is to vicious for the West Coast Offense, he needs to be throwing 15-20 yard deeps in or slants. I'm just sick of the Vick bashing.

He's going to have a difficult time throwing TD's from the pokey. If he's tied to this dog fighting stuff, I hope they lock him up and throw away the key or at least keep him off of the football field for awhile. If you're sick of the Vick bashing you might want to talk to Mr. Vick and tell to smarten up. He has no one to blame but himself. I just don't understand how anyone can continue to defend this guy. He's an idiot, he's proved it time and time again.

[ntotoro]

The dude has non catching WRs, he was running the wrong system. The reason I say the wrong system, is because his arm is to vicious for the West Coast Offense, he needs to be throwing 15-20 yard deeps in or slants. I'm just sick of the Vick bashing.

That has to be the worst excuse for an apology I've ever heard.

A good QB doesn't blame his tools. A good QB can do more than just throw long passes. If the guy wants to be a RB, then he should be a RB. If one guy had a hard time catching passes, that would be one thing, but there's no way all his WR's are brain-dead 16 games a season.

Regardless, it'll be hard for this piece of **** to throw to anyone from prison.

[pjfootballer]

This is what I call a Mike Vick hater. Vick has no WR's but he's a bad QB? Hmmmm makes a lot of sense. If his WRs caught most of the passes that they dropped it would be a whole different story. Schaub is a better QB in the long run for the franchise? Where did you get that from? The last time I check Vick in a young career has been to the NFC title game and beat GB at home in a playoff game which at the time had never been done. Yet Vick isn't a good QB. That's what I like about haters, they just hate. They don't try to look at the facts. It's amazing! Schaub is playing for the Texans... we will see how many games they win. I guarantee if Vick is on the Texans they would be instant playoff contenders. That's the difference between Vick and your boy Schaub!

Call me what you want, but yeah, I'll say it. I'm a Vick hater. I hate his style of QBing. I'll agree that he is not made for the WCO. His WR's dropping passes is a piss poor excuse. His yearly stats tell the tale of a below average QB (passing):

Passing
Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yds YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate
2001 Atlanta Falcons 8 2 113 50 44.2 785 6.95 52 2 3 21/113 11 4 62.7
2002 Atlanta Falcons 15 15 421 231 54.9 2936 6.97 74 16 8 33/206 44 8 81.6
2003 Atlanta Falcons 5 4 100 50 50.0 585 5.85 49 4 3 9/64 7 2 69.0
2004 Atlanta Falcons 15 15 321 181 56.4 2313 7.21 62 14 12 46/266 35 8 78.1
2005 Atlanta Falcons 15 15 387 214 55.3 2412 6.23 58 15 13 33/201 27 3 73.1
2006 Atlanta Falcons 16 16 388 204 52.6 2474 6.38 55 20 13 45/303 30 8 75.7
TOTAL 74 67 1730 930 53.8 11505 6.65 74 71 52 187/1153 154 33 75.7

A career 54% passer in today's NFL is TERRIBLE. Only once has he eclipsed 20 TD's and it was ONLY 20. Career best in passing yards is ONLY 2900. QB rating below 80. HE SUCKS as a QB.

Now running is his thing:

Rushing
Year Team G GS Att Yds Avg Lg TD 20+ 1st
2001 Atlanta Falcons 8 2 31 289 9.3 35 1 6 15
2002 Atlanta Falcons 15 15 113 777 6.9 46 8 10 44
2003 Atlanta Falcons 5 4 40 255 6.4 43 1 2 14
2004 Atlanta Falcons 15 15 120 902 7.5 58 3 10 49
2005 Atlanta Falcons 15 15 102 597 5.9 32 6 5 41
2006 Atlanta Falcons 16 16 123 1039 8.4 51 2 11 55
TOTAL 74 67 529 3859 7.3 58 21 44 218

This I ACTUALLY give him credit for. He made one NFC Championship game. Whoopee. Let's party.

Shaub WILL be better for a franchise in the long run IMO. I didn't get that anywhere. Shaub has to show he can be the man, but I don't think a team would give up multiple draft picks and bring the guy in as a starter if the scouts and coaches didn't think he was worth a damn. Why didn't they trade for Vick if he's so much better?

And by the way, Shaub is not "my boy". I just think he has more long term potential. Wait till Vick gets a little older and can't "run" as well. We'll find out if he can really play QB. It will be hard to say Vick could single-handedly win more games playing for the Texans. The Falcons have a better team, a better o-line and better players overall. Vick can hardly win with the Falcons, what makes you think he'd improve the Texans.

Enough stats and explaination for ya.

Yours Truly,

The Vick Hater.

[Waleo32]

Call me what you want, but yeah, I'll say it. I'm a Vick hater. I hate his style of QBing. I'll agree that he is not made for the WCO. His WR's dropping passes is a piss poor excuse. His yearly stats tell the tale of a below average QB (passing):

Passing
Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yds YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate
2001 Atlanta Falcons 8 2 113 50 44.2 785 6.95 52 2 3 21/113 11 4 62.7
2002 Atlanta Falcons 15 15 421 231 54.9 2936 6.97 74 16 8 33/206 44 8 81.6
2003 Atlanta Falcons 5 4 100 50 50.0 585 5.85 49 4 3 9/64 7 2 69.0
2004 Atlanta Falcons 15 15 321 181 56.4 2313 7.21 62 14 12 46/266 35 8 78.1
2005 Atlanta Falcons 15 15 387 214 55.3 2412 6.23 58 15 13 33/201 27 3 73.1
2006 Atlanta Falcons 16 16 388 204 52.6 2474 6.38 55 20 13 45/303 30 8 75.7
TOTAL 74 67 1730 930 53.8 11505 6.65 74 71 52 187/1153 154 33 75.7

A career 54% passer in today's NFL is TERRIBLE. Only once has he eclipsed 20 TD's and it was ONLY 20. Career best in passing yards is ONLY 2900. QB rating below 80. HE SUCKS as a QB.

Now running is his thing:

Rushing
Year Team G GS Att Yds Avg Lg TD 20+ 1st
2001 Atlanta Falcons 8 2 31 289 9.3 35 1 6 15
2002 Atlanta Falcons 15 15 113 777 6.9 46 8 10 44
2003 Atlanta Falcons 5 4 40 255 6.4 43 1 2 14
2004 Atlanta Falcons 15 15 120 902 7.5 58 3 10 49
2005 Atlanta Falcons 15 15 102 597 5.9 32 6 5 41
2006 Atlanta Falcons 16 16 123 1039 8.4 51 2 11 55
TOTAL 74 67 529 3859 7.3 58 21 44 218

This I ACTUALLY give him credit for. He made one NFC Championship game. Whoopee. Let's party.

Shaub WILL be better for a franchise in the long run IMO. I didn't get that anywhere. Shaub has to show he can be the man, but I don't think a team would give up multiple draft picks and bring the guy in as a starter if the scouts and coaches didn't think he was worth a damn. Why didn't they trade for Vick if he's so much better?

And by the way, Shaub is not "my boy". I just think he has more long term potential. Wait till Vick gets a little older and can't "run" as well. We'll find out if he can really play QB. It will be hard to say Vick could single-handedly win more games playing for the Texans. The Falcons have a better team, a better o-line and better players overall. Vick can hardly win with the Falcons, what makes you think he'd improve the Texans.

Enough stats and explaination for ya.

Yours Truly,

The Vick Hater.

How is it a poor excuse? If your WRs drop passes what happens to your completion percentage? It drops. Like I said, some people hate on Vick because he's a freak and it comes easy to him. It is what it is. Matt Schaub will do nothing. Back ups look good when there isn't pressure on them, for instance "In Gus we Trust", and Rob Johnson to name a few. Vick is a winner. If you want to hate go head. When Mike Vick has a good year this year, how will you hate this time? Matt Schaub is an ok QB nothing special. Hell, he ain't even better than David Carr. How is your man going to perform with no line? I'm enjoying the fact that Matt Schaub is going to Houston. Matter of fact remember this name Waleo because I want you around when Vick turns it on this year. I'm sick of the Vick haters man. A QB is dependant on their WR and you're saying that his WRs dropping passes is a terrible excuse. That really makes a lot of sense!

[Waleo32]

That has to be the worst excuse for an apology I've ever heard.

A good QB doesn't blame his tools. A good QB can do more than just throw long passes. If the guy wants to be a RB, then he should be a RB. If one guy had a hard time catching passes, that would be one thing, but there's no way all his WR's are brain-dead 16 games a season.

Regardless, it'll be hard for this piece of **** to throw to anyone from prison.

It is what it is. I watch ATL games all the time via Direct TV, they are that bad. You all can hate on Vick, but it's the truth. For instance for a while McNabb had the worst WR in football and his stats suffered just like Vick. Eventually they put weapons around him and it's been a wrap. Don't hate on Vick because he can do what many QB's can't. For some of you to hate on him becaus he's a "athletic QB" is ridiculous. People hate on Vick more than they hate on the "Pocket QB" Eli Manning, which is comical to me. But hey it is what it is.

[skinsdude]

How is it a poor excuse? If your WRs drop passes what happens to your completion percentage? It drops. Like I said, some people hate on Vick because he's a freak and it comes easy to him. It is what it is. Matt Schaub will do nothing. Back ups look good when there isn't pressure on them, for instance "In Gus we Trust", and Rob Johnson to name a few. Vick is a winner. If you want to hate go head. When Mike Vick has a good year this year, how will you hate this time? Matt Schaub is an ok QB nothing special. Hell, he ain't even better than David Carr. How is your man going to perform with no line? I'm enjoying the fact that Matt Schaub is going to Houston. Matter of fact remember this name Waleo because I want you around when Vick turns it on this year. I'm sick of the Vick haters man. A QB is dependant on their WR and you're saying that his WRs dropping passes is a terrible excuse. That really makes a lot of sense!

What comes easy to him? Being a freak? Being a good quarterback certainly doesn't come easy to him. Getting into trouble does. It's been well demonstrated by almost every person in multiple threads on this subject the Michael Vick has been a mediocre QB at best. You assessment of Michael Vick's career thus far is very different from 99 percent who have an opinion on the subject. The lengths that you are going to defend Michael Vick is a bit of a mystery unless you're the biggest Michael Vick fan in the world. I don't feel one way or the other about him but I will say I see no reason to be a fan of his. He's a mediocre QB and appears to be an even worse human being.

[dockeryfan]

Any one care to change their stance on nothing happening to Vick?
Not yet. There are a lot of rumors floating around...let's see what actually can be proven.
If nothing else comes out, and everything stays the way it is right now, Vick will skate. Write it down.
I still feel like if there is no concrete evidence that ties Vick to the fighting, he will get a slap on the wrist. If there is video and a conviction, Godell may be forced to suspend him. The next 6 weeks or so will be telling.

[eagleskins]

This is what I call a Mike Vick hater. Vick has no WR's but he's a bad QB? Hmmmm makes a lot of sense. If his WRs caught most of the passes that they dropped it would be a whole different story. Schaub is a better QB in the long run for the franchise? Where did you get that from? The last time I check Vick in a young career has been to the NFC title game and beat GB at home in a playoff game which at the time had never been done. Yet Vick isn't a good QB. That's what I like about haters, they just hate. They don't try to look at the facts. It's amazing! Schaub is playing for the Texans... we will see how many games they win. I guarantee if Vick is on the Texans they would be instant playoff contenders. That's the difference between Vick and your boy Schaub!

This is the excuse made for Vick fans. Fact, Atlanta was ranked in the middle of the NFL in dropped passes. New England has far worse receivers. Don't see Brady having many problems. Vick is straight up terrible.

[Waleo32]

What comes easy to him? Being a freak? Being a good quarterback certainly doesn't come easy to him. Getting into trouble does. It's been well demonstrated by almost every person in multiple threads on this subject the Michael Vick has been a mediocre QB at best. You assessment of Michael Vick's career thus far is very different from 99 percent who have an opinion on the subject. The lengths that you are going to defend Michael Vick is a bit of a mystery unless you're the biggest Michael Vick fan in the world. I don't feel one way or the other about him but I will say I see no reason to be a fan of his. He's a mediocre QB and appears to be an even worse human being.

Vick is a winner like or not. Some of you hate the fact that he can do what he does and become sucessful doing it. It's wild. Multiple pro bowl appearances, NFC title game, playoff wins. I wonder what his winning percentage is. The man is a good football player. The hate is just amazing to me.

[Waleo32]

This is the excuse made for Vick fans. Fact, Atlanta was ranked in the middle of the NFL in dropped passes. New England has far worse receivers. Don't see Brady having many problems. Vick is straight up terrible.


LOL Vick has better WRs than Brady? Hilarious! Are you serious? Brady had Deion Branch for a while Vick had who? First off last year Brady had 5 or six WR who at a time were high racking prospects. Caldwell, Chad Jackson, Gaffney, and two good TE's Graham and Watson. You come out and say Vick had better WRs who Roddy White, and Jenkins. Jenkins is the only one you can say truly. And Lelie played like half the year. Come on now just stop hating.

[ntotoro]

Don't hate on Vick because he can do what many QB's can't. For some of you to hate on him becaus he's a "athletic QB" is ridiculous. People hate on Vick more than they hate on the "Pocket QB" Eli Manning, which is comical to me. But hey it is what it is.

I'm so ****ing sick and tired of the terms "hate" and "hater" being thrown around just because a guys sucks relative to others at his position so he must be "used improperly" or "he's in the wrong system" or some nonsense like that.

Vick sucks just as much as Eli Manning. McNabb still has no weapons about him. I really don't care less how athletic Vick is, it still won't make him a good QB in this league. Vick causes his own additional problems, whether it's flicking off fans or other nonsense. The amount of apologists he has is even greater than LaVar Arrington's.

[eagleskins]

LOL Vick has better WRs than Brady? Hilarious! Are you serious? Brady had Deion Branch for a while Vick had who? First off last year Brady had 5 or six WR who at a time were high racking prospects. Caldwell, Chad Jackson, Gaffney, and two good TE's Graham and Watson. You come out and say Vick had better WRs who Roddy White, and Jenkins. Jenkins is the only one you can say truly. And Lelie played like half the year. Come on now just stop hating.

You might be the biggest DA ever. Vick has two first round draft picks. Deion Branch sucks. Look how he did with Seattle. Brady had two garbage men playing receiver. Vick is the worst QB in the league and isn't even close. Please learn some football and come back. No one here will ever agree with you.

[DWinzit]

Actually Vick had three first round picks to throw to: Lelie, White and Jenkins. He also enjoys one of the top pass catching TE's in Crumpler and has a guy like Dunn for the dump off.


Defenses must always respect Vick's incredible running ability. The also must respect the his powerful gun. Combining Atlanta's arsenal of weapons and Vick's athletic abilities, there should be receivers open on every play.

Every team suffers some dropped passes and is a poor excuse to use in arguing for Vick.

The fact is he does a poor job of seeing and evaluating the field. He often fails to look to a second or third option, instead deciding to run (often with the ball not tucked in). He is a poor on field and apparently off the field decision maker, making him a poor QB. And no I'm not a Vick hater, but I am far from a supporter. :2cents:

[Waleo32]

You might be the biggest DA ever. Vick has two first round draft picks. Deion Branch sucks. Look how he did with Seattle. Brady had two garbage men playing receiver. Vick is the worst QB in the league and isn't even close. Please learn some football and come back. No one here will ever agree with you.

Branch is a beast he just went to a new system. That is a ridiculous statement to call the dude a bumb off a year where he didn't even go into camp with his team. So we already know where you're at. Caldwell was a first rounder and so was Jabar Gaffney Chad Jackson was too. Are you serious son? Come on now you can't see me when it comes to football knowledge. Gaffney and Caldwell were more skilled coming out of college than White and Lelie. Jenkins might be the only one who had true potential, but then again they were just comparing him to David Boston. You are amazing cuz. I'm still on that Deion Branch comment. I'll just chalk that up to you not knowing the situation. A dude who balls when he gets to the Superbowl and caught all the big passes is a bumb? Wow! You're a beast. Like I said Vick is a winner and you can hate all you want but he is. And for people to hate because he isn't their prototype QB can hate. It's funny because people love Schaub but he can't do half the sugar honey ice tea, Vick can do. Besides if you take a survey and ask defenses who they would rather play against Schaub or Vick, I'd guarantee they would say Schaub.

[Waleo32]

Actually Vick had three first round picks to throw to: Lelie, White and Jenkins. He also enjoys one of the top pass catching TE's in Crumpler and has a guy like Dunn for the dump off.


Defenses must always respect Vick's incredible running ability. The also must respect the his powerful gun. Combining Atlanta's arsenal of weapons and Vick's athletic abilities, there should be receivers open on every play.

Every team suffers some dropped passes and is a poor excuse to use in arguing for Vick.

The fact is he does a poor job of seeing and evaluating the field. He often fails to look to a second or third option, instead deciding to run (often with the ball not tucked in). He is a poor on field and apparently off the field decision maker, making him a poor QB. And no I'm not a Vick hater, but I am far from a supporter. :2cents:

That's your opinion but I don't agree. Crumpler is a beast, but if your WRs can't catch its a problem. You can try to spin it all you want. But it's a problem. Hopefully Joe Horn can help him out so some of you can calm down a little about the ability of Mike Vick.

[skinsdude]

It's funny because people love Schaub but he can't do half the sugar honey ice tea, Vick can do.

WTF? What language are you speaking? :doh:

[ntotoro]

It's funny because people love Schaub but he can't do half the sugar honey ice tea, Vick can do.

Then maybe Vick should become a waiter or a bartender.

[pjfootballer]

How is it a poor excuse? If your WRs drop passes what happens to your completion percentage? It drops. Like I said, some people hate on Vick because he's a freak and it comes easy to him. It is what it is. Matt Schaub will do nothing. Back ups look good when there isn't pressure on them, for instance "In Gus we Trust", and Rob Johnson to name a few. Vick is a winner. If you want to hate go head. When Mike Vick has a good year this year, how will you hate this time? Matt Schaub is an ok QB nothing special. Hell, he ain't even better than David Carr. How is your man going to perform with no line? I'm enjoying the fact that Matt Schaub is going to Houston. Matter of fact remember this name Waleo because I want you around when Vick turns it on this year. I'm sick of the Vick haters man. A QB is dependant on their WR and you're saying that his WRs dropping passes is a terrible excuse. That really makes a lot of sense!

You're right. It is what it is. Vick IS a terrible QB. And for the 2nd time, Shaub is not MY BOY. I'm not a texans fan, UVA fan or Shaub fan.

And I've already posted Vick's career stats which you conveniently ignored. They are HORRIBLE as a passer/QB. Great as runner/RB. Did you not see them, or do I have to post them again.

OK, I'll break down my assesment of him.

Good- Great Arm, Great Mobility, Elusiveness

Bad- Poor reader of Defenses, fails to look at his 2nd option, completion percentage not at 55%, never had over 20 TD passes in a season

Vick will be nothing more than a poor man's Cunningham. Like I said, "woohoo" he went to 1 NFC championship game. Big effin deal. And he made the pro bowl because everyone else better than him was injured.

[DWinzit]

That's your opinion but I don't agree. Crumpler is a beast, but if your WRs can't catch its a problem. You can try to spin it all you want. But it's a problem. Hopefully Joe Horn can help him out so some of you can calm down a little about the ability of Mike Vick.Yeah Joe Horn will be able to do what Dunn, Lelie, Roddy White, Jenkins, Peerless Price, Dez White, Justin Griffiths, Shawn Jefferson, etc..couldn't do, catch Vick passes!:laugh: They have all been labeled as having poor hands.

Vick has been labeled coach killer for a reason. Here's to number four Bobby Petrino.:cheers: