Bill Belichick - Genius or Lucky?

[Romo the Great]

I am sure this subject has been beaten to death, and if that is the case than pardon me for bringing it up!

You know, as I was trying to make a point about Tom Brady** being a fraud, something hit me. I looks at the career of Bill Belichick*** through the beginning.

So I started looking at him during the years he was defensive coordinator with the New York Football Giants.

Some people have pointed out that Tom Brady** made Bill Belichick***, and now, I tend to agree with that.

Belichicks years as defensive coordinator of the Giants and head coach of the New England Patriots* have some striking similarities.

He obviously won 2 Superbowls with the Giants, one in 1986 and the other in 1990.

In all of his superbowl winning teams, he had a centerpeice, an icon, an NFL best.

I am sure you all know what I am talking about.

Tom Brady & Lawrence Taylor.

Lawrence Taylor is arguably the best defensive player to every step into a giants 100 yard ruler. Tom Brady on the other hand, might be the best QB every to play the game.

This is no coincidence folks.

Bill Belichick, when with the Cleveland Browns, had no one to bail him out. He failed miserably.

All evidence points to Bill Belichick being Lucky.

Lawrence Taylor and Tom Brady make Bill Belichick.


---

* Caught cheating
** Benefited from cheating

[cnhnyy]

Somehow i think it is all about luck. You can aruge about FA/drafts until you are blue. But pulling a Brady/Romo out of nowhere definitely help the most, by a mile. Please do not tell me pats/girls are so good at evaluating players. They just got lucky.

[DGreenistheBest]

I choose Satan. Can I choose Satan?

[pjfootballer]

Somehow i think it is all about luck. You can aruge about FA/drafts until you are blue. But pulling a Brady/Romo out of nowhere definitely help the most, by a mile. Please do not tell me pats/girls are so good at evaluating players. They just got lucky.

Agreed. Funny how some say the other 31 teams passed on Brady in the draft, yet the Patriots passed on him 5 times themselves. As far as Romo, well, the Rams found Kurt Warner in a grocery store, so I guess anything can happen. I just hope he fizzles out as fast as Warner did.

[kevinklein]

No one goes 12-0 without a little luck. No one goes 12-0 without being a bit of a genius.

[OWUeagleMD]

I don't think Brady is a fraud nor do I think Bellichek is lucky.

The Patriots acquired Tom Brady through quality talent evaluation, not luck. (Though luck plays a role in all talent evaluation).

[sableholic]

Agreed. Funny how some say the other 31 teams passed on Brady in the draft, yet the Patriots passed on him 5 times themselves. As far as Romo, well, the Rams found Kurt Warner in a grocery store, so I guess anything can happen. I just hope he fizzles out as fast as Warner did.

Isn't Warner from Arena football? And isn't he having a pretty good year?

[cnhnyy]

The Patriots acquired Tom Brady through quality talent evaluation, not luck. (Though luck plays a role in all talent evaluation).

They thought so highly of him that they passed him in the draft five times.

[bubba9497]

a Lucky Genius


:)

[Hero21]

I don't think Brady is a fraud nor do I think Bellichek is lucky.

The Patriots acquired Tom Brady through quality talent evaluation, not luck. (Though luck plays a role in all talent evaluation).

Their now dead QB coach simply though Tom would be a good match for their system. They kept on passing him up until finally they got to the 6th round, and they couldn't pass him up any longer. And if you watched the interviews, Brady talked about how rough it was for him to start. That Belichick didn't think highly of him at all, and the evaluators in training camp said everything about him was slow. Slow to release, slow to read, slow to move.

There is no way in hell they knew he would've turned out the way he did. Just like it happened with Warner and Romo. These things just kinda ... happen.

[HeHateMe]

Lucky, lucky, lucky.

Belichick sans Brady = no Super Bowls.

Period.

[OWUeagleMD]

They thought so highly of him that they passed him in the draft five times.

Teams always draft guys in the first round, even if they'll be available in the 6th, don't they?


This isn't even a conversation. Or at least, it isn't an intelligent conversation.

[OWUeagleMD]

There is no way in hell they knew he would've turned out the way he did. Just like it happened with Warner and Romo. These things just kinda ... happen.

Yes, they just kinda happen to teams with the quality talent evaluators to put them in a position to make it happen.

They should be commended for finding Brady in the 6th round, not questioned.

[Warhead36]

I always say luck is when preperation meets opportunity. Yeah getting Brady in the 6th round is lucky. But one man doesn't win Super Bowls. Bellicheck has done a great job designing schemes to maximize the talent he had.

Bill Walsh was lucky to get Joe Montana in the 3rd round. Chuck Knoll was lucky to win the coin toss that netted him Terry Bradshaw.

[skinfan2k]

Yesterday u mention Tom Brady is a system ****ing QB. Make up your mind

[OWUeagleMD]

I always say luck is when preperation meets opportunity.

I always liked "the more I practice, the luckier I get."

[Thetimeisnow]

Lucky to have Brady. Genius playcalling.

[OWUeagleMD]

The only teams in the history of football that warrant credit for talent acquisition are the teams who chose number one in the draft and did so successfully. Everyone else either chose another player before the one that contributed most to their success or lucked out because at least one team passed on the guy that contributed most to their success.

There is no such thing as talent, only luck.

Apparently.

[Fred Jones]

Lucky to get get the players that he got. Lucky to work for a FO that is pretty good at drafting talent and an owner not unwilling to spend money.

Plain lucky at having a HOF QB fall into his lap. Since day one I have been saying what HHH said, no Brady no SB's.

That said, it is hard to argue that Belichick does not one day deserve to be in the HOF.

I don't care how good a coach you are, no talent = bad team and he had a bad team in Cleveland.

[Fred Jones]

Edit: To add, I would bet that we would be 12-1 if Brady was our QB.

Sorry for the double post.

[Riggo-toni]

Can people please stop saying Belichik failed in Cleveland. :mad:
He took over a horrible team and by his 3rd year took them to 13-3 and a playoff victory. The following year Modell pulled the rug out from under him and the team by announcing they were moving to Baltimore and killing fan support and team morale.

NE under Parcells went nowhere until Belichik came in as DC; then they went to the SB. They might have even done well against GB if their best ST player (Troy Brown) hadn't been out injured.

Yeah, he got lucky with Tom Brady, but Brady was little more than a game manager when they won their first SB in '01. Lest anyone forget, Brady was hurt for the AFC championship game, and the Pats won it with Bledsoe. Belichik outcoached a far far more talented Rams team in the '01 SB. The Rams were the most heavily favored team I can remember since the Cowboys-Bills rematch. Combine his days as defensive coordinator and coach, and Belichik has been to 6 Superbowls with 4 different QBs, as well as a conference championship with a 5th.

Would he win a SB as HC w/o Brady? I seriously doubt it. But...would Gibbs have ever won a SB without the Hogs? No. So, yeah, he's lucky, but he's also a genius with a great eye for talent. Are any of you aware of the fact that he convinced the FO to carry 4 QBs on the roster in '00 because Brady was on the bubble?

[pjfootballer]

Isn't Warner from Arena football? And isn't he having a pretty good year?

He played in arena football and NFL Europe. I think the Iowa Barnstormers of the Arena League disbanned and he was working at a grocery store stocking shelves when the Rams called.

He's having a pretty decent year, but nothing like the 3 years he had in St. Louis when they won the SB and went to the SB.

[CallMeGreen]

Lucky to get get the players that he got. Lucky to work for a FO that is pretty good at drafting talent and an owner not unwilling to spend money.

Plain lucky at having a HOF QB fall into his lap. Since day one I have been saying what HHH said, no Brady no SB's.

That said, it is hard to argue that Belichick does not one day deserve to be in the HOF.

I don't care how good a coach you are, no talent = bad team and he had a bad team in Cleveland.
Who's HHH, Hubert H. Humphrey?

No, but seriously, Riggo-toni laid out the truth on Belichick. Had Modell not backed up the vans and told everyone they were moving, he might be the coach in Baltimore (still) instead of the other BB.

Luck or good fortune plays a big part in how teams win or lose games. Having limited injuries, playing in the pansy AFC Easy and having Brady pan out as a QB all take a bit of luck. Maybe the bigger luck was Drew Bledsoe getting hurt while he was in NE in the first place, so Brady got a chance to play.

I mean this topic of luckiness was sort of touched on in the ATN when comparing the '72 Dolphins against this years Pats (based on assumption they go 16-0). Were the Dolphins lucky to have Sonny Jurgensen step in a hole in the Giants stadium and rip his achilles heel? How 'bout when what would've been the tying touchdown (Kilmer to Jerry Smith) hits the friggin crossbar on the goal post, which up until then was located at the goal line? A little bit of good fortune I'd say.

But the way I look at it, Belichick being a head coach or main assistant involved in <so far> 5 Super Bowls has earned him his genius label.

[wysknz1]

A lot of luck. What would happen if Brady went down in a fluke accident. Even just getting his cleats stuck in the turf. I don't want it to happen, but on any play an injury can happen, and they haven't so luck does have something to do with it. But you gotta be great to d o what they've done lately no matter how you slice it.

[909997]

C.Cheater........................

[BAFGA]

Lucky....got Tom Brady in 6th round is lucky.... Remember, he stunk in Cleveland.

[ratbert_rizzo]

How can you honestly say Belichick is lucky? Sure they didn't expect Brady to be a Hall of Famer when they drafted him. Can you find one dynasty in the NFL where there was not at least a handful of Hall of Famers on it? I am pretty sure you can't do it so apparently every coach in NFL history to win a Super Bowl is lucky because at very least they had a very good group of players. Belichick has been through so many coordinators and players and yet the Patriots still keep winning. Injuries don't matter, holdouts don't matter they just win constantly.

Obviously great players with lousy coaching can win some games and great coaching with lousy players can win some games, but when you have great players and great coaching such as New England, then you can go for the Super Bowl.

Oh and I'm sure Belichick did not learn anything from his Cleveland experience. I'm also sure he did not improve as a coach in his 5 years between head coaching jobs. Apparently if you fail in your first head coaching experience and then succeed later in your career you are just lucky because experience counts for nothing in the NFL. NOT!

[Romo the Great]

Now that I had time to think about this argument, here I go:

I was a big exaggerating of course, but the label Bill Belichick has received in the NFL since the year 2000 was that he's a genius and that he's the best head coach in the NFL, can't do no wrong, etc.

Does a guy like Eric Mangini have the same success as Bill Belichick if he was the Patriots head coach? Obviously not, but woud he have better success than he is currently having? No doubt.

Bill Belichick is an excellent coach, but the consensus that he is the sole reason for the Patriots dynasty is total junk. If some things didn't go his way, he wouldn't be talked about the God that he is.

Drafting of Brady, which was pure luck.
Having guys like Veniteri (sp?).
Taking over Bill Parcells core players.

Belichick is like Ben Roethlisberger.

His surroundings are just perfect, and he succeeds.

Bill Belichick has the same success with if he was the coach of the Jets?

Bottom line, Bill Belichick is currently coaching a perfect team, sure he's part of this perfect team, but only part.

BILL BELICHICK IS GOOD. I'll call him great once he coaches scrubs to success.

Lot of coaches wish they were the coach of Pats.

[paloosa]

Brady never started at Michigan and wasn't even in the picture as a good QB coming out of College and Belechik wasn't even considered to be a greay head coach at that time either. So is it luck or is it really a desperate coacg using illegal means to get an edge for his QB and to make them the best of the best. I believe it is a little bit of both because you do not become a great QB or Head Coach in one season and win multiple Super Bowls when you couldn't do it in College or at a former NFL team. So IMO Brady and Belechik are cheating to win and they got away with it for so long before getting caught.

[Siven]

Belichek was lucky to not have been caught cheating earlier.

[JerseyGator]

Many coaches say they would rather bu lucky than good. But BB was smart enough to recognize a good owner in Kraft in NE, that's why he left the Jets at the altar when Parcells left the team. The Jets haven't done much for 35 years.

[rincewind]

Lucky, lucky, lucky.

Belichick sans Brady = no Super Bowls.

Period.



Walsh sans Montana = no Super Bowls

Knoll sans Bradshaw = no Super Bowls




Fact is he has the guy who best fits the system. Fact is he has 3 SB - something only 3 other coaches can say. If thats luck, I'm sure every other coach in NFL history wishes they were lucky instead of a 'genius'.

[Mooka]

Can people please stop saying Belichik failed in Cleveland. :mad:
He took over a horrible team and by his 3rd year took them to 13-3 and a playoff victory. The following year Modell pulled the rug out from under him and the team by announcing they were moving to Baltimore and killing fan support and team morale. It was his 4th year and they went 11-5, not 13-3. Overall, 4 losing seasons, 1 winning season with one playoff victory.

And Cleveland wasn't exactly a horrible team. They went 3-13 the year before Belichick took over, but they were a playoff team for like 5 straight years before that under Schotty.


agree with your other points.

[rincewind]

Lucky, lucky, lucky.

Belichick sans Brady = no Super Bowls.

Period.



Oh, and how could I have forgotten:


Jimmy Johnson san Troy Aikman = no Super Bowls


Period.





Yeah, Jimmy was a stud in Miami. :laugh:

[mcarey032]

I hate Bellichick as much as the next guy, but I will say that if you took Joe Montana off the 49ers they would be in the basement. If you took Bradshaw off the Steelers, they wouldn't be that good. Football is the ultimate team sport because if you look at how many people it takes to win, it takes more than just a superstar to win all the time. Look at what happened in Pittsburgh, if the Patriots didn't have Drew Bledsoe on the sidelines, a proven veteran quarterback, than we might not be talking about the Pats being a super bowl dynasty. Yes there is luck involved, but it is not just locale to the Patriots. All good teams are well prepared, talented and are able to find luck.

[Riggo-toni]

Lucky, lucky, lucky.

Belichick sans Brady = no Super Bowls.

Period.

Please. Belichik's defense won SBs w/ Phil Simms and Jeff Hostetler, won a conference title with Bledsoe, and was one game away from another SB w/ Testaverde.

Landry never won any SBs w/o Staubach. I guess he was just lucky lucky lucky. Jimmy Johnson got blown out of the playoffs without Aikman. Dang he was lucky. All them Cowboys coaches was nuthin' but real dang lucky.

[Laxpunk2006]

I think it's a mix of both. He was extremely lucky to be able to coach LT as a coordinator and stumbling upon Brady made his career what it is. Take away Brady and plug Bledsoe back in and the Pats are extremely mediocre. That being said it still takes a sort of genuis to come up with a way to use a player like LT. The same goes for building a team around Brady and tapping all of his talent. Belichick is a very gifted coach, but having HOF players makes anyone look good.

[The-Rock]

Belicheat could always put together and run a good defense. If he didn't have Tom Brady fall in his lap by accident however they wouldn't have 3 superbowl wins and be on their way to a 4th.

[mcarey032]

One of their lucky situations was the steelers championship game and also the Raiders tuck rule game. Talk about luck.