The Redskina are not bad...theyre hurt

[hitmandm]

As a Skins fan, I might be looking at this through rose colored glasses, but the reason our offense looks so offensive is easy--60% of our offensive line is out to injuries. There is not just a small drop off from Jansen, Rabach and Thomas to what was on the field Sunday--there was a huge drop off in ability.

This is Redskin football--smash mouth football owned at the trenches. It just is not realistic to own the trenches with our line. Teams are playing a deep cover 2 shell daring us to run and our line cannot open the holes. They are taking away the pass and daring us to run and we can't do it because other team's first team DL is better than our 2nd team OL.

I would say most teams who lose 2 Pro Bowl OL and a very good center at the same time would struggle.

My point is that Redskin football is alive and well. Our team is headed in the right direction and we are a really good football team--We're just not a football team that can replace the rash of OL injuries that would ruin about any other team in the NFL as well.

[Bryan81]

I agree most of the problem is the injuries - but the WR's & RB's all need to catch & hold on to the ball better. That cannot be blamed on injuries, Al Saunders, or a conservative game plan.

[TLusby]

A positive fan! Thanks Hitmandm. We are 4-2 and 1-1/2 games back.

[redskins55]

So is it possible that we can get Randy Thomas back in December?? I read in the Post that they hope he can return early December. That would be a great boost toward a playoff push if we can just get through October and November above .500

[BigMike619]

I agree most of the problem is the injuries - but the WR's & RB's all need to catch & hold on to the ball better. That cannot be blamed on injuries, Al Saunders, or a conservative game plan.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

Every time Santana actually caught a ball and didnt drop it we would all raise our beers and yell and then drink.

Its too bad he didnt go off yesterday or I could have gotten sloppy!!

[stwasm]

So what? Everyone team in the league has injuries. I refuse to use injuries as an excuse because you're essentially saying the back-ups aren't good enough to perform when needed. This just goes back to the importance of scouting, having good drafts and grooming those diamonds-in-the-rough in case of emergency. That's what made the Redskins successful in the past. Not so much, now.

[LiveStrongSkins]

Inuries are a reoccuring theme with this team every season. We need to go with a youth movement in certain positions. If not as starters then as key depth guys. Injuries should not derail teams like it does with the skins. Injuries cant change your whole identity. I mean were going into games with the mindset of letting the defense win the game. I'm glad we got all of our picks this offseason because we need some younger more durable guys. Thomas and Jansen are not durable and our season should not hinge on their health.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

We scored 17 points a game last year also. And the year before that. Injuries?

[D-Day]

Other good teams adapt to injuries and try to mask them with scheme and adjustments, we just try to ignore them.

[Craig]

I am tired of injuries as excuses. The Skins were relatively healthy when the barely beat a horrible Miami team at home in OT. The problems of an inconsistent offense is the same then as it is now. Stop hiding behind injuries as an excuse.

[RonJeremy]

Redskina!!!! WOOT!!!!


Injuries are part of the game...good teams overcome them. :2cents:

[z0eboy]

we have a QB that only started 7 games coming into the miami game, theres a different reason every week why the offense doesnt produce to its full potential, you cant ignore the fact that injury will stunt the growth of an offense, this isnt madden football its real life. stop talking as if the other 31 teams in the NFL will give even the patriots a run for their money even if they have a new QB with more than half of their OL injured

[Riggo#44]

So is it possible that we can get Randy Thomas back in December?? I read in the Post that they hope he can return early December. That would be a great boost toward a playoff push if we can just get through October and November above .500

That would be great if we can get him back for the Buffalo game.

If we can go 3-2 over our next 5, we'll make the playoffs.

[daveakl]

Guys, look at how other teams that have had major injuries to their O-Line are playing:

Baltimore: 4-3, just lost to the Bills, have played a very weak schedule.

Philly: 2-4, just lost to the Bears, not playing well on O at all.

St. Louis: 0-6, just lost to the Seahawks, O-line has resulted in QB getting killed.

Redskins: 4-2, just beat Ariz., missing three starters and still won.

"So what? Everyone team in the league has injuries. I refuse to use injuries as an excuse because you're essentially saying the back-ups aren't good enough to perform when needed. This just goes back to the importance of scouting, having good drafts and grooming those diamonds-in-the-rough in case of emergency. That's what made the Redskins successful in the past. Not so much, now."

The thing is, they are a back-up for a reason. If they were good enough to start in this league then they would be playing for another team (unless they were drafted by the Redskins thus on their first contract and in their first 4 years in the league). With the cap the way it is today it is IMPOSSIBLE to have a back-up at every position. You pick and choose where you have depth. This season we have depth at CB, RB, WR (not great depth ;) ), Safty, LB, D-Line. Our O-line lost three starters and one backup. That means over half of the o-line players we brought into the first game of the season are gone. If you did that to any team it would be tough for them to even compete. We won and almost won in GB.

[Zuck]

Every team goes through a string of injuries and if you get hit in one particular area like we have (offensive line) of course it's going to affect the team negatively.

But we're good enough to still scrap out some wins. Our defense won us the game. We are going through a rough period injury wise and overall it makes us look like a middle of the road team.

When we get some guys back I think we are much better than middle of the road.

4-2, I'm happy.

[Chump Bailey]

So what? Everyone team in the league has injuries. I refuse to use injuries as an excuse because you're essentially saying the back-ups aren't good enough to perform when needed. This just goes back to the importance of scouting, having good drafts and grooming those diamonds-in-the-rough in case of emergency. That's what made the Redskins successful in the past. Not so much, now.

I am in agreement to an extent. To everyone espousing the o-line injuries - no s### sherlock. Anyone and everyone knows we've been hit hard on the line and that obviously will have an effect. But, we have two bona-fide offensive geniuses remember in Al and Gibbs.

Certainly it is reasonable to assume and expect that they should find way to plan for such events and work with what we have. Maybe try the shotgun and try to open up things a bit more to allow some semblance of a running game, take some pressure off of Jason and help in pass protection. Something. I got it. You can only polish a turd so much but I seem to recall Gregg Williams turning subpar talent on defense into an elite unit in 2004-2005 and he's doing his part again.

Whatever the case, if we cannot score points we're finished. It's as simple as that. We are merely staving off the inevitable and that is why most are frustrated. The heck with the Patriot's - if we were facing the Giant's next Sunday instead of them, I still wouldn't give us much of a chance. The offensive line needs to play better whomever is out there.

They're professional football players and we should have the staff to get something out of these guys but we're not for whatever reason. Nobody is expecting them to play at an All-Pro level, but dammit, they have to do something to get better and quick. I think they would be the first one's to acknowledge it.

[ttr77]

It seems like there is always an excuse with this team. Injuries, the weather, bad calls, etc. Only losing teams need excuses. Winning teams overcome these obstacles. Right now, they are 4-2, likely heading towards 4-3. A winning record...but it seems pretty shaky to me.

[hitmandm]

So what? Everyone team in the league has injuries. I refuse to use injuries as an excuse because you're essentially saying the back-ups aren't good enough to perform when needed. This just goes back to the importance of scouting, having good drafts and grooming those diamonds-in-the-rough in case of emergency. That's what made the Redskins successful in the past. Not so much, now.

The issue is that injuries happen to different positions---they do not decimate a single unit. Someone loses a RB and a SS and a DL. That is something you can plug a hole with a pretty good player or two. If a unit loses 3 people, there is a weakness no NFL team has an avbility to cover.

[hitmandm]

First, I dont think anyone can plan for losing 2 Pro Bowl OL and a very good center. It is not realistic. This decimation ruins our running game because the 4 man rush of our opponents first team DL is just better than 3 2nd and 3rd string OL.


My point is that we are a good team. While your last paragraph is a slogan: no matter what happens we should win, win win-- the reality is different.



I am in agreement to an extent. To everyone espousing the o-line injuries - no s### sherlock. Anyone and everyone knows we've been hit hard on the line and that obviously will have an effect. But, we have two bona-fide offensive geniuses remember in Al and Gibbs.

Certainly it is reasonable to assume and expect that they should find way to plan for such events and work with what we have. Maybe try the shotgun and try to open up things a bit more to allow some semblance of a running game, take some pressure off of Jason and help in pass protection. Something. I got it. You can only polish a turd so much but I seem to recall Gregg Williams turning subpar talent on defense into an elite unit in 2004-2005 and he's doing his part again.

Whatever the case, if we cannot score points we're finished. It's as simple as that. We are merely staving off the inevitable and that is why most are frustrated. The heck with the Patriot's - if we were facing the Giant's next Sunday instead of them, I still wouldn't give us much of a chance. The offensive line needs to play better whomever is out there.

They're professional football players and we should have the staff to get something out of these guys but we're not for whatever reason. Nobody is expecting them to play at an All-Pro level, but dammit, they have to do something to get better and quick. I think they would be the first one's to acknowledge it.

[Craig]

we have a QB that only started 7 games coming into the miami game, theres a different reason every week why the offense doesnt produce to its full potential

Campbell is not the reason we struggled against Miami. Moss dropped 3 passes that game. That has continued to be a problem.

[CGSKINS]

Redskina!!!! WOOT!!!!


Injuries are part of the game...good teams overcome them. :2cents: Name me a team with a winning record that is missing 3 starters on the OLINE?

[hitmandm]

The point everyone is missing about injuries is that they all dont happen to one squad. Football is a team sport and it is built around units. The team is often as good as its weakest unit. Injuries happen to a single player across many units, teams have a decent player to plug in or other players can overcome the slight deficiency. When injuries happen to all one unit (an OL for example), the team doesnt have the ability to fill that with sufficient depth and the other OL players can't cover the weakness because they are weak themselves.

Thomas can cover for a Jansen. A Jansen and Rabach can cover for a Thomas. A Pucillo, Wade and whoever can't cover for wach other and the unit breaks down. If the unit breaks down, how is an offense going to have time to develop plays?

[ttr77]

If you were building a team from scratch, you'd probably want to one of your first priorities to be on the lines. Snyder has tried to rebuild this team almost every April with marquee names to keep the excitement level up and keep the cash registers ringing. And drafting 'depth' lineman does not fall into this category.

And we are suprised that they cannot handle a few injuries on the line?!?

[daveakl]

If you were building a team from scratch, you'd probably want to one of your first priorities to be on the lines. Snyder has tried to rebuild this team almost every April with marquee names to keep the excitement level up and keep the cash registers ringing. And drafting 'depth' lineman does not fall into this category.

And we are suprised that they cannot handle a few injuries on the line?!?

Name one team that can lose three of it's starting 5 o-line players and still win against a team that is a .500 team?

[ttr77]

Name one team that can lose three of it's starting 5 o-line players and still win against a team that is a .500 team?

Sorry man, I'm not going to spend my afternoon looking over scouting reports of the other teams in the league to see who is best built to sustain injuries on the OL. But I do know that the Redskins are NOT built this way. And the excuses keep coming...

[daveakl]

Sorry man, I'm not going to spend my afternoon looking over scouting reports of the other teams in the league to see who is best built to sustain injuries on the OL. But I do know that the Redskins are NOT built this way. And the excuses keep coming...

It's not an excuse. We won, we almost won against GB also. If you can't run the ball to the right, if you can't throw deep because you have to max protect and are only able to put two recievers out into paterns, if you have a great defense and a banged up offense and yet you still win the game thatsa good thing and a not making an excuse thing.

If you are saying that the team is horrible on offense and it's the players, coaches, play calling, ref's, whatever's fault I am going to say that it's the injuries fault.

If you are going to say that the front office needs to do a better job with back up players I would say that they have. We lost Dock from last year, traded for Kendell. We lots Jansen, we put in Wade. We lost Thomas, put in Fabini, we lost Rabach, put in someone else (who I honestly don't know who is name is). We are were playing the 6th, 7th, and 8th players on the depth chart and still won. We were playing those guys against a Defense that shut down Pittsburgh. We were playing those guys for 60 minutes and yet we WON the game.

When you have a limited amount of money to spend on your players you can not have all pro people at the 6th, 7th, and 8th spots on your bench. The players you have in thos spots are either 1st or second year players, or people that have been around the league and are not good enough to start.

If there were 210 starting calliber O-Linemen in the NFL then yes, you could say each team should have 8 on their roster. The fact is there are not. We have one of the best O-Line's when healthy, the fact that we are still able to win or be in the game on the road in the rain against a 1 loss team tells me that our coachs, players, front office are doing a hell of a job.

[hitmandm]

This is absolutely correct. When we are realistically evaluating our team's performance and the job of the coaching staff and such, we need to seperate motivational slogans from reality.

The Redskins are a good football team that can be a force in the league. But about all football teams can't insert 3 or 4 2nd and 3rd string OL and expect to have them "get the job done" against first string NFL defensive lines and linebackers.

If we had 2 of these three: Johnson, Rabach and Thomas--we would have rushed for 100+ yards and scored 30+ points...no doubt.



It's not an excuse. We won, we almost won against GB also. If you can't run the ball to the right, if you can't throw deep because you have to max protect and are only able to put two recievers out into paterns, if you have a great defense and a banged up offense and yet you still win the game thatsa good thing and a not making an excuse thing.

If you are saying that the team is horrible on offense and it's the players, coaches, play calling, ref's, whatever's fault I am going to say that it's the injuries fault.

If you are going to say that the front office needs to do a better job with back up players I would say that they have. We lost Dock from last year, traded for Kendell. We lots Jansen, we put in Wade. We lost Thomas, put in Fabini, we lost Rabach, put in someone else (who I honestly don't know who is name is). We are were playing the 6th, 7th, and 8th players on the depth chart and still won. We were playing those guys against a Defense that shut down Pittsburgh. We were playing those guys for 60 minutes and yet we WON the game.

When you have a limited amount of money to spend on your players you can not have all pro people at the 6th, 7th, and 8th spots on your bench. The players you have in thos spots are either 1st or second year players, or people that have been around the league and are not good enough to start.

If there were 210 starting calliber O-Linemen in the NFL then yes, you could say each team should have 8 on their roster. The fact is there are not. We have one of the best O-Line's when healthy, the fact that we are still able to win or be in the game on the road in the rain against a 1 loss team tells me that our coachs, players, front office are doing a hell of a job.

[cnhnyy]

Well, our OL has been playing pretty respectfully. There are no other magor injuries outside the Oline. Our entire defense is healthy. I do not think we had much worse injuries than others. Look at girls, they lost their starting NT, starting Corner (then Newman and now Henry) and their best WR last year has not played a down this year...or Gints, Osi Jacbos all missed games and they are doing fine.

[TotalRecall]

As a Skins fan, I might be looking at this through rose colored glasses, but the reason our offense looks so offensive is easy--60% of our offensive line is out to injuries. There is not just a small drop off from Jansen, Rabach and Thomas to what was on the field Sunday--there was a huge drop off in ability.


Honestly, do you think the offensive playcalling or performance would be any different with a healthy line? C'mon. The offense has been frustrating to look at since Gibbs got here in 2004.

[daveakl]

Well, our OL has been playing pretty respectfully. There are no other magor injuries outside the Oline. Our entire defense is healthy. I do not think we had much worse injuries than others. Look at girls, they lost their starting NT, starting Corner (then Newman and now Henry) and their best WR last year has not played a down this year...or Gints, Osi Jacbos all missed games and they are doing fine.

But with the girls they didn't lose the starters all at the same position. Imagine if they lost Glen, Owens, and Crayton. Or if the Giants lost Strahan, Osi, and Tuck at the same time. Injuries are part of the game and when you think about it as a team we have not been hit any worse in overall numbers, just that the majority seem to be at one spot.

Also, Osi only missed the first game (they lost)