JLC: Draft Review

[TheLongshot]

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/04/draft_review.html#more

I think he does make some interesting points, but I don't think I agree with everything.


As for the draft, it will be interesting to see in years to come how these pass catchers fare compared to other players who were still on the board at pick 21 and later. Numerous teams had first-round grades on CB Mike Jenkins (with him playing Dallas it'll be easy to follow his career, for better or worse) and S Tyrell Johnson, who no doubt could have helped here. I'll keep an eye on the career of C Mike Pollak as well, a player the Skins were high on. He went to the Colts at pick 59.

The Redskins claim that their rating on Kelly was so high at 51, that he stood out to such a degree, that it was the most obvious thing ever. Now, the Colts front office is about as good as it gets. They already have a stud Pro Bowl C, Jeff Saturday, but he's aging, and their best WR, Marvin Harrison might be done. The Skins have a great center, Casey Rabach, but their entire line is on the wrong side of 30 and they have nothing close to a proven back-up center on the roster.

Maybe the Colts reached on Pollak, and no team is close to perfect, no one hits on all their picks and to expect any team to is crazy. Maybe time will tell that the Colts blew it, and Davis and Kelly are two of the best players to come out of his second round.

It will be interesting to see how that comes down, but it is pretty obvious that they really liked Kelly. Certainly Campbell and Zorn gave the thumbs up for those picks. But, you can question that maybe going another position could have been smart. At least JLC isn't trying to justify a DL, which might have been tapped out at that point.

While I understand the need for a backup center, at the same time it is also the youngest position on the line. Also, Indy, while the drafted a lot of centers, they were looking to move them to guard. I have a feeling that we will be looking in the FA pile yet again for a backup center, and that's fine because Rabach is probably going to be here for a long while yet.

He talks in there that maybe Zorn should have taken extra mini-camp days. Course, the fact that Zorn is already pressed for time (and some of that was due to the unexpected retirement announcement of Gibbs and some of it from Snyder doing his due-dilligence.), I don't see how it would have helped THAT much. I mean, he did have tape of what these players were doing before and that might have been enough.

That being said, the extra mini-camp days didn't really seem to help Gibbs all that much in 2004, because the offense looked like a mess for most of the season. It also didn't help him recognise Betts as a valuable running back.

I do think it is good to question what we did in the second round. At the same time, tho, you don't always find what you want in the draft. As much as some here like to think of it as a cure-all, you are often under the whims of luck and what happens to drop to you. In the end, the best you can hope for is to pick the best players and hope it all works out for you.

Jason

[Fred Jones]

I have to admit that he does offer some fair alternatives. Time, of course, will tell. I would like to think that the team was targeting Merling with the 3rd pick in the second round. When Merling was taken two spots ahead by the Tuna, and Thomas was available they selected him.
The Pollack availability was interesting. I wonder how the skins graded him out. I agree with JLC that the Colts can draft.

[DCsportsfan53]

He's definitely reaching on most of his points.

[Temple]

JLC questioning the Skins' Draft moves? ... I'm shocked!

First off: I'm a MASSIVE homer and I love the versatility and depth that Thomas, Davis, and Kelly bring to our offense, but even I don't think it's too out of line to question drafting basically 3 pass-catchers when the team had so many other needs (DL/OL/CB/S)...

[ouvan59]

I have to admit that he does offer some fair alternatives. Time, of course, will tell. I would like to think that the team was targeting Merling with the 3rd pick in the second round. When Merling was taken two spots ahead by the Tuna, and Thomas was available they selected him.
The Pollack availability was interesting. I wonder how the skins graded him out. I agree with JLC that the Colts can draft.

He's offering alternatives with no consequences. He'll only bring these guys up if they turn out better. But in the end he is doing no different than the rest of us. We like to compare the alternatives to the picks we've made down the road (Mike Williams, Kellen Winslow, etc.)

[Smoot Point Really]

Since most publications are giving us anywhere from a B- to an A, I wonder what publications JLC is reading...

Anyway, we may have reached on some WRs... Big deal... Under Gibbs, the last 64 regular season games our top 3 TD producing WRs have totaled 31 TDs... Chris Cooley alone has 27 TDs over the same time period. Go figure...

[fansince62]

Since most publications are giving us anywhere from a B- to an A, I wonder what publications JLC is reading...

Anyway, we may have reached on some WRs... Big deal... Under Gibbs, the last 64 regular season games our top 3 TD producing WRs have totaled 31 TDs... Chris Cooley alone has 27 TDs over the same time period. Go figure...

well...that's 31 more touchdowns than Thomas, Kelley and Davis have achieved in the NFL. Neither the detractors or supporters know at this point.

[TheLongshot]

I have to admit that he does offer some fair alternatives. Time, of course, will tell. I would like to think that the team was targeting Merling with the 3rd pick in the second round. When Merling was taken two spots ahead by the Tuna, and Thomas was available they selected him.

Except that Vinny pretty much said that Thomas was going to be the pick back at #21. Considering that they weren't even expecting him to drop that far, that's a no-brainer.


Anyway, we may have reached on some WRs... Big deal... Under Gibbs, the last 64 regular season games our top 3 TD producing WRs have totaled 31 TDs... Chris Cooley alone has 27 TDs over the same time period. Go figure...

Well, except that even if you use JLC's ratings, we didn't really reach on Kelly, since he suggested that other teams had a late 2nd round grade on him, which is where he was selected.

Vinny, tho, said that they had a first round grade on him. It isn't unusual at all for teams to have ratings out of whack with general consensus. I mean, look at the WR the Rams drafted before us, who was rated well below the top receivers in the draft.

Also, I don't think that it is right to suggest that just because the Redskins didn't pick Pollack that Indy may have reached for him. It might very well be that they both rated him the same, but the Skins had players rated higher on their board and the Colts didn't. Hell, for all we know, the Colts could have had Kelly rated higher than Pollack and they would have selected him.

Jason

[moviedude25]

JLC refuses to accept that our problems last year were:

1. The Defense couldn't get off the feild because our Offense would go 3 and out constantly
2. Upgrading the Offense will help the Defense as we will score more, give them more rest, etc.

Our offense needed an upgrade and I love that we drafted two of the top 3 studs availible in this class. Sure we could have used another DLineman but this helps our Defense alot.

[TheLongshot]

JLC refuses to accept that our problems last year were:

1. The Defense couldn't get off the feild because our Offense would go 3 and out constantly
2. Upgrading the Offense will help the Defense as we will score more, give them more rest, etc.

Our offense needed an upgrade and I love that we drafted two of the top 3 studs availible in this class. Sure we could have used another DLineman but this helps our Defense alot.

Well, at the same time, he does have a point that we didn't do much to upgrade the oldest parts of our defense (which are the DL and LB).

I do agree with you, tho, that an improved offense is going to help out the defense a lot. Also, getting a punter that can back up the opponent is also going to help the defense.

Jason

[Hooper]

I like the offensive weapons we drafted, but think we drafted a fantasy lineup, not a football lineup. Merling and Kelly would have been preferable IMO.

Time and time again, we don't do what good teams do -- build from the trenches. I thought it was very interesting what Gregg Williams did in Jax -- he spent his first two picks on defensive ends, something Cerrato used to say Williams thought weren't all that important in his defense. Sounds like Gregg was being a good soldier.

[Spear]

His logic is pretty baffling to me. He's implying that the Colts passed on Kelly in favor of a center, when they picked 8 spots after us. It seems to me that they didn't have a choice.

And Jenkins? Were we supposed to sit at 21 and take him? I just don't understand why he'd even bring him up as "one that got away."

[Robbnva]

Can somebody tell me has a team ever drafted 2 top WRs in the first day? I see 2 guys who have the potential to be great and I can't recall when 2 first round quality WRs went to the same team.

[fansince62]

Well, at the same time, he does have a point that we didn't do much to upgrade the oldest parts of our defense (which are the DL and LB).

I do agree with you, tho, that an improved offense is going to help out the defense a lot. Also, getting a punter that can back up the opponent is also going to help the defense.

Jason


jason..pardon me for being dissenting......but trailing back to the Seattle game....I did not see them practicing the 3 yards and a cloud of wideout dust so many claim is the core technique of that system. In fact, I saw a lot of long passes being completed against our heros. what if the offense is so good it actually puts the defense on the field more (independent of scoring)...not less?

[jimster]

I thought Buges has already said he wants to try Rinehart at Center. He's already played T and G in college. I trust Buges sees something in this guy, which is why we drafted him.

[KCJDLJ]

The Redskins had the 8th ranked defense in the NFL last year, even after that debacle in NE. Even after losing one of the best FS in football. Even after losing a good young starting corner. Even after losing a promising young LB who was having a great season. I'm not that worried about the defense. The offense needed wholesale changes and that's just what we got. New offense and new pieces to make it run efficiently. Hopefully we won't have to wait half the season to get a TD from a WR. Hopefully Cooley and Moss won't be double teamed this year. Hopefully the Redskins will have more options in the red zone than throwing the ball out of the end zone or a failed running attempt off the left side by Betts. If the team hadn't brought in some receivers I would be angry. This was a GREAT draft conceptionaly. I'm confident that both of these receivers are an upgrade over any of the FA we didn't sign in the off season. If one of the new receivers has a productive year this offense will be greatly improved. I'm excited to see what the West Coast on the Potomac looks like this season.

[Smoot Point Really]

well...that's 31 more touchdowns than Thomas, Kelley and Davis have achieved in the NFL. Neither the detractors or supporters know at this point.

Uh... Thomas, Kelly and Davis have 0 games played... Those 31 TDs came over 4 years of regular season games. I believe this provides us the justification for "REACHING" on 3 pass-catchers in the 2ND ROUND. Can it really be called reaching if you grab in the 2nd round arguably the best WR, the best TE and a solid WR that most teams have graded as a late 2nd/early 3rd?

[The Dude]

Since most publications are giving us anywhere from a B- to an A, I wonder what publications JLC is reading...

It's interesting how some on this site are quick to discount the media when they criticize the Skins, but have embraced the large amount of positive draft reviews from these same sources. The "mediots" seem to only have credibility when the poster agrees with the article.

Not picking on you Smoot, just using your words as a general example.

[Smoot Point Really]

Can somebody tell me has a team ever drafted 2 top WRs in the first day? I see 2 guys who have the potential to be great and I can't recall when 2 first round quality WRs went to the same team.

Arizona took Bryant Johnson and Anquan Boldin in the 1st and 2nd round a few years ago...

[Dick Edds]

I think JLC actually raises some good questions, its not that our draft strategy was wrong. We took the BPA instead of reaching for positions of need.

The trouble I have understanding and agreeing with, is how Vinny and crew rated the prospects. Like i said, it's not the strategy they used, it's their ability to effectively and correctly rate all the draft prospects that needs to be looked at. At some point, need trumps BPA ... and that is usually after rounds 1 and 2.

[KCJDLJ]

jason..pardon me for being dissenting......but trailing back to the Seattle game....I did not see them practicing the 3 yards and a cloud of wideout dust so many claim is the core technique of that system. In fact, I saw a lot of long passes being completed against our heros. what if the offense is so good it actually puts the defense on the field more (independent of scoring)...not less?Flawed logic. If the offense is that good and scores so fast everytime we get the ball, ala Indy and N.E., would you really be that worried? Indy can't stop the run and N.E. has the oldest LB core in the NFL, not to mention their safteys. They continue to win games as well as divisional championships. Even a few SB. If the Redskins can score 28 pts. a game then none of us should worry too much about how many games will be lost but how to come up with the money for SB tickets.

[KCJDLJ]

I think JLC actually raises some good questions, its not that our draft strategy was wrong. We took the BPA instead of reaching for positions of need.

The trouble I have understanding and agreeing with, is how Vinny and crew rated the prospects. Like i said, it's not the strategy they used, it's their ability to effectively and correctly rate all the draft prospects that needs to be looked at. At some point, need trumps BPA ... and that is usually after rounds 1 and 2. According to everything I've read, most everyone had the players we chose in the 2nd round valued higher than they were chosen. The FO seems to have valued the players the same as others so I guess that just makes everyone wrong. :D

[Smoot Point Really]

It's interesting how some on this site are quick to discount the media when they criticize the Skins, but have embraced the large amount of positive draft reviews from these same sources. The "mediots" seem to only have credibility when the poster agrees with the article.

Not picking on you Smoot, just using your words as a general example.

This wasn't a comment about the media, it was regarding JLC (if you read his article) and his reference to "criticism". I haven't heard much negativity that he seems to have encountered or is "fabricating". Maybe the "SportsJunkies" are one of his sources. Have you? I know you weren't picking on me, but I may have miscommunicated what I was trying to say.

[Storm]

After thomas was picked the next 2 picks were baffling because of how the skins justified them. BPA. But if the BPA is kelly who is going to be 4th or 5th on the depth chart and hardly playing, it just makes more sence too draft the Second best player available (SBPA?) who fills a need and is more likely to contribute--for example at DE where we're old or at CB where we're injured. In the second round the drop off isnt all that much.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

1. The Defense couldn't get off the feild because our Offense would go 3 and out constantly
2. Upgrading the Offense will help the Defense as we will score more, give them more rest, etc.

The problem is that these three guys are not going to change either of those issues. Until we actually get an NFL caliber Quaterback in here, we could have the Hogs up front, Rice, Monk, and Clark at the WR spots, Kellen Winslow Sr at TE, and Gayle Sayers in the backfield and the offense is still going to fail.

[Sonny Joe Hog]

JLC wrote:

"Inside the building, coaches were fretting that upper management was pushing grades higher on players like Malcolm Kelly, inflating their worth as the draft approaches, while Kelly was dropping down other boards. Teams I spoke to before the draft had him rated in the lower half of the second round, and no one seems shocked he was still on the board at 51. The Redskins kept coming up with high grades on this slumping receiver class, thus ensuring a self-fulfilling prophecy: If you simply follow the board, and the draft plays out as expected, and you sit there with a bunch of second round picks, of course you're going to have wide receivers "sticking out like a sore thumb."

If the deck is stacked towards receivers, and that's what the owner is most enamored with - those are the players he keeps swinging and missing on in the trade front - well, how do you think the draft going to unfold?"

Here we go, again, with another JLC Redskins conspiracy theory! Now JLC believes that Vinny actually inflated the grades of the WR's that Dan Snyder liked. So, according to JLC, the players the Skins drafted in the Second Round were determined by a fudge factor inserted by Vinny in order for Vinny to suck up to Dan Snyder. That is preposterous!

If JLC spoke to any Redskins coach or scout who actually said that was the case, as he claims, the person who said that should do the honorable thing and resign. To spread that kind of internal gossip outside of the organization is harmful and disloyal, even if it is true.

The reality is that bosses get to make decisions and employees don't always like the decisions the bosses make. But the way those decisions are made is an internal matter that should not be shared with reporters in an attempt to embarrass the decision- makers.

Besides, which players to draft is a matter of opinion. If he had tried to do so, JLC could have found just as many NFL people who approved of the Redskins picks as he found who disapproved of those picks.

JLC chose to believe what he wanted to believe so he could use the whiny comments someone supposedly made to him in yet another of his petty, negative articles about Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

The Redskins had the 8th ranked defense in the NFL last year, even after that debacle in NE. Even after losing one of the best FS in football. Even after losing a good young starting corner. Even after losing a promising young LB who was having a great season. I'm not that worried about the defense.

And we had Gregg Williams running that defense who has made a career of making chicken salad out of, well, you know.

The Titans had the #1 defense in the league with Williams in 2000. In 2001, they dropped to 25.

[Walking Deadman]

Hard to tell what will happen with this draft.

But the Skins actually used their picks they went with their strategy and stuck to it.

And they addressed 1 need that has needed to be addressed for some time.

I get what JLC is saying and I agree partly b/c I also come from the school that you need to have strength in the trenches and then address the skill positions and you can argue that depth and future starters in OL and DL is lacking.

I also think any chance JLC can slam the Redskins, he finds ways to do so. Maybe he's just being a journalist, maybe he's biased (I lean more to this).

[pjfootballer]

I'm for protecting the passer and I thought trading with the Rams was stupid because the next pick was Roy Scheuning, a 3rd round prospect in the 5th round would have given us two 3rd round linemen at a 3rd and 5th price. But what JLC doesn't realize is, the Colts just took Anthony Gonzalez last year to eventually replace Harrison and the Colts always draft OL to protect Manning.

But before he hails them, he has to realize that not only did they get 3 Offensive Linemen, but all of them are CENTERS. Which means 1 will take over for Saturday in a few years and the others have to learn to play guard.

[TheLongshot]

jason..pardon me for being dissenting......but trailing back to the Seattle game....I did not see them practicing the 3 yards and a cloud of wideout dust so many claim is the core technique of that system. In fact, I saw a lot of long passes being completed against our heros. what if the offense is so good it actually puts the defense on the field more (independent of scoring)...not less?

I think we may agree more than we disagree on this point. I do think that one of the big factors that we probably needed to improve on is the consistancy of our pass rush. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like personnel improvements is going to improve that.

But, I defy you to actually watch the game and tell me the offense was "so good". Fact is, Collins was getting creamed and we weren't able to open any holes for Portis. Some of that will probably improve with the return of Thomas and Jansen and the increased experience of Heyer with a full offseason with the team. It will definitely improve with the variety of offensive options out there.

Jason

[Heisenberg]

The problem is that these three guys are not going to change either of those issues. Until we actually get an NFL caliber Quaterback in here, we could have the Hogs up front, Rice, Monk, and Clark at the WR spots, Kellen Winslow Sr at TE, and Gayle Sayers in the backfield and the offense is still going to fail.




:rolleyes:






:doh:

[SonnyJ]

I think any C that can do a shotgun snap, learn the line calls and audibles, and perform at a level above a speed bump will be effective in Indy while P. Manning is QB.

JLC seems to be anxious to say "AHA!!!" on these picks. Guess what? I would be shocked if the Redskins got whatever player that will eventually turn out to be the best pro at each of their picks. Indy probably didn't either. Nor did NE. In all likelihood, there will be a guy that winds up having a better career than the guy that they picked. These guys doing the drafting wouldn't last long if that was the standard that they held themselves to, because they would inevitably be a failure at doing so.

Just get guys you think can be productive players for the team you're drafting for. If they are, you've done your job. If by the grace of God that player turns out to be the best (or one of), then you're a lucky SOB.

[bedlamVR]

JLC hasn't said anything interesting in months ... I know I should know better but I read this expecting an objective breakdown especially of the later players chosen and I was yet again disapointed . I know he will appeal to some ...



Originally Posted by The Dude
It's interesting how some on this site are quick to discount the media when they criticize the Skins, but have embraced the large amount of positive draft reviews from these same sources. The "mediots" seem to only have credibility when the poster agrees with the article.



...but there comes a point where criticism stops to become constructive and is just endless spite . Does anyone from the Redskins actually still talk to him anymore.... ?
...Jason made a comment about the Colts FO being the gold standard when it comes to drafting .. fair enough they are good but not infallible. He applauded the selection of a C in the second round ( a position viewed as many as the easiest position to fill because they just need to be smart ... less than stellar athletes can succeed at the position because they will always be helped ... )... but that second round pick will be nothing but depth and unless they want to be 4 deep at center two of their other picks are kind of wasted .....

[Area51]

JLC would've **** on our draft no matter who we would've picked. The guy hates the Redskins with a passion. Malcolm Kelly was ranked as a first round prospect and the best receiver until his workout. Some scouts may have dropped his grade to lower second, but that is where we picked him.

I don't mind picking up two of the top 3 receivers(who could've very easily, and the case for Devin Thomas, should've been a first rounder). Our defense played good/great in almost all of the first half of games this year. It was in the second half, when we would not be able to move the ball that our D would be out on the field for too long and cause us to lose.

With all these weapons, our offense can be set at the receiver/TE position for years and in the next two drafts all we have to worry about is our OL and front seven. People seem to forget that we had a top 5 OL in '06 and struggled because we lost 2 of our 4 best linemen, including Randy Thomas for the entire year. I don't care what team you are, if you lose 2 of your starting linemen(especially an elite OL like Thomas and really good run blocker in Jansen) to injuries for the entire year, your offense will struggle.

[ashsra]

I've got no problem with fair criticism, and I still think the Fred Davis choice was pretty purplexing, but reading JLC's article you'd think we got a draft grade of D. It's just funny to hear LaConfora talk as if he is some kind of draft expert, like if he was running the Skins war room we'd already have a Super Bowl. Of course I'm sure he thought the Ravens had the greatest draft in world, even though they still have a poor offense with no WRs. I just get tired of the constant pessimism.

[skinsince72]

JLC is putting all his stock in "why didn't they draft at need". Well, we did. We lost several games last year because we could not hold onto a lead. We got 3 1st round rated players in the 2nd round.


I admit, I was jumping on the DE/DT bandwagon with everyone else. Now that I look back, we ranked 8th in D last year. We were enamored w/ NY's pass rush in the playoffs and wanted the same. Our need is at not only one WR position, but 2. Especially in the WCO.

[Voice_of_Reason]

The Washington Post and the 'Skins have a bit of a tiff going at the moment. Unfortunately for the Post, the way the 'Skins are "solving" this problem is to just lock them out. Sure they're allowed into the media room, and get a copy of the press releases, but all of the "inside sources" that other beat reports have don't exist.

JLC was going to trash the 'Skins no matter what. This is Christmas come early for him, because with the draft, there's always another option. So no matter what they did, he was going to have another option.

The 'Skins had a bunch of needs: WR, OL, CB, S, DT, LB, DE. According to what I heard Vinny say, basically in that order. 1) No WR caught a TD until week 10. 2) Look at the OL injuries. 3) They need depth at Safety. 4) They got 1.5 sacks from their DT. 4) LBs are getting old. 5) DE are getting old.

Vinny also said they were going to draft a QB late in the draft, and VOILA! They did. Frosty was inconsistent, they used a 6th rounder on the best punter available.

They got 2 good WRs to address depth and size. They got a swing OL in the 4th. They got a CB in the 5th.

They addressed a lot of needs, but couldn't get to all of them in one draft. Shrug. I like the new way of doing things, and if they do it for the next couple of years, damn, the team is going to be good.

[ncr2h]

This isn't him trashing the skins. 99% of our fanbase finds it odd that we took 2 WRs and a TE. You even have homers on here claiming that backup TE was a need for us. The fact is, JLC thought something was weird about our draft and came up with a theory about what happened. Then he did a marginal amount of fact checking and didn't find any glaring discrepancies. It's interesting food for thought, and I could definitely see it being true, although I hope it is not.

[Whiskeypeet]

I've got no problem with fair criticism, and I still think the Fred Davis choice was pretty purplexing, but reading JLC's article you'd think we got a draft grade of D. It's just funny to hear LaConfora talk as if he is some kind of draft expert, like if he was running the Skins war room we'd already have a Super Bowl. Of course I'm sure he thought the Ravens had the greatest draft in world, even though they still have a poor offense with no WRs. I just get tired of the constant pessimism.

I think this criticism is fair here and I usually can't stand his garbage.

Specifically given the long term history of the Snyder era, and his recent efforts to land a WR, you have to wonder if the deck is stacked on draft day. You also have to wonder if its stacked in FA as well.

Snyder's FO like skill positions. And to be honest I think they truly were drafting BPA per their draft board. I just don't think they evaluate with an open mind and its been this way since Snyder bought the team.

Finally, I hate to criticize when the team is drafting BPA because I think its the way a team needs to draft. I'm simply not of the opinion that the team's board was set anywhere close to BPA.