Let's put together an ES Five Year Plan

[Art McDonough]

Here's my contribution for next season's starters. Use it as a starting point and let's see what kind of plan evolves to build a winner within 3 to 5 years.

Position Player Experience See Notes

WR Mike Espy 1 *
LT Stephon Heyer R
LG Randy Thomas 8 **
C Casey Rabach 6 **
RG Ross Tucker 5 **
RT Chris Samuels 7 **
TE Chris Cooley 3
WR Antwain Randel-El 5 **
QB Jason Campbell 2
FB Nehemiah Broughton 2
RB Rock Cartright 5 *

LDE Demetric Evans 5 **
LDT Lorenzo Alexander 1
RDT Anthony Montgomery 1
RDE Chris Wilson 1
SLB Marcus Washington 7 **
MLB H.B. Blades R
WLB Rocky McIntosh 1
LCB Leigh Torrence 1 *
RCB Carlos Rogers 2
SS LaRon Landry R
FS Sean Taylor 3

* Look for immediate upgrade through draft, free agency, or trade. Only players with 3 or less years experiece considered.

** Look to replace within 3-4 years with a younger player.

[Combatant]

What happened to Moss and Portis or Betts?

[corrupt3d]

Umm...WHAT?

No Moss, no Portis, Kendall has been amazing, as has Springs, I'd pick Smoot over Torrence, no Sellers? Where's Fletcher?

if thats a winning team, i think we're trying to win the first pick in the draft

[superozman]

Sorry thread starter...BUT THANK GOD YOUR NOT A SALARIED MEMBER OF THE REDSKINS...

Portis, Moss, Carter, Sellers, Fletcher, Springs, SMoot...all gone?

What are you smoking?

[Ruggala]

Mike Espy? Dude what is wrong with you?

[SOCOandSKINS]

What the heck is this guy talking about. No Moss,Betts,Portis and no Fletcher. that is a solid nucleus of our team. And to have Leigh Torrence of all the corners to start.Well I hope that is not the roster next year if so we are in trouble.

[SKINZ33]

Here's my contribution for next season's starters. Use it as a starting point and let's see what kind of plan evolves to build a winner within 3 to 5 years.

Position Player Experience See Notes

WR Mike Espy 1 *
LT Stephon Heyer R
LG Randy Thomas 8 **
C Casey Rabach 6 **
RG Ross Tucker 5 **
RT Chris Samuels 7 **
TE Chris Cooley 3
WR Antwain Randel-El 5 **
QB Jason Campbell 2
FB Nehemiah Broughton 2
RB Rock Cartright 5 *

LDE Demetric Evans 5 **
LDT Lorenzo Alexander 1
RDT Anthony Montgomery 1
RDE Chris Wilson 1
SLB Marcus Washington 7 **
MLB H.B. Blades R
WLB Rocky McIntosh 1
LCB Leigh Torrence 1 *
RCB Carlos Rogers 2
SS LaRon Landry R
FS Sean Taylor 3

* Look for immediate upgrade through draft, free agency, or trade. Only players with 3 or less years experiece considered.

** Look to replace within 3-4 years with a younger player.

Just curious, but are Moss, Portis, Betts in this plan?

If they let me know and I'll give you my opinion of a long term plan.

[SkinsFan48]

:cheers: LOLLOLLOLLOLLLOLLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL:cheers:

[Dan T.]

This is misguided at best, delusional at worst. It's nice to build for the future. You can do that by sprinkling in younger guys with the vets, getting them spot experience as you go. You don't have to bench anybody over 26.

On defense at least, the Skins are on the right track in mixing in youth with experience. Anthony Montgomery and Kedrick Golston anchor the middle for much of the game. Demetric Evans gets reps as a rush specialist. Rocky, Sean Taylor, Carlos (before the injury) and Landry are entrenched as starters. Blades is seeing spot duty.

Offense is lagging on the youth movement, but there's progress. Campbell's young. Cooley is too. Portis is young chronologically, though not in running back years. They need an infusion of youth on the line. Heyer's a good first step. He needs other kids his generation on the team.

I hope your illustration was a starting point for discussion, and not a real desire to throw away the next 2 to 3 years.

[SnyderMustGo]

Can't Rebuild. Must Have Overpaid, Underperforming Stars Who Are "beasts".

Must Maintain Mediocrity.

[DGreenistheBest]

Pittman4Two, is that you?

[Forehead]

At first, I thought he meant that's what our team would look like in 3-5 years, that would explain the missing people due to age, cap casualties, etc. But upon second reading, I also realize that this means we would have drafted no one new or signed anybody for the next 3-5 years, so this makes no sense.



Perhaps you should try again OP.

[Bishop Hammer]

Can't Rebuild. Must Have Overpaid, Underperforming Stars Who Are "beasts".

Must Maintain Mediocrity.

My word, are you a member of the Front Office! That sounds like their game plan every year.

[Dondrae474]

Where's the thread starter? No resposnes?

[capt1an chaos]

Pittman4Two, is that you?

No no it's Mike Espy

[Slacky McSlackAss]

Its like hes trying to get people to insult him so they get banned. :laugh:

[capt1an chaos]

I dont see a huge problem with the personel we have right now sticking together for 3 more years minus one or 2 starters i.e. #85,#24. A tall reciever wouldnt hurt, but we HAVE a possesion reciever(#47). The problem isnt the personel, its the coaching staff. Im not on the fire Gibbs bandwagon yet...by the way what was wrong with our Offense the last half of 2005 that we needed to bring in Saunders? I think it would be a different ball game if Joe had stayed in control of the O and we plugged in JC for 2006-2007 season.....maybe? I think after the playoff run in 2005 we tinkered a bit too much. IMO

[Audible_Red40]

Wow!

Bring back Palmer, Bramlet, Lumsden & Hall, then you're on to something?!?!?.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Good, God! That is the worst team in football.

[Art McDonough]

Wait a minute. Either you guys didn't understand my thread or, well I don't want to insult anyone. Here's the deal. Where do we want to be in 5 years? Most teams who want a winner in 5 years have to look at where each player will be in 5 years and make some tough decisions. Also, please read the footnotes, you do know what footnotes... I'm sorry, I don't want to insult anyone. I didn't say this would be our team, nor did I say that we would necessarily get rid of any older players. But how can young players develop sitting on the bench? The current Redskin team is mediocre at best and with all our so called front line players. We need radical changes if we want to be good somewhere down the road. The next two or three years ought to be rebuilding years. We have to either develop the young players we have or get some new young players and put a team together. How old will Clinton Portis be in 5 years and will he even be able to walk upright? I'm looking for ideas of how to rebuild this team because the current version isn't working. Note to administrator: There seems to be a lot of personal attacks on me for this thread. My understanding is that was going to stop.

[Ellis]

No offense, but a topic like this is much easier to have in the offseason.
There are less people here in the offseason, for one, and that means you can avoid 80% of the responses to your thread being nothing more than insults.
It also means you'll get a GOOD discussion, rather than a thread highjack by all the naysayers.

Bring this topic up again in March 2008. That's when the TRUE fans of this site can actually discuss things like this.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

What happened to Moss and Portis or Betts?

I was thinking the same exact thing. Im glad this guy isnt running the team.

[EvoSkins]

Wait a minute. Either you guys didn't understand my thread or, well I don't want to insult anyone. Here's the deal. Where do we want to be in 5 years? Most teams who want a winner in 5 years have to look at where each player will be in 5 years and make some tough decisions. Also, please read the footnotes, you do know what footnotes... I'm sorry, I don't want to insult anyone. I didn't say this would be our team, nor did I say that we would necessarily get rid of any older players. But how can young players develop sitting on the bench? The current Redskin team is mediocre at best and with all our so called front line players. We need radical changes if we want to be good somewhere down the road. The next two or three years ought to be rebuilding years. We have to either develop the young players we have or get some new young players and put a team together. How old will Clinton Portis be in 5 years and will he even be able to walk upright? I'm looking for ideas of how to rebuild this team because the current version isn't working. Note to administrator: There seems to be a lot of personal attacks on me for this thread. My understanding is that was going to stop.

Danny Boy would never stand for the next two to three years being rebuilding years. He wants to win every year.

Young players have to develop in practice and preseason and make the most of what playing time they get. Young players should be better prepared than their starting counterparts because they never know when someone gets injured or their number comes up. I am not going to sacrifice the Skins winning games and being competitive because some young pup is inexperienced.

Starting players are phased out and get replaced when they don't produce. If Espy, Tucker, Broughton, Blades and Torrence were that good, they would be starting. Not all players are meant to start, some are specialists and others are life long backups. Where would the Skins be today if not for Fabini, Wade, Thrash, Smoot, Godfrey, Prieleau, etc. who were backups and now start. Portis will most likely not be here in 5 years and Betts and Cartwright might not either.

The NFL means Not For Long and it is a what have you done for me lately league. You can't predict what happens from season to season. Major roster changes can't happen because of the cap hits.

Things do need change. This may mean a coaching change. The biggest change that definitely needs to happen is hiring a GM.

And oh yeah, grow a thicker skin. When you state very stupid opinions, expect backlash.

[DCranon21]

I'm guessing this is his Madden '08 lineup. He may be on season 2010 ;).

But thank god your not the GM, that is a best 6-10 team, if that.

[BuryYourDuke]

Man...if Rock and Mike Espy are starters...ouch. I think this team probably goes 0-16. Seriously. Who the heck backs them up? My nephew that plays JV? I understand what you are trying to do here man, but seriously, no one has insulted you. It does however require great restraint not to.

[Mr. S]

Here's my contribution for next season's starters. Use it as a starting point and let's see what kind of plan evolves to build a winner within 3 to 5 years.


I'll bite on this list, since I love front office stuff.

First, new coaching staff. Hopefull we can keep Danny Smith and some of our assistant coaches on offense and defense. It is assumed that Gibbs goes, Breaux and Bugel as well.

GM: guy with experience to hire a great scouting team and find talent himself
HC: younger guy with some experience and a flexible and open mind
OC: guy brought in by new GM or HC, preferrably younger, or Russ Grimm.
QB: Not sure
RB: Byner
WR: maybe keep Stan Hixon, it's not his fault Lloyd is a bum
O-Line: Grimm or anyone

DC: New Guy as well
DL: Hopefully keep Blache
LB: Olivadotti or whoever our LB coach is (either he is LB or QB, keep him regardless)
DB: Jerry Gray
ST: Danny Smith

Now for players, here is my starting roster in 5 years:
QB: Campbell
RB: Portis with a young RB waiting in the wings. Betts is gone by then.
WR: Moss still around, 4 year veteran that we drafted in 2008, other guys
TE: Cooley
LT: Samuels may still be playing
LG: Guy drafted in 2008
C: Replacement for Rabach, maybe drafted in 2010 or 2011
RG: Thomas replacement also drafted in 2010-2012
RT: Stephon Heyer (if we're lucky, otherwise a free agent).

LE: Carter
DT: Montgomery
DT: 2009-2011 draft pick
RE: 2008 draft pick
LOLB: Marcus will be gone in 5. Maybe a 2011 draft pick
MLB: HB BLades if we're lucky, or a free agent that knows the new DC's system.
ROLB: Rocky Mac
CB: Rogers (yes I have faith)
CB: yet another draft pick
CB: Smoot may still be around
FS: Taylor
SS: Landry

I think with solid drafting from 2008-2010, we should be solid. THE major thing is finding the right GM though.

[Forehead]

I'm looking for ideas of how to rebuild this team because the current version isn't working. Note to administrator: There seems to be a lot of personal attacks on me for this thread. My understanding is that was going to stop.

Yeah, I agree with some above posters, you need to grow a little bit thicker skin, you weren't getting it that badly. Not compared to some I've seen on here. The reason people are giving you a hard time is because you're turning over starting jobs to people like Mike Espy, Nehemiah Broughton, Rock Cartwright, Leigh Torrence, etc. You're talking about rebuilding, but you've just plugged every questionable spot with someone we already have, rather than draft picks. And you say they need to be replaced. That will work out even worse than our current system, I'm afraid. As much as I love Rock, I don't think anyone is going to fear a Cartwright-Broughton backfield.

Now then, that aside, I still like this idea, although it probably is better for the offseason. But, like Mr. S, I'm a sucker for this stuff, so I'm looking at five years from now. This is just a guess, but it's my thoughts. Age the player will be in five years in parentheses.

OFFENSE

QB: Jason Campbell (31) If he has developed as we hope, he should be extremely solid at this point, with 5-6 more good years in him.

RB: Draft pick. I have a bad feeling Portis is going to wind up as a cap casualty at some point, and Betts hasn't been endearing himself to the coaches or the fanbase. In five years, someone new is here.

LT: Chris Samuels (35) At 35, Samuels is at the tail end of his career, and has probably kept restructuring his contract. If he doesn't, he'll be released, but I like to think he'll play his whole career here. This is also assuming his many nagging injuries don't catch up with him. His backup will need to have been drafted by this point.

LG: Draft pick. We need a lot of depth on our lines, I know nothing about the backups we currently have.

C: Casey Rabach (35) Centers generally last a little longer in their careers, so Rabach may be able to offer a little more, but will also need to be replaced soon. Late round draft pick on the roster to replace him.

RG: Draft pick. At this point, Randy Thomas would be 36, and he's suffered two serious injuries in his time here. In the next five years, I expect that to happen again, and he'll probably hang it up before 2012. I love the guy, but I don't expect him to still be playing.

RT: Stephon Heyer (28) I like what I've seen out of Heyer in his limited playing time, and think he was a great undrafted rookie pickup. Jansen will have retired by this point, maybe for the same reasons as Thomas. If Heyer shows enough, he may be moved to LT to protect Campbell's blind side.

TE: Chris Cooley (30) He'll still be in his prime, he's been signed, he'll still be here. Solid.

WR1: Draft Pick. Santana Moss may be gone by this point, whether by cap issues, injuries or personal choice. He'll be 32 at this point. I'd like to see him still here, if healthy, but my heart tells me no.

WR2: Antwaan Randle El (32) Like Moss, also 32, but I see him continuing to be a solid possession receiver for us for the future. More likely than Moss to stay with us.

WR3: Mike Espy (29) I'll throw the OP a bone here, Espy might fill in well at this position, and he'll still be young. Besides which, we have other areas of need, and we're already going to be spending at least one high draft pick on a wideout. I've chosen to use a 3rd Wideout over a Fullback, that position is kind of being phased out of the NFL.

DEFENSE

DE: Andre Carter (32) Carter has come on strong, and D Ends can be effective into their 30's. I see him being a cornerstone rusher for years.

DT: Kedric Golston (29) I still think Golston will be effective, and will continue to benefit from learning from Griffin.

DT: Draft pick. I'm not sold on Montgomery, and Griffin will be in his late 30's by this point. He'll be a cap cut before that anyway.

DE: Draft pick, and hopefully the 2008 first rounder.

OLB: Draft pick. At this point, Marcus Washington would be 35, if he's even on the team still.

MLB: H.B. Blades (28) I really hope this kid develops. He's got decent, not great size, and it would be awesome to have a middle linebacker named Blades. If not him, this is another draft pick. (Dan Connor anyone...sorry, homerism coming out)

OLB: Rocky McIntosh (30) Still in his prime and hopefully continues to develop into a stud.

CB: Carlos Rogers (31) I still think Rogers can be a useful piece.

SS: LaRon Landry (28) No questions here, and he'll still be in his 20's. Awesome.

FS: Sean Taylor (29) I'm practically swooning over the idea of having these two patroling the backfield for the next five years, and still being in their 20's. Please, for God's sake, extend this man's contract. Please.

CB: Draft pick. Preferably a stud, I'd much prefer Rogers as the #2. Springs will be gone/retired, Smoot can hold it down if necessary.


So that's it, the way I see it, we'll need to replace a minimum of eight positions in the next five years through the draft, possibly as many as ten. Seems like a lot, but the New England Patriots, a benchmark, have replaced a ton of people in the past five years. Since '02, they have all new wide receivers, new RB, new linemen on both sides, etc. We have good pieces in place, we just need to be smart. We do NOT need to blow everything up.

Sorry for the lengthy reply, wanted to make the post where I enter the "Special Teams Ace" category a good one.:cheers:

[BuryYourDuke]

Yeah, I agree with some above posters, you need to grow a little bit thicker skin, you weren't getting it that badly. Not compared to some I've seen on here. The reason people are giving you a hard time is because you're turning over starting jobs to people like Mike Espy, Nehemiah Broughton, Rock Cartwright, Leigh Torrence, etc. You're talking about rebuilding, but you've just plugged every questionable spot with someone we already have, rather than draft picks. And you say they need to be replaced. That will work out even worse than our current system, I'm afraid. As much as I love Rock, I don't think anyone is going to fear a Cartwright-Broughton backfield.

Now then, that aside, I still like this idea, although it probably is better for the offseason. But, like Mr. S, I'm a sucker for this stuff, so I'm looking at five years from now. This is just a guess, but it's my thoughts. Age the player will be in five years in parentheses.

OFFENSE

QB: Jason Campbell (31) If he has developed as we hope, he should be extremely solid at this point, with 5-6 more good years in him.

RB: Draft pick. I have a bad feeling Portis is going to wind up as a cap casualty at some point, and Betts hasn't been endearing himself to the coaches or the fanbase. In five years, someone new is here.

LT: Chris Samuels (35) At 35, Samuels is at the tail end of his career, and has probably kept restructuring his contract. If he doesn't, he'll be released, but I like to think he'll play his whole career here. This is also assuming his many nagging injuries don't catch up with him. His backup will need to have been drafted by this point.

LG: Draft pick. We need a lot of depth on our lines, I know nothing about the backups we currently have.

C: Casey Rabach (35) Centers generally last a little longer in their careers, so Rabach may be able to offer a little more, but will also need to be replaced soon. Late round draft pick on the roster to replace him.

RG: Draft pick. At this point, Randy Thomas would be 36, and he's suffered two serious injuries in his time here. In the next five years, I expect that to happen again, and he'll probably hang it up before 2012. I love the guy, but I don't expect him to still be playing.

RT: Stephon Heyer (28) I like what I've seen out of Heyer in his limited playing time, and think he was a great undrafted rookie pickup. Jansen will have retired by this point, maybe for the same reasons as Thomas. If Heyer shows enough, he may be moved to LT to protect Campbell's blind side.

TE: Chris Cooley (30) He'll still be in his prime, he's been signed, he'll still be here. Solid.

WR1: Draft Pick. Santana Moss may be gone by this point, whether by cap issues, injuries or personal choice. He'll be 32 at this point. I'd like to see him still here, if healthy, but my heart tells me no.

WR2: Antwaan Randle El (32) Like Moss, also 32, but I see him continuing to be a solid possession receiver for us for the future. More likely than Moss to stay with us.

WR3: Mike Espy (29) I'll throw the OP a bone here, Espy might fill in well at this position, and he'll still be young. Besides which, we have other areas of need, and we're already going to be spending at least one high draft pick on a wideout. I've chosen to use a 3rd Wideout over a Fullback, that position is kind of being phased out of the NFL.

DEFENSE

DE: Andre Carter (32) Carter has come on strong, and D Ends can be effective into their 30's. I see him being a cornerstone rusher for years.

DT: Kedric Golston (29) I still think Golston will be effective, and will continue to benefit from learning from Griffin.

DT: Draft pick. I'm not sold on Montgomery, and Griffin will be in his late 30's by this point. He'll be a cap cut before that anyway.

DE: Draft pick, and hopefully the 2008 first rounder.

OLB: Draft pick. At this point, Marcus Washington would be 35, if he's even on the team still.

MLB: H.B. Blades (28) I really hope this kid develops. He's got decent, not great size, and it would be awesome to have a middle linebacker named Blades. If not him, this is another draft pick. (Dan Connor anyone...sorry, homerism coming out)

OLB: Rocky McIntosh (30) Still in his prime and hopefully continues to develop into a stud.

CB: Carlos Rogers (31) I still think Rogers can be a useful piece.

SS: LaRon Landry (28) No questions here, and he'll still be in his 20's. Awesome.

FS: Sean Taylor (29) I'm practically swooning over the idea of having these two patroling the backfield for the next five years, and still being in their 20's. Please, for God's sake, extend this man's contract. Please.

CB: Draft pick. Preferably a stud, I'd much prefer Rogers as the #2. Springs will be gone/retired, Smoot can hold it down if necessary.


So that's it, the way I see it, we'll need to replace a minimum of eight positions in the next five years through the draft, possibly as many as ten. Seems like a lot, but the New England Patriots, a benchmark, have replaced a ton of people in the past five years. Since '02, they have all new wide receivers, new RB, new linemen on both sides, etc. We have good pieces in place, we just need to be smart. We do NOT need to blow everything up.

Sorry for the lengthy reply, wanted to make the post where I enter the "Special Teams Ace" category a good one.:cheers:

I think you have some decent thoughts, but I really don't think a lot of those guys will be here in five years. Go back in time five years. Who is on this team that was then? I can't really think of anyone off the top of my head. Now, we do have some young players for the first time in a while, so this may become a possibility. I can certainly see Taylor, Landry, and even Rogers being here in 5 years. On the offensive side of the ball, the only two guys with the possibility in my mind of being here in five years are Campbell and Cooley. Moss and El are gonners in 2-3 years tops. Portis has 2-3 tops as well. Hard to tell on the lines, but I have my doubts that Heyer would ever be a starter at this franchise. We will go get a free agent to replace Jansen. Overall, I definitely think your post was much more insightful than the original, which was ridiculous.

[D'Pablo]

Ross Tucker? You do know he retired, right?

As for a five year plan, I've only got a three year plan:

Year 1: Cut Brandon Lloyd, Phillip Daniels, and Shawn Springs. Sign Asante Samuel. Draft DL in the first two rounds. Draft OL/DL/ in the following rounds.

Year 2: Cut Santana Moss, Marcus Washington, Clinton Portis, and Randy Thomas. Sign Justin Tuck and Angelo Crowell. Draft a RB in the first round. Draft OT/OG/WR in the next three rounds. Select BPA for the ensuing selections.

Year 3: Cut London Fletcher, Cornelius Griffin, and Andre Carter. Sign Larry Fitzgerald. Draft a RB in the first round. Draft DE in the next two rounds. Draft Secondary/OL/DL for the rest of the draft.

[Ax]

First, everybody with a member number higher than 5,000 would be banned immediately.

The moderators would then remove any of those 5,000 they deem, expendable.

Reinstatement would require an 80% approval vote from those remaining original members.

A one year probation period would then be required to return to full membership status.

Fans of opposing teams would NOT be permitted to post pics of their team anywhere on the site, ever.

Anybody that........

What? I thought this was an Extremeskins 5 year plan.

[DemSkinz]

No no it's Mike Espy

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[Superius Maximus]

Now we are going with a Ted Leonsis stratedgy?:doh: This is why none of you have been or will be offered coaching jobs.

[RDSCNZ20]

I like the thread not the content tho.. portis is still very young and the heart of the offensive..

[Art McDonough]

I'll say it again. Look at the endnotes. Nowhere did I say we would not be drafting. Everywhere there is a marginal player, a note says we will try to upgrade that position IMMEDIATELY. I only included Mike Espy because he is the best very young player we currently have on the roster at WR. I don't think he really has a dogs chance of being there after the draft/free agency. And for the guy who said Ross Tucker is retired, look at the IR list. By gosh, there he is. This team needs to draft, trade, hire, steal alot of new players over the next 5 years if it wants to truly get better.

[Forehead]

I think you have some decent thoughts, but I really don't think a lot of those guys will be here in five years. Go back in time five years. Who is on this team that was then? I can't really think of anyone off the top of my head. Now, we do have some young players for the first time in a while, so this may become a possibility. I can certainly see Taylor, Landry, and even Rogers being here in 5 years. On the offensive side of the ball, the only two guys with the possibility in my mind of being here in five years are Campbell and Cooley. Moss and El are gonners in 2-3 years tops. Portis has 2-3 tops as well. Hard to tell on the lines, but I have my doubts that Heyer would ever be a starter at this franchise. We will go get a free agent to replace Jansen. Overall, I definitely think your post was much more insightful than the original, which was ridiculous.


I may be overshooting a little on how many we have left in five years, but I'm hoping/praying for some continuity. Some of the borderline guys may be retired by then.

As to the OP, I understand Clinton Portis is the heart of our offense right now, and I love the guy and all his weird outfits. However, his total cap hit for this year is about $4 million, and will be 8.75 million in 2008. I don't remember how long his contract is good for, but I expect that number will continue to climb in '09 and '10. At some point, he's going to have to restructure, or he's going to get cut.

FYI, apparently we have 4.5 million in dead money being paid to Adam Archuleta this year.:doh:

[EvoSkins]

Go back in time five years. Who is on this team that was then? I can't really think of anyone off the top of my head.

i'm bored, so here we go. The 2002 Redskins was the first year of Spurrier Era and they went 7-9.

Starters:
QB: Shane Matthews/Patrick Ramsey
RB: Stephen Davis/Kenny Watson/ Ladell Betts
FB: Bryan Johnson
WR: Rod Gardner/Derrius Thompson/Darnerien McCants
TE: Walter Rasby/Zeron Flemister
OT: Chris Samuels, Jon Jansen
OG: Tre Johnson, David Loeverne
C: Larry Moore
DE: Bruce Smith, Renaldo Wynn
DT: Daryl Gardener, Dan Wilkenson
LB: Lavar Arrington, Jessie Armstead, Jeremiah Trotter
CB: Champ Bailey, Darrell Green, Fred Smoot
S: Sam Shade, Ifeanyi Ohalete

Of the 2002 roster, only 7 guys (Ethan Albright, Chris Samuels, Jon Jansen, Fred Smoot, Ladell Betts, Rock Cartwright, and Ross Tucker) are still on the team. I know the 2002 was the Gatorskins, but less than 20 of the guys on the roster are still playing in the NFL.

A lot can happen in 5 years.

[helptheSKINS]

i'm bored, so here we go. The 2002 Redskins was the first year of Spurrier Era and they went 7-9.

Starters:
QB: Shane Matthews/Patrick Ramsey
RB: Stephen Davis/Kenny Watson/ Ladell Betts
FB: Bryan Johnson
WR: Rod Gardner/Derrius Thompson/Darnerien McCants
TE: Walter Rasby/Zeron Flemister
OT: Chris Samuels, Jon Jansen
OG: Tre Johnson, David Loeverne
C: Larry Moore
DE: Bruce Smith, Renaldo Wynn
DT: Daryl Gardener, Dan Wilkenson
LB: Lavar Arrington, Jessie Armstead, Jeremiah Trotter
CB: Champ Bailey, Darrell Green, Fred Smoot
S: Sam Shade, Ifeanyi Ohalete

Of the 2002 roster, only 7 guys (Ethan Albright, Chris Samuels, Jon Jansen, Fred Smoot, Ladell Betts, Rock Cartwright, and Ross Tucker) are still on the team. I know the 2002 was the Gatorskins, but less than 20 of the guys on the roster are still playing in the NFL.

A lot can happen in 5 years.

Way to put it into perspective :applause:

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I'll say it again. Look at the endnotes. Nowhere did I say we would not be drafting. Everywhere there is a marginal player, a note says we will try to upgrade that position IMMEDIATELY. I only included Mike Espy because he is the best very young player we currently have on the roster at WR. I don't think he really has a dogs chance of being there after the draft/free agency. And for the guy who said Ross Tucker is retired, look at the IR list. By gosh, there he is. This team needs to draft, trade, hire, steal alot of new players over the next 5 years if it wants to truly get better.

I see what you're aiming for and I don't disagree at all. This team needs a face lift...period. We need to throw all of our young guys out there and see what we have. That way we'll know what else we need to build a champion after we uncover our diamonds in the rough.

Consequently, this will never happen, but I would actually be excited to see us try to build from scratch. We'd have to be willing to endure a couple down seasons, but it would be much more exciting to go 4-12 with a young team that might become something than it is to go 7-9 with an older team that has hit its ceiling.

If we KNEW Snyder would be patient, this is the type of approach I'd like to see our next (hopefully young) coach employ.

[D'Pablo]

And for the guy who said Ross Tucker is retired, look at the IR list. By gosh, there he is.

Ross Tucker: "Before signing my medical paperwork, I asked the team for an MRI to make sure my neck was OK after having those two stingers in the game. It turns out I have a herniated disc that may require surgery at some point. Two doctors told me I shouldn't play again this year because of some signs of spinal cord irritation. They don't think it is a good idea if I ever play again. The Redskins put me on injured reserve, but the end result is the same: I will never play football again."

Taken from this article:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/09/02/tucker/index.html

Perhaps not officially 'retired', but that looks pretty retired to me. He wasn't even good to begin with so I'm not sure why you'd have him as a starting lineman.

[Art McDonough]

I see what you're aiming for and I don't disagree at all. This team needs a face lift...period. We need to throw all of our young guys out there and see what we have. That way we'll know what else we need to build a champion after we uncover our diamonds in the rough.

Consequently, this will never happen, but I would actually be excited to see us try to build from scratch. We'd have to be willing to endure a couple down seasons, but it would be much more exciting to go 4-12 with a young team that might become something than it is to go 7-9 with an older team that has hit its ceiling.

If we KNEW Snyder would be patient, this is the type of approach I'd like to see our next (hopefully young) coach employ.

Thank you. Finally, someone who understands what I was trying to say...perhaps poorly. One of the best teams in the history of the NFL, the '90's Coyboys went 1-15 in 1989, Troy Aikman's rookie year. (They beat the Redskins). Two seasons later, they were in the playoffs and three years later they won the SB. A total rebuilding program is painful and takes patience. We need to find out which young players on this current squad have a future in the NFL and then get busy with the draft, free agency, and trades to get more young players to fill out the roster. We need youth with potential so they can all grow together. We've tried everything else and it hasn't worked. I do agree, Dan Snyder may not have the patience for this approach so we may just continue to be a mediocre team.

[jamesbondman]

What the heck is this guy talking about. No Moss,Betts,Portis and no Fletcher. that is a solid nucleus of our team. And to have Leigh Torrence of all the corners to start.Well I hope that is not the roster next year if so we are in trouble.

Actually, not to break your fantasy...but this franchise is already in trouble and has been now for about 15 years. We need 8 new starters next year just to compete with Dallas.

Springs, M. Washington, Griffin, Daniels on defense (all injury prone)

Moss, Lloyd, Thrash, Jansen ( all injury prone)

we cannot continue to field a team each year which looks great on paper because the game is played on the field NOT ON PAPER. These above players get hurt too easily

[Art McDonough]

Ross Tucker: "Before signing my medical paperwork, I asked the team for an MRI to make sure my neck was OK after having those two stingers in the game. It turns out I have a herniated disc that may require surgery at some point. Two doctors told me I shouldn't play again this year because of some signs of spinal cord irritation. They don't think it is a good idea if I ever play again. The Redskins put me on injured reserve, but the end result is the same: I will never play football again."

Taken from this article:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/09/02/tucker/index.html

Perhaps not officially 'retired', but that looks pretty retired to me. He wasn't even good to begin with so I'm not sure why you'd have him as a starting lineman.

I didn't know about his injury situation and I really didn't expect him to be a starting lineman, anyway. I only chose him because he was the only signed player within the age category I was looking for. Note that I said an immediate upgrade at that position was needed through the draft, free agency, or trade. If you are going to rebuild, you have to start with a core of young players. In the current NFL, the older a player, the more you risk having an overpaid underachiever or someone who is injured year after year.

[BuryYourDuke]

I see what you're aiming for and I don't disagree at all. This team needs a face lift...period. We need to throw all of our young guys out there and see what we have. That way we'll know what else we need to build a champion after we uncover our diamonds in the rough.

Consequently, this will never happen, but I would actually be excited to see us try to build from scratch. We'd have to be willing to endure a couple down seasons, but it would be much more exciting to go 4-12 with a young team that might become something than it is to go 7-9 with an older team that has hit its ceiling.

If we KNEW Snyder would be patient, this is the type of approach I'd like to see our next (hopefully young) coach employ.

What you aren't grasping, is that it doesn't matter if Snyder is patient enough for a from scratch rebuild. We aren't. Everyone calling for it thinks it will be some easy 3 year process. Think of all the teams in the NFL who SUCK. The draft and the youth aren't some magic formula. It only works for a couple of teams every few years. What is more important though, is that Washington WILL NOT STAND FOR IT. Nobody here has the patience to watch no names suck it up for a couple of seasons. There will be nothing but threads saying "fire coach xxxx" and "we should cut or trade player xxxxx". It would be way worse than it is now. Whine and ***** about it all you want, but Snyder gives us what we want, a team that we at least THINK could be a winner this season if things go our way.

[Art McDonough]

What you aren't grasping, is that it doesn't matter if Snyder is patient enough for a from scratch rebuild. We aren't. Everyone calling for it thinks it will be some easy 3 year process. Think of all the teams in the NFL who SUCK. The draft and the youth aren't some magic formula. It only works for a couple of teams every few years. What is more important though, is that Washington WILL NOT STAND FOR IT. Nobody here has the patience to watch no names suck it up for a couple of seasons. There will be nothing but threads saying "fire coach xxxx" and "we should cut or trade player xxxxx". It would be way worse than it is now. Whine and ***** about it all you want, but Snyder gives us what we want, a team that we at least THINK could be a winner this season if things go our way.

You are probably right and we will continue our mediocre existance unless we stumble upon a good year. I just wish we had some kind of plan and that starts with a GM with a long view. Until then, we will go from year to year with a plan that looks like my grandmother's patchwork quilt.

[Dan T.]

Art, I think in today's salary-cap, free-agent NFL you can't build an entire team of homegrown young players and then keep them together for 8 to 10 years, or even 6 to 8 years, like you could in the pre-cap era.

By the same token, I think this team - from the beginning of the Snyder era until a year or two ago - has neglected the nuturing of young talent at the expense of a win now attitude.

But on today's Redskins team, at least on the defensive side of the ball, I see what I consider the right mix of young talent blended with veterans.

I think teams can work on having that balance of youth for the future along with veterans you want starting today, without sacrificing true competitiveness.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

What you aren't grasping, is that it doesn't matter if Snyder is patient enough for a from scratch rebuild. We aren't. Everyone calling for it thinks it will be some easy 3 year process. Think of all the teams in the NFL who SUCK. The draft and the youth aren't some magic formula. It only works for a couple of teams every few years. What is more important though, is that Washington WILL NOT STAND FOR IT. Nobody here has the patience to watch no names suck it up for a couple of seasons. There will be nothing but threads saying "fire coach xxxx" and "we should cut or trade player xxxxx". It would be way worse than it is now. Whine and ***** about it all you want, but Snyder gives us what we want, a team that we at least THINK could be a winner this season if things go our way.

I have grasped everything just fine thanks...nothing in this complex thread has gone over my head. :laugh:

What you don't understand is that I'd rather have a rebuilding team that MIGHT be great than an older team that we know is a wild card team at best. So even if after 3 or 4 years it didn't pan out, we would start again. That's what successful franchises do.

The key is this: When you build through the draft and with younger players and they don't pan out, you can replace them much easier than when you sign 8-10 "stars" for $30M.

[Art McDonough]

Art, I think in today's salary-cap, free-agent NFL you can't build an entire team of homegrown young players and then keep them together for 8 to 10 years, or even 6 to 8 years, like you could in the pre-cap era.

By the same token, I think this team - from the beginning of the Snyder era until a year or two ago - has neglected the nuturing of young talent at the expense of a win now attitude.

But on today's Redskins team, at least on the defensive side of the ball, I see what I consider the right mix of young talent blended with veterans.

I think teams can work on having that balance of youth for the future along with veterans you want starting today, without sacrificing true competitiveness.

After thinking this whole thing through, I agree with you 100%. It would be almost impossible to do what Dallas did in 1989 and sacrifice a few years for the team they had in the '90's. If you sign a quality player, you probably will sign him to a 5 year contract which is backloaded so you only have him for 4 years after which you either re-negotiate or release him. So a plan which mixes youth and experience is probably the way to go. When I looked at our projected starters for this season, that's what I saw. Still , we are not prime time and you can't blame it solely on injuries because we went OT with lowly Miami before injuries were an issue. I love the Skins and I hate this mess.