Calling TR1...

[Dch028]

This is my first post here. I looked around and saw that TR1 seems to be a well respected member of this forum, so I wanted to ask him a few questions. Im curious to get an accual unbiased opinion you cant get from the media, and I think I found the man for the job.

TR1:

What do you think of Jason Campbell?

What do you think of Tony Romo?

Who is better now, and who has the most upside?

I hope I can get a straight opinion because I cant get it from the ESPN man love.

[BigMike619]

oh the can of worms you just opened. worms with a gun for a mouth and knives for teeth.

I smell a BIG debate here...let me get my debating hat on!!

[coolbeans]

well respected

Thanks, that made damn near spit coke all over my monitor.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Here goes.

1. Almost as good as Quincy Carter was.

2. He's great. Top 5 QB for at least a decade.

3. Romo by a mile, Romo by 2 miles.

[Dch028]

Sorry but I wanted TR1 to answer.

[DWinzit]

Sounds like a call out thread.

I'm sure tr1 and the mods would tell you call out threads are against the rules and The Stadium is the correct location for discussions on Jason Campbell.

[BigMike619]

Thanks, that made damn near spit coke all over my monitor.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Here goes.

1. Almost as good as Quincy Carter was.

2. He's great. Top 5 QB for at least a decade.

3. Romo by a mile, Romo by 2 miles.

Quincy Carter who's tongue was too big for his own mouth? Yeah, how did that work out for your team?

Top 5 of the decade? :laugh:

You have had a nice gulp of that Dallass fool-aid tonight huh :cheers:

I dont know if this was a call out thread. the kid might just be really interested in knowing.

[OWUeagleMD]

Thanks, that made damn near spit coke all over my monitor.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Here goes.

1. Almost as good as Quincy Carter was.

2. He's great. Top 5 QB for at least a decade.

3. Romo by a mile, Romo by 2 miles.

Absurd. Not even in your wet dreams is this true.

More realistically...

1. Campbell's a promising young player who's been dealt a rough hand early on in his career. In the right system, there's no reason to believe he can't be a very effective QB. Best case scenario, Ben Roethlisberger. Worst case scenario, he hovers where he's been the last two years, which makes him a middle of the road QB.

2. An athletic QB who's at his best when improvising and taking advantage of broken situations. Who knows how much of his success can be attributed to a very good supporting cast, but two straight late season swoons is too much to ignore. Top 5 for a decade? That would put him in Hall of Fame company. Get back to reality.

3. Romo's currently a better player. It shouldn't surprise anyone if Campbell becomes a better player within the next three years.

[Terence Newman 41]

Tr1, the most famous internet poster ... EVER!

[TK]

Sounds like a call out thread.

I'm sure tr1 and the mods would tell you call out threads are against the rules and The Stadium is the correct location for discussions on Jason Campbell.
Sounds like you don't know what a call out thread as defined in the rules.

This thread is fine.

[BigMike619]

Sounds like you don't know what a call out thread as defined in the rules.

This thread is fine.

BOOOM!!!!

[DWinzit]

Sounds like you don't know what a call out thread as defined in the rules.

This thread is fine.Although the title exudes call out thread and later post states we isn't looking for any other poster to respond, you are correct it is not a personal attack.

[2006Skins]

Sounds like you don't know what a call out thread as defined in the rules.

This thread is fine.

:owned:


But on track, even though my opinion is not wanted I'll give it :silly:

JC is a good young qb with the potential to be great

Romo is good, but overhyped by the Cowboys loving media. See games without TO.

Right now Romo is better, but time will tell who will be better. This will be a great fun rivalry to watch for hopeufully years to come.

[elkabong82]

Thanks, that made damn near spit coke all over my monitor.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Here goes.

1. Almost as good as Quincy Carter was.

2. He's great. Top 5 QB for at least a decade.

3. Romo by a mile, Romo by 2 miles.

1. Did Quincy Carter put up 348 yds 2TDs against you guys in your house, and come within one play of beating you?

2. Top 5 QBs done get outshone end of the season by a 36 year-old QB who hasn't started in a decade

3. Tony Romo is better right now, but Jason Campbell has more natural ability, enough so he'll surpass Romo in a season, maybe two.

BTW do you appreciate the irony of trying to insult our QB by insulting your former QB?

[coolbeans]

1. Did Quincy Carter put up 348 yds 2TDs against you guys in your house, and come within one play of beating you?

2. Top 5 QBs done get outshone end of the season by a 36 year-old QB who hasn't started in a decade

3. Tony Romo is better right now, but Jason Campbell has more natural ability, enough so he'll surpass Romo in a season, maybe two.

BTW do you appreciate the irony of trying to insult our QB by insulting your former QB?

Has Campbell ever led his pro team to a 10-6 record and playoff appearance? You can believe whatever you want, to me Campbell is no better than Carter and never will be. A carreer backup came in and did in a few games what Campbell couldn't for 2 years.

[BigMike619]

Has Campbell ever led his pro team to a 10-6 record and playoff appearance? You can believe whatever you want, to me Campbell is no better than Carter and never will be. A carreer backup came in and did in a few games what Campbell couldn't for 2 years.

Man, any credit you may have had you just lost with the comparison to "Ol Toungey".

Seriously man, just stop it now while you have the chance.

[coolbeans]

Man, any credit you may have had you just lost with the comparison to "Ol Toungey".

Seriously man, just stop it now while you have the chance.

When Campbell quits looking like a Quincy Carter clone and accomplishes more than Carter did, then I'll stop comparing the two. Right now, they are the same player to me. I don't need any credit from you to see the obvious!

[BigMike619]

When Campbell quits looking like a Quincy Carter clone and accomplishes more than Carter did, then I'll stop comparing the two. Right now, they are the same player to me. I don't need any credit from you to see the obvious!

You see the obvious like Stevie Wonder sees period..:cheers:

[TheREALJBird]

Has Campbell ever led his pro team to a 10-6 record and playoff appearance? You can believe whatever you want, to me Campbell is no better than Carter and never will be. A carreer backup came in and did in a few games what Campbell couldn't for 2 years.

Has Romo not collapsed late in an NFL season? Has Romo lead his team to a playoff win?

Alright then.

[coolbeans]

I see the obvious like when the skins became a much better team the instant Campbell dislocated his kneecap. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if he is not the starter come week 1 but I hope he is.

[Tom [Giants fan]]

It is absurd though thinking tr1 would give unbiased opinions on those topics. :D

[Walking Deadman]

I see the obvious like when the skins became a much better team the instant Campbell dislocated his kneecap. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if he is not the starter come week 1 but I hope he is.

How's Tony Simpson doing for ya?
Still haven't won a playoff game with him have you?

[BigMike619]

I see the obvious like when the skins became a much better team the instant Campbell dislocated his kneecap. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if he is not the starter come week 1 but I hope he is.

aaah and out come the flames...

sure, they didnt rally around the fact that Sean had just passed and his Dad asked them to win out and make the playoffs for Sean. Had nothing to do with that. Or the fact that Collins had a great knowledge of Al Saunders' offense.

That couldnt be it at all.

Look man, if you want to just turn this thread into an insult contest where you spout out random BS about our players then you should just say so.

[BigMike619]

']It is absurd though thinking tr1 would give unbiased opinions on those topics. :D

what I find funnier is that this thread has gone 2 pages and he hasnt even responded once yet :laugh:

[Number5]

:munchout: :40oz: :welcome:


That says enough....

[elkabong82]

Has Campbell ever led his pro team to a 10-6 record and playoff appearance? You can believe whatever you want, to me Campbell is no better than Carter and never will be. A carreer backup came in and did in a few games what Campbell couldn't for 2 years.

You mean win 4 games? Yeah Campbell's done that already. And none of your biased opinion can change the fact none of us will ever know whether or not Campbell would have won those 4 games. Your jaded assumptions won't change any of that either.

Go ahead and believe JC is Quincy Carter, you obviously don't care about integrity or being taken seriously making ludicrous statements like that.

Campbell hasn't led the team to the playoffs on his own yet, but also hasn't choked at the end of the season and in the very first playoff game 2 years in a row. He hasn't led his team to be the only #1 seed in the NFC to lose their first playoff game with homefield advantage.

[VCDefectors]

Aside from the tr1 callout issue, I think it is a little premature to have this debate. I say that because it's difficult to assess what it is that you have in a QB until they've played 2-3 seasons as a starter. I think we will know more about both of them after this season and a better judgment can be made at that time.

If we are going off of the evidence presented so far, there's no question that Romo is further down the development line. He makes better decisions and has had better overall production so far. But I do think Jason Campbell is a more physically gifted player. If Campbell continues to develop the mental aspect of his game and gets into an offensive scheme that plays to his strengths, he has All-Pro potential.

That's my thoughts on it, anyway.

[elkabong82]

When Campbell quits looking like a Quincy Carter clone and accomplishes more than Carter did, then I'll stop comparing the two. Right now, they are the same player to me. I don't need any credit from you to see the obvious!

And nothing Romo's done convinces me he isn't another Culpepper. Fumbling problem, runs around a lot, and completely relies on one of the best receivers in the league to bail him out.

[coolbeans]

And nothing Romo's done convinces me he isn't another Culpepper. Fumbling problem, runs around a lot, and completely relies on one of the best receivers in the league to bail him out.

Thats fine with me. You are entitled to your opinion just as I am entitled to my opinion of Campbell. I already conceded i would stop all comparisons as soon as Campbell proved he is better than Carter was. I just don't think he has done that yet. I see a player that has just as much chance to be a bust as he does be a solid starter. If he improves, I'll be glad to aknowledge it.

[skinsn24]

Thats fine with me. You are entitled to your opinion just as I am entitled to my opinion of Campbell. I already conceded i would stop all comparisons as soon as Campbell proved he is better than Carter was. I just don't think he has done that yet. I see a player that has just as much chance to be a bust as he does be a solid starter. If he improves, I'll be glad to aknowledge it.

Now while i agree Campbell is no star and must still prove his worth as a few good games dont make you a star, there is a major difference between him and Starter.

Starter never had the ability to become a star, he wasnt going to start at his own college, so he left for the draft.

Jason on the other hand has that potential and was a proven winner in college.:2cents:

[TK]

Calling TR1...

He's got caller ID.

Sorry but I wanted TR1 to answer.
Try *67.

[praise_gibbs]

:rotflmao: :laugh:

[BigDFan5]

']It is absurd though thinking tr1 would give unbiased opinions on those topics. :D


Hell its absurd thinking tr1 would answer direct questions period lol

[ptr77]

How about everyone gives Campbell the five years everyone gave Romo? People seem to forget campbell has had a different offensive coordinator basically every year since he left high school and he did not get to sit on the bench for over 3 years learning the pro game. I think in two years time we can say whether campbell is where he should be. Right now he is lagging far behind but he has shown all the skills to be a good player. QB prospects take a long time to judge, Phil simms, elway, and many others did not have early or instant success. Romo only started to shine after learning for 3 years and being surrounded by probowlers. I am not going to lie though, i would expect romo to be the better QB over their careers.

[TheREALJBird]

Aside from the tr1 callout issue, I think it is a little premature to have this debate. I say that because it's difficult to assess what it is that you have in a QB until they've played 2-3 seasons as a starter. I think we will know more about both of them after this season and a better judgment can be made at that time.

If we are going off of the evidence presented so far, there's no question that Romo is further down the development line. He makes better decisions and has had better overall production so far. But I do think Jason Campbell is a more physically gifted player. If Campbell continues to develop the mental aspect of his game and gets into an offensive scheme that plays to his strengths, he has All-Pro potential.

That's my thoughts on it, anyway.

This guy knows the deal. Well put

[slogriff]

And nothing Romo's done convinces me he isn't another Culpepper. Fumbling problem, runs around a lot, and completely relies on one of the best receivers in the league to bail him out.

If Romo has a fumbling problem than JC has a fumbling dilemma.

Romo-10 fumbles/520 pass att & lost just 2! (one of the lowest numbers in the
league)

JC----13 fumbles/417 pass att & lost 8 (lead the entire NFL!)

I don't thing "runs around a lot" is such a bad thing when it comes to Romo. I believe his passer rating was higher when he goes outside the pocket. Most teams would love for him to stay w/in the tackles.

As far as actually running the ball, JC carried the ball more often than Romo
36 vs 31 carries.

[BigMike619]

If Romo has a fumbling problem than JC has a fumbling dilemma.

Romo-10 fumbles/520 pass att & lost just 2! (one of the lowest numbers in the
league)

JC----13 fumbles/417 pass att & lost 8 (lead the entire NFL!)

I don't thing "runs around a lot" is such a bad thing when it comes to Romo. I believe his passer rating was higher when he goes outside the pocket. Most teams would love for him to stay w/in the tackles.

As far as actually running the ball, JC carried the ball more often than Romo
36 vs 31 carries.

I still dont like the comparisons but I thnk you can agree that he's better then that trainwreck Carter was..

[Jumbo]

Anybody making book on just who the OP was last time around? ;)

Not a call-out , just as 21 notes, but I do detect a little special nature to the "Hi, I just landed" choice of a "first" thread. :laugh:


http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s107/jumboskins/main-1.jpg

[Tom [Giants fan]]

what I find funnier is that this thread has gone 2 pages and he hasn't even responded once yet :laugh:


He is probably reading this whole thread and laughing.

[elkabong82]

If Romo has a fumbling problem than JC has a fumbling dilemma.

Romo-10 fumbles/520 pass att & lost just 2! (one of the lowest numbers in the
league)

JC----13 fumbles/417 pass att & lost 8 (lead the entire NFL!)

I don't thing "runs around a lot" is such a bad thing when it comes to Romo. I believe his passer rating was higher when he goes outside the pocket. Most teams would love for him to stay w/in the tackles.

As far as actually running the ball, JC carried the ball more often than Romo
36 vs 31 carries.

JC had 3 more fumbles, behind an injury-depleted O-line, Romo had 3 less behind a much healthier O-line. The problems with our O-line because of injuries was more than apparent, in fact it's why JC got injured. That's no mystery so don't try and pretend otherwise.

2006 JC only had 1 fumble behind a healthy O-line, Romo had 9. Romo only lost 3 of those, and I doubt if he keeps the fumbling problem up his lucky streak of the ball bouncing back the right way will continue. Odds are against it.

[HeHateMe]

How about everyone gives Campbell the five years everyone gave Romo? People seem to forget campbell has had a different offensive coordinator basically every year since he left high school and he did not get to sit on the bench for over 3 years learning the pro game. I think in two years time we can say whether campbell is where he should be. Right now he is lagging far behind but he has shown all the skills to be a good player. QB prospects take a long time to judge, Phil simms, elway, and many others did not have early or instant success. Romo only started to shine after learning for 3 years and being surrounded by probowlers. I am not going to lie though, i would expect romo to be the better QB over their careers.

Care to factor in that Campbell was a first round pick and Romo was undrafted?

Nah, of course not.

[VCDefectors]

Anybody making book on just who the OP was last time around? ;)

Not a call-out , just as 21 notes, but I do detect a little special nature to the "Hi, I just landed" choice of a "first" thread. :laugh:


http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s107/jumboskins/main-1.jpg

My bet is that it is one of Mr. ATN's ghosts from Christmas' past. Like that WeOwnYou fellow that I was once accused of being.

[BigMike619]

Care to factor in that Campbell was a first round pick and Romo was undrafted?

Nah, of course not.

only if yu care to factor in that Romo has won the exact same playoff games as Campbell in more years. ;)

Isnt that what this should all come down to?

[tr1]

Anybody making book on just who the OP was last time around? ;)

Not a call-out , just as 21 notes, but I do detect a little special nature to the "Hi, I just landed" choice of a "first" thread. :laugh:


http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s107/jumboskins/main-1.jpg

I don't do WeOwnYou... :laugh:

[HeHateMe]

only if yu care to factor in that Romo has won the exact same playoff games as Campbell in more years. ;)

Isnt that what this should all come down to?

If success in the postseason is all the matters, Troy Aikman is a top 3 QB all time.

You willing to state that?

[BigMike619]

If success in the postseason is all the matters, Troy Aikman is a top 3 QB all time.

You willing to state that?


First off I thought we were talking current QBs and even closer between Romo and Campbell...but even so, no.

Bradshaw
Montana
Brady ;)

[HeHateMe]

First off I thought we were talking current QBs and even closer between Romo and Campbell...but even so, no.

Bradshaw
Montana
Brady ;)

Fine, but then according to this, Aikman is better than Marino, Elway and Favre. :)

[bubba9497]

First off I thought we were talking current QBs and even closer between Romo and Campbell...but even so, no.

Bradshaw
Montana
Brady ;)

:owned:

if you count pre-SB... Otto Graham, Bart Starr as well

[BigMike619]

Fine, but then according to this, Aikman is better than Marino, Elway and Favre. :)

you're barking up the wrong tree if you think I will EVER back up Marino. I consider him the Barry Bonds of the NFL. Great in the regular season but falls apart in the post.

Never liked him.

Elway never had the supporting cast that Aikman did but rings get ya more respect.

Favre is my man...I cant hate against him. All I can say is if he had Emmitt, Moose, Cracky and Harper then he might have gotten more then 1. He deserved 5.

**** man, according to your logic then Theissmann is better then Favre and Marino huh. Rypien is better then all other QBs from Dallass except Staubach and Aikman.

We can do this..

[bubba9497]

Anybody making book on just who the OP was last time around? ;)

Not a call-out , just as 21 notes, but I do detect a little special nature to the "Hi, I just landed" choice of a "first" thread. :laugh:


http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s107/jumboskins/main-1.jpg




Jerimiah "WeOwnU" Johnson?

[bubba9497]

Elway never had the supporting cast that Aikman did but rings get ya more respect.


Elway went to 5 SB, so in playoff success rankings... he was better than Aikman, starting in 7 more games in the playoffs, and had more wins :)

[PC84]

First off I thought we were talking current QBs and even closer between Romo and Campbell...but even so, no.

Bradshaw
Montana
Brady ;)

Brady did something Aikman never did...Lost a Super Bowltherefore...Aikman>Brady in terms of post season success.

[PC84]

Elway went to 5 SB, so in playoff success rankings... he was better than Aikman, starting in 7 more games in the playoffs, and had more wins :)

Since when is getting to a Superbowl what you're measured on? That's like saying Romo is better than Campbell because he got to the playoffs.

[Dch028]

Well I guess he isnt going to answer. Anyone else want to try to answer my three questions?? Bubba? PC?

[slogriff]

JC had 3 more fumbles, behind an injury-depleted O-line, Romo had 3 less behind a much healthier O-line. The problems with our O-line because of injuries was more than apparent, in fact it's why JC got injured. That's no mystery so don't try and pretend otherwise.

2006 JC only had 1 fumble behind a healthy O-line, Romo had 9. Romo only lost 3 of those, and I doubt if he keeps the fumbling problem up his lucky streak of the ball bouncing back the right way will continue. Odds are against it.

You point about the quality of the Oline is quite valid.

Any fumble is a problem but to say he has a fumbling problem requires his numbers to be in context with other qbs. There are numerous qbs with comparable or more fumbles.

Kitna 17
JC 13
E. Manning 13
Warner 12
Cutler 11
Rivers 11
V. Young 10
Romo 10
Farve 9
Roethlisberger 9
Brees 9
McNabb 9
Hasselbeck 9

We could look at quality of oline, fumbles/sack & rush atts, fumbles/pass att, etc. Big picture is I don't think he has a big fumbling problem. I have more concerns with his INTs than fumbles.

[Riggo#44]

When Campbell quits looking like a Quincy Carter clone and accomplishes more than Carter did, then I'll stop comparing the two. Right now, they are the same player to me. I don't need any credit from you to see the obvious!

Here you go chief:

Campbell last year:

250/417 60% Comp. 2700 yards, 12 TD, 11 INT in 13 games.
36 rush 185 yrds, 1 TD
Does not have a crack habit.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CampJa00.htm

Carter's second year:

in 7 games:
125/221 1225 yards, 7 TD 8 INT

Carter's third year:
16 games:
292/505 57.8% Comp. 3302 yards, 17 TD 21 INTs.

Carters 4th year (after being kicked out of Cowboys camp for crack-habit):
35/58 60.3% Comp 498, 3 TD 1 Int. Wow he actually compelted 60% of his passes and threw more TDs then INTs. Good work Quincy.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CartQu00.htm


So, Campbell is heading into his 4th year is the unquestioned starter. Has displayed the capability of playing well, was on pace for a 3300 yard 15 TD/13 INT season with a depleted, beat-up unreliable receiver corps. Has show the ability to make significantly smart decisions with not just the ball but with life in general considering he STILL DOESN'T HAVE A CRACK HABIT!

Seriously I love the Cowboys fans compare Campbell to Carter. It cracks me up b/c it is completely invalid and completely insane. The ONLY common thread is they are both black and wear 17. Is that it Coolbeans? You want to lump Doug Williams in there too?

[Lloyds' Mongolian Beef]

What do you think of Jason Campbell?
Jason Campbell is a quarterback who has all the tools to be a franchise NFL quarterback.

What do you think of Tony Romo?
Tony Romo will never amount to anything. That's obvious.

Who is better now, and who has the most upside?
Campbell and Campbell. Romo only has a downside. His production has been a fluke. He will fade away the same way he has at the end of the last two seasons.

[illone]

I still can't figure out why Cowboys fans are so excited about Romo.

He hasn't done anything in his career to warrant all the man love he gets from everyone, yet somehow people think he's so much better than other players who are still developing.

So far he's had a decent few games in 06 with a playoff collapse followed up with another decent few games in 07 and another collapse in the playoffs.

Romo and Campbell are at different stages of their careers not to mention have faced much different circumstances.

Another thing you Cowboys fans should worry about is the lack of a running game against the Redskins. 1 yard rushing is a nice way to close out the season, though!

[coolbeans]

Here you go chief:

Campbell last year:

250/417 60% Comp. 2700 yards, 12 TD, 11 INT in 13 games.
36 rush 185 yrds, 1 TD
Does not have a crack habit.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CampJa00.htm

Carter's second year:

in 7 games:
125/221 1225 yards, 7 TD 8 INT

Carter's third year:
16 games:
292/505 57.8% Comp. 3302 yards, 17 TD 21 INTs.

Carters 4th year (after being kicked out of Cowboys camp for crack-habit):
35/58 60.3% Comp 498, 3 TD 1 Int. Wow he actually compelted 60% of his passes and threw more TDs then INTs. Good work Quincy.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CartQu00.htm


So, Campbell is heading into his 4th year is the unquestioned starter. Has displayed the capability of playing well, was on pace for a 3300 yard 15 TD/13 INT season with a depleted, beat-up unreliable receiver corps. Has show the ability to make significantly smart decisions with not just the ball but with life in general considering he STILL DOESN'T HAVE A CRACK HABIT!

Seriously I love the Cowboys fans compare Campbell to Carter. It cracks me up b/c it is completely invalid and completely insane. The ONLY common thread is they are both black and wear 17. Is that it Coolbeans? You want to lump Doug Williams in there too?

Nope, its just that when I watch Campbell play he reminds me of Carter. They both have good arms but are somewhat inaccurate. They both made the occasional good/great play but have no consistancy throughout an entire game or from week to week. Thats the truth of the matter. I know its hurts skins fans and they have a hard time admitting it but Campbell has just as much chance at this point to be a bust as he does to be a quality starter for many years. I've already said twice before that I will have no problem giving him his props when and if he ever becomes a good QB. Up until this point, he has not been that and reminds me of Carter everytime I see him play. Thats my opinion, you don't have to agree and you won't change my mind. Only Campbell actually playing better on a consistant basis will do that.

[Riggo#44]

Nope, its just that when I watch Campbell play he reminds me of Carter. They both have good arms but are somewhat inaccurate. They both made the occasional good/great play but have no consistancy throughout an entire game or from week to week. Thats the truth of the matter. I know its hurts skins fans and they have a hard time admitting it but Campbell has just as much chance at this point to be a bust as he does to be a quality starter for many years. I've already said twice before that I will have no problem giving him his props when and if he ever becomes a good QB. Up until this point, he has not been that and reminds me of Carter everytime I see him play. Thats my opinion, you don't have to agree and you won't change my mind. Only Campbell actually playing better on a consistant basis will do that.

Wow what a resounding argument...boy you really put me in my place (even though I just showed you that Campbell is more accurate, less turnover prone and does not ahve a crack habit) Wow is my face red! Your opinion of him is not tainted in anyway b/c he plays for the Redskins either, now does it?

:rolleyes:

[mwj473]

Just putting some stats out there for the 1st 20 starts of each QB's career, hope it formats correctly:

Comp Att % Yards TD INT Sacks Fumbles W-L
Carter 300 548 54.7 3714 16 20 42 14 10-10
Campbell 360 624 57.7 3997 22 17 28 14 8-12
Romo 416 634 65.6 5489 43 22 32 14 15-5


I am very surprised to see that Romo has attempted only 10 more passes over their 1st 20 starts.

[Tweedr01]

Nope, its just that when I watch Campbell play he reminds me of Carter. They both have good arms but are somewhat inaccurate. They both made the occasional good/great play but have no consistancy throughout an entire game or from week to week. Thats the truth of the matter. I know its hurts skins fans and they have a hard time admitting it but Campbell has just as much chance at this point to be a bust as he does to be a quality starter for many years. I've already said twice before that I will have no problem giving him his props when and if he ever becomes a good QB. Up until this point, he has not been that and reminds me of Carter everytime I see him play. Thats my opinion, you don't have to agree and you won't change my mind. Only Campbell actually playing better on a consistant basis will do that.

Yeah and Romo is Gus Frerrotte, always has a stupid look on his face, and has won just as many playoff games...great comparison huh smart guy

[coolbeans]

Wow what a resounding argument...boy you really put me in my place (even though I just showed you that Campbell is more accurate, less turnover prone and does not ahve a crack habit) Wow is my face red! Your opinion of him is not tainted in anyway b/c he plays for the Redskins either, now does it?

:rolleyes:

Actually, when you look at their numbers, they look even more identical as players then I had thought.

[BigMike619]

Actually, when you look at their numbers, they look even more identical as players then I had thought.

Your shtick is getting old and to anyone who actually took you serious before I am sure they won't make that mistake again.

You are clearly just being a Puke fan thru and thru and nobody will respect you. And what else is funny is that you haven't had ONE person come to your defense. Usually when someone says something that carries ANY weight somebody will back them up. You are totally solo here and will most likely stay that way.

[elkabong82]

You point about the quality of the Oline is quite valid.

Any fumble is a problem but to say he has a fumbling problem requires his numbers to be in context with other qbs. There are numerous qbs with comparable or more fumbles.

Kitna 17
JC 13
E. Manning 13
Warner 12
Cutler 11
Rivers 11
V. Young 10
Romo 10
Farve 9
Roethlisberger 9
Brees 9
McNabb 9
Hasselbeck 9

We could look at quality of oline, fumbles/sack & rush atts, fumbles/pass att, etc. Big picture is I don't think he has a big fumbling problem. I have more concerns with his INTs than fumbles.

Only 2 or so of the guys you listed, besides Romo, didn't have O-line problems in '07. 9 of the 13 QBs on your list had 8 or less fumbles the previous season. 6 of the 13 were in the top 10 most sacked QBs list in '07.

You also have to look at how many of the fumbles they lost, cuz I pointed out Romo's lucky streak of fumbles bouncing back his way, odds are, won't continue. Of that list, only 2 QBs, Favre and Brees, had less fumbles per game than Romo, and the same 2 QBs were the only ones to have less sacks per game than Romo. Gee, I wonder if their is a correlation between O-line injuries, sacks, and fumbles?

For their total career numbers, Romo and Young are the only ones whose % of fumbles lost is below 32%. Romo is the lowest at 26%, then Young at 27%. 8 of the 13 QBs on your list have fumble lost % of 40% or higher. 10 are 35% or higher. This is why I initially brought up the fact about injuries to the O-line and pointed out Romo's inordinant luck with recovering fumbles thus far. The stats show luck has been with Romo on not losing all those fumbles, and the stats also show that lucky streak isn't going to last.

[Riggo#44]

Actually, when you look at their numbers, they look even more identical as players then I had thought.

You mean b/c they are both black and wear 17?

[elkabong82]

Actually, when you look at their numbers, they look even more identical as players then I had thought.

And let's see Romo's 1st two seasons starting, and Culpepper's:

Romo: 555 of 857 64.8% 7114 yds 8.3 avg 55 TDs 32 INTs 45 sck 19 fum 26 g
Culp.: 532 of 840 63.3% 6549 yds 7.8 avg 47 TDs 29 INTs 67 sck 27 fum 27 g

Poor Culpepper has lost 40% of his career fumbles, and has been sacked a lot more, too bad he can't be as lucky as Romo in that department.

Both players relied on their star WR to do the work for them.

[Riggo#44]

Both players relied on their star WR to do the work for them.

And neither of them could read a defense...

[BigDFan5]

It is unfair to Campbell to even compare him to Romo, Campbell is not in the same league

[BigMike619]

It is unfair to Campbell to even compare him to Romo, Campbell is not in the same league

They both have the same amount of playoff wins.

But Romo does have him in one category: Games with 5 INTs. :thumbsup:

[Badgerrocks]

It is unfair to Campbell to even compare him to Romo, Campbell is not in the same league

Really? I thought they both played in the NFL.

[slogriff]

But Romo does have him in one category: Games with 5 INTs. :thumbsup:

But JC does have him in one category: Games with 3 lost fumbles. :thumbsup: (http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=81#)

(Already had fumbling numbers from earlier posts in this thread)

[BigMike619]

But JC does have him in one category: Games with 3 lost fumbles. :thumbsup: (http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=81#)

(Already had fumbling numbers from earlier posts in this thread)

Romo's got one on him too then. Nick Lachey's sloppy seconds ;)

[SteveFromYellowstone]

Romo is the better quarterback so far. Jason has the potential to be very good, but we'll see what happens this upcoming season. Once we get our reciever situation settled, I expect him to do well. Romo is good, we can't deny that.

[slogriff]

Romo's got one on him too then. Nick Lachey's sloppy seconds ;)

sign me up for 3rds! :)

[Boss_Hogg]

How good would Romo be without his star WR?

Jason had to work with an injury-ridden O-line and WR core. I think he will be better this year...or atleast I hope.

Puke fans should worry more about Jessica Simpson. If the rumors about her impending marriage to Romo are true.

[BigMike619]

sign me up for 3rds! :)

actually he is third..you would be fourth.

:silly:

[slogriff]

Only 2 or so of the guys you listed, besides Romo, didn't have O-line problems in '07. 9 of the 13 QBs on your list had 8 or less fumbles the previous season. 6 of the 13 were in the top 10 most sacked QBs list in '07.

You also have to look at how many of the fumbles they lost, cuz I pointed out Romo's lucky streak of fumbles bouncing back his way, odds are, won't continue. Of that list, only 2 QBs, Favre and Brees, had less fumbles per game than Romo, and the same 2 QBs were the only ones to have less sacks per game than Romo. Gee, I wonder if their is a correlation between O-line injuries, sacks, and fumbles?

For their total career numbers, Romo and Young are the only ones whose % of fumbles lost is below 32%. Romo is the lowest at 26%, then Young at 27%. 8 of the 13 QBs on your list have fumble lost % of 40% or higher. 10 are 35% or higher. This is why I initially brought up the fact about injuries to the O-line and pointed out Romo's inordinant luck with recovering fumbles thus far. The stats show luck has been with Romo on not losing all those fumbles, and the stats also show that lucky streak isn't going to last.

Thanks for the well researched response.

Of course the qbs listed are in the top in most sacked. Most qb fumbles aren't from just dropping the ball or fumbling while running downfield. If looking at having a fumbling problem it would seem you would look at how often they cough it up when they get sacked or sacked + rushing attempts (better yet, maybe how many times they get hit but Im not going to try and work that out).

Romo 10 fumbles
24 sacks= 40% (#7 of 13 listed)
55 sacks + carries = 18% (4th best)

JC 13 fumbles
21 sacks= 62% (highest % on list)
57 sacks + carries = 23% (T8th with Brees & Manning)

My point is to not try and say JC has a problem fumbling but to say it isn't a big problem for Romo. I would contend that numbers tend to support he doesn't have a major problem holding on to the ball.

Without analyzing where he fumbled (in the tackles, downfield, etc) and how many Cowboys were in the vicinity and who recovered them, I have no idea why Romo has not lost a higher % of fumbles.

[BigMike619]

Thanks for the well researched response.

Of course the qbs listed are in the top in most sacked. Most qb fumbles aren't from just dropping the ball or fumbling while running downfield. If looking at having a fumbling problem it would seem you would look at how often they cough it up when they get sacked or sacked + rushing attempts (better yet, maybe how many times they get hit but Im not going to try and work that out).

Romo 10 fumbles
24 sacks= 40% (#7 of 13 listed)
55 sacks + carries = 18% (4th best)

JC 13 fumbles
21 sacks= 62% (highest % on list)
57 sacks + carries = 23% (T8th with Brees & Manning)

My point is to not try and say JC has a problem fumbling but to say it isn't a big problem for Romo. I would contend that numbers tend to support he doesn't have a major problem holding on to the ball.

Without analyzing where he fumbled (in the tackles, downfield, etc) and how many Cowboys were in the vicinity and who recovered them, I have no idea why Romo has not lost a higher % of fumbles.

Are Groude's bad long snaps considered fumbles?

[PC84]

Jason Campbell has done nothing to merit all the love he gets on this site, that is, if you don't take into account his "poise".

[BigMike619]

Jason Campbell has done nothing to merit all the love he gets on this site, that is, if you don't take into account his "poise".

Ok, so what has Romo accomplished that is SO great?

edit: 1, they are close enough in numbers to be compared and go back and forth. 2, this is a Redskins site man. What do you think we are going to do with our QB?

[PC84]

Ok, so what has Romo accomplished that is SO great?

Won an NFC East championship, won 13 games, Set the Cowboy's record for most TD passes in a season, been to the playoff twice, played better than his 30 somethiing year old back up. Alot more than Campbell has done. And if you say that he choked in the playoffs twice, then you didn't watch the Giants game, it was the oline, Patrick Crayton and Anthony Henry that lost it for them.

[slogriff]

Are Groude's bad long snaps considered fumbles?

The primary Gurode blowup was the 1st skins game. He was credited for 2 lost fumbles and the one that bounced off Romo's grill when he wasn't looking was a Romo fumble and J.Jones recovery for a couple yard loss.

[BigMike619]

Won an NFC East championship, won 13 games, Set the Cowboy's record for most TD passes in a season, been to the playoff twice, played better than his 30 somethiing year old back up. Alot more than Campbell has done. And if you say that he choked in the playoffs twice, then you didn't watch the Giants game, it was the oline, Patrick Crayton and Anthony Henry that lost it for them.

NFC East championship? bwaaaaaahahhahaha..then you need to call McNabb a better QB then Romo. Yeah, put your stock into winning the NFC east and NOT a playoff game. :doh:

You are going to sit here and whine to a Redskins fan about Oline? man are you new to this board and the NFL?

[Riggo#44]

Won an NFC East championship, won 13 games, Set the Cowboy's record for most TD passes in a season, been to the playoff twice, played better than his 30 somethiing year old back up. Alot more than Campbell has done. And if you say that he choked in the playoffs twice, then you didn't watch the Giants game, it was the oline, Patrick Crayton and Anthony Henry that lost it for them.

Oh I see, so Romo's supporting cast let him down...so when Campbell was playing, his supporting cast was just fine and it was all his fault.

[PC84]

NFC East championship? bwaaaaaahahhahaha..then you need to call McNabb a better QB then Romo. Yeah, put your stock into winning the NFC east and NOT a playoff game. :doh:

You are going to sit here and whine to a Redskins fan about Oline? man are you new to this board and the NFL?

I told you what Romo has accomplished...now what has Campbell done? Anything better than Romo?

[BigMike619]

I told you what Romo has accomplished...now what has Campbell done? Anything better than Romo?

you really call that something to hang your hat on? You won the NFC East and then lost in the first round of the playoffs. AT HOME!!

And then the stuff with crying about Crayton and your O-line made me laugh so hard I stopped taking you serious.

Is this the part where you come with something real or should I just keep laughing? :laugh:

[Riggo#44]

I told you what Romo has accomplished...now what has Campbell done? Anything better than Romo?

Ah, the futile grasping at straws Cowboys fans have become these days...with still nary a playoff win in 12 years, they are not disappointed in Romo's seemingly yearly reformation from princess to pumpkin when the clock strikes midnight Dec. 1, but rather ALREADY making excuses for their failures.

[BigMike619]

To all other Boys fans that are reading this, I am not bashing Romo but merely clowning this guy who is stepping way out of the pocket with this one.

[VA Cowboy fan]

I told you what Romo has accomplished...now what has Campbell done? Anything better than Romo?

I am not going to get to involved in this post but I would like to see a response and answer from Big Mike since he has danced around this question already.....

[BigMike619]

I am not going to get to involved in this post but I would like to see a response and answer from Big Mike since he has danced around this question already.....


I have responded there Mr "im not going to get involved". If ALL you are counting is a 13 winning game season and NO playoff wins then you can have it. We are obviously trying to do a little more.

But hey, congrats on winning 13 games and losing at home. You should put that on your resume of WHY the boys are so good.

danced around..dude get a grip. I dont need to dance around anything asked of me on here. I am one of the most honest and will come out and say it if it's true.

[ptr77]

Care to factor in that Campbell was a first round pick and Romo was undrafted?

Nah, of course not.


My point was that QBs take time to develop, even supposedly talented first rounders. Draft status means little imo, players need time to develop. (phillip rivers, romo, brady, derek burgess, favre, elway, simms etc...) Romo was given time to develop and fell into a great situation. He is playing well and making the most of it. Campbell has never had continuity and has not played as well as Romo (not gonna dispute that) with much less time to develop. I'm just being a realist.

[mwj473]

I have responded there Mr "im not going to get involved". If ALL you are counting is a 13 winning game season and NO playoff wins then you can have it. We are obviously trying to do a little more.

But hey, congrats on winning 13 games and losing at home. You should put that on your resume of WHY the boys are so good.

danced around..dude get a grip. I dont need to dance around anything asked of me on here. I am one of the most honest and will come out and say it if it's true.

You STILL haven't answered the question :

What has Campbell accomplished?

Is it that hard of a question to answer?

[BigMike619]

You STILL haven't answered the question :

What has Campbell accomplished?

Is it that hard of a question to answer?

maybe you dont like HOW I have answered it but it has been stated several times with the stats posted.

Keep trying to dig at me though, maybe you'll get what you're looking for. :laugh:

[HeHateMe]

you're barking up the wrong tree if you think I will EVER back up Marino. I consider him the Barry Bonds of the NFL. Great in the regular season but falls apart in the post.

Never liked him.

Elway never had the supporting cast that Aikman did but rings get ya more respect.

Favre is my man...I cant hate against him. All I can say is if he had Emmitt, Moose, Cracky and Harper then he might have gotten more then 1. He deserved 5.

**** man, according to your logic then Theissmann is better then Favre and Marino huh. Rypien is better then all other QBs from Dallass except Staubach and Aikman.

We can do this..

It wasnt my logic, it was yours.

You began this whole charade when you said the Romo vs. Campbell comparison came down to playoff victories (ie postseason success).

I took it from there. I don't necessarily agree with what I stated regarding Aikman, etc.

I simply turned the argument around. :)

[HeHateMe]

They both have the same amount of playoff wins.

But Romo does have him in one category: Games with 5 INTs. :thumbsup:

Theres that argument again.

And you forgot to add 5 INT games but still good enough to win the game. :)

[HeHateMe]

you really call that something to hang your hat on? You won the NFC East and then lost in the first round of the playoffs. AT HOME!!

And then the stuff with crying about Crayton and your O-line made me laugh so hard I stopped taking you serious.

Is this the part where you come with something real or should I just keep laughing? :laugh:

No shame in losing to the eventual Super Bowl champs when they owned everyone other star QB they played against.

Including the record setting 3 time SB winner who was going for the perfect season.

[HeHateMe]

My point was that QBs take time to develop, even supposedly talented first rounders. Draft status means little imo, players need time to develop. (phillip rivers, romo, brady, derek burgess, favre, elway, simms etc...) Romo was given time to develop and fell into a great situation. He is playing well and making the most of it. Campbell has never had continuity and has not played as well as Romo (not gonna dispute that) with much less time to develop. I'm just being a realist.

And with all that, the expectation of a first round pick QB are tremendously greater than that of an undrafted one.

Development time or not, the 1st rounder is expected to be a franchise QB.

The undrafted one? Not so much.

[BigMike619]

No shame in losing to the eventual Super Bowl champs when they owned everyone other star QB they played against.

Including the record setting 3 time SB winner who was going for the perfect season.


He didnt own Todd Collins in our last game.

[2006Skins]

And with all that, the expectation of a first round pick QB are tremendously greater than that of an undrafted one.

Development time or not, the 1st rounder is expected to be a franchise QB.

The undrafted one? Not so much.

While having a 1st round qb bust can hurt a franchise for years, once each player gets onto the field, it doesn't matter. You can actually argue that the UD qb has the advantage because if he shows any promise, he can sit on the bench behind a vet qb and learn the NFL and the offense that the team runs. You can say all you want about Garrett coming on, but he ran almost the same offense that Romo ran the years before.

To say that where a qb is drafted makes no difference once they hit the field. Yes it matters to some fans and members of the media, but ask most of the players if they care where the other vets get drafted. Most of the time, the performance outweighs where they were drafted.

What Romo has not proven is that he can have the same on the field success when TO is off the field.

[HeHateMe]

He didnt own Todd Collins in our last game.

I was referring to the Giants.

And how Romo not having a good game against them in the playoffs (even though he torched them in the regular season twice:whoknows: ) didnt look too bad after they owned Favre and Brady, respectively.

[CHUCKWAGON]

oh the can of worms you just opened. worms with a gun for a mouth and knives for teeth.

I smell a BIG debate here...let me get my debating hat on!!


No. There is no debate. None whatsoever. And those that attempt to make a debate out of this is nothing more but wishing away reality. This is the NFL. And it all comes down to production. All the other stuff: talent, potential, ect. does not mean squat in the grand scheme of things if it doesn't translate into production. It begins with production and ends with production.

Bottomline. Romo has PRODUCED. Campbell has not. END OF DEBATE.

I recall last year, how ou guys made fun of Romo and his 95 QB rating. You even incorporated such attemtped mockery of it into your signatures. You all stated that Romo wold be brought back down to earth because "...everyone now has seeen film on him". YOU ALL SAID THAT ROMO PEAKED! And that he could only go down from here on... do you guys remember any of this? This is what you guys stated. And you went on to say as to how Campbell would breakout this year, because now.."he has had a full and continuous year of working in Saunders' offense".

Yet it didn't happen the way you said it would. Romo didn't falter. He improved on his performance last year as reflected in his QB rating. He led his team to a second playoff berth and a 13-3 season. And Campbell didn't have the breakout season.

And now here youa re back spouting the same ol stuff once more.


Cowboys' fans. Get a grip! These are the same people that claim Cooley is better than Witten, even though the stats and facts which = production says completely otherwise.

The Kool-Aid Brigade never allows such things as facts and triuth to get in the way of the propaganda.



Thanks, that made damn near spit coke all over my monitor.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Here goes.

1. Almost as good as Quincy Carter was.

2. He's great. Top 5 QB for at least a decade.

3. Romo by a mile, Romo by 2 miles.


I don't know if Romo will be a top 5 QB for "at least a decade", but he is certainly a top 5 QB as of right now and I'll settle for that.


Quincy Carter who's tongue was too big for his own mouth? Yeah, how did that work out for your team?

The Glass House Gang is at it again.

Much like Portis, who talks like his mouth is full of mush? And wasn't there an article awhile back on how players in the huddle couldn't understand Campbell?

[VA Cowboy fan]

I have responded there Mr "im not going to get involved". If ALL you are counting is a 13 winning game season and NO playoff wins then you can have it. We are obviously trying to do a little more.

But hey, congrats on winning 13 games and losing at home. You should put that on your resume of WHY the boys are so good.

danced around..dude get a grip. I dont need to dance around anything asked of me on here. I am one of the most honest and will come out and say it if it's true.

Again dancing like the stars could use you because you still have not answered the one simple question that was asked of you.......you want to spin it off in another direction...........
Come on BigMike its not a hard question...................

[Reic]

And wasn't there an article awhile back on how players in the huddle couldn't understand Campbell?

Wait, did you just seriously compare a big mouth to a southern drawl?

That cold in Chicago is getting to ya man.

[Jumbo]

I recall last year, how ou guys made fun of Romo and his 95 QB rating. You even incorporated such attemtped mockery of it into your signatures. You all stated that Romo wold be brought back down to earth because "...everyone now has seeen film on him". YOU ALL SAID THAT ROMO PEAKED! And that he could only go down from here on... do you guys remember any of this? This is what you guys stated. And you went on to say as to how Campbell would breakout this year, because now.."he has had a full and continuous year of working in Saunders' offense".


Fascinating cowboy troll-zombies who try to rise from the dead--again and again they give themsleves up right away by their own words.:)

[Jumbo]

The thread started seems to be absent too, lately. And no, I didn't remove that one, I thought it might turn out to be fun. :silly:

[BigMike619]

Again dancing like the stars could use you because you still have not answered the one simple question that was asked of you.......you want to spin it off in another direction...........
Come on BigMike its not a hard question...................

you falling in love dude?

move along and go watch your dancin show.

im not here to dance for you..

[elkabong82]

Pukes still dancin around the fact that Romo=Culpepper, that is Romo=product of his WR

[TonyRomoProBowl]

What a silly thread.

All I can add to this nonsense, is that Cambell is a 1st round talent, and may end up the best of all the QB's drafted that year (2005)......maybe 2nd best to Derrick Anderson (if he isnt a one year wonder) The kid has a super arm and a great work ethic. I can't as a fan of football just take that away from him. He hasnt yet reached his potential, and has the ability and opportunity to be great. We will all know more after this year for sure!

Romo has not yet reached his potential either, and as an undrafted free agent, he has worked his tail off to get to where he is. To say that he is "only good" because of the talent around him is also nonsense, and flat out hate of him because he is a Cowboy!

Both Tony Romo and Jason Cambell are staters for great franchises, that want more then anything to win, and both franchises will give them ample time and will surrond them both with talent that will take them to the next level. I have a feeling that they will both see post season and championship success....Romo has a slight edge in getting there sooner (for having a little bit better talent currently on the roster), but both have a great shot at some special success before their careers are over.

what a bunch of nonsense, of taring one down to make the other better.......Is it impossible for people to be honest and to look past certain hate of theor rivals....where in the ever living world is all the "objectivness" i hear so much about?

All i see (for the most part) is Campbell sucks and is no better then Quinthy Carter (a line i used once as a joke) and Romo is Only good because of T.O. And hasnt won a playoff game...well just cut him now Jerry, two playoff games into his career he dropped a snap on a FG, and lost to the Superbowl champs, by 4.....forget about all the damn excuses (crayton, Henry....T.O injury...etc.....He has played in two friggen playoff games, and has been a starter for 1.5 years! Good lord!

Campbell was putting up some special numbers before his injury, and doing things, Quinthy just couldnt do......Give the man some time to develop and he'll be very good.

ugh!!!

[VA Cowboy fan]

you falling in love dude?

move along and go watch your dancin show.

im not here to dance for you..


HA HA HA ...you just wont answer the question will you.........

I will help you out............

Tono Romo is a better QB because_____________________

just fill in the blanks..........

[BigMike619]

HA HA HA ...you just wont answer the question will you.........

I will help you out............

Tono Romo is a better QB because____________________

just fill in the blanks..........

Madden is in love with him?

He throws 5 INTs in a game?

He was punked by the skins D in week 17?

wow..this was fun. You VA boys sure are simple...:laugh:

Now your turn....dance!! respond to this!! dance for us!!

[SteveFromYellowstone]

What a silly thread.

All I can add to this nonsense, is that Cambell is a 1st round talent, and may end up the best of all the QB's drafted that year (2005)......maybe 2nd best to Derrick Anderson (if he isnt a one year wonder) The kid has a super arm and a great work ethic. I can't as a fan of football just take that away from him. He hasnt yet reached his potential, and has the ability and opportunity to be great. We will all know more after this year for sure!

Romo has not yet reached his potential either, and as an undrafted free agent, he has worked his tail off to get to where he is. To say that he is "only good" because of the talent around him is also nonsense, and flat out hate of him because he is a Cowboy!

Both Tony Romo and Jason Cambell are staters for great franchises, that want more then anything to win, and both franchises will give them ample time and will surrond them both with talent that will take them to the next level. I have a feeling that they will both see post season and championship success....Romo has a slight edge in getting there sooner (for having a little bit better talent currently on the roster), but both have a great shot at some special success before their careers are over.

what a bunch of nonsense, of taring one down to make the other better.......Is it impossible for people to be honest and to look past certain hate of theor rivals....where in the ever living world is all the "objectivness" i hear so much about?

All i see (for the most part) is Campbell sucks and is no better then Quinthy Carter (a line i used once as a joke) and Romo is Only good because of T.O. And hasnt won a playoff game...well just cut him now Jerry, two playoff games into his career he dropped a snap on a FG, and lost to the Superbowl champs, by 4.....forget about all the damn excuses (crayton, Henry....T.O injury...etc.....He has played in two friggen playoff games, and has been a starter for 1.5 years! Good lord!

Campbell was putting up some special numbers before his injury, and doing things, Quinthy just couldnt do......Give the man some time to develop and he'll be very good.

ugh!!!

I totally agree. This is just about the only non-subjective (objective) post in this whole thread.

[BigMike619]

Yeah Tony, that is a great post and I appreciate that.

[Santana_Fan]

Quincy Carter who's tongue was too big for his own mouth? Yeah, how did that work out for your team?

Top 5 of the decade? :laugh:

You have had a nice gulp of that Dallass fool-aid tonight huh :cheers:

I dont know if this was a call out thread. the kid might just be really interested in knowing.


Top 5 QB of the decade, during the regular season. In the playoffs...the viewers get a totally different QB.

[BigMike619]

Top 5 QB of the decade, during the regular season. In the playoffs...the viewers get a totally different QB.

Honestly I still dont put him top 5. Top ten sure, but there are 5 QBs out there better then him this past decade.:2cents:

[AmishGangster]

you really call that something to hang your hat on? You won the NFC East and then lost in the first round of the playoffs. AT HOME!!

Is this the part where you come with something real or should I just keep laughing? :laugh:

Leads his team to a pretty record, yet, get's knocked out of the playoffs in the first round. haha

I guess that makes a guy like Dante Culpepper a legend :laugh:

Kind of similiar to Romo. Has a premier receiver to throw to, and all of a sudden, his stats go through the roof -- imagine that? :) However, when he's without that premier receiver, he looks like Joe Schmoe.

It be interesting to see what kind of stats Campbell would have, if he had the option to just loft balls up in the air to TO.

Tony Romo = Dante Culpepper, nothing more nothing less.

[skinsn24]

What a silly thread.

All I can add to this nonsense, is that Cambell is a 1st round talent, and may end up the best of all the QB's drafted that year (2005)......maybe 2nd best to Derrick Anderson (if he isnt a one year wonder) The kid has a super arm and a great work ethic. I can't as a fan of football just take that away from him. He hasnt yet reached his potential, and has the ability and opportunity to be great. We will all know more after this year for sure!

Romo has not yet reached his potential either, and as an undrafted free agent, he has worked his tail off to get to where he is. To say that he is "only good" because of the talent around him is also nonsense, and flat out hate of him because he is a Cowboy!

Both Tony Romo and Jason Cambell are staters for great franchises, that want more then anything to win, and both franchises will give them ample time and will surrond them both with talent that will take them to the next level. I have a feeling that they will both see post season and championship success....Romo has a slight edge in getting there sooner (for having a little bit better talent currently on the roster), but both have a great shot at some special success before their careers are over.

what a bunch of nonsense, of taring one down to make the other better.......Is it impossible for people to be honest and to look past certain hate of theor rivals....where in the ever living world is all the "objectivness" i hear so much about?

All i see (for the most part) is Campbell sucks and is no better then Quinthy Carter (a line i used once as a joke) and Romo is Only good because of T.O. And hasnt won a playoff game...well just cut him now Jerry, two playoff games into his career he dropped a snap on a FG, and lost to the Superbowl champs, by 4.....forget about all the damn excuses (crayton, Henry....T.O injury...etc.....He has played in two friggen playoff games, and has been a starter for 1.5 years! Good lord!

Campbell was putting up some special numbers before his injury, and doing things, Quinthy just couldnt do......Give the man some time to develop and he'll be very good.

ugh!!!

This post is dead on. Not only does it describe romo and JC it describes es.

Everyone is divided on party lines.

Who cares if a QB is a "product of his WRs", football is a team game. Was Steve Young good because of Rice? Was rice only good because of his QBs?

Does it matter?

Who was Patrick Crayton before this year anyway?

Same thing goes for JC:

Where was his offensive line?

Football is a team game.

The funniest is 1 side will knock a qb for making a game ending int (one play), while pimping their own player as being just 1 play away. Its nonsense.

Does Romo seem to get lucky alot? IMO yes, but thats a good thing not a bad thing.

Would i love to have a QB with a kurt warner type run on my team? Hell yea. Product of whatever, i want to win.

[BigMike619]

For once skins24 and I agree. I think what started this one up though was the "Campbell is just like Carter" statement made.

Until one of them wins a playoff game and a super bowl ring they can be argued back and forth forever.

[skinsn24]

you really call that something to hang your hat on? You won the NFC East and then lost in the first round of the playoffs. AT HOME!!

And then the stuff with crying about Crayton and your O-line made me laugh so hard I stopped taking you serious.

Is this the part where you come with something real or should I just keep laughing? :laugh:

Fyi, Dallas lost in the second round of the playoffs (divisional round), though it was at home as you stated.

Our skins lost in the first round (wild card ) on the road.

[BigMike619]

Fyi, Dallas lost in the second round of the playoffs (divisional round), though it was at home as you stated.

Our skins lost in the first round (wild card ) on the road.

oh, so you're gonna try and use the ol Bum Jr logic on me?

You won a playoff game because you were in the second round when you lost? :laugh:

Nice try with the word cop bit but we both know you didnt win anything. :silly:

and after I gave you a compliment too on your last post. Just had to come back with that huh..

[skinsn24]

Leads his team to a pretty record, yet, get's knocked out of the playoffs in the first round. haha.

Again Dallas lost in the second round of the playoffs.

I know you know this. This just goes to the point that people get so hyped on their side, they lose track of actual facts.

Not trying to grill you, i know it can happen.:cheers:

[skinsn24]

oh, so you're gonna try and use the ol Bum Jr logic on me?

You won a playoff game because you were in the second round when you lost? :laugh:

Nice try with the word cop bit but we both know you didnt win anything. :silly:

and after I gave you a compliment too on your last post. Just had to come back with that huh..

hun? Bum Jr logic?

Who is you? I am not a cowboy fan nor will ever be,

I never said dallas won a playoff game. That would be false.

But saying dallas lost in round 1 is also false. They earned a bye to round 2, that is a fact.

It helps your argument when you are factually on point.

You said u agreed with me, not a huge compliment, but if you notice the posting time, i was writing my post as you were writing yours.

Again, just be accurate. The boys lost in round 2. They didnt win a game, no one said they did, but they didnt lose in round 1, to so say is inaccurate and false.:2cents:

[BigMike619]

Again Dallas lost in the second round of the playoffs.

I know you know this. This just goes to the point that people get so hyped on their side, they lose track of actual facts.

Not trying to grill you, i know it can happen.:cheers:

ok, this must be your joke of the day because thats twice on the same thread that youve made it.

it was the first round that they played in word cop. feel better now?

they still have ZERO victories in post season for the past 12 years no matter how you try to word or swing it.:cheers:

[skinsn24]

they still have ZERO victories in post season for the past 12 years no matter how you try to word or swing it.:cheers:

Read my above post. What you have written here is accurate. However they didnt lose in round 1. They lost in the divisonal round, its a matter of fact.

Its like in the big east tournament, a team with a bye CANNOT lose in round 1, its just not possible

[BigMike619]

hun? Bum Jr logic?

Who is you? I am not a cowboy fan nor will ever be,

I never said dallas won a playoff game. That would be false.

But saying dallas lost in round 1 is also false. They earned a bye to round 2, that is a fact.

It helps your argument when you are factually on point.

You said u agreed with me, not a huge compliment, but if you notice the posting time, i was writing my post as you were writing yours.

Again, just be accurate. The boys lost in round 2. They didnt win a game, no one said they did, but they didnt lose in round 1, to so say is inaccurate and false.:2cents:

Yeah, Bum Jr. Wade is his son. He said "we didnt lose in the first round at least".

Who is you? What does that even mean.

They lost in the first round they played in. First round that the teams without byes played in. First round that wasnt a wild card round. So I guess we can still call it first round.

[skinsn24]

Yeah, Bum Jr. Wade is his son. He said "we didnt lose in the first round at least".

Who is you? What does that even mean.

They lost in the first round they played in. First round that the teams without byes played in. First round that wasnt a wild card round. So I guess we can still call it first round.

Who is you? Means that in your previous post you said "you" referring to someone but never stated who.

Yes the boys did lose in the first round they played in. That is true, but it was not and never will be "the first round of the playoffs." Why you have to get all up tight about this FACT is beyond me.

The Boys ended up playing deeper into the playoffs than teams like tampa bay, the only way that is possible is if 1. Dallas didnt lose in round 1 or 2. Tampa didnt make the playoffs.

We know which one happened.

[VCDefectors]

Leads his team to a pretty record, yet, get's knocked out of the playoffs in the first round. haha

I guess that makes a guy like Dante Culpepper a legend :laugh:

Kind of similiar to Romo. Has a premier receiver to throw to, and all of a sudden, his stats go through the roof -- imagine that? :) However, when he's without that premier receiver, he looks like Joe Schmoe.

It be interesting to see what kind of stats Campbell would have, if he had the option to just loft balls up in the air to TO.

Tony Romo = Dante Culpepper, nothing more nothing less.

Culpepper has had an up and down QB his entire career, including having subpar seasons in 2001 and 2002, when Moss was still a Viking. Knee injuries in 2001 and the major one in 2005 have also had an impact on his career. So you are comparing apples and oranges to some degree.

Yes, there's no denying that Romo doesn't look as dynamic without TO out there. But in Romo's defense, the same thing is going to be said with just about any QB in the league if they have a receiver of TO's ability.

It's an age old argument that has no real bearing because football is a team sport, where a QB is rarely successful without good receivers. The only three QBs I've ever seen that I felt could win games without a good cast of receivers are Dan Marino, Brett Favre and John Elway. Romo is nowhere near that status and I can't imagine any Cowboys fan would claim otherwise.

[skinsn24]

To get back on point though, Romo has had a good deal of success and yes some of it could be due to talent around him, but again who cares?

Jason has tons of physical potential but due to different reasons has not been given the chance to shine yet.

[BigMike619]

Culpepper has had an up and down QB his entire career, including having subpar seasons in 2001 and 2002, when Moss was still a Viking. Knee injuries in 2001 and the major one in 2005 have also had an impact on his career. So you are comparing apples and oranges to some degree.

Yes, there's no denying that Romo doesn't look as dynamic without TO out there. But in Romo's defense, the same thing is going to be said with just about any QB in the league if they have a receiver of TO's ability.

It's an age old argument that has no real bearing because football is a team sport, where a QB is rarely successful without good receivers. The only three QBs I've ever seen that I felt could win games without a good cast of receivers are Dan Marino, Brett Favre and John Elway. Romo is nowhere near that status and I can't imagine any Cowboys fan would claim otherwise.

Question for you VCD, do you think Witten is outshining TO now as far as being the best receiver on the team?

[909997]

Has Campbell ever led his pro team to a 10-6 record and playoff appearance? You can believe whatever you want, to me Campbell is no better than Carter and never will be. A carreer backup came in and did in a few games what Campbell couldn't for 2 years.

u cant be serious quencys best year was 57% completion 17 tds 21ints

do you watch football?

[909997]

Question for you VCD, do you think Witten is outshining TO now as far as being the best receiver on the team?

NO, i think witten is getting more open because defenses focus on TO. Without TO on the lineup wittens production is average. Example carolinas game witten hwas a having a pretty good game untill TO went down, after that i didnt hear wittens name did you? and in washington was witten even playing?:laugh: You would expect your best reciver to get their production up after the #1 option went down, but witten got shutdown without T.O, therefore hes a product of TO.

[VCDefectors]

Question for you VCD, do you think Witten is outshining TO now as far as being the best receiver on the team?

Best receiver as of now? No, but that is an interesting question. Witten, at age 25, is just getting started (even though he has been to 3 or 4 pro bowls already). I'm surprised that no ATNer has posted a thread about the sudden case of dropsies that Witten had at the end of last season. I swear I remember about a half dozen passes he dropped in the last 3 games of the season.

[BigMike619]

Best receiver as of now? No, but that is an interesting question. Witten, at age 25, is just getting started (even though he has been to 3 or 4 pro bowls already). I'm surprised that no ATNer has posted a thread about the sudden case of dropsies that Witten had at the end of last season. I swear I remember about a half dozen passes he dropped in the last 3 games of the season.

Honestly the main thing I remember about him is running down the field with no helmet on and coming back up with a bloody nose. I had to walk away because I was enjoying that moment too much as a Redskins fan. He reminded me of a Ditka or Bavaro.

I think no Skins fan can honestly sit back and talk **** on a player dropping passes last year.

[VCDefectors]

Honestly the main thing I remember about him is running down the field with no helmet on and coming back up with a bloody nose. I had to walk away because I was enjoying that moment too much as a Redskins fan. He reminded me of a Ditka or Bavaro.

I think no Skins fan can honestly sit back and talk **** on a player dropping passes last year.

That's why I wanted to play TE so much. It is a grunt position, but there are opportunities to score TDs, catch passes. My favorite TEs were Jay Novacek, Mark Bavaro, Todd Christensen, Kyle Brady, Kellen Winslow Sr., Ozzie Newsome, and Don Warren.

[BigMike619]

That's why I wanted to play TE so much. It is a grunt position, but there are opportunities to score TDs, catch passes. My favorite TEs were Jay Novacek, Mark Bavaro, Todd Christensen, Kyle Brady, Kellen Winslow Sr., Ozzie Newsome, and Don Warren.

You and me both. I had the vision as a kid of Bavaro carrying like 4 players 10 yards before they were able to bring him down. No big ego, just a real bruiser that loved to hit just as much as get hit. I also loved Winslow alot..

[DWinzit]

I had the vision as a kid of Bavaro carrying like 4 players 10 yards before they were able to bring him down. No big ego, just a real bruiser that loved to hit just as much as get hit.Bavaro was one of the most exciting players to watch with the ball in his hand. These days Cooley is the man in those situations.

Regarding Witten, he is a very good all around TE but TO is still the Cowboys best receiver.

[dallasfan]

Regarding Witten, he is a very good all around TE but TO is still the Cowboys best receiver.

Which would be the case if Cooley was in DC as well......

[dallasfan]

it was the first round that they played in word cop. feel better now?

they still have ZERO victories in post season for the past 12 years no matter how you try to word or swing it.:cheers:

first round bye.

doesn't add to our victory total or anything, just a fact we started beyond rd 2

[BigMike619]

first round bye.

doesn't add to our victory total or anything, just a fact we started beyond rd 2

If Im thinking straight it is the first round for conference champions. He wants to nitpick words I can do the same. It is the first round for them...

Personally we all know the score, but he wanted to word cop it so I can play that as well..

[skinsn24]

If Im thinking straight it is the first round for conference champions. He wants to nitpick words I can do the same. It is the first round for them...

Personally we all know the score, but he wanted to word cop it so I can play that as well..

Dude there is no word cop here or whatever you want to call it.

I wasnt trying to be a dick or anything, i thought you made a mistake and i was trying to fix it.

They lost in the second round.

And even in your language, it was NOT "the first round round for conference champions"--that would be the superbowl.:doh:

IT is called the divisional round, which is the SECOND round of the NFL playoffs. This is not semantics or arguing words. This is a fact, just accept it, you made a minor mistake, maybe it was even a type O, no big deal.

BUt the fact that you are trying to argue that they lost in the first round in some round about way is a joke.

The boys have lost 6 straight playoff games-fact.
the boys lost in the first round of the playoffs to seattle in 07-Fact
the boys lost in the second round to the gaints in 08-fact.

See the difference there?

[HeHateMe]

Bavaro was one of the most exciting players to watch with the ball in his hand. These days Cooley is the man in those situations.

Regarding Witten, he is a very good all around TE but TO is still the Cowboys best receiver.

Forgetting this already?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gBmfQvs3LO4&feature=related

And keep in mind this was done while UP 35-10 in the 4th Quarter.

[tr1]

Dude there is no word cop here or whatever you want to call it.

I wasnt trying to be a dick or anything, i thought you made a mistake and i was trying to fix it.

They lost in the second round.

And even in your language, it was NOT "the first round round for conference champions"--that would be the superbowl.:doh:

IT is called the divisional round, which is the SECOND round of the NFL playoffs. This is not semantics or arguing words. This is a fact, just accept it, you made a minor mistake, maybe it was even a type O, no big deal.

BUt the fact that you are trying to argue that they lost in the first round in some round about way is a joke.

The boys have lost 6 straight playoff games-fact.
the boys lost in the first round of the playoffs to seattle in 07-Fact
the boys lost in the second round to the gaints in 08-fact.

See the difference there?

I love how you're always interested in making the pukes look as good as possible.

Oh, yeah, I forgot...you're a Skins fan... :rolleyes:

[BigMike619]

I love how you're always interested in making the pukes look as good as possible.

Oh, yeah, I forgot...you're a Skins fan... :rolleyes:

I think this is all just so he can try and get to you and me.

He is trying to word cop things to make himself sound smart. I dont know if he has a superior complex or he just likes to see his name on here but he loves to TRY and come behind me to show people that he is somehow smarter then me.

Its working...:rolleyes:

[skinsn24]

I think this is all just so he can try and get to you and me.

He is trying to word cop things to make himself sound smart.

Its working...:rolleyes:

Again man, you made a simple mistake in a debate, i corrected it. Thats all, pretty simple. Think of it like this, someone says 2+2=5, i said, no it equals 4. They say "oh yea, thanks, my bad".


Did you not say the cowboys lost in the "first round for conference champions"......

[BigMike619]

Forgetting this already?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gBmfQvs3LO4&feature=related

And keep in mind this was done while UP 35-10 in the 4th Quarter.

MAN!!!!

I brought that up earlier and is why I said Witten might be the best receiver on that team. If that doesnt get you excited for football and make you pump your fist then I dont wanna know you..:laugh:

[skinsn24]

I love how you're always interested in making the pukes look as good as possible.

Oh, yeah, I forgot...you're a Skins fan... :rolleyes:

Said it before, the stadium is dead, you guys are fun, so im here.

You dont understand being able to be objective during discussions, but still a fan during the season.

But on this issue, you seem to be more of a "cowboy hater" than a redskins fan. I get much more pleasure out of skins wins than boys losses. You seem to get pleasure the other way.

If 2 people were around me having a debate and one said team X lost in round 1, but i knew they lost in round 2, i would say so, dont see whats wrong with that.

[tr1]

If 2 people were around me having a debate and one said team X lost in round 1, but i knew they lost in round 2, i would say so, dont see whats wrong with that.

Tell me, did you know what he meant?

Yes or no.

[skinsn24]

Tell me, did you know what he meant?

Yes or no.

Yes
He meant the boys lost in the first round of the playoffs.

Unless we are talking in some cryptic code on es now.:laugh:

Edit: but i guess i didnt know what he meant because:

Now i know he meant that the boys lost "in the first round for conference champions"....but i know they didnt make the superbow.:)

[tr1]

Yes, well i thought.

He meant the boys lost in the first round of the playoffs.

Unless we are talking in some cryptic code on es now.:laugh:

But now i know he meant that the boys lost "in the first round for conference champions"....but i know they didnt make the superbow.:)

Just as I thought. You're actions speak volumes for why you're here.

Pick on Skins fans, but don't pick on puke fans.

It's your MO, son.

:laugh:

[BigMike619]

Yes
He meant the boys lost in the first round of the playoffs.

Unless we are talking in some cryptic code on es now.:laugh:

Edit: but i guess i didnt know what he meant because:

Now i know he meant that the boys lost "in the first round for conference champions"....but i know they didnt make the superbow.:)

So you did know what I meant.

To correct me even though you knew what I was saying is just trying to correct my wording. Word cop if you will.

You dont need to go behind me all the time and try to correct me or try to explain to me what Im doing wrong in your eyes. I was surviving and paying bills long before you came along.

[skinsn24]

Just as I thought. You're actions speak volumes for why you're here.

Pick on Skins fans, but don't pick on puke fans.

It's your MO, son.

:laugh:

Son? I am not your son. Dont try to talk down to me becuase of my age.

Remember you are the one who claimed you couldnt get a loan on an unbuilt real estate project. :doh:

I dont pick on skins fans and i dont pick on puke fans. Bigmike has been inaccurate so i correct him. He took offense, wasnt picking on him.

Hell if you read what i wrote about romo and JC, you would see im not sweating romo or anything of the like. And i never have hated on JC.

I just dont get pleasure in watching other teams lose (unless to the skins), i get pleasure in skins wins. I do enjoy when any nfc east team losses (except the skins) and when any NFC loses to an AFC team. Only because it helps my team.

[skinsn24]

So you did know what I meant.

To correct me even though you knew what I was saying is just trying to correct my wording. Word cop if you will.

You dont need to go behind me all the time and try to correct me or try to explain to me what Im doing wrong in your eyes. I was surviving and paying bills long before you came along.

Did u even read what i wrote, i knew what you meant:

"that the boys lost in the first round of the playoffs"--but that is not true. That is false.

Then i thought you meant the boy didnt win a playoff game, which is true, but then you made it clear what you meant:

that the boys lost in "the first round for conference champions"

Yet the first round that conference champions play in is the superbowl, so that cant be true either.

[One Shot]

could've used a ****ing PM.....

[BigMike619]

Did u even read what i wrote, i knew what you meant:

"that the boys lost in the first round of the playoffs"--but that is not true. That is false.

Then i thought you meant the boy didnt win a playoff game, which is true, but then you made it clear what you meant:

that the boys lost in "the first round for conference champions"

Yet the first round that conference champions play in is the superbowl, so that cant be true either.

You keep wasting your time thinking I care about what you think. Youve taken up enough of this thread with your hijacking.

HHM, In case you missed what I said, that play by Witten is a beautiful thing..

[skinsn24]

could've used a ****ing PM.....

True true, the discussion is now totally unneeded in the thread.

[skinsn24]

You keep wasting your time thinking I care about what you think. Youve taken up enough of this thread with your hijacking.

HHM, In case you missed what I said, that play by Witten is a beautiful thing..

oh no my friend, i am wondering what you think. I really want to know how the cowboys played in the first round for conference champions. After you explain that to me, im all good.

[One Shot]

True true, the discussion is now totally unneeded in the thread.

haha nah man I wasn't talking about you guys, was talking about the OP. Sorry

[skinsn24]

haha nah man I wasn't talking about you guys, was talking about the OP. Sorry

hahah, no need to be sorry, you were on point either way.

[DWinzit]

Which would be the case if Cooley was in DC as well......Cooley is in DC.
If you meant if TO was in DC yes I agree but that wasn't the question being answered.

[DWinzit]

Forgetting this already?No I didn't forget that and I gave Witten kudos. I find Cooley has had more exciting plays like that than Witten.

[HeHateMe]

No I didn't forget that and I gave Witten kudos. I find Cooley has had more exciting plays like that than Witten.

Of course you did, he's a Redskin. ;)

[HeHateMe]

HHM, In case you missed what I said, that play by Witten is a beautiful thing..

It was. Just wanted to make sure it wasn't forgotten. :)

[dallasfan]

Cooley is in DC.
If you meant if TO was in DC yes I agree but that wasn't the question being answered.

it seemed you were using the cooley is the #1 option argument as opposed to Witten, who's #2. Personally I don't like that stance cause witten is a #2 b/c one of the all-time great WRs plays with him.

And yea, meant TO

[BigMike619]

it seemed you were using the cooley is the #1 option argument as opposed to Witten, who's #2. Personally I don't like that stance cause witten is a #2 b/c one of the all-time great WRs plays with him.

And yea, meant TO

While TO is a "great" talent, I believe that Witten is more reliable and more likely to NOT drop the ball and definitely NOT the guy on the sidelines screaming and bitching about not getting the ball.

Plus he's Romo's favorite target.

[Passizle]

Reading this entire thread has brought back some interest in the offseason... but one thing alot of Romo supporters dont say. Watch this...


Two chances to take your team to the next game...

What do you do?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZvyfswknL8


And this...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS0d98RYcco

Looks to me like you have a QB that cost you playoff wins 2-2 times. Thats 100% baby!!!

At least he is consistant!:laugh:

[BMahoney]

How can we hate on Romo for losing in the playoffs, if our qb didn't get there? Every ES'er here full well knows that had Campbell never been injured we wouldn't have even made the playoffs. Campbell is yet to prove he is on Romo's level we must accept that, yes he has more potential due to his natural physique, but not all qb's are huge just look at Drew Brees, who I would take over almost any qb besides Carson, Peyton, Brady. No I am not a closet cowboy fan I am a realist who believes Jason Campbell is yet to prove he can WIN a game, his passes are often to high and 90 mph even though the receiver is all of 6 yds away, and we wonder why we had so many drops? Then all of a sudden Collins comes in and Santana can make 1 handed grabs while falling out of bounds, but its all a coincidence. Campbell is not as good as Tony Romo YET, will he be, thats yet to be seen, but hating on a qb for losing a playoff game when our qb couldn't take us there, makes our entire fanbase look extremely foolish and subjective.

Edit: I can recall Petyon Manning having his fair share of playoff difficulties in the past and this season, yet most people on this board will recognize him as one of the best qb's of all time, I know he is in my opinion.

[Passizle]

Baloney!!! Long time no see.

Give it up already with the Campbell hate. All any ES'er has to do is look up your post history to see what you think of Campbell. Dony BS either... you have no hope for him... you never liked him... in fact, you probably think we should have drafted Vince Young.

BTW, how is VY these days. Remember our bet? Even with Campbell injured, he had better numbers...

Your lucky I dont hold you to the deal...

Anyways... nice seeing you are still around.

TTYL!

[BigMike619]

How can we hate on Romo for losing in the playoffs, if our qb didn't get there? Every ES'er here full well knows that had Campbell never been injured we wouldn't have even made the playoffs. Campbell is yet to prove he is on Romo's level we must accept that, yes he has more potential due to his natural physique, but not all qb's are huge just look at Drew Brees, who I would take over almost any qb besides Carson, Peyton, Brady. No I am not a closet cowboy fan I am a realist who believes Jason Campbell is yet to prove he can WIN a game, his passes are often to high and 90 mph even though the receiver is all of 6 yds away, and we wonder why we had so many drops? Then all of a sudden Collins comes in and Santana can make 1 handed grabs while falling out of bounds, but its all a coincidence. Campbell is not as good as Tony Romo YET, will he be, thats yet to be seen, but hating on a qb for losing a playoff game when our qb couldn't take us there, makes our entire fanbase look extremely foolish and subjective.

Edit: I can recall Petyon Manning having his fair share of playoff difficulties in the past and this season, yet most people on this board will recognize him as one of the best qb's of all time, I know he is in my opinion.

Wow, I am glad that "we know that Campbell couldnt do it". Considering we were winning that game against Chicago when he went out with the injury I am glad you can predict the future.

Funny how your "realism" seems to be pretty Redskin-negative. Coincidence? I know alot of skins fans like this though; no matter how well our team is doing you can always find something we are doing wrong. Instead of saying Santana found his groove you say it's Campbell that must be jinxing him. Instead of being happy that we made the playoffs you concentrate on the fact that you think Campbell couldnt have done it. Instead of Jason having a strong arm you say he overthrows. Couldnt be that our WRs are shorter then norm, it HAS to be campbell.

Your name isnt Chad in real life is it? Because I told that guy I wouldnt talk to him about the Skins any more when he said "holding Dallas to 1 yard rushing isnt as good as if we would have held them to 0."

edit: Pasizzle just cemented my thoughts on you. I didnt read your past post history but its apparent you are just a hater.

[BMahoney]

Baloney!!! Long time no see.

Give it up already with the Campbell hate. All any ES'er has to do is look up your post history to see what you think of Campbell. Dony BS either... you have no hope for him... you never liked him... in fact, you probably think we should have drafted Vince Young.

BTW, how is VY these days. Remember our bet? Even with Campbell injured, he had better numbers...

Your lucky I dont hold you to the deal...

Anyways... nice seeing you are still around.

TTYL!

-Both of them were injured, and VY had better numbers in almost as many categories. Good thing you didn't hold me to it because I have posted a link in another thread where you called me out that showed you saying if either qb got injured then the bet was off, considering both got injured I would say the bet was off.
(If you would like me to find it again please let me know)
-Second of all I don't like how Campbell has produced for us so far, not saying he isn't the answer of the future, or that we should trade for another qb. Only saying I haven't seen much from him yet
-Thirdly the argument that Romo sucks because he can't win in the playoffs can't be made when comparing him to Campbell, because Campbell has never made it to the playoffs. That would be equivalent to the eagles saying we suck because we lost first round, its just stupid because they didn't even make it that far.

Here are the career stats for the two guys we are trying to compare:
Campbell: 57.7%, 3,997 yds, 22 td, 17 int
Romo: 64.8%, 7,114 yds, 55 td, 33, int

-As you can see these two qb's at this moment in time aren't comparable Romo is far ahead of Campbell, BUT I am not saying that Campbell won't someday be better, only that he is yet to prove much of anything, and to call Romo a bad qb is quite hypocritical considering, our qb hasn't done anything better.

[BMahoney]

Wow, I am glad that "we know that Campbell couldnt do it". Considering we were winning that game against Chicago when he went out with the injury I am glad you can predict the future.

Funny how your "realism" seems to be pretty Redskin-negative. Coincidence? I know alot of skins fans like this though; no matter how well our team is doing you can always find something we are doing wrong. Instead of saying Santana found his groove you say it's Campbell that must be jinxing him. Instead of being happy that we made the playoffs you concentrate on the fact that you think Campbell couldnt have done it. Instead of Jason having a strong arm you say he overthrows. Couldnt be that our WRs are shorter then norm, it HAS to be campbell.

Your name isnt Chad in real life is it? Because I told that guy I wouldnt talk to him about the Skins any more when he said "holding Dallas to 1 yard rushing isnt as good as if we would have held them to 0."

edit: Pasizzle just cemented my thoughts on you. I didnt read your past post history but its apparent you are just a hater.

-My realism is hardly ever redskins negative actually, only against Campbell so please don't try that argument on me.
-Instead of Santana finding his groove I said Campbell was jinxing him, because he hardly ever hit him in stride did you watch these games? Santana can't be expected to jump over the middle he's not big enough. Also found it kind of odd that Santana just seemed to hit his groove as soon as Campbell wasn't the qb.
-I have never said Jason doesn't have a strong arm I said he overthrows, which is entirely true. If you haven't seen this then you didn't watch any games he played in last season.
-I was happy that we made it to the playoffs, didn't even think about Campbell back then so don't know what you are talking about your really getting off topic here, and putting words in my mouth.
-Yes the receivers may have been short, doesn't change the fact that JC has a huge tight end and a pro bowl te, and that Collins was somehow able to find these short receivers far more consistently.
-I am a JC hater, I don't think he has proved much compared to the rest of this board. I have shown you his career numbers and their not very impressing, not saying we currently have a better option at qb, only that I don't believe Campbell has really shown much upside. But hey atleast somone in the media agrees with this entire board that Campbell will be descent, good ol skip bayless seems to think Campbell will be good too. For me it is yet to be seen if Campbell can be a good, if you can look at those numbers and be happy then by all means be happy, with qb's like Derek Anderson, Ben Roethlisberger, and Tony Romo all having success much sooner then Campbell I am not very happy I expect results sooner.

[BigMike619]

clown shoes comes to mind when reading that.

[Passizle]

-Both of them were injured, and VY had better numbers in almost as many categories. Good thing you didn't hold me to it because I have posted a link in another thread where you called me out that showed you saying if either qb got injured then the bet was off, considering both got injured I would say the bet was off.
(If you would like me to find it again please let me know)
-Second of all I don't like how Campbell has produced for us so far, not saying he isn't the answer of the future, or that we should trade for another qb. Only saying I haven't seen much from him yet
-Thirdly the argument that Romo sucks because he can't win in the playoffs can't be made when comparing him to Campbell, because Campbell has never made it to the playoffs. That would be equivalent to the eagles saying we suck because we lost first round, its just stupid because they didn't even make it that far.

Here are the career stats for the two guys we are trying to compare:
Campbell: 57.7%, 3,997 yds, 22 td, 17 int
Romo: 64.8%, 7,114 yds, 55 td, 33, int

-As you can see these two qb's at this moment in time aren't comparable Romo is far ahead of Campbell, BUT I am not saying that Campbell won't someday be better, only that he is yet to prove much of anything, and to call Romo a bad qb is quite hypocritical considering, our qb hasn't done anything better.

Hey Bud... dont take it so personal. I was actually just saying hello. As for the bet... VY tweaked a quad and missed all of one game. According to our bet... it was for an extended time, not a one game injury... it had to be season ending or serious enough to be out like 4 weeks or so... (and that accomplished by JC's dislocated kneecap)
That given, VY played in 15 games and JC played in 13. With that given, JC had better stats across the board.

JC: 60% comp, 2700 yards, 12 TD/11INT, 77.6 QB rating, 36 rush att, 185 yards rushing (5.1 avg) and a really yucky 13 fumbles...
VY: 62.3 comp, 2546 yards, 9TD/17INT, 71.0 QB rating, 93 rush att, 395 yards rushing (4.2 avg) and 10 fumbles...

The only thing that VY had the advantage is in comp% and the win/loss column by a whopping whole game (TN finished 10-6 and the Skins finished 9-7) AND... VY had 2 more games to improve his numbers over the competition... by any means (even though it does not count) you lost the bet hands down...

[BMahoney]

clown shoes comes to mind when reading that.
-Don't know what this thread has to do with the redskins, or the NFL for th matter. If you have something to say to me personally you may as well PM me. It appears you don't have a very valid argument for why I should believe in Jason Campbell yet and I don't he hasn't proven much, I'll root for him since he is the Redskins qb, but why should I believe in him?

Edit: Better yet why don't you give me the reasons you believe in him.

[BigMike619]

-Don't know what this thread has to do with the redskins, or the NFL for th matter. If you have something to say to me personally you may as well PM me. It appears you don't have a very valid argument for why I should believe in Jason Campbell yet and I don't he hasn't proven much, I'll root for him since he is the Redskins qb, but why should I believe in him?

Edit: Better yet why don't you give me the reasons you believe in him.

I have now gone back and read your past posts when it comes to Campbell and I have to say, I would rather talk to my shoe about Campbell then to speak to you. You are so one-sided and anti-Campbell that it would be a waste of my efforts to try and convince you that he is a good QB.

Have a good day though. :cheers:

[Passizle]

Actually... that would belong in another thread... forgive me for taking this discussion into an entirley different subject. Back on topic...
I think Romo is better than JC as of now. What remians in the future? IDK... let me ask my magic 8 ball (here come the drug jokes...)...
I see Campbell struggling with yet another new offense... and another sleugh of anti Campebell threads hitting this website...
On Romo... I see him coming down a notch and getting serious about his game... all the media hype and superstar girlfriends has really hit home with him... he digs deep and produces andother great year of stats and awards and probowls and in the final seconds of yet another playoff game... he (insert rediculous screwup here) and loses the game.

And Redskins fans rejoice!

[BMahoney]

Actually... that would belong in another thread... forgive me for taking this discussion into an entirley different subject. Back on topic...
I think Romo is better than JC as of now. What remians in the future? IDK... let me ask my magic 8 ball (here come the drug jokes...)...
I see Campbell struggling with yet another new offense... and another sleugh of anti Campebell threads hitting this website...
On Romo... I see him coming down a notch and getting serious about his game... all the media hype and superstar girlfriends has really hit home with him... he digs deep and produces andother great year of stats and awards and probowls and in the final seconds of yet another playoff game... he (insert rediculous screwup here) and loses the game.

And Redskins fans rejoice!

-I will be one of them rejoicing, but how can we as Redskins fans use the argument that Tony Romo suck because he can't produce in the playoffs. When Campbell hasn't even proved he can take a team to the playoffs. You can say Romo doesn't have a great arm, many odd plays have gone his way and there is no way that will continue for an entire career, you can say he makes too many ill advised throws, you can say he won't always have TO to throw to but, one argument a redskin fan cannot use as to why Romo is a bad qb, is to say that it is because of his playoff performance. Or the fan could use this argument but it would be difficult, to use this argument and claim to believe that JC is a good qb.

[BMahoney]

I have now gone back and read your past posts when it comes to Campbell and I have to say, I would rather talk to my shoe about Campbell then to speak to you. You are so one-sided and anti-Campbell that it would be a waste of my efforts to try and convince you that he is a good QB.

Have a good day though. :cheers:

-Again you should have pm'ed me, obviously you have nothing to say about football.
-And just because I don't beleive in Campbell yet doesn't mean I am anti-campbell. I will credit him for a few shining moments, but not nearly enough for the amt of time he has spent as a qb in the NFL. This argument is about Romo and campbell though and as I have said it is unfair of you to use the argument that Romo sucks because he chokes in the playoffs, and also claim that Jason Campbell is good, because he has never even made it to the playoffs.

[BigMike619]

-Again you should have pm'ed me, obviously you have nothing to say about football.
-And just because I don't beleive in Campbell yet doesn't mean I am anti-campbell. I will credit him for a few shining moments, but not nearly enough for the amt of time he has spent as a qb in the NFL. This argument is about Romo and campbell though and as I have said it is unfair of you to use the argument that Romo sucks because he chokes in the playoffs, and also claim that Jason Campbell is good, because he has never even made it to the playoffs.

If you want to be technical you arent adding anything to this thread either. This is a thread in which the OP asked tr1 a question. Since neither one of us are tr1 you are just as guilty as you accuse me of being.

Now back to talking to my superior shoe :laugh:

[skinsn24]

If you want to be technical you arent adding anything to this thread either. This is a thread in which the OP asked tr1 a question. Since neither one of us are tr1 you are just as guilty as you accuse me of being.

Now back to talking to my superior shoe :laugh:

Dude he is here willing to debate JC vs Romo, which is pretty much on topic here. You are comparing him to a shoe because he is applying the same reasoning to both qbs, not just to 1.

Maybe you should go back to the shoe, its on your level :)

[BigMike619]

Dude he is here willing to debate JC vs Romo, which is pretty much on topic here. You are comparing him to a shoe because he is applying the same reasoning to both qbs, not just to 1.

Maybe you should go back to the shoe, its on your level :)


oh look who's piping in. its our favorite "fan". Always here to follow me around and pipe in whenever he can dispute what I have to say.

[skinsn24]

oh look who's piping in. its our favorite "fan". Always here to follow me around and pipe in whenever he can dispute what I have to say.

Isnt one of the purposes of a message board to debate? NO way, that cant right. he he.


I am sure in time you will learn some people come here to debate, continue with the shoe though.

[BigMike619]

Isnt one of the purposes of a message board to debate? NO way, that cant right. he he.


I am sure in time you will learn some people come here to debate, continue with the shoe though.


I was hoping that you would learn that your opinion means very little to me. But that hasnt happened yet either. Oh well :doh:

[skinsn24]

I was hoping that you would learn that your opinion means very little to me. But that hasnt happened yet either. Oh well :doh:

Yet you keep dancing

[BigDFan5]

I was hoping that you would learn that your opinion means very little to me. But that hasnt happened yet either. Oh well :doh:

For someones whose opinion you hold little regard you sure reply to him alot :2cents:

[[[ghost]]]

For someones whose opinion you hold little regard you sure reply to him alot :2cents:

That happens alot more around here than it should. Wonder why....

[BigMike619]

For someones whose opinion you hold little regard you sure reply to him alot :2cents:

yeah, dont worry your nosey little head about that. Thats not happening again. He has gotten under my skin for the last time.

But hey, thanks for pointing that out; i knew I could count on you. :thumbsup:

[BMahoney]

I was hoping that you would learn that your opinion means very little to me. But that hasnt happened yet either. Oh well :doh:
-And I was hoping that we could discuss football on a football board, but apparently you haven't realized that. I could give two ****s whether my opinion means anything to you, it appears you have no opinion other than Campbell is good because.... Romo has proven much more so far, not saying this makes me happy only that its the truth. It appears to me that you only like Campbell because he is the redskins qb, and that is my point you look at everything very subjectively, and can't honestly see what is right in front of your eyes. My opinion can mean squat to you, JC's numbers are JC's numbers they are not impressive, case closed.
-You have put forth no argument other then poor attempts of wit to discredit my character, you claim you would rather talk to your shoe then me about Campbell, and I see why now because neither one of you has anything to say.

Edit: Looking at all your posts, do you ever talk about football? Or do you just insult board members who disagree with your opinion?

[BigMike619]

-And I was hoping that we could discuss football on a football board, but apparently you haven't realized that. I could give two ****s whether my opinion means anything to you, it appears you have no opinion other than Campbell is good because.... Romo has proven much more so far, not saying this makes me happy only that its the truth. It appears to me that you only like Campbell because he is the redskins qb, and that is my point you look at everything very subjectively, and can't honestly see what is right in front of your eyes. My opinion can mean squat to you, JC's numbers are JC's numbers they are not impressive, case closed.
-You have put forth no argument other then poor attempts of wit to discredit my character, you claim you would rather talk to your shoe then me about Campbell, and I see why now because neither one of you has anything to say.

Edit: Looking at all your posts, do you ever talk about football? Or do you just insult board members who disagree with your opinion?

first off, why do you think that quote was for you when it was clear that I quoted 247?

second off, I have gone thru your past posts and realized that you are SO negative towards Campbell that it is pointless. You never see the other side of things and just want to continue to bash him. Why would I want to debate someone that can never see the other side of things? That is why I said it would be better to talk to my shoe. At least my shoe won't regurgitate the same argument.

[BigDFan5]

]']That happens alot more around here than it should. Wonder why....

Some for the humor value, but with mike it doesnt seem fun for him seems to get aggrevated alot

[BigMike619]

Some for the humor value, but with mike it doesnt seem fun for him seems to get aggrevated alot

I didnt know you were a puppet. Since when do you speak for me Lamont?

That's a no no.

And dont you have your hands full anyways right now? Seems to me like you should concentrate this venom buddy and not worry about me and what I do.

[BigDFan5]

I didnt know you were a puppet. Since when do you speak for me Lamont?

That's a no no.

And dont you have your hands full anyways right now? Seems to me like you should concentrate this venom buddy and not worry about me and what I do.


When was I speaking for you? What venom? See what I mean every post with you is so filled with aggrevation.

[BigMike619]

When was I speaking for you? What venom? See what I mean every post with you is so filled with aggrevation.

Oh Lamont by telling him that I get mad is you trying to speak for me and how I feel when I type.

Go back to lashing out at tr1, you arent gonna get the effect you want from me. :D

[BigDFan5]

Oh Lamont by telling him that I get mad is you trying to speak for me and how I feel when I type.

Go back to lashing out at tr1, you arent gonna get the effect you want from me. :D


Who is Lamont?

No I gave him MY opinion.

Laughing at tr1 is more like it.

What effect am I looking for? I wasnt even talking to you with that post

[BigMike619]

Who is Lamont?

No I gave him MY opinion.

Laughing at tr1 is more like it.

What effect am I looking for? I wasnt even talking to you with that post

Youre looking for a negative reaction because you are lashing out at me and speaking about me to other people.

You are Lamont. Big D. Sanford and Son.

[BMahoney]

Its quite obvious BigMike has very minimal football knowledge and only comes on the board to add small tidbits, looking through all your previous posts I can't find one that honestly discusses football. Its clear your a fan and I ammend any skins fan, but if your going to make statements that you have you really need to support them with an argument, but clearly you are incapable of doing that. I claim JC hasn't proven much, because well he hasn't proven much. You claim I am so anti JC, but I really just haven't seen him win a game for us, and I expect a franchise qb, to be able to take games to the next level and win them for the team (especially with a franchise rb like portis to keep the defense honest). With other qb's producing at much quicker pace, I find it hard to continue to be so light on the judgement of Campbell. So your argument is JC is good because you think so, and I am wrong because I am so blind sided by hatred for my teams qb. Pretty solid.

[BigMike619]

Its quite obvious BigMike has very minimal football knowledge and only comes on the board to add small tidbits, looking through all your previous posts I can't find one that honestly discusses football. Its clear your a fan and I ammend any skins fan, but if your going to make statements that you have you really need to support them with an argument, but clearly you are incapable of doing that. I claim JC hasn't proven much, because well he hasn't proven much. You claim I am so anti JC, but I really just haven't seen him win a game for us, and I expect a franchise qb, to be able to take games to the next level and win them for the team (especially with a franchise rb like portis to keep the defense honest). With other qb's producing at much quicker pace, I find it hard to continue to be so light on the judgement of Campbell. So your argument is JC is good because you think so, and I am wrong because I am so blind sided by hatred for my teams qb. Pretty solid.

You have gone thru all 2782 of my posts and couldnt find one about football?

Man I started a thread yesterday on the ATN that was about Kevin Everett. Isnt that football? Sounds to me like you busted your own theory in the first sentence.

I dont need to do anything for you dude, I hope you can get that clear. You can call me out as much as you want but you arent going to get the rise out of me that you are looking for. :laugh:

[BMahoney]

You have gone thru all 2782 of my posts and couldnt find one about football?

Man I started a thread yesterday on the ATN that was about Kevin Everett. Isnt that football? Sounds to me like you busted your own theory in the first sentence.

I dont need to do anything for you dude, I hope you can get that clear. You can call me out as much as you want but you arent going to get the rise out of me that you are looking for. :laugh:

-Didnt go through all your posts no just the first couple of pgs, many of your posts dicuss football players or board members, but yes they hardly ever discuss football. Kevin Everett is a football player and feel good story, but his injury his very little to do with knowledge of football.
-Dont know why you think I want or need you to do anything for me. All I did was discuss my disapproval of JC, you then quoted me and said I was wrong and just a pessimist. Since you decided to quote me and tell me I was wrong, I supported my opinion, something you have been unable to do as I have pointed out time and time again, you truly are like arguing with a shoe.
-If you have something to say as to why, Jason Campbell is promising please let me know, and don't say its his:
-Arm that allows him to overthrow Santana by 20 yrds (exaggeration calm down)
-Or his natrual physique, because both Romo and Brees are proving that you don't have to have the prototypical qb body to be productive
-Don't tell me it's cause he did good in a WCO in college
-Show me something this guy has done in the NFL to deserve the faith of his fan base, and this doesn't mean fans wont root for him. But why should I believe this guy is going to be a franchise qb.


-I would say agree to disagree, but I don't even know what your argument is if you have one. Maybe next time you shouldn't quote someone, and claim they are wrong without offering supporting facts.
-And again you offer another one of your personal posts you could have pmed to me, since you have nothing to offer to this subject.

[Passizle]

All I can say is this...

Mahoney, you are entitled to your opinion just like everyone else here. I dont think anyone needs to prove to you that JC is the answer... or even a good or great QB. You are going to think what you want to think no matter what.
But my question is this: If you are so high with the Vince Young man crush (who has not done anything stellar) then why cant you at least be optimistic about what JC has shown us over the past year and a half. Just by the stats, JC is a much better QB than VY has ever been in the NFL, yet you claim that VY "gets games won" and think that JC "gets games lost".
I dont understand you logic in that seeing that the difference in the W/L column is 1 game. (And please dont bring in assumptions on the games he did not play. We were winning the game against the bears way before JC got knocked out of it... and there is no way to tell whether JC would have lost the last two games either... it just heresay... I want to talk about facts)
Care to explain that logic? Perhaps this is better suited for a different thread, because the focus has seemed to shify from Romo, to JC.

[BMahoney]

All I can say is this...

Mahoney, you are entitled to your opinion just like everyone else here. I dont think anyone needs to prove to you that JC is the answer... or even a good or great QB. You are going to think what you want to think no matter what.
But my question is this: If you are so high with the Vince Young man crush (who has not done anything stellar) then why cant you at least be optimistic about what JC has shown us over the past year and a half. Just by the stats, JC is a much better QB than VY has ever been in the NFL, yet you claim that VY "gets games won" and think that JC "gets games lost".
I dont understand you logic in that seeing that the difference in the W/L column is 1 game. (And please dont bring in assumptions on the games he did not play. We were winning the game against the bears way before JC got knocked out of it... and there is no way to tell whether JC would have lost the last two games either... it just heresay... I want to talk about facts)
Care to explain that logic? Perhaps this is better suited for a different thread, because the focus has seemed to shify from Romo, to JC.

-If someone is going to call me out for my reasons for not believing in JC(I will once he proves himself to be a franchise qb), I believe they should offer support as to why I should and if not why I should why they do believe in JC, but BigMike has failed to do so, rather he made slight after slight about me. Its very simple, you quote someone and disagree on this board, you should offer valid support, just saying you disagree with someone because you believe they are wrong, they are like arguging with a shoe and they are anti JC is not a very solid argument. If offers no fact to support his opinion, which leads me to believe the only reason he believes in JC, is because he is the redskins qb. Which is another of my points, that he and many others analyze Campbell very subjectively.

-As far as VY goes, I WAS WRONG what can I say, but me being wrong about VY doesn't make anyone right about Campbell, based on his numbers I don't believe he has shown much promise yet can you honestly blame me? With qb's like; Anderson, Roethlisberger, and Romo having success much sooner than Campbell.
-And I said VY wins game because when the game is on the line he had performed at a higher level (though he failed to do so this season). While Campbell when the game is on the line, seems to consistently throw picks or make poor decisions, but this is just my 2 cents. Yes I agree he has stepped up once or twice (CAR, NO games), but a few plays in two games is not nearly enough for the amt of time JC has spent in the NFL.
-What I will credit JC for is his ability to run the no huddle offense, he seemed to perform much better all last season when in the no huddle offense, when it appeared he may have been calling the plays himself (But I am not certain he was).

-AND all my ARGUMENT WAS FROM THE OP is; we as Redskins fans cannot say Romo sucks because he flops in the playoffs, when our own qb has not played a single minute in the playoffs. (It makes us sound foolish to the rest NFL fans). As I have said it would be equivalent to the eagles saying the redskins suck because they lost 1st round of the playoffs, which is irrelevant because the eagles even didn't make it.

[Passizle]

Agreed. But WE can say Romo sucks just because we are Redskin fans. Its in the membership clause...

Romo is a good (although IMO VERY lucky SOB) QB. I think he is better out of the pocket. I think he is better when playing "street" style football. He puts up great numbers when there is no tough work to do. Not taking anythin away form him. He is good when the situation warrants it... not the other way around.
On Romos negatives?...
He has HORRIBLE throwing mechanics. He is constantly off balance, happy footed and side arm slingin out passes that are ALWAYS high risk/high reward type plays.
He is the type of player that will excell against the weaker competition and fold when the pressure is greatest.
He is still the best thing the Cowboys have seen in a long time... and I think the Cowboys will have many play appearances in the coming years.
Now... if they can get a better defense (namley the secondary), they might actually get some playoffs wins too.

[BMahoney]

Agreed. But WE can say Romo sucks just because we are Redskin fans. Its in the membership clause...

Romo is a good (although IMO VERY lucky SOB) QB. I think he is better out of the pocket. I think he is better when playing "street" style football. He puts up great numbers when there is no tough work to do. Not taking anythin away form him. He is good when the situation warrants it... not the other way around.
On Romos negatives?...
He has HORRIBLE throwing mechanics. He is constantly off balance, happy footed and side arm slingin out passes that are ALWAYS high risk/high reward type plays.
He is the type of player that will excell against the weaker competition and fold when the pressure is greatest.
He is still the best thing the Cowboys have seen in a long time... and I think the Cowboys will have many play appearances in the coming years.
Now... if they can get a better defense (namley the secondary), they might actually get some playoffs wins too.

-I agree with everything you said, and that right there is an argument a redskins fan, or any fan for the matter, can put forth as to why Romo is not a good qb.

[trickblue]

Quincy Carter who's tongue was too big for his own mouth? Yeah, how did that work out for your team?

Actually... a bit better than Heath Shuler worked out for you guys... ;)

[BigMike619]

Actually... a bit better than Heath Shuler worked out for you guys... ;)

well congrats on that one. Considering no Redskins fan will tell you that Heath did a damn thing for us you should be proud. :thumbsup:

[trickblue]

well congrats on that one. Considering no Redskins fan will tell you that Heath did a damn thing for us you should be proud. :thumbsup:

Well, in this pissing match contest, things have worked out better for Dallas...

I'm just saying...

[BigMike619]

Well, in this pissing match contest, things have worked out better for Dallas...

I'm just saying...

umm..he was saying Quincy was better then Campbell. Youre the only one talking piss over here.

And Quincy is in NO way better then Campbell unless we wanna talk dirty drug tests.

[trickblue]

umm..he was saying Quincy was better then Campbell. Youre the only one talking piss over here.

And Quincy is in NO way better then Campbell unless we wanna talk dirty drug tests.

I have no love for Q, but Campbell has shown little at this point...

I actually like the kid although I think he was taken a bit early, but that is classic Redskin logic; If we (Redskins) took him, HoF... book it...

[BigMike619]

I have no love for Q, but Campbell has shown little at this point...

I actually like the kid although I think he was taken a bit early, but that is classic Redskin logic; If we (Redskins) took him, HoF... book it...

OOR!!

Its like Cowpuke logic:

No matter how many drugs he's done or how bad his moral character is, if he can help us win games we'll sign him ;) .

[trickblue]

OOR!!

Its like Cowpuke logic:

No matter how many drugs he's done or how bad his moral character is, if he can help us win games we'll sign him ;) .

Wow... you derived that from my post? Impressive if not idiotic...

I was among the early detractors of the Q... I had some inside info that made me feel the way I did. It ended up being true and sad in that respect...

I certainly didn't will him bad, as I didn't will Dexter Manley bad...

Players have issues and you hope they overcome them...

That is all you can do...

Now... if you wish to debate your team's moral character vs. ours, I am OK with that... (Hint... it will be a virtual wash)...

[BigMike619]

Wow... you derived that from my post? Impressive if not idiotic...

I was among the early detractors of the Q... I had some inside info that made me feel the way I did. It ended up being true and sad in that respect...

I certainly didn't will him bad, as I didn't will Dexter Manley bad...

Players have issues and you hope they overcome them...

That is all you can do...

Now... if you wish to debate your team's moral character vs. ours, I am OK with that... (Hint... it will be a virtual wash)...

You do whatever you want with your "idiotic" posts. I dont need to compare anything with you. I have already shown you where I can fight fire with fire. So if you want to continue in this, be my guest.

edit: I never wished Quincy/Tank/Irvin or anyone else ill will. But I know Cowpuke logic when I see it.

[trickblue]

You do whatever you want with your "idiotic" posts. I dont need to compare anything with you. I have already shown you where I can fight fire with fire. So if you want to continue in this, be my guest.

edit: I never wished Quincy/Tank/Irvin or anyone else ill will. But I know Cowpuke logic when I see it.

Ouch... you hurt me here...

Your "fire with fire" damaged me more than I can say...

I guess I can move forward with being your guest...

Try not to hurt me TOO bad, sir. Take your best shot... I assure you I can take it...

[BigMike619]

Im glad we got this settled. Be sure to come back now ya'hear?

[trickblue]

Im glad we got this settled. Be sure to come back now ya'hear?

ummm... I'm still waiting on "The Fire" you promised to inflict on me...

PLEASE don't tell me I wasted money on this:

http://www.fireweld.com.sg/Safety/Bristol/Suit3.jpg

I want the fire... go...

[BigMike619]

you did waste your money. and now you are wasting my time. typical puke fan move though. jibba jabba and offering nothing.

[trickblue]

you did waste your money. and now you are wasting my time. typical puke fan move though. jibba jabba and offering nothing.

Oh c'mon BigMike...

How am I wasting your time?

I was a Cowboy fan before you were born, but yet I am not on your level and not worth your time?

This hurts me, Mike... it really does...

[BigMike619]

Oh c'mon BigMike...

How am I wasting your time?

I was a Cowboy fan before you were born, but yet I am not on your level and not worth your time?

This hurts me, Mike... it really does...

Im sorry...I did not mean to hurt your feelings.

I actually care and dont want you to get the wrong impression of me.























April Fools!! :laugh:

[BAFGA]

Calling TR1
Is anybody home
Calling TR1
Im here all alone
Did he leave the building
Or can he come to the phone
Calling TR1
Im here all alone

Well tell him I was calling just to wish him well
Let me leave my number
Heartbreak hotel
Oh love me tender
Baby dont be cruel
Return to sender
Treat me like a fool

Calling TR1
Is anybody home
Calling TR1
Im here all alone
Did he leave the building
Can he come to the phone
Calling TR1
Im here all alone

Why dont you go get him
Im his biggest fan
You gotta tell him
Hes still the man
Long distance baby
So far from home
Dont you think maybe you could put him on

Well tell him I was calling just to wish him well
Let me leave my number
Heartbreak hotel
Oh love me tender
Baby dont be cruel
Return to sender
Treat me like a fool

Calling TR1
Is anybody home
Calling TR1
Im here all alone
Did he leave the building
Or can he come to the phone
Calling TR1
Im here all alone

©Mark Knopfler :D

[BigMike619]

that was so freakin funny. I was singing it to those lyrics as I read it. :applause: