I stand corrected- Romo vs Campbell comparison

[bubba9497]

I have been maintaining that in an equal period of time, against common oppenents, that Romo hadn't outplayed Campbell by much and in some areas Campbell actually played better

of course experts like J_J and other poke fans kept telling me I was being unfair, and biased and you have to go by the whole season

so I have compared the other games and teams between the two QB's

and they are right Romo completely played better and had better numbers

Houston:

Romo: 2-2 100% 1 TD 159.3 QBR

Campbell: Did not Play

Arizona:

Romo: 20-29 69.0% 2 TD 126.8 QBR

Campbell: Did not Play

Indy:

Romo: 19-23 82.6% 1 INT 89.5 QBR

Campbell: Did not Play

Detroit:

Romo: 23-32 71.9% 2 TD 1 INT 111.6 QBR

Campbell: Did not Play

Washington:

Romo: 24-36 66.7% 2 TD 109.0 QBR

Campbell: Did not Play



WOW, how could I have been so blind... the numbers don't lie

[DWinzit]

You're really slipping bubba!:( :laugh:

[bubba9497]

You're really slipping bubba!:( :laugh:

and the scary part, even though Romo slipped his last six games... he even out played McNabb during that period!!

amazing!!!!


Wow Romo is the real f'n deal!!

[ArmchairRedskin]

I lol'd :laugh:

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

Wow, I now see the light.

Thanks Bubba! :laugh:

[dfos81]

Gotta admit those Dallas fans know who the future is(Romo) and they also know that coaching changes have only made them better this decade :rolleyes:

[zoony]

Brunell outperformed Romo in weeks 1 and 2, and we all know how bad Brunell is!

hahaha Romo sucks...



.....

[bubba9497]

Brunell outperformed Romo in weeks 1 and 2, and we all know how bad Brunell is!

hahaha Romo sucks...



.....


:nono: Romo outplayed Brunell the last 7

[HEavyJumbo85]

i just don't see how you could have missed something like this, the facts were right in front of you the whole time...I am certainly embarrased for you ;)

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[DWinzit]

Bubba, before you posted this there were four Dallas fans battling in other threads. What the hell happened to them?:whoknows:

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

The funny thing is that I was actually looking for the point in there :laugh:

[bubba9497]

Bubba, before you posted this there were four Dallas fans battling in other threads. What the hell happened to them?:whoknows:


nothing more to add


they left satisfied knowing I admitted the truth

[DWinzit]

nothing more to add


the left satisfied knowing I admitted the truth:shhh: :secret: One of them is back, but he is ignoring the thread!

[bubba9497]

i just don't see how you could have missed something like this, the facts were right in front of you the whole time...I am certainly embarrased for you



:doh: I know, I know


I'm just a homer :(

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

:doh: I know, I know


I'm just a homer :(

The first step to recovery is admiting it :laugh:

[Califan007]

Damn, that's gonna put a dent in your reputation now...you let us down, bubba...lol :laugh:

[M&W]

Jason Campbell's completion % was lower than EVERY SINGLE STARTING QB IN THE NFL SAVE VINCE YOUNG

53.1% is bad for a high school junior, let alone a starting QB in the NFL. His QB rating of 76.5 isnt anything to brag about, either.

Romo, on the other hand, completed 65.3% of his passes (led the NFL) and had a QB rating of 95.1 (Higher than Tom Brady). This coming against statistically better competition as well as the fact that Romo had an inferior O-Line and running game.

There is no comparison. Campbell played like a guy who had never played in the NFL before, Romo played like a seasoned QB in 8 out of 10 games. Like I've said before, anyone who watches a decent amount of SEC football can tell you Campbell was drafted at least a round too high and is almost a clone of Quincy Carter.

[DWinzit]

Campbell played like a guy who had never played in the NFL before, :rolleyes:

[M&W]

:rolleyes:

53.1%

[ArmchairRedskin]

53.1%




Timing offense. Even Peyton Manning only completed 56% of his passes his first go 'round.


Besides, can't deride a guy too much that threw at least one TD in every start.

[bubba9497]

You are SOOOO right, until I saw the light I would have esily set you straight ;like


Jason Campbell's completion % was lower than EVERY SINGLE STARTING QB IN THE NFL SAVE VINCE YOUNG

53.1% is bad for a high school junior, let alone a starting QB in the NFL. His QB rating of 76.5 isn't anything to brag about, either.


that Campbell, like Young saw his first NFL Action, and was new to the system... also didn't even play a half a season

and in the history of the NFL, HOF QBs like Elway, Montana, Bradshaw, Staubach, Jugenson, Fouts, Troy Aikman, and future HOF like McNabb all had worse numbers their first year action (less than a full season) than Campbell

there were more but no need to look them up now


Romo, on the other hand, completed 65.3% of his passes (led the NFL) and had a QB rating of 95.1 (Higher than Tom Brady). This coming against statistically better competition as well as the fact that Romo had an inferior O-Line and running game.

yeah but when you compared Romo's Dec, and Campbell Dec... 5 games 4 against common opponents

there numbers were almost equal, and Campbell had better numbers in three of 4 common opponents


Campbell had a better Int%, better int to TD ratio, fewer fumbles and sacks, for the season not just December

or that Romo's Nov. he had a QBR of 124, but in Dec. after defenses had a chance to get info and film on him... his QBR dropped to 77.

or that he had one big game (Tampa) where he had 5 TD and No ints... the other games he went 14 tds, and 13 Ints, and in his other 9 starts only he went 11TDs, 10 int

and their last 4 games of the regular season they both had a QBR of 80



There is no comparison. Campbell played like a guy who had never played in the NFL before, Romo played like a seasoned QB in 8 out of 10 games.


Campbell hadn't played in the NFL before

Romo, played the equivalent of two full games in preseason, more att. than any other QB in preseason, and as many snaps as Bledsoe with the first team in practice, also played in two games before his first start... and has been in the same system for 4 years


Like I've said before, anyone who watches a decent amount of SEC football can tell you Campbell was drafted at least a round too high and is almost a clone of Quincy Carter.


I would have pointed out that is total bull ****, that despite having 4 different OC all 4 years, Campbell had a 4 year average of 64% completeion rate, 4th best in SEC history, and the SEC is considered the toughest conference in all college football, and Campbell led Auburn to an undefeated season, and was SEC MVP, and Offensive player of the year

but after seeing the light of those other games... it's easy to see why Romo is so much better

[DWinzit]

Bubba, they are just trying to wear you down.


Eventually they figure you won't post all these stats that you must have memorized by now!

[Califan007]

Jason Campbell's completion % was lower than EVERY SINGLE STARTING QB IN THE NFL SAVE VINCE YOUNG

53.1% is bad for a high school junior, let alone a starting QB in the NFL.
Yep, Campbell and Vince Young are doomed to be failures.

By the way...
Cutler - 59.1%
Smith - 58.1%
Leinart - 56.8%
Campbell - 53.1%
Young - 51.5%

Notice how all of the QBs drafted over the past two years who ended up playing during their first two years had similar completion percentages. Smith during his first year had a 50.9% completion rate. Wild how it seems if you're good enough to start during your first year or two, having a completion percentage in the mid-50% range isn't unusual, nor is it a sign of anything bad.

One more note:

Campbell:
TD% - 4.83
INT% - 2.89

Romo:
TD% - 5.63
INT% - 3.85

Both have good TD%, but Romo's INT% is horrible. To paraphrase you, a 3.85 INT percentage is bad for a high school junior, nonetheless a starting QB in the NFL. In fact, Romo's INT% was higher than ALL of the QBs I just listed above (Cutler, Smith, Leinart, Campbell, Young)--all of which have at LEAST two years LESS time in the NFL than Romo.

I guess Romo's high completion percentage is just as high when throwing to the opposing team's corner backs...lol



Romo played like a seasoned QB in 8 out of 10 games.
Which two of these games qualifies as 2 of the 8 in which he "played like a seasoned QB"?

58.8% completion percentage
0 TDs
2 INTs

48.5% completion percentage
1 TD
2 INTs

48.3% completion percentage
1 TD
2 INTs

56% completion percentage
2 TDs
3 INTs




I'm not gonna even dignify the Quincy Carter comparison with a response.

[M&W]

Andre Ware's college career put Campbell's to shame. So did Danny Wuerffel's. And Ty Detmer's. And Gino Torretta's. And Jason White's. And Charlie Ward's, and he didnt even play in the NFL.

I could go on, but me thinks the point has been made. None of those guys were equiped to be great NFL QBs, and neither is Campbell. He had the best defense in America, the two best backs in America, and the best O-Line in America on his side. Him winning SEC POY over Brown or Cadillac was a joke, and even Auburn fans thought so.

And the whole common opponents argument is just a fancy way of telling us you don't have any concrete stats to back you up, so you'll take whatever you can get. I can take 4 games from any QBs season and prove he is better than any other QB.

[Califan007]

Andre Ware's college career put Campbell's to shame. So did Danny Wuerffel's. And Ty Detmer's. And Gino Torretta's. And Jason White's. And Charlie Ward's, and he didnt even play in the NFL.

I could go on, but me thinks the point has been made. None of those guys were equiped to be great NFL QBs, and neither is Campbell. He had the best defense in America, the two best backs in America, and the best O-Line in America on his side. Him winning SEC POY over Brown or Cadillac was a joke, and even Auburn fans thought so.

And the whole common opponents argument is just a fancy way of telling us you don't have any concrete stats to back you up, so you'll take whatever you can get. I can take 4 games from any QBs season and prove he is better than any other QB.
Me thinks you posted your argument too soon lol.... :cool:

[ArmchairRedskin]

It's funny watching M&M trying to discredit JC.

Carry on.

[M&W]

It's funny watching M&M trying to discredit JC.

Carry on.

Only topped by your inability to discredit my discrediting of Campbell ;)

[ArmchairRedskin]

Only topped by your inability to discredit my discrediting of Campbell ;)



Have I even attempted?

Inability..lol....more like I'm too lazy to get into it. It's almost bedtime for my old ass.

[Califan007]

Have I even attempted?

Inability..lol....more like I'm too lazy to get into it. It's almost bedtime for my old ass.
Bubba and I have done the work for you, so don't worry lol... :thumbsup:

[M&W]

Have I even attempted?

That's the point, you old fart :D

[Area51]

Andre Ware's college career put Campbell's to shame. So did Danny Wuerffel's. And Ty Detmer's. And Gino Torretta's. And Jason White's. And Charlie Ward's, and he didnt even play in the NFL.

I could go on, but me thinks the point has been made. None of those guys were equiped to be great NFL QBs, and neither is Campbell. He had the best defense in America, the two best backs in America, and the best O-Line in America on his side. Him winning SEC POY over Brown or Cadillac was a joke, and even Auburn fans thought so.

And the whole common opponents argument is just a fancy way of telling us you don't have any concrete stats to back you up, so you'll take whatever you can get. I can take 4 games from any QBs season and prove he is better than any other QB.

And Tony Romo had a great college career...in Division III football. If you've seen Campbell play, you would see he is more than 'equipped' to play QB in the NFL. Unlike Romo, he is not too short for the position nor does he have a noodle arm. But I guess you'd rather learn the hard way.

[IONTOP]

53.1%

Romo 95!!! :excited:

[bubba9497]

Andre Ware's college career put Campbell's to shame. So did Danny Wuerffel's. And Ty Detmer's. And Gino Torretta's. And Jason White's. And Charlie Ward's, and he didnt even play in the NFL.

they also had better careers in college than Romo... your point?

but I'll humor you

Detmer played at BYU, yeah the WAC is a hotbed of tough competion, Torretta :laugh:

Wuerful played in Spurrier's system, Ware in the run and shoot:thumbsup: good comparison

Guesss what, there was a point you seem to forget

Campbell had an overall better college career than Romo, McNabb, Pennington, Brady, Grossman, Eli Manning, Smith, Hasselbeck, Harrington, Vick, ....etc... in fact outside of Peyton Manning, and Matt Lienart.. I doubt many other starting QBs had an overall better college career.

:secret: Since we are talking about the NFL, so far Campbell has squashed all those you listed above.




I could go on, but me thinks the point has been made.


I could go on, but I think the point has been made :laugh:



None of those guys were equiped to be great NFL QBs, and neither is Campbell. He had the best defense in America, the two best backs in America, and the best O-Line in America on his side. Him winning SEC POY over Brown or Cadillac was a joke, and even Auburn fans thought so.

He didn't even had the best OL or defense in the SEC :laugh: Tennessee did... trust me I know, I am a huge Vol fan, and he torched us

and the Auburn fans I know say he did... :nana:

dude you are grabing at straws here and looking like a complete boob

NFL coaches determine a players abilities by several things... none is how well his "team" played in college... if they did All the guys you listed would have been first rounders, not just Ware :laugh:

His Arm Strength, intelligence, size, leadership abilities had him in the first round

Draft Guru's like Kiper had him a first round pick, and Chris Mortensen feels he had the best potential of all the QB's drafted in his class

And the whole common opponents argument is just a fancy way of telling us you don't have any concrete stats to back you up, so you'll take whatever you can get. I can take 4 games from any QBs season and prove he is better than any other QB.

yeah, scientist don't compare things in controlled equal environment.... that is just crazy... when Car an Driver compare cars... they test the Ford on a mountain course, and Chevy on the interstate to get comparial stats :thumbsup:


You know what, you can also take and ten starts from every starting QB, and have many have much better numbers than Romo


beside I am on you side, look Romo swamped Campbell in the games above, heck Campbell acted like he never stepped on the field... against Detroit hell the Redskins as well as JC seemed like they never showed up

[M&W]

And Tony Romo had a great college career...in Division III football. If you've seen Campbell play, you would see he is more than 'equipped' to play QB in the NFL. Unlike Romo, he is not too short for the position nor does he have a noodle arm. But I guess you'd rather learn the hard way.

Romo is 6'2", the same height as Brett Favre, and he can throw the ball further than Troy Aikman could. What are you babbling about?

[bubba9497]

my discrediting of Campbell ;)


you have???


where did you post it? I'd like to see it

this comedy stuff you posted is entertaining, but hardly worth taking seriously

[bubba9497]

Romo is 6'2", the same height as Brett Favre, and he can throw the ball further than Troy Aikman could. What are you babbling about?

and throw as many Int as Farve, and have more fumbles as well

[M&W]

and throw as many Int as Farve, and have more fumbles as well

Can he also win 3 MVPs, 2 NFC titles, and a Superbowl?

[Area51]

Romo is 6'2", the same height as Brett Favre, and he can throw the ball further than Troy Aikman could. What are you babbling about?

Romo may be listed at 6'2" he doesnt look any taller than 6'. And please dont try to say Romo has a stronger arm than Aikman. That's just really sad if you believe that. :doh:

[bubba9497]

Can he also win 3 MVPs, 2 NFC titles, and a Superbowl?

Romo?



:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

lets see if he can get through a 16 game season first

[Jeremiah_Johnson]

His Arm Strength, intelligence, size, leadership abilities had him in the first round

Draft Guru's like Kiper had him a first round pick, and Chris Mortensen feels he had the best potential of all the QB's drafted in his class





Kiper said JC would have been available a "round or two" later. I remember it like it was yesterday cause I was laughing so hard when he said it."


I don't remember what Mortensen said, I'll be honest.


All MW is trying to say is JC had a subpar year. Sure it was his first year so most anyone will give him a break, not everyone can play as well as Romo did right out of the gate, the only other person I can think of was Marino.

The problem with JC isn't mechanics (although he has an incredibly slow release), the problem is his accuracy. He just isn't very accurate as his completion percentage tells you. And it wasn't like he was throwing the ball deep often either as you can tell by his Yards per attempt average. (unlike Romo's who actually led the NFL).

I just don't know if a qb in entering his 3rd year in the league all of a sudden can "get accurate". The only one that comes to mind is Drew Brees who stunk his first few seasons and has went on to become stellar. However, as SD's Oline improved, so did Brees' accuracy. But the Skins already have a good Oline, they did last year anyway, so you have to wonder why JC didn't do better than he did.

You can talk about college stats all you want, Ryan Leaf had some pretty good ones too, it don't mean squat. Fact is that Auburn team had a great D and probably the best rushing attack in college football since the days of Erick Dickerson and Craig James. The qb was just along for the ride thats all.

The good news is this will all be settled early in this upcoming season.

[bubba9497]

Kiper said JC would have been available a "round or two" later. I remember it like it was yesterday cause I was laughing so hard when he said it."


I don't remember what Mortensen said, I'll be honest.


wrong late first round


All MW is trying to say is JC had a subpar year. Sure it was his first year so most anyone will give him a break, not everyone can play as well as Romo did right out of the gate, the only other person I can think of was Marino.


99% of what M&W said was pure bull ****, and quite comical, none of which factual

No one played as well as Romo did right out of the gate?... well there was Scott Mitchell, Jay Schreoder, Gary Hogeboom...etc...

and of course Romo's didn't end the way he started (I don't know why Poke Fans fail to see that???)



The problem with JC isn't mechanics (although he has an incredibly slow release), the problem is his accuracy. He just isn't very accurate as his completion percentage tells you. And it wasn't like he was throwing the ball deep often either as you can tell by his Yards per attempt average. (unlike Romo's who actually led the NFL).

J_J we went over all this before, and I debunked every bit of it

Campbell doesn't have an accuracy problem, his 64% 4 year completion percentage was 4th best in the SEC EVER, and you are totally ignoring that Gibbs QB's are trained to throw the ball away instead of forcing bad throws, or taking a sack... and Campbell had several drops... which average out during a full season... but has a huge swing effect in only seven games

and once again you are using the wrong stat to determine his length of throws, if a pass is not caught it doesn't matter if was thrown five yards or 50 yards... plus the more misses you have the lower your YPA... since Campbell did have a lower completion % ... hello he would have a lower YPA especially (again) in so few a games to rate. The stat you use to determine avg throws is YPC Yards per Completion.. which Romo was just a little bit ahead of Campbell Both well over 11 YPC


and of course we all know you are talking out your ass, and have no idea what passes Campbell threw, and both Saunders and Gibbs have said that Campbell threw the ball deeper than game planned for Brunell... because Brunell had a torn labium injury limiting his deep ball




I just don't know if a qb in entering his 3rd year in the league all of a sudden can "get accurate". The only one that comes to mind is Drew Brees who stunk his first few seasons and has went on to become stellar. However, as SD's Oline improved, so did Brees' accuracy. But the Skins already have a good Oline, they did last year anyway, so you have to wonder why JC didn't do better than he did



again more bull ****,

Brees numbers improved due to his experience, and better players around him

2002 526 320 60.8 3284 6.24 17 16 24/180 76.9
2003 356 205 57.6 2108 5.92 11 15 21/178 67.5
2004 400 262 65.5 3159 7.90 27 7 18/131 104.8
2005 500 323 64.6 3576 7.15 24 15 27/223 89.2
2006 554 356 64.3 4418 7.97 26 11 18/105 96.2

03 his accuracy, and YPA both went down despite fewer sacks

04-05-06 his accuracy % stayed almost identical despite a huge jump in sacks in 05

and he had LT the whole time as a constant

again, you're just making things up not based on anything tangible


Also not only is accuracy not a problem for JC, but it has been shown time and time again, many HOF, and Great QB's had worse starts than Campbell and went on to have pretty good careers... so you assumption is completely false... and you know it

A good OL is great for a run game and helps to give more time to throw the ball....and one of the reasons Billy went to Romo was his mobility to avoid the rush.. was it not??????

Now, more importantly you have to have the receivers to CATCH THE BALL, and we have went over this 100 times as well... just because you refuse to admit it doesn't change the fact, Moss missed a game, and was injured limiting him during Campbell's starts, and Lloyd missed two games of seven... where Romo (according to you) had the best WR duo in the NFC, 2 thousand yard WR, and the Pro Bowl TE in Witten, and Crayton is better than any WR the Skins had (again according to you)...

and despite those advantages (and a better ranked defense .. another point you have said before was important to a QB production) shorter fields to work on because of more turnovers by the defense, and better special teams...

during the same stretch of games, against equal competition... the last 4 games of the season... no matter how you want to spin it... Romo's numbers weren't that better,.. some exactly the same, some Campbell was better

with all the advantages Romo had.. and is supposed to be SO MUCH BETTER, according to you... he couldn't outdistance Campbell :whoknows:



You can talk about college stats all you want, Ryan Leaf had some pretty good ones too, it don't mean squat. Fact is that Auburn team had a great D and probably the best rushing attack in college football since the days of Erick Dickerson and Craig James. The qb was just along for the ride thats all.

The good news is this will all be settled early in this upcoming season.


Yeah Auburn ran the wishbone... oh wait, no they didn't.. and Campbell lead the SEC in several categories as well as a top 3 QB in several categories in the NCAA div. 1

i realize you have to fabricate facts, and distort reality... because you don't have anything concrete to base your arguments on... and Poke fan Mantra... dictates you ignore anything that doesn't make the pokes look the best

but it is getting very tiresome, and old to rehash the same old stuff... you keep posting the same false opinions, wrong stats, half assed assumptions, all that are easily shot down

you don't want to believe the truth, fine... you don't want to admit anything fine... but stop this constant posting garbage. You can post it 100 times, it will never change one thing, and has no barring on next season

come up with something new, factual... and tangible... or save me and everyone else the time

[Califan007]

Romo played like a seasoned QB in 8 out of 10 games.
I still want this answered...

Here are four of Romo's 10 games. Since you said he "played like a seasoned QB" in 8 of those 10 games, which two games listed below qualify as "playing like a seasoned QB"?

58.8% completion percentage
0 TDs
2 INTs

48.5% completion percentage
1 TD
2 INTs

48.3% completion percentage
1 TD
2 INTs

56% completion percentage
2 TDs
3 INTs

[bubba9497]

I still want this answered...




Romo 95 Rating :excited:

[Califan007]

I just don't know if a qb in entering his 3rd year in the league all of a sudden can "get accurate".
Here's a few examples of a QB suddenly "getting accurate":

Steve McNair:
1st year: 51.3%
2nd year: 61.5%
3rd year: 52.0%
4th year: 58.7%
5th year: 56.5%
6th year: 62.6%

Has not dropped below 60% completion rate since.


Jake Delhomme:
1st year: 59.2%
2nd year: 58.2%
3rd year: 60.2%
4th year: 61.0%

David Carr:
1st year: 52.5% (77 sacks)
2nd year: 56.6% (15 sacks in the equivalent of 10 games)
3rd year: 61.2% (49 sacks)
4th year: 60.5% (68 sacks)
5th year: 68.3% (41 sacks)

I don't see the number of sacks playing a role here.


Matt Hasselbeck:
1st year starting: 52.6%
2nd year starting: 63.7%
3rd year starting: 61.0%

Brian Greise:
1st year starting: 57.7%
2nd year starting: 64.3%
3rd year starting: 61.0%
4th year starting: 68.0%

So obviously, as you can see, a QB "suddenly getting accurate" isn't as rare as you want to believe. Mere experience, causing the game to slow down, and a full offseason practicing with the starters can easily cause an improvement in a young QB's accuracy.


And for the record, here's an example of a QB never "getting accurate":

Donovan McNabb:
1st year: 49.1%
2nd year: 58.0%
3rd year: 57.8%
4th year: 58.4%
5th year: 57.5%
6th year: 64.0%
7th year: 57.9%

[bubba9497]

Here's a few examples of a QB suddenly "getting accurate":

So obviously, as you can see, a QB "suddenly getting accurate" isn't as rare as you want to believe. Mere experience, causing the game to slow down, and a full offseason practicing with the starters can easily cause an improvement in a young QB's accuracy.



Now Cali007, you know you are just cherry picking stats, and The OL is more important to a QB when it comes to pass catching and accuracy

WR and TE's are just a hindrance :laugh:


and stop using facts and logic like stats... everyone knows that J_J's opinion is much more believable... because a poke fans word is law :rotflmao:

[bubba9497]

For your information

in 2004 Campbell was overall in the NCAA Division 1 (119 schools)

#3 in QB Rating, (1st in the SEC )
#4 in comp.% 69.6% (1st in the SEC )
#2 in YPA 10.0 (1st in the SEC )


188/270 2700 yards 20 TD passes 7 Int.


You can talk about college stats all you want, Ryan Leaf had some pretty good ones too, it don't mean squat. Fact is that Auburn team had a great D and probably the best rushing attack in college football since the days of Erick Dickerson and Craig James. The qb was just along for the ride thats all.

2004 Auburn was

29th in rushing yards, 5th in the SEC

36th in sacks allowed 3rd in the SEC


Auburn had the 9th toughest strength of schedule

[tr1]

Romo is 6'2", the same height as Brett Favre, and he can throw the ball further than Troy Aikman could. What are you babbling about?

I think bubba has already admitted that Romo is better than Aikman.

Give the guy some credit.

[tr1]

Once again, bubba destroys puke fans with facts.

The cheese eaters get acid stomach when bubba burns the cheese.

There's a reason BP left the pukes...Romo.

[Califan007]

Now Cali007, you know you are just cherry picking stats, and The OL is more important to a QB when it comes to pass catching and accuracy

WR and TE's are just a hindrance :laugh:


and stop using facts and logic like stats... everyone knows that J_J's opinion is much more believable... because a poke fans word is law :rotflmao:
I don't know what I was thinking lol... :)

[flashback]

Unless I'm confused the common opponents that Romo and Campbell played against were NYG, PHI, NO, TB, ATL, and CAR. Romo actually played a game and a half against NYG. So you've got 6 games for Campbell and 6.5 games for Romo. If you add up the stats from Romo's 6.5 games, you get

ATT - 215
CMP - 132
YDS - 1729
TD - 12
INT - 9

This gives Romo a completion % of 61.4, and a yards/attempt of 8.04, and 266 yards/game. The QB rating is 87.9. Bubba, just say the word and I'll redo these numbers without that 2nd half vs. the Giants in November.

For Campbell, you get

ATT - 181
CMP - 97
YDS - 1137
TD - 9
INT - 6

Campbell's completion percentage is 53.6, and his yards/attempt is 6.28. The QB rating is 75.7. His yards/game is 189.5.

Both QBs beat the Panthers. Campbell had a win vs. NO, who blew Romo and the 'Boys out. Romo beat the Giants and the Falcons, both of whom beat the 'Skins. Neither QB beat Philadelphia.

Now, I suppose it's not fair if I don't include Romo's fumbles, and Campbell's rushing stats. Romo had one fumble against the Giants, and 2 against the Falcons. None of the 3 fumbles resulted in a turnover. Campbell had one fumble vs. NO that he recovered himself.

Campbell rushed 23 times for 100 yards in the games we're talking about. However, since they include kneel downs as rushes, I feel that stat is skewed. So if we take out the kneel downs, he rushed 18 times for 106 yards, a 5.9 yard average. That also adds 17.7 yards to his per game production, which puts him over 200 yards per game. Romo rushed 19 times for 75 yards, again in 6.5 games. If we adjust for kneel downs, we get 16 rushes for 79 yards, which comes to a 4.9 average, and 12.2 yards/game.

I'll leave to you guys to crunch these numbers however you want. Bubba, if you're confident that this is an indication that "there (sic) numbers were almost equal", I won't try to talk you out of it.

If you want my personal opinion, Jason Campbell scares the hell out of me. I think he was a great draft pick, and I think he's going to be a very good QB. But I'm very confident the Redskins will find some way to screw this up. :D

[sableholic]

Once again, bubba destroys puke fans with facts.

The cheese eaters get acid stomach when bubba burns the cheese.

There's a reason BP left the pukes...Romo.

The puke fans keep coming and keep getting shot right down by Bubba.

[jrockster21]

Pure ownage by bubba. Good on ya!! :cheers:

I haven't seen ownage this bad since, well, my last post! :D

Romo is 6'2", the same height as Brett Favre

Oh, well that settles it! Romo will be as good as Brett because they're the same height! :laugh: :doh:

Kiper said JC would have been available a "round or two" later. I remember it like it was yesterday cause I was laughing so hard when he said it."

The draft is upon us and it's time for my final first-round projection, which has Utah quarterback Alex Smith going No. 1 overall to the San Francisco 49ers. Michigan wide receiver Braylon Edwards has moved into the top three and Auburn cornerback Carlos Rogers into the top 10, while USC receiver Mike Williams slides out of the top 10. Auburn quarterback Jason Campbell makes his first-round debut while Iowa defensive end Matt Roth falls out.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft05/columns/story?columnist=kiper_jr_mel&id=2042932&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl %2fdraft05%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dkiper_j r_mel%26id%3d2042932

We'll expect a written apology for lying as soon as you get the time. Thanks in advance. ;)

[TonyRomoProBowl]

Unless I'm confused the common opponents that Romo and Campbell played against were NYG, PHI, NO, TB, ATL, and CAR. Romo actually played a game and a half against NYG. So you've got 6 games for Campbell and 6.5 games for Romo. If you add up the stats from Romo's 6.5 games, you get

ATT - 215
CMP - 132
YDS - 1729
TD - 12
INT - 9

This gives Romo a completion % of 61.4, and a yards/attempt of 8.04, and 266 yards/game. The QB rating is 87.9. Bubba, just say the word and I'll redo these numbers without that 2nd half vs. the Giants in November.

For Campbell, you get

ATT - 181
CMP - 97
YDS - 1137
TD - 9
INT - 6

Campbell's completion percentage is 53.6, and his yards/attempt is 6.28. The QB rating is 75.7. His yards/game is 189.5.

Both QBs beat the Panthers. Campbell had a win vs. NO, who blew Romo and the 'Boys out. Romo beat the Giants and the Falcons, both of whom beat the 'Skins. Neither QB beat Philadelphia.

Now, I suppose it's not fair if I don't include Romo's fumbles, and Campbell's rushing stats. Romo had one fumble against the Giants, and 2 against the Falcons. None of the 3 fumbles resulted in a turnover. Campbell had one fumble vs. NO that he recovered himself.

Campbell rushed 23 times for 100 yards in the games we're talking about. However, since they include kneel downs as rushes, I feel that stat is skewed. So if we take out the kneel downs, he rushed 18 times for 106 yards, a 5.9 yard average. That also adds 17.7 yards to his per game production, which puts him over 200 yards per game. Romo rushed 19 times for 75 yards, again in 6.5 games. If we adjust for kneel downs, we get 16 rushes for 79 yards, which comes to a 4.9 average, and 12.2 yards/game.

I'll leave to you guys to crunch these numbers however you want. Bubba, if you're confident that this is an indication that "there (sic) numbers were almost equal", I won't try to talk you out of it.

If you want my personal opinion, Jason Campbell scares the hell out of me. I think he was a great draft pick, and I think he's going to be a very good QB. But I'm very confident the Redskins will find some way to screw this up. :D


:applause: Great post.

I too think that Campbell can succeed. i have seen some things in him...no doubt.

But you have to understand, I went down this argument with Bubba already. He will dismiss it completly. He is only interested in comparring common opponents in December. Not common opponents across the board...but you post was very well thought out and was in my opinion a very goon unbiased post.

Again :applause: for your efforts here...but beware, it will not pass the Bubba test....

[bobzmuda]

Both Romo and Campbell showed a lot of promise last year. Romo had a bit more production as far as I'm concerned, but Campbell has a much higher upside.

Despite all the lol Romo business, I think he's going to be pretty darn good for the Cowboys.

Also, it's funny to see bubba defending Campbell when he thought he was nothing more than a third-rounder as the 2004 college season was wrapping up.

[Tom [Giants fan]]

Maybe Campbell didn't play because he was scared he wouldn't measure up to Romo? :D

[sableholic]

:applause: Great post.

EDIT: Heres each players stats for the 6 common games. Flashback I didnt realize that you included .5 of a game cause I was skimming, so I apologize for that.

http://redskinsnation.net/RomoCampbell.htm

Note: I just copied from the NFL Players Page for both players to Excel and used the formulas. If anybody wants the actual spreadsheet just say the word.

Edit:

For the Puke fans out there, that link has both players stats for the 6 games I just also included Romo's without the Tampa Bay game. That doesn't mean I only have the stats for Romo without the TB game, just means that its also there. I know thats complicated and all, but there ya go.

[TonyRomoProBowl]

Nothing against Flashback, but his numbers are off. And yes I know its unfair to take out the best game Romo had, but its there just if anybody was interested.

http://redskinsnation.net/RomoCampbell.htm

Note: I just copied from the NFL Players Page for both players to Excel and used the formulas. If anybody wants the actual spreadsheet just say the word.


why would anyone be interested in seeing that when it takes out the Tampa Game....that makes no sense to me at all. put the Tampa game in and redo it.

[sableholic]

why would anyone be interested in seeing that when it takes out the Tampa Game....that makes no sense to me at all. put the Tampa game in and redo it.

Did you even click the link? Apparently not, as it has both with the Tampa Bay Game and without...

[TonyRomoProBowl]

Did you even click the link? Apparently not, as it has both with the Tampa Bay Game and without...

my bad, i did not, but now i did.....and i still dont understand why you have it both ways? Why even include the stat comparrision "without" the Tampa game for Romo?

[sableholic]

my bad, i did not, but now i did.....and i still dont understand why you have it both ways? Why even include the stat comparrision "without" the Tampa game for Romo?

Someone mentioned it earlier, it was just for completeness. Just a single place to look for all those stats that people keep mentioning. I myself find it unfair as well, its like the people who used to argue that you should take out a RB's longest run. However, I do think that Bubba was correct in that JC wasn't outplayed by Romo by that much.

[ouvan59]

Kiper said JC would have been available a "round or two" later. I remember it like it was yesterday cause I was laughing so hard when he said it."

LOL, is that why he had him going to Green Bay at #24 in his last mock draft that year? You know, the pick right before the Skins picked? Just keep making crap up.


http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft05/columns/story?columnist=kiper_jr_mel&id=2042932

[jrockster21]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft05/columns/story?columnist=kiper_jr_mel&id=2042932&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl %2fdraft05%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dkiper_j r_mel%26id%3d2042932

We'll expect a written apology for lying as soon as you get the time. Thanks in advance. ;)

LOL, is that why he had him going to Green Bay at #24 in his last mock draft that year? You know, the pick right before the Skins picked? Just keep making crap up.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft05/columns/story?columnist=kiper_jr_mel&id=2042932


Beat ya! :nana:

[ouvan59]

Beat ya! :nana:

LOL, sometimes Puke fans make such ridiculous statements that I don't take time to read the rest of the thread.

[TonyRomoProBowl]

Someone mentioned it earlier, it was just for completeness. Just a single place to look for all those stats that people keep mentioning. I myself find it unfair as well, its like the people who used to argue that you should take out a RB's longest run. However, I do think that Bubba was correct in that JC wasn't outplayed by Romo by that much.


I agree...it wasnt by that much in comparrision to the head to head. I dont deny that. Better is better, whether its by a little or a lot. Bubba's point and he was correct at the time it was said, was that Romo did not play on a "whole different level" then Campbell when you campare the two in head to head VS common opponents.

[TonyRomoProBowl]

LOL, sometimes Puke fans make such ridiculous statements that I don't take time to read the rest of the thread.

dont lump all the fans together. J_J made a statement about something, not "puke fans"......and there was talk after the draft about JC being a possible 2nd round pick. I NEVER EVER believe that crap when it comes out....no one really knows whats going on in a war room on draft day.

[jrockster21]

dont lump all the fans together. J_J made a statement about something, not "puke fans"......and there was talk after the draft about JC being a possible 2nd round pick. I NEVER EVER believe that crap when it comes out....no one really knows whats going on in a war room on draft day.

At the end of the day, if JC becomes a franchise QB for the Skins, does it really matter where he was drafted? If New England had reached on Brady in the 2nd or 3rd round, and he did what he did, would people be criticizing them for where they drafted him? Probably not. I will say this - when Campbell has a better career than Rodgers and Smith, people will be criticizing the 9ers and Packers, that's for damn sure! :)

[ouvan59]

dont lump all the fans together. J_J made a statement about something, not "puke fans"......and there was talk after the draft about JC being a possible 2nd round pick. I NEVER EVER believe that crap when it comes out....no one really knows whats going on in a war room on draft day.

LOL, you're still a Cowboy fan. Spend enough time here and we'll drive you crazy and you'll turn into a raving, twitchy-eyed, puke fan. There is no known defense for it. The first sympton is already starting to show on you. We can already see the veins bulging out in your neck while you are typing responses. ;)

[TonyRomoProBowl]

At the end of the day, if JC becomes a franchise QB for the Skins, does it really matter where he was drafted? If New England had reached on Brady in the 2nd or 3rd round, and he did what he did, would people be criticizing them for where they drafted him? Probably not. I will say this - when Campbell has a better career than Rodgers and Smith, people will be criticizing the 9ers and Packers, that's for damn sure! :)

Great point. :applause:

I am with you all the way.

[flashback]

Common opponents is about as apples to apples as you can get when comparing QBs. Even more than head-to-head. But keep in mind, these are still 2 players with very different skills, in very different offenses, and in very different situations. Romo was a 3-year starter as Div 1-AA (not DIII, as was previously stated) Eastern Illinois. He was 584 for 941 for 8212 yards and 85 TDs in college. Campbell started 40 games and threw for over 7000 yards at Auburn. Romo sat on the bench for 2x as long as Campbell before getting his shot. Romo played a lot more than Campbell in the pre-season in 2006. Romo was playing just about every week for the NFC East crown, playoff seeding, and home-field advantage in the playoffs. Campbell took over a 3-6 team that was more or less playing out the string. We could go all the way down the roster with the various differences at OL, WR, RB, etc, defensive rankings, running attacks, etc. But the point is that even this common opponents comparison is no substitute for actually watching these guys play.

Also, just for fun, we could drop Romo's Thanksgiving Day Massacre, but you should also drop Jason's best game, which was week 17 vs the Giants, IIRC.

[TonyRomoProBowl]

LOL, you're still a Cowboy fan. Spend enough time here and we'll drive you crazy and you'll turn into a raving, twitchy-eyed, puke fan. There is no known defense for it. The first sympton is already starting to show on you. We can already see the veins bulging out in your neck while you are typing responses. ;)

:laugh:

impossible, but you can try. I am too objective and way to honest to get that way. I take it for what it is. i make my points and i say what i say. I may be wrong about some things from time to time.....but hey arent we all.

I like this place, and have fun while i am here, but i will never fall trap to the nonsense.......

[TonyRomoProBowl]

Common opponents is about as apples to apples as you can get when comparing QBs. Even more than head-to-head. But keep in mind, these are still 2 players with very different skills, in very different offenses, and in very different situations. Romo was a 3-year starter as Div 1-AA (not DIII, as was previously stated) Eastern Illinois. He was 584 for 941 for 8212 yards and 85 TDs in college. Campbell started 40 games and threw for over 7000 yards at Auburn. Romo sat on the bench for 2x as long as Campbell before getting his shot. Romo played a lot more than Campbell in the pre-season in 2006. Romo was playing just about every week for the NFC East crown, playoff seeding, and home-field advantage in the playoffs. Campbell took over a 3-6 team that was more or less playing out the string. We could go all the way down the roster with the various differences at OL, WR, RB, etc, defensive rankings, running attacks, etc. But the point is that even this common opponents comparison is no substitute for actually watching these guys play.

Also, just for fun, we could drop Romo's Thanksgiving Day Massacre, but you should also drop Jason's best game, which was week 17 vs the Giants, IIRC.


Man, all great points. I like the fact that you stated the umero numero (is that a word) reason for Campbell and Romo to succeed at the next level and that is starts in college. Gil Brandt did a study on this and the QB's that start over 30 games in college no matter the school, rank, division...etc had WAY more success then those that started less then 30.

And lets not take games away from QB's when comparring. its just not fair. They get paid to play and they play the teams that are on the schedule.

[bubba9497]

Unless I'm confused the common opponents that Romo and Campbell played against were NYG, PHI, NO, TB, ATL, and CAR. Romo actually played a game and a half against NYG. So you've got 6 games for Campbell and 6.5 games for Romo. If you add up the stats from Romo's 6.5 games, you get

ATT - 215
CMP - 132
YDS - 1729
TD - 12
INT - 9

This gives Romo a completion % of 61.4, and a yards/attempt of 8.04, and 266 yards/game. The QB rating is 87.9. Bubba, just say the word and I'll redo these numbers without that 2nd half vs. the Giants in November.

For Campbell, you get

ATT - 181
CMP - 97
YDS - 1137
TD - 9
INT - 6

Campbell's completion percentage is 53.6, and his yards/attempt is 6.28. The QB rating is 75.7. His yards/game is 189.5.

Both QBs beat the Panthers. Campbell had a win vs. NO, who blew Romo and the 'Boys out. Romo beat the Giants and the Falcons, both of whom beat the 'Skins. Neither QB beat Philadelphia.

Now, I suppose it's not fair if I don't include Romo's fumbles, and Campbell's rushing stats. Romo had one fumble against the Giants, and 2 against the Falcons. None of the 3 fumbles resulted in a turnover. Campbell had one fumble vs. NO that he recovered himself.

Campbell rushed 23 times for 100 yards in the games we're talking about. However, since they include kneel downs as rushes, I feel that stat is skewed. So if we take out the kneel downs, he rushed 18 times for 106 yards, a 5.9 yard average. That also adds 17.7 yards to his per game production, which puts him over 200 yards per game. Romo rushed 19 times for 75 yards, again in 6.5 games. If we adjust for kneel downs, we get 16 rushes for 79 yards, which comes to a 4.9 average, and 12.2 yards/game.

I'll leave to you guys to crunch these numbers however you want. Bubba, if you're confident that this is an indication that "there (sic) numbers were almost equal", I won't try to talk you out of it.

If you want my personal opinion, Jason Campbell scares the hell out of me. I think he was a great draft pick, and I think he's going to be a very good QB. But I'm very confident the Redskins will find some way to screw this up. :D

very good

but not exactly what I said or referring to

I see you want to include Tampa Bay fair enough, but lets also point out that

Tampa was Campbell's first start EVER, and also on the road, where it was Romo's third start and fifth game played, also not only was it a home game, but he got Tampa on a short week, and on Thanksgiving...clearly not a real fair comparison

that's is why I started with the month of December, Campbell at least had a couple of games played, and there was 4 of 5 common opponents, over and equal period of time (and I also pointed that out in my comparisons, not trying to hide anything)

and during that period the numbers are close, very close, if not Campbell had better in some areas.


Now I realize why you want to include Tampa, it was clearly a huge advantage for the Romo a 148 QBR 5 TD and 0 Int, but it you actually payed attention to what I said... that Campbell had better numbers in 3 of 4 game against CO... in this case 3 of 5 games played against common opponents... which is 100% true

of course the one game in Tampa, skews the comparison greatly when you "average" the games, instead of looking at each one individually (like the 45.5 QBR rated game Romo put up against the Eagles)

and I won't accuse you of cherry picking for wanting to include Tampa, and act like it was a fair comparison, or that you wanted to "average" the games instead of use a individual game by game comparison, as I did

Nor repeatedly point out that you twisted what I said to meet your agenda, just slightly to try and make it look like I was exaggerating, or fabricating the results... I mean there is a difference when you used the five games in Dec. to five games that included a games Romo and Campbell played in Nov. that wasn't used in the numbers I pointed out I mean when you realize they are two different set of numbers... then of course everything I said about the first set, wouldn't be true to a different set, and would be a moot point... but if you need to skew the results and use it to debunk what I said.. so be it.

I mean if you are so confident in Romo, something like that wouldn't be needed, IMO and kind of takes away from your point, like you are trying to be tricky

BTW even using your numbers' averaged....and ignoring the advantage Romo had with the Tampa game, over Campbell's first start... the numbers are closer than using the entire season

[bubba9497]

Also, just for fun, we could drop Romo's Thanksgiving Day Massacre, but you should also drop Jason's best game, which was week 17 vs the Giants, IIRC.


why would you do that?


wouldn't you drop Campbell's Tampa results... since it would be the same common opponents

:doh: oh that's right, it would skew the results to make Romo look better

I mean that wouldn't be cherry picking or anything like that would it? :rolleyes:

I know why do we avg out Romo's worse three games, against Campbell's, if you want to manipulate stats to skew the results :laugh:

[flashback]

Ummmmmmm ... OK.

IMO, they either played the same opponents or they didn't. If that game isn't as significant in your mind because it was Campbell's first start, or because of the short week, that's up to you. That's the beauty of stats, you can use them however you want to.

I just took EVERY GAME VS COMMON OPPONENTS. That's the opposite of cherry-picking, so thank you for not accusing me of that. :)

I do have a question, though. Why did Romo perform so well before teams had film of him, but not Campbell? And didn't teams have lots more film on Romo since he'd been in the league longer, and had so many preseason snaps?

[TonyRomoProBowl]

Ummmmmmm ... OK.

IMO, they either played the same opponents or they didn't. If that game isn't as significant in your mind because it was Campbell's first start, or because of the short week, that's up to you. That's the beauty of stats, you can use them however you want to.

I just took EVERY GAME VS COMMON OPPONENTS. That's the opposite of cherry-picking, so thank you for not accusing me of that. :)

I do have a question, though. Why did Romo perform so well before teams had film of him, but not Campbell? And didn't teams have lots more film on Romo since he'd been in the league longer, and had so many preseason snaps?

yes, i would like to know the answers to that myself.

And why are you so hung up on this 1st start ever. It was a good game for Campbell (90's rating, 2 TD's no picks) Romo had his first start ever vs a better team also on the road (Carolina record 4-3)...no one is cryin foul to get that game erased in comparrision of common opponents vs Campbell due to it being his "first start"....Just let it go already. All common opponents should count if your making a comparrision between the two players....and as i have said, it was closer then any Dallas fan has admitted, but Romo was clearly better.

[Califan007]

I do have a question, though. Why did Romo perform so well before teams had film of him, but not Campbell?
Even better question: why did Campbell only get better after opponents had game film on him, as where Romo got worse? lol :D


And didn't teams have lots more film on Romo since he'd been in the league longer, and had so many preseason snaps?
Nobody uses preseason game film of a QB who's starting against scrubs from 3 years ago...and Romo had not thrown a single pass in the NFL during the regular season until this last season. Not sure where anyone would have "lots more film" on his performances, nuances, weakness, etc, etc.

[Westbrook36]

I can't believe that people honestly try to say that Campbell's 2006 was better than or as good as Romos. Everytime Bubba starts another one of these threads and copies and pastes the ready made stats he has saved on his desktop, this forum goes down another notch. :laugh:

[Califan007]

I can't believe that people honestly try to say that Campbell's 2006 was better than or as good as Romos.
That's because nobody has. Pay attention.

[flashback]

Nobody uses preseason game film of a QB who's starting against scrubs from 3 years ago...and Romo had not thrown a single pass in the NFL during the regular season until this last season. Not sure where anyone would have "lots more film" on his performances, nuances, weakness, etc, etc.
OK, but what about preseason game film of a QB who's starting against starters from 3 months ago? Can you ask all your coach/GM friends and get back to us on that? Thanks so much, and take your time.... :)

Sorry, I'm crackin' wise. But there probably something to be said about the Cowboys success under Romo that they weren't getting under Bledsoe for 4 or 5 games. I think that Romo had a huge impact on how the entire offense looked. It wasn't just that DCs didn't know Romo tendancies, etc., it was that the OL had different tendencies, the play-calling changed, the running game changed, etc. After that initial boost, defenses started to catch up again. Sean Payton knew exactly what to do to defend Romo, and Mike Holmgren did, too. But again, I don't put that all on Romo. The coaches need to make adjustments, and the rest of the offense needs to execute, too.

Part of why I like Romo so much is that he ended the Drew Bledsoe era. So I'll stick with my guy no matter how many times Jason Campbell outperforms him against common oppenents in December without averaging the games.

[sableholic]

That's because nobody has. Pay attention.

Was just about to say that.

[sableholic]

Part of why I like Romo so much is that he ended the Drew Bledsoe era.

Bills fans feel the same way about Losman.

[TonyRomoProBowl]

Even better question: why did Campbell only get better after opponents had game film on him, as where Romo got worse? lol :D

so you answer a question with a question...thats one way not to answer....

To answer your question, because Romo played poorly at times under pressure. He was tryin way to hard to win games on his own and it back fired more then once. He most definitly played bad in games that counted (Philly and Nawlens)

Campbell on the otherhand, really wasnt playing for much. He was very relaxed knowing that he had nothing to lose or nothing to win. We have no idea yet, how Campbell will react when he is faced with a huge game where his team is playing for the division and the playoffs and Def. are coming after him. and to be honest we still wont know after this season. :D

[desioreo87]

It all comes to down to the fact that JC was in a new system with which he had no practices or touches with the first team prior to him starting in the Tampa game. As we all know, the Suanders offensive system is based on timing, something that JC had no time to get down or even build chemistry with his WRs. JC played the first seven games of his NFL career off of pure football ability. It was obvious. he got better each week but he was still a very raw QB in his first 7 outings.

Now Romo had been in the same system yaer in and year out for 3 or 4 seasons and therefore he knows the system as well as any qb knows any system in the NFL, save PM or TB. Romo was so much more prepared for starting in the NFL last year because he had plenty of touches with the first team and he knew the system, he wasn't going into his first start unprepared even if he hadn't started before. And its no secret that ROMo definitely slipped in the second half of his starts and that continued into the playoffs. Its never good when all your opponent needs is 4 tapes on romo and they have figured him out.

I think Campbell has way more upside than Romo in the coming years and I don't think that Romo is gonna grow that much more as a QB and in 2 to 3 years the poke nation will be looking for the next TR. I think campbell can keep getting better and I think he will show his marked improvement this year in leading our team to a winning record. I also think he has a shot at the probowl this year, but really i think we will see what happens in Saunder's system when Campbell has his timing down and he and Moss are on the same page.

HTTR

[Westbrook36]

That's because nobody has. Pay attention.

Right. I know the game in here. Everyone compares stats, talks about how Romo faded in December, etc but no one has the balls to come out and say JC outperformed him. Everyone dances around it because they know how ridiculous it is to even suggest it.

I liken it to Rosie ODonnell saying "You tell me who the terrorists are?" then refusing to say who the terrorists are.

[TonyRomoProBowl]

It all comes to down to the fact that JC was in a new system with which he had no practices or touches with the first team prior to him starting in the Tampa game. As we all know, the Suanders offensive system is based on timing, something that JC had no time to get down or even build chemistry with his WRs. JC played the first seven games of his NFL career off of pure football ability. It was obvious. he got better each week but he was still a very raw QB in his first 7 outings.

Now Romo had been in the same system yaer in and year out for 3 or 4 seasons and therefore he knows the system as well as any qb knows any system in the NFL, save PM or TB. Romo was so much more prepared for starting in the NFL last year because he had plenty of touches with the first team and he knew the system, he wasn't going into his first start unprepared even if he hadn't started before. And its no secret that ROMo definitely slipped in the second half of his starts and that continued into the playoffs. Its never good when all your opponent needs is 4 tapes on romo and they have figured him out.

I think Campbell has way more upside than Romo in the coming years and I don't think that Romo is gonna grow that much more as a QB and in 2 to 3 years the poke nation will be looking for the next TR. I think campbell can keep getting better and I think he will show his marked improvement this year in leading our team to a winning record. I also think he has a shot at the probowl this year, but really i think we will see what happens in Saunder's system when Campbell has his timing down and he and Moss are on the same page.

HTTR


there is a concept, a Skins fan that thinks Campbell has more upside then Romo and will be a better QB when its all said and done.....gee way to go out on a limb there.

[sableholic]

Right. I know the game in here. Everyone compares stats, talks about how Romo faded in December, etc but no one has the balls to come out and say JC outperformed him. Everyone dances around it because they know how ridiculous it is to even suggest it.

I liken it to Rosie ODonnell saying "You tell me who the terrorists are?" then refusing to say who the terrorists are.

... I think its clearly stated numerous times that we are comparing the common opponents and that Romo did better, it just wasnt a insane difference like some people seem to think. That's all. I dont think anybody can say what you think we are saying (that Campbell had a better year than Romo) because its not true.

[Califan007]

OK, but what about preseason game film of a QB who's starting against starters from 3 months ago?
If that's all they have, then maybe...but NOBODY would put the same value on preseason performance game film as regular season game film. Players playing not to get hurt, vanilla offenses and defenses, QBs playing against teams that are not game planning to win...it doesn't hold much value.



Can you ask all your coach/GM friends and get back to us on that? Thanks so much, and take your time.... :)
Logic alone answer that question...you'll find that out for yourself once you acquire some lol ;)



Sorry, I'm crackin' wise. But there probably something to be said about the Cowboys success under Romo that they weren't getting under Bledsoe for 4 or 5 games. I think that Romo had a huge impact on how the entire offense looked.
I do, too...and part of that was that while opponents had years of regular season game film to understand Bledsoe's nuances and weaknesses, they had, they only had a few quarters of preseason play to understand Romo's.



It wasn't just that DCs didn't know Romo tendancies, etc.,
Never said it WAS just that...but to discount that part because he "played in the preseason" and that tape should be enough is ludicrious.




Part of why I like Romo so much is that he ended the Drew Bledsoe era.
Yeah, similar feelings around here concerning Campbell and the end of the Brunell era lol :laugh:...

[TonyRomoProBowl]

... I think its clearly stated numerous times that we are comparing the common opponents and that Romo did better, it just wasnt a insane difference like some people seem to think. That's all. I dont think anybody can say what you think we are saying (that Campbell had a better year than Romo) because its not true.

I have only said that 50 million times.....ok, that is a hint of sarcasim......but i have been sayin that all alog. Better is better, and Romo IS BETTER then Campbell. Now we can revisit it after the season to see if he is "still" better or not, but since no one has a crytal ball or a time machine, we have to go with what we all know...and thats Romo > Campbell.

[flashback]

... I think its clearly stated numerous times that we are comparing the common opponents and that Romo did better, it just wasnt a insane difference like some people seem to think. That's all. I dont think anybody can say what you think we are saying (that Campbell had a better year than Romo) because its not true.
I don't think that you can say that what I said was not different than what you were saying when I said what that guy thinks. Because that is RIDICULOUS!!

[sableholic]

I have only said that 50 million times.....ok, that is a hint of sarcasim......but i have been sayin that all alog. Better is better, and Romo IS BETTER then Campbell. Now we can revisit it after the season to see if he is "still" better or not, but since no one has a crytal ball or a time machine, we have to go with what we all know...and thats Romo > Campbell.

ATM I don't see how you can't agree with that. As you said we'll certainly revisit this topic I'm sure.

Edit: I fail at reading comprehension. I thought you meant that Romo played better. I'll give you that Romo played better not that he is better, that I can't decide for a long time.

[sableholic]

I don't think that you can say that what I said was not different than what you were saying when I said what that guy thinks. Because that is RIDICULOUS!!

Not sure if this is a movie quote or what, but :doh:

[flashback]

Holy ****.... I think we ended the Romo v. Campbell debate. Nice job, fellas. Have a cold one, later. Cuz its not even 11 am out here.

[TonyRomoProBowl]

Holy ****.... I think we ended the Romo v. Campbell debate. Nice job, fellas. Have a cold one, later. Cuz its not even 11 am out here.


:cheers: after 50 thousand threads and 5 million post, we finally did it. Good work on both sides.

[Califan007]

so you answer a question with a question...thats one way not to answer....
No, it's a very telling way to answer. For those who need it spelled out for them, it's the same as saying:

"Young QBs in their first time starting not playing too well, regardless of whether or not opposing DCs have game film on them, is ridiculously common...these QBs can make 'rookie' mistakes without having any opposing DCs help them make them...but once those first several games are under his belt, then they need to start improving their play, and they'll need to do it against DCs who DO have game film and HAVE started game planning against his nuances and weaknesses. If he does indeed improve, then that's a good sign, because not only is he overcoming his own 'rookie' mistakes, he's also not letting opposing DCs stop his development. However, if he doesn't improve and instead gets worse...well, that's not a very good sign. Might not be a bad sign, but it's not a good one."

Now, most of us didn't need it spelled out quite so literally...but if you do need that extra assistance, just speak up and I'll gladly type it out for ya. :thumbsup:




Campbell on the otherhand, really wasnt playing for much.
No...he was just playing for his continued career, that's all. That is, unless Gibbs pulled him aside and told him he could play atrociously in every single game and he was still guaranteed the starting position. And the teams/defenses he was playing against were playing for playoff spots and home field advantage...


He was very relaxed knowing that he had nothing to lose or nothing to win.
"Very relaxed" because he had "Nothing to win"??...You seriously mean that? :doh: Of course it's not like Campbell has ever looked "very relaxed" before in his entire college career as well, so it's not like it's just a natural characterstic of his to remain calm and poised on the field...nah, it's all because he knew nobody cared how he did, whether or not he threw 47 TDs or 47 INTs. As where poor stressed-out Romo had a two-game lead on the nearest division rival, with three of the next four games at home...oh, the pressure.



We have no idea yet, how Campbell will react when he is faced with a huge game where his team is playing for the division and the playoffs and Def. are coming after him. and to be honest we still wont know after this season. :D
So, you also expect the Skins to win the division in a cake walk, so that they won't be playing any "huge games" with the division title/playoffs on the line since they'll be wrapping it up with ease? Welcome aboard! :cheers:

[Califan007]

I have only said that 50 million times.....ok, that is a hint of sarcasim......but i have been sayin that all alog. Better is better, and Romo IS BETTER then Campbell.
No, Romo PLAYED better than Campbell...since neither has actually played anything close to a full season, and both had their first starts last year, it's WAY too early to say who is better. At the most we can only say who WAS better during around half a season of games. Frerotte's first 5-6 games for us were better than Aikman's first 5-6 games for you. Hardly translates into "Frerotte IS BETTER than Aikman".

Romo played better...yes
Romo IS better...don't know yet.

[Califan007]

I don't think that you can say that what I said was not different than what you were saying when I said what that guy thinks. Because that is RIDICULOUS!!
Huh?

[sableholic]

No, Romo PLAYED better than Campbell...since neither has actually played anything close to a full season, and both had their first starts last year, it's WAY too early to say who is better. At the most we can only say who WAS better during around half a season of games. Frerotte's first 5-6 games for us were better than Aikman's first 5-6 games for you. Hardly translates into "Frerotte IS BETTER than Aikman".

Romo played better...yes
Romo IS better...don't know yet.

Oh hey I didnt even realize he stated it that way. Some reason I just assumed he was saying exactly what Westbrook said. Yeah I definately didn't mean Romo is better. I'll just cut and paste what you said as its what I meant:

Romo played better...yes
Romo IS better...don't know yet.

[TonyRomoProBowl]

No, Romo PLAYED better than Campbell...since neither has actually played anything close to a full season, and both had their first starts last year, it's WAY too early to say who is better. At the most we can only say who WAS better during around half a season of games. Frerotte's first 5-6 games for us were better than Aikman's first 5-6 games for you. Hardly translates into "Frerotte IS BETTER than Aikman".

Romo played better...yes
Romo IS better...don't know yet.


oh rats! And just when you think its settled.....Its not about who is GOING to be better. Its who is better right now. I mean to say Romo played better...yes
Romo IS better...don't know yet. is a flat out cop out. Romo is a better QB going into the 2007 season. You just cant argue that. Yopu can use the ferrotte vs Aikman card all you want, but we have seen enough out of the two to make a judgment for going into the season. Can Campbell play better and pass him up? Sure he can, but as of right now, Romo is a better QB then Campbell.

[bubba9497]

I can't believe that people honestly try to say that Campbell's 2006 was better than or as good as Romos. Everytime Bubba starts another one of these threads and copies and pastes the ready made stats he has saved on his desktop, this forum goes down another notch. :laugh:


you never pay attention do you? In your haste to try and insult me, you actual make yourself look foolish... yet again


I nor anyone else has ever said Campbell played better overall... not one time

In fact it is the opposite, Poke fans have been clamoring that Romo had played at a "whole other level" than campbell, which is simply not true

and which has been pointed out time and time again

even in flashback attempt to skew what I was saying... and avgerage the stats against the five common opponents... even with the Tampa game... Romo's stats show he didn't obtain the "whole other level" status he was only 12 points higher in QBR

thanks for the laugh

[TonyRomoProBowl]

you never pay attention do you? In your haste to try and insult me, you actual make yourself look foolish... yet again


I nor anyone else has ever said Campbell played better overall... not one time

In fact it is the opposite, Poke fans have been clamoring that Romo had played at a "whole other level" than campbell, which is simply not true

and which has been pointed out time and time again

even in flashback attempt to skew what I was saying... and avgerage the stats against the five common opponents... even with the Tampa game... Romo's stats show he didn't obtain the "whole other level" status he was only 12 points higher in QBR

thanks for the laugh

Bubba, i believe one person said "whole other level" maybe two...but we settled it here today. i have never EVER said that it was on another level, i have always maintained that it was closer then Dallas fans were willing to admit...but better is better, and we finally agreed that Romo is oin fact better then Campbell...so we can all move on.

[Califan007]

oh rats! And just when you think its settled.....Its not about who is GOING to be better. Its who is better right now. I mean to say is a flat out cop out. Romo is a better QB going into the 2007 season. You just cant argue that.
I can easily argue it, and have. The fact that you couldn't grasp my argument doesn't mean I didn't.


Yopu can use the ferrotte vs Aikman card all you want, but we have seen enough out of the two to make a judgment for going into the season.
No, YOU have. "We" have not. Romo had a better season. It take far more than 10 games to determine whether or not a QB is any good, nonetheless if he's any better than another QB. Not sure why you need the security blanket of the "Romo IS better than Campbell!! :excited: " mantra...but it's telling.



Can Campbell play better and pass him up? Sure he can, but as of right now, Romo is a better QB then Campbell.
Ah, so in your world, which QB is better can change from week to week then? Campbell plays better than Romo in week one of this season, then we get to say "Campbell right now is better than Romo!"...and then if Romo turns around and plays better than Campbell in week 2, you get to come back and say "No, Romo is better than Campbell!"...Since you feel the amount of games played has no relevance as to determining which QB should be considered "better", it only follows that this would be true.

[bubba9497]

Ummmmmmm ... OK.

IMO, they either played the same opponents or they didn't. If that game isn't as significant in your mind because it was Campbell's first start, or because of the short week, that's up to you. That's the beauty of stats, you can use them however you want to.

I just took EVERY GAME VS COMMON OPPONENTS. That's the opposite of cherry-picking, so thank you for not accusing me of that. :)

The only thing that I fault you with is twisting my argument, and using different numbers to try and debunk what I said

I completely understand why you changed my point of who had the better individual games, to an average ... the one abnormal game throws the avg off in a small amount of games to avg.

and for the record, if you go back and search in previous threads, I never hid the fact Romo had the huge game against Tampa, and explained why it was left out in the comparison... and while you won't admit it... the reason is logica and sound... you want to make situations as equal as possible when comparing subjects



I do have a question, though. Why did Romo perform so well before teams had film of him, but not Campbell? And didn't teams have lots more film on Romo since he'd been in the league longer, and had so many preseason snaps?


several reason, which have all been explained before

1. Level of competition, All of Romo's 100+ rated games (except Tampa) came against some of the worst pass defenses in the NFL

2. Experience factor, Romo was being groomed to replace Bledsoe in the season, from the beginning of TC, Romo was getting the lions share of the work with the first team, and most of the snap. He also had more reps and pass attempts in preseason than any other QB... He played 1 full game, and the equalivent of a full game with the OT Time game that ended in a tie against the Vikes, replacing Bledsoe in the third series. after the regular season began, Romo was still sharing practice snaps and prepped just as the starter. Romo also had snaps in regular season before his first start (which is also why I didn't count JC first start.)

3. Years in the same system, Romo has been in the same system for 4 years, to JC first with Saunders (going back to college) or his 6 OC in 6 years. JC was learning on the fly, which neutralizes any advantage he would have had in his first couple games, with out teams having any film on him.

4. surrounding players, JC first game Moss was out with an injury that hampered him for a couple games after he returned, Portis was on IR... he also didn't have Lloyd for two games at the endRomo had two 1000 yard WR, a Pro owl TE, and all his RB. and J_J likes to say that the defense has a say in a QB stats... well Dallas had the better overall defense, more turnovers to work off a shorter field, and the best Punter in the leaague

5. Romo is a scrambler, sand lot style QB, harder to defend than the standard pocker passer like Campbell, when you don't know what he he is going to do. Once teams started getting info on his tendencies, they could game plan to keep him in check.

[bubba9497]

Bubba, i believe one person said "whole other level" maybe two...but we settled it here today. i have never EVER said that it was on another level, i have always maintained that it was closer then Dallas fans were willing to admit...but better is better, and we finally agreed that Romo is oin fact better then Campbell...so we can all move on.


to be exact it was TheHereAfter and J_J, I have clearly said from the get go my stance, and what I was trying to prove

yet people just keep twisting it around to suit their agenda


BTW when you are battling the whole poke nation (or the ES branch :) ) , it is difficult to keep up with who said what

:)

[TonyRomoProBowl]

I can easily argue it, and have. The fact that you couldn't grasp my argument doesn't mean I didn't.



No, YOU have. "We" have not. Romo had a better season. It take far more than 10 games to determine whether or not a QB is any good, nonetheless if he's any better than another QB. Not sure why you need the security blanket of the "Romo IS better than Campbell!! :excited: " mantra...but it's telling.




Ah, so in your world, which QB is better can change from week to week then? Campbell plays better than Romo in week one of this season, then we get to say "Campbell right now is better than Romo!"...and then if Romo turns around and plays better than Campbell in week 2, you get to come back and say "No, Romo is better than Campbell!"...Since you feel the amount of games played has no relevance as to determining which QB should be considered "better", it only follows that this would be true.


All i know is....Romo > Campbell :excited:

[flashback]

even in flashback attempt to skew what I was saying
Sorry, bubba, but I didn't skew what anybody was saying. I posted the stats from Romo and Campbell vs. common opponents in 2006. I didn't say anything about a whole other level, I didn't even dispute your opinion that the "numbers were almost equal." All I did was post the stats.

[TonyRomoProBowl]

to be exact it was TheHereAfter and J_J, I have clearly said from the get go my stance, and what I was trying to prove

yet people just keep twisting it around to suit their agenda


BTW when you are battling the whole poke nation (or the ES branch :) ) , it is difficult to keep up with who said what

:)

ok, so it was two....I have maintaineed my stance as well, better is better......

Romo > Campbell :excited:

[Califan007]

All i know is....Romo > Campbell :excited:
That's one way not to answer... ;)

[bubba9497]

Sorry, bubba, but I didn't skew what anybody was saying. I posted the stats from Romo and Campbell vs. common opponents in 2006. I didn't say anything about a whole other level, I didn't even dispute your opinion that the "numbers were almost equal." All I did was post the stats.


yes you did, you were using completely different numbers

I'll leave to you guys to crunch these numbers however you want. Bubba, if you're confident that this is an indication that "there (sic) numbers were almost equal", I won't try to talk you out of it.

why would I want to say something like that when they weren't the numbers I was referring to to begin with??? I was using the numbers from the month of December (which all the stats were averaged out on NFL.Com) and during that period.. the numbers were close... I didn't say or imply that their avg. stats against all 5 CO games were close....

so, that is not skewing my argument?



also you averaged the common opponent stats, when I was pointing out that who had the better stats for each game of the common opponents in the month of Dec.... two different points

[flashback]

yes you did, you were using completely different numbers



why would I want to say something like that when they weren't the numbers I was referring to to begin with??? I was using the numbers from the month of December (which all the stats were averaged out on NFL.Com) and during that period.. the numbers were close... I didn't say or imply that their avg. stats against all 5 CO games were close....

so, that is not skewing my argument?



also you averaged the common opponent stats, when I was pointing out that who had the better stats for each game of the common opponents in the month of Dec.... two different points
How can you not be absolutely sick and tired by these stupid semantic arguments?

I apologize. I should not have quoted you in my post. I didn't know you had qualified which common opponents you were talking about, or that you weren't combining the totals from those games when you made that statement.

Have a day.

[jrockster21]

and I won't accuse you of cherry picking for wanting to include Tampa, and act like it was a fair comparison, or that you wanted to "average" the games instead of use a individual game by game comparison, as I did

I don't think its cherry picking to include Tampa in the comparison - they both played Tampa, so it should be included.

Romo had a great game against Tampa. It happened that Tampa was JC's first start ever, and he also played them on the road. But not to detract from Romo's performance - it was great.

I can't believe that people honestly try to say that Campbell's 2006 was better than or as good as Romos. Everytime Bubba starts another one of these threads and copies and pastes the ready made stats he has saved on his desktop, this forum goes down another notch. :laugh:

:slap:

[bubba9497]

How can you not be absolutely sick and tired by these stupid semantic arguments?

I apologize. I should not have quoted you in my post. I didn't know you had qualified which common opponents you were talking about, or that you weren't combining the totals from those games when you made that statement.

Have a day.


there is no one on this board who is more sick and tired of it, I am constantly having my words twisted, or having been accused of saying things I never said at all. It is irritating, but a necessary evil when your actual words are being used as part of the debate.

Thanks, no apology needed

Day A Have

[bubba9497]

I don't think its cherry picking to include Tampa in the comparison - they both played Tampa, so it should be included.

Romo had a great game against Tampa. It happened that Tampa was JC's first start ever, and he also played them on the road. But not to detract from Romo's performance - it was great.



:slap:


I said I wouldn't accuse him of cherry picking :whoknows:

never once said Romo didn't play great against Tampa... nor that Romo played better than Campbell or even ignored the fact of leaving the Tampa game in the comparison I was making, and explained why I did... and why I used the month of Dec.

[Westbrook36]

there is no one on this board who is more sick and tired of it, I am constantly having my words twisted, or having been accused of saying things I never said at all. It is irritating, but a necessary evil when you actual words are being used as part of the debate.

Thanks, no apology needed

Day A Have

You are so sick of it that you made a new Romo vs Cambell thread. :laugh:

[ArmchairRedskin]

ok, so it was two....I have maintaineed my stance as well, better is better......

Romo > Campbell :excited:



So Romo's first 7 games ever as a starter were better than Campbell's first 7 ever. Luckily, being a QB for a team is not a 7 game sprint and luckily, the guy who starts fast doesn't always finish best.

For now you can have your fun. I wouldn't count all my unhatched eggs just yet, though.

[dfos81]

Dallas fans are dying to have some certainty at the qb spot as well as coaching, but the fact is coaching changes and qb changes haven't been so good for Dallas this decade. i wouldn't count my chickens just yet Dallas fans.

[SkinsHokieFan]

M&W= Heavyhitta31 at Cowboyszone

Except he is too chicken **** to post with the same handle here

He is useless and should be banned now

[bubba9497]

So Romo's first 7 games ever as a starter were better than Campbell's first 7 ever. Luckily, being a QB for a team is not a 7 game sprint and luckily, the guy who starts fast doesn't always finish best.

For now you can have your fun. I wouldn't count all my unhatched eggs just yet, though.



Romo was clearly better in the games I listed in the first post of the thread



:D

[Idgit]

So Romo's first 7 games ever as a starter were better than Campbell's first 7 ever. Luckily, being a QB for a team is not a 7 game sprint and luckily, the guy who starts fast doesn't always finish best.

For now you can have your fun. I wouldn't count all my unhatched eggs just yet, though.

Do you Skins fans ever address what you think is going to happen when Campbell's got enough film on him that defenses start to correct for *his* strengths?

I know you're all awfully fond of comparing Romo and Campbell at the end of the season, only the games in common. And I believe you all like to say--despite the obvious evidence to the contrary--that Romo got 'figured out' when there was game film on him. So, out of curiousity, what's the over-and-under on how many more games it will take before teams get Campbells number? And when they do, what's the honest assessment of how it will affect his performance?

[bubba9497]

Do you Skins fans ever address what you think is going to happen when Campbell's got enough film on him that defenses start to correct for *his* strengths?

I know you're all awfully fond of comparing Romo and Campbell at the end of the season, only the games in common. And I believe you all like to say--despite the obvious evidence to the contrary--that Romo got 'figured out' when there was game film on him. So, out of curiousity, what's the over-and-under on how many more games it will take before teams get Campbells number? And when they do, what's the honest assessment of how it will affect his performance?

well for Romo it was around game 5

Campbell actually steadily improved as the season moved on having his best game in his last start... after teams had film on him


go back and read the thread, several of your "questions" were already addressed... and for the record YET AGAIN

not one Skin fan has claimed JC better than Romo at this point, just that Romo in an even a fair comparision hasn't exceeded past Campbell in those games enough to say, he is a whole different level above Campbell, and two it is still too early to know how either will preform in the future

[ArmchairRedskin]

Do you Skins fans ever address what you think is going to happen when Campbell's got enough film on him that defenses start to correct for *his* strengths?

I know you're all awfully fond of comparing Romo and Campbell at the end of the season, only the games in common. And I believe you all like to say--despite the obvious evidence to the contrary--that Romo got 'figured out' when there was game film on him. So, out of curiousity, what's the over-and-under on how many more games it will take before teams get Campbells number? And when they do, what's the honest assessment of how it will affect his performance?


Campbell is solid. Our Oline will protect him and we have a strong running game. He may not have had the most accurate year, but Saunders' offense is timing, and accuracy should improve. He has some good targets and he makes good decisions with the ball. He doesn't get rattled as is evidenced by the play he called in the huddle when the headsets went out and couldn't get the play in from coach. That play went for a TD to Cooley. That's a pretty impressive feat for a guy starting his first year. I like his 10/6 TD/INT ratio.

It won't be on his shoulders to carry the team. He doesn't need to light it up. We averaged 21+ points a game with him starting even with him only completing 53% of his passes. That's with our star RB never even being on the same field as him. Don't forget we scored 4 TD's in each of our last two games.

If our D returns to anywhere near the top ten, we'll be in the picture at the end of the season.



By the way, I have no idea why I would even engage in a conversation with a guy who calls himself Idgit :loser:

[THEHEREAFTER]

Right. I know the game in here. Everyone compares stats, talks about how Romo faded in December, etc but no one has the balls to come out and say JC outperformed him. Everyone dances around it because they know how ridiculous it is to even suggest it.

I liken it to Rosie ODonnell saying "You tell me who the terrorists are?" then refusing to say who the terrorists are.

:laugh:

[THEHEREAFTER]

I still stand by the statement that Tony Romo played at a much higher level than Jason Campbell looking at there small sampled seasons collectively. It's completely unreasonable to attempt to dismiss Campbell's first few starts and condense the comparison to common opponents in December. It's also absurd to take away games from Romo just because JC didn't play those opponents? You skins fans are tyring way to hard while ignoring QB rating and completion percentage.

JC has the tools to potentially become a great QB and Romo has already shown he has the potentiall to play at a high level and become a great QB as well. We don't know who will become the better QB. What we do know is that objectively speaking, Romo had a much better season in 2006. Bubba, you've stated plenty of reasons why this might be the case and I actually buy several of them. I don't think anyone outside of this board or better yet, outside of the same few usual suspects skins fans on this board that Romo easily outperformed JC in 2006. I'm 100% convinced that you guys get together and decide to attempt to drive Cowboys fans madly insane. There is simply no other explanation for some of the arguments on this board.

[DWinzit]

I'm 100% convinced that you guys get together and decide to attempt to drive Cowboys fans madly insane.What do you mean attempt!

Romo and JC both have bright futures!







JC's future is in football!;)

[bubba9497]

I'm 100% convinced that you guys get together and decide to attempt to drive Cowboys fans madly insane.



wait, did anyone force you to come here and spew your propaganda? :doh:

your big talk on a Redskin should be accepted an unchallenged?...... why because Poke fan word is law? :laugh: :laugh:

If you don't to here the truth, and opposite viewpoints, then go to a poke board

[THEHEREAFTER]

What do you mean attempt!

Romo and JC both have bright futures!







JC's future is in football!;)

:( It never ends. Skins fans just hate conceding anything for the Cowboys.

[THEHEREAFTER]

wait, did anyone force you to come here and spew your propaganda? :doh:

your big talk on a Redskin should be accepted an unchallenged?...... why because Poke fan word is law? :laugh: :laugh:

If you don't to here the truth, and opposite viewpoints, then go to a poke board


Propaganda? What propaganda? Stating that Tony Romo had a much better season last year than JC? So what you speak is the 100% truth Bubba? No bias at all?

[Idgit]

well for Romo it was around game 5

Campbell actually steadily improved as the season moved on having his best game in his last start... after teams had film on him

go back and read the thread, several of your "questions" were already addressed... and for the record YET AGAIN....

So, Bubba thinks teams have already figured out Campbell, and Campbell answered by getting better.

As for reading the thread, God no. I've spot read it enough to know the signal-to-noise ratio is too high for my patience.

Campbell is solid. Our Oline will protect him and we have a strong running game. He may not have had the most accurate year, but Saunders' offense is timing, and accuracy should improve. He has some good targets and he makes good decisions with the ball. He doesn't get rattled as is evidenced by the play he called in the huddle when the headsets went out and couldn't get the play in from coach. That play went for a TD to Cooley. That's a pretty impressive feat for a guy starting his first year. I like his 10/6 TD/INT ratio.

It won't be on his shoulders to carry the team. He doesn't need to light it up. We averaged 21+ points a game with him starting even with him only completing 53% of his passes. That's with our star RB never even being on the same field as him. Don't forget we scored 4 TD's in each of our last two games.

If our D returns to anywhere near the top ten, we'll be in the picture at the end of the season.

I don't particularly disagree with any of this, fwiw. Though I don't see quite how it addresses to my post.

I was asking whether or not you expected to see teams having film on Campbell affecting his performance at all this year. I was also curious what you all thought about the fairness of comparing Romo's starts at the end of the season (you know, once he was all figured out) to Campbell's starts against the same opponents. (For the record, I personally think the argument that teams figure out QBs is offset by the argument that QBs figure out teams. I'm really just guaging the extent of the double standard at this point).

By the way, I have no idea why I would even engage in a conversation with a guy who calls himself Idgit :loser:

What better name for a Cowboy fan who posts on ES? And 'Jerry's Kid' was taken. But if I can engage with a person who calls himself a Redskin fan, you can engage with an Idgit and still look yourself in the mirror.

[ouvan59]

Jason Campbell had a much better 2nd NFL season than Tony Romo. I'll wager any amount that his 3rd will be better and more than likely his 4th. In 18 months we'll know how Campbell's 4th season compares to Romo's. Unfortunately, it will probably be another 30 months (that's December, 2009) until we find out how Campbell does in his 4th season in the same offensive system.

[THEHEREAFTER]

Jason Campbell had a much better 2nd NFL season than Tony Romo. I'll wager any amount that his 3rd will be better and more than likely his 4th. .

Ouvan59 this is pretty clever and brilliant. I'm surprised Bubba hasn't come up with this one earlier. More ducking and game playing. Romo was an UDFA who sat the bench and awaited his opportunity. He prevailed against great odds. How many UDFA QB's go to the pro-bowl. JC was a first rounder so their opportunities were different. All we can do is wait and see how they turn out.

[RedskinDan0557]

Romo is a punk and cracks under pressure. He benefited from Parcells more than anything else.

The cowgirls have a new system and new coaching staff. Lets see how that works out for Romo this season.

[THEHEREAFTER]

The cowgirls have a new system and new coaching staff. Lets see how that works out for Romo this season.

We shall see. :applause:

[DWinzit]

:( It never ends. Skins fans just hate conceding anything for the Cowboys.Your sarcasm meter hasn't worked properly since the Cowboys season ended!:2cents: :cool:

[ArmchairRedskin]

So, Bubba thinks teams have already figured out Campbell, and Campbell answered by getting better.

As for reading the thread, God no. I've spot read it enough to know the signal-to-noise ratio is too high for my patience.



I don't particularly disagree with any of this, fwiw. Though I don't see quite how it addresses to my post.

I was asking whether or not you expected to see teams having film on Campbell affecting his performance at all this year. I was also curious what you all thought about the fairness of comparing Romo's starts at the end of the season (you know, once he was all figured out) to Campbell's starts against the same opponents. (For the record, I personally think the argument that teams figure out QBs is offset by the argument that QBs figure out teams. I'm really just guaging the extent of the double standard at this point).



What better name for a Cowboy fan who posts on ES? And 'Jerry's Kid' was taken. But if I can engage with a person who calls himself a Redskin fan, you can engage with an Idgit and still look yourself in the mirror.



Sure I can engage, but I'll only get dirty and have to wash up later. I hate washing up after.



My point about Campbell was that even if defenses "figure him out" it won't impact our team all that much. He has a terrific Oline and a formidable running game. The only way Campbell gets figured out, is if he can't figure the offense out. Seeing as how he's progressed pretty steadily and was nicely on track late in the season, I'm not too worried about him. After all, he was a national champion in college and he played in the SEC. He wasn't some UDFA who may or may not be a flash in the pan.

[ArmchairRedskin]

The more Cowboys fans want us to concede, the less I feel inclined to do so. Anybody with me on that?

[bubba9497]

It never ends. Skins fans just hate conceding anything for the Cowboys.

:nono: you got it backwards

Poke fans never think they are wrong, no matter what

[bubba9497]

The more Cowboys fans want us to concede, the less I feel inclined to do so. Anybody with me on that?


I'll admit when I'm wrong, too bad they won't :(

[ArmchairRedskin]

I can admit I'm wrong. I'm just not likely to be moved by the constant cries to do so.

[DWinzit]

The more Cowboys fans want us to concede, the less I feel inclined to do so. Anybody with me on that?Why would you concede to something you believe and know?

[ArmchairRedskin]

Why would you concede to something you believe and know?



oops. Misread.


Exactly! :laugh:

[tr1]

Not to throw a turd into the punch bowl for puke fans, but, Dallas nation was very worried about Romo's performance the week BEFORE the Seattle game.

Dallas' season also ended in disappointment, as it too lost three of four, failing to cash in on an opportunity for a first-round bye. The Cowboys got crushed by NFC South champion New Orleans 42-17 on Dec. 10, and with a chance to still win the NFC East title last Sunday, they lost 39-31 at home to lowly Detroit.

"We haven't been playing well of late, but it's a new season," Terrell Owens said. "We have one game. Once we win that, we can keep going."

Dallas lost to eventual NFC East champion Philadelphia 23-7 on Christmas Day, and Sunday's loss to the Lions gave the team consecutive losses for the first time all season.

The Cowboys defense has given up 132 points in the last four games, the exact amount it gave up over the previous eight games.

"I can't tell you how disappointed I am. I really can't," coach Bill Parcells said after the Week 17 loss. "This is the low point for me in a long time."

While the Dallas defense is struggling, the NFL's No. 6 team in total offense (6,003 yards) and No. 4 team in scoring offense (26.6 points per game) is looking shaky behind Pro Bowl quarterback Tony Romo.

Romo lost two fumbles, threw an interception and was sacked a season-high four times on Sunday, and has not been able to provide the same spark he brought to the team when he became the starting quarterback in Week 8.

The Cowboys went 4-1 under Romo in his first five starts, completing 71.2 percent of his passes for 1,394 yards, 10 touchdowns and two interceptions for a 115.8 quarterback rating. His last five games have been a letdown, though, as he's completed 60.5 percent for 1,247 yards, six TDs and eight interceptions for a 77.1 QB rating, while leading Dallas to just two wins.

"We are definitely going in backwards from the way we wanted to," Romo said. "We may not scare anyone right now. We win a game or two and that will change.

"This story won't be written about the last two games. It will be written about what happens from here on. We have a chance to do something special."

Julius Jones finished the regular season with 1,084 rushing yards for his first 1,000-yard season, but had only 91 yards and no touchdowns in 33 attempts over his last three games.

Jones had a career day in his only game against the Seahawks, though, rushing for career highs of 198 yards and three TDs in the Cowboys' 43-39 win on Dec. 6, 2004.

Dallas has lost three of four games against Seattle since 2001, including a 13-10 defeat at Qwest Field on Oct. 23 of last season. The teams have never met in the playoffs.

The Cowboys have not won a playoff game since 1996, losing in the wild-card round in their last three trips to the postseason.

Playing away from home may serve as an advantage for Dallas, which finished the regular season winning its final three road games. The team had a better road record (5-3) than home record (4-4) for the first time since 1989, when it was 1-7 and 0-8, respectively.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/preview?gid=20070106026


To mention Romo in the same sentence as Brady, Farve or Manning is utterly ridiculous.

Puke fans should be wary of the Romo bandwagon.

[TonyRomoProBowl]

That's one way not to answer... ;)

?

What was i suppose to answer? I have said it a thousand times if not more (sarcasim)....that Romo when comparred to JC in games VS common opponents is better, but not in a whole other level as some would say...I agree with Bubba, and always have. And thats what I stick by...

better is better....and Romo > Campbell....

[TonyRomoProBowl]

Jason Campbell had a much better 2nd NFL season than Tony Romo. I'll wager any amount that his 3rd will be better and more than likely his 4th. In 18 months we'll know how Campbell's 4th season compares to Romo's. Unfortunately, it will probably be another 30 months (that's December, 2009) until we find out how Campbell does in his 4th season in the same offensive system.

Thats just stupid....sorry but it is.......Romo sat and learned and took a different route to the field then Cambell did.....Campbell was a first round pick and "should" be on the field by year 2 at the very least...and "if" Brunell was healthy, Campbell would have had to wait till atleast year 3. Campbell did not go into his second season as a starter, and as a first round pick he should have. I cant wait till Brunnell has a great pre-season and Gibbs starts to ponder the question....does Mark Brunnell give us a better shot to "win now"?......oh my, would that be great or what.

[TonyRomoProBowl]

:nono: you got it backwards

Poke fans never think they are wrong, no matter what

ok, someone is not paying attention in class.....i have admitted wrong (when applicable) and i am a Cowboys fan....

but in this thread, Skins fans say "we never said Campbell is better then Romo"...then when Cowboiy fan says Romo is better then Campbell its "well its too early to tell and Campbell has a brighter future and more upside...bla bla...."

Westy nailed it, you say enough to make it an argument, then say i didnt "say that".......whatever, you guys know in your heart that Romo > Campbell...and thats all that matters.

[TonyRomoProBowl]

I'll admit when I'm wrong, too bad they won't :(

who is "they"....and just so i know, what have i been wrong about that i have not admitted to? oh and i am still waiting from a thread a week ago for you to show my the proof that i am completly biased and un-objective......you said that you had proof of it.....but when asked to produce, you didnt.

[ArmchairRedskin]

ok, someone is not paying attention in class.....i have admitted wrong (when applicable) and i am a Cowboys fan....

but in this thread, Skins fans say "we never said Campbell is better then Romo"...then when Cowboiy fan says Romo is better then Campbell its "well its too early to tell and Campbell has a brighter future and more upside...bla bla...."

Westy nailed it, you say enough to make it an argument, then say i didnt "say that".......whatever, you guys know in your heart that Romo > Campbell...and thats all that matters.



The only thing I know is Romo's first 7 games were better statistically than Campbell's. Beyond that, well we'll soon find out. We can talk more in depth next offseason. I know you aren't looking forward to that, because in your heart, you know Romo won't be able to post the same kind of numbers.

[bubba9497]

Thats just stupid....sorry but it is.......Romo sat and learned and took a different route to the field then Cambell did.....Campbell was a first round pick and "should" be on the field by year 2 at the very least...and "if" Brunell was healthy, Campbell would have had to wait till atleast year 3. Campbell did not go into his second season as a starter, and as a first round pick he should have. I cant wait till Brunnell has a great pre-season and Gibbs starts to ponder the question....does Mark Brunnell give us a better shot to "win now"?......oh my, would that be great or what.


no ore stupid than claiming Romo is superior to Campbell based largely on more games he played against teams Campbell never played against

[DWinzit]

Not to throw a turd into the punch bowl for puke fans, :rotflmao: I am currently cleaning coffee off my monitor!

[bubba9497]

ok, someone is not paying attention in class.....i have admitted wrong (when applicable) and i am a Cowboys fan.....

yeah you represent the entire Poke Nation :rolleyes:, and I haven't seen anything you have admitted to being wrong. and There is no way to post every single Poke Fan that does it, or post poke fan exemptions in the heat of battle.

I mean seriously most of this stuff is just back and forth upmanship, and posting a response like this as if you were offended or harmed in some way, when you weren't directly named or quoted is a bit much don't you think?

And if you had been paying attention, you would have seen I was replying to an absurd remark by THE, that the Skin Fans won't conceed anything




but in this thread, Skins fans say "we never said Campbell is better then Romo"...then when Cowboiy fan says Romo is better then Campbell its "well its too early to tell and Campbell has a brighter future and more upside...bla bla....".....

a huge generalaztion of the truth, You are acting like ever post in a thread is like that, or every Poke fan response has been like yours... which it hasn't by a long shot. The entire Romo vs Campbell comparion was started by Poke fans (as is the general sistuation when cornered about some remark they made about th poke player or team)

and in the arguments, with much regualarity, My words are twisted or changed to make it sound I said something completely different... half of my posts are correcting these childish manivors

and though you might think that every POKE fan says the same as you, the truth is that doesn't happen.



Westy nailed it, you say enough to make it an argument, then say i didnt "say that".......


Westy? :laugh:

he is the same guy who after I had been ill and in the hospital, called me a liar and accused me of hiding and not posting to get out of sig bet, even though I had never done anything like that before, never been of the board more than a day except one other time (also in the hospital) and had posted several times for three days with his stupid sig before I took ill....

half of his time spent here is to find some way to haras me, no matter how big a fabrication it takes to do it ..... Bubba envy :silly:

NO One takes anything Westy say seriously... ever

and again that comment is a stretch of the truth :laugh:

you know I am still waiting for several posters who have made claims against me to provide some proof, or a quote saying what I was accused of saying... yet no one ever does



whatever, you guys know in your heart that Romo > Campbell...and thats all that matters.

now look who is making generalization, and trying to speak for others :rolleyes:

[TonyRomoProBowl]

The only thing I know is Romo's first 7 games were better statistically than Campbell's. Beyond that, well we'll soon find out. We can talk more in depth next offseason. I know you aren't looking forward to that, because in your heart, you know Romo won't be able to post the same kind of numbers.


No, I know in my heart, that the Cowboys have a better offense, and that Romo will definitly finish the season where he started, which is better then Campbell.

[TonyRomoProBowl]

no ore stupid than claiming Romo is superior to Campbell based largely on more games he played against teams Campbell never played against

ok, but who is saying that. We allowed for the comparrision between the two vs common opponents. And Romo is still better. Take away the games Romo had vs teams Campbell didnt play, thats fine, but you agree that when comparred vs common opponents, Romo is better.

[TonyRomoProBowl]

yeah you represent the entire Poke Nation :rolleyes:, and I haven't seen anything you have admitted to being wrong. and There is no way to poke every single Poke Fan that does it, or post poke fan exemptions in the heat of battle.

I mean seriously most of this stuff is just back and forth upmanship, and posting a response like this as if you were offended or harmed in some way, when you weren't directly named or quoted is a bit much don't you think?

And if you had been paying attention, you would have seen I was replying to an absurd remark by THE, that the Skin Fans won't conceed anything





a huge generalaztion of the truth, You are acting like ever post in a thread is like that, or every Poke fan response has been like yours... which it hasn't by a long shot. The entire Romo vs Campbell comparion was started by Poke fans (as is the general sistuation when cornered about some remark they made about th poke player or team)

and in the arguments, with much regualarity, My words are twisted or changed to make it sound I said something completely different... half of my posts are correcting these childish manivors

and though you might think that every POKE fan says the same as you, the truth is that doesn't happen.




half of his time spent here is to find some way to haras me, no matter how big a fabrication it takes to do it ..... Bubba envy :silly:

NO One takes anything Westy say seriously... ever

and again that comment is a stretch of the truth :laugh:

you know I am still waiting for several posters who have made claims against me to provide some proof, or a quote saying what I was accused of saying... yet no one ever does




now look who is making generalization, and trying to speak for others :rolleyes:


fair enough Bubba, not all fans are alike....so i ask you, when comparred vs common opponents, who is better, Romo or Campbell? Not upside, potential or who will be better. Who is better, when comparred?

[bubba9497]

who is "they"....and just so i know, what have i been wrong about that i have not admitted to? oh and i am still waiting from a thread a week ago for you to show my the proof that i am completly biased and un-objective......you said that you had proof of it.....but when asked to produce, you didnt.



"The Pokes are better than the Skins at every position",comment and you were called on it by I believe ArmChair, Jrock, and Cali007


and several other comments, such as saying that Skins fans know Romo > Campbell in their hearts

again, spare me the personal insult when I or anyone post "poke fans" in general.. why their my a few exceptions it usually a fair assesment of the group as a whole... unless you are specifically mentioned or quoted. and you know who is in that group and who is not... and it is impossible to list everyone

I assume you never do that? Never refer to Skin fans or eagle fans or Giant fans as a group, even when one or more people in the thread might not exactly fit the group?


right :thumbsup:

[bubba9497]

No, I know in my heart, that the Cowboys have a better offense, and that Romo will definitly finish the season where he started, which is better then Campbell.

and your 100% unbiased :)

[bubba9497]

ok, but who is saying that. We allowed for the comparrision between the two vs common opponents. And Romo is still better. Take away the games Romo had vs teams Campbell didnt play, thats fine, but you agree that when comparred vs common opponents, Romo is better.


I agreed he was better in two of 5 games

I agree that Romo had a better comp.% overall, and a better QBR of 12 when all the games where averaged, but I say Campbell had the better int% and Int to TD ratio, fewer sacks, and fumbles.

Romo is the better scrambler, Campbell has the stronger arm

I agree that it is too early to say where either QB is better than the other at this point, but disagree than Romo is "a whole other level" better than Campbell which was, and has been the point of my argument throughout

[THEHEREAFTER]

:nono: you got it backwards

Poke fans never think they are wrong, no matter what

So this doesn't apply to you Bubba?

[bubba9497]

fair enough Bubba, not all fans are alike....so i ask you, when comparred vs common opponents, who is better, Romo or Campbell? Not upside, potential or who will be better. Who is better, when comparred?


and I have answered

time and time again, too early to say


but the facts prove that Romo is not clearly "a whole level better" than Campbell again, which was, is, and has been the point of the argument

why is that so difficult to grasp?

I have never tried to prove Campbell was beter or Romo was worse, just that obsurd notion of Romo's superiority overall as a QB

[THEHEREAFTER]

I agree that it is too early to say where either QB is better than the other at this point, but disagree than Romo is "a whole other level" better than Campbell which was, and has been the point of my argument throughout


Once again, twisting the argument. Just about every Cowboy regular here has stated that we have to wait and see who turns out to be better. Better is a definitive statement which we cannot make at this time. All we're saying is that he undoubtedly had a better SEASON in 2006 and played at a much higher level COLLECTIVELY. You've been fighting this basic analysis for 3 months now.

[TonyRomoProBowl]

"The Pokes are better than the Skins at every position",comment and you were called on it by I believe ArmChair, Jrock, and Cali007

What i believe you are refering to, is the time that i admitted that I was wrong, in the way i was trying to get a point across...i was attempting to say that Dallas has a better 53 man roster (when comparring all the players)...not that they had better players at each position. I phrased it "better roster head to toe"...and that was wrong. I already covered that.....Like i said, when i am wrong, i admitt it...and the way i phrased that statement, i was 100% wrong.

and several other comments, such as saying that Skins fans know Romo > Campbell in their hearts

Ok, let me rephrase some skins fans have admitted, therefore know that Romo > Campbell....... Thats not being biased, when asked how they (some skin fans in the thread) can think Campbell is better then Romo? they (some Skins fans in the thread) say "we never said that".....

again, spare me the personal insult when I or anyone post "poke fans" in general.. why their my a few exceptions it usually a fair assesment of the group as a whole... unless you are specifically mentioned or quoted. and you know who is in that group and who is not... and it is impossible to list everyone

I assume you never do that? Never refer to Skin fans or eagle fans or Giant fans as a group, even when one or more people in the thread might not exactly fit the group?


right :thumbsup:

Well I have done that, and i am going to make an effort to stop (Generalizing all skins fans)

When did i personally insult you? and if i did, then let me just say, i am sorry.

[Birdlives]

No, I know in my heart, that the Cowboys have a better offense, and that Romo will definitly finish the season where he started, which is better then Campbell.

Once again, twisting the argument. Just about every Cowboy regular here has stated that we have to wait and see who turns out to be better. Better is a definitive statement which we cannot make at this time. All we're saying is that he undoubtedly had a better SEASON in 2006 and played at a much higher level COLLECTIVELY. You've been fighting this basic analysis for 3 months now.

I know you said JUST ABOUT, but it's still funny to see this in the same thread.

[Birdlives]

Ok, let me rephrase some skins fans have admitted, therefore know that Romo > Campbell....... Thats not being biased, when asked how they (some skin fans in the thread) can think Campbell is better then Romo? they (some Skins fans in the thread) say "we never said that".....


For the record Tonyromoprobowl I think you've taken a point, slightly twisted it and run. I haven't seen anyone in the thick of the conversation on the Skins side say Romo is better than Campbell or vice versa, only that it's a wait and see situation.

Some have admitted that Romo did better last year statistically speaking but that's very different than saying one is better than the other. Especially since it's hedged by the wait and see approach. But hey, if it makes you feel better....

[TonyRomoProBowl]

I know you said JUST ABOUT, but it's still funny to see this in the same thread.

out of context ...i was giving reason why I think Romo will "continue" to be better then JC next season....

I havwe said that its very early in both of Romo and JC's career and that they both have a lot to prove. Right now, Romo is better. I gave a reason to why i think he will be better again after this season is over......

[TonyRomoProBowl]

For the record Tonyromoprobowl I think you've taken a point, slightly twisted it and run. I haven't seen anyone in the thick of the conversation on the Skins side say Romo is better than Campbell or vice versa, only that it's a wait and see situation.

Some have admitted that Romo did better last year statistically speaking but that's very different than saying one is better than the other. Especially since it's hedged by the wait and see approach. But hey, if it makes you feel better....

ok Bird, lets just say, you have to answer this question. You cannot give the "too early to tell" or "wait and see" answer

......your a sports writter or a columnist that is paid for his opinion, and you are writing an article that is comparring the Washington Redskins to the Dallas Cowboys....it comes to the QB, and you have to make a choice. Who do you rate higher going into the season? You have Tony Romo and his 11 games, and you have JC and his 7.....no one is going to approve your article if it says" too early to tell" or " wait and see"...your editor or boss wants you to put it on paper and run with it...what is your choice?

[ouvan59]

Ouvan59 this is pretty clever and brilliant. I'm surprised Bubba hasn't come up with this one earlier. More ducking and game playing. Romo was an UDFA who sat the bench and awaited his opportunity. He prevailed against great odds. How many UDFA QB's go to the pro-bowl. JC was a first rounder so their opportunities were different. All we can do is wait and see how they turn out.

Waiting for his opportunity??? When was his opportunity? Wasn't his opportunity when they released Quinthy? Wasn't it his opportunity when they released Vinny? Why did Dallas feel they needed to bring in stiff after stiff after stiff when they had the answer on the roster all along? After the first year it doesn't matter how Romo was acquired. He is just a guy on the roster playing a position that should be judged on his merits.

And who the heck is ducking and game playing? You seriously don't think there is a massive advantage for a 4th year QB who is in his 4th year in a system versus a 2nd year QB who is in his first year in a system? I know you guys are completely in defensive mode about Romo but you can't be that stupid. This point has been brought up often and you always brush it off because it actually points out that Campbell was pretty good last year under the circumstances. In fact, since you guys are so high on QB rating, Campbell had a higher QB rating in his 2nd year than the guy who started ahead of Romo in his 2nd year and he was getting better as the year went along.

[bubba9497]

Once again, twisting the argument. Just about every Cowboy regular here has stated that we have to wait and see who turns out to be better. Better is a definitive statement which we cannot make at this time. All we're saying is that he undoubtedly had a better SEASON in 2006 and played at a much higher level COLLECTIVELY. You've been fighting this basic analysis for 3 months now.


and my point has been you can't compare COLLECTIVELY when one of the two naver had the oppurtunity to test his skills against those teams

that exactly the point that started all of this Romo vs Campbell debate in many threads

if I am not mistaken, it was you I took exception with stating that very comment, that Romo played on a whole other level than Campbell

and no Poke fans did not as a whole say it is a wait and see type comment, and many still don't, and even know you are still saying the exact same thing as I contested in the first place.


so how can I be twisting what you are saying, when you are saying exactly the same again? :whoknows:

[bubba9497]

So this doesn't apply to you Bubba?

no not in the least

ask BigDFan, I have admitted being wrong and apologized to him just the other day

when was the last time you admitted it when proven wrong?

[Birdlives]

ok Bird, lets just say, you have to answer this question. You cannot give the "too early to tell" or "wait and see" answer

......your a sports writter or a columnist that is paid for his opinion, and you are writing an article that is comparring the Washington Redskins to the Dallas Cowboys....it comes to the QB, and you have to make a choice. Who do you rate higher going into the season? You have Tony Romo and his 11 games, and you have JC and his 7.....no one is going to approve your article if it says" too early to tell" or " wait and see"...your editor or boss wants you to put it on paper and run with it...what is your choice?

Sorry but you're lawyering now. You expect a yes or no answer to a very complex question. I wont be cornered because you feel like playing. How about you answer your own questions and I'll continue to do what I always have.

My answer would be to write the analysis and say it's too early to tell. You want to take that away, but I dont see the gun to my head so if I'm going to be honest and answer honestly, I'd say it's too early to tell. I think my editor would appreciate the fact that I'm smart enough to know that, guess what, I'TS TOO EARLY TO TELL!

[bubba9497]

Ouvan59 this is pretty clever and brilliant. I'm surprised Bubba hasn't come up with this one earlier. More ducking and game playing. Romo was an UDFA who sat the bench and awaited his opportunity. He prevailed against great odds. How many UDFA QB's go to the pro-bowl. JC was a first rounder so their opportunities were different. All we can do is wait and see how they turn out.

are you for ****ing real?

ducking what exactly? and what about my comments to you were games?

I am really tired of these childish accusations, and superior attitude

there is no "games" at all about my comments, and as much as I would like to claim them to be original, they are not several "experts" have expressed as much of the past few months. But one was Parcells, talking about why he slumped, saying he was over confident, and when he first started he was getting by with stuff because he wasn't under any pressure, and still too green to realize he shouldn't be doing those things... and that things will catch up to him as the did.....

and don't ask me to quote others, because I couldn't find them or link to TV or Radio broadcasts, just mental notations


After making your comments about me playing games you then follow up with this ridiculously over the top statement.. "He prevailed against great odds"

:laugh: was he missing an arm or leg? :rolleyes:

the fact you are oblivious to your extreme homerism is amazing, and the sad part is I know you actually believe that to be true.... but if anyone else said it about their team, you would be one of the first to question them over it

before you keep pointing fingers at others, you should look in the mirror at yourself some

look for pot calling kettle black-itis

[TonyRomoProBowl]

Sorry but you're lawyering now. You expect a yes or no answer to a very complex question. I wont be cornered because you feel like playing. How about you answer your own questions and I'll continue to do what I always have.

My answer would be to write the analysis and say it's too early to tell. You want to take that away, but I dont see the gun to my head so if I'm going to be honest and answer honestly, I'd say it's too early to tell. I think my editor would appreciate the fact that I'm smart enough to know that, guess what, I'TS TOO EARLY TO TELL!

Ok, if your editor likes his writers to be afraid to take a stance, then by all means do so.......Some get paid to make that choice...thats all i was sayin....

Its too early to tell how their carrers will be comparred, but we are just simply talking about 'going into the season"

[bubba9497]

"He prevailed against great odds"


BTW thanks foor proving my point about no expectation for Romo too succeed...ie no pressure :)

[tr1]

Just about every Cowboy regular here has stated that we have to wait and see who turns out to be better.


I must have been on a different message board... :doh:

[ArmchairRedskin]

No, I know in my heart, that the Cowboys have a better offense, and that Romo will definitly finish the season where he started, which is better then Campbell.




Romo finished the season with a fumble :laugh:

If that's what you're looking forward to then be my guest. :)

He was also inconsistent (very much so in fact) and lost 3 out of four games with playoffs on the line. He choked in Detroit and he choked as ball holder.

How would you guage one guy being better than the other? Rating? TD's? INT's? Purely statistical or maybe do you put more weight into things like clutch performances? I mean if one guy has better statistics, but the other guy goes to the playoffs and throws more TD's than INT's and no fumbles, which guy is better in your eyes? I want some clarification on this from you.

[bubba9497]

Romo finished the season with a fumble :laugh:

If that's what you're looking forward to then be my guest. :)

He was also inconsistent (very much so in fact) and lost 3 out of four games with playoffs on the line. He choked in Detroit and he choked as ball holder.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/bubba9497/TV2007061219493000.jpg

[Birdlives]

Ok, if your editor likes his writers to be afraid to take a stance, then by all means do so.......Some get paid to make that choice...thats all i was sayin....

Its too early to tell how their carrers will be comparred, but we are just simply talking about 'going into the season"

What editor are you referring to? Have you gone completely loopy? It's just too early to tell who is and who will be better that's all there is to it. Why should I answer a question I dont know the answer to? You want my best guess, is that it? Sorry, but not enough information. If you choose to answer the question that's your perrogative to do so just like it's mine to go with what I know, which is only a fool answers a question without the proper information.

[bubba9497]

What editor are you referring to? Have you gone completely loopy? It's just too early to tell who is and who will be better that's all there is to it. Why should I answer a question I dont know the answer to? You want my best guess, is that it? Sorry, but not enough information. If you choose to answer the question that's your perrogative to do so just like it's mine to go with what I know, which is only a fool answers a question without the proper information.


you know that hypothetical editor in TRPB question, I would tell him to hypothetically kiss my ass