Is the USSR coming back?

[The_cavalierman]

Bush looked into Putin's soul but I don't think he saw this. Putin is slowly but surely rolling back all of the freedom reforms in Russia.


Link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/25/AR2008012502962.html?hpid%3Dtopnews&sub=AR) - Russia Draft Issue

Link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6178890.stm) - Ex Spy killed

Link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3293441.stm) - Chechen conflict

Link (http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/5/1/214340.shtml) - Russian - Chinese Pact

What will our relationship with Russia look like 20 years from now?

[ACW]

No wonder Bush likes Putin so much :doh:

[The_cavalierman]

No wonder Bush likes Putin so much :doh:


Well at least Putin is competent....He is evil, but competent.

We are not so lucky:doh:

[twa]

Putin is doing what is best for Russia,it may not be pretty,but they will be a major player on the world's stage for a long time.

I'll simply ignore the Bush bashing from the usual suspects :silly:

[The_cavalierman]

Putin is doing what is best for Russia,it may not be pretty,but they will be a major player on the world's stage for a long time.

I'll simply ignore the Bush bashing from the usual suspects :silly:


1. The Russian press has been censored

2. Chechnya is cut off from the rest of the world and the rumors of the atrocities there are too consistent to ignore.

3. Putin is hand picking the government and his successor

It is not Bush bashing when you point out the fact that Bush endorsed Putin and he is setting up another closed and freedomless Russia.

I guess we should all be praising bush for his soul reading abilities:laugh:

[Midnight Judges]

IMO, both Putin and Bush have set their countries back a decade. Both are pathetic at foreign relations. Hopefully, both populations will learn from their mistakes.

[twa]

I guess we should all be praising bush for his soul reading abilities:laugh:

Apparently you endorse Putin as well ;)

quote Cav
"Well at least Putin is competent....He is evil, but competent."

Or is this not about the USSR,and just another Bush bash ? :rolleyes:

[Destino]

Putin is doing what is best for Russia,it may not be pretty,but they will be a major player on the world's stage for a long time.

I'll simply ignore the Bush bashing from the usual suspects :silly:
You normally the "fascist" remark is going too far but here you are actaully claiming that a reduction of freedoms is a good thing becuase it will make Russia a major player. That's a hell of a statement to be making.

[Oldskool]

USSR may have lost its satellite states but Russia never really ceased from being the real USSR, The Yeltsin years were a charade.

[Zguy28]

You normally the "fascist" remark is going too far but here you are actaully claiming that a reduction of freedoms is a good thing becuase it will make Russia a major player. That's a hell of a statement to be making.I guess if it gets people out of the bread lines, some might not see it as that bad.:2cents:

[Zguy28]

1. The Russian press has been censored

2. Chechnya is cut off from the rest of the world and the rumors of the atrocities there are too consistent to ignore.

3. Putin is hand picking the government and his successor

It is not Bush bashing when you point out the fact that Bush endorsed Putin and he is setting up another closed and freedomless Russia.

I guess we should all be praising bush for his soul reading abilities:laugh:I'm surprised Danny Glover and Sean Penn aren't over there kissing his rearend like Chavez.

[The_cavalierman]

I'm surprised Danny Glover and Sean Penn aren't over there kissing his rearend like Chavez.


Another weapon of mass distraction...

When you cannot defend Bush change the subject to actors. Did Sean Penn and Danny Glover look into Putin's soul?

Oh, wait.....that was Bush. :rolleyes:

[The_cavalierman]

Apparently you endorse Putin as well ;)

quote Cav
"Well at least Putin is competent....He is evil, but competent."

Or is this not about the USSR,and just another Bush bash ? :rolleyes:


Do you know the difference in meaning between the words competent and endorsement? Only a flaming idiot would not know the difference.

For Example:

I think Bush (41) was competent, but I did not vote or endorse him.

:doh:

[Ken]

Where is the option they never went away?

[twa]

You normally the "fascist" remark is going too far but here you are actaully claiming that a reduction of freedoms is a good thing becuase it will make Russia a major player. That's a hell of a statement to be making.

I'm having trouble figuring out what you are referring to with the "fascist" remark?

I do believe Putin will make Russia stronger(which is good for Russia as a country)

Is it good for personal freedoms?...Of course not

Are his actions good for the US?....No

Even fascists have value as leaders if you focus on jingoist issues related to a countries power and influence.

A example would be Guiliani....He would be beneficial to the US in a fascist sense ,but I do not think the benefit outweighs the costs to freedom.

Personal freedom can be detrimental to a country's power.

[Destino]

I'm having trouble figuring out what you are referring to with the "fascist" remark?
Really? Read the next quote.


Personal freedom can be detrimental to a country's power.
and the crowd goes wild!!!

[Oldskool]

Really? Read the next quote.


and the crowd goes wild!!!

When trying to reclaim a country power via either National Socialist or Socialist means, he is correct.

However, Putin isn't doing this for the love of the Russian people. He is doing it to maintain his and his cronies power and to restore the Soviet state that he loved for years and worked within as a KGB agent.

[The_cavalierman]

Personal freedom can be detrimental to a country's power.



Call me crazy but I always thought a country's power is enhanced by the individual freedoms of the people (see America)

[twa]

Really? Read the next quote.


and the crowd goes wild!!!

Oh...so you think I am a fascist because I can recognize the effect Putin will have? :laugh:

I am actually much closer to Ron Paul's stances at heart,I just don't ignore the reality of the present world.



How's that for increasing the target of outrage?....next up is religion ;)

[The_cavalierman]

Personal freedom can be detrimental to a country's power.


:wtf:

Doesn't sound fascist to me....:dunce:

[twa]

Call me crazy but I always thought a country's power is enhanced by the individual freedoms of the people (see America)

Enhanced, yes....but they do not provide a atmosphere for them to prosper in and of themselves.

"In the truest sense, freedom cannot be bestowed; it must be achieved."

"True individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made of." FDR

[GibbsFactor]

The Russian people, mostly the younger generation, miss being the USSR and hearing about their glory and seeing their current reality. Putin is simply using that to his advantage to unite the country, for better or worse.

It seems the young generation of both the USA and Russia want their countries known identities to come back. Both feel their beloved countries have abandoned and forsaken them.

[The_cavalierman]

The Russian people, mostly the younger generation, miss being the USSR and hearing about their glory and seeing their current reality. Putin is simply using that to his advantage to unite the country, for better or worse.

It seems the young generation of both the USA and Russia want their countries known identities to come back. Both feel their beloved countries have abandoned and forsaken them.

What does America's young generation long for?

[VASkins540]

ignore (delete?) this post, I just woke up and am cranky.

[Hardcoreskinsfan]

You normally the "fascist" remark is going too far but here you are actaully claiming that a reduction of freedoms is a good thing becuase it will make Russia a major player. That's a hell of a statement to be making.

Wow, you assumed a LOT there. Where did he say it was a good thing? I don't even follow how you could even assume that you knew what he was thinking when he wrote that. I'm sure he appreciates you putting words in his mouth though.:applause:

[GibbsFactor]

What do America's young generation long for?



Look at the candidates they support, Obama speaking of change, and that other guy. Peace and prosperity. Freedom from the government, the American dream, etc...

From my understanding, they feel, as do I, that we are going down the wrong path, slowly but surely.

Look how Putin is beloved by the young generation. They long for the glory of their country to return.

[The_cavalierman]

Look at the candidates they support, Obama speaking of change, and that other guy. Peace and prosperity. Freedom from the government, the American dream, etc...

From my understanding, they feel, as do I, that we are going down the wrong path, slowly but surely.

Look how Putin is beloved by the young generation. They long for the glory of their country to return.

Now that's an interesting take.

I would think the older Russians may long for the USSR but it is the kids?

[GibbsFactor]

They call themselves Nashi, Putin's Generation.

[hokie4redskins]

"Yes, daat eez vhat ve vanted you to tink, BWAHAHA"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qq7cRN9guI&feature=related

[The_cavalierman]

They call themselves Nashi.

Nashi as in a knock off of Nazi?


Is Putin trying to seduce the youth with visions of power, prestige etc. of the old USSR?

[GibbsFactor]

Nashi as in a knock off of Nazi?


Is Putin trying to seduce the youth with visions of power, prestige etc. of the old USSR?



You got it. Nashi translates to "ours" and is a creation of the Kremlin. Here's a good article on it, all though it's a bit slanted since it's the Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/08/world/europe/08moscow.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

[The_cavalierman]

"Yes, daat eez vhat ve vanted you to tink, BWAHAHA"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qq7cRN9guI&feature=related

:cheers: Nice!

[GibbsFactor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeA6y2vFXgU




Nashi is our hope against the crimnal american and traitorus israel scum. Our leader Putin speaks and we will follow to rid us of outside treachery from small pathetic countries. Slava Rossii!!! We will conquer Nato and Europe.

[Sarge]

And people give me **** for thinking the commies are a threat

THis is a case where I hate to say I told you so

[Zguy28]

Another weapon of mass distraction...

When you cannot defend Bush change the subject to actors. Did Sean Penn and Danny Glover look into Putin's soul?

Oh, wait.....that was Bush. :rolleyes:Sorry you misunderstood me. I'm not defending Bush. Not in the slightest. I was referring to the first part of your post in which you related what Putin has done. Its similar to what Chavez has done.:2cents:

[The_cavalierman]

And people give me **** for thinking the commies are a threat

THis is a case where I hate to say I told you so


You call everyone that disagrees with you (mostly dems) commies so we are a little numb to your accusations.

[The_cavalierman]

Sorry you misunderstood me. I'm not defending Bush. Not in the slightest. I was referring to the first part of your post in which you related what Putin has done. Its similar to what Chavez has done.:2cents:

Well At least Chavez allowed the people to reject his bid to lengthen his presidency. Chavez is an idiot but not as Iron fisted as Putin.

Putin hand picks his successors

[twa]

Well At least Chavez allowed the people to reject his bid to lengthen his presidency. Chavez is an idiot but not as Iron fisted as Putin.

Putin hand picks his successors

We shall see on Chavez giving up power, I look for him to provoke a crisis to solidify his hold.

btw...GibbsFactor

it's good to see you are paying attention to what is going on. :applause:

[GibbsFactor]

We shall see on Chavez giving up power, I look for him to provoke a crisis to solidify his hold.

btw...GibbsFactor

it's good to see you are paying attention to what is going on. :applause:



Now can you see my position of over extending ourselves. What good are all those bases if we can't operate them???

[twa]

Now can you see my position of over extending ourselves. What good are all those bases if we can't operate them???

We will have to continue to disagree there.

The new bases and alliances might prove very important in the future,when needed.
The only thing overextended is the Army...and they needed the pressure to reform/reorganize.imo (of course that's coming from a fascist,so take it for what it's worth ;) )

[SUSkinsFan]

And people give me **** for thinking the commies are a threat

THis is a case where I hate to say I told you soOh c'mon, admit it Sarge. You love saying "I Told You So"

[Sarge]

You call everyone that disagrees with you (mostly dems) commies so we are a little numb to your accusations.

Most Dems lean socialist/communist, so what's your point?

I'm sure a lot of Dems are probably happy to see the USSR come back. Help keep the US in it's place :rolleyes:

[SUSkinsFan]

Most Dems lean socialist/communist, so what's your point?

I'm sure a lot of Dems are probably happy to see the USSR come back. Help keep the US in it's place :rolleyes:I studied the USSR and Russia this semester and it was certainly an interesting class. What Pres. Putin has done was fascinating to study and I had to write a paper summarizing Russian news articles. Being able to see both sides of a situation helped me understand US positions on topics like the missile defense shield in Central Europe.

But in terms of my country, I am not glad that the Russia is returning to a position of power since it threatens United States power around the world.

[The_cavalierman]

Most Dems lean socialist/communist, so what's your point?

I'm sure a lot of Dems are probably happy to see the USSR come back. Help keep the US in it's place :rolleyes:


Interesting generalization of most dems and their leanings. Allow me to generalize a little myself.

Since most Republicans lean fascist/totalitarian I can see why you don't want another totalitarian regime around. Can't have two bullies in such close proximity.

Dems might be a little more worried about the freedoms (or lack there of) for the Russian people. All most republicans care about is the threat to their perceived turf.:doh:

[The_cavalierman]

We shall see on Chavez giving up power, I look for him to provoke a crisis to solidify his hold.

btw...GibbsFactor

it's good to see you are paying attention to what is going on. :applause:


Looks like the people have more of a say when it comes to Chavez..

[JerseyBach]

I wonder what Reagan would think of a KGB member as President of Russia. Mr. Putin, rebuild that wall.

[The_cavalierman]

I wonder what Reagan would think of a KGB member as President of Russia. Mr. Putin, rebuild that wall.

Reagan wouldn't remember

[SUSkinsFan]

Reagan wouldn't rememberthat is wrong on so many different levels. but I laughed anyway

[The_cavalierman]

that is wrong on so many different levels. but I laughed anyway

You're right....I'm going to church tomorrow

ehhh...I'll just go to a strip club and donate to the church of our naked lady instead.:D

[Destino]

Wow, you assumed a LOT there. Where did he say it was a good thing? I don't even follow how you could even assume that you knew what he was thinking when he wrote that. I'm sure he appreciates you putting words in his mouth though.:applause:

"Putin is doing what is best for Russia"

What is BEST for Russia.

BEST

That is where he said it was a good thing. He said it was the BEST thing for Russia.

I don't know what he is thinking I do know what he wrote.

[Destino]

Oh...so you think I am a fascist because I can recognize the effect Putin will have? :laugh:
No I think you have some fascist views because of your opinions on the effects of cracking down on personal freedom. You immediately saw the benefits to Russian power. I personally think a crack down harms Russia for decades to come and will without question weaken it's international status by distancing it from most of the worlds economic power.

Our reactions to the removal of freedom are entirely different. You seem to have a sympathetic view of a strong arm government.

[twa]

No I think you have some fascist views because of your opinions on the effects of cracking down on personal freedom. You immediately saw the benefits to Russian power. I personally think a crack down harms Russia for decades to come and will without question weaken it's international status by distancing it from most of the worlds economic power.

Our reactions to the removal of freedom are entirely different. You seem to have a sympathetic view of a strong arm government.


That's fair enough( I figured as much)

I think our biggest difference is faith in peoples choice's in personal freedoms and the results.

I freely admit I think the majority is not capable of rational thought or even making choices in the interests of themselves or their country.

Damn...I sound like Hillary (or most politicians);)

[Mass_SkinsFan]

I am totally in agreement with those who believe Russia is returning to its Communist roots as the USSR. Unfortunately, I would suggest that the United States is headed in that same direction as we speak. Unfortunately 20 years from now I don't doubt that both superpowers (US and Russia) will both be Communist states.

[Hardcoreskinsfan]

"Putin is doing what is best for Russia"

What is BEST for Russia.

BEST

That is where he said it was a good thing. He said it was the BEST thing for Russia.

I don't know what he is thinking I do know what he wrote.

Again, you assumed you knew what he meant by what he wrote. Another way you could have said it is...."Do you mean that it's a good thing that Putin uses strong arm tactics and bullies his people around?"

That lets everyone know exactly what you thought he meant without being presumptuous.

[Hardcoreskinsfan]

I freely admit I think the majority is not capable of rational thought or even making choices in the interests of themselves or their country.


So basically you think that the majority is pretty dumb and incapable of knowing what is best for themselves?
:allhail:

[twa]

So basically you think that the majority is pretty dumb and incapable of knowing what is best for themselves?
:allhail:


The evidence supports that assumption(not dumb necessarily,but guilty of poor judgment)...yes

You could say the Founding Fathers agreed with that,as evidenced by not forming a true Democracy....There are buffers inherent in the system for a reason.

No need to worship me ;) ...I don't want the responsibility.


Added

If it's any consolation ,my kids probably would agree I have fascist traits.
But since it resulted in responsible adults capable of thinking for themselves,I can live with it....too much freedom from responsibility results in anarchy.

[Helter_Skelter]

Is the USSR coming back?

If so, everyone better find a desk and hide under it.

[Hardcoreskinsfan]

The evidence supports that assumption(not dumb necessarily,but guilty of poor judgment)...yes

You could say the Founding Fathers agreed with that,as evidenced by not forming a true Democracy....There are buffers inherent in the system for a reason.

No need to worship me ;) ...I don't want the responsibility.


Added

If it's any consolation ,my kids probably would agree I have fascist traits.
But since it resulted in responsible adults capable of thinking for themselves,I can live with it....too much freedom from responsibility results in anarchy.

If fascist means looking out for the best interests of your children regardless of what they think, then sign me up. Since it doesn't, I don't think you have to worry about folks thinking you're fascist. If you see the quote in my signature, you'll see what I think about our government looking out for our "best interests."

[Chachie]

"This here snakeskin jacket..."


http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc173/Chalzbunz/SailorRipley.jpg


If you didn't see the movie, don't ask. If you did, Kudos. :)