Skins Draft History - This is scary...

[HAILSKINSNYC]

based on what I'm about to write, I really hope we sign hackett.


since 1990, here are the receivers we've drafted...

receivers drafted in the first 3 rounds...

westbrook, desmond howard, tydus winans, cliff russell, taylor jacobs, rod gardner.

receivers drafted after the 3rd round...

keith cash, terry smith, deandre maxwell, albert connell, pat palmer, tim alexander, ethan howell.

I guess you could also say we're due to draft a good receiver.

[Walking Deadman]

I haven't been impressed with the potential 1st rounder WRs....I'd rather see us go CB, DT, OT or get the guy I have in my sig. :)

[SC_RedskinsFan]

I have been saying that we need to trade to get a proven WR, and not just draft one and cross our fingers that he turns out to be good.

[DCchillin89]

The guy you have in your sig is amazing. Simple logic, when do you ever hear of a guard being a bust. They are the lowest risk pick in the draft. Many say he is a better prospect than Shawn Andrews of the Eagles, and we all know how that one turned out

[DWinzit]

On top of what you are now realizing regarding the WR picks, WR's rarely contribute much in their first year as a pro. They are better off taking their chances on a mid round WR.

[thinker]

It's mostly different people that are going to be picking in the draft for the Skins this year - so I don't really think that past performance really is all that relevant. If anybody didn't know before you should know by now that for all his fine talents as a coach, Joe Gibbs was not a particularly good judge of college player talent. Schotts for brains wasn't here long enough to really judge him. Spurrier - who the hell knows what he was ever thinking. Gibbs did the committee approach and defered a great deal to his position coaches. This is course made it difficult to assess blame to a particular person. What we do know now is that Vinny will have a lot more say than he probably did in the past so we'll see what kind of eye he has. He certainly was blamed for a lot of players he was probably opposed to. I do remember that he really didn't want to pick Taylor Jacobs and wanted to pick Mike Doss instead but lost that battle to SOS.

To the extent that Zorn has input now - who knows what kind of eye for talent he has? We know that Grilliams had a tendency to misjudge some guys but he's gone. The LB pick last year Sartz - they had figured out by minicamp that he was a bust. What's Blatche's record? Well he had a lot to say about acquiring and coaching Golsten, Montgomery, Carter, Chris Wilson so that says to me that I would be inclined to trust his eye for talent.

So overall I'm more optimistic that we'll have a good draft this year than at any time since Bobby Beathard was GM.

[Doctorfro]

I've said all along that we stink at the draft. Oh yeah, we get a fellw players but most are busts. "Build through the draft"....Wish we could do it.

[HAILSKINSNYC]

I actually think overall, since Snyder has been the owner, we've been a good drafting team...just not with receivers.

[Spartacus87]

I've said all along that we stink at the draft. Oh yeah, we get a fellw players but most are busts. "Build through the draft"....Wish we could do it. I'd say the last couple years we've had some pretty decent drafts, just not a lot of draft picks to use. Taylor, Landry, Rogers, Cooley, Campbell, Rocky, Montgomery, Golston, Blades, Doughty...even undrafted guys like Mix and Heyer, not too bad overall.


I haven't been impressed with the potential 1st rounder WRs....I'd rather see us go CB, DT, OT or get the guy I have in my sig. :) If we got Albert I'd be so happy I couldn't get the grin off my face for the rest of the weekend. He'd be an immediate starter and a huge boost for our running game.

[Walking Deadman]

I actually think overall, since Snyder has been the owner, we've been a good drafting team...just not with receivers.

I also think we've drafted better than we've gottne credit for. The problem in the past is that we give up most of our picks..........

[THEArmchairQB]

I have been saying that we need to trade to get a proven WR, and not just draft one and cross our fingers that he turns out to be good.

I agree. With the steep learning curve for WRs in the NFL and the 'three year' rule, I would much rather see us trade for a proven WR commodity like Roy Williams or Chad Johnson. Now I'm not advocating trading for either of those, but they would be the type of player I would like to see us make a move for.

Most of all, I don't want to see us overpay in a trade for a player. I don't think any of the potential WRs on the trade market are worth a 1st round pick, and the only two whose stock would warrent a 2nd rounder are Roy Williams and Chad (but with Chad's personality issues I wouldn't give up a 2nd for him).

I wish we could find a guy like Brandon Marshall or DJ Hackett in the middle rounds and give him time to develop into a quality player. All in all I have been pleased with the players picked we have picked up in the later rounds over the last couple of years so I think this is a ligitimate possibility. Unfortunately we need help now.

[ceviker]

I'd say the last couple years we've had some pretty decent drafts, just not a lot of draft picks to use. Taylor, Landry, Rogers, Cooley, Campbell, Rocky, Montgomery, Golston, Blades, Doughty...even undrafted guys like Mix and Heyer, not too bad overall.

If we got Albert I'd be so happy I couldn't get the grin off my face for the rest of the weekend. He'd be an immediate starter and a huge boost for our running game.

Are you nuts? Who would Albert start in front of? Assuming our line is healthy, he's not better than anyone in our starting 5 (jansen, samuels, thomas, kendall, rabach). The problem is our o-line's age and therefore health. What we need are some young body's in the OL like Heyer.

I swear, WR has been a problem for the past 15 years here and people still refuse to accept it. Yeah, we could use a better pass rush - but hello people, we were losing because of our offense's inability to score points, not our defense.

Fix what's broken first, then worry about adding depth

[Mercuryrising]

Are you nuts? Who would Albert start in front of? Assuming our line is healthy, he's not better than anyone in our starting 5 (jansen, samuels, thomas, kendall, rabach). The problem is our o-line's age and therefore health. What we need are some young body's in the OL like Heyer.

I swear, WR has been a problem for the past 15 years here and people still refuse to accept it. Yeah, we could use a better pass rush - but hello people, we were losing because of our offense's inability to score points, not our defense.

Fix what's broken first, then worry about adding depth

He would be a certain upgrade over Kendall, and if he can slide inside a HUGE, I say HUGE upgrade over Rabach.

[illone]

Past performance does not guarantee future results.

Those were different teams, owners, GMs, etc, and have NOTHING to do with 2008.

This is just a stupid concept. Are some of you guys really this illogical and supersticious that you'd suggest the team avoid drafting a WR because of something that happened a few years in a row?

[Spartacus87]

Are you nuts? Who would Albert start in front of? Assuming our line is healthy, he's not better than anyone in our starting 5 (jansen, samuels, thomas, kendall, rabach). The problem is our o-line's age and therefore health. What we need are some young body's in the OL like Heyer.
Are you nuts? Albert definitely has the potential (not to mention the knees) to beat out Kendall. Kendall can barely pull, and it's not like the push he gets on straight ahead running plays is anything to write home about. At his best he's above average and he's certainly on his last legs as a starter. Meanwhile many think Albert could be a Pro Bowl calibre guard one day, especially under the coaching of Bugel, plus the kid can play tackle if need be.

If we don't get Albert, we better make sure we grab Roy Schuening or Chilo Rachal...guard is going to be a big problem very soon if we don't address it with high quality draft picks, not just project guys, and with our picks this year it's the perfect draft to do it.


He would be a certain upgrade over Kendall, and if he can slide inside a HUGE, I say HUGE upgrade over Rabach. Rabach isn't that bad. He's not a world beater but he's an above average center in the league, him and Samuels are really the least of my concerns on the o-line.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

I wouldn't be excited but I'd be happy drafting Albert. However those that think he will be stepping right in and starting must have short memories. Doesn't anybody remember that Dockery wasn't so great his first year. Didn't he cost us a game on his own...philly with like 5 penalties and causing a fumble for our offense. He grew and got better, one of my favorites, but it took some time. I would expect our current 5 to start even if we drafted him.

[bedlamVR]

Who did we have at LG before him ? Having Kendell there gives you the opportunity to feed someone like Albert into the line gradually .

The same can be said for having Daniels and Griffin on the D line, Springs at CB, Doughety at S ( although I would leave the safeties as are) . The only place you cold argue we wouldnt have someone as a tutor is at WR, BUT i still don't want to draft someone in the 1st round and would rather get a Marcus Monk in the 5th not because of the history of drafting WRs is poor, but the crop of WR's is poor and you would get bigger bang for your buck elsewhere

[Veretax]

if you improve the offensive line, you help both the running and passing games.

[TK]

based on what I'm about to write, I really hope we sign hackett.


since 1990, here are the receivers we've drafted...

receivers drafted in the first 3 rounds...

westbrook, desmond howard, tydus winans, cliff russell, taylor jacobs, rod gardner.

receivers drafted after the 3rd round...

keith cash, terry smith, deandre maxwell, albert connell, pat palmer, tim alexander, ethan howell.

I guess you could also say we're due to draft a good receiver.
Where have I seen this at before (http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4995315#post4995315)? :)

[fansince62]

Past performance does not guarantee future results.

Those were different teams, owners, GMs, etc, and have NOTHING to do with 2008.

This is just a stupid concept. Are some of you guys really this illogical and supersticious that you'd suggest the team avoid drafting a WR because of something that happened a few years in a row?

and you see no problem with the converse as being just as illogical?!

ok..the past isn't prologue......and the reason for expecting a different outcome is?

I do believe the issue is not drafting a wr so much as drafting one in the first round.

[D-Day]

Despite popular opinion we do draft well, it is the lack of picks that hurt the team.

Also if Vinny does half as good as he did as the director of scouting in finding the players that got us to the playoffs last year (Heyer UDFA, HB Blades, Lorenzo Alexander UDFA, Chris Wilson Canada) then he will have a good draft. These are/should be his moves not the BL's and the AA's of the world. Those are on the coaches that saw the tapes and said I need this guy.

[D-Day]

Who did we have at LG before him ? Having Kendell there gives you the opportunity to feed someone like Albert into the line gradually .

The same can be said for having Daniels and Griffin on the D line, Springs at CB, Doughety at S ( although I would leave the safeties as are) . The only place you cold argue we wouldnt have someone as a tutor is at WR, BUT i still don't want to draft someone in the 1st round and would rather get a Marcus Monk in the 5th not because of the history of drafting WRs is poor, but the crop of WR's is poor and you would get bigger bang for your buck elsewhere

Agreed

For the first time in a long time we are not in the position to have to draft a starter this year. We need to see whom is available if we can't trade down and who we have on the team. If our OG and DE talent is comparable then we have to go DE. We still have two good starting guards so whomever we draft at OG in the 2nd or third has a year to learn. We need a starting DE, if Daniels goes down we are hosed. WR needs to come later in the draft.

However I think the most important position of need this year is a C/G combo type guy who can play both positions. We do not have a reliable backup center period.

[ClintonINFORSIX26]

I want to see where the Lorenzo Alexander situation goes...they talked about the possibility of moving him to guard, which i think he definitely has the athleticism to play.

I would be estatic with a WR, DE, OT, S, in the first round. Whoever we draft I will welcome him to be the future of the washington redskins

[Walking Deadman]

Are you nuts? Who would Albert start in front of? Assuming our line is healthy, he's not better than anyone in our starting 5 (jansen, samuels, thomas, kendall, rabach). The problem is our o-line's age and therefore health. What we need are some young body's in the OL like Heyer.

I swear, WR has been a problem for the past 15 years here and people still refuse to accept it. Yeah, we could use a better pass rush - but hello people, we were losing because of our offense's inability to score points, not our defense.

Fix what's broken first, then worry about adding depth

I'm looking at the future past 2008....Kendall will not be here in 2009, Thomas has had major injuries the past few years. I agree that WR is an issue that needs to be addressed but so far the WR class hasn't looked that terrific. I personally like Albert at 21 vs. who probably will be available at other positions (CB, DT, WR) maybe that opinion will change as we get closer to draft day and I get to hear/see so pro-day workouts.

[[[ghost]]]

I have been saying that we need to trade to get a proven WR, and not just draft one and cross our fingers that he turns out to be good.

Lets trade for a WR, like we did with Brandon Lloyd.

Or like the Broncos did with Walker. Hell, if we trade for one, we might get one year out of him at least, like the Broncos.

Using that logic, why don't we trade for proven players on every position, instead of drafting.

[Ant15fromNJ]

I guess you can say were due haha.

[Laxpunk2006]

Are you nuts? Who would Albert start in front of? Assuming our line is healthy, he's not better than anyone in our starting 5 (jansen, samuels, thomas, kendall, rabach). The problem is our o-line's age and therefore health. What we need are some young body's in the OL like Heyer.

I swear, WR has been a problem for the past 15 years here and people still refuse to accept it. Yeah, we could use a better pass rush - but hello people, we were losing because of our offense's inability to score points, not our defense.

Fix what's broken first, then worry about adding depth

Good teams draft for two years from now, not this season. Kendall was a panic move last season. We realized we were unable to replace Dockery from within, and it was too late to find anyone else. It wasn't like Kendall was handpicked to come in and upgrade our line. In my opinion he was a significant downgrade from Big Dock.

He may not start his first year, but that would be a good thing. It means the other 5 starters are doing their jobs at a high level. If there are any injuries, which there always seem to be with us he can play LG, RG, or RT. That kind of versatility could save a roster spot that we could use elswhere.

I agree with you that we lost games because we couldn't score points. Does anyone remember our last two playoff losses to Seattle? Both games were missing Randy Thomas, and both games we were eaten alive by an excellent pass rush. Having someone like Alberts in the wing incase of injury or drop off in performance could be our savior in a similar situation.

Regardless of who our first round pick is, the chances are they will not be starting from day 1. While I agree we could use WR and DE help, I don't see a rookie coming in and beating out the Daniels/Wilson/Evans combo at LE or ARE at the #2 spot. So no matter what we are probably drafting for depth. My pick is Alberts.

[illone]

and you see no problem with the converse as being just as illogical?!

ok..the past isn't prologue......and the reason for expecting a different outcome is?

I do believe the issue is not drafting a wr so much as drafting one in the first round.


There is no converse because this is a different team with a different guy calling the shots on personnel;).

Throw away what happened last year, and the year before that. Gibbs ran thing differntly than Cerrato will in regards to the draft, free agency, etc., and we've already seen some proof of that in the way things have been handled up to this point.

I'm not saying the Redskins SHOULD or SHOULD NOT draft a WR. I'm saying using team draft history to do so is incredibly stupid and supersticious at best.

This year's crop of players has nothing to do with last years, or the year before that, or 10 years ago. Taking a DE in the first round simply 'because' is another gaff of epic proportions that some around here still think is the answer. To me, that's just a horrible way to build a football team, and thankfully it appears the Redskins are not moving forward in that manner.

The bottom line is that this upcoming draft presents a nice opportunity for the Redskins to get better at a few positions, WR and DE included. They have more draft picks this year than in four years under Gibbs, which I think is lost on many here. The first round isn't their only chance to get a good player.

And if they DO end up taking Limas Sweed or Malcolm Kelley in the first round then those guys aren't automatic busts simply because the Skins drafted poorly at the WR position for the past 10 years:laugh:.

My main point here is that there are way too many posters looking at draft history rather than focusing on the actual player. That's what Vinny and other NFL Gms do, they focus on the players. I'd bet good money that NFL GMs don't look at draft history unless they are trying to predict what another team might do that drafts near them.

:2cents:

[Thoth]

Look ahead, not back.

Just scout the piss out of whoever you pick this time.
DE is the hardest position to fill except QB.
If value and anything approaching BPA is available at DE, you pass on receiver.
I'd much rather draft a 3rd rounder and a Monk type guy in later rounds, and develop them.
But usually, if you want a freak, a guy with size and speed, its a first day pick.

[Thoth]

Are you nuts? Who would Albert start in front of? Assuming our line is healthy, he's not better than anyone in our starting 5 (jansen, samuels, thomas, kendall, rabach). The problem is our o-line's age and therefore health. What we need are some young body's in the OL like Heyer.

I swear, WR has been a problem for the past 15 years here and people still refuse to accept it. Yeah, we could use a better pass rush - but hello people, we were losing because of our offense's inability to score points, not our defense.

Fix what's broken first, then worry about adding depth


Just to refresh your memory:

Our RG & RT both went down early last season. Both have missed major portions of seasons multiple years now. Our season was pretty much over at that point, as we had to run left most of the rest of the year, and couldn't stop pass rushes on the right very well (see Seattle game).

So your opening caveat, Assuming our line is healthy, is a pretty huge assumption. The injuries were not just bad luck, they are what you'd expect from any unit where every starter is OLD.

Our starting LG was signed a week before the season started.

Our quarterback of the future was injured and lost for the year on a play with blown protection, hampering his development.

Our entire offensive line is over 30.

How you build an offense:

1. Find a QB.
2. PROTECT him.
3. Skill players.

Albert would start for whichever OL player goes down for the season, and history suggests at least one will. Plus, combined with Heyer, we then have quality depth when another guy is out for a few weeks, etc.

Hoping to have 2 members of your OL be under 30 is not some absurd and unreasonable request. Rather, your belief that we can get by with such old, injury-prone players is absurd.

It only takes one blown block to end the QBs season. Campbell isn't going to find any receiver from his back, or the rehab facilities.

Also, we are losing due to our offense's inability to score points, but this is as much due to poor OL play as receivers.

I don't see any TOs or Jerry Rices in the first round, and we already have two solid receivers with speed. You take Albert first, and if WR really kills you that much, draft 2, one 2nd, one in 3rd.

[smackedHugo]

we have to go brandon albert at 21

get it done vinny

[illone]

Are you nuts? Who would Albert start in front of?


Kendall:laugh:.

[moviedude25]

First, the Skins have not "sucked" in the draft over the last 5 years. Saying that is ignorant. Our problem with the draft has been we haven't had a lot of picks because we kept trading them away. The guys we have drafted for the most part have been excellent.

Second, to the OP what are you saying here? That since we've made mistakes with drafting WR's that we should not draft another one? I'm sorry but with that approach why even play football? We have to have the strength and belief in ourselves that as an organization we have the ability to learn from our mistakes. Look at Detroit over the past few years. They've drafted WR after WR in round one. Sure they've made some mistakes but now have a very scary tandem of WR's that are budding stars in the league. They didn't make a mistake by picking WR's after they picked one that failed. Its normal for WR's to fail in the NFL, it goes with the territoriy.

The Skins should be picking BPA in rounds 1 and 2 and then draft for need in later rounds. If the BPA is a WR then I hope we pick them.

[Spartacus87]

Who did we have at LG before him ? Having Kendell there gives you the opportunity to feed someone like Albert into the line gradually .

The same can be said for having Daniels and Griffin on the D line, Springs at CB, Doughety at S ( although I would leave the safeties as are) . The only place you cold argue we wouldnt have someone as a tutor is at WR, BUT i still don't want to draft someone in the 1st round and would rather get a Marcus Monk in the 5th not because of the history of drafting WRs is poor, but the crop of WR's is poor and you would get bigger bang for your buck elsewhere Your logic on drafting o-line has been thoroughly dismantled by this point, but I'd also like to add that in the event a team drafts a 1st round o-linemen, more often than not they're expeced to see major playing time their first year, which is what would happen with Albert. He wouldn't be fed into the line gradually; he'd take Kendall's job in training camp and Kendall would become excellent depth for a year.