Four arrested in Iraq 'honor killing'

[skinsfan51]

__________________________________________________ ____________
BAGHDAD, IRAQ (CNN) -- Authorities in northern Iraq have arrested four people in connection with the "honor killing" last month of a Kurdish teen -- a startling, morbid pummeling caught on a mobile phone video camera and broadcast around the world.

The case portrays the tragedy and brutality of honor killings in the Muslim world. Honor killings take place when family members kill relatives, almost always female, because they feel the relatives' actions have shamed the family.

In this case, Dua Khalil, a 17-year-old Kurdish girl whose religion is Yazidi, was dragged into a crowd in a headlock with police looking on and kicked, beaten and stoned to death last month...

Read the rest here: http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/05/18/iraq.honorkilling/index.html
__________________________________________________ ____________
I did a search on this forum to see if anyone was discussing this HORRIBLE news, but I didn't find anything. So I'll start a thread. This story so troubles me that I can't hardly read about it. Like many of you, I watched the video, but turned it off only moments after it started. It bothered my conscience to watch and I felt like I was part of it by watching. It's not "human" to watch an innocent little girl die in such a hideous way. It's an injustice to humanity and every one of those who threw rocks should feel them on their own heads. It's the only just punishment.

As I sat back tonight considering how such a terrible thing can happen in today's world, one thought came to my mind: Islam. Seventeen year old Dua Khalil was stoned to death for no other reason than being SEEN with a man of a different sect of Islam. I know my conclusion won't be popular out here, and I'm NOT tagging every muslim on earth as a killer, (so please quote me on that before you reply accusing me of saying all muslims are killers), but Islam is a religion of death and bloodshed. Anyone who denies it is blind to reality. It (Islam) is the enemy of a free world and the enemy of humanity. It's about time the world stood up and denounced it for what it is: evil and destructive. History proves it. It's always been "conquer by the sword" and it always will be. Something needs to be done before more Dua Khalils of the world are innocently killed in so-called "honor killings" by their own family. My heart goes out to her family who cared and for those around the world who are also horrified by these events. :(

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Too bad they were Kurds and Kurds aren't Muslims.

[dreamingwolf]

I see what your saying they are yazidi.

[skinsfan51]

Too bad they were Kurds and Kurds aren't Muslims.

Good point, but "The origins of Yazidism are ultimately shrouded in Middle Eastern prehistory. Although the Yazidis speak Kurdish, their religion shows strong influence from archaic Levantine and Islamic religions."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yezidi

So I stand corrected in that she wasn't muslim. But it sure acted like it in this case. As far as I know the dozens of "honor killings" in Iraq, and thousands worldwide, are not restricted to Yazidis. I don't really know, but I'm willing to bet that most of them are related to Islam. Shoot, the Sunni Muslims retaliated and killed about two dozen Yazidi men two weeks later. So Islam isn't exactly innocent here.

My point is proven. Islam is always about revenge and death. I've always believed that peaceful muslims, and they do exist, are not orthodox. I believe the al Qaedas of the world show the true colors of the religion. The Quran seems to back me up on that.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Eh, I was wrong. Still, she wasn't Muslim.


Dua Khalil, a 17-year-old Kurdish girl whose religion is Yazidi


The Yazidi or Yezidi (Kurdish: Êzidîtî or Êzidî) (Arabic,يزيدي or ايزيدي) are adherents of a pre-Islamic Middle Eastern religion with ancient origins.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidism

[AsburySkinsFan]

I hear what you're saying Skinsfan51, I read this story tonight on cnn.com and I still can't get my mind around it, I mean it just seems so First Century A.D., I don't think we'll ever be able to understand the minds of some of the groups in the Middle East. What bothers me (and this may be strange to say) is that someone actually videotaped it with their cell phone............why?! Why would someone videotape the stoneing of a young girl? I just can't fit that part in my brain, because I keep getting the "Does Not Compute" error.

Needless to say I am appalled

[skinsfan51]

I hear what you're saying Skinsfan51, I read this story tonight on cnn.com and I still can't get my mind around it, I mean it just seems so First Century A.D., I don't think we'll ever be able to understand the minds of some of the groups in the Middle East. What bothers me (and this may be strange to say) is that someone actually videotaped it with their cell phone............why?! Why would someone videotape the stoneing of a young girl? I just can't fit that part in my brain, because I keep getting the "Does Not Compute" error.

Needless to say I am appalled

I feel the same way. It's as if in our hyper-information greedy age there is nothing we dare not show or miss. Respect, decency, sensitivity, compassion, etc. have been tossed aside in the defense of "breaking news," and it's caused us as a world to become caustic and unfeeling.

Like I said, I saw only a few moments, but even when I was clicking it something was telling me I shouldn't. I'm like everyone today: I want to know. I want to see some new thing that I've never seen before. I can still see her bloody face in my mind and I can only imagine the fear she felt. It's very, very sad, and I feel a part of it for watching. I feel dirty, and I should. It's my fault for watching. I'll remember this the next time such a graphic news story comes up.

[dreamingwolf]

if I was there and I was affraid to stop it for fear of the crowd killing me too, I would certainly tape it to atleast the give the authorities something to work with.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I feel the same way. It's as if in our hyper-information greedy age there is nothing we dare not show or miss. Respect, decency, sensitivity, compassion, etc. have been tossed aside in the defense of "breaking news," and it's caused us as a world to become caustic and unfeeling.

Like I said, I saw only a few moments, but even when I was clicking it something was telling me I shouldn't. I'm like everyone today: I want to know. I want to see some new thing that I've never seen before. I can still see her bloody face in my mind and I can only imagine the fear she felt. It's very, very sad, and I feel a part of it for watching. I feel dirty, and I should. It's my fault for watching. I'll remember this the next time such a graphic news story comes up.
Yeah I heard about it when it came out and I couldn't bring myself to watch it. I watched one of those beheading videos four or five years ago and it just disturbed me so much. I can't bring myself to watch stuff like that.

As far as Islam being to be blame, maybe, I don't know. You know I went and observed Juma Prayer quite a few times and would stay after and talk to the Imam and I just didn't see where the violence was. It struck me as to how similar the message of the sermon, so to speak, was to one you would hear at a Church. I went to get a better understanding of things but maybe the Islam that is practiced here is watered down. Maybe you're right. Slowly I'm beginning to feel like all religion is ****. I just don't know.

[redman]

This has less to do with religion and more to do with a unmodern, tribal culture in which women are second-class citizens.

I'm a strong believer that women hold the key to modernizing and moderating the middle east.

[Baculus]

Yeah, this is pretty primitive, backwards tribal type stuff. It was horrible to watch that video, and everytime I hear of a family member being involved in a woman's honor killing, I just don't understand it. How can a brother or father kill a sister in this fashion?

It is beyond comprehension.

[Baculus]

if I was there and I was affraid to stop it for fear of the crowd killing me too, I would certainly tape it to atleast the give the authorities something to work with.

In the first part of the footage, it looked like a guy was telling the officers what was happening, but you would have thought that they would call for backup. Or, better yet, have some courage and physically attempt to stop the murder and doing what cops do: risk their lives for the citizens under their protection. But yeah, we don't have the whole story of why the cops didn't do anything to stop it.

[Prosperity]

welcome back sf51

gacolb already pointed out the logical disconnect, not a terrible mistake since the vast majority of Kurds are Sunni.

[Destino]

The first step to ending this crap is to stop treating these animals and their stone age "culture" like they are just as good as everyone else just different. That culture is crap and it should be described as such in every corner of the modern world. We didn't defeat communism by pretending it was just as good but different. We didn't defeat fascists by pretending their views of who had value and who didn't was ok just not like ours. This is no different.

[Prosperity]

The first step to ending this crap is to stop treating these animals and their stone age "culture" like they are just as good as everyone else just different. That culture is crap and it should be described as such in every corner of the modern world. We didn't defeat communism by pretending it was just as good but different. We didn't defeat fascists by pretending their views of who had value and who didn't was ok just not like ours. This is no different.

ok now what?

[Mickalino]

nevermind.

[Destino]

ok now what?

Were you expecting instant results? Sorry to dissapoint. Ideas do have to be challenged if we want them to change. In the US there was no such thing as "rape" within a marriage. Abuse was largely unpunished and unreported. That situation didn't change because groups came out to say "it's ok you're just different!" The change here sparked a change in latin America... it wasn't because Americans rushed to say "hey guys it's cool, you're just different".

It takes time... check back in a decade.

[Prosperity]

Were you expecting instant results? Sorry to dissapoint. Ideas do have to be challenged if we want them to change. In the US there was no such thing as "rape" within a marriage. Abuse was largely unpunished and unreported. That situation didn't change because groups came out to say "it's ok you're just different!" The change here sparked a change in latin America... it wasn't because Americans rushed to say "hey guys it's cool, you're just different".

It takes time... check back in a decade.

ummm you missed the point

you mentioned the first step, what's the second step?

just because we reject those ideas and cultures that embrace them doesn't mean anything happens. What do you do once we (Americans, liberals, Christians, whoever you want) reject the idea? Or I should say what do we do.

[Destino]

ummm you missed the point

you mentioned the first step, what's the second step?

just because we reject those ideas and cultures that embrace them doesn't mean anything happens. What do you do once we (Americans, liberals, Christians, whoever you want) reject the idea? Or I should say what do we do.
You start funding and supporting your side of the argument. Any womens rights groups in the arab world should suddenly find themselves better funded. Not by the US of course... ahem. In fact any group pushing change should feel similar boosts. We have to fight the war of ideas the way they've always been fought... with propaganda and money.

[Prosperity]

Sounds good, I just wanted to see where you were going from there. Its really easy to criticize but it takes quiet a bit of effort to actually change anything. For what its worth I think across the Middle East things are getting better and better as long as the trend is maintained I think the world will be fine. Personally I'd like to increase the number of students from the ME coming here to increase the rate of cultural infusion.

For what its worth I agree that cultural relativism is harmful to this situation. Its ok for a lot of cultural differences... misogyny is not one of them.

[RVAbrendan]

This seems more of a cultural incident than an Islamic incident. Islam peaceful religion, it just so happens many kill in the name of Allah. Many manipulate the Quran to fuel their agenda. This shouldn't be surprising. Christianity anyone?

[redman]

Stunning to say, but I agree with Destino and Liberty here. ;)

IMHO this is the true nature of the seeds we're trying to plant in the Middle East. Not all of our efforts are going to be perfect or even successful, but I think instilling as many modern concepts into that culture as possible will end up being a good thing, although the process won't be (and isn't) pretty. Already there is an unprecedented and growing freedom of the press in the region that over time will have a productive effect there.

[Jumbo]

One more thing: obviously this atrocity and any aspect of the local society that allows/supports it deserves all the slamming it receives...

...but as we go about our customary god-given self-righteousness let us keep in mind how many weak and homeless are brutally murdered for fun in major cities across our country (among many other injustices) with the majority of the good citizens not really giving much of a damn other than paying occasional brief lip-service, since it really doesn't concern them....

...at least we don't stand around and cheer on or participate in the crime, though...

point being, all societies have plenty of ugly to go around. i think it is far too easy sometimes to put the focus on others and scream "accountability" while being forgetful of our own.

[redman]

One more thing: obviously this atrocity and any aspect of the local society that allows/supports it deserves all the slamming it receives...

...but as we go about our customary god-given self-righteousness let us keep in mind how many weak and homeless are brutally murdered for fun in major cities across our country (among many other injustices) with the majority of the good citizens not really giving much of a damn other than paying occasional brief lip-service, since it really doesn't concern them....

...at least we don't stand around and cheer on or participate in the crime, though...

point being, all societies have plenty of ugly to go around. i think it is far too easy sometimes to put the focus on others and scream "accountability" while being forgetful of our own.

You got a link?

I'm not disagreeing that we have plenty that needs fixing in our society, but to even remotely compare events in our country with this heinous street lynching is ridiculous.

[Duncan]

How do you reach out to cultures that condone the killing of their daughters for "disgracing" the family?

[SkinInsite]

You got a link?

I'm not disagreeing that we have plenty that needs fixing in our society, but to even remotely compare events in our country with this heinous street lynching is ridiculous.

Ding ding ding (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/02/19/homeless.attacks/index.html)

[Duncan]

point being, all societies have plenty of ugly to go around. i think it is far too easy sometimes to put the focus on others and scream "accountability" while being forgetful of our own.

Where to begin with this absurd statement?

Maybe the fact that in our culture that is considered obscene and the perpetrators are dealt with accordingly?

[twa]

How do you reach out to cultures that condone the killing of their daughters for "disgracing" the family?


A two by four?

Works for me on wife beaters,never had a call for a encore.

[skinsfan51]

How do you reach out to cultures that condone the killing of their daughters for "disgracing" the family?

With Christianity. That's what made Europe and America great. That's what will make the Middle East stable.

Last night I watched a great documentary called "Beyond the Gates of Splendor." (http://www.beyondthegatesthemovie.com/) It details the martyrdom of five missionaries in the 1950s by the Waodani tribe in the Amazon basin of Ecuador. It's narrated by one of the missionary’s sons.

The Waodani were a violent and isolated tribe. My wife and I were shocked to hear that over a period of five decades it had been recorded that six out of every 10 deaths were by spear. Killing was a way of life and women and children were not exempt. There was no regard for human life.

During the story there are frequent interviews with a husband and wife team of anthropologists who were experts in remote tribal cultures. I do not believe they were Christians based on their comments, but they were totally stunned to find that from the time the five missionaries died, to the few years after that when Christianity was introduced and accepted by the tribe, 90% of the killings stopped. The anthropologists were very careful to point out that their culture and manner of living had not changed. Only their THINKING and what they were taught with regards to God, Jesus Christ and the Bible made the change. Only Christianity can make such a drastic, positive change in such a short period of time.

If it can work in a remote Amazon jungle for tribes that have been born killers for decades, it can work in the Middle East.

[tizzod]

With Christianity. That's what made Europe and America great. That's what will make the Middle East stable.



With all due respect...., :doh:

[skinsfan51]

With all due respect...., :doh:

THAT'S the best you can offer? LOL. My turn... :doh: (Oh, and I'm sure you have a better solution? Please...post it. :) )