Bill would deny ‘anchor baby’ birth certificates

[Sarge]

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/105485

The architect of Arizona’s new employer sanctions law, which takes effect Tuesday, is crafting a series of new measures aimed at those who enter the country illegally.

Rep. Russell Pearce, R-Mesa, said he is introducing measures this session to:

-- expand the state crime of trespassing to cover anyone in this country without authorization.

-- require proof of legal presence in this country to register a vehicle or get a vehicle title.

-- deny workers’ compensation benefits to undocumented workers injured on the job.

-- bar local communities from having policies that prohibit police officers from checking the immigration status of those they encounter.

Pearce also has some “cleanup’’ language for the sanctions bill. He said the current wording might allow employers who pay workers cash “under the table’’ to escape the potential loss of license that applies under the new law to anyone else who knowingly hires an undocumented worker.

But the most controversial — and legally questionable — part of Pearce’s package would deny regular birth certificates to babies born in Arizona unless at least one parent proves citizenship.

That, he said, would deny automatic citizenship to the children. More to the point from Pearce’s perspective, it would deny them public benefits now reserved for legal U.S. residents.

Pearce acknowledged courts have ruled the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution — the one that freed the slaves — guarantees citizenship to anyone born in this country.

But he said extending that to those born of parents not here legally is based on a misreading of the amendment. He notes that the amendment says citizenship requires not just birth in the U.S. but also that the person is “subject to the jurisdiction’’ of this country, something he said does not apply to those here illegally.

But Rep. Kyrsten Sinema, D-Phoenix, said it is Pearce misreading the Constitution.

She said all visitors, legal or otherwise, are subject to U.S. jurisdiction, just as a foreigner who commits a crime here can be prosecuted in Arizona courts.

The package, coupled with the sanctions bill and those prior voter-approved measures, is designed to make Arizona less hospitable for those not here legally and pressure them to leave. There is at least anecdotal evidence that the sanctions law already is doing that: Some Mexican nationals who normally return home to visit family at Christmas have indicated they may not return.

“It’s a matter of cutting off the free stuff, stopping the benefits,’’ Pearce said

“I mean to make it unfriendly for those who break laws,’’ he continued, comparing the measures to legislative efforts to stop drunken driving by imposing stiffer penalties. “What do you have to do to raise the bar so much that they stop?’’

He said taxpayers are burdened with the cost of “anchor babies’’ born to those in this country illegally.

The Pew Center for Hispanic Studies estimated in 2006 that about one out of every seven students in Arizona public schools are here because of illegal immigration. While as many as 60,000 are themselves here illegally, another 90,000 are children of illegal immigrants who, by virtue of their birth in this country, are considered citizens.

While federal law requires states to educate all children regardless of immigration status, most other programs can be reserved for legal residents, ranging from free health care for those who meet income restrictions to subsidized tuition at state universities.

Pearce said if those not here legally leave because of the other measures, they will take their children, reducing the state’s nearly $5 billion annual cost for education.

“A better name for for these ‘anchor babies’ is probably ‘jackpot babies,’” Pearce said.

[SUSkinsFan]

I don't object to cutting off services to illegal immigrants, my only concern is that people that may be of hispanic descent that are here legally MAY (not saying its going to happen) have undue burdens placed on them by these laws.

[SnyderShrugged]

I don't object to cutting off services to illegal immigrants, my only concern is that people that may be of hispanic descent that are here legally MAY (not saying its going to happen) have undue burdens placed on them by these laws.



not to stir the pot, but I dont understand how this could impact the children of those who are here legally?

[SnyderShrugged]

Sarge, what is your stance on this? I noticed that you posted without commentary.

[SUSkinsFan]

not to stir the pot, but I dont understand how this could impact the children of those who are here legally?

the bill covers more then JUST the issue of children born here of illegal aliens. it said that people would need to prove proof of citizenship to register a car and my concern is that everyone of hispanic descent will suddenly need to bring a birth certificate, passport etc to the MVA. Something that I would not have to do because I am caucasian.

Plus such a requirement would make the MVA even worse then it already is.

[SnyderShrugged]

the bill covers more then JUST the issue of children born here of illegal aliens. it said that people would need to prove proof of citizenship to register a car and my concern is that everyone of hispanic descent will suddenly need to bring a birth certificate, passport etc to the MVA. Something that I would not have to do because I am caucasian.

Plus such a requirement would make the MVA even worse then it already is.



I'm not sure I've ever been able to get documentation at the MV without my social security card or Birth certificate. Why would this not be the requirement for everyone regardless of race?

[SUSkinsFan]

I'm not sure I've ever been able to get documentation at the MV without my social security card or Birth certificate. Why would this not be the requirement for everyone regardless of race?

Obviously there is something in AZ law that makes it easy for illegal immigrants to register their cars...

[Sarge]

Sarge, what is your stance on this? I noticed that you posted without commentary.

I'm all for amending the 14th Amendment. We're the only country in the world that still does this

[SnyderShrugged]

I'm all for amending the 14th Amendment. We're the only country in the world that still does this



cool, sounds like you have at least one thing in common with your most hated candidate then.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

WOW. Sounds like a very intersting and WONDERFUL piece of legislation. We just need to get some people in the FEDERAL LEGISLATURE who would be willing to propose and support legislation like this.

[Larry]

not to stir the pot, but I dont understand how this could impact the children of those who are here legally?

By requiring all people who look Hispanic to prove that they aren't committing a crime?

[Larry]

WOW. Sounds like a very intersting and WONDERFUL piece of legislation. We just need to get some people in the FEDERAL LEGISLATURE who would be willing to propose and support legislation like this.

Based, no doubt, on the Feds' Constitutional mandate to regulate birth certificates?

[ATV]

Illegal immigrants take all our good jobs (like poop shoveling). When you're not looking they're somehow able to run away with our hard earned tax money even though they don't even have social security numbers. They also like to eat babies.

Edit - If you believe this you probably also believed Iraq had mobile weapons labs that rolled around on Iraq's invisible rail lines. You also probably prefer to watch Fox News.

[squatch66]

say that to the folks that have to pay higher taxes because of the 9 billion dollar hospital bills that illegals rack up.

[Teller]

Illegal immigrants take all our good jobs (like poop shoveling). When you're not looking they're somehow able to run away with our hard earned tax money even though they don't even have social security numbers. They also like to eat babies.

Edit - If you believe this you probably also believed Iraq had mobile weapons labs that rolled around on Iraq's invisible rail lines. You also probably prefer to watch Fox News.

They absolutely DO get free public education for their children, which my tax dollars pay for. They absolutely DO get emergency room care, and if their bill isn't paid, it's passed on to me in higher costs. They absolutely ARE more likely to drive drunk. They absolutely DO increase our crime rate, leading to the hiring of more police officers, again, with my tax dollars. They absolutely DO drive wages down on "good" jobs like new home construction, directly taking said jobs from Americans. And they absolutely DO drive wages down in other areas as well. Areas that Americans would be willing to work in, without illegals lowering the wage for doing so. And they absolutely DO often work for money "under the table," deliberately skirting the taxes that would help pay for the benefits that they receive.

The ILLEGAL immigration supporters can cry me a friggin' river.

I can't wait for Virginia's study on the true cost/benefit ratio of illegal immigration on their state. I'm fully prepared for the supporters of criminals to try to explain away the results WHEN it ends up showing illegals' contribution is a net negative, but at least I'll be secure in the knowledge that they won't be able to point to a more exhaustive study supporting their own claims.

[SUSkinsFan]

They absolutely DO get free public education for their children, which my tax dollars pay for. They absolutely DO get emergency room care, and if their bill isn't paid, it's passed on to me in higher costs. They absolutely ARE more likely to drive drunk. They absolutely DO increase our crime rate, leading to the hiring of more police officers, again, with my tax dollars. They absolutely DO drive wages down on "good" jobs like new home construction, directly taking said jobs from Americans. And they absolutely DO drive wages down in other areas as well. Areas that Americans would be willing to work in, without illegals lowering the wage for doing so. And they absolutely DO often work for money "under the table," deliberately skirting the taxes that would help pay for the benefits that they receive.

The ILLEGAL immigration supporters can cry me a friggin' river.

I can't wait for Virginia's study on the true cost/benefit ratio of illegal immigration on their state. I'm fully prepared for the supporters of criminals to try to explain away the results WHEN it ends up showing illegals' contribution is a net negative, but at least I'll be secure in the knowledge that they won't be able to point to a more exhaustive study supporting their own claims.

I think you need to stop sweetening your coffee with cocaine H_H, you're a little excited...

[Mass_SkinsFan]

Based, no doubt, on the Feds' Constitutional mandate to regulate birth certificates?

Based on the Constitutional mandate to secure this country from foreign enemies, Larry.

[DjTj]

The ILLEGAL immigration supporters can cry me a friggin' river.I'm not sure there are really illegal immigration supporters.

It's kind of like global warming "supporters." It's not that they want global warming, it's that they don't believe it's as big a problem as everyone else makes it out to be.

I can't wait for Virginia's study on the true cost/benefit ratio of illegal immigration on their state. I'm fully prepared for the supporters of criminals to try to explain away the results WHEN it ends up showing illegals' contribution is a net negative, but at least I'll be secure in the knowledge that they won't be able to point to a more exhaustive study supporting their own claims.In an earlier thread, I came across this study done by the Texas Comptroller, which found that illegals cost the state $1.2 billion in services (mostly the $967 million for education), but that they paid sales and property taxes totaling about $1.6 billion, so it was a net gain for the state.

http://www.window.state.tx.us/specialrpt/undocumented/

[twa]

I'm not sure there are really illegal immigration supporters.

It's kind of like global warming "supporters." It's not that they want global warming, it's that they don't believe it's as big a problem as everyone else makes it out to be.
In an earlier thread, I came across this study done by the Texas Comptroller, which found that illegals cost the state $1.2 billion in services (mostly the $967 million for education), but that they paid sales and property taxes totaling about $1.6 billion, so it was a net gain for the state.

http://www.window.state.tx.us/specialrpt/undocumented/

It all depends on what you account for.

http://www.window.state.tx.us/specialrpt/undocumented/4health.html#note31
care provided by Texas hospitals produces a statewide estimate of uncompensated healthcare costs attributable to undocumented immigrants of $1.3 billion.

That's just one year,we can also add other costs not included in the States tab if you wish. :rolleyes:

So the State gets a profit while we pay ?

Not to worry though,we will share enough illegals so it becomes your problem too...if it continues to be ignored. :laugh:

Added

You left out THIS in your link

However, local governments bore the burden of $1.44 billion in uncompensated health care costs and local law enforcement costs not paid for by the state.

[twa]

As far as the anchor baby issue I am undecided,what I am convinced of is the need for secure borders and streamlined deportation of undocumented aliens that commit criminal offenses.

We do not need new laws as much as we need to simply enforce the ones we have.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

As far as the anchor baby issue I am undecided,what I am convinced of is the need for secure borders and streamlined deportation of undocumented aliens that commit criminal offenses.

We do not need new laws as much as we need to simply enforce the ones we have.


You're right that we need to enforce the laws that we have, but we also need to make sure they are VERY clear and concise in pointing out that Non-Citizens who are not here legally should not get the benefits of American society. No driver's licenses. No medical care. No education. etc..... Nothing other than a quick one way trip back to the closest deportation point.

[DjTj]

It all depends on what you account for.Well, I also left out the net positive $17.7 billion for the Texas economy estimated in the report.

You're right that the report states that While state revenues exceed state expenditures for undocumented immigrants, local governments and hospitals experience the opposite, with the estimated difference being $928.9 million for 2005.

I'm not really sure what we do with these numbers though ... for Texas, I suppose it implies that the state government should be giving more money to the local governments, and perhaps they should find a way to more effectively tax the contributions that illegals make to the economy. Or, if they can find a way to dramatically reduce the number of illegals in Texas for less than $500 million/year, it might be worth it to pursue that goal.

[Fergasun]

Do these study include the cost effect of my car and health insurance? How about the cost of crime committed by illegal immigrants not to mention the cost of incarcerating them... there are a ton of hidden costs... how about the estimated cost of lost wages?

If these studies are true than eff the American citizen, it's way more profitable just to make everyone an illegal alien... what a farce... just ridiculous....

[DjTj]

Do these study include the cost effect of my car and health insurance? How about the cost of crime committed by illegal immigrants not to mention the cost of incarcerating them... there are a ton of hidden costs... how about the estimated cost of lost wages?Unless the insurance companies start publishing reports stating exactly how much they have increased their rates because of illegal immigration, it would be hard to get those numbers. Texas did include the costs of incarceration and law enforcement.


If these studies are true than eff the American citizen, it's way more profitable just to make everyone an illegal alien... what a farce... just ridiculous....That's actually not ridiculous at all. Of course it's more profitable to hire illegal aliens; otherwise employers wouldn't be breaking the law to do so. The only reason we have an illegal immigration problem is because employers can make a profit by hiring them.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

That's actually not ridiculous at all. Of course it's more profitable to hire illegal aliens; otherwise employers wouldn't be breaking the law to do so. The only reason we have an illegal immigration problem is because employers can make a profit by hiring them.

That's why I think there needs to be a Zero Tollerance Policy for companies that hire even a SINGLE illegal immigrant....

They should lose their business, their business license, any and/or all patents, trademarks, etc... that their company held, and not be allowed to EVER get another business license or be involved in the ownership or management of another business ANYWHERE in the United States.

[Midnight Judges]

Do these study include the cost effect of my car and health insurance? How about the cost of crime committed by illegal immigrants not to mention the cost of incarcerating them... there are a ton of hidden costs... how about the estimated cost of lost wages?

If these studies are true than eff the American citizen, it's way more profitable just to make everyone an illegal alien... what a farce... just ridiculous....

Of course you could offset much of that with the benefit of cheap labor, the benefit of being able to hire cheap labor and increase profit margins, etc.

[DjTj]

That's why I think there needs to be a Zero Tollerance Policy for companies that hire even a SINGLE illegal immigrant....

They should lose their business, their business license, any and/or all patents, trademarks, etc... that their company held, and not be allowed to EVER get another business license or be involved in the ownership or management of another business ANYWHERE in the United States.The punishments are pretty harsh as it is, but the question is where the enforcement starts.

Would you enforce your zero tolerance policy against an employer that was fooled by a fake or stolen Social Security card? The most common defense for employers is "I didn't know he was illegal."

[Mass_SkinsFan]

The punishments are pretty harsh as it is, but the question is where the enforcement starts.

Would you enforce your zero tolerance policy against an employer that was fooled by a fake or stolen Social Security card? The most common defense for employers is "I didn't know he was illegal."

So far as I'm concerned the current penalties are nowhere near punitive enough.

I would enfore the zero tolerance policy on ANY employer found with an illegal alien working for them. So far as I'm concerned it's really not all that tough to determine this. Yes it would be a little costly for smaller companies, but there are services out there that do background checks fairly quickly (within a week). Those applicants who cannot provide a birth certificate AND a SS card (or who the employer still has questions about) should have to undergo a background check before they're hired.

So far as I'm concerned it's the employer's JOB to know whether their employees are legal or not.

[twa]

Well, I also left out the net positive $17.7 billion for the Texas economy estimated in the report.

You're right that the report states that While state revenues exceed state expenditures for undocumented immigrants, local governments and hospitals experience the opposite, with the estimated difference being $928.9 million for 2005.

I'm not really sure what we do with these numbers though ... for Texas, I suppose it implies that the state government should be giving more money to the local governments, and perhaps they should find a way to more effectively tax the contributions that illegals make to the economy. Or, if they can find a way to dramatically reduce the number of illegals in Texas for less than $500 million/year, it might be worth it to pursue that goal.

The report leaves out many costs since it's focus is simply the cost to the state government itself.

Like most studies it probably assumes 55% are paying taxes,assumes we even know how large the illegal population is,leaves out local and federal costs.ect.

Added

http://www.lonestarfoundation.org/The%20Cost%20of%20Illegal%20Immigration%20to%20Tex as%20-%20Exec%20Summary.doc
the cost of illegal immigration comes out to $739 for each household of native-born in Texans – a cost almost as large the $890 median school property tax that Texans so vehemently protest. As another way of looking at it, each illegal immigrant costs the state almost $2,333 a year.

[Larry]

As far as the anchor baby issue I am undecided,what I am convinced of is the need for secure borders and streamlined deportation of undocumented aliens that commit criminal offenses.

We do not need new laws as much as we need to simply enforce the ones we have.

Actually, I've read that the "anchor baby" thing doesn't work the way a lot of Americans think it does.

Supposedly, "anchor baby" means "your kid is a citizen. And he's allowed to move to the US. When he turns 18."

[isle-hawg]

I'm all for amending the 14th Amendment. We're the only country in the world that still does this

I think that is what needs to happen (which I am for BTW). As is I do not see this bill getting through the courts before hand.

Neither party really gives a damn about our porus border though (for differnet reasons), so I just expect more of status quo.