What do our ATN Giants fans think of Fassel?(merged)

[zoony]

Just curious.


...

[NY1]

I put it in another thread, but I liked Fassel a lot as the Giants HC. He never had the talent that Coughlin has to work with during his tenure, so his accomplishments really stand out. The guy won a division title with DANNY FREAKIN' KANELL!

The team didn't have enough talent to consistently be good, so if they had any injuries, they were finished. The Skins could do way worse than Fassel.

[KiwiSupaFlyNuka]

Good article -


George Michael: Jim Fassel to be named Redskins head coach (http://mvn.com/nfl-redskins/2008/01/22/george-michael-jim-fassel-will-be-named-redskins-head-coach/)

By Anthony Brown | January 22nd, 2008


E-mail (http://mvn.com/nfl-redskins/2008/01/22/george-michael-jim-fassel-will-be-named-redskins-head-coach/emailpopup/) | Print (http://mvn.com/nfl-redskins/2008/01/22/george-michael-jim-fassel-will-be-named-redskins-head-coach/print/) | Share (http://www.addthis.com/bookmark.php?pub=brosage&url=http://mvn.com/nfl-redskins/2008/01/22/george-michael-jim-fassel-will-be-named-redskins-head-coach/&title=George Michael: Jim Fassel to be named Redskins head coach)




Long time Washington, DC sportscaster George Michael expects Daniel Snyder to name Jim Fassel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Fassel)as the next head coach of the Washington Redskins. According to Michael, the Redskins were close to naming Fassel four years ago before Snyder “made one last call to Joe Gibbs.”

Michael made his comment this afternoon on the John Riggins radio show on the Triple X radio network. Triple X is a property of Daniel Snyder’s Red Zebra business enterprise.

George Michael is known in the DC area for his insider knowledge of Redskin goings on. He is the former sports anchor at WRC-TV in Washington, DC, and is the host of the George Michael Sports Machine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_George_Michael_Sports_Machine). He is the moderator of the Redskin Reportappearing on WRC during the season with regular guests Sonny Jurgensen, John Riggins and Washington Postsports columnist Michael Wilbon.

Fassel was the New York Giants head coach from 1997 through 2003. He has a 58-53-1 won-loss record and led the Giants to three playoff appearances. The Giants lost Super Bowl 35 to the Baltimore Ravens following the 2000 season.

Fan Reaction

Not the decision I hoped for. Not the decision Daniel Snyder led us to believe when he cited “continuity” and “right track” as important factors in moving the Redskins forward. Nothing about a Fassel appointment, if it happens, suggests continuing along the current track.

If Fassel stays, it raises the odds that Al Saunders will be released and that quarterback Jason Campbell will be subjected to changes in offensive direction, in the same manner that worked to Patrick Ramsey’s detriment.

Change happens all the time in football. Every player learns to deal with it. But success calls for execution as much as scheme and it takes time — a season of more — for the two to work in tandem.

If Fassel is named, Gregg Williams is certain to leave for a head coach assignment elsewhere. The impact will cascade through the defensive coaching staff.

All of the assistant coaches are under contract. But, when new head coaches are named, the assistants are typically released from their contracts, then teams pick and choose whom they wish to retain.

Such turmoil will lead to an 8-8 record in a transition year — if Fassel is the guy.

Daniel Snyder’s idea ”right track” apparently extends only to his long-time deputy Vinnie Cerrato, who was named Executive Vice President - Football Operations (http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=34047) with “responsibility for all aspects of the team’s football organization, including personnel, the team roster, scouting and salary cap management.”

In the announcement of the appointment, Daniel Snyder is quoted as saying:


“The appointment formalizes the structure the team has operated under in recent years, and is recognition of the valuable role Vinny has played this season, especially during a time of terrible tragedy.

“During the past season we were hit with an unprecedented number of injuries, and Vinny consistently identified players who stepped in and stepped up to help take us to the playoffs.”

Frankly, I am underwhelmed and expect that neither move will find favor with Redskin fans. If Fassel is named, can Brian Billick be far behind as offensive coordinator?

[Heidenreich]

I was telling people today that I have to move because the Giants are in the SUper Bowl.

IF the Skins make Fassel the new head coach I'm really going to have to move......

[bubba9497]

The same as Skin fans :puke:

[Tom [Giants fan]]

I think Fassel benefitted from having good coordinators. His claim to fame was putting his chips on the table and taking the Giants to the Super Bowl. I'm not sure how he would do in Washington, especially if Williams and Bugel left.

[KiwiSupaFlyNuka]

I put it in another thread, but I liked Fassel a lot as the Giants HC. He never had the talent that Coughlin has to work with during his tenure, so his accomplishments really stand out. The guy won a division title with DANNY FREAKIN' KANELL!

The team didn't have enough talent to consistently be good, so if they had any injuries, they were finished. The Skins could do way worse than Fassel.

I couldn't disagree anymore. Fassell was pedestrian at best.

I use to credit him with being extremely creative with Shockey until I realized it was really Sean Peyton.

[Inquisitor]

Honestly, I don't think Fassel is nearly as bad as many Redskins fans make him out to be. Although, I'd personally not want him to be a part of my team in any facet. During his seven years with the Giants he brought us three playoff berths, one of which ultimately led to a Super Bowl appearence. But in that span the team was so ridiculously inconsistent year to year you just did not know what to expect from them.

Occasionally they'd pull off the improbabe win during the season, only to be totally humiliated the very next week by a clearly inferior team. It was really frustrating to follow those teams, don't even get me started on the lack of discipline. They were always among the most highly penalized teams in the league. They always seemed to be among the most injury riddled teams in the league as well. A lot was made of the culture of injuries before Coughlin took over the team, a lot was initially changed when he first took over, the weight rooms were fitted with free weights, all the machines and TV's removed. Practice was intensified. But that didn't really change anything the first 3 years. So who knows how much of that was luck, how much of that was personnel/equipment/practice.

He is a good man however. Very classy. He got along well with his players, although many would later claim it was the inmates running the asylum. He did eventually lose the locker room his final year. If he's given good assistant coaches, especially defensive coaches, he's smart enough to get out of thier way, as an offensive mind, I'd say he was a bit overrated. During his time with the Giants we never had a season where our offensive line wasn't a HUGE concern.

Even during our Super Bowl run, the line was filled with past their prime has beens, which was somehow kept together with smoke and mirrors by the legend Jim McNally.

And those are the first things that come to the top of my head. Basically he's no Ray Handley, and for that you should be glad.

[DWinzit]

He is a good man however. Very classy. He got along well with his players, although many would later claim it was the inmates running the asylum. He did eventually lose the locker room his final year.This and his whining on the sideline are what I remember most of Fassels Giant days. This is not what I am looking for in a HC.

Basically he's no Ray Handley, and for that you should be glad.My favorite coach of ALL time!:D

[HeHateMe]

He's much like Coughlin.

Peak at reaching the Super Bowl, then all downhill from there.

[Inquisitor]

He's much like Coughlin.

Peak at reaching the Super Bowl, then all downhill from there.

It could be worse, he could be Wade Philips. :laugh:

[zoony]

It could be worse, he could be Wade Philips. :laugh:


ZING! :laugh: :laugh:

[NY1]

Honestly, I don't think Fassel is nearly as bad as many Redskins fans make him out to be. Although, I'd personally not want him to be a part of my team in any facet. During his seven years with the Giants he brought us three playoff berths, one of which ultimately led to a Super Bowl appearence. But in that span the team was so ridiculously inconsistent year to year you just did not know what to expect from them.

Occasionally they'd pull off the improbabe win during the season, only to be totally humiliated the very next week by a clearly inferior team. It was really frustrating to follow those teams, don't even get me started on the lack of discipline. They were always among the most highly penalized teams in the league. They always seemed to be among the most injury riddled teams in the league as well. A lot was made of the culture of injuries before Coughlin took over the team, a lot was initially changed when he first took over, the weight rooms were fitted with free weights, all the machines and TV's removed. Practice was intensified. But that didn't really change anything the first 3 years. So who knows how much of that was luck, how much of that was personnel/equipment/practice.

He is a good man however. Very classy. He got along well with his players, although many would later claim it was the inmates running the asylum. He did eventually lose the locker room his final year. If he's given good assistant coaches, especially defensive coaches, he's smart enough to get out of thier way, as an offensive mind, I'd say he was a bit overrated. During his time with the Giants we never had a season where our offensive line wasn't a HUGE concern.

Even during our Super Bowl run, the line was filled with past their prime has beens, which was somehow kept together with smoke and mirrors by the legend Jim McNally.

And those are the first things that come to the top of my head. Basically he's no Ray Handley, and for that you should be glad.


How can you have a consistent team when your QBs are Kent Graham, Danny Kanell, and Kerry Collins? The idea that you could have 3 playoff appearances, 2 division titles, and a Super Bowl appearance with that group is almost ridiculous. He never had the fortune of coaching even ONE top tier offensive lineman or WR. He coached a top tier TE and the kid was ALL-PRO as a rookie under Fassel. How often are rookies All-Pros?

The prevalent theory of him needing a good defensive coordinator to succeed is hilarious. At what time has an offensive minded HC NOT needed a good defensive coordinator? Do people hold it against Joe Gibbs that he "needed" Gregg Williams?

IMO, people are acting like the Giants had way more talent than they really did. Fassel won NFL Coach of the Year Award twice for a reason.

[DWinzit]

It could be worse, he could be Wade Philips. :laugh:Ouch, Maybe you don't understand exactly who Wade Philips is!:laugh:

[pointyfootball]

If memory serves me correctly, he was the coach when the Eagles hadn't beat the Giants in like 9 games or something like that. Not saying a WHOLE lot because the Iggles sucked, but for a long time they could not get over that hump.

[Inquisitor]

How can you have a consistent team when your QBs are Kent Graham, Danny Kanell, and Kerry Collins? The idea that you could have 3 playoff appearances, 2 division titles, and a Super Bowl appearance with that group is almost ridiculous. He never had the fortune of coaching even ONE top tier offensive lineman or WR. He coached a top tier TE and the kid was ALL-PRO as a rookie under Fassel. How often are rookies All-Pros?

The prevalent theory of him needing a good defensive coordinator to succeed is hilarious. At what time has an offensive minded HC NOT needed a good defensive coordinator? Do people hold it against Joe Gibbs that he "needed" Gregg Williams?

IMO, people are acting like the Giants had way more talent than they really did. Fassel won NFL Coach of the Year Award twice for a reason.

Give me a break, the man had seven years... seven years, to find a QB, and offensive line. He has only himself to blame for settling with the likes of Kanell, Graham, and to a lesser extent Collins. The offensive line was completely ignored under Fassel, outside of Petitgout, and Hatch (who was a bust of epic proportions) I don't think we spent another 1st day pick on the line his entire tenure.

The NFC East was also an entirely different beast during the majority of his reign as Giants HC. It was a putrid division filled with perennial underachivers. So yeah, he managed to get us two division crowns. But let's not mistake it for what they were. He rode a couple of steller defenses coached by an excellent assistant by the name of John Fox, and was mostly hands off on the offense up till the end, when I think he made his most bold, and correct move as HC and demoted Sean Payton. Taking over play calling duties in 2002 and riding us into the playoff's.

As for your claim that he never coached a top-tier receiver? Amani Toomer had his best years under Fassel, and was absolutely a top 10 talent for about a 5-year span, when you take account who was throwing the ball to him, it makes his stats all the more amazing. He's considered an all-time Giant for a reason.

By the way, I never said he needed a great defensive coordinator to succeed. Only that he was smart enough to be hands off on that area of operations.

[scyber]

I don't think Fassel had personnel responsibilities when he was in NY, so holding some of those issues against him are a little unfair. That is more Ernie Accorsi's failings.

I like Fassel as a coach. I thought he took teams that were pretty mediocre to the playoffs. And I think had the defense not collapsed in SF in '02, that team could have made it alot further.

[Inquisitor]

I don't think Fassel had personnel responsibilities when he was in NY, so holding some of those issues against him are a little unfair. That is more Ernie Accorsi's failings.

I like Fassel as a coach. I thought he took teams that were pretty mediocre to the playoffs. And I think had the defense not collapsed in SF in '02, that team could have made it alot further.

Every head coach in the league has to have a working relationship with their GM as far player personnel goes, no one knows for sure who had final say, most likely it was EA. But Fassel absolutely had input, so must be held accountable as well, we can argue to what degree however.

The Giants offense was great in '02, after Fassel took over play calling duties from Payton, who was way too enamored with trickery, and his bazillion differet formations, over fudamentals he should have been stressing. For me that is where Jim Fassel proves he can coach in this league, not the "I'm putting my chips on the table speech."

Which was nice of him to do right when we began a cakewalk schedule.

[wysknz1]

[QUOTE=Inquisitor]But in that span the team was so ridiculously inconsistent year to year you just did not know what to expect from them.

Occasionally they'd pull off the improbabe win during the season, only to be totally humiliated the very next week by a clearly inferior team. It was really frustrating to follow those teams, don't even get me started on the lack of discipline. They were always among the most highly penalized teams in the league. They always seemed to be among the most injury riddled teams in the league as well.
QUOTE]


Sounds like he'll fit right in here. This is the consistancy Dan was speaking of

[Shilsu]

Here's a simple question. When the Cowboys were thinking about hiring Norv Turner, we all laughed.

Now that we're thinking about hiring Jim Fassel, what are Giants fans doing?

[ptr77]

Look at his coordinators he had... I hope the skins do hire fassel, the guy is worse than billick imo. Extremely overrated as an offensive guy and just a bad HC.

[Califan007]

Sounds like he'll fit right in here. This is the consistancy Dan was speaking of
:laugh: :laugh:

[pjfootballer]

How can you have a consistent team when your QBs are Kent Graham, Danny Kanell, and Kerry Collins? The idea that you could have 3 playoff appearances, 2 division titles, and a Super Bowl appearance with that group is almost ridiculous. He never had the fortune of coaching even ONE top tier offensive lineman or WR. He coached a top tier TE and the kid was ALL-PRO as a rookie under Fassel. How often are rookies All-Pros?

The prevalent theory of him needing a good defensive coordinator to succeed is hilarious. At what time has an offensive minded HC NOT needed a good defensive coordinator? Do people hold it against Joe Gibbs that he "needed" Gregg Williams?

IMO, people are acting like the Giants had way more talent than they really did. Fassel won NFL Coach of the Year Award twice for a reason.

That I did not know.

[Tom [Giants fan]]

It could be worse, he could be Wade Philips. :laugh:


:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :applause: :applause: :applause:

[CrazyLikeAFox87]

I'm interested in the opinion of some of our Giants fans that contribute to the board. Looking back on their Fassel years, is he remembered fondly for taking them to the SB, or more for the final 4-12 season.

What are your memories of him as a coach, handling players, coaching appointments, systems etc.

If he is going to be our next coach, it would be good to get an idea of the man behind the name.

Thanks.

[ceviker]

I will value only Tom's opinion on this

[Clinton Portis # 26]

Big thread on it in the ATN Forum

[kill4stdie4thaskinz]

^^i love that sig its the dang truth bout brunell and his dusty arm..anyways i seen a thread in around tha nfl...u mite wanna check that out tossin a headsup!

[stevenaa]

http://extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234663

[Clinton Portis # 26]

Here's the link: http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234663

[CrazyLikeAFox87]

Ok, didn't know it was on there. Pretty relevant to us now though, surely warrants discussion here.

Mixed comments about him so far, depends on how people view the help from his assistants, and the quality of players. With respect to that, and his QBs in particular, he was there, what, 7 years? Surely that's time enough to get a decent QB.

Collins was half decent when he was there from what I remember, although coverage over here in those days wasn't as good as it is now.

Was Collins the QB for SBXXXV?

[fansince62]

^^i love that sig its the dang truth bout brunell and his dusty arm..anyways i seen a thread in around tha nfl...u mite wanna check that out tossin a headsup!

geez...throttle back! the guy is past his prime.....but he is doing a lot of good in the community....more probably than 90%+ og the ES membership. his playing days are over.

[JerseyGator]

Fassel has an eye for talent on offense. In one draft, he picked Hilliard and Tiki. Aside from Cooley, who was the last draft offensive pick to star for the Skins? Hilliard would have been even better if it weren't for some nasty injuries.

I find Fassel to be comparable to Coughlin.

[HailGreen28]

If Synder wants someone new, why not roll the dice on someone new like a coordinator. Or stick with a good defensive coach here. :doh:

[Chachie]

But in that span the team was so ridiculously inconsistent year to year you just did not know what to expect from them.

Occasionally they'd pull off the improbabe win during the season, only to be totally humiliated the very next week by a clearly inferior team.



So he's a lot like Joe Gibbs? :) (Kidding! I kid!)

[barens2]

I think Fassel is a very good coach, and I'd think Redskins fans should be happy with the choice.

He's basically a QB friendly coach, and he'd probably maxamize Jason Campbell's skills. He's a good offensive coach, and he's got a great feel for play-calling.

I read a few of the posts about coordinators, and if you want to compare, how did Tom Coughlin fare when we had Tim Lewis as our defensive coordinator? Not so great, just like Fassel with Johnny Lynn. That's the way it goes sometimes.

I think the comments about the inmates running the asylam under Fassel is ridiculous, and has no basis to it. He took many untatlented teams average or successful seasons until his last, when the Giants finally got a good quarterback.

My 3 beefs with Fassel, talent evaluation, and his thoroughness on how to teach each and every player how to play the game, and his special teams always left much to be desired. These are the clear differences I see between Fassel and Coughlin.

[The_cavalierman]

I'll pass on Fassell if given a choice.

[mvisit1]

I'll pass on Fassell if given a choice.

Who would you rather have? And you can't say Gregg Williams as he is no longer an option. I'd be happy with either Meeks or Spagnuolo.

[KingRex]

He's a good coach. Not very good at evaluating talent. Great with offenses, and can make failed Quarterbacks play like champs. Whomever is the Redskins GM, they must be willing to work WITH Fassel.

Fassel had a frigid relationship with Ernie Accorsi, mostly because Accorsi is a ***** who doesn't understand the importance of offensive lines. All Fassel really needs to be successful is a GM who has an eye for talent and knowledge about what works in football. Like Guards and Centers are important in protecting the QB.

One more thing: Don't let Fassel near any female interns.