Vernon Fox > Doughty

[garrett]

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who remembers this?














































http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/1382/redskins31589936pgkf9.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)


http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/6637/redskins31590953pgtm6.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)


fox should be starting.

[RammsteinSkins]

i agree but Fox is more of a strong safety instead of a free safety

[we_want_56]

But Doughty may be more of a Linebacker (not size wise coveragewise)

[z0eboy]

i agree he should be starting, i think he has a hamstring injury or something :whoknows:

[chow184]

we don't see practice

Doughty really didnt do anything to lose the job last week

the secondary as a whole didnt play well.besides smoot.even then I dont know how much he played.

as much as I'm a fan of shawn springs,TO took him to school.

and on that one play springs left PP out to dry,PP could have gotten over the top of TO but the ball would have been a TD to wittin instead PP stayed on top of his assignment while springs blew his and PP whiffed on the tackle resulting in a TD.

[z0eboy]

a FS is your last line of defense unless hes blitzing, S Taylor has enough range to cover a lot of ground, if PP or R Dougerty cant cover a deep zone whats the point of them playing FS, they should play SS more in the box. V Fox has better range for FS :2cents:

[TheLongshot]

I guess everyone forgot about Fox getting run over by running backs in the last two games of last season.

With the exception of that one PI call, Doughty had a pretty solid game out there. Other things will come with experience. Also, let's be fair, the 'Boys have been dismantling better defenses than what we have. It shouldn't be a surprise that they found a hole and exploited it.

Jason

[SoCalSkins]

Ryan Clark > both those fools

[z0eboy]

I guess everyone forgot about Fox getting run over by running backs in the last two games of last season.

With the exception of that one PI call, Doughty had a pretty solid game out there. Other things will come with experience. Also, let's be fair, the 'Boys have been dismantling better defenses than what we have. It shouldn't be a surprise that they found a hole and exploited it.

Jasonexactly why V Fox should play FS and leave L Landry at SS.

[TheLongshot]

exactly why V Fox should play FS and leave L Landry at SS.

I don't know if you noticed, but Doughty was coming up to the line a lot when he was in. Also, normally, Prioleau is a better cover safety.

Jason

[z0eboy]

normally covers what? PP is recovering from a torn ACL when nobody touched him? dont you remember how he got hurt last year, maybe hes getting old :whoknows: V Fox is in his 5th year and has been a starter in this league, hes made plays on the ball and is better suited covering the FS deep middle in place of S Taylor allowing Landry to play in the box SS

[dahottestbubu]

V. Fox should replace "Mr. i ran 4.3 but can't cover shiat Landry", he was even worse than S.Springs.

[Redskins4ever]

Greg Williams said that Taylor will be the free safety and Landry would be the strong safety. He didn't say anything about no other safeties so Fox could be play either position.

[TheGift]

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/09kB8g975leNM/610x.jpg
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0gK200maCt9NU/610x.jpg


....

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/129/...a063fd8.jpg?v=0



Atlanta rookie running back Jerious Norwood broke into the open field on a handoff around the right side, and only Fox stood in front of him. Norwood, who is difficult to stop in the open field, juked left, and Fox fell onto his face mask. He lay on the field as Norwood scored on a 69-yard run



My point? Fox and Doughty and Prioleau are equally Mediocre and the FO needs to make better moves in the offseason in the event ST goes down again.

[blindside]

I can't believe the Turd's didn't attack the seam earlier in the game when they noticed Doughty was starting. I am sure Joey Galloway is licking his chops right about now :doh:

[cphil006]

normally covers what? PP is recovering from a torn ACL when nobody touched him? dont you remember how he got hurt last year, maybe hes getting old :whoknows: V Fox is in his 5th year and has been a starter in this league, hes made plays on the ball and is better suited covering the FS deep middle in place of S Taylor allowing Landry to play in the box SS

I agree, maybe Fox would be better suited... heck, sign Troy Vincent again...

[cphil006]

But Doughty may be more of a Linebacker (not size wise coveragewise)

with the ball-hawking skills of a defensive tackle...

[skinsno1]

I think Doughty will be fine.

[Backpack3r]

Are some people in this topic actually defending Doughty's play?

The dude played horrible, he is one of the reasons we lost

[TheLongshot]

Are some people in this topic actually defending Doughty's play?

The dude played horrible, he is one of the reasons we lost

One bad play doesn't mean he played horribly. That's really what everyone is focusing on, and not any other part of his game.

Hell, Springs made more bad plays than Doughty.

Jason

[Fergasun]

Why? Frankly I have more of a fault with the coaching. Given that 2 out of 3 of the safeties out there are young, and the other one has had some problems in the past tracking the ball, I would play whoever is the FS 30 yards off the line of scrimmage. Sure, you might open up the middle of the field, but it makes them less susceptible for getting beat on a pump-fake or play-action when the natural tendency is to bite. Also there is a bit more margin of error for which angle to take on a play and it forces the QB to throw it more accurately going over the safety.

[Xero21]

I really think Landry should be at FS with someone else at SS, probably Prioleau. Landry is really kind of similar to Sean Taylor (Landry played FS in college too). I think we should at least try it in a few defensive packages.

[Sharkdart]

The real problem with the secondary last week was the coverage. This zone we always play is killing the team. It can be done with a talent of ST but not Doughty. If you don't know already the Cowboys are pretty good. The defense will look a lot better this week.

[z0eboy]

zone is a scheme made for players that have range to attack the ball in the air, it gives your playmakers chances to break on a ball that is thrown in their zone area. Man coverage just means run with your guy and if its thrown to your guy make a play on the ball. a FS stands the deepest and if Reed D./PPriolou cant cover deep and make a play on the ball in zone whats the point of having them there for run support? thats a SS in the box role, they cant play man coverage at free saftey right? that would make them CB's. Vernon Vox isnt a SS hes not big enough but has enough speed/range to be in position for the deep play and if needed i have seen him come up and hit (similiar to Ryan Clark)

[Wyvern]

Let's remember that Doughty, Prioleau, etc. ...are backups, and Landry is a rookie. And since Springs was having an off-game, and Taylor wasn't there -- the weaknesses of these folks were bound to be exploited. In short, This shouldn't all be put on Doughty, because there were lots of whiffs by our secondary. (I don't recall anyone of our DBs being that great.) Except for Doughty's PI mistake, and needing to play tighter in, I think Doughty's performance was on a par with the rest -- with the exception that his tackling seemed better.

I didn't see enough evidence to determineif Doughty has insufficient speed, or whether he's fatally flawed in how well he tries to close. (I defer that to the coaches, who seem to think he has some talent to be Taylor's backup.) If those are problems, maybe the coaches can figure a way to scheme to Doughty's strengths (tackling, aggressiveness) for the Tampa game. ...Frankly, a decent pass-rush would help with the secondary's problems.

It's not clear to me what Vernon Fox brings -- he's a strong safety, and I'm not sure how well he'd fit at Free Safety. As for an upgrade at Free Safety, all I know Fox was DB from the Lions, where I don't recall Fox him being touted as a premier player. Maybe the coaches don't see him at Free Safety.

What really confuses me however,, is why everyone keeps harping on Doughty's PI mistake to the point they forget the decent plays he did make. After all, that kind of PI call happens a lot in the NFL, even with long-term veterans. And Owens is very experienced at drawing those kinds calls as well.

[Chump Bailey]

I guess everyone forgot about Fox getting run over by running backs in the last two games of last season.




That's how I see them. Fox is better in the cover aspect of things though I don't think it is all that significant. Doughty is much better at the POA and is at home playing physical ball. I have a hard time believing Fox would have been any better against TO or anyone else Sunday.

[PlayAction]

I guess a lot of fans see Reed as a good SS but somewhat less so as a free safety. Unfortunately we are short the starting free safety. Pearson came in to replace Reed and made the same mistakes so there's no reason to knock on Reed. Put Pearson and Springs up for criticism as well. Coaches saw things in the game that Doughty did well. We all know the play that he missed.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I guess everyone forgot about Fox getting run over by running backs in the last two games of last season.

Well good thing Earnest freaking Graham is starting for the Bucs.

[Backpack3r]

One bad play doesn't mean he played horribly. That's really what everyone is focusing on, and not any other part of his game.

Hell, Springs made more bad plays than Doughty.

Jason

One bad play, 16 NO PLAYS

And no good plays

Everyone is focusing on how bad he played, because he played bad. Stop defending him. This website hates on our excellent starters but defends our crappy backups?

[Backpack3r]

What really confuses me however,, is why everyone keeps harping on Doughty's PI mistake to the point they forget the decent plays he did make. After all, that kind of PI call happens a lot in the NFL, even with long-term veterans.

What decent plays? The plays where TO was wide open and had no safeties 10 yards near him?
And that PI penalty is talked about because it was one of the worst plays I have ever seen a football player make. He didnt even look at the ball, and decided to tackle Crayton before the ball even got there. I dont know any veterans who would do that

[TheLongshot]

One bad play, 16 NO PLAYS

And no good plays

Everyone is focusing on how bad he played, because he played bad. Stop defending him. This website hates on our excellent starters but defends our crappy backups?

Actually, he made a few good plays in run support. There were a few times he came up through traffic to stop Marion Barber or Julius Jones.

Some people need to actually pay attention to the game.

Jason

[Washington53fan]

Bring Back Omar Stoutmire!!!!! Better Than These Fools

[z0eboy]

Vernon Fox plays just like Ryan Clark, he aggresive at the Line but a bigger/talented RB can win the one on one battle most of the time. Atleast he shown to be athletic enough to go after balls in the air and make plays as a Free Safety. He has started next to S Taylor last season and had a great game against Carolina when he got his 1st INT as a redskin. I think with his 5 years NFL experience and 1.5 seasons with the skins he's a better fit at FS due to him having better range and cover skills than RD/PP :2cents:

[Backpack3r]

Actually, he made a few good plays in run support. There were a few times he came up through traffic to stop Marion Barber or Julius Jones.

Some people need to actually pay attention to the game.

Jason

Yeah he made some tackles, thats what they are paid to do. I didnt see any good or decent plays made by this guy Reed, stop defending the bad players and hating the good players

[onnie007]

Ryan Clark > both those fools


I disagree with that. Ryan Clark was a liability against tight ends.


But I do agree that Fox is better than Doughty.

[pvkeeper19]

I think Prioleau ought to start over either Fox or Doughty at this point.

[Truant]

It's like choosing whether you'd like to be slugged in the head or the gut.

PP has looked awful. It takes two years to come back from his injury and I think that he's a step too slow. Reed blew plenty of plays last week. He was benched at the end of the 3rd Quarter. He didn't just make one bad play. Check out the article on him in the breaking news section. It's actually meant to be flattering and encouraging, but it acknowledges that he struggled last week.

We know what PP will do, which isn't much. Reed should get better, but FS probably isn't his ultimate position. I think Fox should at least get a chance to see if he can cover some more ground out there and make some plays on the ball.


We are getting gashed through the air, not the ground. Fox isn't going to be looked to stop any RBs anytime soon, Fletch and company have been on-point in the Run D.

[phatboy41]

I really didn't see much to justify Doughty losing his job. When he was in he was more in the box then covering deep centerfield. I saw that it was more due to Shawn Springs (as much as I respect him) inability to cover TO. It looked like most of the game the safeties were in the box. And, to Doughty's credit, the man has heart and hits pretty solid. That was his first game against a defense that has passed all over everyone... the PI was bad on his part, but I'm sure he'll learn and be better suited to turn his head next time. I'm not trying to justify that he is the greatest FS or deserves it over Fox or anything, but I definately cannot see why people are writing him off already. If anyone was getting lit up on this board I'd think it would be Springs... just my two cents

[Skins-in-CT]

What really confuses me however,, is why everyone keeps harping on Doughty's PI mistake to the point they forget the decent plays he did make.

It's actually pretty clear. Negativity breeds better conversation. If everyone sat around and actually looked at something other than negative things then they would have nothing to complain about, and that is what most people seem to thrive on.

I am starting to think that if we won the Super Bowl, but Jason fumbled after getting hit on the blind side, people would ***** about it - even if he threw for 400 yards, 4 TD's and no interceptions and he could even run one in.

[BlackMagic21]

I agree when fox played last year he looked for the most part pretty good and mos def covered better than Doughty.

[phatboy41]

It's actually pretty clear. Negativity breeds better conversation. If everyone sat around and actually looked at something other than negative things then they would have nothing to complain about, and that is what most people seem to thrive on.

I am starting to think that if we won the Super Bowl, but Jason fumbled after getting hit on the blind side, people would ***** about it - even if he threw for 400 yards, 4 TD's and no interceptions and he could even run one in.

you're so very right, and I'm not being sarcastic at all. that is what we do, especially in this country, is complain.

[Wyvern]

I agree when fox played last year he looked for the most part pretty good and mos def covered better than Doughty.
Looking "good" is a bit subjective, especially when you consider caliber of our secondary's performance in 2006. Perhaps if Fox looked good in coverage, it was because our cornerbacks were the primary point of attack; made that could made a starting strong safety look a bit better. Then again, considering our LBs and our banged up D-line, our strong safety probably was committed to run support more than normal, so 2006 might not be the best conditions to assess how well Fox would performed in deep coverage. As for Doughty, my sense was he had a limited role in the 2006 season, especially since he was a 6th rounder and a rookie.

Consequently, I don't think the 2006 comparison is a valid one. Fox was the eventual starter at SS, and probably looked better mainly because Archuleta didn't look good. As for Doughty did special teams andthe spot calls for 'extra DB" duty. Fox made a bunch of his tackles no doubt because he was having to sweep up after Holdman and company. However, I noted that for all the time Fox was on the field, he only had one interception.

Regardless -- in 2007 Fox is listed as a SS, not a FS. Therefore I find it difficult to compare the two positions. I'm not going to debate who's faster, smarter, better, etc. -- because it's hard to judge if they don't play the same position.

[Backpack3r]

you're so very right, and I'm not being sarcastic at all. that is what we do, especially in this country, is complain.

But what did Reed do that has you so impressed seriously. He made a few tackles, which isnt hard to do considering he is in the NFL

[RDSKNfaithfull]

People who would stick up for him in this thread are the same people that tried to pump up Adam Archuleta halfway into last season:doh:

Anybody with any sense of judgment can see he is not athletic enough to play Free Saftey in this league. He is a good guy on special teams that is it. He is one of those underdogs that coaches like because he does everything they ask but when it comes down to it he has no buisness on the field come game day.

[Skins-in-CT]

But what did Reed do that has you so impressed seriously. He made a few tackles, which isnt hard to do considering he is in the NFL

Apparently it was difficult for the entire defense last year :whoknows:

[Skins-in-CT]

People who would stick up for him in this thread are the same people that tried to pump up Adam Archuleta halfway into last season:doh:

Anybody with any sense of judgment can see he is not athletic enough to play Free Saftey in this league. He is a good guy on special teams that is it. He is one of those underdogs that coaches like because he does everything they ask but when it comes down to it he has no buisness on the field come game day.

I did not support Archuleta last year and could not wait for him to go. But if you can see that from one game then I need you to make my picks for my pool for the rest of the year.

[thebootydr]

Vernon Fox plays just like Ryan Clark, he aggresive at the Line but a bigger/talented RB can win the one on one battle most of the time. Atleast he shown to be athletic enough to go after balls in the air and make plays as a Free Safety. He has started next to S Taylor last season and had a great game against Carolina when he got his 1st INT as a redskin. I think with his 5 years NFL experience and 1.5 seasons with the skins he's a better fit at FS due to him having better range and cover skills than RD/PP :2cents:

I tried to tell someone here this yesterday. They were oblivious of course.

[Slacky McSlackAss]

BRING BACK ARCHULETTA :paranoid:

[skinny21]

But what did Reed do that has you so impressed seriously. He made a few tackles, which isnt hard to do considering he is in the NFL

At least I didn't notice Doughty missing any tackles. I have been confused as to why he's playing FS, but then I remembered that to Gregg they're interchangeable.