Vick indicted on felony charges (superdupermegamerge)

[turbodiesel#44]

CNN just reported Vick has been indited on felony charges in regards to the dogfighting at his property. Maybe Goodell says he will not be suspended for a first offense, but he will have trouble scrambling from his cell.

[TheDoyler23]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2940065

Michael Vick has been indicted by a federal grand jury in connection with the dogfighting probe of his house in Virginia.

The Falcons quarterback was indicted for conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and to sponsor a dog in animal fighting venture in U.S. District Court for the Eastern District in Richmond, Va. Three others -- Purnell Peace, Quanis Phillips and Tony Taylor -- also were indicted by the grand jury on the same charges.

[McMetal]

Way to represent, Richmond! Throw the book at him!

Let the circus commence...

[Santana Clause]

Good I hope he goes to jail. He deserves it...it will also make it easier for the Redskins to make the playoffs as a wildcard.

[SHYSTER411]

I wasn't sure that this would ever really happen. Craaaazzzyyy.

[skins4me58203]

This won't go to to trial for another year. He plays this year.....

[The Nations Team]

I wonder if he will miss any games this year?

[turbodiesel#44]

This won't go to to trial for another year. He plays this year.....

With his money, it may be 2 years. I'm sure his counsel will try to schedule it around the season too.

[CM916]

Good news for Culpepper or Joey Harrington.

[laxpck]

Whats up now Doooggggg?


Michael Vick has reportedly been indicted by a federal grand jury for his role in a dog-fighting operation on his property in Virginia.

On the same day Daunte Culpepper is released. Vick is accused of conspiring to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and sponsoring a dog in animal fighting. Its hard to gauge the NFL's immediate reaction here, but commissioner Roger Goodell can certainly suspend Vick if he chooses before the criminal system has run its course. We suspect he'll let the Falcons know where Vick stands sooner than later. Jul. 17 - 5:19 pm et

[OWUeagleMD]

As the cliche goes, you could indict a ham sandwhich if you chose. This may be a precursor to a punishable offense, but as of now, Vick's standing with the NFL shouldn't change.

[Jofizz]

I bet they wish they still had Matt Schaub!

Tough luck for Vick.

[#98QBKiller]

****. I just saw this and sure enough it was already posted on ES...beat me to it!!

[ABQCOWBOY]

Rico..........

[ThePreciating]

Atlanta, meet Daunte Culpepper.

[D-Day]

I think he will play the year, I don't think he should be suspended yet either. Like the previous poster said, anyone can be indicted. Should make years offseason very interesting in ATL.

[Ingtar]

If he was indicted they have something. The Feds are usually very picky about that. I think their conviction rate is over 95%. Plus I think they would be extra careful knowing the type of media frenzy this will create. They wouldn't do this unless they have enough dirt to fill his grave.

[Dead Money]

Culpepper will sign with Atlanta byu the end of the week. Money in the bank.

[DWinzit]

He's innocent I tells ya!

http://www.profootballtalk.com/GeraldCochran.jpg



Gerald Poindexter explains, "If the collar doesn't fit, you must acquit."

[Corcaigh]

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/images/07/17/peace.phillips.taylor.vick.07.17.07.pdf

Some specific claims in there. Looks like Atlanta needs a new QB.

[IONTOP]

Since this is a tailgate thread, I have to say, it's his dogs, it's his property, let the man do what he wants...

[SkinsOrlando]

I always thought IONTOP was really Clinton Portis.

[Corcaigh]

Since this is a tailgate thread, I have to say, it's his dogs, it's his property, let the man do what he wants...

At least he didn't allow them to disrupt the Tour De France.

[jbooma]

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/images/07/17/peace.phillips.taylor.vick.07.17.07.pdf

Some specific claims in there. Looks like Atlanta needs a new QB.

they don't have Ron Mexico anymore :laugh: :laugh:

[MissU28]

Since this is a tailgate thread, I have to say, it's his dogs, it's his property, let the man do what he wants...


let him kill dogs???? So dogs should have no right to live and not be bred to fight or kill??

[Jofizz]

It's already being discussed in ATN. Come on now, this is ES, where the news stories are on here before they break anywhere else :laugh:.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203299

[jrockster21]

let him kill dogs???? So dogs should have no right to live and not be bred to fight or kill??

It was a joke, babe. :laugh:

I have to say in all seriousness - thank you little 6 lb. 8 oz. baby Jesus for getting him what he deserves. Sounded like he was going to get off scott free. :) A federal indictment has to come with at least an 8 game suspension, I would think.

[Corcaigh]

It's already being discussed in ATN. Come on now, this is ES, where the news stories are on here before they break anywhere else :laugh:.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203299

Maybe the Tailgate can add a different flavor. :)

[IONTOP]

let him kill dogs???? So dogs should have no right to live and not be bred to fight or kill??

No, I just meant that he hasn't been CHARGED with anything yet... I mean he's only been indicted by a grand jury... I mean don't villify the man until you've got the "beyond a shadow of a doubt"....

I actually had a lengthy conversation with a dog, and here's what I learned...

Sandpaper is not smooth
A roof is over my head
Given the choice of being a chiuaua in Beverly Hills or a Pitt Bull in a rough inner city neighborhood who has to kill his own to survive, the dog adamantly said: "Rough"

Dogs would rather be in that situation...

[Corcaigh]

If he was indicted they have something. The Feds are usually very picky about that. I think their conviction rate is over 95%. Plus I think they would be extra careful knowing the type of media frenzy this will create. They wouldn't do this unless they have enough dirt to fill his grave.

There are very specific statements in the indictment, including actions and dates. Mr Vick is in some trouble.

[jrockster21]

This won't go to to trial for another year. He plays this year.....

With his money, it may be 2 years. I'm sure his counsel will try to schedule it around the season too.


Not in the new NFL era under Kaiser Goodell. A federal indictment is enough for a suspension, I'm sure. Maybe Vick will get off easy because he's the face of the NFL? I dunno...but I am willing to bet he misses some games this year.

[jbooma]

No, I just meant that he hasn't been CHARGED with anything yet... I mean he's only been indicted by a grand jury... I mean don't villify the man until you've got the "beyond a shadow of a doubt"....

True but to even be able to get indicted on this type of charge you have to have some good evidence. It looks like this could be the end of the Mike Vick we know.

[Jofizz]

Maybe the Tailgate can add a different flavor. :)

That's actually not a bad idea. Sometimes the stadium crowd is unbearable.

[michael_33]

Anyone know where I can get tickets to the Cons (mean machine) vs the Guards game in the next couple of years?

Damn......The cons are in trouble....They still don't have a QB...HAHAHAHA

[PleaseBlitz]

As the cliche goes, you could indict a ham sandwhich if you chose. This may be a precursor to a punishable offense, but as of now, Vick's standing with the NFL shouldn't change.

Goodell has suspened others without so much as an indictment.

[PleaseBlitz]

Also, dealing Schaub looks galactically dumb right now.

[turbodiesel#44]

He's innocent I tells ya!



http://www.profootballtalk.com/GeraldCochran.jpg




Gerald Poindexter explains, "If the collar doesn't fit, you must acquit."





:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: good one!

[Spartacus87]

Not in the new NFL era under Kaiser Goodell. A federal indictment is enough for a suspension, I'm sure. Maybe Vick will get off easy because he's the face of the NFL? I dunno...but I am willing to bet he misses some games this year. Vick is hardly the "face of the NFL." This ain't Peyton, LT, or Tom Brady, this is a guy that pretty much everyone has been suspecting would face some serious heat for this for awhile now and has more than a few other minor problems and criticisms in recent times. Vick's nowhere near safe.

Like others have said though, this doesn't mean too much just yet. I'm not sure Goodell will do anything yet, I think he'll wait until things become more concrete. I think the Falcons are going to start looking around at options though.

[turbodiesel#44]

Not in the new NFL era under Kaiser Goodell. A federal indictment is enough for a suspension, I'm sure. Maybe Vick will get off easy because he's the face of the NFL? I dunno...but I am willing to bet he misses some games this year.

Not sure Vick is the face of the NFL, but Ron Mexico IS the face of genital herpes. Wonder how the Federal Prison System is going to deal with that?

[skinsn24]

Not sure Vick is the face of the NFL, but Ron Mexico IS the face of genital herpes. Wonder how the Federal Prison System is going to deal with that?

My first post in forever, but that was hilarious:cheers:

[Hooper]

Those charges... I mean, technically he could be facing 20 years.

[Killerbo]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

POSTED 5:29 p.m. EDT; LAST UPDATED 6:38 p.m. EDT, July 17, 2007


VICK IS INDICTED

Falcons quarterback Mike Vick has been indicted (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2940065) on multiple charges by a federal grand jury in Virginia.

The charges are, per ESPN.com (which not long ago declared Vick was unlikely to be indicted), "conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and to sponsor a dog in animal fighting venture."
Three others were indicted as well -- Purnell Peace, Quanis Phillips and Tony Taylor. Phillips' name appeared as a contact person on Vick's K-9 Kennels web site.


The indictment is available on the web site of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. A press release regarding the charges is available here (http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/images/07/17/peace.phillips.taylor.vick.07.17.07.pdf).
There is only one count, for now -- conspiracy. In order to be guilty of conspiracy, the government doesn't have to prove that the defendants committed the underlying illegal acts, but only that they intended to do so, and that they accomplished one or more overt acts in order to reach their goals.

Click link above to read rest of article


But the most damning accusation....


The most graphic misconduct allegedly occurred not long before the first search of the property. According to paragraph 83 of the indictment, Vick, Peace, and Phillips executed in April 2007 approximately eight dogs that did not perform well in "testing" sessions, by "hanging, drowning, and slamming at least one dog's body to the ground."

In other words, in the same month in which Vick declared that he never goes to his Surry County property, and the same month in which he sat face-to-face with the Commissioner, Vick had (according to the indictment) participated in the killing of as many as eight dogs deemed unfit for fighting.

So what next? After digesting this information, the NFL (http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm#) and the Falcons will have some tough decisions to make. And we think that both organizations will soon be facing strenuous pressure from animal rights groups to take swift and decisive action against Mr. Vick



All I can say is wow....:doh:

[Hooper]

Someone should be "inidited" on spelling charges.

[dreamshatterer]

He is no longer the face of the NFL. One of the new face of the NFL has a crap load of endorsment deals and his been on SNL. Peyton Manning.

[Koolblue13]

It was a joke, babe. :laugh:

I have to say in all seriousness - thank you little 6 lb. 8 oz. baby Jesus for getting him what he deserves. Sounded like he was going to get off scott free. :) A federal indictment has to come with at least an 8 game suspension, I would think.I like the christmas jesus.

What a scumbag, bye bye Vick. I thought he was going to slide.

[Redshu]

I'm watching this right now on ESPN, but they have it worded in the indictment the he and another man once wet a dog down and electrocuted it.
In another incident, he and this same accomplice destroyed 8 dogs by various methods, hanging, drowning, and slamming the dogs body into the ground.

For the love of God, I hope this man ends up in jail giving herpes to dudes that don't give a ****. Can you imagine? What type of sociopathic piece of **** does this to an animal knows nothing of cruelty and that asks for nothing in return but your approval.

I hope he reaps the whirlwind. Reap it Vick.

[turbodiesel#44]

Portis, PLEASE, just don't say anything!!!

[Shadowplay]

So what song should teams play at their home stadiums to get into his head? Assuming that he plays another game in the league?

The obvious one that comes to mind is "Who Let the Dogs Out?" right?? :)

[Hooper]

It's okay. I'm sure Joey Harrington will light it up for the Falcons.

[turbodiesel#44]

Someone should be "inidited" on spelling charges.

You are correct sir, and I offer my apologies with the correction! HTTR

[Hooper]

And I apologize for being a jerk about it.

[Chachie]

"Please be seated. This court will now commence on the case of the United States vs. Ron Mexico."

[Smurf85]

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i140/Roylp/bewareofvick.jpg

[Hooper]

The Falcons are in a real bind here. Wait, they could always sign his brother to step in at qb. Compared to Ron Mexico, he's not looking so bad anymore.

[WVUforREDSKINS]

I just heard that the dogs who lost the fights where electricuted, beaten to death, or drowned.


Truly sickening!!!


I don't know how much power PETA has but they will be all over this like white on rice.


:falconsuc

[1028046]

I think he will play the year, I don't think he should be suspended yet either. Like the previous poster said, anyone can be indicted. Should make years offseason very interesting in ATL.

No actually not just anybody can de indicted the feds have to have evidence against you before they will indict

Saying that anybody can be indicted is just not true

[JCav06]

I just heard some of the allegations on NFL Live. If they're true, that's incredibly disturbing and sick. lock all of the sickos up (if it's true).

[Hooper]

This is what happens when people let you get away with stuff for far too long. You become a real piece of crap.

[Rafterman]

They released A LOT of details, which tells me that the feds flipped somebody on the inside.

If that's the case, say GOODNIGHT Ron.

[megared]

How'd it go from him being 'not likely to be indicted' to the indictment dropping?

We already know they have informants...but is that really what they're going to base the case on?

I predict he'll get a deal from the prosecution: plead guilty to a lesser charge, & only will have to pay a fine (no jailtime). That way the FEDs keep their tidy conviction record, and Vick is punished. I wouldn't be surprised if he got 4 games from Goodell.

[spjunkies]

Nice way to throw away a career.

Sad

[ouvan59]

It's okay. I'm sure Joey Harrington will light it up for the Falcons.

Not without QB guru Jason Garrett he won't. 68.2 :excited:

[Hooper]

Lenny P says Jeff George is still available.

[SonnyRules]

Atlanta, meet Daunte Culpepper.
Ding, Ding, Ding.....we have a winner.

[RFK Lives]

Bye bye sponsors and everything else. We should have known when the Ron Mexico story leaked out that this guy is bad news. Maybe his little brother can talk some sense to him...oh wait a second.
That is if he is proven guilty. If his lawyer can get a change of venue to California, he just might skate and then star in a Naked Gun sequel.

[turbodiesel#44]

Bye bye sponsors and everything else. We should have known when the Ron Mexico story leaked out that this guy is bad news. Maybe his little brother can talk some sense to him...oh wait a second.
That is if he is proven guilty. If his lawyer can get a change of venue to California, he just might skate and then star in a Naked Gun sequel.

Um, no. In CA, animal cruelty is a far worse crime than mass murder.

[RFK Lives]

Um, no. In CA, animal cruelty is a far worse crime than mass murder.
Good point turbo.
I guess I should not convict but for the Feds to hand down an indictment? There has be some fire with that smoke.

[turbodiesel#44]

It will be interesting to see what Nike and ES Sports has to say about this.

[RedskinPryde]

When I read further into the details of his dogfighting scenario it was quite shocking, even more so disgusting, what theyve been doing to these poor animals...shooting, shocking, hanging all the pitbulls that lost in a dog fight?? its sick...very disapointed.

[Walking Deadman]

I bet ATL fans are having a fit now that they traded Schaub to the Texans......

D'Oh!!!!!!!!!!

[ragemdw]

This makes me wish that CP kept his mouth shut even more.

[ragemdw]

I bet ATL fans are having a fit now that they traded Schaub to the Texans......

D'Oh!!!!!!!!!!


Well Daunte Culpepper is available now.

[Fred Jones]

This makes me wish that CP kept his mouth shut even more.

Vick brought this upon himself. He violated the law. CP's comments had no bearing on the case.

[Hitman#21]

:dj:


Its about time. He should not be able to get away with this. This is only the 1st step!

[ragemdw]

Vick brought this upon himself. He violated the law. CP's comments had no bearing on the case.


I know its all on Vick but it still makes CP look like a bigger jack ass for trying to defend the guy for doing illegal stuff.

[ExoDus84]

the madden curse strikes again! First it was just injuries...now, it's indictments! Look out for 2008....Vince Young will be indicted for identity theft, as he tries to buy a new pair of jordans with steve young's credit card.

[turbodiesel#44]

Dogfighting= Bad. Executing the losers= Worse. Drowning, Body Slamming & Electrocuting them= Priceless.

I wonder if lying to Goodell is going to be a problem too? Naw, Goodell is the forgiving type.

[Dirk Diggler]

Only Lenny (who sucks off Vick's agent Joel Segal) could try to paint Vick as a victim on a day like this. So much for objectivity. What a sad little man.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2940282

Humility and work ethic, it seemed, had become Vick hallmarks this spring.

Poised to enter the most critical season of his career on the field, even some internal detractors noted that Vick seemed to comprehend how crucial 2007 might be for him.

But now that Vick has officially been dragged into the fight, indicted on two felony counts by a federal court, one has to wonder about the unwavering focus he demonstrated during his tumultuous offseason.

[Fan since a Fetus]

I was a Vick fan when he first came into the league. I had high hopes for him. He has lost me more and more each year. I absolutely lost all respect for him when he flipped off the Atlanta fans.

Now with the dog fighting, I absoultely despise this piece of crap!!! Put his sorry @$$ in jail for the rest of his life. Yes, I mean for the rest of his life. I cannot beleive that someone could do this to these dogs. This is despicable. I agree with one other poster on here that says they hope that he spreads his genital herpes to his fellow inmates.

I hope they wreck the hell out of his big brown hole!!!

[Tastes Like Chicken]

Can we send Boonell to ATL for a 3rd?

[turbodiesel#44]

Can we send Boonell to ATL for a 3rd?

Interesting thought. Who do they have on DL that they would part with?

[Tastes Like Chicken]

Interesting thought. Who do they have on DL that they would part with?

Chauncey Davis?


Nic Clemons? :doh: :laugh:

[spm]

I think Ookie Vick will go down on this one. His case looks much more damning than the OJ or Lewis case. Too many facts against him. Vick owned the property. The property was used for dogfighting. Vick owned a pitbull kennel. On the kennel website were pictures of the pitbulls at the Virginia property. 60+pitbulls and 17 carcasses were found on the property. Plus, other circumstantial evidence like the "Bad Newz" stuff. Add this to 4-5 witnesses who place him at the dogfights and give details of the conspiracy, including all the gory detail, some witnesses who place him at the property, and some physical evidence (phone records, credit card records, etc..) which the feds probably have and it's tough for the defense to come up with a coherent theory of how Vick was not involved in a dogfighting operation.

[jbooma]

How'd it go from him being 'not likely to be indicted' to the indictment dropping?

We already know they have informants...but is that really what they're going to base the case on?

I predict he'll get a deal from the prosecution: plead guilty to a lesser charge, & only will have to pay a fine (no jailtime). That way the FEDs keep their tidy conviction record, and Vick is punished. I wouldn't be surprised if he got 4 games from Goodell.

I don't know this might ruin his career. The NFL made a very strong comment tonight regarding this. They must have a ton of evidence.

[Tastes Like Chicken]

The Atlanta Falcons issued the following statement regarding the U.S. District Court indictment of Falcons QB Michael Vick Tuesday evening:

"This situation has been troubling to many people, including our fans, during the last few months. With today’s news, our club and team will continue to be tested as Michael works through the legal process toward a conclusion.

We are disappointed that one of our players – and therefore the Falcons – is being presented to the public in a negative way, and we apologize to our fans and the community for that.

Obviously, we are disturbed by today’s news from Virginia. However, we are prepared to deal with it, and we will do the right thing for our club as the legal process plays out. We have a season to prepare for and training camp opens next week. Our plan is to continue to do everything we can to support our players and coaches."

http://www.atlantafalcons.com/News/Articles/2007/07/Falcons_issue_statement_regarding_Vick_indictment. aspx

[TotalRecall]

Yeah, he started this dogfighting ring in his NFL rookie season. That just boggles my mind. You all of a sudden become rich and you immediately want to piss it away. Is it stupidity or arrogance?

[Destino]

How'd it go from him being 'not likely to be indicted' to the indictment dropping?

We already know they have informants...but is that really what they're going to base the case on?

I predict he'll get a deal from the prosecution: plead guilty to a lesser charge, & only will have to pay a fine (no jailtime). That way the FEDs keep their tidy conviction record, and Vick is punished. I wouldn't be surprised if he got 4 games from Goodell.

Not likely to be indicted were the words of the local prosecutor right? The one I've been saying stinks ever since he refused to serve a warrant only to find out the house was later robbed in an amazing turn of events.

The feds came in right after that and... well look at that, turns out there was plenty of evidence.

[turbodiesel#44]

Not likely to be indicted were the words of the local prosecutor right? The one I've been saying stinks ever since he refused to serve a warrant only to find out the house was later robbed in an amazing turn of events.

The feds came in right after that and... well look at that, turns out there was plenty of evidence.

Hmm, yes, something he didn't like about the wording of the warrant. Are you saying Vick may have influenced this prosecutor? There is more hard time in that than the doggy thing. Wonder if the Feds are checking that out?

That's assuming Vick was smart enough to realise it would be all over for him if he got connected and he needed to avoid this at all costs.

Or maybe the prosecutor was a fan. Maybe.

[Jeeb]

Hmm, yes, something he didn't like about the wording of the warrant. Are you saying Vick may have influenced this prosecutor? There is more hard time in that than the doggy thing. Wonder if the Feds are checking that out?

That's assuming Vick was smart enough to realise it would be all over for him if he got connected and he needed to avoid this at all costs.

Or maybe the prosecutor was a fan. Maybe.

I'm thinking he thought he got a cushy job as the prosecutor of a town with a very small population and was scared he might have actually have to do some work.

....or he got a bribe of some sort.

[Hooper]

You know, in hindsight, the Falcons probably would have been better off not making that trade with San Diego and taking LT and Brees.

[borninblood]

Finally something i agree with peta on


http://getactive.peta.org/campaign/afalcons_vick

[Area51]

Damn how messed up in the head and cold hearted do you have to be to kill dogs you deem unable to fight? Wow, what a jackass.

Atlanta did do the right thing with Schaub. He had only one year left and I dont think anyone expected this situation with Vick happen. The best thing that could happen to the Falcons this year is that they suck really badly this year and then have a chance of drafting Brian Brohm.

[eagleskins]

Vick is done. He was one of the worst QB's in the league anyhow, and definitely the most overrated player in the NFL by far.

[MattGeorge85]

The NFL shop does not allow a MEXICO #7 jersey.


However you can order CONVICT #7 (I know it's a little early) or perhaps a play on words CON-VICK

DOGFIGHTER #7

I'm sure there are plenty of others for the bored or creative.

[scruffylookin]

I was a Vick fan when he first came into the league. I had high hopes for him. He has lost me more and more each year. I absolutely lost all respect for him when he flipped off the Atlanta fans.

Now with the dog fighting, I absoultely despise this piece of crap!!! Put his sorry @$$ in jail for the rest of his life. Yes, I mean for the rest of his life. I cannot beleive that someone could do this to these dogs. This is despicable. I agree with one other poster on here that says they hope that he spreads his genital herpes to his fellow inmates.

I hope they wreck the hell out of his big brown hole!!!

I won't say I was a fan, but I do remember watching that Sugar Bowl against FSU his sophmore year at VT and was just enthralled watching the kid play against the #1 team in the country. He had so much talent and promise. And here we are 7 years later and he's still pretty much the same guy. Forgetting the charges against him for one moment, Vick by any measure is a disappointment as an NFL QB. He's still nothing but a great athlete with a big arm but shows little to no ability in running an NFL offense.

As to the charges, I'm not sure what kind of jailtime he will actually get if and when he will be convicted. But I sure hope Goodell sends a message and bans his ass forever and if by some chance Vick is ever allowed to play in the NFL again, as far as I'm concerned he's fair game and should be treated in every stadium like it was Philly at the old Vet. Batteries and other projectiles should be his concern as much as the defensive line and linebackers he's playing against.

Vick and his ilk are nothing but garbage.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Eh, I tend to save my outrage for little kids starving in Africa. Maybe that's just me.

[ntotoro]

Eh, I tend to save my outrage for little kids starving in Africa. Maybe that's just me.

Then go start a thread about it or send them some food.

[grhqofb5]

Um, no. In CA, animal cruelty is a far worse crime than mass murder.

Actually, murder has been legal in California since the mid 90s.

[pointyfootball]

Do the Falcons play at the Browns this year? Would be great to see what they would come up with sign/chant-wise.

[DWinzit]

Do the Falcons play at the Browns this year? Would be great to see what they would come up with sign/chant-wise.No they don't play, but your correct, Vick in the Dog Pound would be fun!

[KingGibbs]

Everyone was wondering why it took so long for this indictment. Obviously they took the time to gather up the evidence to be sure they had a legitimate case with such a high profile individual and we'll find out soon enough what a peice of **** Vick really is.

Even if there is no trial before the season this cloud will be over the Falcons head all season. Reporters will slam the Falcons with question after question in regards to that punk ass *****.

Damn the Chargers are looking like genuises.

[Larry Gude]

This won't go to to trial for another year. He plays this year.....


No way. I think he's gone. At the very least for this season.

How do you suspend Pac-man for a year for multiple 'incidents' that he hasn't even been convicted of that amount to a guy who goes out partying and gets into unplanned trouble way too much and not ban Vick for life for an on going criminal enterprise?

Now, the can of worms. New sheriffs in town, Goodall, like to clean things up and they are the ideal person to do it; new means they don't have the ties, the inside knowledge, the conflicting agendas and the long term involvement and compromises that are part and parcel to the issues of the day.

The down side is the Vick investigation is going to bring out names. I've wondered before if Portis's flippant comments were related to knowledge of and perhaps involvement with Vick even if just as a spectator.

So, who else? Vick has friends. Famous friends. Now that Goodall has brought out the broom to clean things up, he's gonna have to confront some tough and perhaps very inconvenient problems as this evolves.

So, will Vick be gone for life?

Who else is going to come to light? Or did no one else in the NFL, player or otehrwise, have any knowledge or involvement in Mike's hobby?

[Larry Gude]

Atlanta, meet Daunte Culpepper.

You've got to be right! Damn good timing, huh?

[Larry Gude]

So what song should teams play at their home stadiums to get into his head? Assuming that he plays another game in the league?

The obvious one that comes to mind is "Who Let the Dogs Out?" right?? :)

:laugh: We'll never hear that song again in an NFL stadium! :laugh:

[SkinsGuy]

No way. I think he's gone. At the very least for this season.

How do you suspend Pac-man for a year for multiple 'incidents' that he hasn't even been convicted of that amount to a guy who goes out partying and gets into unplanned trouble way too much and not ban Vick for life for an on going criminal enterprise?

Now, the can of worms. New sheriffs in town, Goodall, like to clean things up and they are the ideal person to do it; new means they don't have the ties, the inside knowledge, the conflicting agendas and the long term involvement and compromises that are part and parcel to the issues of the day.

The down side is the Vick investigation is going to bring out names. I've wondered before if Portis's flippant comments were related to knowledge of and perhaps involvement with Vick even if just as a spectator.

So, who else? Vick has friends. Famous friends. Now that Goodall has brought out the broom to clean things up, he's gonna have to confront some tough and perhaps very inconvenient problems as this evolves.

So, will Vick be gone for life?

Who else is going to come to light? Or did no one else in the NFL, player or otehrwise, have any knowledge or involvement in Mike's hobby?


Listening to the way Chris Mortenson was talking about it on ESPN NEWS, the NFL may wait in regards to Vick.

That is b/c (according to Mort), Goodell's new policy is geared towards REPEAT offenders. Players like "Pacman" Jones and Tank Johnson were suspended b/c they were routinely getting into trouble or were involved in things that made themselves, and subsequently, the league look bad.

Vick is in a WORLD of trouble with this federal indictment, but he is not known for constantly getting in trouble with the law.

So the NFL may give this more time. I'm not saying I agree with that, but that is the interpretation I got.

[Larry Gude]

Vick is in a WORLD of trouble with this federal indictment, but he is not known for constantly getting in trouble with the law.

So the NFL may give this more time. I'm not saying I agree with that, but that is the interpretation I got.

...it will be interesting because Vick has gotten in PR trouble with the flipping everybody off and the water bottle/secret compartment thing. He's got two little strikes against him already.

Also, people are not gonna march in the streets to protest Pac Man getting into bar fights and speeding and he got hammered. Vick is 100% convicted in the court of public opinion; people will raise constant and holy hell about him, thus the NFL. He'd have been better off if he'd married his 15 year old cousin or something.

I don't think the NFL can give this much time. Dog fighting. Killing the losers. An ongoing enterpirse, crossing state lines. In the news? Day after day?

Again, Pac-man the kinda thug is the new standard; 1 year for being a little out of control. What he did/is accused of, is now starting to look like jay walking thanks to Vick, the dog fight king pin.

Again, I wonder who else in the NFL, if anyone, is involved.

[Chuong9]

Does anyone know by what percentage dogfighting around the nation has decreased since they caught Vick and his people?

[Larry Gude]

Does anyone know by what percentage dogfighting around the nation has decreased since they caught Vick and his people?


Hopefully, a great deal, youngster. Think about what you're asking though; how much is an illegal activity down since the recent event of Vick getting in trouble.

These type things take time you'll learn as you get older. Certainly dog fighting goes on in other places besides Vicks's house as Clinton Portis informed the world.

Because of all this it will now get much more scrutiny from local communities and their police departments, along with federal attention in felony cases (crossing state lines) to crack down on it.

Good question.

[SkinsGuy]

...it will be interesting because Vick has gotten in PR trouble with the flipping everybody off and the water bottle/secret compartment thing. He's got two little strikes against him already.

Also, people are not gonna march in the streets to protest Pac Man getting into bar fights and speeding and he got hammered. Vick is 100% convicted in the court of public opinion; people will raise constant and holy hell about him, thus the NFL. He'd have been better off if he'd married his 15 year old cousin or something.

I don't think the NFL can give this much time. Dog fighting. Killing the losers. An ongoing enterpirse, crossing state lines. In the news? Day after day?

Again, Pac-man the kinda thug is the new standard; 1 year for being a little out of control. What he did/is accused of, is now starting to look like jay walking thanks to Vick, the dog fight king pin.

Again, I wonder who else in the NFL, if anyone, is involved.

Well, I wouldn't agree that what Jones has done looks like "jaywalking" compared to allegations against Vick now.

Don't forget, there is a man (who was a one-time bouncer) who now lies paralyzed b/c of the actions of Jones and his "entourage".

Vick has had issues in the past that you mentioned. Whether the NFL will look at that as the same as Jones (who seemed to get into trouble every week), I don't know.

One thing that surely won't help Vick is that it appears that the articles are saying that the same week that Vick went to talk to the Commish, he was commiting a lot of these atrocities to help cover his tracks.

Which means he lied right to the Goodell's face.

That is probably going to weigh heavily against him as well.

[jthor99]

This is proably the beginning of the end for Mike Vick. Not only with the Falcons but more than likely his NFL career. "According to the indictment, Vick was in the middle of everything from beginning to end. He purchased a vacant piece of property for $34,000, the indictment says. He then had sheds built for training dogs and staging fights and a fence erected to shield the operation from view. And finally, the indictment says, he had a two-story frame house with a basketball court put up as a residence for the people taking care of the dogs. If you believe the indictment, the Vick property had everything anyone could want in a dogfighting operation. "- ESPN

There is also, talk on here that the trail possibly wouldnt start for another year unforunatly for Vick and the Falcons organization is not true Acorrding to ESPN.com "The federal courthouse in Richmond, Va., is the home of the nationally recognized "rocket docket." Cases move quickly in Richmond, more quickly than in any other courthouse in the federal system. Vick's lawyers will be looking for delays and for time to prepare a defense, but the trial likely would begin in a matter of four to six months. "

Bobby Petrino can't wait to draft Brian Brohm next year.

[Larry Gude]

Don't forget, there is a man (who was a one-time bouncer) who now lies paralyzed b/c of the actions of Jones and his "entourage".





...that's a good point and a human being hurt or injured is, for sure, a bigger deal than an animal, but Pac man, so far, is not alledged to have done any gun play. Vick is accused of being directly invloved. It's one thing if your boys are out of line. It's another if your leading them out of line.

Still a good point.

[sith lord]

This is proably the beginning of the end for Mike Vick. Not only with the Falcons but more than likely his NFL career. "According to the indictment, Vick was in the middle of everything from beginning to end. He purchased a vacant piece of property for $34,000, the indictment says. He then had sheds built for training dogs and staging fights and a fence erected to shield the operation from view. And finally, the indictment says, he had a two-story frame house with a basketball court put up as a residence for the people taking care of the dogs. If you believe the indictment, the Vick property had everything anyone could want in a dogfighting operation. "- ESPN

There is also, talk on here that the trail possibly wouldnt start for another year unforunatly for Vick and the Falcons organization is not true Acorrding to ESPN.com "The federal courthouse in Richmond, Va., is the home of the nationally recognized "rocket docket." Cases move quickly in Richmond, more quickly than in any other courthouse in the federal system. Vick's lawyers will be looking for delays and for time to prepare a defense, but the trial likely would begin in a matter of four to six months. "

Bobby Petrino can't wait to draft Brian Brohm next year.

If this trial begins within a year, I'll be shocked. Vick is gonna have a tough time beating this. I'm sure they're gonna be a couple of dog lovers/owners on his jury.

[Larry Gude]

There is also, talk on here that the trail possibly wouldnt start for another year unforunatly for Vick and the Falcons organization is not true Acorrding to ESPN.com "The federal courthouse in Richmond, Va., is the home of the nationally recognized "rocket docket." Cases move quickly in Richmond, more quickly than in any other courthouse in the federal system. Vick's lawyers will be looking for delays and for time to prepare a defense, but the trial likely would begin in a matter of four to six months. "


...now that is very interesting. If there is anything to the idea that the NFL was hoping to wait this out or get another year out of Vick, that's gonna stink to high heaven and put even more pressure on Goodall to whack Vick sooner rather than later.

NFL players better not spit on a sidewalk for the next year or two.

[pointyfootball]

Everyone was wondering why it took so long for this indictment. Obviously they took the time to gather up the evidence to be sure they had a legitimate case with such a high profile individual and we'll find out soon enough what a peice of **** Vick really is.

95% of federal indictments that go to trial end in convictions.

[Martini]

The indictment can be found here.....http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0717072vick1.html
If you are looking for Ookie, P-Funk, Q and T you may find them in their holding cells.


:applause: :applause:

[SkinsGuy]

95% of federal indictments that go to trial end in convictions.


And I think that the majority of that 5% of non-convictions have something to do with John Gotti. :)

[perturbed]

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NFL&id=2107&line=94201&spln=1
The NFL issued a statement about Michael Vick's situation, confirming that "the matter will be reviewed under the League's Personal Conduct Policy."
"We are disappointed that Michael Vick has put himself in a position where a federal grand jury has returned an indictment against him," the statement reads. "The activities are cruel, degrading, and illegal. Michael Vick's guilt has not yet been proven, and we believe that all concerned should allow the legal process to determine the facts." This hints, though hardly explicitly, that the NFL may not punish Vick before due process occurs. Jul. 17 - 7:46 pm et


http://www.atlantafalcons.com/News/Articles/2007/07/Falcons_issue_statement_regarding_Vick_indictment. aspx
The Atlanta Falcons issued the following statement regarding the U.S. District Court indictment of Falcons QB Michael Vick Tuesday evening:

"This situation has been troubling to many people, including our fans, during the last few months. With today’s news, our club and team will continue to be tested as Michael works through the legal process toward a conclusion.

We are disappointed that one of our players – and therefore the Falcons – is being presented to the public in a negative way, and we apologize to our fans and the community for that.

Obviously, we are disturbed by today’s news from Virginia. However, we are prepared to deal with it, and we will do the right thing for our club as the legal process plays out. We have a season to prepare for and training camp opens next week. Our plan is to continue to do everything we can to support our players and coaches."

[Vinnick]

Listening to ESPN radio at like 5am this morning. They overnight host listed some of the ways these dogs are murdered (yes, murdered). It fired me up.

If Mike Vick is guilty. I hope he goes to jail. I know Ray Lewis basically got away with murder (many believe). But, I want to see people be punished for what they've done

[macnoke03]

Here's to that piece of garbage thug getting the max penalty :cheers:

[China]

Micheal Vick is known as "Ookie" :laugh:

The Smoking Gun has the whole indictment:

http://web1.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0717072vick1.html

He should change his name to Addams..."He's creepy and he's kooky, he's all together Ookie..."

[hokie4redskins]

Wow, a lot of haters in this thread........a without a guilty verdict either. Tsk Tsk. Talk about throwing the first stone.

If any of you think Vick is going down for this, you're outside your mind. You may WISH he goes down for this, which is sad actually, but you're only kidding yourself.

[macnoke03]

Wow, a lot of haters in this thread........a without a guilty verdict either. Tsk Tsk. Talk about throwing the first stone.

If any of you think Vick is going down for this, you're outside your mind. You may WISH he goes down for this, which is sad actually, but you're only kidding yourself.


Sad? What's said is that you let you lame Hokie homerism actually stand up and defend this jerk. I don't care if he hasn't been proven guilty in this case yet. It sounds like the case against him is pretty damaging. Besides that, we already knew that he was an ***hole anyway, just like that hole family.

[SkinsGuy]

Wow, a lot of haters in this thread........a without a guilty verdict either. Tsk Tsk. Talk about throwing the first stone.

If any of you think Vick is going down for this, you're outside your mind. You may WISH he goes down for this, which is sad actually, but you're only kidding yourself.


We aren't talking about 'sin' here. We are talking about federal charges.

If Vick is guilty of these crimes, then the folks on this board aren't "haters".

You sound like someone who will blindly defend Vick no matter what he does, says, or is charged with.

If you think Vick is going to get through this unscathed, you are thinking outside of YOUR mind (whatever the hell that means :) ). You may WISH Vick will get away with this and it will all blow over, which is sad, actually, but you are only kidding yourself.

[RedskinsNation]

VIck will get some punishment for his involvement if found guilty but not what he will deserve. Thats a big "if" he is found guilty.

The Duke kids were innocent despite the public outcry so this case could wind up having the same end result.

Well someone will take the fall...perhaps only Vicks "posse". If thats the ONLY ones who are involved then it is what it is. But I doubt his posse will go down by themselves...i dont see them taking the fall for all this. Surely they can afford to buy all the dogs, kennels, tools, cages etc...and oh by the way the HOUSE where all this garbage was found.

We shall see.

[Fred Jones]

The Duke case is a little different in that you had a vindictive runaway DA that should never have brought charges in the first place.

In this case you have a carefully investigated case involving probably a number of attorneys that made sure the bases were covered.

[hokie4redskins]

Sad? What's said is that you let you lame Hokie homerism actually stand up and defend this jerk.

Do you know he's a jerk, or are you letting the media formulate your opinion?

I don't care if he hasn't been proven guilty in this case yet. It sounds like the case against him is pretty damaging.

You mean, like the Duke rape case? Yeah, that seemed pretty "damaging" too. Forget the trial!!!! Let the public crucify Vick the way they were willing to do to the Duke Lax players!!!! Screw the justice system!! Screw "innocent until proven guilty"!!!!


Besides that, we already knew that he was an ***hole anyway, just like that hole family.

:doh:

[skins4me58203]

Listening to the way Chris Mortenson was talking about it on ESPN NEWS, the NFL may wait in regards to Vick.

That is b/c (according to Mort), Goodell's new policy is geared towards REPEAT offenders. Players like "Pacman" Jones and Tank Johnson were suspended b/c they were routinely getting into trouble or were involved in things that made themselves, and subsequently, the league look bad.

Vick is in a WORLD of trouble with this federal indictment, but he is not known for constantly getting in trouble with the law.

So the NFL may give this more time. I'm not saying I agree with that, but that is the interpretation I got.

Here's how I see it. If convicted his life is basically over. There is no need for the NFL to take preemptive action is this matter. Let the Gov do their thing.

[Ellis]

my biggest fear is that players on the Redskins may have gone to these fights. I mean come on... you know lots of players knew about this.

With the way Clinton Portis spoke on the radio when the allegations came out, you'd think HE was micheal vick.

[turbodiesel#44]

Do you know he's a jerk, or are you letting the media formulate your opinion?

Double-birding his own fans pretty much sealed that deal.



You mean, like the Duke rape case? Yeah, that seemed pretty "damaging" too. Forget the trial!!!! Let the public crucify Vick the way they were willing to do to the Duke Lax players!!!! Screw the justice system!! Screw "innocent until proven guilty"!!!!

:doh:

The Feds don't mess around unless they have the goods. Lots of goods.

[macnoke03]

Do you know he's a jerk, or are you letting the media formulate your opinion?



You mean, like the Duke rape case? Yeah, that seemed pretty "damaging" too. Forget the trial!!!! Let the public crucify Vick the way they were willing to do to the Duke Lax players!!!! Screw the justice system!! Screw "innocent until proven guilty"!!!!




:doh:


Really, the evidence in the Duke rape case was damaging? DNA (which is the gold standard in those types of cases) that doesn't link any of those lacrosse players to assualting that less than credible stripper. A DA with an obvious agenda. Maybe you should read a couple of posts up.

[MartinC]

Wow, a lot of haters in this thread........a without a guilty verdict either. Tsk Tsk. Talk about throwing the first stone.

If any of you think Vick is going down for this, you're outside your mind. You may WISH he goes down for this, which is sad actually, but you're only kidding yourself.

The Feds have a 95% conviction rate on charges they bring. I can not believe they would have gone this far without a solid case given both Vicks celeb status and the racial angle which is there whatever we may wish.

I think, based only on what I have read admitedly, that Vick is going to have serious problems getting a not guilty on this.

The question of whether he will do time is another question - I can quite easily see a situation where there is a plea bargain and he pleads guilty to cruelty charges but not conspiracy and gets a big fine, a record and some kind of probabtion. Problem for Vick is a guilty plea also probably gets him at least a 1 year suspension from the NFL. He will also lose a ton of endorsment deals.

Whatever way you cut this at best he is going to loose millions of dollars (even if he is found innocent) at worst he will lose millions of dollars, spend some time in jail and probably be finished as an NFL player.

Frankly if he was involved in what is alleged he deserves all the above.

[hokie4redskins]

We aren't talking about 'sin' here. We are talking about federal charges.

I think you're missing my point.

If Vick is guilty of these crimes, then the folks on this board aren't "haters".

"If"??? The way people are talking in this thread, "if" isn't a possibility. He's guilty!!! He belongs in jail!!!!

You sound like someone who will blindly defend Vick no matter what he does, says, or is charged with.

Damn right, especially considering his guilt has not been proven.

If you think Vick is going to get through this unscathed, you are thinking outside of YOUR mind (whatever the hell that means :) ). You may WISH Vick will get away with this and it will all blow over, which is sad, actually, but you are only kidding yourself.

Sorry, I didn't realize the power of your comprehension was lacking. If you think Vick is going to jail for this, you are out of your mind. Better?

[skins4me58203]

Here's to that piece of garbage thug getting the max penalty :cheers:


Well he may deserve jail time, but your statement says something about yourself. Whats the point in celebrating the downfall of a human being. To me, your the piece of garbage.

[Riggo-toni]

You mean, like the Duke rape case? Yeah, that seemed pretty "damaging" too. :doh:

Actually, there were plenty of questionable details about the Duke case from the get-go. In contrast, despite public outcries, the prosecution in this case seems to have gone quite methodically, covering all bases. I don't think the two cases are analogous at all.

If Vick is convicted, I'd like to see him get at least a year in jail. The conditions in this case are truly monstrous, just downright repulsive. If he is guilty and walks away with merely a slap on the wrist, it will be a terrible precedent and a disturbing message for those who engage in such sadistic cruelty.

[hokie4redskins]

Well he may deserve jail time, but your statement says something about yourself. Whats the point in celebrating the downfall of a human being. To me, your the piece of garbage.

Exactly. Forget the trial. Macjoke is judge, jury and executioner.

:rolleyes:

[macnoke03]

Well he may deserve jail time, but your statement says something about yourself. Whats the point in celebrating the downfall of a human being. To me, your the piece of garbage.


The point? The point is if/when he is found guilty he deserves to be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Too many people get off for things with nothing but a slap on the wrist. If you can't understand that as the context of my post, sorry.

[turbodiesel#44]

Well he may deserve jail time, but your statement says something about yourself. Whats the point in celebrating the downfall of a human being. To me, your the piece of garbage.

The indictment indicates it is more than just cruel abuse of these animals by fighting them and accusing him of facilitating the whole Bad Newx kennels.

It indicates he derives some sort of sick pleasure by torturing them to death. What defense do you have for that?

[macnoke03]

Exactly. Forget the trial. Macjoke is judge, jury and executioner.

:rolleyes:



Read the thread man...It's obvious I'm not the only one with the same thoughts about your posts and arguments.

[Zen-like Todd]

Well he may deserve jail time, but your statement says something about yourself. Whats the point in celebrating the downfall of a human being. To me, your the piece of garbage.

No, he's absolutely in the right. You're in the wrong. Celebrating the downfall of an individual who, if guilty, was responsible for inhumane, disgusting, and immoral acts, is a good thing. Defending such an individual, as you seem to be doing, is a sad, sad, sad display on your part.

[The Full Monty]

Isn't it funny that Chris Mortensen and Len Pasquarelli reported (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2927560) on ESPN fairly recently that Vick was "unlikely to be indicted in the dogfighting federal investigation, according to information gathered by the NFL and Atlanta Falcons, sources tell ESPN's Chris Mortensen."

Or how about Len Pasquarelli, who was told by a "source close to the investigation" that Vick was not a focus?

I'm definitely looking into it.

[TheDoyler23]

I think he was indicted as a pressure move to get him to testify against the other three. The other get convictions and Vick gets mostly a walk (8-16 game suspension).

[macnoke03]

No, he's absolutely in the right. You're in the wrong. Celebrating the downfall of an individual who, if guilty, was responsible for inhumane, disgusting, and immoral acts, is a good thing. Defending such an individual, as you seem to be doing, is a sad, sad, sad display on your part.


thank you Todd :applause:

[RedskinsNation]

Multiple witnesses, carcasses found, cages found, kennel owned, website run, physical evidence related to the crime commited (i.e. reciepts/credit card statments).....etc....all of this tracked and traced over about a 5 year period!??!?!?

By the way a lot of this on HIS property?!

It doesnt look good for Vick, its easy to say that. Even if the FEDS have it ALL wrong and Vick ONLY owned the property....we are kidding ourselves if we say Vick had no knowledge of his house being used like this and the goings-ons for 5 years....that right there is fair enough reason to not like the man.

If someone i knew owned a house and for 5 years this activity went on and he allowed it and remained mum on the situation i would feel the same way. Sheer disgust.

[Hooper]

Vick is screwed any way you look at it. Unless he is proven 100 innocent of everything in the indictment, his reputation is forever ruined. I doubt this goes to trial -- too much risk for Vick there. He'll plead guility to a lesser crime.

Falcons fans aren't even defending him -- they want him gone because he's going to be a huge distraction as long as he's playing there. Training camp is going to be a nightmare -- the media and PETA will be camped out there 24/7.

Who do you think is more furious right now? Arthur Blank or Roger Goodell? Vick lied to both of their faces, but it has to be Blank -- he has a fortune tied up in Vick and traded away his backup qb.

[Hooper]

Isn't it funny that Chris Mortensen and Len Pasquarelli reported (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2927560) on ESPN fairly recently that Vick was "unlikely to be indicted in the dogfighting federal investigation, according to information gathered by the NFL and Atlanta Falcons, sources tell ESPN's Chris Mortensen."

Or how about Len Pasquarelli, who was told by a "source close to the investigation" that Vick was not a focus?

I'm definitely looking into it.

Lenny P is a stooge for Vick's agent. It's well known and it's pathetic that ESPN keeps letting him report on this case. His article yesterday was hilarious. Vick is "devastated" Lenny wrote. Oh, so we're supposed to feel bad for him now?

[SkinsGuy]

I think you're missing my point.

No, I get it. It was ridiculous but I got it.

"If"??? The way people are talking in this thread, "if" isn't a possibility. He's guilty!!! He belongs in jail!!!!

You need to go over to the smoking gun and read the indictment. It is pretty damned detailed.

The Feds don't go this far unless they are sure. This isn't like the Duke case where a stripper (who had a history of making gang rape charges) pointed out several men and they were put through the wringer despite the DNA showing them to be innocent.

This isn't a state or local charge, but a federal one.

Damn right, especially considering his guilt has not been proven.

Please. :rolleyes: It has nothing to do with due process. You'll be here defending the guy even if he is convicted on 50 charges.

Sorry, I didn't realize the power of your comprehension was lacking. If you think Vick is going to jail for this, you are out of your mind. Better?

You didn't say "jail". You said "going down".

People (especially public figures) can "go down" for things in other ways besides jail.

It is not my lack of comprehending... it is your lack of explaining yourself better, "genius".

[TODD]

The point? The point is if/when he is found guilty he deserves to be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Too many people get off for things with nothing but a slap on the wrist. If you can't understand that as the context of my post, sorry.

Too many athletes especially get off with a slap on the wrist. This is a heinous, deplorable crime and I hope the legal system isn't clouded by Vick's celebrity if he is found guilty. The crimes described are a completely unnecessary form of entertainment, especially for a "man" with the amount of money he has.

[KingGibbs]

Well he may deserve jail time, but your statement says something about yourself. Whats the point in celebrating the downfall of a human being. To me, your the piece of garbage.

Go swing on Vick's ball hairs than. No living, breathing creature should go through what some of those dogs did regardless of their reputation and nature. It's worth celebrating (if indeed guilty) because it's one less peice of **** in our society.

Mods. Please move this back to tailgate because it is more news related than football related and will make for some heated debate.

[hokie4redskins]

No, he's absolutely in the right. You're in the wrong. Celebrating the downfall of an individual who, if guilty, was responsible for inhumane, disgusting, and immoral acts, is a good thing. Defending such an individual, as you seem to be doing, is a sad, sad, sad display on your part.

Wow, how righteous of you?

:rolleyes:

"If guilty", right Todd? Why don't people wait and see before they go "celebrating" Vick's inevitable downfall.

[kingofdaroad99]

watching my redbone coonhound and pit bull wrestle with each other on the couch while Im typing this it occurs to me how sick this whole thing really is. I think its important to remember that is four people who are in trouble and not just one. The only difference is if three can find a way to weasle their way out of these charges, one will never escape the court of public opinion

[TheDane]

Being involved in a dog fighting ring is one thing.

Personally being responsible for killing eight living animals for no other reason than because they weren't "fighters"... that's downright disgusting.

Whether or not Vick goes to jail, he's definitely a bona fide piece of ****.

[hokie4redskins]

No, I get it. It was ridiculous but I got it.

Wow, you take issue with "innocent until proven guilty"? That's "ridiculous" to you? You should write a strongly-worded letter to our Founding Fathers.



You need to go over to the smoking gun and read the indictment. It is pretty damned detailed.

Yeah, I read it. If it's as damning as you claim, then Vick's guilt should be forthcoming. Until then.........

:stfu:

You didn't say "jail". You said "going down".

I guess people interpret context differently. I wouldn't think a 4-game suspension and $250K fine would be "going down". I would tend to think jail time is a more accurate depiction.

But hey, you win!!

:rolleyes:

[Koolblue13]

Vick is a scumbag. There is no way he had no idea these things were going on. A 7 state dog fighting ring. I can't even imagine how many dogs have been tortured and abused for the fun of it. Animal abuse is just as bad as abusing the elderly or children IMO. Anybody who can't defend themselves and are abused for some sick pleasure. I wish animal abuse charges were more serious.

He has plenty of undeniable evidence that links him to this. I don't want to hear any guilty before being tryed crap. I just hope he is made an example of so people like Portis take it more serious.

[skins4me58203]

The point? The point is if/when he is found guilty he deserves to be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Too many people get off for things with nothing but a slap on the wrist. If you can't understand that as the context of my post, sorry.


That wasn't your point. You gave a :cheers: , to the fact he was being busted. You said nothing about if he's convicted or any relevant facts.

[skins4me58203]

Vick is a scumbag. There is no way he had no idea these things were going on. A 7 state dog fighting ring. I can't even imagine how many dogs have been tortured and abused for the fun of it. Animal abuse is just as bad as abusing the elderly or children IMO. Anybody who can't defend themselves and are abused for some sick pleasure. I wish animal abuse charges were more serious.

He has plenty of undeniable evidence that links him to this. I don't want to hear any guilty before being tryed crap. I just hope he is made an example of so people like Portis take it more serious.



Get off the Portis thing. I can tell your a bleeding heart.

I'm sorry but killing a dog doesn't compare to killing a child. You are so far out of wack.

[KingGibbs]

Wow, you take issue with "innocent until proven guilty"? That's "ridiculous" to you? You should write a strongly-worded letter to our Founding Fathers.

Yeah, I read it. If it's as damning as you claim, then Vick's guilt should be forthcoming. Until then.........

:stfu:

I guess people interpret context differently. I wouldn't think a 4-game suspension and $250K fine would be "going down". I would tend to think jail time is a more accurate depiction.

But hey, you win!!

:rolleyes:

For a minute there I thought you were a Va Tech fan which would explain your defensive mode.......... Oh wait a minute. :rolleyes:

[ouvan59]

You mean, like the Duke rape case? Yeah, that seemed pretty "damaging" too. Forget the trial!!!! Let the public crucify Vick the way they were willing to do to the Duke Lax players!!!! Screw the justice system!! Screw "innocent until proven guilty"!!!!

You aren't really comparing this to the Duke case are you? In the Duke case the entire body of evidence was one woman's accusation. That's it. The other woman there didn't even corroborate her story. In Vick's case it is his property and they have tons of evidence, including dog carcasses and several statements from people that have admitted they were involved along with Vick. You have to be truly burying your head in the sand to not see this as big trouble for Mr. Vick.

I understand that a man is innocent until proven guilty and that you feel the need to give him the benefit of the doubt but you can't for a second believe that the Duke case and this case are even close to being the same scenario.

Like you I will wait until more comes out to condemn him but if these accusations are true particularly the part about electrocuting dogs or slamming dogs to the ground until they died then he is a worthless POS. I hope it all turns out that it is false and that he is being railroaded but it doesn't look good.

[Zen-like Todd]

Wow, how righteous of you?

:rolleyes:

"If guilty", right Todd? Why don't people wait and see before they go "celebrating" Vick's inevitable downfall.


No, I'm correct. If guilty, he's a deplorable human being. You're the only one being righteous here. Frankly, you should be ashamed of yourself.

[ouvan59]

Get off the Portis thing. I can tell your a bleeding heart.

I'm sorry but killing a dog doesn't compare to killing a child. You are so far out of wack.

Killing a dog may not compare to killing a child but it is pretty effin bad particularly if the reports of how they were killed are true. We are talking some seriously twisted individuals.

[SkinsGuy]

Wow, you take issue with "innocent until proven guilty"? That's "ridiculous" to you? You should write a strongly-worded letter to our Founding Fathers.

You didn't say anything about innocent until proven guilty. You said some drivel about casting the first stone. :laugh:

As if even if Vick is guilty of this, we have no right to talk b/c we probably did bad things too. :rolleyes:

I can assure, I have never been charged with any crime. :)

Yeah, I read it. If it's as damning as you claim, then Vick's guilt should be forthcoming. Until then.........

:stfu:

Why? B/c he is a former Hokie? If he was a former Boiler-maker, would you be so passionate about this? :)

I guess people interpret context differently. I wouldn't think a 4-game suspension and $250K fine would be "going down". I would tend to think jail time is a more accurate depiction.

But hey, you win!!

:rolleyes:


The winner does usually beat a loser. :)

And if Vick is found guilty or pleads guilty to these crimes, I can assure he is going to get a lot more than a 4 game suspension and a 250k fine.

In fact, how the NFL deals with him will be the least of his worries.

[Koolblue13]

Get off the Portis thing. I can tell your a bleeding heart.

I'm sorry but killing a dog doesn't compare to killing a child. You are so far out of wack.Abusing anything that can not defend it's self is deplorable. Killing a dog is not as bad as killing a child, but it's still a sorry act.

Dog fighting should be viewed much worse than it is by a lot of people. Portis showed us just how common it is. Thats an aditude I want changed.

[hokie4redskins]

No, I'm correct. If guilty, he's a deplorable human being. You're the only one being righteous here. Frankly, you should be ashamed of yourself.

I am ashamed of myself, but only because you say so.

:laugh:

And the fact that you think I SHOULD be ashamed of myself indicates that you already see Vick as guilty.

Contradicting one of the founding tenets of this great country, Todd? You should be ashamed of yourself.

[Hooper]

No matter what you think of dogfighting....

... Vick is done in Atlanta and maybe the NFL period. Owners don't a qb who is a huge distraction and the public has decided is a piece of garbage.

[Redshu]

How'd it go from him being 'not likely to be indicted' to the indictment dropping?

We already know they have informants...but is that really what they're going to base the case on?

I predict he'll get a deal from the prosecution: plead guilty to a lesser charge, & only will have to pay a fine (no jailtime). That way the FEDs keep their tidy conviction record, and Vick is punished. I wouldn't be surprised if he got 4 games from Goodell.

That is insane. So a man can execute animals in the worst possible ways and plea out of it. I doubt it. They may lean on him hard to implicate anyone else of interest in the dogfighting community, but they WON'T let this big fish just swim away. Theres no way.

[macnoke03]

That wasn't your point. You gave a :cheers: , to the fact he was being busted. You said nothing about if he's convicted or any relevant facts.


You're damn right I gave the :cheers: .

It seems quite clear that at the VERY LEAST Vick knew about all of this crap. If you can't understand that and appreciate the fact that I want him busted than that's your problem.

[RFK Lives]

Get off the Portis thing. I can tell your a bleeding heart.

I'm sorry but killing a dog doesn't compare to killing a child. You are so far out of wack.
He said abuse, nothing about killing a child.

[skins4me58203]

He said abuse, nothing about killing a child.


Whatever

[Koolblue13]

You're damn right I gave the :cheers: .

It seems quite clear that at the VERY LEAST Vick knew about all of this crap. If you can't understand that and appreciate the fact that I want him busted than that's your problem.I'll give one too!:cheers:


He had head bands made up to promote a kennel that body slams dogs to kill them.

Pit bulls aren't bad dogs, but they will be if they are breed for fighting much longer. A whole breed of dog could be gone thanks to scumbags like Vick.

[hokie4redskins]

I'll try to pick my quotes more carefully for you next time, my bad.


Why? B/c he is a former Hokie? If he was a former Boiler-maker, would you be so passionate about this? :)

If Vick was a Boilermaker, I probably wouldn't be coming to his defense like this. But I certainly wouldn't be willing to lock him up and throw away the key like you and your ilk are willing to do.................before this thing even gets to trial.

[Stophovr6]

http://loljocks.blogspot.com/2007/07/falcons-react-to-michael-vicks.html

[turbodiesel#44]

That is insane. So a man can execute animals in the worst possible ways and plea out of it. I doubt it. They may lean on him hard to implicate anyone else of interest in the dogfighting community, but they WON'T let this big fish just swim away. Theres no way.

If it turns out Vick killed those animals as humanely as possible and then consumed them, you are going to look silly.

[Koolblue13]

I am ashamed of myself, but only because you say so.

:laugh:

And the fact that you think I SHOULD be ashamed of myself indicates that you already see Vick as guilty.

Contradicting one of the founding tenets of this great country, Todd? You should be ashamed of yourself.Let me guess. You just realy like the way your Bad Newz gear fits and don't want to have to get rid of it.

[skins4me58203]

No matter what you think of dogfighting....

... Vick is done in Atlanta and maybe the NFL period. Owners don't a qb who is a huge distraction and the public has decided is a piece of garbage.


They released a statement yesterday that they will continue to support their players and coaches.

Now they may have a changed of heart, but that sounds like a "we'll keep" statement.

[Koolblue13]

http://loljocks.blogspot.com/2007/07/falcons-react-to-michael-vicks.html


Thats something. I was smiling until I got to the end.

[ouvan59]

That is insane. So a man can execute animals in the worst possible ways and plea out of it. I doubt it. They may lean on him hard to implicate anyone else of interest in the dogfighting community, but they WON'T let this big fish just swim away. Theres no way.

It all depends on how many people are willing to implicate Vick directly. Somebody is going to take a hard fall for this but my guess is that it isn't going to be Vick. One of his posse will take the brunt of this to keep the money train flowing. I think the plea bargain for either no jail time or a small amount of jail time is more likely. Vick is going to get some very high-priced attornies who will do whatever it takes to keep him from doing hard time. I'm betting that one of his buds will get 5 years and be out in 2 and have a nice bank roll waiting for him.

[Koolblue13]

It all depends on how many people are willing to implicate Vick directly. Somebody is going to take a hard fall for this but my guess is that it isn't going to be Vick. One of his posse will take the brunt of this to keep the money train flowing. I think the plea bargain for either no jail time or a small amount of jail time is more likely. Vick is going to get some very high-priced attornies who will do whatever it takes to keep him from doing hard time. I'm betting that one of his buds will get 5 years and be out in 2 and have a nice bank roll waiting for him.I hope not. I hope he is made an example from this.

[pjfootballer]

I love superduperduperduper mega merges. Get's my blood flowing.

[hokie4redskins]

Let me guess. You just realy like the way your Bad Newz gear fits and don't want to have to get rid of it.

Is this an attempt at humor?

:whoknows:

[SnyderMustGo]

He is hosed. There is over a 95% conviction rate in federal cases.

To the Hokie Homer who keeps screaming "innocent until proven guility": you don't know what you are talking about. That phrase refers to the burden of proof at trial, which rests with the prosecutor, not the defendant. It is a legal principle that about what quantum of proof must be shown before the state can convict an individual for crimes.

It does not mean that an individual is in fact innocent until prove otherwise. He can very well be guilty now. He just can't be convicted until the state proves it.

You are conflating legal principles regarding burdens of prof with moral condemnations based on evidence.

[SkinsGuy]

I'll try to pick my quotes more carefully for you next time, my bad.



If Vick was a Boilermaker, I probably wouldn't be coming to his defense like this. But I certainly wouldn't be willing to lock him up and throw away the key like you and your ilk are willing to do.................before this thing even gets to trial.

My ilk? :laugh:

Your ilk is the problem. You are here defending Vick, not b/c you know he is some good decent person, or b/c of some inside knowedge you have of his innocence.

You are here defending him b/c he went to your college.

Period. End of sentence.

What kind of defense is that? "Vick couldn't of possibly done this b/c he went to Virginia Tech".

:wtf:

Face it. If Vick were a former Demon Deacon or Tar Heel, you'd be right here, ready to throw that key away at his conviction along with the rest of this 'ilk'. :)

And I noticed that you didn't dispute my charge that if Vick DOES get convicted, and if he got convicted of 49 other charges, you would still be here defending him.

Not b/c of any legal stances, but b/c he is your Virginia Tech boy.

So get off your high horse. It is too glaringly Hokie purple. :)

[Dirk Diggler]

They released a statement yesterday that they will continue to support their players and coaches.

Now they may have a changed of heart, but that sounds like a "we'll keep" statement.

The Falcons statement was hardly "support" for Vick. They don't even mention that they will support Vick specifically - just their players and coaches "as the season opens."

Besides, they have no choice to keep him unless they want to blow up their cap. Ask yourself why Pacman is still a Titan? Answer: $$$. Once these idiots are convincted, the team can go after their bonus money. Pacman had something like 14 mill and Vick I believe was in the 30 mill range for upfront dollars. Releasing either player now means they lose the right to go after the bonus money.

[Prosperity]

ugh... what a disgrace this guy has become. If true (and I do think it is true) I hope the ****er serves some prison time, at least enough to end his career for good.

[turbodiesel#44]

It all depends on how many people are willing to implicate Vick directly. Somebody is going to take a hard fall for this but my guess is that it isn't going to be Vick. One of his posse will take the brunt of this to keep the money train flowing. I think the plea bargain for either no jail time or a small amount of jail time is more likely. Vick is going to get some very high-priced attornies who will do whatever it takes to keep him from doing hard time. I'm betting that one of his buds will get 5 years and be out in 2 and have a nice bank roll waiting for him.

From ESPN:

Would Vick be sent to jail if he is convicted?


Yes. It's hard to imagine any other outcome. The charges are serious, and the evidence against Vick presented at trial will be nasty. The government's case includes evidence that Vick and his cohorts "tested" pit bulls for ferocity. If the dogs failed the test, the indictment charges, they were executed by hanging or drowning. In one case, with Vick present, the indictment says a dog was slammed to the ground until it was dead. In another incident, a dog was soaked with a hose and then electrocuted. Those aren't the sort of transgressions that lead to probation and community service. It's the kind of behavior that results in punishment, and the punishment will be jail time.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2940312

[KingGibbs]

Is this an attempt at humor?

:whoknows:

I laughed.

[skins4me58203]

The Falcons statement was hardly "support" for Vick. They don't even mention that they will support Vick specifically - just their players and coaches "as the season opens."

Besides, they have no choice to keep him unless they want to blow up their cap. Ask yourself why Pacman is still a Titan? Answer: $$$. Once these idiots are convincted, the team can go after their bonus money. Pacman had something like 14 mill and Vick I believe was in the 30 mill range for upfront dollars. Releasing either player now means they lose the right to go after the bonus money.



Ummm....and. I don't believe you said anything different from me. You just threw in some cap issues....

[Zen-like Todd]

I am ashamed of myself, but only because you say so.

:laugh:

And the fact that you think I SHOULD be ashamed of myself indicates that you already see Vick as guilty.

Contradicting one of the founding tenets of this great country, Todd? You should be ashamed of yourself.

I never did it. Not only is your position shameful, but your reading skills are apparently horrible. You are in the wrong, and in an indefensible position. Stop wasting the board's time by attempting to spin yourself out of this one.

[RFK Lives]

I didn't realize the Rocket Docket is two blocks away from me. I work in the James Center in downtown RIC and I walk by the courts building every day at lunch. I wonder if we will be able to handle the press invasion if and when the trial starts.

[turbodiesel#44]

You guys comparing the Duke case to Vick don't understand the implication of a Federal indictment. This is the big leagues. Not some podunk DA with an agenda. It's like comparing the NFL to some AA high school league.

Here is a take on Federal indictments from a lawyer.

http://www.hmichaelsteinberg.com/federalcrimes.htm

[hokie4redskins]

My ilk? :laugh:

Your ilk is the problem. You are here defending Vick, not b/c you know he is some good decent person, or b/c of some inside knowedge you have of his innocence.

You are here defending him b/c he went to your college.

Period. End of sentence.

What kind of defense is that? "Vick couldn't of possibly done this b/c he went to Virginia Tech".

:wtf:

Face it. If Vick were a former Demon Deacon or Tar Heel, you'd be right here, ready to throw that key away at his conviction along with the rest of this 'ilk'. :)

And I noticed that you didn't dispute my charge that if Vick DOES get convicted, and if he got convicted of 49 other charges, you would still be here defending him.

Not b/c of any legal stances, but b/c he is your Virginia Tech boy.

So get off your high horse. It is too glaringly Hokie purple. :)

Still?

Yes, I'm voicing my concerns because he's a part of the Virginia Tech family. We Hokies tend to stick together.

If Vick did not go to Tech, I wouldn't be saying a damn thing. But I wouldn't be crucifying him either. When the Duke lax players were convicted by the media frenzy and the court of public opinion, I just shook my head in disgust. Was it because I knew they were innocent? No. It was because I was disgusted at how impressionable people are and how quickly they can be led astray by a media blitz before all facts are even covered.

Vick's situation is no different. Read through this thread. He's already been found guilty by the majority of people on this board, you included, and frankly, you don't know a GD thing about this case regardless of what you read on the "smoking gun".

If he's found guilty.......well........we'll cross that bridge when we get there. Your problem is, you've already crossed that bridge.

And if you think Hokies are "purple", your vision truly is as skewed as I thought it was.

[Zen-like Todd]

Still?

Yes, I'm voicing my concerns because he's a part of the Virginia Tech family. We Hokies tend to stick together.

By failing to hold members of your "family" to a high standard, you are damning your own community, and setting a poor example as a representative of said community.


If Vick did not go to Tech, I wouldn't be saying a damn thing.
So you are admitting your bias. Given that, you should just stop right now.

But I wouldn't be crucifying him either. When the Duke lax players were convicted by the media frenzy and the court of public opinion, I just shook my head in disgust. Was it because I knew they were innocent? No. It was because I was disgusted at how impressionable people are and how quickly they can be led astray by a media blitz before all facts are even covered.

The circumstances are not remotely similar.

[turbodiesel#44]

Still?

Yes, I'm voicing my concerns because he's a part of the Virginia Tech family. We Hokies tend to stick together.

If Vick did not go to Tech, I wouldn't be saying a damn thing. But I wouldn't be crucifying him either. When the Duke lax players were convicted by the media frenzy and the court of public opinion, I just shook my head in disgust. Was it because I knew they were innocent? No. It was because I was disgusted at how impressionable people are and how quickly they can be led astray by a media blitz before all facts are even covered.

Vick's situation is no different. Read through this thread. He's already been found guilty by the majority of people on this board, you included, and frankly, you don't know a GD thing about this case regardless of what you read on the "smoking gun".

If he's found guilty.......well........we'll cross that bridge when we get there. Your problem is, you've already crossed that bridge.

And if you think Hokies are "purple", your vision truly is as skewed as I thought it was.

That nut case at Tech that mass murdered was a Hokie, and he was never convicted of anything. I suppose you support him too.

[Chiquita703]

Originally Posted by hokie4redskins
I am ashamed of myself, but only because you say so.

:laugh:

And the fact that you think I SHOULD be ashamed of myself indicates that you already see Vick as guilty.

Contradicting one of the founding tenets of this great country, Todd? You should be ashamed of yourself.


You should be ashamed of yourself.....Vick is guilty of something. I have the 19 page indicment and maybe he's not guilty of all the things on this report. But I don't think he had no idea this was going on. The FBI does not get involved unless they have some kind of proof against him, obviuosly they do. Maybe you should read this and tell me it would not make you sick to your stomach to read about dogs being shot to death with a .22 caliber and drowned. You point is pointless.



I never did it. Not only is your position shameful, but your reading skills are apparently horrible. You are in the wrong, and in an indefensible position. Stop wasting the board's time by attempting to spin yourself out of this one.


That guy is obviously retarded why would he want to defend somebody that MURDERS dogs. Guilty or not guilty Michael Vick was involved in this somehow and anybody that wants to say He's guilty until proven guilty, that is BS. What happened with OJ, he was guilty but he's out here writing books on " If I did it" So much for the law. I had to take it there because I can't believe this guy is trying to defend Vick....

[hokie4redskins]

That nut case at Tech that mass murdered was a Hokie, and he was never convicted of anything. I suppose you support him too.

I can't believe I'm even dignifying this post with a response.

Cho was no Hokie. Hokies do not murder their own. Comparing the tragedy that claimed 32 HOKIES with Vick's situation is deplorable. You're a disgrace.

[skins4me58203]

That nut case at Tech that mass murdered was a Hokie, and he was never convicted of anything. I suppose you support him too.



You are officially a f'ing idiot.

[Zen-like Todd]

I can't believe I'm even dignifying this post with a response.

Cho was no Hokie. Hokies do not murder their own. Comparing the tragedy that claimed 32 HOKIES with Vick's situation is deplorable. You're a disgrace.


Now you're just being completely ridiculous. He was a Hokie. As heinous and awful as those acts were, they came from a member of the community. Accepting that and realizing that is a necessity. What you said makes no sense. It's like saying "He's not an american, americans don't murder their own". It's just a completely meaningless and incorrect statement, both literally and figuratively.

[turbodiesel#44]

Cho was no Hokie. Hokies do not murder their own. .

But they can torture innocent animals to death for fun and profit, and that's AOK? No comparison with the tradgedy of the loss of human life, but the principle is there. Cho was a Hokie, like it or not.

[hokie4redskins]

You are officially a f'ing idiot.

What he said.

[SkinsGuy]

Still?

Yes, I'm voicing my concerns because he's a part of the Virginia Tech family. We Hokies tend to stick together.

If Vick did not go to Tech, I wouldn't be saying a damn thing. But I wouldn't be crucifying him either. When the Duke lax players were convicted by the media frenzy and the court of public opinion, I just shook my head in disgust. Was it because I knew they were innocent? No. It was because I was disgusted at how impressionable people are and how quickly they can be led astray by a media blitz before all facts are even covered.

Vick's situation is no different. Read through this thread. He's already been found guilty by the majority of people on this board, you included, and frankly, you don't know a GD thing about this case regardless of what you read on the "smoking gun".

If he's found guilty.......well........we'll cross that bridge when we get there. Your problem is, you've already crossed that bridge.

And if you think Hokies are "purple", your vision truly is as skewed as I thought it was.

No, you won't cross cross any bridge. You'll stay right there in Hokieville. :)

I didn't buy the Duke case just days after it broke b/c that case smelled bad almost immeadiately.

See this for what it is. Vick bought that property himself. None of that stuff was there when he bought it. The buildings used in the dogfighting ring were built and the equipment found there were there after Vick bought the property.

You think Vick had that property for FIVE years, and had NO clue what was going on there? :rolleyes:

Even if by some incredible circumstance he wasn't involved, he had to have known what was going on there. It is HIS property.

To let this atrocious criminal behavior happen for years, on your own property, and not do anything about it, would make him as guilty and reprehensible as the ones who were participating.

However, I believe Vick is FAR more involved than simply owning the property.

But I'm sure you don't care. You are to busy wrapping yourself in the Hokie flag. :)

[Destino]

I'm sorry but killing a dog doesn't compare to killing a child. You are so far out of wack.
I dislike statements like this. Finish your thought please. It’s not as bad as harming a child, on this much we agree. I’d like to know however how bad you do think it is.

If is as bad as stealing a car?
Robbing a house?
Fraud?
Selling drugs?

What?

You want to tell us what crimes it’s not like, well finish the thought. Tell us where you stand instead of picking at someone else’s position. Personally I think it’s absolutely disgusting and the fact that it’s a felony coupled with the interstate gambling leads me to the conclusion that this is very serious. Personally I find raising dogs only to brutally torture and kill them to shock the conscience. It’s a level of brutality not welcome in this country or this state.

I hope he serves more then 4 years for this and has his career absolutely ruined by it. He deserves that and more for what he’s done in my opinion .

[ouvan59]

From ESPN:

Would Vick be sent to jail if he is convicted?


Yes. It's hard to imagine any other outcome. The charges are serious, and the evidence against Vick presented at trial will be nasty. The government's case includes evidence that Vick and his cohorts "tested" pit bulls for ferocity. If the dogs failed the test, the indictment charges, they were executed by hanging or drowning. In one case, with Vick present, the indictment says a dog was slammed to the ground until it was dead. In another incident, a dog was soaked with a hose and then electrocuted. Those aren't the sort of transgressions that lead to probation and community service. It's the kind of behavior that results in punishment, and the punishment will be jail time.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2940312

Maybe your right, I just got through reading the whole 19 page indictment and it is extremely detailed and incredibly damning.

[Fred Jones]

Wilbon writes an interesting article about Vick

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/17/AR2007071701893.html


In a faceless league, Vick is one of the few NFL faces that registers. Favre, Brady, Peyton Manning, T.O., McNabb, Vick. That's the short list.
Everybody knows Vick. "There's a dramatic difference between an NFL player and an NFL quarterback," Cornwell said. "The significance a quarterback has to his team and to the league is tremendous."


You can't just fly in for hearings and play, the way Kobe Bryant did -- not in the NFL, where life on the field is more complicated and where owners and league executives are much less tolerant. Vick, plain and simple, is in a mess, the kind that will require a lot more than quarterback skills to get out of.

I am thinking that the Commish almost has to take action.

[hokie4redskins]

However, I believe Vick is FAR more involved than simply owning the property.

Time will tell.

But I'm sure you don't care. You are to busy wrapping yourself in the Hokie flag. :)

Damn right. :D

[ABQCOWBOY]

I am thinking that the Commish almost has to take action.

I don't really think he'll be able to do much until this thing actually goes to court.

This is not a local jurisditction thing, it's Federal. The Feds have a case and they will not want details of there findings made public, which would almost have to happen if Goodell suspended Vick IMO. I would not be surprised to see the Feds issue a gag order until such time as this has gone to trial. JMO.

[megared]

And if Vick is found guilty or pleads guilty to these crimes, I can assure he is going to get a lot more than a 4 game suspension and a 250k fine.

In fact, how the NFL deals with him will be the least of his worries.

We've seen time & time again how these things go...defendants get bombarded with felony charges to cop out to a misdemeanor. He may get the max fines for whatever the new charges are that he'll plead guilty to...

He won't get jailtime. Even if he gets upwards of $1 million in fines & lawyer fees...it's a drop in the bucket to his $37 mil bonus he just got...

He'll get a deal from prosecutors.

The FEDs definitely have a reliable inside source to come up with such details. Doesn't mean that they have evidence (other than carcasses)...this sounds like a case reliant on the word of informants...

[turbodiesel#44]

I can't believe I'm even dignifying this post with a response.

Cho was no Hokie. Hokies do not murder their own. Comparing the tragedy that claimed 32 HOKIES with Vick's situation is deplorable. You're a disgrace.

No, you have disgraced the Hokie nation by implying that being a Hokie makes you immune to punishment for displaying despicable human behavior. Being a Hokie does not place you above humanity, but you seem to think so. No matter your wishes, the world knows Cho and Vick were both Hokies.

[Fred Jones]

I don't really think he'll be able to do much until this thing actually goes to court.

This is not a local jurisditction thing, it's Federal. The Feds have a case and they will not want details of there findings made public, which would almost have to happen if Goodell suspended Vick IMO. I would not be surprised to see the Feds issue a gag order until such time as this has gone to trial. JMO.

You are probably right which means the league won't do anything because to do so would imply guilt.

I am curious as to when the trial date is. Vick's lawyers I assume want the trial in February after the season.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Maybe your right, I just got through reading the whole 19 page indictment and it is extremely detailed and incredibly damning.

I think that most people believe the Feds stepped in when the local Maybarry Sherriff's office was slow to react. The truth is that the Feds have been watching Vick for some time. There has been at least one Senator driving this for a good two years. I honestly believe that the Feds have been building a case since the last time they tried to get Vick on Dog Fighting charges. Almost had him two years ago for the same thing, if I recall. I think the Feds have a great deal more on him then anybody suspects.

[hokie4redskins]

Well, Michael Wilbon agrees with me.

If we learned anything from the case of the accused Duke lacrosse players, it's to not jump to conclusions based on charges that have yet to be proved.

[Winning Season Please!]

He is hosed. There is over a 95% conviction rate in federal cases.

To the Hokie Homer who keeps screaming "innocent until proven guility": you don't know what you are talking about. That phrase refers to the burden of proof at trial, which rests with the prosecutor, not the defendant. It is a legal principle that about what quantum of proof must be shown before the state can convict an individual for crimes.

It does not mean that an individual is in fact innocent until prove otherwise. He can very well be guilty now. He just can't be convicted until the state proves it.

You are conflating legal principles regarding burdens of prof with moral condemnations based on evidence.

Notice that the Hokie Homer has ignored this post.;)

Vick has proven he is a piece of $h*t before this happened (the bird, ron mexico, the water bottle). If you really think he was not involved in this in some capacity, then you are a blind fool. :cool:

If he is found guilty then a big :cheers: and :applause: for the maximum penalty.

If he is not suspended right away by the commish then I think he looses all credibility with his new conduct policy. To suspend pacman (who is a thug and needs to be suspended) without being convicted and then wait to "see" if Vick is found guilty would be maddening!:mad:

:2cents:

[skins4me58203]

I think that most people believe the Feds stepped in when the local Maybarry Sherriff's office was slow to react. The truth is that the Feds have been watching Vick for some time. There has been at least one Senator driving this for a good two years. I honestly believe that the Feds have been building a case since the last time they tried to get Vick on Dog Fighting charges. Almost had him two years ago for the same thing, if I recall. I think the Feds have a great deal more on him then anybody suspects.\


So why are they raiding the house for drugs? Seems fishy....

[Ellis]

I'm sure Michael Vick's reaction to all these allegations is something like...

http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/Michael-Vick-R.article.jpg



If he was innocent... he should have and WOULD HAVE come out publicly denying any involvement and then said that he'd fight all the charges. But... he didn't...

[Winning Season Please!]

Well, Michael Wilbon agrees with me.

I am happy for you now that you feel validated...we all are.:doh:

[RFK Lives]

You are probably right which means the league won't do anything because to do so would imply guilt.

I am curious as to when the trial date is. Vick's lawyers I assume want the trial in February after the season.
The Federal Courts in Richmond are known as the Rocket Docket. The AP article suggests a trial in as little as 4-6 months. Of course, 6 would put in January and I doubt the Falcons make the playoffs so you could be right.

[ABQCOWBOY]

We've seen time & time again how these things go...defendants get bombarded with felony charges to cop out to a misdemeanor. He may get the max fines for whatever the new charges are that he'll plead guilty to...

He won't get jailtime. Even if he gets upwards of $1 million in fines & lawyer fees...it's a drop in the bucket to his $37 mil bonus he just got...

He'll get a deal from prosecutors.

The FEDs definitely have a reliable inside source to come up with such details. Doesn't mean that they have evidence (other than carcasses)...this sounds like a case reliant on the word of informants...


The Feds don't opperate that way. Local courts do plea a lot more because they are under such burden to get things done and get convictions. A Federal Grand Jury doens't opperate that way. They go to the mate to get you and it's not with the express purpose of allowing you to plea down. They are in the business of putting you away. The only chance Vick has of a plea, IMO, is to give the Feds somebody bigger then he is. The problem here is that I don't believe that person is out there. These Dog Fighting opperations are based around the ability to finance this kind of thing. That means having a steady source of ready cash. Taking Vicks millions out of the equation is big. The Feds have a +90% conviction rate, if I remember correctly. They aren't in this to let Vick off. They're in this to nail him. RICO is probably where this is headed and if thats the case, he's going to do time. Serious time.

[Rocky21]

Cho was no Hokie. Hokies do not murder their own. Comparing the tragedy that claimed 32 HOKIES with Vick's situation is deplorable. You're a disgrace.

No, you have disgraced the Hokie nation by implying that being a Hokie makes you immune to punishment for displaying despicable human behavior. Being a Hokie does not place you above humanity, but you seem to think so. No matter your wishes, the world knows Cho and Vick were both Hokies. Pwned!

[Hooper]

Wilbon is right.

But that was a state case with a shady DA. This is the federal govt. Vick owned a house where all this stuff went on -- no matter what evidence the feds provide, people are always going to believe he was heavily involved.

No matter what you think of dogfighting or this case, Vick is screwed. The majority of the general public thinks his alleged crimes are heinous and he is a scumbag -- if you own a football team, it's bad business for Vick to be your qb. He'll be out of Atlanta sooner than later.

[ABQCOWBOY]

\


So why are they raiding the house for drugs? Seems fishy....

The Feds didn't do that. It was the local DA who OK'd that, if I'm not mistaken. Guns, drugs and gambling are typically commen to Dog Fighting venues. It could be as simple as the local guys stepping on an on-going investigation. Might be that the Feds simply decided to step in now rather then letting Barny Fife screw up the case further.

[hokie4redskins]

Notice that the Hokie Homer has ignored this post.;)

Vick has proven he is a piece of $h*t before this happened (the bird, ron mexico, the water bottle). If you really think he was not involved in this in some capacity, then you are a blind fool. :cool:

If he is found guilty then a big :cheers: and :applause: for the maximum penalty.

If he is not suspended right away by the commish then I think he looses all credibility with his new conduct policy. To suspend pacman (who is a thug and needs to be suspended) without being convicted and then wait to "see" if Vick is found guilty would be maddening!:mad:

:2cents:

Didn't ignore it. Just thought it was ridiculous. Does NOT change the fact that the charges against Vick have not yet been proven. The fact is, he's innocent until proven otherwise. The charges are what they are; charges. But they have to be PROVEN. Will that stop people from making their own prejudiced presumptions? Nope. Will these prejudices stop me from defending someone who has yet to be found guilty? Nope.

So it seems we're back to where we started.

[hokie4redskins]

No, you have disgraced the Hokie nation by implying that being a Hokie makes you immune to punishment for displaying despicable human behavior. Being a Hokie does not place you above humanity, but you seem to think so. No matter your wishes, the world knows Cho and Vick were both Hokies.

Well, it's clear you come from the shallow end of the gene pool. Good luck to you.

:thumbsup:

[hokie4redskins]

Pwned!


I'm devastated.

:rolleyes:

[macnoke03]

Didn't ignore it. Just thought it was ridiculous. Does NOT change the fact that the charges against Vick have not yet been proven. The fact is, he's innocent until proven otherwise. The charges are what they are; charges. But they have to be PROVEN. Will that stop people from making their own prejudiced presumptions? Nope. Will these prejudices stop me from defending someone who has yet to be found guilty? Nope.

So it seems we're back to where we started.

Why are you even trying anymore? You have been :owned: so many times in this thread it's laughable.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Didn't ignore it. Just thought it was ridiculous. Does NOT change the fact that the charges against Vick have not yet been proven. The fact is, he's innocent until proven otherwise. The charges are what they are; charges. But they have to be PROVEN. Will that stop people from making their own prejudiced presumptions? Nope. Will these prejudices stop me from defending someone who has yet to be found guilty? Nope.

So it seems we're back to where we started.

I agree with you that your innocent until proven guilty but the fact that Feds have a 95% conviction rate tells you that they pretty much don't attempt to prosecute unless they have you. These guys have a lot of evidence against Vick, just on the surface. They have at least 4 witnesses that will testify that Vick is the man. This is before they get anybody in the immediate opperation to roll over on him and believe me, that will happen. I respect your statements here but honestly, the Feds don't do this unless they got ya.

Unlike local courts or investigative bodies, they are not elected officials. They are appointed. This means that they don't have to reach for convictions. They basically do there job very systematically. Then, they present what they have and a decision is made to go forward based on there belief that they can get a conviction.

[Hooper]

I feel bad for the Falcons and their fans. This season is going to be a nightmare.

[hokie4redskins]

Why are you even trying anymore? You have been :owned: so many times in this thread it's laughable.

Is that what people do when they have nothing else to offer? Claim "ownage"?

Tell you what, Joke. If YOU "own" me, I'll leave. I'm still waiting.........

:laugh:

[Winning Season Please!]

Didn't ignore it. Just thought it was ridiculous. Does NOT change the fact that the charges against Vick have not yet been proven. The fact is, he's innocent until proven otherwise. The charges are what they are; charges. But they have to be PROVEN. Will that stop people from making their own prejudiced presumptions? Nope. Will these prejudices stop me from defending someone who has yet to be found guilty? Nope.

So it seems we're back to where we started.

Question...what will you say when he is suspended from football? What will you say when he is convicted?

[hokie4redskins]

I agree with you that your innocent until proven guilty but the fact that Feds have a 95% conviction rate tells you that they pretty much don't attempt to prosecute unless they have you. These guys have a lot of evidence against Vick, just on the surface. They have at least 4 witnesses that will testify that Vick is the man. This is before they get anybody in the immediate opperation to roll over on him and believe me, that will happen. I respect your statements here but honestly, the Feds don't do this unless they got ya.

Unlike local courts or investigative bodies, they are not elected officials. They are appointed. This means that they don't have to reach for convictions. They basically do there job very systematically. Then, they present what they have and a decision is made to go forward based on there belief that they can get a conviction.

I hear ya. But does anybody have a link or graph to back up that 95% success-rate claim? I might've missed that post. I have a hard time believing that a bureaucratic, red-tape stricken entity like the Federal government can claim 95% successes in anything they pursue. Not to mention, you have to add the high-profile factor of Vick to the equation. Also, these so-called "informants" were probably heavily-bribed in interrogation. The feds probably lured them into saying exactly what they wanted them to say. It's still a "their word" vs. "Vick's word" situation. Any high-priced defense lawyer should be able to get this thrown out.

Again, we'll see.

[Bacon]

I feel bad for the Falcons and their fans. This season is going to be a nightmare.

You should check out their boards; everyone is expecting a sucky season.

[Mooka]

Does anyone know by what percentage dogfighting around the nation has decreased since they caught Vick and his people? I seriously doubt there's any significant change.

There are no federal indictments for dog fighting unless you're Michael Vick.

[Zen-like Todd]

I hear ya. But does anybody have a link or graph to back up that 95% success-rate claim?


http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/cityregion/s_464095.html


Beating a federal rap not easy
By Jason Cato
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Monday, July 31, 2006

Like Las Vegas, the federal court system isn't built on winners.

About 95 percent of federal criminal defendants plead guilty. Of the remaining few who fight in court, nearly nine of 10 are convicted, according to national statistics.

But, on rare occasions, defendants go to trial, win and walk free.

Meet Ryan Schneiderlochner and James Grosjean.

Schneiderlochner, 34, a former Plum police officer, was acquitted July 24 of witness tampering. On the same day, another jury found Grosjean, vice president of a Collier construction company, not guilty of in a multimillion-dollar kickback scheme involving Allegheny Power and two local hospitals.

Many people familiar with Pittsburgh's federal court said they cannot remember another time when two acquittals came in the same week, much less on the same day.

"The odds are pretty stacked against defendants once an indictment is issued; that pretty much seals their fate," said Mark Allenbaugh, a Huntington Beach, Calif., lawyer and nationally recognized expert on the federal court system. "Once the indictment is issued, conviction is almost guaranteed."

Between 2000 and 2005, 99 percent of the 435,000 federal criminal defendants prosecuted nationwide were convicted. The conviction rate was the same for the 2,130 criminal defendants prosecuted during that period in the Western District of Pennsylvania.

Of the 420 people prosecuted last year in the Western District, 415 were found guilty by plea or jury, according to the Administrative Office of U.S. Courts.

A high conviction rate might spell tough-on-crime for some, but not for attorney Paul Boas, who defended Schneiderlochner.

"A 90-plus percent conviction rate isn't something that should be applauded. I think it's something you should worry about," Boas said. "That's what you see in totalitarian regimes."

He said Congress and the U.S. Supreme Court in recent decades have made it easier for federal prosecutors. He doesn't blame prosecutors for using weapons they're provided, but he thinks it has skewed the federal court system.

"Taking away someone's freedoms should never be easy," Boas said. "Unfortunately, it's become way too easy."

In federal court, charges typically are brought only when prosecutors are convinced they can get a conviction or plea. That leads to far fewer cases filed each year than state court, where more than 95 percent of criminal cases are handled.

While local federal prosecutors disposed of 420 criminal cases in 2005, more than 16,000 criminal cases were handled in Allegheny County Common Pleas Court.

U.S. Attorney Mary Beth Buchanan said plea deals are attractive to most federal defendants because her office prosecutes only cases that have been thoroughly investigated and evaluated. Federal prosecutors often work from the beginning with investigators, such as FBI agents, to build cases from the ground up -- a luxury not always enjoyed by county district attorneys.

Once defendants see the evidence, Buchanan said, most recognize they'd be better off pleading guilty.

Those found guilty at trial often face tougher sentences for causing the government to expend additional resources -- and for not taking breaks provided by federal sentencing guidelines and prosecutors for pleading guilty.

For example, a federal drug raid of a Shadyside apartment in February 2005 turned up a makeshift meth lab in a unit occupied by a Ross police officer and his girlfriend. Each was charged with three counts of conspiring to make methamphetamine and possessing the necessary equipment.

The officer, Michael Baird, pleaded guilty after striking a deal to have two charges dropped. U.S. District Judge Alan Bloch limited Baird's sentence to four months of time served, plus one year of probation -- including six months of electronic monitoring -- and a $2,000 fine.

His girlfriend, Jennifer Paczan, was found guilty by a jury. Bloch sentenced her to 33 months in prison.

Former U.S. Attorney Frederick Thieman said defendants shouldn't face tougher sentences just because they went to trial.

"There's a ridiculous cost to exercising your constitutional right to go to trial," Thieman said. "The stakes are too high."

Buchanan said defendants always have the right to go to trial.

"If a defendant believes they did not commit the crime as charged, or if they believe the government cannot prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt, then a defendant absolutely has the right to a jury trial," Buchanan said.

Those who lose shouldn't expect leniency after the fact, Buchanan said.

"They can't have it both ways," she said.

For Grosjean, the construction company executive acquitted last week, there was no alternative other than fighting the charges, said his attorney, Philip Ignelzi. Grosjean turned down a deal on the eve of trial to plead guilty and receive probation, Ignelzi said.

"Pleading guilty was never an option, and we said that from Day One," Ignelzi said. "But it's a tremendous roll of the dice, even when you have a defendable case."

[Hooper]

Here's another problem for Vick: because of who he is and the spotlight on this case, the Feds are not going to let him off with a slap on the wrist plea bargain. He'll have to plead guilty to some serious stuff most likely. At the same time, does he really want to risk this thing going to trial? What if he's convicted? Federal sentencing guidelines are no joke -- he would definitely go to prison.

[Winning Season Please!]

I hear ya. But does anybody have a link or graph to back up that 95% success-rate claim? I might've missed that post. I have a hard time believing that a bureaucratic, red-tape stricken entity like the Federal government can claim 95% successes in anything they pursue. Not to mention, you have to add the high-profile factor of Vick to the equation. Also, these so-called "informants" were probably heavily-bribed in interrogation. The feds probably lured them into saying exactly what they wanted them to say. It's still a "their word" vs. "Vick's word" situation. Any high-priced defense lawyer should be able to get this thrown out.

Again, we'll see.

Do you hope Vick is innocent or just that he will beat the charges? Sounds like the latter to me and if that is the case then...:slap:

[hokie4redskins]

Question...what will you say when he is suspended from football? What will you say when he is convicted?

Suspended from football? I'll attribute that to Goodell's Orwellian NFL dictatorship. Even with Pacman (and I hate Pacman), when, by all accounts, it seems a man could no longer walk because of him, I was surprised Goodell suspended him before he was even charged with anything.

I fully expect Vick to be suspended by Goodell. An NFL suspension, however, does not indicate proof of guilt. Goodell is not waiting for any verdicts. This is almost his own little policy of preemption. Pacman hadn't been convicted of anything when Goodell imposed the suspension.

When he is convicted? Don't you mean, IF he is convicted. See this is my whole point. Most everybody in this thread has already reached a verdict.

I'll cross that bridge IF it comes. As stated, most of you have already crossed that bridge.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I hear ya. But does anybody have a link or graph to back up that 95% success-rate claim? I might've missed that post. I have a hard time believing that a bureaucratic, red-tape stricken entity like the Federal government can claim 95% successes in anything they pursue. Not to mention, you have to add the high-profile factor of Vick to the equation. Also, these so-called "informants" were probably heavily-bribed in interrogation. The feds probably lured them into saying exactly what they wanted them to say. It's still a "their word" vs. "Vick's word" situation. Any high-priced defense lawyer should be able to get this thrown out.

Again, we'll see.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_327633.html

Criminals fear the federal system because there is no parole, stiffer penalties and a 98 percent conviction rate, Mullen and Buchanan said.

Here is a piece from an article speaking about a case that the ATF is prosecuted in Pittsburgh. The case is over illegal firearms but it does give a Federal Conviction Percentage of 98%.

In regards to the witnesses, doesn't matter. I will say with high confidence that the methodes used to obtain info from these witnesses will stand up in court. Chances are that they have already given testimony to the Grand Jury and that it has already been presented as evidence for justification of indictment. Basically, don't count on the Feds screwing up this case like the City of LA did with OJ. They are going to have all there ducks in a row and every one of them will be quacking on command.

[Ellis]

Suspended from football? I'll attribute that to Goodell's Orwellian NFL dictatorship. Even with Pacman (and I hate Pacman), when, by all accounts, it seems a man could no longer walk because of him, I was surprised Goodell suspended him before he was even charged with anything.

I fully expect Vick to be suspended by Goodell. An NFL suspension, however, does not indicate proof of guilt. Goodell is not waiting for any verdicts. This is almost his own little policy of preemption. Pacman hadn't been convicted of anything when Goodell imposed the suspension.

When he is convicted? Don't you mean, IF he is convicted. See this is my whole point. Most everybody in this thread has already reached a verdict.

I'll cross that bridge IF it comes. As stated, most of you have already crossed that bridge.

are you retarded?
:shhh:

[Boss_Hogg]

Several witnesses saw Vick at the dog fights, one even shouted out his name during a fight taping and was quickly "hushed" up by his posse.

I like VT and I used to cheer for Vick but this whole things makes me want to vomit.

The evidence is there, the Duke laccrosse case was different in that it was fuzzy from day 1.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19814494/
-Have a look

[Bacon]

When he is convicted? Don't you mean, IF he is convicted.

Go ahead and live in a fantasy land, but 95% chance of conviction is pretty high.

[Capt Rich Fla]

I bet they wish they still had Matt Schaub!

Tough luck for Vick.Thank you! What a shame! Shaub was a better qb anyway. He may not have had the rushing yards, but the man had crazy skills. Just wait to see him play for the texans. They will not be the same pushovers anymore. Mark my words.

[turbodiesel#44]

You are officially a f'ing idiot.

What he said.

Sorry guys, as a peace offering, I have made you guys a new sig

[Winning Season Please!]

When he is convicted? Don't you mean, IF he is convicted. See this is my whole point. Most everybody in this thread has already reached a verdict.

I'll cross that bridge IF it comes. As stated, most of you have already crossed that bridge.

Ok IF...In reality I put that in there just to screw with you.

The fact that you must cross that bridge when you come to it proves that you have your hommer glasses on or you condone animal cruelty.:nono: IF he is convicted then he is a piece of :pooh: no matter if he is a Hookie, Falcon or even if he was a Redskin. He is a piece of :pooh: .

[Dirk Diggler]

I hear ya. But does anybody have a link or graph to back up that 95% success-rate claim? I might've missed that post. I have a hard time believing that a bureaucratic, red-tape stricken entity like the Federal government can claim 95% successes in anything they pursue. Not to mention, you have to add the high-profile factor of Vick to the equation. Also, these so-called "informants" were probably heavily-bribed in interrogation. The feds probably lured them into saying exactly what they wanted them to say. It's still a "their word" vs. "Vick's word" situation. Any high-priced defense lawyer should be able to get this thrown out.

Again, we'll see.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2940312

What do these federal charges mean for Michael Vick?

Vick is in real trouble. He is up against the might and majesty of the U.S. government with all of its agents, all of its investigative techniques, and all of its skilled prosecutors. If he has any doubts about the power and skill of the forces arrayed against him, he can call Scooter Libby, former chief of staff to Vice President Cheney, or he can call Lord Conrad Black, the disgraced media mogul now facing time in a federal penitentiary. If he still isn't convinced, he can call Jeff Skilling, the zillionaire Enron CEO who is now residing in a federal pen. All three of them hired brilliant (and expensive) lawyers. All three thought they could explain their way out from under federal charges. And all three were convicted. Vick can, and probably will, hire some of America's best defense lawyers, but they will face a serious battle

[hokie4redskins]

In federal court, charges typically are brought only when prosecutors are convinced they can get a conviction or plea. That leads to far fewer cases filed each year than state court, where more than 95 percent of criminal cases are handled.

So, I guess everybody believes everything they read in the newspaper? I'd like to see these "national statistics" the author is referring to.

Assuming the 95% is accurate, I can pretty much guarantee you the 5% of people who do indeed beat federal charges are bloody rich as all hell. Hmm, Vick is bloody rich as all hell. This would seem to work in his favor.

Another key word missed by a lot of you was "plea." I do not think Vick will be doing any time for this, IF he is indeed found guilty. They got his name on the indictment, and the best the Feds will hope for at this point is to get Vick and his lawyer to plea bargain, IF he was indeed guilty of something.

Again, we shall see.

[Winning Season Please!]

So, I guess everybody believes everything they read in the newspaper? I'd like to see these "national statistics" the author is referring to.

Assuming the 95% is accurate, I can pretty much guarantee you the 5% of people who do indeed beat federal charges are bloody rich as all hell. Hmm, Vick is bloody rich as all hell. This would seem to work in his favor.

Another key word missed by a lot of you was "plea." I do not think Vick will be doing any time for this, IF he is indeed found guilty. They got his name on the indictment, and the best the Feds will hope for at this point is to get Vick and his lawyer to plea bargain, IF he was indeed guilty of something.

Again, we shall see.

Again, it sounds like you don't care about innocence, just Vick getting off.:doh:

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I posted a link that was already posted from loljocks.com.

Anyway, I hope Vick ends up with a pit bull for a cellmate.

[Capt Rich Fla]

No, I just meant that he hasn't been CHARGED with anything yet... I mean he's only been indicted by a grand jury... I mean don't villify the man until you've got the "beyond a shadow of a doubt"....

I actually had a lengthy conversation with a dog, and here's what I learned...

Sandpaper is not smooth
A roof is over my head
Given the choice of being a chiuaua in Beverly Hills or a Pitt Bull in a rough inner city neighborhood who has to kill his own to survive, the dog adamantly said: "Rough"

Dogs would rather be in that situation...With everyone stepping up that shadow of a doubt is turning into an anvil cloud. You can feel the air starting to chill a bit and hear the distant thunder.

[Stophovr6]

http://loljocks.blogspot.com/2007/07/falcons-react-to-michael-vicks.html

This is funny until you scroll to the bottom...at which point you may cry.

I posted that some pages back, did you get it from KSK? I love KSK.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Suspended from football? I'll attribute that to Goodell's Orwellian NFL dictatorship. Even with Pacman (and I hate Pacman), when, by all accounts, it seems a man could no longer walk because of him, I was surprised Goodell suspended him before he was even charged with anything.

I fully expect Vick to be suspended by Goodell. An NFL suspension, however, does not indicate proof of guilt. Goodell is not waiting for any verdicts. This is almost his own little policy of preemption. Pacman hadn't been convicted of anything when Goodell imposed the suspension.

When he is convicted? Don't you mean, IF he is convicted. See this is my whole point. Most everybody in this thread has already reached a verdict.

I'll cross that bridge IF it comes. As stated, most of you have already crossed that bridge.

Suspension, IMO, is the very least of Vicks worries. They got him. Of particular importance in this case is the fact that they have made this Conspiracy. Because this has been clasified as conspiracy, it means that they don't have to prove Vick new about any of this. It means that this case can be taken forward against Vick and he can be held responsible for anything that happened at his legal residency. Basically, Vicks defense posture suggesting that he didn't know what was going on and that his family took advantage of him will not fly. He's screwed.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I posted that some pages back, did you get it from KSK? I love KSK.

Yea...I did.

KSK is awesome.

[Stophovr6]

I wonder what kind of trouble Vick would be getting into right now if he wasn't a wealthy superstar.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

You mean, like the Duke rape case? Yeah, that seemed pretty "damaging" too. Forget the trial!!!! Let the public crucify Vick the way they were willing to do to the Duke Lax players!!!! Screw the justice system!! Screw "innocent until proven guilty"!!!!


As an attorney, I want to thank you for pointing out the number one reason why cases like the Duke lacrosse case are important and why it was extremely important that Nifong be punished for his actions. 98 percent of the time, prosecutors carefully consider the evidence and present a solid case. 2 percent of the time, they go off the reservation. Unfortunately, that 2 percent of the time becomes representative of the entire system.

From the time taken in preparing this and from the detailed provided, it looks like the federal prosecutors are very well prepared. I get no impression that this is a politically-minded witch hunt.

[Vinnick]

I wonder what kind of trouble Vick would be getting into right now if he wasn't a wealthy superstar.

He would just be a punk betting 50 bones on a dog fight.