Michael Irvin is a crybaby *****

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

and Chris Collinsworth is his gay lover. **** both of them.

I mean Jesus Christ, they are acting like the speech he gave is up there with "We have nothing to fear but fear itself," or "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country," etc etc etc.

Shut the **** up. All the ****er did was cry about how big a ****ing fiend he was. **** makes me sick.

[jbooma]

and Chris Collinsworth is his gay lover. **** both of them.

I mean Jesus Christ, they are acting like the speech he gave is up there with "We have nothing to fear but fear itself," or "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country," etc etc etc.

Shut the **** up.

You contribute absolutley nothing on this board but a terrible mouth and no knowledge at all.

If you listend to the whole speech then maybe you will see why he got so emotional.

You need to grow and up and contribute something on this board.

[Who Del]

jbooma misspelled the word speech so his post doesn't count (but i guess the other 29K do)

As for this thread. I agree. Everyone knows your and my feelings on the Cowboys. It's entrenched in ES lore as a Read Me at the top of this forum. So please, Mike, do us all a favor. And shut the **** up. Forever.

[One Shot]

**** this, **** that, just.....**** EVERYTHING

[kevin11]

I didnt watch the speech but i saw that brief segment of it. I personaly thought that segment was actually pretty good. I'll admit that i was thinking that when they invited him up there. But, when a person that makes some mistakes in this life and then he tells his kids to not make them, you have to like that speech if you have a heart.

[Who Del]

I didnt watch the speech but i saw that brief segment of it. I personaly thought that segment was actually pretty good. I'll admit that i was thinking that when they invited him up there. But, when a person that makes some mistakes in this life and then he tells his kids to not make them, you have to like that speech if you have a heart.

What is he going to say?

"Kids, I tried crack and while I was arrested for it, I'm not going to knock the experience. Really what I'm saying is "Don't let life tie you down... ok?"

[jbooma]

What is he going to say?

"Kids, I tried crack and while I was arrested for it, I'm not going to knock the experience. Really what I'm saying is "Don't let life tie you down... ok?"

Typical philly fan no compasion :silly:


Why don't you watch the speech before you open your mouth :)

My posts count since they were not all in one thread :laugh:

[Who Del]

Typical philly fan no compasion :silly:


Why don't you watch the speech before you open your mouth :)

My posts count since they were not all in one thread :laugh:

I was too busy bashing him to my Eagle fan friends to watch the speech. It was a good time.

Someone once told me I'd go the way of jbooma. Not sure what they meant.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

jbooma misspelled the word speech so his post doesn't count (but i guess the other 29K do)

As for this thread. I agree. Everyone knows your and my feelings on the Cowboys. It's entrenched in ES lore as a Read Me at the top of this forum. So please, Mike, do us all a favor. And shut the **** up. Forever.
Yeah I didn't realize jbooma was a Cowboys fan. Whatever. And I'm sorry the *'s offended him so much. Oh well.

I stand by what I say. Emmitt seems like a decent guy. Aikman is one of the better announcers today (if not the best.) But Irvin is deplorable and disgusting in every aspect of life. Ugh.

And for anyone to sit there and talk like his speech, tears and emotion all of a sudden make him a good guy is a joke.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Oh God. Now here comes Deion with his "expert" opinion. **** him too.

[Dan T.]

EVEN when it's a Dallas Cowboy, the Hall of Fame induction ceremony is a time to set aside rivalries for a day to appreciate a player's contribution to the game. Michael Irvin was a pain in the ass to the Redskins for many years. Tomorrow we can hate him again. Today, applaud him as a football player.

Otherwise we're too short-sighted.

[jbooma]

Yeah I didn't realize jbooma was a Cowboys fan. Whatever. And I'm sorry the *'s offended him so much. Oh well.

I stand by what I say. Emmitt seems like a decent guy. Aikman is one of the better announcers today (if not the best.) But Irvin is deplorable and disgusting in every aspect of life. Ugh.

And for them to sit there and talk about his speech in the booth like tears and emotion all of a sudden make him a good guy is a joke.

I am not and all I have to say is watch the whole speech. When you sit up there and tell your kids on national television that you want them to grow up like other people and not like your father. Sorry but that takes balls and I give him a lot of respect.

He is a human and one that on national television can tell everyone how wrong he was on his greatest night when he didn't even have to mention it. That gets respect in my book.

[skinthemboys]

Irvins as fake as a 3 dollar bill. If you bought that BS, I got some ocean front property for ya in arizona.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

EVEN when it's a Dallas Cowboy, the Hall of Fame induction ceremony is a time to set aside rivalries for a day to appreciate a player's contribution to the game. Michael Irvin was a pain in the ass to the Redskins for many years. Tomorrow we can hate him again. Today, applaud him as a football player.

Otherwise we're too short-sighted.
I disagree. I will never applaud him. Today, tomorrow, the day after that, or 20 years from now.

[RedskinDan0557]

Didnt hear his speech and i have no plans to see it either. Irvin has no credibility.

**** Irvin, **** Dallas, and **** anyone else who thinks otherwise.

[Santana_Fan]

Oh God. Now here comes Deion with his "expert" opinion. **** him too.


It really cant be that serious

[Dan T.]

Didnt hear his speech and i have no plans to see it either. Irvin has no credibility.

**** Irvin, **** Dallas, and **** anyone else who thinks otherwise.

Congratualations, this post shows you are as relevant as the plot in a porno movie.

[bubba9497]

jbooma, :doh:


Irvin was 100% phony

Jerrah was a cartoon infomercial

[jbooma]

jbooma, :doh:


Irvin was 100% phony

Jerrah was a cartoon infomercial

Sorry that was far from phony and coming from you I thought you were better then that.

[Leonard Washington]

EVEN when it's a Dallas Cowboy, the Hall of Fame induction ceremony is a time to set aside rivalries for a day to appreciate a player's contribution to the game. Michael Irvin was a pain in the ass to the Redskins for many years. Tomorrow we can hate him again. Today, applaud him as a football player.

Otherwise we're too short-sighted.

I didnt watch the speech but i saw that brief segment of it. I personaly thought that segment was actually pretty good. I'll admit that i was thinking that when they invited him up there. But, when a person that makes some mistakes in this life and then he tells his kids to not make them, you have to like that speech if you have a heart.

i agree.

abbreviation guy, you lost some points with that one.

[phatSkins27]

**** this, **** that, just.....**** EVERYTHING

****ing A

[Santana_Fan]

To be honest, I didnt want to watch Irvin's speech, but after I watched it, I respected him alot more than I did.

[SWFLSkins]

Yeah I didn't realize jbooma was a Cowboys fan. Whatever. And I'm sorry the *'s offended him so much. Oh well.

I stand by what I say. Emmitt seems like a decent guy. Aikman is one of the better announcers today (if not the best.) But Irvin is deplorable and disgusting in every aspect of life. Ugh.

And for anyone to sit there and talk like his speech, tears and emotion all of a sudden make him a good guy is a joke.


______________________________-

While I agree with your thoughts on Emmitt and Aikman, I have trouble with your mind set regarding Irvin. When a person takes a personal risk in asking for forgivness of his past transgressions, and especially addressing his sons, I say that man will be forgiven. Thanks JC. As for you, judge not, unless of course you walk on water as well.

Micheal Irvin gained more respect from me this weekend than I thought imaginable. I never liked him or his style, and afterall he was a Cowboy as well. But I really thought the man truly was speaking from the heart as he was at the podium, apparently it feel on some deaf ears.

[Thetimeisnow]

Im no puke fan but that speech was real. Michael Irvin did a great job.

[skinthemboys]

he'll pick up another couple of charges in the next couple years. 1/2 hour gushy speeches are for hollywood. Who the hell goes on live TV to speek to their families about personal past problems. What a bunch of BS. I cant believe people buy it.

[SMOSS89]

I am one of the biggest Redskins fans out there, and thus I am one of the biggest Cowboy haters. However my hate for the Cowboys is on the field. When they are on the field, I hope they get blown out by the Redskins in every single embarassing way possible. Any good player on the Cowboys is the biggest jerk in my mind, on the field. However, off the field, I dont have negative feelings for any of those players. I dont wish for them to have personal turmoil or anything like that. So when I saw Irvins speech, I respected what he had to say as he admitted to being a broken man and vowed not to let it happen to the next generation of Irvins. I dont care who you root for, but you have to at least respect him for doing that. When he spoke about his on field achievements or how the Cowboys were the best, I got pissed. But when he was being real about his life I respected it. I feel like most of you should at least respect the fact that he was very real and profound. That is all.

[RedskinDan0557]

Congratualations, this post shows you are as relevant as the plot in a porno movie.

Or about as relevant as crackhead Irvings speech.

[Santana_Fan]

The way some of these Skin's fans act towards Irvin's speech is unreal.

[bubba9497]

Sorry that was far from phony and coming from you I thought you were better then that.



give it a rest, jbooma


Irvin is all about irvin, an has always conned people time and time again how "sincere" he is this time....


when he's busted again you'll see the light

[jrockster21]

First and foremost, **** Mike "Mr. Push-Off" Irvin. He's a crackhead POS who deserves no compassion. Second off, he should have never been giving that fake-ass speech to begin with - it should have been Art up there, giving a real speech. That **** was so fake - his entire face was wet. Who cries like that?? FAKE. Y'all bammas bought it hook, line and sinker. I bet you believe the crack pipe in his car was really his friend's, too. :laugh:


EVEN when it's a Dallas Cowboy, the Hall of Fame induction ceremony is a time to set aside rivalries for a day to appreciate a player's contribution to the game. Michael Irvin was a pain in the ass to the Redskins for many years. Tomorrow we can hate him again. Today, applaud him as a football player.

Otherwise we're too short-sighted.

Irvin will never get my applause. Never.

I disagree. I will never applaud him. Today, tomorrow, the day after that, or 20 years from now.

Now that - :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

My posts count since they were not all in one thread :laugh:

Gotta give props to the double Eagle fan/AHFB burn. BURRRNNNN. :laugh:

[Who Del]

The way some of these Skin's fans act towards Irvin's speech is unreal.

Yeah, it must be nice to play both sides of the coin whenever they feel like it.

Yesterday he was a "crackhead piece of **** Cowboy"

Today he is "Mr. Morality"

Disgusting.

[taylorcoreskin]

Sorry that was far from phony and coming from you I thought you were better then that.

That's actually a classic Bubba post. I don't know how you came to such an assumption.

[redsand521]

I skipped his speech. Sounds like I missed a lot.

[bubba9497]

That's actually a classic Bubba post. I don't know how you came to such an assumption.



I speak the truth


like it or not

[jbooma]

I speak the truth


like it not

you mean your truth, not the real truth :doh:

[Santana_Fan]

Yeah, it must be nice to play both sides of the coin whenever they feel like it.

Yesterday he was a "crackhead piece of **** Cowboy"

Today he is "Mr. Morality"

Disgusting.


My feelings on Irvin still arent changed (yet), but what I AM saying is, his speech was good.

[jbooma]

Yeah, it must be nice to play both sides of the coin whenever they feel like it.

Yesterday he was a "crackhead piece of **** Cowboy"

Today he is "Mr. Morality"

Disgusting.

who said he is "Mr. Morality"??? man you are putting words in others' mouths all anyone said was he was human last night and let it all out for everyone to see, you know something McNabb can't do :laugh: except in the superbowl when he lets it out for everyone to see :laugh:

[redsand521]

So what's wrong with someone liking his speech? That doesn't mean they think he's a good guy now.

[bubba9497]

you mean your truth, not the real truth :doh:

:rolleyes:

how many times have we had this stupid argument, and how many times after everything was said and done, come to find out I was absolutely right, and you were duped yet again??

100% of the time

again I speak the TRUTH.... like it or not... you want to believe Irvin is now a great guy, and completely sincere fine.... it wouldn't be the first time people have fell for Irvin's act... like I said down the road the real Irvin will resurface, and once again he will be remorseful, and be sincere, and someone else will want to believe him


the bottom line, actions speak louder than words

[kevin11]

:rolleyes:

how many times have we had this stupid argument, and how many times after everything was said and done, come to find out I was absolutely right, and you were duped yet again??

100% of the time

again I speak the TRUTH.... like it or not... you want to believe Irvin is now a great guy, and completely sincere fine.... it wouldn't be the first time people have fell for Irvin's act... like I said down the road the real Irvin will resurface, and once again he will be remorseful, and be sincere, and someone else will want to believe him


the bottom line, actions speak louder than words
I hate Irvin, but damn. Hes no longer a cowboy, but we all will hate him for his years against us. So, is this hate because he's a cowboy or a rich, drug addict?

[Santana_Fan]

First and foremost, **** Mike "Mr. Push-Off" Irvin. He's a crackhead POS who deserves no compassion. Second off, he should have never been giving that fake-ass speech to begin with - it should have been Art up there, giving a real speech. That **** was so fake - his entire face was wet. Who cries like that?? FAKE. Y'all bammas bought it hook, line and sinker. I bet you believe the crack pipe in his car was really his friend's, too. :laugh:


Nobody'll take it that far, to believe that the crackpipe was his friends', but there should come a time, when you should be able to respect somebody beyond football. He was inducted in the Hall Of Fame, how fake could it be that he's that emotional? Not saying that it had to be that way, but certain things affect people differently. If he came up like he said he did, and made it to the point where he is now, why wouldnt he be emotional that way? The part of the speech that would have caught anybody, was the part where he involved his kids. I dont have kids (of course), but any human could have respected his speech in that sense.


Yes, Art should be in the Hall, and I am still just as mad as everybody else is about it, but it's done and over with now, no reason in sitting here months later still arguing about it. Once again, I'm not going to say Irvin was the perfect role model for anybody, but the speech itself was good.

[bubba9497]

I hate Irvin, but damn. Hes no longer a cowboy, but we all will hate him for his years against us. So, is this hate because he's a cowboy or a rich, drug addict?


this isn't "hate" it is just the truth, Irvin is what he is, and has always been.

Having dealt with his type of person before, I am not easily swayed by phony sentiment.

[jbooma]

:rolleyes:

how many times have we had this stupid argument, and how many times after everything was said and done, come to find out I was absolutely right, and you were duped yet again??

100% of the time

Bubba stop living in your dream world, you have been wrong many times but you use your homerism as your excuse.

You don't get it.

Even if Irvin gets busted again that doesn't matter, he is a recovering drug addict do you have a clue what that means??

The fact he could sit there on national television and tell everyone what a ****up he was and tell his wife and kids that he was terrible to them and he doesn't deserve them, and tell his kids to look at others to be a role model and not him when HE DID NOT HAVE NOT TALKED ABOUT THAT showed a lot.

I respect what he did on the field not what he did off, but I respect a man even more when he takes the biggest stage and most important day of his life to tell everyone to not do what he did.

I would like to see you at your biggest achievement tell everone what a ****up you are, like you said actions are bigger then words.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Yeah, it must be nice to play both sides of the coin whenever they feel like it.

Yesterday he was a "crackhead piece of **** Cowboy"

Today he is "Mr. Morality"

Disgusting.
Come on dude. You're way off. He cried. HE ****ING CRIED!!!! And he gave his sons advice that he should have gave them in private instead of using their existence to garner sympathy. ****ING ADVICE!!!!

I'm starting a campaign to nominate him for the Nobel Prize. If you don't support it then you lose points and you add nothing to this forum. NOTHING!!!!

[bubba9497]

Bubba stop living in your dream world, you have been wrong many times but you use your homerism as your excuse.

You don't get it.

Even if Irvin gets busted again that doesn't matter, he is a recovering drug addict do you have a clue what that means??

The fact he could sit there on national television and tell everyone what a ****up he was and tell his wife and kids that he was terrible to them and he doesn't deserve them, and tell his kids to look at others to be a role model and not him when HE DID NOT HAVE NOT TALKED ABOUT THAT showed a lot.

I respect what he did on the field not what he did off, but I respect a man even more when he takes the biggest stage and most important day of his life to tell everyone to not do what he did.


Jbooma, just stop it, seriously ..... every time I point out something you don't want to hear... it's because I am a homer :jerk: whatever

you believe what you want....and as always we'll see who is right down the road,


do I know what a recovering drug addict is like.... I hope nobody ever has to realize what I have had to realize with peoples addictions... so don't try to lecture me, because as I have said.. I speak the truth


you are the one who doesn't have a clue... TALK is all he is about, that wasn't anything... what did he say, that everyone didn't already know for years..... talk on a national stage means nothing... it is ones actions day to day, when the attention is not on him, instead of talking to his wife on national TV... how about stop hanging out with the strippers and crack whores, and and not get busted with a crackpipe... instead of saying Don't do what I did (when you are getting a award showing what you did really didn't stop you) he has done all of this before..The apologies, the sincerity, the talking in the media

[bubba9497]

Come on dude. You're way off. He cried. HE ****ING CRIED!!!! And he gave his sons advice that he should have gave them in private instead of using their existence to garner sympathy. ****ING ADVICE!!!!



ding ding ding

[RobertGoulet]

I dont know Irvin personally so i cant judge his intentions or sincerity. What i will say is that he looked like he was more suffering from the "crack sweats" than the physical act of crying.

[drowland]

Come on dude. You're way off. He cried. HE ****ING CRIED!!!! And he gave his sons advice that he should have gave them in private instead of using their existence to garner sympathy. ****ING ADVICE!!!!

I'm starting a campaign to nominate him for the Nobel Prize. If you don't support it then you lose points and you add nothing to this forum. NOTHING!!!!

Yeah so Thurman Thomas shouldn't of proposed to his wife in the public eye. He used her to garner sympathy.

Bruce Matthews went on for 5 minutes talking about how much his brother meant to him, yet I guess he was just saying that so the public would think he really loves his brother.

I guess Charlie Sanders used the late memory of his mother so people would feel sorry for him.

Fact of the matter is this was the pinnacle of their careers and they went up there spoke their hearts to the world about the people they love. I don't know why that's so hard for some of you to understand.

[drowland]

Yeah so Thurman Thomas shouldn't of proposed to his wife in the public eye. He used her to garner sympathy.

Bruce Matthews went on for 5 minutes talking about how much his brother meant to him, yet I guess he was just saying that so the public would think he really loves his brother.

I guess Charlie Sanders spoke about the late memory of his mother so people would feel sorry for him.

Fact of the matter is this was the pinnacle of their careers and they went up there spoke their hearts to the world about the people they love. I don't know why that's so hard for some of you to understand.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Yeah so Thurman Thomas shouldn't of proposed to his wife in the public eye. He used her to garner sympathy.

Bruce Matthews went on for 5 minutes talking about how much his brother meant to him, yet I guess he was just saying that so the public would think he really loves his brother.

I guess Charlie Sanders used the late memory of his mother so people would feel sorry for him.

Fact of the matter is this was the pinnacle of their careers and they went up there spoke their hearts to the world about the people they love. I don't know why that's so hard for some of you to understand.
Yes because everyone and everyone's situation is the same.

There is no difference between a guy proposing to his wife and another guy telling his kids to not be a crackhead like him.

And I'm just keeping this simple.

[Santana_Fan]

Yes because everyone and everyone's situation is the same.

There is no difference between a guy proposing to his wife and another guy telling his kids to not be a crackhead like him.

And I'm just keeping this simple.


I guess you take this football thing too seriously.

[drowland]

Yes because everyone and everyone's situation is the same.

There is no difference between a guy proposing to his wife and another guy telling his kids to not be a crackhead like him.

And I'm just keeping this simple.

No, his words were be a better role model then he was. But I guess that was over your head. And I'm sure it's not the first time he's said it to them.

Again, the speeches these guys give is about telling the world about the people they love and who've supported them throughout.

[Killerbo]

Sorry, I call bull**** with the crying and all that crap..........made for TV special in my humble opinion. All for TV, that's all it was, a load of crock.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

No, his words were be a better role model then he was. But I guess that was over your head. And I'm sure it's not the first time he's said it to them.

Again, the speeches these guys give is about telling the world about the people they love and who've supported them throughout.
I guess it went over your head that by "be a better role model then he was" he means to not smoke crack and bang hookers all over the place, like he did.

[Ken]

You contribute absolutley nothing on this board but a terrible mouth and no knowledge at all.

If you listend to the whole speech then maybe you will see why he got so emotional.

You need to grow and up and contribute something on this board.
:applause:


Respect meter went up about tenfold.


:cheers:

[Ken]

Come on dude. You're way off. He cried. HE ****ING CRIED!!!! And he gave his sons advice that he should have gave them in private instead of using their existence to garner sympathy. ****ING ADVICE!!!!

I'm starting a campaign to nominate him for the Nobel Prize. If you don't support it then you lose points and you add nothing to this forum. NOTHING!!!!
I cried like a ***** watching him....

Doesn't that make me a wuss or something in your messed up world?

[BigDFan5]

Irvins speech was 100% real and 100% pure emotion speaking from the heart. He didnt even write a speech.


And for all the people making "crack" references do you realize how dumb you sound? cocaine yes, pot, yes, booze yes, hookers yup, but never has he been in trouble for crack. You sound stupid saying it over and over when you probably know you are wrong

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I cried like a ***** watching him....

Doesn't that make me a wuss or something in your messed up world?
Yes. Yes it does.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Irvins speech was 100% real and 100% pure emotion speaking from the heart. He didnt even write a speech.


And for all the people making "crack" references do you realize how dumb you sound? cocaine yes, pot, yes, booze yes, hookers yup, but never has he been in trouble for crack. You sound stupid saying it over and over when you probably know you are wrong
Awesome dude. I've always wanted to be able to go inside a person's thoughts and read their minds. You gotta teach me that sometime.

Eh, whatever. If it makes you feel better from now on I'll say coke not crack.

[BigDFan5]

Awesome dude. I've always wanted to be able to go inside a person's thoughts and read their minds. You gotta teach me that sometime.

Eh, whatever. If it makes you feel better from now on I'll say coke not crack.


Not about making me feel better, its about some of you guys not making yourselves look uneducated

[turbodiesel#44]

Airing your family problems like that in public is totally self-serving. If you screwed up raising your kids, you need to talk to your kids. Not some TV camera. And Irvin wasn't smoking crack. He was free basing. There is a difference. Crack is for the ghetto.

[TheGift]

Irvin is such a fake *****.

[kevin11]

Well, if hes really fake. I think he should have been an actor cause he fooled me and maybe everybody except some of the fans that are too busy bashing irvin.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Not about making me feel better, its about some of you guys not making yourselves look uneducated
I'm sorry we're not educated about exactly what drug an NFL WR was abusing while he banged hookers. I'll be sure to hit up the library this very afternoon and get smart.

[SkinsFTW]

And he gave his sons advice that he should have gave them in private instead of using their existence to garner sympathy. ****ING ADVICE!!!!


Totally agree.

Michael Irvin is a first rate turd, but he's a good actor and knows how to toot his own horn.

Much more impressive than TO, but still a POS.

[One Shot]

You all think too much about Irvin. You don't even know him. He's jut one out of 6 billion.

[prophet]

You contribute absolutley nothing on this board but a terrible mouth and no knowledge at all.

If you listend to the whole speech then maybe you will see why he got so emotional.

You need to grow and up and contribute something on this board.
:applause:

Maybe it wouldn't it wouldn't be so bad if you could express yourself like you have an ounce of respect for the crap coming out of your mouth...

I can't stand people who can't make a point without droping F-bombs

[boysetsfire]

Honestly who cares? It's over and done with forever.

[skinfan2k]

Who cares about personal problems? Irvin was one of the best WRs in the NFL ever

[gobigred]

It was a great speech. I bleed Burgundy and Gold but you have got to be real when a person can give true reflection on his life. When the thread writer actually has a life, a job that he has gave his life to and given the greatest honor you can recieve in your profession with all of your family there. Maybe, just maybe you can post a thread like this but to be only 22 years old and probably still living with mama and daddy or just moved out on your own you can't say nothing. I am a true redskins fan but even more a fan of football Michael Irvin was not my favorite player when we played aginst him but he has heart and the desire to win that is what we need on our team right now a few Michael Irvin's who will cry when his team is loosing and gets them fired up because he wants to win that is true passion.

[gobigred]

Airing your family problems like that in public is totally self-serving. If you screwed up raising your kids, you need to talk to your kids. Not some TV camera. And Irvin wasn't smoking crack. He was free basing. There is a difference. Crack is for the ghetto.

Crack it not for the ghetto, crack is not is not for anyone, to say something so prejudice make you ignorant to whom is smoking crack, the middle class kids. Crack and free bassing is the same thing the only difference is rich people call it free basing and poor people call it crack the product is the same and that is your lession in what is crack. So quit sounding like a racist or like you are smoking crack yourself.

[Chachie]

give it a rest, jbooma


Irvin is all about irvin, an has always conned people time and time again how "sincere" he is this time....








I thought the speech was touching and I thought Irvin was truly expressing regret for some of his weird ways, but I have to agree with Bubba here. When I saw him stick his face into Thurman Thomas' press conference on the day preceding the ceremony, I wanted Irvin to STFU and let Thomas have his time. He's a loudmouthed attention whore who has no idea when to put a cap on innappropriate interruptions and ego-driven verbal games.

He WILL F up again. As soon as he thinks nobody is watching.

[turbodiesel#44]

Crack it not for the ghetto, crack is not is not for anyone, to say something so prejudice make you ignorant to whom is smoking crack, the middle class kids. Crack and free bassing is the same thing the only difference is rich people call it free basing and poor people call it crack the product is the same and that is your lession in what is crack. So quit sounding like a racist or like you are smoking crack yourself.

I'm amazed and speechless you actually thought I was promoting crack or espousing racism in my thread. Then again, puke fans never were known for their intelligence.

[drone007]

Crack it not for the ghetto, crack is not is not for anyone, to say something so prejudice make you ignorant to whom is smoking crack, the middle class kids. Crack and free bassing is the same thing the only difference is rich people call it free basing and poor people call it crack the product is the same and that is your lession in what is crack. So quit sounding like a racist or like you are smoking crack yourself.


i'm just here to say that the dude never said anything racist. he said it was 'ghetto'. you're the one who made ghetto a racist term by bringing it up.

middle class kids do not smoke crack, by the way. for the most part, the only kids i know are middle class, and when they've gotten high it's been cocaine, not crack.

[DCsportsfan53]

Yeah I didn't realize jbooma was a Cowboys fan. Whatever. And I'm sorry the *'s offended him so much. Oh well.

I stand by what I say. Emmitt seems like a decent guy. Aikman is one of the better announcers today (if not the best.) But Irvin is deplorable and disgusting in every aspect of life. Ugh.

And for anyone to sit there and talk like his speech, tears and emotion all of a sudden make him a good guy is a joke.


Why is Irvin deplorable and disgusting? Because he's brash and likes drugs? Man, there's an awful ****ing lot of deplorable disgusting people in this world in that case, that's for sure. ****, especially since a lot of them probably never quit.

You know, I hate the Cowboys as much as the next Redskin's fan but this whole bull**** of hating their players and judging their players for no ****ing reason I find just absolutely stupid. If Irvin's so bad, what does that make Dexter Manley? Somehow, I'll bet you're not as hard on him.

[Fred Jones]

I commented about Irvin in another thread, but since this topic is still open Fred will offer his opinion.

Irvin put it all on the table in that speech. He put is heart out for all to see.

The question is so what? Did Irvin truely believe what he was saying? Is Irvin a changed man? Irvin, obviously, has done some back things. Drug use at the level he was using is high on my list of bad things. That said, what has he learned? Is Irvin truely reformed? What happens if we see him in the news in a month or a year and he is getting in trouble again? Is Irvin giving back to the community? Is so, what exactly is he donig? You see, in skins land we have Mr. Green. The standard of what a person should be. We also have Mr. Monk, not far behind. I have had the occasion to meet both. Mr. Monk I met in a private setting with just him and one other person. He is truely like they say.

So, what do I take away from the speech? Is Irvin for real or just a pretender? Time will tell. He recently left ESPN not under the best of circumstances. My guess is that Irvin will once again be in the news in a bad way. At that time take a look back at his speech and tell me what you think than.

[DCsportsfan53]

No offense Fred Jones but, who ****ing cares? Is he a retired athlete or is he holding public office in Washington? Let's put it in perspective here. We've got our Monks and Greens......and our Manleys......they've got guys like Staubach and Springs, it's all relative. And lets be honest, it's not like Irvin was out hurting other people or was a violent man. He, like many, many people, liked to get high and it seems he's beaten that. Even if he hasn't, that means he's a horrible person?

The main thing is, we're talking about a football player here. As a football player, they didn't come much better than Irvin. In terms of skill, in terms of heart, desire, he had everything you could want in a football player.

[cakmoney61]

and Chris Collinsworth is his gay lover. **** both of them.

I mean Jesus Christ, they are acting like the speech he gave is up there with "We have nothing to fear but fear itself," or "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country," etc etc etc.

Shut the **** up. All the ****er did was cry about how big a ****ing fiend he was. **** makes me sick.

Not that you or anyone who agrees with you will care, but after reading your post, I am ashamed to be a Redskins fan today. What you and others like you are saying is despicable. What's really sad is I expected to see a thread like this. Some Redskins fans have no class at all. If Irvin had spent his whole career as a Redskin, you and other haters would have said it's one of the greatest speeches you ever heard. :2cents:

[Chachie]

I think the whole point of the HOF is that Michael was a legendary WR. Nobody is perfect but some people reach the top of their profession and should be recognized.

[DCsportsfan53]

I think the whole point of the HOF is that Michael was a legendary WR. Nobody is perfect but some poeple reach the top of their profession and should be recognized.


:applause:


Simple and to the point. This really is all there is to it.

[elkabong82]

That's too funny. I was at work yesterday teasing a co-worker/cowboy fan, by calling Irvin a crybaby during his speech.

Also, he even said Monk deserved to be in by now.

[RedskinDan0557]

Endorsing the classless (Irvin) makes you classless as far as I'm concerned.

If you think Irvin hasn't been trying to improve his image since his last arrest (what 2 years ago) you are kidding yourself.

I just wonder how long it took for him to learn how to cry on demand.

Maybe he just thought about all the coke and ho's he left behind in Dallas and it brought tears to his eyes.

on edit: Just because he states the obvious (Monk deserves HOF) doesnt make him any better. Just more kiss up.

[monkforhall]

Not about making me feel better, its about some of you guys not making yourselves look uneducated

These guys are uneducated about Crack and Coke? Where did you get your education?? I missed that crack class in high school as well. But it seems like he has smoked some crack, when he was caught with a crack pipe. But what do I know, i'm not a crack head or a coke head like your boy. Maybe Monk should have smoked some crack too. I used to think being a good person and an unbelievable football player would have been enough.

[Santana_Fan]

Some Redskins fans have no class at all. If Irvin had spent his whole career as a Redskin, you and other haters would have said it's one of the greatest speeches you ever heard. :2cents:


Exactly

[monkforhall]

Not that you or anyone who agrees with you will care, but after reading your post, I am ashamed to be a Redskins fan today. What you and others like you are saying is despicable. What's really sad is I expected to see a thread like this. Some Redskins fans have no class at all. If Irvin had spent his whole career as a Redskin, you and other haters would have said it's one of the greatest speeches you ever heard. :2cents:

If Irvin spent his whole career in Washington he wouldn't be in the Hall of Fame. Drug addicts are master manipulators. He's the same guy he's always been. I do give him credit on his acting though, nice tears.

[DCsportsfan53]

These guys are uneducated about Crack and Coke? Where did you get your education?? I missed that crack class in high school as well. But it seems like he has smoked some crack, when he was caught with a crack pipe. But what do I know, i'm not a crack head or a coke head like your boy. Maybe Monk should have smoked some crack too. I used to think being a good person and an unbelievable football player would have been enough.



We need to stop qualifying the Monk and Irvin debates with the situation of the other. The fact that Irvin did coke doesn't affect Monk getting into the hall and the fact that Monk's not there doesn't make Irvin undeserving. The fact is, media grudges for lack of accessibility, lack of on field flair and hijinks and never being in the spotlight are what hurt Monk. That's wrong and we all know it, but the voters are little bitches, what can you do accept keep screaming louder about it. However, that doesn't change the fact that Irvin was THE dominant WR of the 90s and his accomplishments on the field definitely earned him a spot in the hall, as did Monks. They are separate people, separate situations and SHOULD be separate conversations. Why is it that we can't admit that Irvin should be there without that being a slight to Monk?

[Walking Deadman]

Oh God. Now here comes Deion with his "expert" opinion. **** him too.


I only read a few posts.....but I had to laugh at this one.
Deion annoys the hell out of me.

and there is no HOF in my opinion until Art Monk (and Green when eligible) is enshirined.

[pjfootballer]

I disagree. I will never applaud him. Today, tomorrow, the day after that, or 20 years from now.

I agree. Aikman I said OK, fair enough. Emmitt I'll watch. Crackhead. I'll never watch it, I won't listen to him nor watch the replay. He has nothing of value to say IMO. I will never recognize him as a HOFer. ***k him and the crack pipe he rode in on.

I have respect for former Dallass players like Emmitt, Troy, Staubach, Dorsett, Drew Pearson etc. Irvin will never get my respect for anything he did on and off the field. It's my personal opinion and I have a right to it.

Congratulations Matthews, Wherli, Thurman and Charlie Sanders. You deserve it. :applause:

[BigMike619]

Endorsing the classless (Irving) makes you classless as far as I'm concerned.

If you think Irving hasn't been trying to improve his image since his last arrest (what 2 years ago) you are kidding yourself.

I just wonder how long it took for him to learn how to cry on demand.

Maybe he just thought about all the coke and ho's he left behind in Dallas and it brought tears to his eyes.

on edit: Just because he states the obvious (Monk deserves HOF) doesnt make him any better. Just more kiss up.

Im sorry, did Irving Fryar get into the HOF?:laugh:

[BigMike619]

I agree. Aikman I said OK, fair enough. Emmitt I'll watch. Crackhead. I'll never watch it, I won't listen to him nor watch the replay. He has nothing of value to say IMO. I will never recognize him as a HOFer. ***k him and the crack pipe he rode in on.

I have respect for former Dallass players like Emmitt, Troy, Staubach, Dorsett, Drew Pearson etc. Irvin will never get my respect for anything he did on and off the field. It's my personal opinion and I have a right to it.

Congratulations Matthews, Wherli, Thurman and Charlie Sanders. You deserve it. :applause:

we agree once again!! well, almost. i am not an emmitt fan. i think he held on in the end just to break walter's record when he didnt deserve it. he had a great line and didnt have to do half the work that payton did.

and i dont think thurman deserved it either. he was a good back, but if theyre trying to prove to me that he is good enough to be in with 0 rings, then Monk should be in with 3 and all of the records he did hold.

but once again, you have a good point and your right to it.

[pjfootballer]

How come Crackhead was the only one allowed in the booth when the other members has to be interviewed on the field. What a joke.

[RedskinDan0557]

Im sorry, did Irving Fryar get into the HOF?:laugh:

Sorry didn't know this was grammar class. Let me go get my crack pipe, wait, Irvin borrowed it.

[monkforhall]

They are separate people, separate situations and SHOULD be separate conversations. Why is it that we can't admit that Irvin should be there without that being a slight to Monk?

I don't know. It feels like a slight. Irvin gets in first. He was the polar opposite of Monk. Monk, quiet, modest, classy and was never a disruption to his team. Monk led by example.

We have Irvin, who is loud, arrogant, a big disruption with all his arrests. Both we're great players on the field, but the guy with the record gets the accolades. Good message for the kids there. Don't be like Art, be like Mike.

[BigMike619]

Sorry didn't know this was grammar class. Let me go get my crack pipe, wait, Irvin borrowed it.

its not a grammar class but you should have the right name if you are going to make jokes. everybody mispells, but you had the wrong name totally.

but no worries, just bustin ya chops!!:cheers:

[BigMike619]

I don't know. It feels like a slight. Irvin gets in first. He was the polar opposite of Monk. Monk, quiet, modest, classy and was never a disruption to his team. Monk led by example.

We have Irvin, who is loud, arrogant, a big disruption with all his arrests. Both we're great players on the field, but the guy with the record gets the accolades. Good message for the kids there. Don't be like Art, be like Mike.

the message i get is that TO will get in before Marvin Harrison just because he kept his name in the media. doesnt matter that it was for good or bad just that it was there and these old timers only remember names and not quality obviously.

[DCsportsfan53]

I don't know. It feels like a slight. Irvin gets in first. He was the polar opposite of Monk. Monk, quiet, modest, classy and was never a disruption to his team. Monk led by example.

We have Irvin, who is loud, arrogant, a big disruption with all his arrests. Both we're great players on the field, but the guy with the record gets the accolades. Good message for the kids there. Don't be like Art, be like Mike.


I agree, no question. However, what I'm trying to point out is, that slight is one that's created by the media, the voters and our cultural preferences. It's obvious that our culture celebrates ostentatiousness and arrogance these days. None of that is Irvin's fault, though. Yes, I'm extremely upset Monk's not in, it's a travesty and mockery of everything the game holds sacred, but that's not Irvin's fault and it doesn't diminsh the fact that his performances on the field easily warranted a bust in the Hall. The problem lies with the voters and with what Americans choose to celebrate in the sports world today. We always ignore the lunch pail guys, the ones who get endorsement deals, air time, interviews, ect, ect are the ones who show up on Sports Center and run their mouths. I hate that. I hate that that gets Irvin in before Monk. But again, that's not Irvin's fault and shouldn't take away from what he did on the field because he was one hell of a player.

Basically, its seems to me that Redskin's fans are misplacing their frustration with the media and our sports culture, both of which have conspired to keep Monk out, and placed it on Irvin mostly because he played the same position as Monk. That's silly to me, though understandable given the emotions involved.

[pjfootballer]

Why is Irvin deplorable and disgusting? Because he's brash and likes drugs? Man, there's an awful ****ing lot of deplorable disgusting people in this world in that case, that's for sure. ****, especially since a lot of them probably never quit.

You know, I hate the Cowboys as much as the next Redskin's fan but this whole bull**** of hating their players and judging their players for no ****ing reason I find just absolutely stupid. If Irvin's so bad, what does that make Dexter Manley? Somehow, I'll bet you're not as hard on him.

Manley was just as bad a screwup as Irvin. But the difference is, one got in the HOF and the other will never sniff (sorry for the reference) the front stairs of the HOF.

[BigMike619]

how do you expect true redskins fans to react when they see a cokehead cowgirl get in before their beloved Monk?? it seems to me like you are so quick to let Irvin be Irvin and not let the skins fans be skins fans and defend their own.

[DCsportsfan53]

how do you expect true redskins fans to react when they see a cokehead cowgirl get in before their beloved Monk?? it seems to me like you are so quick to let Irvin be Irvin and not let the skins fans be skins fans and defend their own.


I just don't see why we have to say Irvin didn't deserve it and find excuses to that end in order to say Monk deserves it. Monk deserves it on his own merit, regardless of anything Irvin did or didn't do.

[pjfootballer]

They are separate people, separate situations and SHOULD be separate conversations. Why is it that we can't admit that Irvin should be there without that being a slight to Monk?

Because Monk retired before him. Because Monk has been waiting for 12 years when druggy gets in on the 2nd shot. Because Monk is equal to or surpasses any of Irvin's stats. And finally, Because when Monk retired, he set receving records. Plain and simple. He owned or tied alot of records when he retired. Funny how he gets no credit for being in a "passing era" of football, yet 12 years after he retired #1 in receptions, he's still #5, in this "passing era" of the NFL.

[BigMike619]

he does? i think you are confusing people saying he doesnt deserve it as much as monk does with he doesnt at all. i could have given a F less if that cokehead got in if it was after Monk. Monk was a stand up guy and had the numbers that warranted a bust. Irvin got in ONLY for his mouth and ego. Plain and simple.

next thing you will say that neon deion deserves to get in before Green.

[pjfootballer]

we agree once again!! well, almost. i am not an emmitt fan. i think he held on in the end just to break walter's record when he didnt deserve it. he had a great line and didnt have to do half the work that payton did.

and i dont think thurman deserved it either. he was a good back, but if theyre trying to prove to me that he is good enough to be in with 0 rings, then Monk should be in with 3 and all of the records he did hold.

but once again, you have a good point and your right to it.

Not an Emmitt fan either, but he did put up some increadible numbers and kept his nose clean. However, Monk gets downgraded for being a compiler, yet Emmitt was technically a compiler. 16 years to pass what Walter did in 15 or Brown did in 9.

Thurman was a great all around back. Buffalo should have beaten the Giants (thanks Scott Norwood) and they has Dallass the 2nd time around. He compares to Marcus Allen, and Allen got in, so I think Thurman deserves it.

[DCsportsfan53]

I understand what you guys are saying and completely agree that Monk should've been in first and been in over a decade ago, however, all I'm saying is, that's not Irvin's fault is it?

[BigMike619]

i believe that he shouldnt be in. they held him out the one year to "make a point". what point was that? he got busted with a crack pipe in his car that year. and i dont want to hear that it was his cousin's.

you know who doesnt get busted with crack pipes in their car?

me!!

but i do see your point.

[monkforhall]

.

Good points D.C. Your right of course

The HOF is becoming a farce. People like Peter King have ruined a great thing.

[monkforhall]

Not an Emmitt fan either, but he did put up some increadible numbers and kept his nose clean. However, Monk gets downgraded for being a compiler, yet Emmitt was technically a compiler. 16 years to pass what Walter did in 15 or Brown did in 9.



The only thing Monk compiled were first downs, and superbowl rings. But he didn't give the media and good "stories" to write about.

[pjfootballer]

The only thing Monk compiled were first downs, and superbowl rings. But he didn't give the media and good "stories" to write about.

For a guy who's user name is Monkforhall, you should know he was more than 1st downs and SB rings.

[BigMike619]

The only thing Monk compiled were first downs, and superbowl rings. But he didn't give the media and good "stories" to write about.

and receptions.

[BigMike619]

here monkforhall. read this and then tell me he was ONLY good for that.

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=248

[monkforhall]

For a guy who's user name is Monkforhall, you should know he was more than 1st downs and SB rings.


I was just saying that he wasn't a compiler, like the writers say. I know he was good for lots of things, I'm not going to sit here and list them all. I remember Monk and the good old days very clearly. My point didn't come across.

[monkforhall]

here monkforhall. read this and then tell me he was ONLY good for that.

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=248


He wasn't a "stat compiler" was all that i meant.

[BigMike619]

wouldnt hurt to read it anyways. i forgot all of the things he did. like the 200 yard game he had against the forty whiners..

[monkforhall]

wouldnt hurt to read it anyways. i forgot all of the things he did. like the 200 yard game he had against the forty whiners..

Monk always got the first down. Critical 3rd downs he was always the go to guy. Defenses knew it, but he would still get open, and he didn't have blazing speed. It was great having a real clutch, money player like that.

[bobbie brewskie]

longevity should be acknowledged if you ask me - it takes a lot to be able to play for a long time. Jerry Rice doesnt get knocked for his 20+ year career. Emmitt had a long, and really good career. the guy beat Paytons record before 15 seasons, because he only played for 15. so in 13 he did what Payton did in 15 seasons.

and Irvins speech was amazing. much more than just apologizing for doing drugs. you have to be a complete hater to knock a speech that good.

[BigMike619]

longevity should be acknowledged if you ask me - it takes a lot to be able to play for a long time. Jerry Rice doesnt get knocked for his 20+ year career. Emmitt had a long, and really good career. the guy beat Paytons record before 15 seasons, because he only played for 15. so in 13 he did what Payton did in 15 seasons.

and Irvins speech was amazing. much more than just apologizing for doing drugs. you have to be a complete hater to knock a speech that good.

i cant lie man, when i saw him crying i kept thinking that he was reverting back to being a little kid all snot nosed and just looking a mess. i hope he has found sobriety, seriously i do, but how many times now has he been busted? i mean even the true burgundy and gold fans had to let go of defending dexter.

[monkforhall]

longevity should be acknowledged if you ask me - it takes a lot to be able to play for a long time. Jerry Rice doesnt get knocked for his 20+ year career. Emmitt had a long, and really good career. the guy beat Paytons record before 15 seasons, because he only played for 15. so in 13 he did what Payton did in 15 seasons.

and Irvins speech was amazing. much more than just apologizing for doing drugs. you have to be a complete hater to knock a speech that good.

It was definitely amazing, I think he deserves and Emmy award for that performance.

[BigMike619]

he should be on the young and the crackheads..

[turbodiesel#44]

Why is it these weak minded people who submit to addictions and criminal behavior, then "rehab", are so much more of an inspiration to some of you than the strong moral character types who never let temtation lead them down the wrong road in the first place? Look at Monk and Green, and tell me what Irvin ever did on or off the field that should put him in the HOF before them.

Irvin was an addict, a whore monger, a bad father, crappy role model, and a puke. And as an announcer he sucked. What has he done for his community? Eff him and his crying act. And eff the HOF if Monk and Green don't make it this year.

[BigMike619]

Why is it these weak minded people who submit to addictions and criminal behavior, then "rehab", are so much more of an inspiration to some of you than the strong moral character types who never let temtation lead them down the wrong road in the first place? Look at Monk and Green, and tell me what Irvin ever did on or off the field that should put him in the HOF before them.

Irvin was an addict, a whore monger, a bad father, crappy role model, and a puke. And as an announcer he sucked. What has he done for his community? Eff him and his crying act. And eff the HOF if Monk and Green don't make it this year.

you
complete
me
:cheers:

[OVCChairman]

Why is it these weak minded people who submit to addictions and criminal behavior, then "rehab", are so much more of an inspiration to some of you than the strong moral character types who never let temtation lead them down the wrong road in the first place? Look at Monk and Green, and tell me what Irvin ever did on or off the field that should put him in the HOF before them.

Irvin was an addict, a whore monger, a bad father, crappy role model, and a puke. And as an announcer he sucked. What has he done for his community? Eff him and his crying act. And eff the HOF if Monk and Green don't make it this year.


blame the media.


They take that and turn it into an "i conquered a mountain" story. Truth is it only means they hit rock bottom. They had something great and took it for granted.

Unfortunately the line "you can lead a horse to water, but can't make him drink" is bass-akwards on this one because in this case, the media can take the public and make them gulp it down. TRUE football fans, and i mean TRUE football fans respect a player that deserves respect. Cowboy fans (I know a couple who appreciate Irvin for the on the field stuff but dislike for the off) are very biassed towards him. Same thing with Skins fans and Dexter Manley. If he had been on a different team, people on this team would be calling for his head as well.

[BigMike619]

blame the media.


They take that and turn it into an "i conquered a mountain" story. Truth is it only means they hit rock bottom. They had something great and took it for granted.

Unfortunately the line "you can lead a horse to water, but can't make him drink" is bass-akwards on this one because in this case, the media can take the public and make them gulp it down. TRUE football fans, and i mean TRUE football fans respect a player that deserves respect. Cowboy fans (I know a couple who appreciate Irvin for the on the field stuff but dislike for the off) are very biassed towards him. Same thing with Skins fans and Dexter Manley. If he had been on a different team, people on this team would be calling for his head as well.

i honestly dont know of any manley fans left out there. and those who support him (whoever they are) sure dont think he is HOF material. he dug his own grave like irvin did, but somehow getting busted with coke and whores doesnt count if you were a cowgirl. Irvin is lucky that Goodell wasnt the commish because he would be sitting next to pacman crying about why he doesnt get to play the NFL reindeer games.

[pjfootballer]

I was just saying that he wasn't a compiler, like the writers say. I know he was good for lots of things, I'm not going to sit here and list them all. I remember Monk and the good old days very clearly. My point didn't come across.

Sorry, I misread your post. My mistake.

[DCsportsfan53]

Oh lord, here we go with moral judgment again. Is anything not about morals in this country? It gets so old. He was a damn ****ing good football player, one of the best, and that's the criteria for the hall. Of course Monk deserved to be in first, but that's the media and our sport's cultures fault, not Irvins.

[monkforhall]

i honestly dont know of any manley fans left out there. and those who support him (whoever they are) sure dont think he is HOF material. he dug his own grave like irvin did, but somehow getting busted with coke and whores doesnt count if you were a cowgirl. Irvin is lucky that Goodell wasnt the commish because he would be sitting next to pacman crying about why he doesnt get to play the NFL reindeer games.

I'm a Manley fan, that guy couldn't read. I mean he was really close to being retarded, if he isn't clinically retarded. He's just a sad case. Irvin is a snake.

[BigMike619]

what judgement?

data: he used crack. data: he got busted with coke. data: his stats were no more impressive then monk's. data: he has held NO records.

what else do you need? for someone who is a fan you sure are defensive of ol cokey

[BigMike619]

I'm a Manley fan, that guy couldn't read. I mean he was really close to being retarded, if he isn't clinically retarded. He's just a sad case. Irvin is a snake.

read what? my reply wasnt to you, so if you said you were a manley fan you must have snuck that one past me.

[OVCChairman]

Oh lord, here we go with moral judgment again. Is anything not about morals in this country? It gets so old. He was a damn ****ing good football player, one of the best, and that's the criteria for the hall. Of course Monk deserved to be in first, but that's the media and our sport's cultures fault, not Irvins.


I agree, the guy was a playmaker. He was 1 of the best recievers of his time.

i'm not disagreeing, i was just posting that the media has put a sob story on these guys that do drugs and fall victim to the professional atmosphere, saying things like "look how far he's come" or "he overcam a lot."

I say we honor the guys who never had to come that far because they were on point from the start.

[pjfootballer]

As someone who loved Manley's play on the field, his act got old off it. He only has 97 sacks, which falls well short of alot of HOFers, like Reggie White, Bruce Smith, LAwrence Taylor and such. Kevin Greene had alot of sacks, but he was a piss poor LB. The only other DE in the HOF during Manley's era is Howie Long. Long was a more complete player than Dexter was and Long never got in trouble like Manley did. I don't think Dexter is a HOFer. Redskins Ring of Fame? Sure.

[monkforhall]

Oh lord, here we go with moral judgment again. Is anything not about morals in this country? It gets so old. He was a damn ****ing good football player, one of the best, and that's the criteria for the hall. Of course Monk deserved to be in first, but that's the media and our sport's cultures fault, not Irvins.

If it was about being a good football player, and one of the best, Monk would be in. But it's not about that. Plus all Cowboys are fair game to getting slandered.

[OVCChairman]

I'm a Manley fan, that guy couldn't read. I mean he was really close to being retarded, if he isn't clinically retarded. He's just a sad case. Irvin is a snake.


are you saying i'm retarted? Why? I'm just sayin that the media is the reason why these guys get this "respect" that they dont deserve. Manley might not be the best example because he didnt amass the accomplishments that Micheal Irvin did

[BigMike619]

are you saying i'm retarted? Why? I'm just sayin that the media is the reason why these guys get this "respect" that they dont deserve. Manley might not be the best example because he didnt amass the accomplishments that Micheal Irvin did

hahahahaha...he meant dexter i am pretty sure. thats funny though.:laugh:

[monkforhall]

read what? my reply wasnt to you, so if you said you were a manley fan you must have snuck that one past me.

I'm confused. Just saying there are some Manley fans left. And I feel sorry for Manley, cause Manley could not read anything.

[DCsportsfan53]

what judgement?

data: he used crack. data: he got busted with coke. data: his stats were no more impressive then monk's. data: he has held NO records.

what else do you need? for someone who is a fan you sure are defensive of ol cokey


:doh:

You're proving exactly what I said earlier. Why can't I say Monk deserved to be in a decade ago and that it's a farce and mockery of the Hall of Fame that he's not there and still believe Irvin deserves to be there? Why is that such a ridiculous position around here?

[monkforhall]

are you saying i'm retarted? Why? I'm just sayin that the media is the reason why these guys get this "respect" that they dont deserve. Manley might not be the best example because he didnt amass the accomplishments that Micheal Irvin did


Haaa. No man. Good lord i'm having trouble today. LOL

manley was unable to read, and I think he was retarded. Like myself.

[OVCChairman]

hahahahaha...he meant dexter i am pretty sure. thats funny though.:laugh:


hahaha i gotcha, now that i read it a 4th time i got it. I was quoted in the post so when he said "that guy" instead of "he (referring to manley)" it threw me off....question retracted

[BigMike619]

I'm confused. Just saying there are some Manley fans left. And I feel sorry for Manley, cause Manley could not read anything.

gotcha. no worries though. i was confused too.

[DCsportsfan53]

If it was about being a good football player, and one of the best, Monk would be in. But it's not about that. Plus all Cowboys are fair game to getting slandered.


I know, but that's what it should be about. If it was just about football, like they SAY it is, like the guidlines say it's supposed to be, Monk AND Irvin would've both been first ballot guys. That's all I'm saying. Apparently though, being objective enough to admit Irvin's very much deserving of the Hall of Fame means I'm a cowboy's fan in disguise.

[BigMike619]

hahaha i gotcha, now that i read it a 4th time i got it. I was quoted in the post so when he said "that guy" instead of "he (referring to manley)" it threw me off....question retracted

that is comedy. my boss looked over at me because i laughed at loud at it.

[OVCChairman]

Haaa. No man. Good lord i'm having trouble today. LOL

manley was unable to read, and I think he was retarded. Like myself.


hey, i'm not exactly 2 steps ahead of the crowd myself. It's been a long offseason, why cant we just have some LIVE REDSKINS FOOTBALL?

[OVCChairman]

I know, but that's what it should be about. If it was just about football, like they SAY it is, like the guidlines say it's supposed to be, Monk AND Irvin would've both been first ballot guys. That's all I'm saying. Apparently though, being objective enough to admit Irvin's very much deserving of the Hall of Fame means I'm a cowboy's fan in disguise.


Just like this whole "whos now" mess on ESPN. HOF is about off the field accomplishments as well as on. Monk wasnt in headlines, he wasnt on tv shows, he played football, plain and simple. Micheal Irvin's name came to mind for these guys because they heard it more.

[monkforhall]

hey, i'm not exactly 2 steps ahead of the crowd myself. It's been a long offseason, why cant we just have some LIVE REDSKINS FOOTBALL?

Yeah, seriously. I'm stumbling all over myself here. :)

D.C.
I'm not saying your a Cowboys fan, I also didn't say that Irvin didn't belong in the HOF. What he doesn't deserve is to get in there before Monk. But your right, it's not Irvins fault.

[Dictator]

I think it's funny that the thread starter who hates Irvin so much for using drugs, advocates and talks about using drugs himself in the Tailgate.

[RedskinDan0557]

its not a grammar class but you should have the right name if you are going to make jokes. everybody mispells, but you had the wrong name totally.

but no worries, just bustin ya chops!!:cheers:

Irvin.......Irving how is that the wrong name totally?

[DCsportsfan53]

D.C.
I'm not saying your a Cowboys fan, I also didn't say that Irvin didn't belong in the HOF. What he doesn't deserve is to get in there before Monk. But your right, it's not Irvins fault.


:cheers:

In that case, we're in agreement. It's really stupid that the HOF technically doesn't count off field or character factors into the equation but it's obvious the voters do in some cases. Obviously, they didn't take them into account for Irvin but did, in the way of percieved slights to the media, for Monk. This whole thing just reeks of petty vendettas by the voters which is what makes it so much more frustrating. Believe me, when I first heard they left Monk off again and put Irvin in I nearly crashed my car in a fit of rage. Some months later, I can accept Irvin going in because it wouldn't be fair to hold him out just because they held Monk out. I don't want to see them being unfair to MORE players to make up for what they've done, I just want to see Monk in already, dammit.

I will say one thing, I will seriously flip my **** if Monk and Green don't go in together next year. That would make up for a lot, to see them honored together like that.

[DCsportsfan53]

I think it's funny that the thread starter who hates Irvin so much for using drugs, advocates and talks about using drugs himself in the Tailgate.


Like I said before, this has MUCH more to do with misplaced emotions an anger than the actual merits or lack of on the part of Irvin.

[KevinthePRF]

i honestly dont know of any manley fans left out there. and those who support him (whoever they are) sure dont think he is HOF material. he dug his own grave like irvin did, but somehow getting busted with coke and whores doesnt count if you were a cowgirl. Irvin is lucky that Goodell wasnt the commish because he would be sitting next to pacman crying about why he doesnt get to play the NFL reindeer games.

I'd be suprised if there are any Manley fans left. But not just for his character. His on the field play really didn't amount to much past being a good pass rusher. And even then he only put together only 4 really good seasons, and one Pro Bowl season. Though his sack total was significantly less, Charles Mann was a much more dominating DE overall. But even his career is borderline hall of fame material.

Who I'm shocked is not mentioned a bit more way more than any Redskin is Charles Haley. He'd be a first ballot HOFer if injuries hadn't shortened his career.

[BigMike619]

Irvin.......Irving how is that the wrong name totally?

because nobody has ever heard of michael irving. michael irving wasnt put into the hall of fame.

that is like me saying that cal ripken played in 26320 games. i am just off by one 0.

[monkforhall]

that is comedy. my boss looked over at me because i laughed at loud at it.

So did I. That was hilarious.

[PCRoughrider]

Who wants to bet he didn't hit the pipe before the speech?

...and maybe afterwards too.

[desioreo87]

There is a problem here when people cannot appreciate this speech. I don't like Irvin, never have never will, hes a terrible broadcaster and a me-first person but this speech was about him coming to grips with what he has done in his life and how disgraceful he has been to the game and his family.

If you can't even at least respect Irvin for going up there in front of millions of people and apologizing then you are ridiculous.

These are times when people like Bubba get on my nerves. People who think that just cause he wore a star on his helmet hes not just another person who has ****ed in their life. If he played for us the tone would be the exact ****ing opposite and Bubba knows that.

You guys are ridiculous.

[BigDFan5]

These guys are uneducated about Crack and Coke? Where did you get your education?? I missed that crack class in high school as well. But it seems like he has smoked some crack, when he was caught with a crack pipe. But what do I know, i'm not a crack head or a coke head like your boy. Maybe Monk should have smoked some crack too. I used to think being a good person and an unbelievable football player would have been enough.



I didnt want to say stupid.

But education does not only come in the classroom. People can get educated about football does that mean they learned it in the classroom, or the field? Can someone who never played be educated on football? My point was if you are going to discuss his past arrests educate yourself on what he was actually arrested for


And the pipe from a couple years back was a marijuana pipe

[MLSKINS]

**** Irvin and the whole Hall Of Fame committee. This bamma was crying his ass of Saturday. He might was high during the speech. But I agree with Skip Bayless( Thought I will never say that) I think it was fake. He was talking about how one year Irvin was talking about something that had to do with crack and how he was crying. And how after he was aying that was his best performance ever.

[BigDFan5]

yet Emmitt was technically a compiler. 16 years to pass what Walter did in 15

Walter played 190 games, Emmitt Passed Walter in his 193rd game




or Brown did in 9.

It did take emmitt 16 extra games to pass Browns totals

[BigDFan5]

he got busted with a crack pipe in his car that year.


no he didnt :doh:

[blitzpackage]

His acceptance speech was nothing more than a false vindication of his reputation in his own mind. Think of it as a nationally televised job interview.

This is the same guy who wore a full-length mink coat to the trial/media circus in which he pled no contest to cocaine possession. He is also the one that was a self-professed born again Christian and then busted with his wife for drug paraphernalia just before being shown the door by ESPN. Oh, and he lied and made up an elaborate story about how he took it from his friend. The same friend who never came to his defense to help Irvin save face and protect his "high character".:rolleyes: And this isn't even the extent of his transgressions and the allegations brought against him. Do some research, it makes for a good read. Start with his wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Irvin). If you scoff at wiki, delve a little deeper and you'll find the same stories elsewhere.

When reached for comment following that last excursion with the law, Michael Irvin had this to say:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/6d/Irvinmug.jpg/300px-Irvinmug.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Irvinmug.jpg)

Once a self-serving, smug bastard, always one in my book. Welcome to the National Football League Hall of Fame Adam "Pacman" Jones Sr.:2cents:

[mboyd784]

Handle your business with your sons in private.

The man is one of the all-time master douchebags.

The Hall is diminished.

[isle-hawg]

I think a more descriptive thread title is: Michael Irvin is a Crackbaby...

[maxiumone]

Blah Blah Blah I have read through 80 freakin posts and cant stand it anymore. Irvin has been given more god damn chances then most people would get. He has said he was sorry and a changed man over and over.

I don't care what he thinks or how sorry he is.

And those that said he deserves to be in the hall that is debatable and for another thread

[maxiumone]

And the pipe from a couple years back was a marijuana pipe


That makes it better :rolleyes:

[pjfootballer]

Walter played 190 games, Emmitt Passed Walter in his 193rd game





It did take emmitt 16 extra games to pass Browns totals

I think the point was that it took Emmitt 16 seasons to amass 18K yards. He could be looked at as a compiler too. Include Rice in that also with 20 seasons under his belt.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I think it's funny that the thread starter who hates Irvin so much for using drugs, advocates and talks about using drugs himself in the Tailgate.
I don't recall advocating drug use but I might have. Can you show that to me?

It's not about drug use anyway. It is about Irvin giving a bull**** speech where he put the spotlight on his young, little sons, cried some fake-me-out tears, and Collinsworth acted like it was the greatest thing ever; like it canceled out all of Irvin's transgressions and made him a great human being. In my opinion, his stock droped (if that's possible) by using his sons. Collinsworth is a tool so I'm not surprised that he got suckered. I'm disappointed in a lot of you though.

BTW, who gives a ****?

[InsaneBoost]

Well, I don't know, I hate Dallas, and I sure don't like him, but if I was inducted, into the Hall of Fame, as one of the BEST players to play the game, I think I would cry too. Your name will always be there, on top of everyone.

[wpenn1]

Some of you same clowns would have talked **** if he didnt acknowledge his shortcomings but when he does you still criticize get a ****ing life.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Some of you same clowns would have talked **** if he didnt acknowledge his shortcomings but when he does you still criticize get a ****ing life.
I wouldn't have said anything if there hadn't been all that bull****, fake-ass crying and Collinsworth falling head over heels for him.

[BigDFan5]

That makes it better :rolleyes:


actually it does in many many peoples opinions

[BigDFan5]

I think the point was that it took Emmitt 16 seasons to amass 18K yards. He could be looked at as a compiler too. Include Rice in that also with 20 seasons under his belt.


Do you think Walter P was a compiler? because as I stated Emmitt broke his record in just a few games more. He didnt add a whole bunch after that

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

And honestly, I don't really care about this. I thought it would be a good thread. I do think the whole crying bit was staged, I do think the whole thing with his sons is in poor taste, and Collinsworth was planted firmly on his sack which was annoying, but as far as importance in my life goes, this is about at the bottom. Behind when my next **** is and what cereal I'm goiing to eat for breakfast tomorrow.

I'm surprised at the level of discssion in this thread and how heated it got. I'm not sure when Irvin became such a divisive figure for Skins fans. Weird how things turn out sometimes.

As far as all of you bitching about my language, that I lost points for this, and saying that I make you ashamed to be a Skins fan. Blah blah blah blah blah. Whatever. It's not that serious.

[Santana_Fan]

I wouldn't have said anything if there hadn't been all that bull****, fake-ass crying and Collinsworth falling head over heels for him.


And how exactly could you tell it was fake?

[DCsportsfan53]

That makes it better :rolleyes:

actually it does in many many peoples opinions


No maxiumone, you're completely right. In fact, marijuana is worse and even more destructive than crack. All you pot heads out there take notice, turn in the bong, pick up the crack pipe. It's better for you.

[monkforhall]

I'd like to change my screen name to ****thehall.

[BigRay]

I can't stand him but I thought his speech was very good. Very heartfelt he put everything out there on the table he apologize for all his screws up and the part of the speech that really hit me was when he told his sons to be a better role model than he is that says a lot.

[pjfootballer]

Do you think Walter P was a compiler? because as I stated Emmitt broke his record in just a few games more. He didnt add a whole bunch after that

I don't think anyone should be labeled a compiler. It is what it is. It shouldn't matter how many seasons anyone plays. That is my point. Monk is vilified by the media for being a "compiler", yet the same could be said about alot of players. I was using Emmitt and Rice as examples. I think Emmitt legitimately holds the rushing record. Alot of media complains that Jim Brown is the best even though he played only 9 seasons. Well, that's his problem. He's been passed on the chart. Same with Monk. Funny that 12 seasons after he retired as the #1 pass catcher of all time, he's only dropped to 6th overall. It's not as easy to catch all those passes as the media thinks.

[Rocky21]

Michael Irvin is a disgusting human being. I have no respect for him whatsoever. Anybody that wants to hear his induction speech and be fooled by it...err, I mean moved by it, have at it. I, for one, want no part of it.

1996: charged with misdemeanor possession of over an ounce of marijuana and felony possession of 10+ grams of cocaine

1997: accused by a 23-year-old Dallas woman of holding a gun to her head while teammate Erik Williams and a third unidentified man raped her

1998: sliced teammate Everett McIver's neck in a fight during training camp; McIver was said to have been paid off by Jerry Jones to not bring charges against Irvin

2000: charged with misdemeanor possession of marijuana

2001: charged with felony possession of cocaine

2005: arrested on an outstanding warrant for speeding in Irving, TX after being pulled over for speeding in Plano, TX. Also charged with drug paraphernalia possession after police searched his car and found a drug pipe and plastic baggies with marijuana residue.

[TonyRomoProBowl]

Michael Irvin is a disgusting human being. I have no respect for him whatsoever. Anybody that wants to hear his induction speech and be fooled by it...err, I mean moved by it, have at it. I, for one, want no part of it.

1996: charged with misdemeanor possession of over an ounce of marijuana and felony possession of 10+ grams of cocaine

1997: accused by a 23-year-old Dallas woman of holding a gun to her head while teammate Erik Williams and a third unidentified man raped her

1998: sliced teammate Everett McIver's neck in a fight during training camp; McIver was said to have been paid off by Jerry Jones to not bring charges against Irvin

2000: charged with misdemeanor possession of marijuana

2001: charged with felony possession of cocaine

2005: arrested on an outstanding warrant for speeding in Irving, TX after being pulled over for speeding in Plano, TX. Also charged with drug paraphernalia possession after police searched his car and found a drug pipe and plastic baggies with marijuana residue.

the most alarming of the cases, the sexual assualt, was found to be 100% fabricated. the woman pleadd quilty to purjuery and spent time in jail. the assualt on teammate McIver was BS too. That never happened, the way you would like to belive that it had.....

the cocaine possesion was from a hotel party and he went down for it, and dont forget that he never tested positive for having the drug in his system. Michael Irvin is far from a role model and is not my favorite example of how to act as a player in the NFL. I would never allow my son to ewear a Irvin throwback, nor did i take him to the HOF ceromony...I am a huge Dallas fan, but i am not the biggest Irvin fan for what he has done (all brought on by himself).....

[jnhay]

Irvins as fake as a 3 dollar bill. If you bought that BS, I got some ocean front property for ya in arizona.
How much?


1997: accused by a 23-year-old Dallas woman of holding a gun to her head while teammate Erik Williams and a third unidentified man raped her



Wasn't that proven to be totally made up? BTW, you all are too interested in Michael Irvin's personal life. His speech was pretty good, but you disregard it because somehow you think you know him. I hope some of you aren't also talking about Dexter Manley in the HOF.

[tenntitan81]

I heard people saying he was forgiven and all, but he just got suspended 2 years ago by ESPN for a marijuana arrest, and he was fired last year for demanding too much money (egotistical). I think he just got emotional at the HOF inductions. He hasn't really changed.

[Rocky21]

Numerous reports have Michael Irvin involved with
McIver in a scuffle that started over a haircut. McIver
missed 11 days of work, including two exhibitions, and
returned to practice only Monday.

Both he and Irvin have refused to discuss the incident.
Irvin and Cowboys owner Jerry Jones have denied Sunday's
report in The Dallas Morning News that Jones brokered a deal
in which Irvin paid McIver ``in the high six figures'' to
keep McIver from pursuing criminal charges or publicly
discussing details. Such public disclosure could be bad news
for Irvin, who faces 20 years in prison if he violates the
terms of his probation on drug charges.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Numerous reports have Michael Irvin involved with
McIver in a scuffle that started over a haircut. McIver
missed 11 days of work, including two exhibitions, and
returned to practice only Monday.

Both he and Irvin have refused to discuss the incident.
Irvin and Cowboys owner Jerry Jones have denied Sunday's
report in The Dallas Morning News that Jones brokered a deal
in which Irvin paid McIver ``in the high six figures'' to
keep McIver from pursuing criminal charges or publicly
discussing details. Such public disclosure could be bad news
for Irvin, who faces 20 years in prison if he violates the
terms of his probation on drug charges.

Link please.

[Rocky21]

Link please.You don't believe that Michael Irvin intentionally cut his teammates' neck with a pair of scissors?

[Chachie]

Some of you same clowns would have talked **** if he didnt acknowledge his shortcomings but when he does you still criticize get a ****ing life.


Somebody needs a nap. :)

[ABQCOWBOY]

You don't believe that Michael Irvin intentionally cut his teammates' neck with a pair of scissors?


I know the whole story of Irvin and the Scissors. I'm saying what you just posted had no link or timeline. You posted it as if it could have been yesterday.

Link please.

[Chachie]

I have no issue with irvin being inducted or with him trying to garner sympathy during his speech, which he definitely did but whatever.

I do take issue with people coming in here trying to act like he's a changed man. He's not. He'll always want more superstar treatment without acting like a superstar should. Stay tuned for his next arrest, infidelity, or innappropriate public remark.

[Rocky21]

I know the whole story of Irvin and the Scissors. I'm saying what you just posted had no link or timeline. You posted it as if it could have been yesterday.

Link please.
I found the story on the internet but didn't copy down the link. If you know the whole story of Irvin and the Scissors than you know he attacked a teammate with a pair of scissors.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I found the story on the internet but didn't copy down the link. If you know the whole story of Irvin and the Scissors than you know he attacked a teammate with a pair of scissors.


So no link then huh?

[Rocky21]

So no link then huh? :laugh: Dude, do you have a reading comprehension problem?

And are you familiar with the term Strawman argument?

[ABQCOWBOY]

:laugh: Dude, do you have a reading comprehension problem?

And are you familiar with the term Strawman argument?

Of course I am. I'm reading it in your previous post. Lets face it, your claiming that the team did this and that to cover up Irvin when in fact, you have zero proof of this. I'm a stand up guy. I'll say it's true if it's true but what you just posted is straight BS. You know it and that's why I asked you to post a link.

Post the link proving what you claim is true or abandon your claim.

[Rocky21]

Of course I am. I'm reading it in your previous post. Lets face it, your claiming that the team did this and that to cover up Irvin when in fact, you have zero proof of this. I'm a stand up guy. I'll say it's true if it's true but what you just posted is straight BS. You know it and that's why I asked you to post a link.

Post the link proving what you claim is true or abandon your claim.
Would you consider Irvin admitting that he did it proof?

http://www.dallasobserver.com/2002-09-05/news/think-mink/

What really happened in the scissors incident?
One of the guys came in and gave us haircuts, and Everett McIver, he's a young guy. Really, he just wanted to fit in. An ego thing, I guess. He and I both. And we have an order--the veterans go first. [Irvin goes on to explain that McIver was set to get his hair cut next. Then Irvin showed up and demanded his veteran's right to go before him. McIver, egged on by another player, Erik Williams, got upset.] And I said, tell you what, if we're not going to do it like we usually do it, then nobody gets their hair cut. The barber shop dude, he can get out of the building. And, of course, he [McIver] didn't like that.

Then we started fighting. I grabbed the clippers to cut him off, and he tried to grab the clippers out of my hand. He pushed me, and I pushed him back, and he punched me, and that's how it started. He hit me in the mouth, and I just lost it. I mean, my head. I lost it. I saw the scissors, grabbed the scissors and cut him. They tried to put a spin on it for me, but I cut him.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Would you consider Irvin admitting that he did it proof?

http://www.dallasobserver.com/2002-09-05/news/think-mink/

What really happened in the scissors incident?
One of the guys came in and gave us haircuts, and Everett McIver, he's a young guy. Really, he just wanted to fit in. An ego thing, I guess. He and I both. And we have an order--the veterans go first. [Irvin goes on to explain that McIver was set to get his hair cut next. Then Irvin showed up and demanded his veteran's right to go before him. McIver, egged on by another player, Erik Williams, got upset.] And I said, tell you what, if we're not going to do it like we usually do it, then nobody gets their hair cut. The barber shop dude, he can get out of the building. And, of course, he [McIver] didn't like that.

Then we started fighting. I grabbed the clippers to cut him off, and he tried to grab the clippers out of my hand. He pushed me, and I pushed him back, and he punched me, and that's how it started. He hit me in the mouth, and I just lost it. I mean, my head. I lost it. I saw the scissors, grabbed the scissors and cut him. They tried to put a spin on it for me, but I cut him.

Would you admit that you tried to link the team and Jerry Jones to this deal insinuating that they had a role in some sort of cover up and subsiquent pay off? All that was fabricated and you have shown no proof to support it. I do not deny that Irvin and McIver had a fight involving scissors but the rest of that was BS and you know it.

[Rocky21]

Would you admit that you tried to link the team and Jerry Jones to this deal insinuating that they had a role in some sort of cover up and subsiquent pay off? All that was fabricated and you have shown no proof to support it. I do not deny that Irvin and McIver had a fight involving scissors but the rest of that was BS and you know it. I claimed Irvin sliced teammate Everett McIver's neck in a fight during training camp. I provided a link from the Dallas Observer quoting Irvin as saying he did it.

Irvin said, "They tried to put a spin on it for me, but I cut him." I would assume Irvin is referring to the Cowboys organization. Wouldn't you?

[ABQCOWBOY]

I claimed Irvin sliced teammate Everett McIver's neck in a fight during training camp. I provided a link from the Dallas Observer quoting Irvin as saying he did it.

Irvin said, "They tried to put a spin on it for me, but I cut him." I would assume Irvin is referring to the Cowboys organization. Wouldn't you?


No, I would not.

Here is what you posted:

Both he and Irvin have refused to discuss the incident.
Irvin and Cowboys owner Jerry Jones have denied Sunday's
report in The Dallas Morning News that Jones brokered a deal
in which Irvin paid McIver ``in the high six figures'' to
keep McIver from pursuing criminal charges or publicly
discussing details. Such public disclosure could be bad news
for Irvin, who faces 20 years in prison if he violates the
terms of his probation on drug charges.

There is nothing in what you've posted as substantiating proof to confirm this, at all.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I would not deny that Irvin has been far from a model citizen during his career. Having said that, I don't think it's right to say that the team and or Jerry has actively played a role in this thing. No more, in fact, then one could say that the Redskinz or Snyder played a role in Taylors run ins with the law over guns etc.

[Rocky21]

No, I would not.

Here is what you posted:

Both he and Irvin have refused to discuss the incident.
Irvin and Cowboys owner Jerry Jones have denied Sunday's
report in The Dallas Morning News that Jones brokered a deal
in which Irvin paid McIver ``in the high six figures'' to
keep McIver from pursuing criminal charges or publicly
discussing details. Such public disclosure could be bad news
for Irvin, who faces 20 years in prison if he violates the
terms of his probation on drug charges.

There is nothing in what you've posted as substantiating proof to confirm this, at all.You seem hung up on me saying that the Cowboys and Jerry Jones covered something up. I never stated that this was the case. Please re-read my posts.

I claimed Irvin sliced teammate Everett McIver's neck in a fight during training camp – which he admitted he did.

Now Michael Irvin said, "They tried to put a spin on it for me." I’ll leave that for you to interpret any way you like.

[turbodiesel#44]

Kapow. Round goes to Rocky.

[ABQCOWBOY]

You seem hung up on me saying that the Cowboys and Jerry Jones covered something up. I never stated that this was the case. Please re-read my posts.

I claimed Irvin sliced teammate Everett McIver's neck in a fight during training camp – which he admitted he did.

Now Michael Irvin said, "They tried to put a spin on it for me." I’ll leave that for you to interpret any way you like.


Absolutly I am. It was not accidental on your part to include that suggestive verbage. If I suggested that Danny and the Skins had tried to do the same for Manley or Taylor or whomever, you would do the same. Players are players but the organization is what you follow in this day and age. You were wrong to suggest that. Irvin could be talking about anybody in that phrase. He could be talking about players who were there or whatever. Jerry may be a lot of things but he has been good for the game. Not right to suggest that he would take part in a criminal activity as you've just done.

[turbodiesel#44]

I don't recall a Redskin having the threat of breaking probation and spending a couple of decades in prison hanging over his head. And I don't recall a Redskin ever slitting the throat of a team mate either. We did have a guy throw a pie in anothers face though. I guess that's about the same.

[pjfootballer]

Westbrook did kick the s*** out of Stephen Davis!!!

[turbodiesel#44]

Westbrook did kick the s*** out of Stephen Davis!!!

I remembered that. Who's side are you on anyway? lol. He didn't use any lethal weapons or sharp objects. Westbrooks hands, if anything, were baby soft.

We also duct taped rookies to goalposts. That adhesive can cause a serious rash.

[DCsportsfan53]

Westbrook did kick the s*** out of Stephen Davis!!!


Maybe I'm remembering it wrong but I think you would probably more accurately refer to the incident as a ***** move sucker punch than an ass kicking.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I don't recall a Redskin having the threat of breaking probation and spending a couple of decades in prison hanging over his head. And I don't recall a Redskin ever slitting the throat of a team mate either. We did have a guy throw a pie in anothers face though. I guess that's about the same.

Of course not. This thread is about bashing Irvin, not recalling the sins of former Redskinz. That's fine, I'm just saying prove what your saying is true. You know, simple things like Slitting somebodies throat or spending a couple of decades in prison. Simple embelishments like that.

[turbodiesel#44]

Of course not. This thread is about bashing Irvin, not recalling the sins of former Redskinz. That's fine, I'm just saying prove what your saying is true. You know, simple things like Slitting somebodies throat or spending a couple of decades in prison. Simple embelishments like that.

From the Dallas Observer:

"Remember the 1998 scissors incident? Michael Irvin and Cowboys lineman Everett McIver got in some sort of fight over a haircut, and McIver ended up with a 2-inch cut on his neck and stitches. The incident was hushed up by Cowboys officials, dismissed as mere horseplay, and with good reason: Irvin was still on probation, and a violation of its conditions could have landed him in the state penitentiary for as much as 20 years. "

Here's the link again if you missed it:

http://www.dallasobserver.com/2002-09-05/news/think-mink/

Irvin clearly admits grabbing the scissors and cutting the guys throat. Let me quote Irvin himself for you:

"I mean, my head. I lost it. I saw the scissors, grabbed the scissors and cut him. They tried to put a spin on it for me, but I cut him. "

In the throat. With scissors. No embelishment here, my friend.

[ABQCOWBOY]

From the Dallas Observer:

"Remember the 1998 scissors incident? Michael Irvin and Cowboys lineman Everett McIver got in some sort of fight over a haircut, and McIver ended up with a 2-inch cut on his neck and stitches. The incident was hushed up by Cowboys officials, dismissed as mere horseplay, and with good reason: Irvin was still on probation, and a violation of its conditions could have landed him in the state penitentiary for as much as 20 years. "

Here's the link again if you missed it:

http://www.dallasobserver.com/2002-09-05/news/think-mink/

Irvin clearly admits grabbing the scissors and cutting the guys throat. Let me quote Irvin himself for you:

"I mean, my head. I lost it. I saw the scissors, grabbed the scissors and cut him. They tried to put a spin on it for me, but I cut him. "

In the throat. With scissors. No embelishment here, my friend.

So then, what you are saying is that slitting a guys throat, as you clearly indicated earlier is the same as what is described here? Is that what you are trying to say?

Yeah right, no embelishment at all.

[turbodiesel#44]

So then, what you are saying is that slitting a guys throat, as you clearly indicated earlier is the same as what is described here? Is that what you are trying to say?

Yeah right, no embelishment at all.

OK, you are right. It was a playful throat slashing that only required stitches to close. Happens all the time when guys "lose it". I guess I made it sound like he did it on purpose or something.

Irvin is a pillar of the Dallas community.

[ABQCOWBOY]

OK, you are right. It was a playful throat slashing that only required stitches to close. Happens all the time when guys "lose it". I guess I made it sound like he did it on purpose or something.

Irvin is a pillar of the Dallas community.

No, you made it sound like the guy had his throat slit, plain and simple. I've made my point on Irvin. I've said what I thought about him. If you choose to view Mike Irvin as a "pillar of the Dallas community", that is your affair. You are chasing your tail on this thing. While amusing to watch, for a time, that time has now passed.

In the end, Irvin is in the Hall of Fame and that is the bottom line.

[turbodiesel#44]

No, you made it sound like the guy had his throat slit, plain and simple.

The guy had his throat slit. Plain and simple. Irvin has even admitted doing it, in anger no less. Read his quote on the matter.

[BigDFan5]

No maxiumone, you're completely right. In fact, marijuana is worse and even more destructive than crack. All you pot heads out there take notice, turn in the bong, pick up the crack pipe. It's better for you.


:laugh:

[LongLostSkin]

I don't, never have, never will like the Cowboys, but Irvin is a man who has successfully overcome struggles that many haven't or couldn't to become a Hall of Fame player. Whether this be things under his control (drug addiction) or outside (early death of his mother) Irvin is a human being. Yes he did things that make us pissed at what he did on the field, and we can still justifiably be pissed when thinking about it. He's also engaged in off the field behavior that none of us would want to see our friends and family engage in.......but as far as hating him now as a man........ just get over it, it's petty and classless. If you were related to Irvin would you feel the same way??

So many people make it out like they've never made a mistake in their life, and they know who they are. Would you mind PMing me so that I can confess my sins?

oh wait I've done something that has violated the law before, I'll just get my noose ready for the lynch mob instead.:doh:


P.S. :dallasuck

[elkabong82]

No, you made it sound like the guy had his throat slit, plain and simple. I've made my point on Irvin. I've said what I thought about him. If you choose to view Mike Irvin as a "pillar of the Dallas community", that is your affair. You are chasing your tail on this thing. While amusing to watch, for a time, that time has now passed.

In the end, Irvin is in the Hall of Fame and that is the bottom line.

Except people are complaining about the message it sends by having Irvin in the Hall. So there is no "end" here, or "bottom line" or any other closing statement that makes you feel you are correct. The mere fact he's in the Hall is what started the thread. And pulling out scissors and cutting someone's throat is a big deal, especially when it was over an argument about a freakin haircut. No matter how much you try and apologize for him, which Dallas fans have made a career of doing, it doesn't change the fact that what Irvin did then was borderline psychotic.

Irvin's stats have earned him HOF consideration, but for all the controversy, what has he done to make up for all the bad? It seems to many that he basically got a free pass. All he really had to do was broadcast for a few years and make some friends in the media.

The problem is Irvin has a questionable character, and has received the highest honor in football while having a less than honorable character and having done less than honorable actions on and off the field. Irvin's stats and on field accomplishments certainly give him consideration for the Hall, but a lot of people have a problem with the kind of message that sends to fans, children, and other players. And the fact that NFL network won't stop promoting him everwhere, and giving him TV specials, further's the point that the NFL would rather have "flash and sparkle" at the expense of character and respectability. Obviously all Dallas fans want to do is sweep everthing under the rug, and puff their chests because one of "theirs" got in the Hall. And the Monk issue goes beyond Wasington vs. Dallas. That too sends a message. Monk did better than Irvin. Regardless of who we think was more talented, better, etc, Monk overall beat Irvin statistically. Yet Irvin gets the nod, and a player who was quiet, rallied his team, gave to the community, and provided himself as a true role model for children, and other players, is snubbed again. Even Dallas fans say Monk deserved to get in first. Even Irvin said Monk deserved it first.

Some fans are venting because it's quite clear football's highest honor is turning into a disgrace thanks to the voting panel having personal agendas. But many are upset because the NFL and the media have basically sent the message that in the end, good sportsmanship, character, respectability, and perseverance won't be remembered. In a nutshell, they have chosen ratings over role models.


(also, the whole "you've never done anything bad, we all have, therefore it's excusable" argument isn't valid as we aren't on a national stage with camera's in our face almost 24/7, we aren't paid like these guys are, chldren aren't watching us everday. For the money those guys make to play a game I love to play, I'd be a saint. And if it's so hard to be good, then why do most players not have these issues? Everyone is responsible for their actions, regardless of the excuses.)

[ciresolstice]

I don't, never have, never will like the Cowboys, but Irvin is a man who has successfully overcome struggles that many haven't or couldn't to become a Hall of Fame player. Whether this be things under his control (drug addiction) or outside (early death of his mother) Irvin is a human being. Yes he did things that make us pissed at what he did on the field, and we can still justifiably be pissed when thinking about it. He's also engaged in off the field behavior that none of us would want to see our friends and family engage in.......but as far as hating him now as a man........ just get over it, it's petty and classless. If you were related to Irvin would you feel the same way??

So many people make it out like they've never made a mistake in their life, and they know who they are. Would you mind PMing me so that I can confess my sins?

oh wait I've done something that has violated the law before, I'll just get my noose ready for the lynch mob instead.:doh:


P.S. :dallasuck


didn't want to quote the whole thing but I couldn't truncate it because all of it was pertinent. Well said lOngShot. I agree wholeheartedly cowboy or not. and yes, Dallas sucks forever lol.

[Rocky21]

:point2sky Thanks Elkabong. Quality, well thought-out post. I couldn't agree more.

[TonyRomoProBowl]

Except people are complaining about the message it sends by having Irvin in the Hall. So there is no "end" here, or "bottom line" or any other closing statement that makes you feel you are correct. The mere fact he's in the Hall is what started the thread. And pulling out scissors and cutting someone's throat is a big deal, especially when it was over an argument about a freakin haircut. No matter how much you try and apologize for him, which Dallas fans have made a career of doing, it doesn't change the fact that what Irvin did then was borderline psychotic.

Irvin's stats have earned him HOF consideration, but for all the controversy, what has he done to make up for all the bad? It seems to many that he basically got a free pass. All he really had to do was broadcast for a few years and make some friends in the media.

The problem is Irvin has a questionable character, and has received the highest honor in football while having a less than honorable character and having done less than honorable actions on and off the field. Irvin's stats and on field accomplishments certainly give him consideration for the Hall, but a lot of people have a problem with the kind of message that sends to fans, children, and other players. And the fact that NFL network won't stop promoting him everwhere, and giving him TV specials, further's the point that the NFL would rather have "flash and sparkle" at the expense of character and respectability. Obviously all Dallas fans want to do is sweep everthing under the rug, and puff their chests because one of "theirs" got in the Hall. And the Monk issue goes beyond Wasington vs. Dallas. That too sends a message. Monk did better than Irvin. Regardless of who we think was more talented, better, etc, Monk overall beat Irvin statistically. Yet Irvin gets the nod, and a player who was quiet, rallied his team, gave to the community, and provided himself as a true role model for children, and other players, is snubbed again. Even Dallas fans say Monk deserved to get in first. Even Irvin said Monk deserved it first.

Some fans are venting because it's quite clear football's highest honor is turning into a disgrace thanks to the voting panel having personal agendas. But many are upset because the NFL and the media have basically sent the message that in the end, good sportsmanship, character, respectability, and perseverance won't be remembered. In a nutshell, they have chosen ratings over role models.


(also, the whole "you've never done anything bad, we all have, therefore it's excusable" argument isn't valid as we aren't on a national stage with camera's in our face almost 24/7, we aren't paid like these guys are, chldren aren't watching us everday. For the money those guys make to play a game I love to play, I'd be a saint. And if it's so hard to be good, then why do most players not have these issues? Everyone is responsible for their actions, regardless of the excuses.)


good poat. I've been on board with the Monk foir HOF movement, and have been very vocal, evan as a huge Dallas fan, on how dissapointed i am in Irvin and his actions as a player.....this post was very well thought out and i like it.

[BigRay]

Maybe I'm remembering it wrong but I think you would probably more accurately refer to the incident as a ***** move sucker punch than an ass kicking.


You didn't remember it wrong it was a ***** move. Westrbrook is a punk for real. He caught Stephen blindsided he didn't know what happen.

[monkforhall]

Great post Elkabong. That's exactly right.

The voters should be ashamed of themselves, they are acting like little children, they are doing Football a disservice.

[jnhay]

Maybe I'm remembering it wrong but I think you would probably more accurately refer to the incident as a ***** move sucker punch than an ass kicking.
No, it was an ass kicking because either way Stephen Davis would've gotten his ass kicked.

[fansince62]

Yeah I didn't realize jbooma was a Cowboys fan. Whatever. And I'm sorry the *'s offended him so much. Oh well.

I stand by what I say. Emmitt seems like a decent guy. Aikman is one of the better announcers today (if not the best.) But Irvin is deplorable and disgusting in every aspect of life. Ugh.

And for anyone to sit there and talk like his speech, tears and emotion all of a sudden make him a good guy is a joke.


how do we get from good speech to good guy?

I don't care for Irvin either. but I watched and heard everything he had to say. it was meaningful. it had a ring of truth. he didn't have to do it in front of a live audience (including his family) and a national TV audience. he deserves a couple kudos. what's so hard about that? his was a brave act whether you like the guy or not; whether you find fault in how he lives his life or not. you don't have to forgive him to recognize the attempt at contrition and truth....and courage. there are many values in play here...not just the ones you spin on.

or are you so jaded you can't see the difference?

[ABQCOWBOY]

The guy had his throat slit. Plain and simple. Irvin has even admitted doing it, in anger no less. Read his quote on the matter.

A man with his throat slit bleeds out and dies. That's how it works but I suppose it's a symantics thing.

Suffice to say that it is my opinion that you did embelish and you did get callled on it. If you want to say they are the same thing, then thats fine. In your position, perhaps I would too or maybe I would just admit that it is not the same thing and move on.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Except people are complaining about the message it sends by having Irvin in the Hall. So there is no "end" here, or "bottom line" or any other closing statement that makes you feel you are correct. The mere fact he's in the Hall is what started the thread. And pulling out scissors and cutting someone's throat is a big deal, especially when it was over an argument about a freakin haircut. No matter how much you try and apologize for him, which Dallas fans have made a career of doing, it doesn't change the fact that what Irvin did then was borderline psychotic.

Irvin's stats have earned him HOF consideration, but for all the controversy, what has he done to make up for all the bad? It seems to many that he basically got a free pass. All he really had to do was broadcast for a few years and make some friends in the media.

The problem is Irvin has a questionable character, and has received the highest honor in football while having a less than honorable character and having done less than honorable actions on and off the field. Irvin's stats and on field accomplishments certainly give him consideration for the Hall, but a lot of people have a problem with the kind of message that sends to fans, children, and other players. And the fact that NFL network won't stop promoting him everwhere, and giving him TV specials, further's the point that the NFL would rather have "flash and sparkle" at the expense of character and respectability. Obviously all Dallas fans want to do is sweep everthing under the rug, and puff their chests because one of "theirs" got in the Hall. And the Monk issue goes beyond Wasington vs. Dallas. That too sends a message. Monk did better than Irvin. Regardless of who we think was more talented, better, etc, Monk overall beat Irvin statistically. Yet Irvin gets the nod, and a player who was quiet, rallied his team, gave to the community, and provided himself as a true role model for children, and other players, is snubbed again. Even Dallas fans say Monk deserved to get in first. Even Irvin said Monk deserved it first.

Some fans are venting because it's quite clear football's highest honor is turning into a disgrace thanks to the voting panel having personal agendas. But many are upset because the NFL and the media have basically sent the message that in the end, good sportsmanship, character, respectability, and perseverance won't be remembered. In a nutshell, they have chosen ratings over role models.


(also, the whole "you've never done anything bad, we all have, therefore it's excusable" argument isn't valid as we aren't on a national stage with camera's in our face almost 24/7, we aren't paid like these guys are, chldren aren't watching us everday. For the money those guys make to play a game I love to play, I'd be a saint. And if it's so hard to be good, then why do most players not have these issues? Everyone is responsible for their actions, regardless of the excuses.)


People can complain all they want. You can write your congressman if you like. You can boycott NFL games or you can cross dress in front of NBC holding a sign of protest from now till you drop dead and get laid to rest but the fact is that it is done. You don't have to like it. If I were a Redskin fan and I new Monk wasn't in but Irvin was, I probably wouldn't like it either. However, it would still be a done deal and that is the end of it, weather you like it or not.

That's how it works.

[Fred Jones]

how do we get from good speech to good guy?

I don't care for Irvin either. but I watched and heard everything he had to say. it was meaningful. it had a ring of truth. he didn't have to do it in front of a live audience (including his family) and a national TV audience. he deserves a couple kudos. what's so hard about that? his was a brave act whether you like the guy or not; whether you find fault in how he lives his life or not. you don't have to forgive him to recognize the attempt at contrition and truth....and courage. there are many values in play here...not just the ones you spin on.

or are you so jaded you can't see the difference?

Not debating his play on the field or justification for entrance into the HOF (Yes Monk should be first).

However, he produced a heart felt speech in front of lots of people. Will he now live his life a changed man or simply ride the wave for a year and eventually get back into the business of drugs or other criminal activity? Thus making his speech that of just another person running his mouth. Have to wait and see.

[Rocky21]

A man with his throat slit bleeds out and dies. Link?

[ABQCOWBOY]

Link?

In your case Rocky, I think a more apt disription might be missing link.

http://dictionary.laborlawtalk.com/slit

Slit, according to this link, suggests a cut through or a clean cut that creates an opening.


That is the difference between a slit and a cut. A cut can be stitched but a slit is actually an incision that goes completely through the skin, tissue and muslce emerging on the other side, thus creating a slit. That didn't happen with Irvin and the scissors thing. He cut McIver but did not slit his throat.

Anything else you need to understand before I go?

[turbodiesel#44]

In your case Rocky, I think a more apt disription might be missing link.

http://dictionary.laborlawtalk.com/slit

Slit, according to this link, suggests a cut through or a clean cut that creates an opening.


That is the difference between a slit and a cut. A cut can be stitched but a slit is actually an incision that goes completely through the skin, tissue and muslce emerging on the other side, thus creating a slit. That didn't happen with Irvin and the scissors thing. He cut McIver but did not slit his throat.

Anything else you need to understand before I go?

Dude, you got slit for brains.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/slit
4.slit - a narrow fissure crack (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/crack), scissure (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/scissure), cleft (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cleft), crevice (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/crevice), fissure (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fissure) - a long narrow opening
Verb1.slit - make a clean cut through; "slit her throat" slice (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/slice)
cut (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cut) - separate with or as if with an instrument; "Cut the rope"
2.slit - cut a slit into; "slit the throat of the victim" incise (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/incise) - make an incision into by carving or cutting



This is what happened by ALL accounts, including Irvins. Irvin tried to cut in line at a freakin barber shop. The rookie didn't like it and slapped him upside the head. Irvin grabbed a pair of scissors and SLIT the guys throat. What is your delusional interpretation of the event?

[ABQCOWBOY]

Dude, you got slit for brains.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/slit
4.slit - a narrow fissure crack (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/crack), scissure (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/scissure), cleft (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cleft), crevice (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/crevice), fissure (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fissure) - a long narrow opening
Verb1.slit - make a clean cut through; "slit her throat" slice (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/slice)
cut (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cut) - separate with or as if with an instrument; "Cut the rope"
2.slit - cut a slit into; "slit the throat of the victim" incise (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/incise) - make an incision into by carving or cutting



This is what happened by ALL accounts, including Irvins. Irvin tried to cut in line at a freakin barber shop. The rookie didn't like it and slapped him upside the head. Irvin grabbed a pair of scissors and SLIT the guys throat. What is your delusional interpretation of the event?

Whatever. Just as an FYI, McIver was not a rookie. McIver was a 5 year vet at Offensive Guard/Center.

"Dude you got slit for brains."

Way to go there guy. Your all over this.

[turbodiesel#44]

Whatever. Just as an FYI, McIver was not a rookie. McIver was a 5 year vet at Offensive Guard/Center.

"Dude you got slit for brains."

Way to go there guy. Your all over this.

Sorry, thought it was clever at the time. And I think you mean "you're" there.

I concede that the guy was not a rookie. I just assumed he was because generally you have more respect for your teammates than to try to butt in front of them like that. Or slit their throat. But thinking about it, the guy would have had to have known Irvin to disrespect him enough to go upside his head.

Another thing to add to the "Irvin sucks at" list - Ninja.

[pjfootballer]

Somebody tell the Sabres former goalie Clint Malarchuk that he's dead. I bet he doesn't know it yet.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Sorry, thought it was clever at the time. And I think you mean "you're" there.

I concede that the guy was not a rookie. I just assumed he was because generally you have more respect for your teammates than to try to butt in front of them like that. Or slit their throat. But thinking about it, the guy would have had to have known Irvin to disrespect him enough to go upside his head.

Another thing to add to the "Irvin sucks at" list - Ninja.

Alas, he is in the Hall and all the pissing and moaning in the world will not change that now. You may add that to your list while your at it.