So who is responsible for the fumbles today?

[desioreo87]

Before we start this discussion let us acknowledge that TC had a good game and made some nice throws. I guess he should be leading our team in the playoffs, although IMO it should be JC if healthy but that is not the issue here.

Well as we know TC had two fumbles today and lost both of them, hmmm sound familiar?

So my question is who is responsible for the fumbles, is it TC for not holding onto the ball or is it the O-Line? I think you guys all know the point of this thread.

Also on a lesser note, TC threw a bad interception that was brought back for a justified PI, and no the reciever would not have made that catch.

All I am saying is that if the O-line doesn't block the blind side the QB has no chance no matter who he is and the ball will most likely end up on the turf. Most of JCs fumbles came from these type of plays. So can we stop calling him a turnover machine and just acknowledge that the O-line is playing better.

O and in 4 games TC has fumbled 5 times, wow pretty amazing because i thought there was a difference between him and JC maybe its just the OL...nah couldn't be that huh?

This is more a JC defense thread then a TC bashing thread cause i really like what he is doing and the way the offense looks. Heres to more good football in the playoffs. **** SEATTLE!!

[terpskins10]

Hahahah I love this but good luck with this one. The TC bandwagon is growing as we speak. I love what he's doing too, but absolutely no one will want to hear anything negative about him.

[909997]

i never blamed campbell for the fumbles

ironically most skin fans did

[desioreo87]

Hahahah I love this but good luck with this one. The TC bandwagon is growing as we speak. I love what he's doing too, but absolutely no one will want to hear anything negative about him.

This is not a TC bashing thread. Collins is playing very well adn the offense looks like the way it is supposed to look even though i still hate the redzone offense. That hasn't improved a bit. Heres to Collins playing well in the palyoffs.

BUt yea people answer the question.

[GSF]

Before we start this discussion let us acknowledge that TC had a good game and made some nice throws. I guess he should be leading our team in the playoffs, although IMO it should be JC if healthy but that is not the issue here.


Holy **** are you on crack!!?? Collins is playing out of his mind. :doh:

[ashsra]

You're definitely right about the fumbles, any QB who gets blindsided is going to fumble. I just want us to stop all this Collins vs. Campbell stuff, JC doesn't deserve all the bashing he's gotten on this board. Let's just enjoy this run and see where it goes, there's no guarantee Collins will want to come back next year if someone else is willing to give him starter money anyway.

[desioreo87]

Holy **** are you on crack!!?? Collins is playing out of his mind. :doh:

No that is just my opinion. Live with it. This is not a JC HAS TO START thread this is a 'who is responsible for the fumbles today' thread. TC looks very good and is playing very well and will probably lead the team well in teh playoffs, but that would not be my decision, it doesn't matter.

People just answer the damn question.

[SkinsWizCubsDukes]

Wait...Todd Collins fumbles are blaimed on the line...but then we agree that the line is playing better?

TC gets the ball out quicker and more accurately. That's all there is to it.

Collins has ZERO INTs and is playing out of his mind. By the way, there's no way that ball would have been picked off and Randle El (the receiver you mentioned...) would have at least broken up the play if not caught the ball.

[desioreo87]

Wait...Todd Collins fumbles are blaimed on the line...but then we agree that the line is playing better?

TC gets the ball out quicker and more accurately. That's all there is to it.

Collins has ZERO INTs and is playing out of his mind. By the way, there's no way that ball would have been picked off and Randle El (the receiver you mentioned...) would have at least broken up the play if not caught the ball.

They are playing better in terms of preventing consistent pressure from the D like JC had to face. The two times they got through on Collins they made him fumble. So are the fumbles on the OL or on TC and JC? That is the question.

And like i said Collins has fumbled 5 times in 4 games. That is 1.25 per game. That isn't exactly a great stat.

However he his not throwing ints but apparantely we weight INTs as worse turnovers than Fumbles because TC has a lot of fumbles for 4 games but no one seems to care about that.

Again this is turning into a JC vs. TC thread. That is not the point people.

This is about the fumbles that these QBs are having and why JC should not be blamed for 80% of those fumbls.

[edgun88]

I guess he should be leading our team in the playoffs, although IMO it should be JC if healthy but that is not the issue here.


Ever hear the saying "If it 'aint broke, don't fix it"? (duh, of course you have :rolleyes: )

I think it certainly applies in this case.

Why in the world would you change up the offense when it is running like a well oiled machine?

That is crazy.

[terpskins10]

This is not a TC bashing thread. Collins is playing very well adn the offense looks like the way it is supposed to look even though i still hate the redzone offense. That hasn't improved a bit. Heres to Collins playing well in the palyoffs.

BUt yea people answer the question.

No dude, I agree with you completely. I'm definitely on the Campbell side of this debate but I'm just saying not many others will agree with you.

[desioreo87]

Ever hear the saying "If it 'aint broke, don't fix it"? (duh, of course you have :rolleyes: )

I think it certainly applies in this case.

Why in the world would you change up the offense when it is running like a well oiled machine?

That is crazy.

Dude stop focusing on the most unimportant point in the whole damn thread. That is not he issue as i stated. i just want to talk about the fumbles today and the last few games.

[Dingani]

Man are you on crack? Did you watch the game or read about it?

Todd Collins fumbled? I saw an all pro defensive end beat Samuels and knock the ball out of Collins hand as he was about to pass. A blindside swipe at the ball is not a fumble. Jason Campbell fumbles while running around in the backfield and takes off running because he can't find the open receivers that Todd Collins can.

You must either be blind or a Dallas Cowboy fan.

[GSF]

This might be the most retarded thread I've read on here.

[desioreo87]

Man are you on crack? Did you watch the game or read about it?

Todd Collins fumbled? I saw an all pro defensive end beat Samuels and knock the ball out of Collins hand as he was about to pass. A blindside swipe at the ball is not a fumble. Jason Campbell fumbles while running around in the backfield and takes off running because he can't find the open receivers that Todd Collins can.

You must either be blind or a Dallas Cowboy fan.

My god man. Could you possibly state anything more false on this message board. Jeez.

[SearchHorizon]

You must either be blind or a Dallas Cowboy fan.
LOL, the OP is just trying to prove a point ... there is nothing wrong with having a point of view.

[RocketCitySkins]

The fumbles that are caused when the quarterback is blindsided are the o-line's responsibiity. The fumbles that a quarterback makes when he takes off out the of pocket to try an extend the play and doesn't protect the football are the quarterback's responsibility. Simple as that. :rolleyes:

One of TC's fumbles in these four games was because he wasn't looking for the football and fumbled the snap.

Some of Jason's fumbles were on the o-line and the rest were his fault.

[Joe Gibbs II]

One thing that bugs me about collins is his poise in the pocket. Yes, its a good thing, but sometimes i think he feels a little too comfortable in the pocket. Sounds nitpicky, but how many times were you thinking, "ahh just get rid of it!", and he actually does. I am impressed with how he seems to get the ball out at the right time, but it does draw some concerns.

[SkinsWizCubsDukes]

INTs are completely the QBs fault. I'll give you that the fumbles are not all on JC. But I will state again, Collins gets the ball out quicker.

JC sits back there and when he sees the protection break down he still fumbles. Everytime he gets sacked I feel like he's about to fumble.

The good thing is, with time...JC will correct those problems.

[MythMan]

Samuels got beat bad on one fumble and on another sack Heyer looked real slow getting up from the previous play and sure enough the defender blew by him

[adamyesme1111]

Samuels, He got ran over once and I didnt see what happened the other time but it was from his blind side again.

[Dirk Diggler]

Well, right now the biggest difference between the 2 players is that with TC under center, this team has been punching it in the end zone. With JC, we were kicking FGs. That's no small difference either.

[SearchHorizon]

The fumbles that are caused when the quarterback is blindsided are the o-line's responsibiity..
Not if the QB holds the ball too long, even if he has been hit from the blind side.

[RocketCitySkins]

INTs are completely the QBs fault. I'll give you that the fumbles are not all on JC. But I will state again, Collins gets the ball out quicker.

Not always. It was either the first Giants or the Packers game when Moss tipped a pass that he would have caught had he been healthy and the ball was intercepted and run in for a touchdown.

The interception at the end of the Tampa game wasn't a bad pass but it looked like Barber was seeing something that JC was doing and had been waiting for that ball to be thrown the entire game.

Totally different situations.

[SearchHorizon]

Not always. It was either the first Giants or the Packers game when Moss tipped a pass that he would have caught had it he been healthy and the ball was intercepted and run in for a touchdown.

The interception at the end of the Tampa game wasn't a bad pass but it looked like Barber was seeing something that JC was doing and had been waiting for that ball to be thrown the entire game.

Totally different situations.
You are forgetting that the balls were not thrown accurately in those situations.

[edgun88]

Dude stop focusing on the most unimportant point in the whole damn thread. That is not he issue as i stated. i just want to talk about the fumbles today and the last few games.

haha If you don't want people talking about it then don't blatantly state it in the first two sentences of your post and then go "well that's not what I wanna talk about, but....."

If you didnt want to talk about it then you shouldn't have mentioned it at all. So it's your fault.

[Dingani]

My god man. Could you possibly state anything more false on this message board. Jeez.

what part was false. The part that Demarcus Ware made the pro bowl or the part that Ware blindsided Collins and knocked the ball out of his hands as he was attempting to pass? Which part was false?

[redskins55]

Before we start this discussion let us acknowledge that TC had a good game and made some nice throws. I guess he should be leading our team in the playoffs, although IMO it should be JC if healthy but that is not the issue here.

Well as we know TC had two fumbles today and lost both of them, hmmm sound familiar?

So my question is who is responsible for the fumbles, is it TC for not holding onto the ball or is it the O-Line? I think you guys all know the point of this thread.

Also on a lesser note, TC threw a bad interception that was brought back for a justified PI, and no the reciever would not have made that catch.

All I am saying is that if the O-line doesn't block the blind side the QB has no chance no matter who he is and the ball will most likely end up on the turf. Most of JCs fumbles came from these type of plays. So can we stop calling him a turnover machine and just acknowledge that the O-line is playing better.

O and in 4 games TC has fumbled 5 times, wow pretty amazing because i thought there was a difference between him and JC maybe its just the OL...nah couldn't be that huh?

This is more a JC defense thread then a TC bashing thread cause i really like what he is doing and the way the offense looks. Heres to more good football in the playoffs. **** SEATTLE!!

It's hard to hear the truth when deaf ears are listening. :laugh:
I agree with you 100% and its plain as day.... but you won't convince alot of the critics because we're winning. Typical fans associate winning soley with the play of the QB and its just not the case. But keep preaching brotha I'm listening..

[Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin]

Having a DE slap a ball out with his fingertips or leading the league in fumbles because you hold the ball low because you have a wind-up release is totally different than your All-Pro LT getting RUN OVER in an instant and getting blindsided just as you're about to pass.

And I don't blame him totally for the center exchanges as that OFTEN happens with backup QBs and the first string center.

Also, if you don't STEP UP in the pocket and deliver the ball quickly, you're more prone to your line "not blocking" in the same way the offensive line took heat for Brunell running backwards out of the pocket and into defensive linemen who had been pushed out of the play and found themselves fortunate enough to get a QB in their arms because the guy didn't want to use the pocket. Campbell isn't like that so much as he has a slow release and is waiting too long.

Oh and AGAIN, I will repeat what Ed Werder said today before the game when asking about Campbell and Collins:

"Jason is my guy, he's my friend but Todd is OUR QUARTERBACK."

Get it through your heads, Campbell-boosters. This is Todd's team right now.

[Nafniksder]

Samuels said in the Washington Post that the two fumbles by Collins were on the tackles. He said the fumbles were due to him and Heyer getting beat. Hopefully the Redskins can get it corrected and make a long run. HTTR

[BleedBNG]

O and in 4 games TC has fumbled 5 times, wow pretty amazing because i thought there was a difference between him and JC maybe its just the OL...nah couldn't be that huh?
:laugh: Nice try, but I said after the Chicago game that TC can look goofy with fumbles if pressured with some pass rushes. He has NO peripherals to it, like the uncanny way Tom Brady has. BUT, there is one thing he does do when those situations happen... he's still focusing on that open receiver, which happens to pay off big in later situations... or when we need it. An example would be from the BOGUS (booth review :rolleyes: ) reverse call (give it up Piera) on Moss where we would usually stall after that and not get a first down on the next pass play. But instead, he rifles one in for the first down anyways as if he was :finger: back to the booth review crew.

[Veretax]

Given that we had similar problems when JC was in there, I'm going to say that a little exercise of Occam's Razor will say, given that the only thing different is the QB, and the OLINE is basically what it was with JC Under center, it has to be the O-Line.